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complaints about fit and finish in new condos

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Strataman pointed out this thread on real estate talks where some new owners are expressing frustration with a few aspects of the new King Edward Village development at King Edward and Kingsway. Most of the complaints have to do with floor leveling, a few finishing touches and dry wall dust in the carpets.

What level of polish do you expect when you buy a new condo- Is it reasonable to expect that you may have to do a few finishing touch ups and fixes to make the condo your own or should everything be perfect and clean the moment you take possession? Has the high price of condos in Vancouver led to higher than normal expectations for fit and finish, or are these reasonable complaints?

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krrish2

Ultersman,

That was me who advice you about rto case but that day pope's site was crashed somebody else's name poped up nothing else to say no complain about your comment,Cheer Up

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blueskies

when satv/k starts posting stats ya gotta know the end is near.

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crabman

Luk at all dees gurlz. Don't yu wish yu could have dem? Just come to my seminah. Learn magic three wurd.

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ulsterman

Can everyone please stop reacting to krrish1. His "We are still at rock bottom prices in bc prices are *steel* to fill more spots in the heart throb city of this world." comment so clearly suggests that it's just someone baiting you guys. Even if Krrish1 were genuine, he wouldn't believe this stuff. He's just having a laugh winding you all up.

Just hit the PgDn key whenever you see his name.

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crabman

Stop responding to him??? How else will we amuse ourselves while we wait for Van RE to crash? 😛

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scullboy

Crabman:

Exactly! The whole reason the rest of us tried to explain it to him, THEN puit up with his jibbering and capering about, was so we could beat him about the head and next whilst screaming "STUPID BUGGER, WE TOLD YOU SO"

So oooooo no, we put with him on the way up. Now we get to hear him scream and try and claw his way out on the way down!

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Michael Randallbard

In the "Best Place on Earth" Category:

Burnaby man jumped by 4 immigrant punks and set on fire. He did not know his attackers

Another murder by so called Indo-Canadians punk kids although we don't know if they are Canadian but we do know they are Indos.

Some asshole on CKNW this afternoon says drugs should be legalized and that will end our drug problems. Hmmm Singapore ended their drug problem ages ago by rounding up users and putting them in re-hab and then giving the death penalty to drug pushers after a fair trial.

Is Vancouver the best place on earth?

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Clarke

The assignments I have seen and the contracts I have heard about suggest there is good likelihood of buyers getting screwed. I suggest the willingness of people to enter into these risky arrangements is largely a reflection of the bubble mentality.

In the current market, many RE sales are done with multiple offers, hence no subjects allowed. You cannot get more crazy than that.

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M-

Olsen On Your Side:

http://tinyurl.com/yumdct

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blueskies

If the collapse starts with a turn of psychology then one of the best leading indicators would be a sudden increase in activity in blogs like this.

i was contemplating the very same idea…

new paradigm?!

i await with bated breath…..

even Chipmans blog is chock-a-block with postings except for satv of course

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scullboy

The psychology has turned. From the article:

I think there is an assumption that real estate prices always go up. But that's not always the case.

One THAT meme gets out the next step is "we're at the top, it's time to sell before my investment loses value"

Krrish, buckle in. We kept you along on this ride just so we could watch you scream on the way down:

Just like this

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Drachen

I know this is a bit off topic but this place is really jumping lately. Any stats on how much the traffic has picked up here lately? If the collapse starts with a turn of psychology then one of the best leading indicators would be a sudden increase in activity in blogs like this.

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Aleks

My theory on assignments is that it's the fault of the speculators. In a sane world, people would buy new condos after they're built and you can actually walk around and look at them. If the developer wants you to buy a presale, then they would have to give an incentive, like a reduced price. After all, you're loaning them money and agreeing to buy something you can't live in for a year or more, and assuming various risks. It benefits the builder but there's no benefit to the buyer, therefor they have to give you an incentive to balance that. Therefor, it a non-bubble market there would actually be a discount for buying presales, and from what I've read that's historically the case. However, the speculators have been buying up presales to flip. They're assuming double-digit appreciation and because… Read more »

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btk

LOL!

Krissh trying to use statistics is hysterical!

Maybe Krisshh is actually Tom Vu.

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crabman

Here is a Krisssh video!!!!

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scullboy

You know what's funny? That's EXACTLY how I've always pictured Krrish!

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crabman

SATV must stand for Secret Admirer of Tom Vu.

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jesse

Will: "All of my assignment purchasers have been very happy with their buys and stand to make a lot of money if they decide to sell today (less than a year after assigning and completing)" I don't think anyone disagrees it is possible to buy a presale and take possession with only minor deficiencies. The issue is that many people have had a gap between their expectations and what was delivered. Unfulfilled expectations in contract form is one thing but the danger comes in the items not put in the contract and verbally promised or alluded to. I think we can agree that buying a presale is not a free lunch. There is risk and overhead involved dealing with deficiencies and disputes, especially if they are major. A lot of the expectations are due to salespeople mis-representing what actually will… Read more »

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Will

You bet. As a buyer for an assignment let's say the options (units available) and negotiations are much more in the buyers favour. It is not easy to find a buyer willing and able to put up 20-30+% of a purchase price (deposit+lift). Frankly all teh assignments I have done have been with very reputable developers (Wall, Bosa, Henderson) and the only time we had any slight doubt was with Henderson (just because of unfamilarity) but on that one I repped the Seller (Assignee/buyer had their own agent).

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Drachen

Oh here we go, YOY price drops (this is in regard to the top 15 list)

Los Angeles -11.9%

San Diego -13.4%

Salinas -12.6%

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Drachen

Tony Danza: "A good lawyer might even recover their fees from the developer." I doubt it, have you looked at the contracts people around here sign? Most of them have a clause that says essentially the developer can do whatever they want including giving you less living space or 'different' finish material/appliances. Re #15: I don't think that's a very accurate assessment. Since about 90% of the new 'housing' is sub 500sq ft here and I doubt that's the case in those other cities, if you adjust for quality I'm sure we're probably cracking the top 5. Demographia should break things down to condo, townhouse, SFH to give a more realistic picture. Also they seem to be about a point low, according to realtylink and statscan our multiple is 9.5 not 8.4. On top of that nearly everything that's higher… Read more »

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Tony Danza

Good point Drachen,

I guess the reason we see people so willing to put up with the deficiencies is that they saved every penny and waited in line to buy one of these places and felt lucky just to get in. Either that or it's 100% financed and they don't have that pride of ownership mentality that would come with more skin in the game.

However I have acquaintances who work in the RE legal industry in SoCal and they had more work than they could handle during the boom, mostly inspections. Maybe Americans are just a little more sophisticated than us?

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scullboy

I think it's a certain isolation Vancouverites feel from the rest of Canada. Other cities seem to have scrappier citizens, for better or worse. And while Torontonians feel their city is the biggest and the most important in Canada and that nowhere else is relevant, Vancouverites really seem to have swallowed that whole "best place on earth, we're lucky to be here" load of crap.

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Digi

Tony: if the market changes from a sellers market to a buyers market you'll probably see more lawyers employed, I think there has been a pretty successful effort to make people believe they're lucky to get anything in the most bestest unaffordable place in Canada. It also seems to be a Canadian trait to be a push-over. We'll see what happens when the cycle peaks and the psychology changes.

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scullboy

I’m not sure it’s a Canadian trait. I have lived in a lot of Canadian cities and I have friends who own in many places. They all had their places inspected and did their due diligence before purchasing.

It seems to be exclusive to Vancouver.

Part of the reason I’m not buying is the price expectation is ridiculous. Part of it is I resent the “you’re lucky to be here, so shut up and take whatever crap is offered” mentality.

That’s a big reason I am waiting. When I start to feel a little of that “We know you have options, we value your buisness and we’ll work in your best interest” love, then I’ll buy.

I imagine that there will have to be a LOT of pain before we see that shift though! 😉

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Digi

Anyone concerned that we’re only the 15th most unfordable housing market in the world shouldn’t worry, I’m sure we’ll make our way up that list even if our prices don’t go up – after all look how many of those markets on the list above us are in California. How are prices doing there right now? Here’s what San Diego looks like right now.(#5 on the list)

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Tony Danza

I can’t believe how stupid these people posting on RETalks are. In the US when a building completes the first people through the door are the lawyers representing buyers. Lawyers go over original blueprints and marketing materials that were presented to buyers at the time of sale and also hire inspectors to inspect the quality of the work. If there are any deficiencies or unauthorized changes to the original design or layout the buyer is either compensated, the deficiencies are repaired or the buyer can walk on the contract with compensation.

Instead of spending $x hundred or thousand to refinish your new place and hope for a refund from the developer why not hire a lawyer? A good lawyer might even recover their fees from the developer.

People fixing their new condos out of pocket make Vancouverites look like rubes.

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scullboy

I hate to say it, but new homeowners in Vancouver *do* kind of look like rubes. It's that whole attitude here I just dont' get, it's like this: Gather every penny you possibly can. Hit your parents up for money. Drain every cent of your savings. Sign up for a 40 year mortgage. do whatever you can to get into the market. Then when you're actually IN the market, expect the developer to make SERIOUS structural errors (uneven floors!?!?!?!) because this is the Greatest Place On Earth and that means you have to pay absolutely everything you can possibly afford, and you can expect NOT to get your money's worth in return". And people FALL FOR IT! That's the amazing thing! Even if you do think this is the Best Place on Earth, you can RENT for half the price,… Read more »

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krrish2

Richard, Thanks for the link "As far as the economy goes, it shows our economy is hot; the fact we are the least affordable or one of the least affordable cities says we're obviously a place where the economy is thriving and doing well," he said. "But as far as people trying to buy in, it's very tough and I can see why they may consider it unfair." Also on the downside, employers dealing with an unemployment rate below three per cent and angling for new talent will have to be creative to lure people to Victoria. HOUSING AFFORDABILITY SURVEY The 50 least-affordable housing markets in Australia, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand, The United Kingdom and United States, according to Demographia International, based on median house prices and median household income: RANK / MARKET / MEDIAN MULTIPLE 1. Los Angeles 11.5… Read more »

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crabman

So by your retarded logic, we are below 14 other cities, therefore we have more upside left? Problem is, most of the cities above us are now depreciating because they are overvalued……………

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betamax

“with the number of crews running on the number of projects under construction right now its understandable how minor major flaws may get through”

There are minor flaws at the best of times, and the situation you describe is far from the best to ensure quality work.

There’ll be a horde of lawsuits as the years go by when these vertical chicken shacks start settling, sagging, and leaking.

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Dosh

Fair enough Will, I understand that your comment refers only to interior finishes. I still maintain that ‘perfection’ is in the eye of the beholder (buyer). The level that one buyer expects may be very different from another. Someone with building experience or an eye for detail may be a lot pickier than someone who just got their first place and is in the honeymoon phase of ownership.

Some of your examples are pretty nit-picky. Glue smudges for instance arent a big deal and with the number of crews running on the number of projects under construction right now its understandable how minor flaws may get through. Thats not to say that it shouldn’t be brought to the developers attention and fixed, but I think a bit of understanding on both sides of the transaction would be reasonable.

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richard

unaffordability in the best place on earth. I wonder if those "best places to live" people have seen this other list…

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krrish2

I guess you’ve never lived anywhere else but Van. Not to sound patronizing but it really does explain your attitude. Sofia, If we adopt your plan today we have to transfer more than 33 million people somewhere else on earth.the forth coming mob which will double the GEN in b.c by 2031. we have to send them notice or state a address to say"please go to new place called xyz and increase the price of y3k" why just why because this beautiful city the best place on earth is just a great piece of art. we will convey the people to just watch Vancouver only on Television from the comfort of their own homes from world wide. by the way if i have to live here and afford to live here why I need to go some where hoon "miss"… Read more »

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scullboy

Krrish, I'm guessing you work in a grow op in your spare time, that's the only thing that can explain it. There are not 33 million people coming to Vancouver. If you believe that, well you deserve to lose all your money in bad investments. Why would they come here? Where would they work? People aren't going to watch TV and say "Wow honey, let's sell out big home, pack up the kids and move to a new country where we dont' speak the language, don't know the culture and have no connection?" Yes, interest rates are low. They're low across the country. That just means it's cheap to borrow money. The problem with borrowing is eventually, you have to pay it back. You can't pay it back if you don't have a good job. There aren't many good jobs… Read more »

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scullboy

Krrish are you on crack?

Today the GVRD is 2.2 million and the population of BC as a whole is 4.4. YOu're trying to claim that by 2037 there will be 33 MILLION people here?

There are only 8.2 million people currently in New York City.

There are currently estimaed to be 33. million people in the WHOLE OF THE COUNTRY.

Jesus you're a retard. Did the other kids pelt you with rocks when you were a kid?

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Warren

Yes, the grass is greener isn't it? If you're suggesting the sale builders that build in both cities (like Concord Pacific), build crap here and perfect condos in Toronto, you're full of it.

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scullboy

Not at all. I meant to say that buying something that's already been built allowed me to look at the building and to know for certain what I was getting.

Heh and I left Toronto becuse I figured the grass was greener in BC 🙂

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Strataman

“I guess my worry would be: if they left those problems in plain view, what are all the problems that I can’t see?”

Case in point; very recently I was asked by a large local elevator company to find out why the controls on the elevators were shutting down constantly. After some four days of investigation we discovered the limit switches on car movement were shutting down the system. Cause? The concrete shaft which the rail guides are attached to are formed crooked. (Uneven concrete floors = crooked concrete building). Solution; keep resetting elevators for a year till warranty expires, then is somebody elses cost (strata).

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scullboy

Wow. Just….. wow.

You know I bought in a 5 year old building in Toronto, and when we made the bid I did quite an extensive inspection.

Don't get me wrong. The paint job was *hideous*. Lime green and lavender. And I didn't like the light fixtures. But other then that, the building and the unit were perfect, no issues whatsoever.

I'm sorry but I just don't think developers would get away with that in TO. They'd get strung up by their necks.

Incidentally that place had 20" ceilings. One SOLID wall was windows with a fantastic view of the lake. It had 2 parking spaces, and it was a penthouse suite.

I paid 217 when I bought in 2004 and sold for 227 in 2006.

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Will

heck some of the complaints regarding CityPlace by Concord Pacific. Just heresay, perhaps, but there is one person out there who is very vocal with their issues.

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patriotz

Who would put a deposit on a car with $5,000 when the car’s design has yet to be finalised, the workers who build it are yet to be hired, the company that builds the car has a reputation for producing shoddy work and it will take two years to deliver?

Someone living the the former USSR?

You don't know how lucky you are, boy. Back to…

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jadeeast

In most city, you buy condo.

In Vancouver, condo buys you!

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