Friday free-for-all
Here’s your friday free-for-all post for may 18th.
-protecting rental stock
-government gets cranky about CB developments
-bubbles easier to spot once they’ve popped
-Rennie: green is the color of money
What are you seeing out there?
Post your news, links & anectdotes here!
RSS 2.0 comments feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
May 25th, 2007 at 7:54 am
In conclusion, we are a real estate city when prices are going up. But then what are we when prices are going down? Welfare state?
Of course we are, you hit the nail on the head. We’re a have-not province that has temporarily popped its head up due to a commodities (natural gas) boom that has nothing to do with the people or the skill of the workforce in this province. Our real economy is based on dope, mainly. Amazing that some people think there’s much else going on, other than local businesses that exist by necessity but couldn’t compete anywhere else (except restaurants, possibly). And our dope is great. I’m proud of that, seriously – I smoke a bit of dope like any other genuine raised-in-BC dude.
May 25th, 2007 at 6:22 am
Unfortunately, the finer points of this pushed aside by self-serving arguments for protectionism and third world rights. What other topic can bring the nationalistic right, unions and anti-poverty activists to have a common goal?
Don’t get me started on “anti-poverty activitists” who “know what’s best for poor countries”.
In the US, I’m afraid this type of free trade will take a step backwards in the inevitable recession to come. It will, as usual, get blamed for the economic problems.
May 24th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
“Friedman’s “The World is Flat” makes some interesting arguments linking the global supply chain to increased standards of living,
Agreed. It is a win win all around. Unfortunately, the finer points of this pushed aside by self-serving arguments for protectionism and third world rights. What other topic can bring the nationalistic right, unions and anti-poverty activists to have a common goal?
“and its role in promoting world peace. The only “unstable” nations out there have completely closed economies. “
That is exaclty what I was getting at last week with my pitch for Reuven Brenner’s views regarding free capital markets
May 24th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
patiently,
Sorry I meant “unstable” in terms of their military intentions – the North Koreas, and most of the Middle East.
I think when things get tough in the US there will be a lot of talk about deportation, and not worker amnesty as there is now.
May 24th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
What? I didn’t know the US was a closed economy?
Although I am pretty gloomy about the future of many North Americans (compared to the recent past), I have more of a appreciation for some benefits of outsourcing. We’ll see what happens when the economy here slows down, and people get a little more bothered about the exported jobs.
May 24th, 2007 at 7:51 am
streel,
I try not to waste my time with tulip, since he really doesn’t contribute much except name-calling and overused cliches.
patiently,
We’ve had some experience outsourcing to India, with mixed results. I’m not opposed to it, but I think a lot of North American businesses jumped in too fast, and then pulled back after some unexpected consequences. Its here to stay, but I don’t think its a bad thing.
Friedman’s “The World is Flat” makes some interesting arguments linking the global supply chain to increased standards of living, and its role in promoting world peace. The only “unstable” nations out there have completely closed economies.
May 23rd, 2007 at 9:55 pm
I work for a “small” BC business that outsources. I tell the techs in India what to do even though they are more skilled than I am. Heh.
May 23rd, 2007 at 6:28 pm
“I would fear for my safety if it were not for the anonymity of the net.
Do you have a possible explanation for this?”
I have no explanation for this. I was referring to your past post where you gave someone shit for using the phrase and asked them to refrain as it was yours.
“but many of your fellow bulls are repulsed by it.”
I am far from being a bull and am firmly in the bear camp. Doesn’t all this blogging infringe on your stockpiling of can goods and ammo?
May 23rd, 2007 at 5:31 pm
Tulip. You’re cool.
Illegitimi non carborundum.
May 23rd, 2007 at 4:58 pm
Hello Streel: RE: “Tick Tock, Tick Tockâ€. I am not exactly sure but many of your fellow bulls are repulsed by it.
Perhaps I should show some restraint and use “Tick Tock, Tick Tockâ€, more sparingly.
I have noticed some find it so disgusting it sends them into an uncontrollable rage, so much so, that I would fear for my safety if it were not for the anonymity of the net.
Do you have a possible explanation for this?
Warren, our organically grown IT staff seems to be more loyal.
May 23rd, 2007 at 1:19 pm
As Warren points out you can learn this at BCIT.
I say you can easily learn it on the job.
If you are an employer, who are you going to hire? Or, better yet, who are you going to pay more to start?
May 23rd, 2007 at 12:28 pm
“So why does the job market in general prefer people with training as opposed to people off the street if you can easily learn stuff on the job. Would you hire someone to fix your car that was learning on the job?”
There used to be a quaint system in place that was called an apprenticeship program. That was back when dinosaurs roamed the earth.
Today, it’s more expedient for corporations to have future slaves pay for their own applied skills. It doesn’t necessarily make it better system, but one that leaves a worker heavily indebted before he even gets out of the gate.
And btw, automotive technicians still have years to put in before they get journeyman status – and they do ‘learn on the job’.
I’ve met quite a few people that have been grandfathered into their present work, and they’re prefectly competent. If they applied for the same job today, they’d never get it without the appropriate degree. It’s called credentialism. Keeps the serfs fighting over whatever crumbs are on the table.
I can see why people prefer that method of getting work done – debt rules.
May 23rd, 2007 at 12:04 pm
“Actually, if you are a small business, and i understand there are a lot in bc, how likely would you be to outsource?”
You couldn’t. But you would pay a lot less to remain competitive; or die a horrible ignomious death.
Just because you’re small doesn’t mean globalisation leaves you untouchable.
May 23rd, 2007 at 10:17 am
Tulip,
Just in this thread alone you have insulted two industries, re agents (sociopaths) and IT ( goat herders) which is also a thinly veiled bigot statement. You have called Warren (who usually contributes in a postive way) a bullshitter and compared him to Aaron and made up a crap story about his fictitious East Van house. Wtf is the matter with you? Perhaps some anger management courses?
I think Warren has shown exceptional restraint in not telling you where you can put your two lips, and then signing off with tick tock, tick tock to really send you over the edge.
Psychology plays a big part of this scenario but there definately is a fine line between entertainment and rude.
May 23rd, 2007 at 8:42 am
“How much more difficult is it?”
straight html is not very difficult, but static webpages aren’t going to get you very far. You might want to consider the infrastructure, security, design, testing, and all of that. Fitting all those pieces together is what’s difficult, and as is maintaining a certain degree of unity in the whole thing.
“Some of the people who are in IT now overseas were tending goats only 3 years ago. “
Did you know very many of them? More likely three years ago they were in university. Yes, they have universities overseas.
“I say you can easily learn it on the job.”
Being good at IT is just like anything else. It takes time and practice, and a little bit of aptitude would not hurt.
May 23rd, 2007 at 8:28 am
Some of the people who are in IT now overseas were tending goats only 3 years ago.
OK. References for this? China and India aren’t exactly backwaters. They’ve had complete university systems and have had for quite sometime. If a person in IT was tending goats 3 years ago maybe it was his summer job.
As Warren points out you can learn this at BCIT.
I say you can easily learn it on the job.
So why does the job market in general prefer people with training as opposed to people off the street if you can easily learn stuff on the job. Would you hire someone to fix your car that was learning on the job?
May 23rd, 2007 at 8:27 am
“Maybe not. Major outsourcing of IT jobs in the US isn’t a great portend for future IT job in BC. I know, it’s different here.”
Actually, if you are a small business, and i understand there are a lot in bc, how likely would you be to outsource?
May 23rd, 2007 at 7:47 am
“Writing HTML websites and writing C++ or C# are very different things with very different levels of difficulty.”
How much more difficult is it?
Some of the people who are in IT now overseas were tending goats only 3 years ago.
As Warren points out you can learn this at BCIT.
I say you can easily learn it on the job.
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:17 pm
“Warren is somewhat correct..”
Maybe not. Major outsourcing of IT jobs in the US isn’t a great portend for future IT job in BC. I know, it’s different here.
But, not that different.
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:55 pm
“The point is that most people tend to jump in and out of the market at the wrong time. Which is why I try a long term strategy.
“
If the individual investors earn 3.5% and the market averages 10% why bother with long term. Just do the opposite of what the typical individual investor would do. If stocks earn 3.5% when the typical investor is in, then they must return 13.5% when he is out in order to average10%. (using lazy math and ignoring compounding).
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:37 pm
Warren is somewhat correct..
I.T is everywhere, but it depends upon who you are talking to.
Salary for any experienced technical personnel in today’s market starts anywhere from $44k to $55k. People with special skills these days are job shopping. Despite the demise of the tech crash, IT personnel are still in demand, but the needs have changed. What’s different now is that, you don’t get paid as much if you’re an average joe IT. If you work for EDS or Accenture, then you could become the lowest common denominator. Like any technical job, you are paid for your unique abilities and expertise that some companies look for. The days that you have some basic I.T and computer knowledge is over. Many ex-I.T guys can do that.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:25 pm
Warren,
If your company is looking for new hires and want experienced IT personnel, I know some! Some of them used to work for big multi-national corporations before, but when they downsized their IT departments and sub-contracted them out to EDS, they got pink slips. They are now working as sub-contractors and not making much at all. Would me nice if they can make at least $55k.
Any leads?
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:44 pm
“Can we ask what industry you are in?â€
Warren you know from my posts I have diagnosed the RE peddlers as “sociopathsâ€
can I assume, from your choice of a plural pronoun that you suffer from multiple personality disorder?
You say:
“IT will change, but there will always be high paying jobs for the brightest minds.â€
I agree: as posted:
“As long as there is a couple real brains on call, and can hook up remotely, the systems works with no problems.â€
As for what industry I work in :
Remember these are your words to me:
“Maybe you can stop flipping burgers and make some money.â€
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:43 pm
The IT market changes; it always does. (Doing my best Rob Chipman impression.)
But realistically you have to keep yourself upstream of current technology and be adaptive. If it was just a matter of cranking out code your job would be shipped off to China before you could blink.
Writing HTML websites and writing C++ or C# are very different things with very different levels of difficulty.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:57 pm
tulip,
How exactly did my story change? The jobs I was referring to were the 150 or so my company has hired in the last 12 months. I started by saying University educated, but then amended that to include 2 yr diploma programs from BCIT, since we’ve hired a lot from there more recently.
Your rambling message doesn’t go anywhere except to predict the demise of something else that is currently going strong. IT is everywhere. Just the same way that the job of a COBOL programmer or “mainframe system operator” isn’t in demand anymore, IT will change, but there will always be high paying jobs for the brightest minds.
Can we ask what industry you are in?
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:48 pm
Warren: You changed your story in a material way. You first claimed
“These are all university educated jobs in the $55k+ range for people fresh out of school.â€
But that aside, the mystery of IT is quickly disappearing.
People can be easily trained, it’s not rocket science, the intelligence, and education level required is not like it used to be.
In my own company we often train our own. They usually go from inside sales, account receivables/payables to IT without much difficulty in the transition.
As long as there is a couple real brains on call, and can hook up remotely, the systems works with no problems.
I think the IT wages will end up much like the consumer electronics repair techs- clean jobs, but won’t pay much.
Obsolescence I think it’s called.
TICK TOCK, TICK TOCK
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:46 pm
richardGood for you. But so am I. The question is, whose experience is more typical?
Well, I prefaced my comment with “anecdotally”, since that’s my limited experience. The company I work for is expanding quickly and still has a great profit margin, I don’t really know how they compete in the local market for employees in terms of salary and other perks.
And some did tell me what they were offered, since they had similar experience to others hired, I assumed that was an average.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:49 pm
In 2000, i made $40,000/yr right out of BCIT 2-year computer systems technology program. Average for new grads at that time was around $41,500/yr.
It’s not a huge stretch to imagine that 7 years later, coming from the tech meltdown to today’s brisk tech environment, and a more specialized program than mine, wages could exceed $50,000.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:08 pm
$55K for specialized IT just out of school is about right, assuming warren wants to hire an above average candidate. There are more IT job openings than above average candidates but likely less IT job openings than all possible candidates.
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:53 am
On the salary side: The company at Kamloops that my gf works at, pay 40k a year plus company vehicle for people fresh out of a 8 month BCIT program. And the work hour is 40 hr a week, union shop, time and half for overtime. And they are having trouble getting new employees, therefore management is trying to convice the union to let them boost new hire wages without boosting senior employee pay. To be fair, it’s in Kamloops, and it’s a trade. But it’s pretty good for people who were waiting tables a year ago, and don’t have grade 12 classes needed to get into 4 year university.
I think the white collar industries are still fairly picky. The HR department of Warren’s company probably require reasonable grades(average to above average), decent english, and North American education. These requirements alone would probably mean a thin worker pool in IT.
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:59 am
“I’m speaking from experience …”
Good for you. But so am I. The question is, whose experience is more typical? Did the people you work with actually tell you how much they were offered?
“It fits with the Sun article last week “
The Sun also implies our esteemed MLAs had “no choice” but to accept a 29% pay hike, but I’m not about to swallow that hook, line, and sinker.
Not picking a fight with you, by the way. just curious.
anyway, think we’ve wandered far enough from RE…
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:56 am
maybe your company’s just too picky?
I’m speaking from experience because I have to work with these new hires. Maybe our HR department needs a better process, who knows. It fits with the Sun article last week about the largest ever number of IT jobs available in the province.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:40 am
“…but the available worker pool is thin right now”
company i worked for last year had multiple candidates for each job posting. i’m pretty sure there were multiple candidates for the job i’ve currently got as well.
maybe your company’s just too picky? maybe you want people who know version 10.x when version 8.x will do just as well?
besides, with all the people moving to BC to see the 2010 olympics, some of them have to have the qualifications you want
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:00 am
rentingsucks,
I’ve heard the same from a few people at EA. Ditto Microsoft, although the pay is better. Both are great on a resume though I’d imagine.
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:38 am
Vancouver real estate city thats true.
TOP 10 R.E.
Hong Kong, Tokyo, New York, Moscow, Seoul, London, Mumbai, Shanghai, Caracas (Venezuela) and Paris (in order of their position), according to a study by International Human Resource organisation ECA International.
Vancouver have more room in year to come.
Vancouver is real estate city found to be true.
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:29 am
I think EA pays that much for people straight out of school but there are good reasons why that isn’t as good a deal as you might think. I went through the EA grinder in the early to late 90’s and frankly although the video game industry is shiny it doesn’t leave you with much of a life.
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:02 am
Hi Jade,
The industry is roughly IT, somewhat specialized. Most of our business is done in the US. Personally I wish we weren’t hiring people right out of school, but the available worker pool is thin right now.