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Sam
Sam
13 years ago

In conclusion, we are a real estate city when prices are going up. But then what are we when prices are going down? Welfare state? Of course we are, you hit the nail on the head. We're a have-not province that has temporarily popped its head up due to a commodities (natural gas) boom that has nothing to do with the people or the skill of the workforce in this province. Our real economy is based on dope, mainly. Amazing that some people think there's much else going on, other than local businesses that exist by necessity but couldn't compete anywhere else (except restaurants, possibly). And our dope is great. I'm proud of that, seriously – I smoke a bit of dope like any other genuine raised-in-BC dude.

Warren
Warren
13 years ago

Unfortunately, the finer points of this pushed aside by self-serving arguments for protectionism and third world rights. What other topic can bring the nationalistic right, unions and anti-poverty activists to have a common goal?Don't get me started on "anti-poverty activitists" who "know what's best for poor countries".In the US, I'm afraid this type of free trade will take a step backwards in the inevitable recession to come. It will, as usual, get blamed for the economic problems.

freako
freako
13 years ago

"Friedman's "The World is Flat" makes some interesting arguments linking the global supply chain to increased standards of living, Agreed. It is a win win all around. Unfortunately, the finer points of this pushed aside by self-serving arguments for protectionism and third world rights. What other topic can bring the nationalistic right, unions and anti-poverty activists to have a common goal?"and its role in promoting world peace. The only "unstable" nations out there have completely closed economies. "That is exaclty what I was getting at last week with my pitch for Reuven Brenner's views regarding free capital markets

Warren
Warren
13 years ago

patiently,Sorry I meant "unstable" in terms of their military intentions – the North Koreas, and most of the Middle East.I think when things get tough in the US there will be a lot of talk about deportation, and not worker amnesty as there is now.

Patiently Waiting
Patiently Waiting
13 years ago

What? I didn't know the US was a closed economy?Although I am pretty gloomy about the future of many North Americans (compared to the recent past), I have more of a appreciation for some benefits of outsourcing. We'll see what happens when the economy here slows down, and people get a little more bothered about the exported jobs.

Warren
Warren
13 years ago

streel,I try not to waste my time with tulip, since he really doesn't contribute much except name-calling and overused cliches.patiently,We've had some experience outsourcing to India, with mixed results. I'm not opposed to it, but I think a lot of North American businesses jumped in too fast, and then pulled back after some unexpected consequences. Its here to stay, but I don't think its a bad thing.Friedman's "The World is Flat" makes some interesting arguments linking the global supply chain to increased standards of living, and its role in promoting world peace. The only "unstable" nations out there have completely closed economies.

Patiently Waiting
Patiently Waiting
13 years ago

I work for a "small" BC business that outsources. I tell the techs in India what to do even though they are more skilled than I am. Heh.

Streel
Streel
13 years ago

"I would fear for my safety if it were not for the anonymity of the net.Do you have a possible explanation for this?" I have no explanation for this. I was referring to your past post where you gave someone shit for using the phrase and asked them to refrain as it was yours."but many of your fellow bulls are repulsed by it."I am far from being a bull and am firmly in the bear camp. Doesn't all this blogging infringe on your stockpiling of can goods and ammo?

exvancouverite
exvancouverite
13 years ago

Tulip. You're cool.Illegitimi non carborundum.

tulip-Mania2
tulip-Mania2
13 years ago

Hello Streel: RE: “Tick Tock, Tick Tock”. I am not exactly sure but many of your fellow bulls are repulsed by it.Perhaps I should show some restraint and use “Tick Tock, Tick Tock”, more sparingly.I have noticed some find it so disgusting it sends them into an uncontrollable rage, so much so, that I would fear for my safety if it were not for the anonymity of the net.Do you have a possible explanation for this? Warren, our organically grown IT staff seems to be more loyal.

Warren
Warren
13 years ago

As Warren points out you can learn this at BCIT.I say you can easily learn it on the job.If you are an employer, who are you going to hire? Or, better yet, who are you going to pay more to start?

exvancouverite
exvancouverite
13 years ago

"So why does the job market in general prefer people with training as opposed to people off the street if you can easily learn stuff on the job. Would you hire someone to fix your car that was learning on the job?"There used to be a quaint system in place that was called an apprenticeship program. That was back when dinosaurs roamed the earth.Today, it's more expedient for corporations to have future slaves pay for their own applied skills. It doesn't necessarily make it better system, but one that leaves a worker heavily indebted before he even gets out of the gate.And btw, automotive technicians still have years to put in before they get journeyman status – and they do 'learn on the job'.I've met quite a few people that have been grandfathered into their present work, and they're prefectly… Read more »

exvancouverite
exvancouverite
13 years ago

"Actually, if you are a small business, and i understand there are a lot in bc, how likely would you be to outsource?"You couldn't. But you would pay a lot less to remain competitive; or die a horrible ignomious death.Just because you're small doesn't mean globalisation leaves you untouchable.

Streel
Streel
13 years ago

Tulip, Just in this thread alone you have insulted two industries, re agents (sociopaths) and IT ( goat herders) which is also a thinly veiled bigot statement. You have called Warren (who usually contributes in a postive way) a bullshitter and compared him to Aaron and made up a crap story about his fictitious East Van house. Wtf is the matter with you? Perhaps some anger management courses? I think Warren has shown exceptional restraint in not telling you where you can put your two lips, and then signing off with tick tock, tick tock to really send you over the edge.Psychology plays a big part of this scenario but there definately is a fine line between entertainment and rude.

Richard
Richard
13 years ago

"How much more difficult is it?"straight html is not very difficult, but static webpages aren't going to get you very far. You might want to consider the infrastructure, security, design, testing, and all of that. Fitting all those pieces together is what's difficult, and as is maintaining a certain degree of unity in the whole thing."Some of the people who are in IT now overseas were tending goats only 3 years ago. "Did you know very many of them? More likely three years ago they were in university. Yes, they have universities overseas."I say you can easily learn it on the job."Being good at IT is just like anything else. It takes time and practice, and a little bit of aptitude would not hurt.

RentingSucks
RentingSucks
13 years ago

Some of the people who are in IT now overseas were tending goats only 3 years ago.

OK. References for this? China and India aren’t exactly backwaters. They’ve had complete university systems and have had for quite sometime. If a person in IT was tending goats 3 years ago maybe it was his summer job.

As Warren points out you can learn this at BCIT.

I say you can easily learn it on the job.

So why does the job market in general prefer people with training as opposed to people off the street if you can easily learn stuff on the job. Would you hire someone to fix your car that was learning on the job?

Richard
Richard
13 years ago

"Maybe not. Major outsourcing of IT jobs in the US isn't a great portend for future IT job in BC. I know, it's different here."Actually, if you are a small business, and i understand there are a lot in bc, how likely would you be to outsource?

tulip-Mania2
tulip-Mania2
13 years ago

“Writing HTML websites and writing C++ or C# are very different things with very different levels of difficulty.”

How much more difficult is it?

Some of the people who are in IT now overseas were tending goats only 3 years ago.

As Warren points out you can learn this at BCIT.

I say you can easily learn it on the job.

exvancouverite
exvancouverite
13 years ago

“Warren is somewhat correct..”

Maybe not. Major outsourcing of IT jobs in the US isn’t a great portend for future IT job in BC. I know, it’s different here.

But, not that different.

freako
freako
13 years ago

"The point is that most people tend to jump in and out of the market at the wrong time. Which is why I try a long term strategy. "If the individual investors earn 3.5% and the market averages 10% why bother with long term. Just do the opposite of what the typical individual investor would do. If stocks earn 3.5% when the typical investor is in, then they must return 13.5% when he is out in order to average10%. (using lazy math and ignoring compounding).

TheVanMan
TheVanMan
13 years ago

Warren is somewhat correct..I.T is everywhere, but it depends upon who you are talking to.Salary for any experienced technical personnel in today's market starts anywhere from $44k to $55k. People with special skills these days are job shopping. Despite the demise of the tech crash, IT personnel are still in demand, but the needs have changed. What's different now is that, you don't get paid as much if you're an average joe IT. If you work for EDS or Accenture, then you could become the lowest common denominator. Like any technical job, you are paid for your unique abilities and expertise that some companies look for. The days that you have some basic I.T and computer knowledge is over. Many ex-I.T guys can do that.

TheVanMan
TheVanMan
13 years ago

Warren,If your company is looking for new hires and want experienced IT personnel, I know some! Some of them used to work for big multi-national corporations before, but when they downsized their IT departments and sub-contracted them out to EDS, they got pink slips. They are now working as sub-contractors and not making much at all. Would me nice if they can make at least $55k.Any leads?

tulip-Mania2
tulip-Mania2
13 years ago

“Can we ask what industry you are in?”Warren you know from my posts I have diagnosed the RE peddlers as “sociopaths” can I assume, from your choice of a plural pronoun that you suffer from multiple personality disorder?You say:“IT will change, but there will always be high paying jobs for the brightest minds.”I agree: as posted:“As long as there is a couple real brains on call, and can hook up remotely, the systems works with no problems.”As for what industry I work in : Remember these are your words to me:“Maybe you can stop flipping burgers and make some money.”

RentingSucks
RentingSucks
13 years ago

The IT market changes; it always does. (Doing my best Rob Chipman impression.)But realistically you have to keep yourself upstream of current technology and be adaptive. If it was just a matter of cranking out code your job would be shipped off to China before you could blink.Writing HTML websites and writing C++ or C# are very different things with very different levels of difficulty.

Warren
Warren
13 years ago

tulip,How exactly did my story change? The jobs I was referring to were the 150 or so my company has hired in the last 12 months. I started by saying University educated, but then amended that to include 2 yr diploma programs from BCIT, since we've hired a lot from there more recently. Your rambling message doesn't go anywhere except to predict the demise of something else that is currently going strong. IT is everywhere. Just the same way that the job of a COBOL programmer or "mainframe system operator" isn't in demand anymore, IT will change, but there will always be high paying jobs for the brightest minds.Can we ask what industry you are in?