What about industrial land prices?

We’ve talked a lot about the risks of sharply rising residential land prices here, but what about industrial land prices? Mark sends in the link to this article about the rising cost of urban land driving industry east.

“Our industrial land prices are probably the highest in North America and certainly the highest in Canada,” Heed said.

The high prices reflect both soaring demand and the fact that Metro Vancouver has virtually run out of industrial land. The vacancy rate has plunged to 1.3%, while industrial land rezoning has virtually stalled.

“Companies, big employers, have options in Alberta,” Heed warned a National Association of Industrial and Office Properties (NAIOP) meeting in Vancouver last month.

He said that in Calgary, 3,000 acres of serviced industrial land will come to market this year and, by 2009, the city will have 5,000 acres of industrial land ready to develop.

“That’s where the business will be heading unless something is done,” he said. “In 10 years, we will be in serous trouble.”

..That hasn’t happened yet though, despite the high cost of land there’s still industrial development going on:

More than 3.5 million square feet of industrial space is under construction.

Speculators are also apparently still interested in the Metro industrial sector.

According to Colliers, all five of the major industrial sales during the second quarter of this year were to investors.

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futurestar
futurestar
12 years ago

"I've come to suspect the housing boom is actually driven by people like you, which explains your relentless optimism. These are people who may have visited a few places but never lived in any of them long enough to get their flavour. These people have been bamboozled by a few "best in the world" articles and the Olympics. They think somehow it's going to change things."Couldn't have said it better myself. I've lived in Vancouver 3 different times since 1986, as well as Montreal twice, Toronto twice, Ottawa about three different times, Edmonton and Victoria. I've also spent a lot of time in New York (an expensive city that is justified to be so).What's happening here in Vancouver is a lot of hype as far as I'm concerned. I have a friend who owns 2 condos on Nelson Street in… Read more »

Scullboy
Scullboy
12 years ago

SatV:Honey, I love you because you're really, really silly. It's like your slice and dice real numbers to the point where they're totally meaningless. It's a bit like watching a hobo try and do advanced calculus. I'm never going to convince you that you're wrong so honestly there's no point whatsoever in trying to argue. But I admit I enjoy pointing and laughing. I'm kind of an a**hole in real life.I'm pretty sure 37 our of 100 imigrants do buy a home honey, but they are buying in Toronto, not here. You've never been there so there's just no way you're going to understand it. The immigrants here are NOT buying homes. They can't afford it. There are probably a few here and there who have been culturally conditioned to buy, but they're working 3 jobs to pull it off.… Read more »

ThumbsUp
ThumbsUp
12 years ago

Scullboy,what went wrong all of sudden,if you roll back all over again most of my comments are answer to those issue you have raised in the thread.37 out of 100 immigrants buying a homes here in canada thats true.Issue is to decide in which city do they land into?those are only few like Toronto,calgary,edmonton,and Vancouver.Population in 2006 census was 31,612,897 and in 2007 estimate 33,093,200 now you can calculate the difference in and take out 37% buyers then try to find how many homes are being built just in one year. streel,whats up buddy long time no see,ok is it bad to tell some one which city in the world I like the most?Prices are not going up because of Satv.Won't even go down because of Streel.Price of loonie and real estate are going up because of demand and supply.People… Read more »

streel
streel
12 years ago

"I've come to suspect the housing boom is actually driven by people like you, which explains your relentless optimism. These are people who may have visited a few places but never lived in any of them long enough to get their flavour. These people have been bamboozled by a few "best in the world" articles and the Olympics. They think somehow it's going to change things.I have a very good friend on the IOC. He's also an Olympic goold medalist. He's helped to select cities to host Olympics and even he said (a) Vancouver prices are insane and (b) the Olympics aren't going to provide the city with a permanent boost.So, your nutty commentary and silly links and pointless stats are amusing, but you and everyone like you are in for an extremely rude shock, and it's coming very soon."I… Read more »

Scullboy
Scullboy
12 years ago

Ah, NOW we have it. Well look honey, i've been all over the world myself. I was born and raised in Halifax, Nova Scotia. I spenta year in Montreal, and 10 in Toronto. I've lived in Ottawa as well . I don't mean to hurt your feelings sweetie, but your stats don't even paint a coherent picture. You just throw out random numbers that mean absolutely nothing, and paint so clear picture of anything. You've never been east of Alberta, which explains a great deal. I know that sounds patronizing and I'm soorry for that.It's a HUGE country. Van's lovely but the fact of it is if you're trying to make it in Canada it makes sense to be almost anywhere else. The maritimes have a low cost of living and a pretty good job market if you can crack… Read more »

ThumbsUp
ThumbsUp
12 years ago

Out of curiousity, have you ever been to Toronto? Have you ever been outside of BC?No, I never been to toronto,but Central London,California,New Delhi,Edmonton,and Calgary.I have discover that Vancouver is a place to be.Immigrants:Total 37% out of 100 all over canada 19% out of 100 are young immigrants rest out of 37% which is 18% out of 100 are adults.rest of 63% are family members/students/refugee etc.etc.

Scullboy
Scullboy
12 years ago

Satv honey, again you seem to be misreading stats. That says 19% of young immigrants own a home. Is that in Vancouver or through BC? What's defined as "young"? What percentage of all immigrants are "young immigrants". BTW 19% of 37% is about 7%. That's not very many people honey.. sorry. Certainly not enough to claim tons of new people are pouring in here buying places. And honey I already bought and sold my home in Toronto. I lived there for 10 years and not once, not EVER did I see anyone line up to buy a condo. You post one story and it's supposed to support what, exactly? That building is in pretty much the exact center of Toronto. Out of curiousity, have you ever been to Toronto? Have you ever been outside of BC?

ThumbsUp
ThumbsUp
12 years ago

Scullboy,Those numbers are from Statistic Canada. actually I have posted them in a previous thread, you act as a new bee so I had just copy and paste them here,and for your kind info almost 37% new immigrant are home owners here is little part for young immigrants those are 19% out of 37%19% young ImmigrantsToronto is not bad either would you like to stand in line for weeks?

Scullboy
Scullboy
12 years ago

Oh honey you have GOT to be kidding.First of all, who came up with these stats? You're still just providing a pile of numbers with absolutely no citation whatsoever. Second, these are PROJECTIONS. No matter what the criteria, someone is basically making a guess. And right now we don't even know WHO is guessing? I mean for all we know Rennie's been doing rails of coke of the back of a stripper and making "projections". Second if you're talking Jeff the realtor, he's an acquaintence so thanks but I'll ask him myself. Actually there's not much point in bothering. He's from Toronto as well and I've spoken to him in the past about purchasing here. He told me to hold off. So whatever information you're getting from him, I already know his opinions.Third even if your "projections" are correct you're… Read more »

ThumbsUp
ThumbsUp
12 years ago

Scullboy,I have to seek permission from jeff to prove that, for every thing else here I got what you want.Population Projections Vancouver///Greater Vancouver2007-628,286- 2007- 2,255,373 2008-636,933- 2008- 2,290,568 2009-644,417- 2009- 2,325,817 2010-650,503- 2010 -2,361,833 2011-655,926 -2011- 2,397,466 2012-661,574-2012- 2,434,072 2013-667,321-2013- 2,470,477 2014-673,115-2014 -2,506,254 2015-678,537 -2015 -2,541,522 2016-683,686 -2016- 2,576,271 2017-688,723 -2017 -2,610,677 2018-693,689 -2018- 2,644,8542019-698,477 -2019 -2,678,591 2020-703,170 -2020 -2,711,859 2021-707,656-2021- 2,744,696 2022-712,010-2022- 2,776,820 2023-716,114 -2023- 2,808,217 2024-719,934- 2024- 2,838,714 2025-723,450 -2025- 2,868,360 2026-726,702 -2026- 2,897,192 2027-729,969 -2027 -2,925,338 2028-733,038 -2028- 2,952,861 2029-736,183- 2029- 2,979,681 2030-739,160 -2030 -3,005,697 2031-741,930 -2031- 3,030,887 2032-744,505- 2032 -3,055,0972033-746,846 -2033- 3,078,410 2034-748,972-2034 -3,100,727 2035-750,871 -2035 -3,122,038 2036-752,591 -2036 -3,142,493 TOTALVAN-1,24,305-GVAN-8,87,120

misanthropic curmudg
misanthropic curmudg
12 years ago

methinks ol' satv is running scared.everything is pointing downunrelieved misery to the smartreal estate investor….

tulip-Mania2
tulip-Mania2
12 years ago

Who needs industrial land? What major employer would set up a plant in Vancouver?BC is much like Newfoundland-asphalt politics.When the paving is finished, look for a 50% in RE prices.Tick Tock, Tick Tock

Scullboy
Scullboy
12 years ago

Thumbsup sweetie:Prove it. I mean …c'mon. I'm hot and all but I'm not stupid. 40K people? Bullshit. I could claim to have gone back inn time and saved BC from being taken over by aliens, but it doesn't make it true. Where's your source? Where's your source for the 108K people for that matter? I mean seriously honey, I don't think they're expecting that many people in TO and… well sorry but TO's where the action is at least in Canada. BTW to the other people reading this post I was hanviing out with a buddy of mine recently. This particular buddy is way, way *way* up in TD. He sits on their board. He lends *governments* money. So we were catching up and he asked about life here. I explained how much it would cost to own here, and… Read more »

ThumbsUp
ThumbsUp
12 years ago

aha I can go 5 time over 30 minute anyway back to topic.So far we got 40k people move to vancouver since the last report, as you are new on the board so 40k+1,and in 2.5 year too many there is a future projection about 108k ppl in near future.

Scullboy
Scullboy
12 years ago

Hey Thumbsup honey,Thanks but I moved here from Toronto about a year ago. In fact, I've met Jeff personally on a couple of occasions, he moved here just before I did.There are no bargains in Van. If I were planning on a RE "Investment" I'd buy somewhere like Miami where prices are in freefall. People in Van have kind of lost their minds, as far as I can tell.My friends moved here 2.5 years ago about bought a 1,300 SF townhouse at Keefer and Abbot. Now places half that size are going for more then they paid for their place. Since neither incomes nor immigration have doubles in that time, that's all I need to know about the existence of a bubble.Thanks… I plan on waiting till prices drop here by half. Otherwise I'll head off to Miami. They have… Read more »

ThumbsUp
ThumbsUp
12 years ago

he's quoting unit sales rather then percentage increases.Stack of inventory is a element that help form a bubble,So that great sales are showing the strength of the market that's the only point they have indicated in the report.this is what i can read for you.

ThumbsUp
ThumbsUp
12 years ago

Scullboy,that report on last page is for new homes,and this rebgv one is for resale homes.I should have read the odo meter for you ,if I was a realtor.I can only say as said before in other post that cool season is good for bargain.prices can be check around january february,better way to read meter is responsible agency who published the report, they should point out the real sense,but no body takes responsibility.would you like to do it?

Scullboy
Scullboy
12 years ago

Hey has anyone noticed Satv…uh…thumbsup is folling exactly the same trajectory as the RE bears in the States?Real Estate Goes up forever….now we're at "Plane level off in bad weather" I notice he's quoting unit sales rather then percentage increases.Anyone want to bet on how long it takes before we hear "Off slightly for this quarter but fundamentals are strong?"

Patiently Waiting
Patiently Waiting
12 years ago

"New Westminster up 21.1% (92 units sold, up from 76)"Considering how many buildings are completing in New West right now, that's not going to do it.

ThumbsUp
ThumbsUp
12 years ago

Plane level off in bad weather and landed smothly.Nose and Tails are are also with in the dimension of the tracks.October housing sales consistent with record highs. NOSETailBright spots in Greater Vancouver in October 2007 compared to October 2006: Detached: Burnaby up 14.5% (95 units sold, up from 83) Coquitlam up 31.9% (124 units sold, up from 94) Richmond up 20.4% (136 units sold, up from 113) Vancouver East up 11.6% (163 units sold, up from 146) Vancouver West up 11.4% (156 units sold, up from 140) Attached: Burnaby up 24.1% (67 units sold, up from 54) Port Coquitlam up 62.5% (26 units sold, up from 16) Whistler/Pemberton up 100% (22 units sold, up from 11) Apartments: Burnaby up 25.4% (168 units sold, up from 134) Coquitlam up 20.3% (77 units sold, up from 64) Maple Ridge/Pitt Meadows up 80%… Read more »

markx
markx
12 years ago

To be fair, the logistics of Vancouver is not favorable for land-intensive industries. Plus, commercial buildings can also support a vibrant light industry, such as IT and transportation. Once this bubble settles down, we should see industrial land development resume. Right now both land and labor are too expensive for industrial development.

Londonernow
Londonernow
12 years ago

Warren – I'm talking about land around Vancouver proper, not out in Chilliwack. Vancouver property is too expensive for industrial and commercial now. Developers have been buying land and office buildings and building or converting everything into condos as the residential investor doesn't give a hoot about fundamentals like yield.

Warren
Warren
12 years ago

patriotz, londoner,Would you rather have our rich farmland eaten up by industrial zoning?

Londonernow
Londonernow
12 years ago

Exactly Patrioz. All Vancouverites can continue to pat themselves on the back for making the decision to live in God's Country. They won't have any work, but hey there has to be some sacrifice to being able to live here.

patriotz
patriotz
12 years ago

We don't need no stinkin' industry.Our industry is real estate!