Comments on: Apartments vs. Micro condos in the west end.

By: grant

grant — Fri, 01 Jun 2007 10:13:00 +0000

Clarke,If thinking that the people who work in a city should be able to afford reasonable accomodation in a city gives me "an entitlement" mentality, so be it.Who do you propose should subsidize your entitlement?Let's say you can afford $600/mo for rent and your idea of "reasonable accomodation" is $900/mo. Who pays the $300 different... government? landlord? Or let's say you feel entitled to not only live in "reasonable accomodation," but OWN it. Who should pick up the difference between the $600/mo mortgage payment you can afford and the $900/mo payment necessary to service the purchase loan?

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By: freako

freako — Fri, 01 Jun 2007 06:35:00 +0000

"Prices? yes they are out of whack because prices in the lower mainland are ridiculously high. Hamilton's prices are not. You are not paying for mountain views in Langley (although they are nice)."We can speculate about what prices ought to be based on comparative criteria x,y, and z. In the end, it is set by supply and demand. As always, the problem with RE demand is that it contains more than just demand for housing. If it didn't, rents would follow. It contains expectations about the future so greed and fear have an impact.TOdays prices may seem stupid, but they are what they are. There are negative externalities imposed upon those non-owners who want to live here. Nothing they can do about it unfortunately, except rail against it.In the longer run, it is impossible for a city to price itself out of the market. That is just a function of an imperfect market based on unrealistic expectations. Having said that, we are growing, though not as fast as we used to. Real prices will continue to rise over time, and the vast majority WILL be priced out of SFH in Vancouver proper. They will have to go to townhome or move further out. And that is just the way it is. Remember, 100 years ago, the West End was all SFH. I don't know exactly what went down, but I wouldn't doubt that some West End resident lamented the affordability situation.

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By: vineland

vineland — Fri, 01 Jun 2007 00:27:00 +0000

Another thing a can't figure out is what she means by:Lets compare Ancaster, Ontario to Langley, BC..PLEASE!!Prices? yes they are out of whack because prices in the lower mainland are ridiculously high. Hamilton's prices are not. You are not paying for mountain views in Langley (although they are nice). You are paying for proximity to Vancouver, the P. Ocean, the C. Mountains etc. Things that apparently cause prices to rise uncontrollably along with the Olympics. But only since 2001. I guess no one noticed the mountains before then.

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By: vineland

vineland — Fri, 01 Jun 2007 00:24:00 +0000

I think that it is wrong to assume that family housing is going to be built or planned into the downtown core of Vancouver. Do other cities have nice family housing right in their downtown core that is affordable for an average family? Did Vancouver ever have family housing in the downtown core (3-4 bedroom large apartments)? I think there are a few, but pricey. In the seventies and eighties I don't think the west end was planned for families. The burbs were affordable - I know many people who grew up in Richmond and Burnaby who can now no longer afford their neighbourhoods. This is what makes me think there is a huge problem, not overpriced townhomes in Yaletown.Yes, I know it is trendy and maybe even eco-friendly to live downtown, but it seems that most people who think no farther then the downtown aren't from the GVRD originally. Those are who are from the GVRD are willing to live in other neighbourhoods (which are equally unaffordable, but larger). If you want to raise a family in Vancouver, ask the average Lower Mainlander where they grew up. Most will say North Van, Burnaby or Richmond. A few will say the Eastside or Westside of Vancouver, and I only know one person who grew up in the west end. He moved out of there as soon as he left home.

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By: Clarke

Clarke — Thu, 31 May 2007 22:40:00 +0000

If thinking that the people who work in a city should be able to afford reasonable accomodation in a city gives me "an entitlement" mentality, so be it.

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By: beta

beta — Thu, 31 May 2007 22:21:00 +0000

Being wrong for two years doesn't demonstrate a valid argument, it demonstrates a wrong argument.So someone who called the dot.com a bubble in '97 would be wrong in '99? We all know how that turned out.

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By: freako

freako — Thu, 31 May 2007 20:34:00 +0000

"Being wrong for two years doesn't demonstrate a valid argument, it demonstrates a wrong argument. "The argument was that prices were out of line with fundamentals. That argument is indeed even stronger today. Affordability is worse. Price/rent multiple is higher.The argument was not that prices would fall imminently. It was that the market would return to fundamentals. In that sense, the market's stubborness does not make it a "wrong argument"."When reality mismatches your model, it's wise to pay attention to the existence proof... "Reality? Are you suggesting that the fundamentals modeled by VHB were not real? Au contraire, the inputs to the model are just fine. The outputs haven't been to date. That is a very temporary mismatch, unless you are going to go down the "paradigm shift" road.

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By: Midlife Traveller

Midlife Traveller — Thu, 31 May 2007 20:07:00 +0000

...that claim is even stronger today than 2 years ago...Being wrong for two years doesn't demonstrate a valid argument, it demonstrates a wrong argument. When reality mismatches your model, it's wise to pay attention to the existence proof...

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By: Midlife Traveller

Midlife Traveller — Thu, 31 May 2007 20:04:00 +0000

So the West End VS Manhattan debate rages on.It doesn't "rage" at all. Comparing an area of 23 sq. miles that includes Central Park(!) to 1 sq. mile of carefully-chosen Vancouver is self-serving curve fitting of the finest order. Taking Manhattan neighborhoods of the same size as the West End delivers at least a dozen neighborhoods where density is more than 5 times that of the West End. The peak is probably 10x - a full order of magnitude. And that's just Manhattan - same is found in Queens and the Bronx. Rinse, lather and repeat for a handful of other US cities.

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By: exvancouverite

exvancouverite — Thu, 31 May 2007 16:14:00 +0000

Tulip: you know the drill.Non illigitamus carborundum.And I agree with what you say - the bust is coming, don't know when, but it's in the mail.Tick Tock, for sure.

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