friday free for all!
Here’s your open-topic post for Friday July 20th. Here’s a few stories I’ve noticed this week to kick the discussion off:
- Whats that smell? City workers strike looming.
- 65,000 homeowners in BC affected by leaky condo issue?
- Young families move to the suburbs.
- New blog about bad landlords in Vancouver.
- Buyers remorse: just get over it?
- US home builder confidence plunges again in July.
- Ohio AG files suits against 10 lenders for appraisal fraud
- Fed, Lenders and Wall st. to blame for US mortgage crisis?
…everyone but the buyer it seems. What are you seeing out there? Post your news, anecdotes, links and commentary here!
RSS 2.0 comments feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
July 19th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
A tip o’ the hat to monty, tulip and digi for the links this week.
July 19th, 2007 at 9:12 pm
I for one am going to support the workers in this strike –
The possibility of ever owning a home has been ripped out of the average worker’s hands – they just want to try to get it back.
The powers that be have been capitalizing on this run-up, and I for one think it’s time to share the wealth.
Excuse me if I’m mistaken, but if we can afford to supply homeowner grants to owners of million dollar properties, then we can afford to give a city clerk a nice raise. I’d rather have my tax dollars going to the garbage man than a millionaire.
And just for the record – I know no one who works for the city – just want to start seeing some wage increases across the board.
July 20th, 2007 at 6:17 am
Blue, your heart is in the right place, but your head isn’t.
The way out of this house price spiral is for people to just say no to house prices which are out of whack with the actual value of accommodation (i.e. rents).
Employers are not responsible for this insanity, and it is not reasonable to expect them to enable employees to make an attempt at home “ownership”. People should be paid enough to rent decent accommodation.
If people just refused to buy as long as payments were out of whack with rents, the two would converge – with a lot more downside on buying than upside on renting. It’s that simple.
July 20th, 2007 at 6:26 am
blue:
I would love to see the negotiated wage settlement that raises earnings enough, so that houses become affordable for city workers. That would be what- about 1000% ?
July 20th, 2007 at 6:51 am
An entry today at Ben’s blog caught my eye – there’s a comment about the building crane being the new state bird. 20K new condos still under construction, another 23K on the market right now. “The market is as close to a depression as Miami has seen in 30 years” And the builders are still building. Well, I guess they have to keep going and hope things get better.
I believe condo absorption in Miami is something like 5K per year, so that’s an 8+year supply. Anyone know how those numbers compare to Vancouver?
And patriotz, too right – wage inflation may be one way out of this mess, but it isn’t the right way. But either way there’s going to be some pain.
July 20th, 2007 at 7:07 am
So I still haven’t received my damage deposit and its after the 15th, despite promises from ex-landlord that he would mail it.
I am now approaching the stage of righteous fury. If I don’t get my dd in the mail today, its revenge time folks!!!
I already know that City Hall doesn’t know about the suite I lived in. Also, there numerous fire safety violations and certainly some building code issues.
I would hazard a guess that Revenue Canada doesn’t know about the suite.
Of course, I’m going to apply for double back and will place a lien on the property if necessary.
Any more suggestions?
July 20th, 2007 at 7:24 am
“Everyone who owns properties is attempting to capitalize on the housing crunch and on the pressures that tenants are facing. It’s an indecent situation, when we know that there are apartments available for rent sitting vacant and deliberately being left vacant. Caretakers and managers of these apartments are being advised by owners to leave these spaces vacant rather than permit tenants to live in them, which might possibly create a problem when they have to kick them out on short notice. They’re leaving them vacant in the middle of a housing crunch in anticipation of a time when they will be able to tear the building down completely and create a new luxury facility which will displace the whole works.”
- From the May 7th, 1981 legislative session.
So I guess this isn’t the first time Vancouver has faced a ‘housing crunch’ huh?
July 20th, 2007 at 7:36 am
Why is the government allowing city workers to strike? This affects way too many people and should be handled between the employees and the government. There ought to be a law against city workers striking, if you don’t like your deal find other work!
July 20th, 2007 at 8:19 am
dosh: if the city workers don’t have the ability to strike, then they have no bargaining power. The threat of mutually-assured destruction (a strike or a lockout) is what keeps the union and the company honest, and what settles the vast, vast majority of collective agreements without a strike.
If the employer decides to reduce wages on the next contract (which is what happened at my last employer– some highly-skilled technical people were going to have their wages cut by 50%), then your choice is to either quit, or accept it and constrain the other activities in your life.
Most people can’t just quit their job on the spot– they’ve spent years building a career, they have families, mortgages, etc.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:31 am
patiently waiting said:
Any more suggestions?
Depends on your goals. If it’s retribution you want, start with the fire code violations. In every city I’ve lived in, you may be able to snow building inspectors, but the fire department is both hard to influence (read: bribe) and has a very big stick. Most firefighters I’ve met take their job very seriously and get very mad about unsafe buildings. If you’re lucky, the fire dep’t will actually do some of the other stuff for you (like checking to see if the suite is official or not). I don’t know how anonymous tips work regarding rental income to the CRA, but I’d do that last.
If you just want your DD back, call the landlord and say something along the lines of “can you tell me what part of the tenancy act overrides section 38, which is the part stating you have 15 calendar days to give me back the DD?” If you get a “cheque’s in the mail” runaround, say “and the postmark will show you mailed a couple of days ago, right?” If he tries then to claim damage, at that point I’d essentially end the call with “okay, see you in arbitration” and then go and apply for it IMMEDIATELY (tinyurl.com/32d54v). PITA landlords deserve all slapping they invoke under the RTA. Don’t forget to also request the landlord also cover the $50 filing fee you’ll have to front.
If he doesn’t agree to get you the money by the end of business THAT DAY, call the RTO and start the process for getting double back. LOG EVERYTHING: time of the call, etc. If you do it from a cell phone, even better; your bill should later reflect the time/date/duration of the call.
Don’t know if you’ve seen it or not, but I love this site:
http://apartmentguide.ca/Advice/
July 20th, 2007 at 9:11 am
I would hazard a guess that Revenue Canada doesn’t know about the suite.
If you want revenge rather than renumeration, that’s a sure way to do it. Back taxes and fines add up quick.
Remember, revenge is a dish best served cold. Don’t rush, and make sure to change your address with Can Post for an extended period, because your landlord won’t be forwarding your mail after getting burned.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:20 am
From the May 7th, 1981 legislative session.
So I guess this isn’t the first time Vancouver has faced a ‘housing crunch’ huh?
Yep, and we all know how that affordability problem got solved, don’t we?
Wages aren’t going to rise to meet home purchase costs. That’s not the way it works. House prices fall until they are in line with wages again.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:20 am
M, Don’t they have bargaining power from their freedom to quit? If they don’t like the deal they can walk away and find something better.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:31 am
The proposed wage increases by the city are 9.75% over 39 months. CUPE 15 and 1004 are demanding 14%. Neither wage increase is going to make it possible for city employees to start buying real estate in Vancouver proper en masse. Furthermore, most of them already live in the suburbs.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:56 am
I want my city taxes reduced by the number of days the city workers are on strike and not delivering services. No service – no money.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:01 am
Yeah Dosh, whats wrong with these city workers? Why don’t they just vote to give themselves a bigger pay raise like the MLAs did?
July 20th, 2007 at 11:02 am
Thats not the way that it works owg – the city takes that money and sits on it whether your garbage is being picked up or not.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:07 am
That ‘buyers remorse’ is the weirdest article I’ve seen in a while. What was their point? They give several examples of people making boneheaded purchases and feeling remorseful about them, then they sum it up with ‘just don’t think about it’?!?! WTF?!? What about THINKING before you buy instead of attempting to NOT think about it afterwards?
July 20th, 2007 at 11:18 am
I realize that the wage increases aren’t going to get in line with price affordability – but why shouldn’t the wealth be shared?
Start taxing these houses at appropriate rates – drop the homeowner grants – and pay people what they need to live in this city.
If Vancouver can pay millions to a hell’s angel for a run down building – why shouldn’t the guy cleaning the streets be able to live a little more comfortably?
All the governments are always pushing the line that this is the best place in the world to live.
All I’m saying is that wages obviously need to rise to actually make this the best place in the world to live.
and if it has to start with the city workers – so be it.
As for employers not being responsible for the house prices – who do you think buys the houses?
Who do you think has the wealth?
I know of many people pushing their bosses for huge raises – because they can’t afford not to.
So I really see this strike as the little guy just trying to get his piece of the pie – and I personally hope he gets it.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:36 am
I guess that those international “the best city to live in” surveys don’t take into account that Vancouver goes without garbage pick-up every two years during the summer…
On a more serious note would it be possible to launch a lawsuit against the city to recoup the tax money for services not delivered? Is there a legal ground or precedent for this? Surely somebody is a lawyer here…My point here is that the city and the workers have to be forced into an intelligent solution instead of having the same 1930s spectacle with garbage every 2-3 years. Get an impendent binding arbitration BEFORE contract expires, not after you piss of everybody with 2 months of strike/lockout. That would demonstrate some progressive thinking for a change…
July 20th, 2007 at 11:39 am
dosh: it doesn’t work that way. If you’re in a union, and you go to your boss and say “I need a 5% raise or I’m quitting”, your boss might feel bad, but isn’t able to do anything for you. There is no option for your boss to subvert the collective agreement to give you that 5% raise, no matter how well-deserved it may be.
So your individual action of quitting won’t change anything. Maybe if you get a whole bunch of people to threaten to quit at the same time, or to actually quit at the same time, they might sit down with the union and renegotiate the contract.
But guess what? That’s pretty much a strike!
July 20th, 2007 at 11:58 am
“Any more suggestions?”
Draft separate letters to CCRA, City of Vancouver, and the Fire Department. Do not send them but give copies of them to the landlord with another letter marking your intent to send these unless your deposit arrives in 2 days. If nothing happens, fire off the letters and then follow shikko and beta’s advice. Don’t give the landlord any leniency because he is not giving you any.
In the end, if you get your deposit in the next 1-2 days, drop the whole thing and move on.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
So I still haven’t received my damage deposit and its after the 15th
You should let CCRA know about the suite no matter what. If they’re aware of it then no problem, if they’re not then the owner can start paying their share of the tax burden. Under what circumstance would cheating on that taxable income be acceptable?
July 20th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
there numerous fire safety violations and certainly some building code issues.
You should report these as well – thats not a matter of revenge, It’s a matter of safety for the people living in the building.
July 20th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
I don’t sympathize with the strikers. The argument that they can’t afford a house holds no water. In fact city workers and other overpaid government workers helped create this mess. Professionals such as myself always made less than them in this city and as a result we left. When prices were lower it was union employees who were more likely able to afford vancouver real estate.
The real problem with real estate prices is not wages but a population that has no understanding of the real value of real estate as an investment. And people who have no understanding of a free market. Vancouver is a city of children that strike and get their demands when things don’t go their way. People who go out and spend more than they can afford then demand the government take care of them. If they don’t like their jobs they can quit. I have done this more than once.
July 20th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
Fedupbear, You forgot to say /illogical rant off/ after your comment.
July 20th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
fedupbear – I don’t know what kind of professional you are
- but I know of no doctor/lawyer/accountant/architect/engineer etc that makes less then a city worker.
July 20th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Wow – this is cool, I wish someone would do this for Vancouver: This guy is tracking craigslist rental data for San Fran and doing google map overlays showing price trends and inventory.
July 20th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
I posted this at RET, but I have to post it here also. Try to not thing about failed flippers turned landlords when you watch this. (especially given the seemingly younger and younger ages of our future Donald Trumps in Vancouver)
http://tinyurl.com/yvmbub
July 20th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
Blue:”I don’t know what kind of professional you are
- but I know of no doctor/lawyer/accountant/architect/engineer etc that makes less then a city worker.”
Pathetic. I know of no city worker that sacraficed to go to University for 10 years. I see a lot leaning on their shovels every day though.
July 20th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
Jim – I know of no city worker who sacrificed to go to University for 10 years
Exactly – that’s why professionals MAKE MORE then city workers – not like what fedupbear said. – doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to feed their families though – does it? Doesn’t mean that they don’t have a right to say “we want more”.
As for them leaning on their shovels – seems to me that their shovel leaning = our playing around on blogs all day – so who’s worst?
July 20th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
Thanks for all your responses.
This may shock you, shikko, but my ex-landlord is a firefighter (among other things). That makes this even more inexcusable. mold city is right on this matter. Morally, I have to take action on this, regardless. There are no smoke or CO2 detectors (I had my own ones but not installed and took them with me). No fire extinguishers. There is not a separate outside exit for the basement suite (enters into common laundry room), and no fire separation between the upstairs and downstairs suites. No face-plates on most outlets and wires hanging from the ceiling where there should lighting fixtures. The fan over the stove just circulates smoke around the room.
The city may be interested in hearing about the suite strictly because of taxes. No permit was issued for the suite (I checked) so the city is not taxing for it.
I’ll have to see on the CCRA. That’s my ultimate revenge, and it won’t be an anonymous act. I don’t feel the same on this as I don’t know for a fact that he is cheating. If he is, its over 25K income a year for both suites. Anyone who turned in everyone they suspected of cheating, would be very busy and hated.
jesse, i agree with you about dropping it once he coughs up the cash (still no cheque in the mail today) as I look forward to leaving this behind me. But I don’t think I’ll threaten to do anything. Either I do it or I don’t, and if I do it, it will leave him shocked and (hopefully) regretting his ways.
The only thing I might remind him of is the doubling of the damage deposit quoting the legal text that shikko mentioned. But if that doesn’t move him, he is f**ked.
I have logged him on email twice promising to send my DD cheque. I hope that is sufficient. Also, the ex-landlord failed to do opening/closing inspections even after I asked for them. And I have proof through a registered mail receipt that I sent the notice on time. Mind you, I doubt he filed for anything. He is a very busy and disorganized guy.
beta, my important mail never went to that address so I’m not worried about forwarding.
All I know is I immediately handed over my rent cheques every time, the first time asked. I left the place in better condition than I found it and gave more than enough notice. He has not treated me with the same consideration.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
blue you must define city worker. There are a lot of highly paid government employees. Be they city workeres, people who work for crown corporations, transit etc. For their qualifications they get paid on average more than the rest of us. I wonder if you have a profession? Something tells me you are the bitter office guy who always complains about how good the engineers or programmers have it.
Salaries never reflect house prices unless your a realtor, they never have and never will. It is the other way around house prices should reflect salaries. Its a big world if you vancouver gets too unaffordable just leave. We all have choices to make. I left I didn’t go on strike. Your an adult not a child. Its not the governments problem.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:16 pm
…doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to feed their families though
Blue, it’s been said ad naseum by others.
No. One. Deserves. To. Live. Here.
Or anywhere for that matter. If the skills a person has cannot generate enough revenue to exist in a particular location, said person should either move to a place where it is financially agreeable to do so, or upgrade their skills.
It is as simple as that.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:19 pm
lol! I love the internet – If anyone disagrees with you they must not be as educated as you.
I’ll tell you what fedupbear, if it makes you feel better to assume that I’m some high school drop out – go right ahead – I won’t lose any sleep.
As for defining “city worker” – I believe the mention of “garbage man” and “the little guy” in my posts, should have been enough to make it clear who I was speaking about.
Global News had a very informative report this evening that broke down what kind of salaries we’re dealing with at the city, you should go take a look.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:21 pm
Oh, and please put me in the, “I’m sick and f@cking tired of these strikes every other year” camp.
Furthermore, is it just me, or does every PR hack from the union sound like they’ve got the presentation skills of a junior high drama student? For the amount of dough those operations roll in, you’d think they could hire some professional front-people.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:22 pm
o.k reductimat – but I don’t want to hear you complain when you’re garbage isn’t getting picked up – you’re right, no one has the right to live here – but that also means that you have no right to complain when no one who does live here wants to pick up your garbage.
Whether you like it or not – we all actually NEED these guys. How much would we have to pay YOU to pick up garbage, work on sewers etc etc.
July 21st, 2007 at 6:16 am
As for employers not being responsible for the house prices – who do you think buys the houses?
The people buying right now are idiot speculators whose favourite TV show is “The Apprentice”, and foolish homedebtors who think they have to buy now or never.
Just like south of the border a couple of years ago.
The wealthy are not buying now. They know better. You get rich buying low and selling high, not the other way around. The smart money knows when to get out. Warren Buffett sold his Laguna Beach, California house in 2005.
These people know what makes a good investment and they know that Vancouver RE is about the worst investment in the world right now.
That’s the way it was in 1981 and that’s the way it is now.
And when the market crashes again this will become obvious to everyone, as it is becoming obvious in the US. Wake up and smell the burnt toast.
July 21st, 2007 at 7:34 am
Blue, you wrote: “…but that also means that you have no right to complain when no one who does live here wants to pick up your garbage.”
Have you heard of the concept of Supply and Demand? If not, you’ll have to trust me that if no one wanted to do garbage pickup, the salaries would escalate until people were interested.
Regardless, I have a hard time feeling remorse for a group of people who continually hold cities hostage when they have some of the best benefits packages around.
July 21st, 2007 at 9:37 am
Under what circumstance would cheating on that taxable income be acceptable?
As a landlord/taxpayer, I would say none. Patiently, as a tax-paying rule-following landlord and tenant, I’d ask you to please follow up with CCRA on this one.
Regarding the garbage strike, lets be honest, anybody and everybody knows that a job with the city (or any government/union) is highly desired by anyone without an education, as they know this is a meal ticket for a decent living. Do you think the janitors or security guards that work at office buildings after hours for $10/hr (no benefits) have any sympathy for the bus drivers and garbage collectors that make 2.5 times their wage with full benefits?
(rant)
I’m all for fair wages and reasonable working conditions, but when this asshole who makes $25/hr refuses to pick up more than one recycle box outside my house, I could give a shit whether he gets a raise. (rant off)
July 21st, 2007 at 9:59 am
Sorry to be the bad news bear, although I don’t think it actually makes much difference, but Crazy SATV might have been right, in part.
Make sure when visiting, some new re stats blog, your security settings are at max, and run a spy ware scan immediately thereafter.
Beware of Trojans and other malware.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:09 am
Do you think the janitors or security guards that work at office buildings after hours for $10/hr (no benefits) have any sympathy for the bus drivers and garbage collectors that make 2.5 times their wage with full benefits?
Can’t speak for garbage collectors, but bus drivers have a tough job. A lot of routes are rolling freak shows. Also they have to work split shifts until they get enough seniority. You can’t compare their work to an office cleaner or desk jockey.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:13 am
You can’t compare their work to an office cleaner or desk jockey.
Actually I know a guy who was working overnight security shifts for $10-$12/hr, and recently became a bus driver. As a security guard his job was mostly boring work, but occasionally he was hassled by punk teenagers and that sort of thing. Now he’s on with the coast mountain bus as a driver for Translink. Its not trouble-free, but its a lot easier, better hours, more money, full benefits.
There aren’t many jobs out there that I’d say are “easy”. Work is work.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:46 am
“The riskiest housing markets
A new report projects home-price declines for the next two years. The riskiest markets are in Florida, California, Nevada and Arizona. Here’s how to ride out the hard times.”
the exact warning lights are flashing red alert in Vancouver
Also:
Robsnumbers:
Thanks, I also think the new RE stats blog is suspect. (gee, I wonder who he might be)*
*note no question mark
July 21st, 2007 at 10:47 am
Beware of Trojans and other malware.
Are you saying that REstevens site is installing malware? If not, can you PLEASE specify the site that you believe is a security threat? Its not fair to make vague warnings but give no details.
July 21st, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Looks like forestry workers are set to strike as well. Funny how boom-times seem to breed these job actions. Welcome to our garbage strewn paradise!
July 21st, 2007 at 2:34 pm
A lot of people are seeing this boom and wondering why they’re not part of it. All the boom does for them is make life more expensive. Booms suck!!!!
July 21st, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Friends were visiting from Europe last week and they were laughing at the BC Licencse plates – The Greatest Place ON EARTH!!!!
They thought it was very naive and childish.
It is so embarassing.
(My 10 year old is visiting Canada’s Wonderland in Ontario and she called me and said Mommy, its the Greatest Place ON EARTH!!!!!!
July 21st, 2007 at 3:20 pm
mold city
Here’s a link to something similar. Housingmaps.com.
Unfortunately you can only track a certain price rage, but nevertheless it’s pretty good to see the supply concentration by area visually.
I’ve made a Photoshop comp of all price ranges and vancouver looks pretty concentrated.
Also, with GoogleEarth you can look at all Re/Max listings in Greater Vancouver and Fraser Valley, there are about 4000 of them combined.
If you have GoogleEarth installed take a look at This!
What i also did to make these stupid icons smaller is I edited the file with an editor that replaces all remax icons with the smaller one I made. I also combined Greater vancouver listings with Fraser Valley listings, which gave me a pretty clear picture of supply. And mind you 4000 it’s only 1/3 of the total.
July 21st, 2007 at 3:34 pm
Warren sz: “rant)I’m all for fair wages and reasonable working conditions, but when this asshole who makes $25/hr refuses to pick up more than one recycle box outside my house, I could give a shit whether he gets a raise. (rant off) “
lol – maybe your garbage man just doesn’t like you. My neighbour thought it was a good idea one week to fill his can with broken glass and not tell the garbage guy – who ended up cutting himself.
Needless to say, neighbours garbage wasn’t picked up for weeks.
So you’ve probably angered the garbage gods somewhere along the way – do some feng shui, burn some incense, pray to the big blue recycling sign, and maybe your extra recycling will get picked up – and you can let go of that pent up anger.
July 21st, 2007 at 3:40 pm
I have heard that one reason for the lack of resolution of the garbage strike is the length of the next contract – the City wants a 36 month contract, and the union wants a 30 month contract – so they can renegotiate right before the Olympics. If this is true, it makes a lot of sense, as both parties wage offers are not that far from each other. If it was binding arbitration, odds are the mediator would go with the City.
July 21st, 2007 at 3:48 pm
It looks like there are still buyers. In my complex in East Van, one 500 square foot went for $300,000 (asking price) and a 900 square foot top floor unit went for $475k (asking was $449k). As a number of units are rented in this complex, rent to own comparisons are easy to do. The smaller one would likely garner $1,000 a month in rent, and the larger unit could pull in around $1,600.
So between the rents, and the fact that neither of the two buyers appears to be a wealthy foreigner, I am a little mystified.
I am not sure what either party was smoking so that these purchases seemed like a good idea, but I have to score some!
July 21st, 2007 at 4:49 pm
clarke: Do these units have condo maintenance fees?
July 21st, 2007 at 4:54 pm
The city is offering a 39 month contract and the union wants either a 36 month or 48 month contract. The city rejects both the 36 and 48 month durations because of the olympics and municipal elections respectively. In past years, councillors have avoided holding elections during collective bargaining periods out of fear of union manipulation of election campaigning.
CUPE 1004′s Mike Jackson states that it isn’t likely that there will be much money left in city coffers after the olympics so the unions prefer the shorter contract.
Other major points of contention in negotiations include removal of a new contract clause that stipulates that new job postings can be posted internally and externally at the same time, and higher wage increases (14% vs 9.75%).
You can read the union’s take on it here: http://cupe15.org/Contract%20Counterspin.pdf
July 21st, 2007 at 7:09 pm
I don’t personally know any of the city union members, but I fully support them – I just heard an open line discussion on the issue on CKNW and to me it sounds like the union has a reasonable stance and Sam Sullivan just comes across as a jackass (what else is new). Its a drag not having the trash picked up, but its hardly the end of the world, and its not like we’re not used to it in Vancouver.
July 21st, 2007 at 8:19 pm
“clarke: Do these units have condo maintenance fees?”
Yep. It works out to a monthly levy of around $0.26/square foot.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:54 am
Ultimately the union is not in a position of power and is unlikely to gain anything by going on strike. In the past 2 strikes, the union has lost and its members lost several weeks of wages.
As long as the employer does not have a profit motive, a union will never gain a position of power in collective bargaining negotiations.
Is the proposed CBA fair? Maybe not. Is it unfair? It’s not as if this CBA is going lower the bar on work conditions back to the 1800s. The question of fairness can be answered by determining deep down what the employee thinks he/she is entitled to versus how employees working in private corporations are treated.
A comparison would likely conclude that the treatment is equal.
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:58 am
“Ultimately the union is not in a position of power and is unlikely to gain anything by going on strike.”
True, and once the summer is over, the city will have even less incentive to meet their demands.
July 22nd, 2007 at 11:06 am
clarke:
Remarkable. That’s a price to net monthly rent ratio that works out to almost exactly 345:1 for both of those units.
Keep in mind that historic norm is 150:1 (perhaps arguably as high as 200:1).
So these units are both overvalued by 100%, as per historic norms.
(This is where many bears get there estimations of a 50% crash prediction. Count me in that small group).
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Rentah,
Assuming 25% down, the monthly payment on the large place is around $2,250 a month, not counting maintenance fees and taxes. Not an insignificant part of most people’s take home pay……
I too am in the 45-50% price drop range, which means my neighbours think I am slightly less sane than the woman down the street who lives with 60 cats…….
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:00 pm
I’m not sure if this is a story about the Vancouver condo market or about how we do business in Vancouver, but here is the story of my Ottawa friends. My friends contacted me about their child who was moving to Vancouver to do a five year hospital residency. I gave him the cautionary notes about BC real estate, they were more inclined to rent anyway because it had worked well while the child was at medical school in another large Canadian city. They tried to find a rental place from Ottawa but gave up on that idea and in a bit of frustration decided to buy. They contacted a real estate agent and lined up 12 or so condo properties to view when they arrived in Vancouver. They loaded up the car and drove to Vancouver. A week later they arrive prepared to look at the properties. The agent promptly told them only two of the properties were left and they could view both of these properties if they wished. Given a lack of time – they had to get back to their business in Ottawa they took one of the two available condos.
So I guess the market still is red hot.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:04 pm
This is changing the topic a bit but it I thought it was an interesting story some friends told me at lunch yesterday before they departed Vancouver.
It is their experience with Vancouver real and estate and I’m not sure if this is a story about the Vancouver condo market or about how we do business in Vancouver, but here is the story of my Ottawa friends. My friends contacted me about their child who was moving to Vancouver to do a five year hospital residency. I gave them the cautionary notes about BC real estate, they were more inclined to rent anyway because it had worked well while the child was at medical school in another large Canadian city. They tried to find a rental place from Ottawa but gave up on that idea and in a bit of frustration decided to buy. They arranged financing and contacted a real estate agent and who lined up 12 or so condo properties for them to view when they arrived in Vancouver. They loaded up the car and drove to Vancouver. A week later they arrive prepared to look at the properties. The agent promptly told them only two of the properties were left and they could view both of these properties if they wished. Given a lack of time – they had to get back to their business in Ottawa they took one of the two available condos.
So I guess the market still is red hot.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:11 pm
wow, are east van small one beds commanding 1000/month? is this the norm?
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:25 pm
inwonderment,
It sounds like they were extremely wealthy buyers with a large down-payment and excellent credit. People like that aren’t taking the same risk as Mr. and Mrs. Howmuchamonth.
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:52 pm
I think Inwonderment was referring to the other 10 buyers who bought 10 of the 12 condos his friends were planning to see.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:42 pm
hadenough said “They thought it was very naive and childish.
It is so embarassing.” Actually in general I feel Europeans should be consistantly embarassed, can’t believe how backwards they are. Some of them even think the monarchy is special, and believe it of not, most of them forget that they have caused almost all the present day strife through there colonial practices. That would apply to the majority of European countries, and yes I’ve been there many times, most I can say is they should maybe for once practice what they preach. BC IS the best place on earth, no thanks to our politicians of whatever stripe. It was a beautiful natural environment. (Emphasis on was)!
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:23 pm
I must just be getting completely cynical in my old age – but I can’t help but read inwonderment’s story and immediately think:
The realtor lied to get the buyers from Ottawa to panic and make a quick decision.
God, I hate being this jaded.
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:39 pm
Real-estate values and construction have peaked one to two years before a depression, and have stayed at peak levels until the onset of the downturn.
The historical evidence is consistent with the theory that speculative booms in real-estate prices and construction act as an impetus for the downturn itself.
July 23rd, 2007 at 8:29 am
“The riskiest housing markets
A new report projects home-price declines for the next two years. The riskiest markets are in Florida, California, Nevada and Arizona. Here’s how to ride out the hard times.”
This article is more laughable “predicting the past” stuff.
For example, look at all the cities in Florida, which are already tanking big time, which have a predicted 50% or so “probability” of price drops. Ditto Sacramento.
Yawn.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:20 am
Inwonderment: From your story I see the completely different logics people have regarding rent and buy. Rent in Vancouver is at most double of rent in Ottawa, while buying in Vancouver is at least triple the cost of buying in Ottawa. Somehow people would refuse to pay the double rent in Vancouver for the next year, but have no problem commiting to paying triple mortgage for the next 25 years. Just unbelievable.
I guess prices going down is just too foreign for most people, and buying is never throwing money away.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:25 am
tulip-Mania2:
In Asia, 100+ story buildings can be considered a reliable predictor of economic downturn. By the time a corporation, a city, or even a nation decides to build the tallest building in the world, it’s time to brace for the coming collapse.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:26 am
Ken:
Europeans should be consistantly embarassed, can’t believe how backwards they are.
You certainly can’t accuse the Europeans of modesty and humility. I think BC’s claim is a little over the top, but people in glass houses…
On a related note, I was in London recently and its amazing to spend some time there and actually wonder how these people at one time ruled the world, nevermind the fact that they currently enjoy a great standard of living on the world scale. Ditto Italy.
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:02 am
Ken,
I think they thought it was tacky driving around with it written on license plates.
They don’t think they are any better or their country or city is great. Europeans are always complaining. Anyway, they are only in their 30s and did not have much to do with the colonies.
I think it is tacky too! Like when we walk around Europe with Candian flags all over us. Silly and naive.
Some people think Vancouver is the greatest place on Earth. Some people think Tuscany or Salt Spring or Holt Renfrew are the best places on earth.
If in fact Vancouver is the BESTEST PLACE ON EARTH then maybe property should be so expensive because everyone in the whole world wants to live here and living is the BEST PLACE on EARTH is just worth the price. Maybe we should then not complain about the price of property.
Gosh! Canadians get offended so easily if anyone says anything negative about our country.
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:08 am
I remember Toronto was voted best place in the world to do business or to live or something like that about 10 years ago.
All over the city there were posters saying “TORONTO IS THE BEST PLACE TO LIVE – VOTED NO 1″.
I found it so strange. It was almost like brainwashing people. Don’t comp[lain. This is the Best Place to Live. If you said you wanted to live in Switzerland, Ireland or anywhere else people would get so upset.
Now I think TO has sunk down to 20th or something.
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:18 am
This is interesting.
Top rankings for cities in Asia
The top five cities in Asia were:
Auckland (tied for 5th)
Sydney (tied for 9th)
Wellington (12th)
Melbourne (17th)
Perth (21st)
Osaka (tied for 42nd) was the lowest ranking Asian city in the top 50.
Top rankings for cities in Europe
The top five cities in Europe were:
Zurich (1st)
Geneva (2nd)
Vienna (tied 3th)
Dusseldorf (tied for 5th)
Frankfort (7th)
The lowest ranking European city in the top 50 was Milan (tied for 49th).
Top ranking for cities in the Americas
The top five cities in the Americas were:
Vancouver (3rd)
Toronto (15th)
Ottawa (tied for 18th)
Montreal (22nd)
Calgary (24th)
The lowest ranking Americas city in the top 50 was Seattle (tied for 49th).
July 23rd, 2007 at 7:58 pm
So with all the building inspectors on strike are these CONdos going to take longer to complete.