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patriotz
patriotz
13 years ago

However you (or these people) are living here, creating housing demand, and yet complaining and wondering why anybody lives here.Nobody's wondering why anyone lives here – it's for the same reasons as anywhere else (jobs, etc.). What we are wondering about is why people are paying prices for housing that are way, way out of line with the economic yield of those assets. I don't see anyone wondering why people pay current market rents.

Reknab
Reknab
13 years ago

Sure…Conventional lending is when the borrower puts down the traditional dpwn payment amount of 25% and the bank lends the balance, hence the loan would be at 75% LTV. Loan being the amount of mortgage and value the purchase price/appraised value.LTV's higher than 75% are considerded high ration and must be insured as per law (by cmhc/ge etc). Generally a rental property must be have LTV of 75% or less, and generally high ratio mortgages must be "owner occupied".This may may allow investors/specualtors to get into a rental/inv. property with less down than currently is required.

Jesse
Jesse
13 years ago

LTV=The balance of the mortgage outstanding as a percentage of the home's price. Reknab can provide specifics on what is meant by "conventional lending."

digi
digi
13 years ago

Reknab – what is LTV?

Reknab
Reknab
13 years ago

I was told today that legislation could be in process that will raise conventional lending LTV from 75% to 80%.

Warren
Warren
13 years ago

betamax:1. What is it about our clean water, relatively safe streets, social safety net, and rule of law that makes us a "backwater"?Nothing, because those criteria have nothing to do with how the term was used. When I hear "backwater", I think banjo playing, no sock wearing. If you mean "non-cosmopolitan", that's a fair comment in some ways, although for its size, I think Vancouver offers a pretty good lifestyle.They have all kinds of reasons for being here. My point is that our 'most livable city' ratings aren't necessarily one of them.Demand is still demand. I'm not saying Vancouver deserves its high "livable city" rating. The decision is so personal its not worth making.However you (or these people) are living here, creating housing demand, and yet complaining and wondering why anybody lives here. Can you see the sillyness of it?

Jesse
Jesse
13 years ago

"i've noticed that almost everything else that goes up for sale in the south granville area is selling fast"This seems reasonable as supply is still very tight on Westside.

patriotz
patriotz
13 years ago

Oh, yes, and3. Lack of cultural bias towards ownership among francophones. They're not the whole population of Montreal of course, but more than enough to affect the whole market.

patriotz
patriotz
13 years ago

My impression is that rent (Montreal) is similar to Vancouver, but purchase price is A LOT lower. Can anyone give me any insight to this?1. No expectation of future price increases – indeed fear of declines (political uncertainty, essentially zero population growth).2. Much higher property taxes than Vancouver (makes cost of owning higher than it would appear).Quebec also has much higher income taxes than BC, but this would impact both owners and renters.

Ulsterman
Ulsterman
13 years ago

I walked past the regular open house being held at Crystal Court, the ugly-as-sin development on the NW corner of Fir & 14th. The 4+ 'character' houses that were renovated are still unoccupied and i'm sure they've been finished for 4-6 months. I've seen several open houses with the withered and deflated balloons hanging limp outside.The ugly 12 storey building that was shoe-horned into the back area of the lot also appears almost empty, months after the builders left.As i walked past the houses with my kid, i took some pleasure in mentioning loud enough for the couple entering the open house that "yes, they've been on the market for months now. They can't seem to sell them." It was interesting to look back a few seconds later to see the couple head to head and the guy pointing at… Read more »

markx
markx
13 years ago

The sales pace seem to pick up from anecdotal experience. Not much to report in as aspect, as many posters have reported similar observations. I'm in the process of moving to surrey to be closer to my job, and rents there seem to be similar to rents in Burnaby. It could be just an illusion, but are we hitting an affordability wall in rents? There seem to be a bit of price compression concerning rents in Surrey and Burnaby. Granted, they are nowhere near Vancouver rents. I guess the new jobs in Surrey does provide support for rent increases, as reverse commute is getting pretty bad these days. I plan to move to Montreal in the fall, and went apartment hunting online a while ago. My impression is that rent is similar to Vancouver, but purchase price is A LOT… Read more »

bakakuse
bakakuse
13 years ago

I was bored to tears today at about 2 so the wife and I decided to go out and look at open houses on a lark.Well, when we got to the first one we noticed about 20 shoes outside and walked in. 400K was the asking price for a unit similar to mine, except it had an extra bathroom (i rent for 800). You can't judge a book by its cover but noone looked very bright except the realtor. The next place was 650, 4 bedrooms tear down status. This place was packed too. If this place sells I'm going to start a company selling time shares in Whalley.

tulip-Mania2
tulip-Mania2
13 years ago

I can’t see how a few criminals with big bucks can have a far reaching and long lasting effect. They can’t possibly be the fools engaging in bidding wars for hovels in Grandiew or Strathacona. I think the thousands of super rich jet set buying up Vancouver nonsense is as solid of an argument as the mountains, the Olympics and Lulu Lemon.The biggest con artists selling the real estate scam are Vancouverites themselves.A quick scan through Realtylink’s stats shows sales have been on the decline for 11 months, yet the general public’s perception is that the market is white hot.The farce is so seared into the hollow heads of Vancouverites that even when the realtor’s own hype machine is telling them the market is poised for a serous crash,they still choose not to see it.This emperor is naked.Tick Tock, Tick… Read more »

betamax
betamax
13 years ago

1. What is it about our clean water, relatively safe streets, social safety net, and rule of law that makes us a "backwater"?Nothing, because those criteria have nothing to do with how the term was used. 2. China and Thailand are still 3rd world status, sorry.As Freako suggests above, not all Asians are peasants riding bicycles, despite those 1960's National Geographic films. Shanghai popn. = 20m, Beijing 15m, and there are many other cities with many millions of people. 3. Why are all of these people here if its not where they want to be? Obviously they had a choice.They have all kinds of reasons for being here. My point is that our 'most livable city' ratings aren't necessarily one of them. 4. I'm sure the type of cities they want to be in don't rank too high on any… Read more »

Freako
Freako
13 years ago

"2. China and Thailand are still 3rd world status, sorry."I think the intended comparison was Shanghai or similar, which is truly modern in many ways. To a cosmopolitan Shanghainese, it would probably be a backwater (just as it would be for a Manhattan hipster). However, for former resident of a dirty Chinese industrial town, it could be the term "paradise" would fit better than "backwater".As for the article, it originally ran in the Washington Post a week or so ago and was all about Vancouver as a refuge for wealthy fugitives due to onerous extradition laws.Obviously Vancouver is attractive to some, because people come here.

Warren
Warren
13 years ago

From my perspective, it's a backwater."Many Chinese coming from large cities have a similar perception.As much as we like to tout 'liveable city' poll results, a lot people don't give a crap about that. They want to make money and they want a vibrant downtown culture to spend it in. Vancouver is nowhere near the top of their 'best city' list.I have a few problems with this way of thinking:1. What is it about our clean water, relatively safe streets, social safety net, and rule of law that makes us a "backwater"?2. China and Thailand are still 3rd world status, sorry.3. Why are all of these people here if its not where they want to be? Obviously they had a choice.4. I'm sure the type of cities they want to be in don't rank too high on any "livable" lists.

betamax
betamax
13 years ago

From my perspective, it's a backwater."Many Chinese coming from large cities have a similar perception. As much as we like to tout 'liveable city' poll results, a lot people don't give a crap about that. They want to make money and they want a vibrant downtown culture to spend it in. Vancouver is nowhere near the top of their 'best city' list.

Reknab
Reknab
13 years ago

Just an interesting observation, I work for a big bank's western mortgage approval center and over the past year or so I have noticed 6-7 out of 10 deals are from Alberta. In the past it seemed it was BC/Vancouver that had this proportion. Of course this anecdotal info, and mainly my observation. It seems to me their market is more "hot" than ours now when in the recent past it was us.

Drachen
Drachen
13 years ago

Isn't being a "backwater" for criminal and pseudo-criminal "entrepreneurs" a good thing?

bcubbins
bcubbins
13 years ago

Great quote in yesterday's Sun…what do those rich foreigners really think of Vancouver?Fugitive financier Rakesh Saxena, under house arrest in Vancouver while fighting extradition to Thailand, says "With due respect, [Canada] is not the place I would choose to live. From my perspective, it's a backwater." But all things considered, he said, "I think I made the right choice."

Drachen
Drachen
13 years ago

the one playing the music and the one guarding the door.And both of them bear a striking resemblance to our good friends at Rennie Marketing….

blueskies
blueskies
13 years ago

Maybe 'musical people' would be more appropriate? good one!when the music stops everybody standing gets clobbered with a chair except for a couple of people… the one playing the music and the one guarding the door…..

exvancouverite
exvancouverite
13 years ago

"Why do I pay attention to the US market when this is a local Vancouver site? 1) We like thier money, if the subprime meltdown ends up having a bigger impact on the US economy we'll feel it.2) I dont live in a world where Vancouver real estate is my only option, I like to keep an eye on the alternatives."Thanks, Pope. That needed to be said. I laughed and coughed beer out my nose … wait a minute, that felt good.But, thanks again. As you pointed out – we do have alternatives. Lots of them.

Freako
Freako
13 years ago

"Of course that's not because the borrowers would become savers. The borrowers would just have to quit borrowing due to lack of net worth. The people who had been saving all along would account for the aggregate net positive savings."True enough, but I'd expect a shift across the spectrum. 70% of households do own real estate, and I'd expect even the most miserly saver to be at least marginally influenced by the wealth effect. If so, I would expect it to work the same in reverse, perhaps assymetrically so. A miser would likely be very aware of his/her papergains. Losing these might inspire even higher savings rate in compensation.

** Ego **
** Ego **
13 years ago

Re: BC savings rate -7%This may not be as bad as it looks, considering that the second largest segment of our economy is related to marijuana and that money is not accounted for.