CBC: What you should know before buying a condo
Wendy wrote in to let everyone know that there will be a feature on the crazy condo market playing on CBC television tonight at 7:30 pm.
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From the show blurb:
Wendy Mesley takes viewers inside the booming billion dollar condo market, and discovers that buying a new condominium can put consumers in a crunch with constricting contracts and murky marketing. With a helicopter hovering over construction cranes, to behind-the-scenes access at hyped sales events, Wendy takes potential buyers on an inside tour of potential condo pitfalls. “The Condo Crunch” airs Wednesday, Jan. 9 at 7:30 p.m. (8 p.m. NT) on CBC Television.
update: The show can be viewed online here.
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January 9th, 2008 at 11:31 am
January 9th, 2008 at 11:43 am
If you’re serious about your question, you should take a read of the condohype blog. The guy who writes it clearly has issues but sometimes he makes good points.
January 9th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
You apparently are completely ignorant about the current state of condos in Vancouver or you’re playing dumb because you want to find some more suckers to make money off.
Which is it Dosh?
January 9th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Uhm, everyone does need a place to live but I’m also well affording a nice rental apartment in the west-end with a view of the ocean. Why would I want to pay so much more for a condo? I feel I’m getting good value from my apartment, it’s money well spent on good accomodation and I’m able to invest the difference that I’m saving by not paying mortgage interest, taxes, repairs, and condo fees.
January 9th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
January 9th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
The story I heard was from someone who bought a presale condo on the Toronto waterfront. The showroom had an open house but had a “pre-open house” for Realtors only. When the rest of the public could go in, many of the places (with the views) were already sold. Suddenly 2 days later my friend gets a call saying that one of the units with the view was back on the market but $50K more than the original price. After putting in an offer, the deal “fell through” but, lo and behold, there was another smaller unit that just “came available” for an additional $30K more than the larger place.
Holy crap. From the outside it seems crazy but I can imagine that reality changes when it’s the heat of the moment. In the end it was all shady verbal contracts with invisible owners and flippers, all going through the developer’s sales office. Back the f%&# away.
January 9th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
January 9th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
January 9th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Courtesy of condohype
http://condohype.wordpress.com/2007/10/ … /#comments
Scroll to the top of the page of the comments and you will see the ad. “Projected 10-20% property appreciation”
January 9th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
January 9th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Stage 1 - 2007 November 1st
Internal sale open to developers friends, realtors, business associates et al
Stage 2 - 2007 November 13th
Sale open to the invited public on 1st come 1st serve basis
Stage 3 - 2007 November 13th
BAIT READY AND SWITCH RIGHT NOW
Seeing that the public were hook, line and sinker, the developers increased the prices from $300k to $500k, and from $2M to $3M.
Stage 4 – 2007 November 24th
Sanity returned and buyers rescinded the contracts after 10-day hold. Inventory rose.
Stage 5 – 2007 December 4th
Public sale. No fools rushed in.
January 9th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
January 9th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
There was more, and it sounded mostly like BS, but I couldn’t hear it very well because of li’l solipsist’s loud protestations to being strapped into his high chair.
It’s (amusing) that everything that has been said, from VHB right through to paulb, is now being acknowledged by the “experts”. There will be a 50% correction. (and I’m no “expert”)
January 9th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Affordability depends on a lot of things, including when you bought, where you have to live and what you’re willing to sacrifice in terms of space and convenience.
I bought a condo seven years ago because the cost was about the same as renting. Today, renting would almost double my monthly shelter expenses (accelerated mortgage payments + taxes + condo fees + a little extra for special assessments) and I have a dog. I don’t blame the landlords as they’re caught in this affordability squeeze too.
My advice to someone in my situation who didn’t have to live in Vancouver would be cash in your equity and get of BC, now. Unfortunately, I don’t have that option.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
January 9th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
It focuses mostly on the sales contracts that protect developers at the expense of the people buying units.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
January 9th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Watch The Show
January 9th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
January 9th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Everybody (except the homeless, and I don’t think they’re buying) already has a place to live, and condos are extremely bad value, in terms of value of shelter provided versus financing costs, which is my definition of unaffordable.
You are just spouting the BS that everyone who doesn’t “own” a property is just some kind of homeless person rather than someone making a rational economic decision to obtain shelter for the best value.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
Did the interviewer ask him why then did RE prices start falling in the US while the economy was still strong?
What an ass. It’s the fundamentals, stupid. Prices are not justified by rents or incomes. Anything to point the finger away from the real issue.
Am I the only one who thinks that selling the name of a business school to someone with deep pockets and a big ego makes you look like a bunch of shills from the word go?
January 9th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
certainly not the impression one gets after watching that show.
January 9th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
January 9th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
How many students can you fit into a two bedroom condo?
http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/apa/534194805.html
In order for students to afford $1525, you’d have to squeeze at least four in there.
Animal House New West-style? That oughta help property values.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:28 am
January 10th, 2008 at 1:23 am
How long were we saying that the market was going to burst? Maybe we should accept for once that this is what prices are going to be like and maybe we should be asking for wage increases? This city is just eatting its young anyways.
January 10th, 2008 at 2:15 am
That’s a swell idea. Ever hear of unions? That’s what they’re for.
But the bad news is, even if you have a union, your employer won’t pay you a wage that’s beyond his point of profitability. If you can’t afford a house on that, tough.
And the public sector isn’t budging on wages, either, as everyone ought to know from recent events.
So what happens when wages can’t go up, and prices are too high for people to afford? They come down, that’s what.
January 10th, 2008 at 8:45 am
January 10th, 2008 at 10:18 am
January 10th, 2008 at 10:36 am
- Showrooms that are much larger than the stated dimensions
- Weasel words in contracts, like “secure parking”
- Salespeople that appear to “help” you understand the contract
- Exit clauses ad nauseum
- and on and on
There are tons more to watch out for. Is there any information online that explicitly lists the tricks done in presales? Almost worthy of a separate post.
January 10th, 2008 at 11:35 am
January 10th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Take off your suit and tie- LONGSHOREMAN $50 an hour,CITYWORKERS $27,BUSDRIVERS $29 an hour,WAREHOUSEWORKERS $25 an hour.You don’t know? WCB law has changed for warehouse workers and Government laws has changed for bus drivers want to know why?Because all of them are brand new millionaire,Now you can not spit on bus driver -and warehouse workers can refuse any unsafe work any time.I think most of properties in downtown area are owned by LONGSHOREMAN’S.
SOLIPSIST,
Congratulatoins that you have added lil solipsist in your family,Otherside Drachen is on strike waiting for crash;….either he is going to be a father or he won’t.
CBC:There was nothing in the video which we did not disscuss in the past,what we got here is a visual proof that we were right as usual.
Comment by Andreas
How long were we saying that the market was going to burst? Maybe we should accept for once that this is what prices are going to be like and maybe we should be asking for wage increases? This city is just eatting its young anyways.
Very Well Said,we need to adjust fundamentals as 300.000 buyers are doing it every year.that’s the only way to “RACE AGAINST TIME”…..
January 10th, 2008 at 11:49 am
January 10th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
satv, I am friends with three city engineers and they do not make $27 an hour. Based on the hours they work and their salary it works out to more like $23 an hour.
As for the rest of your numbers I’d say BS just like everything else that comes out of your mouth. Maybe you should see a Dr about that, doesn’t sounds too healthy… all that sh*t spewing from your breathing hole.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
I think everyone figured out that the anon post was you, your style is unmistakeable.
Let me see if I can paraphrase your thesis;
“Prices are out of line with fundamentals so we must adjust the fundamentals to fit the prices.”
Does that essentially summarize what you’re saying here? Sorry to say the Canadian and World fundamentals don’t support a 3x average wage increase for people in Vancouver. I suppose you could change the Canadian and World fundamentals, but you’d have to pretty much murder a billion or so people in other cities who are competing with Vancouver workers for the same segment of the economy. Nukes wouldn’t do it because you’d have to be selective, kill too many and demand will dry up. Short of that your ‘plan’ (I only call it a plan because I can’t think of a good word for ‘insane rambling that has only a vague shape of an idea behind it’) is literally impossible to implement.
Are you actually getting more stupid over time? As I said a while back you REALLY should see your doctor about early onset dementia, nobody within the normal range of brain activity should be so incapable of rational thought.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
FWIW I have yet to meet a single longshoreman (or transit operator, warehouse employee, etc…) after living on the west side for over 15 years.
Thanks for helping me break my new year’s resolution of not arguing with the inept.
January 10th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Currently I know someone at my work who works full time at 2 jobs to get what he wants. Everything is achievable if you really work for it. But saying the sky is going to fall isn’t going to help. But neither is buying a sellers marker =p
January 10th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
YOu really would have to compare. Is working full time at 2 jobs worth it to purchase a home (which is presumable what your collegue wants). For one thing at that level you’re not exactly purchasing the “Laid back, nature loving Vancouver lifestyle” pushed in so many bullshit condo ads. All you are purchasing is a place ot lay your head.
And then there’s the question of location, location location. Why work 2 full time jobs to live in Vancouver when Miami is in a total meltdown? Why not just move there, work at a more reasonable level and buy a beachfront condo? Just what is sooooooo special about Vancouver that makes it worth working 2 full time jobs?
Saying the sky’s going to fall *will* help, because it’s a needed antidote to the SatVs of the world who mindlessly cheerlead this irresponsible bubble.
For those who missed it, here’s a quote I passed Solipsist from Dickens’ “Nicolas Nicholby”:
So you see, it’s an old, old story. Warning people like your collegue the sky *will* fall is the responsible thing to do.
January 10th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Tony,because toped longshore mf creat a lock through union ILWU that all new employee will be hired as casual. so atleast first three year new employees have to strugle too hard unless some one retired they can take their place.
Drachen,I was trying to pick up theme from Andrea as prices are not coming down so why don’t we push our employers for increase to catch inflation,then buy a house and shop at dollar store.
Oye you can add a lil DC in your family Crash is no where near in the future so…..
Anyway half an hour ago got call for extra shift on day off chow let me fill the labour shortage……
January 10th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
I’ll just go ask my employer to double my salary so I can afford a showebox downtown. I’m sure they won’t laugh in my face…. I mean if prices won’t come down they’ll just have to double my salary and the salaries of all those people who want to buy houses.
Wow…. just…. wow.
January 10th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Yeah there are those that will work their butts off to achieve their goals. I don’t fault someone for this. The problem comes when 2 jobs are not available. You want to really work for it but it just is not possible, or it is possible but only at $10/hour and not $25.
It’s the old story — either things revert to the average or they don’t. It could be that the next generation needs to work 2 jobs to afford property but given how cheap rents are I think more people will opt for a more balanced life, once REAL prices are shown not to increase at 5%+/year forever.
January 10th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Developers can, and have been, playing fast and loose in a market that is in full Bull mode. Not every developer has been as flagrant with the loopholes as those mentioned in the piece… but the opportunity is there. She covered everything from changes to spec to cancellations and how that affects the people who have invested money and time (time being more valuable in a rising market… lose it and you lose out).
The lawyer and Wendy advise you take a realtor with you to the sales centre. Can a realtor help you on the showroom floor? Yes. They can help with the contract and, more importantly, keep you calm and level-headed at signing. Negtiations? Maybe. Not so much on the first day of sales (the manic stage) but later with unsold suites.
In this market, if you were to take the contract to a lawyer and decide that you didn’t like something, well, the developer would likely just let you out and return your deposit. There would be no renegotiation. Not when there is often a wait list for rescinded contracts. Still, you have to thank the government for enacting a 7day grace period to rescind. This is a big comittment and one not to be taken lightly.
January 10th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
January 10th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
January 10th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Just wait until there is an oversupply and nothing is selling. It’s amazing what you can cross off and add in contracts when someone is despearate enough.
January 10th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
I was told this by someone who gave up being a carpenter after he got on the list at the hall. He made up for not working full-time at first by doing the odd carpentry and handyman jobs while waiting for a call.
Oh yes, and granite countertops and stainless steel appliances are not high on their list of priorities when they’re looking for a place to live so Yaletown condos are not big with this crowd.
January 10th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Oh, he may have to because wages are set by supply and demand. Thus he will may have to pay wages above his point of profitability. Until he goes bankrupt that is.
January 10th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
Banks and brokers don’t like to give out mortgages to these people for that very reason….
January 10th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
“Accepted standard”? You think prices are determined by social attitudes or something?
Did the the “accepted standard” for house prices in Vancouver fall 45% from 1981 to 1984? Everyone seemed to think that the high prices were here to stay. Or maybe it had something to do with supply outrunning demand due to prices not being supported by rents and incomes? You think?
Or like, say, in the entire US of A over the last two years? The whole country, execept a few academics and Internet cranks, had “accepted” that prices would never go down.
God this stuff is getting lame.
January 10th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Sadly emigration has been getting higher ever since the announcment olympics. I’m really curious to know how many of them are in my age group (early 20’s)