Welcome!
VancouverPeak.com- jesse and Makaya are now friends
- jesse replied to the forum topic Sandbox. in the group Housing Data
- jesse posted an update: CMHC starts, completions and under construction in Vancouver […]
- The Ant started the forum topic BC Population Growth in the group Housing Data
- jesse and The Ant are now friends
- jesse and wreckonomics are now friends
- wreckonomics posted an update: New Year, New HPI. ”Selection Broadens and Demand Eases to […]
- Best place on meth and admin are now friends
- jesse and Best place on meth are now friends
- jesse replied to the forum topic February 2012 Daily Numbers in the group Housing Data
Wordpress theme by Abhishek Tripathi of Mediawick Digital Solutions
March 26th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Krissh, do you understand what opportunity cost is?
It’s clear you don’t. Anyone reading this can see that you’re retarded.
Rich people don’t exclusively look at over priced vancouver condos you fool. You just don’t get it.
There is no way you got past grade five.
If buying today is such a good deal and you actually have money then why aren’t you buying the Corus assignments that people are walking away from?
March 26th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
“Vancouver and Victoria Condo Markets More Accessible To First-Time Homebuyers in 2008″
So they forecast a 5.7% rise in prices in 2008. I hope they are saying the “innovative” products they have to offer this year, not available last year, will compensate for this rise. Or maybe the title should read “Vancouver and Victoria Condo Markets More Accessible than if Prices Rose Faster”. Sometimes I wonder if these guys really believe their own propaganda?
March 26th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Durn tootin’.
It’s King George Bush, fella.
March 26th, 2008 at 10:22 am
Krrish
“In B.C. we have a strong local economy and good job growth, coupled with strong market fundamentals and sustainability, which result in no real estate bubble”.-Prince George Bush
“Prince George Bush”??? If you’re going to make up names to support your flimsy arguments you could at least make up believable names.
March 26th, 2008 at 10:21 am
BDK,
your math calculator should go in garb….you say
“So for five years you lost $1500 subsidizing the mortgage, where is that figure? Oh right that’d put you to $0″.
BDK,The case above is about empty units and rich owners definitely there is no mortgage burden and the owners want their units empty so they are not looking for any yield,despite maintenance carrying cost is 0!0!0! because owner likes to keep the way it is……
Tell me if any bottom liner likes to keep their units empty?
“Go back to stacking boxes and huffing glue, or whatever it is that you’ve done to petrify your brain”.
Where would you like to go bdk?
March 26th, 2008 at 10:00 am
OK!
time for a new slogan…..
Vancouver…the lastplace on earth
March 26th, 2008 at 9:50 am
What am i talking about?
For one thing I have money, I doubt you do.
If you’re so smart and sure of yourself why aren’t you buying the Corus assignments, that the buyers are walking away from?
Oh right because you’re an ignorant, uneducated immigrant fool who doesn’t know anything and writes like an eight year old.
Just look at how stupid you are. In your vacant cost example..
You’ve left out opportunity costs (this means if you’d leveraged $300k and bought energy stock you could have made a better return), carrying costs such as mortgage interest, strata fees, taxes. Do you even know how to use a calculator? I can here this whizzing over your head.
Most retarded people insist they aren’t retarded and you’re no exception.
“example: compare the prices vs past 5 year, average rate of rent $1500 a month=90,000, average appreciation 121% atleast 300k-1m for chickpeas-2 bedroom.”
So for five years you lost $1500 subsidizing the mortgage, where is that figure? Oh right that’d put you to $0.
Go back to stacking boxes and huffing glue, or whatever it is that you’ve done to petrify your brain.
March 26th, 2008 at 9:36 am
Ok, affordability/foothold/”equity building” BS aside, the low single-digit condo price appreciation forecast by Genworth should set some of the bulls to thinking…
These are the cheerleaders, after all.
March 26th, 2008 at 9:24 am
More happiness, this time from Genworth:
http://tinyurl.com/2k2g7g
Apparently we can’t build enough of them.
Ugh.
March 26th, 2008 at 9:16 am
RtS: “While it won’t save them alot of money it will build the reserve quicker then if the building was completely occuppied.”
There are two separate issues here: unoccupied units that pay fees on times and units that have fees in arrears. I agree the former leads to lower strata costs and assumedly lower fees in the long run than would be the case with 100% occupancy.
As for arrears, in the short term if payments go in arrears the strata must cover the difference in fixed costs and this means higher fees. But as long as the monies can be recovered with interest eventually it’s better to have as many unoccupied units as possible for the reasons you and others laid out. This does not account for the logistics/legal overhead of having people not paying, which could negate the savings and more.
March 26th, 2008 at 9:02 am
R.T.SENDER,
It doesn’t matter to those people who likes to secure a place for them self in the b.p.e. you are thinking according to your pocket and bank balance but rich people have logic to save money even if the units are empty but it’s worth securing them.example: compare the prices vs past 5 year, average rate of rent $1500 a month=90,000, average appreciation 121% atleast 300k-1m for chickpeas-2 bedroom.
“In B.C. we have a strong local economy and good job growth, coupled with strong market fundamentals and sustainability, which result in no real estate bubble”.-Prince George Bush
It’s worth securing a place”those people won’t hate them self later”.-Satv
So what the fu#k Tony and Bdk are talking about?
March 26th, 2008 at 8:59 am
the garbage doesn’t need to be picked up as often, the parking gates/elevators get less use etc etc.
These are regularly scheduled maintenance items, the garbage still gets picked up once a week regardless if the bin is full or not. The gates and elevators still need regular servicing whether used once or 10000 times a day. You might save very long term on wear and tear.
Nice try putting a happy face on the repercussions of our RE insanity though.
March 26th, 2008 at 8:46 am
Only in BC would people say “it’s not so bad to live in a half empty place…”
Guys, buildings are supposed to HOUSE PEOPLE. They aren’t supposed to be … you know… empty museums or whatever.
Think about it. Buildings are designed to be occupied. If all those units are empty, and the same is true for other new buildings, then something is SERIOUSLY WRONG WITH HOUSING IN VANCOUVER. Vancouver is building “luxury
” shoeboxes that NOBODY LIVES IN. Meanwhile homelessness increases and affordability decreases.
Does this REALLY sound like “the world’s most liveable city”, or some kind of Disneyland – esque artificial “city of the future”.
And another question… if those units aren’t being used as someone’s home, who is using them, and for what?
Think about it…. “safe”, “discreet” “access controlled”. Strataman mentioned the massage parlour running in Spectrum. Last year they fuond a meth lab in West Pender. These half empty building with excellent security would be prime locations for storing illegal substances (meth, extacy etc), mountains of cash, contraband, guns.
They’d also be perfect for “high end” brothels, massage parlours etc.
Only in BC….
March 26th, 2008 at 8:26 am
I am aware that the strata fees wouldn’t get cut in half, or even reduced to 2/3rds but there is no denying if the building is half empty, the garbage doesn’t need to be picked up as often, the parking gates/elevators get less use etc etc. While it won’t save them alot of money it will build the reserve quicker then if the building was completely occuppied. Besides living in a half empty building is certainly a plus for me, better chance at only 1 neighbour instead of two, maybe no one above you, less waiting at the elevator, gym/pool always free for use. I can’t think of the positive of the building being full unless you only intend to flip and don’t want competition, but to live there it’s a no brainer to me.
March 26th, 2008 at 7:53 am
From CNN:
Greg and Barbara Abbott have already cut the price twice on the two-bedroom condominium they are trying to sell on the Las Vegas strip. They’re asking $669,900 now — and an offer in the $650,000 range means they’ll lose money.
Abbott thinks hesitant buyers don’t realize how reasonable the current price is. “They’re not really being realistic about what the place is worth,” he said.
You’re the one who isn’t being realistic, dumbass. Your condo is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Period.
March 26th, 2008 at 7:50 am
So it’s not a bad thing to be in a half empty place
LOL, thanks man, I’ll be chuckling about this one all day!
just because nobody’s moved in next door doesn’t mean somebody is desperately trying to rent out the unit, bleeding cash, etc.
Not according to the ads on craigslist…
March 26th, 2008 at 7:45 am
OT but here’s a tidbit for those following the US economy;
“The Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index, the basis for about half of the $1 trillion invested in U.S. index funds, finished at 1352.99 on Tuesday, below the 1362.80 it hit in April 1999.”
March 26th, 2008 at 5:29 am
I’m not so sure that a half-empty building just after completion is a sign of impending doom. I’ve moved into a just-completed (but sold out) building and it took a while to fill up. If you see a bunch of for sale signs, that’s one thing, but just because nobody’s moved in next door doesn’t mean somebody is desperately trying to rent out the unit, bleeding cash, etc.
March 26th, 2008 at 12:04 am
At some point the very negative psychology south of us has got start taking hold up here….I mean we seem to embrace all other aspects of American culture etc…American Idol, and on and on
U.S. Home prices prepare for dismal spring
http://www.cnn.com/2008/BUSINE.....index.html
March 25th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
In my experience, in a foreclosure, banks are usually pretty prompt in making sure that strata fees are paid. They don’t want any other entity to have a claim against the property. Also, certain forms must be filled out before a property can legally change hands. One of those forms is a statement that there are no outstanding debts owed to the strata corporation. If there are, then the amount is usually put into escrow until closing, and then it is forwarded to the strata corp. by the lawyers handling the transaction for the new purchaser. Don’t know if that’s the way it works in all cases, but that’s been my experience (limited).
March 25th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
FWIW, my last condo had hot water and gas for hte fireplace provided by the strata. Natural gas made up about 40% of the strata’s expenditures, so if half the building wasn’t being used, presumably that would result in a 20% reduction in strata fees.
…Though since the budget’s voted on annually, it’d be a while before those drops would filter through, if ever. More likely, the contingency fund would build up quicker than it would otherwise.
March 25th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Actually it’s even better then that, if half the units are empty, all strata fees are still collected, but less service is being consumed. So either the reserve will be built up fast or fees will get reduced. So it’s not a bad thing to be in a half empty place</b?
It is pretty hard to shut down half the pool, vacuum half the hallway, scrub half the lobby, heat half the common areas, replace half the roof, and mow half the lawn. Thus stratafees will be much more than half should half the units be vacant.
March 25th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
That is, until the arrears can be collected.
March 25th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
“So it’s not a bad thing to be in a half empty place”
The entire building still needs to be maintained so only half the units paying strata fees will be paying more for sure. Maybe not 2X but definitely more than 1X.
March 25th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
I don’t know how things work here. I was actually thinking of Miami where things do not apparently work the same as here. The strata fee problem was cited by a bank as one of the reasons they will not give mortgages for many of the newer condo developments in that city.
March 25th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Actually it’s even better then that, if half the units are empty, all strata fees are still collected, but less service is being consumed. So either the reserve will be built up fast or fees will get reduced. So it’s not a bad thing to be in a half empty place
March 25th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
M “If an owner stops paying the strata fees as well as mortgage fees, and the bank forecloses on the owner, then the mortgage debt is payable first, and the strata becomes another unsecured creditor” If your talking strictly money/debt recovery you are correct, however unless the bank or bankruptcy trustee determines that the property is worthless ($0.00), they will come to the conclusion that strata fees in arrears would have to be paid either by the bank or trustee even if their net profit was $500.00, ontherwise they would not be doing “due diligence”. The strata may at anytime after serious arrears suspend all services. I suppose a complete economic collapse might leave the strata with no option but to double strata fees for those remaining, but I suggest at that time the property in question would then be common property(owned by the strata to do with whatever they decide), or owned by a bank and considered worthless in which case $5.00 would probably buy it for the strata.
March 25th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Warren/Jason/Strataman:
If I remember correctly from my Clark Wilson newsletters (http://www.cwilson.com/newsletters/stratagies/), there is one case where a strata can be screwed out of monthly maintenance fees.
If an owner stops paying the strata fees as well as mortgage fees, and the bank forecloses on the owner, then the mortgage debt is payable first, and the strata becomes another unsecured creditor, fighting over the scraps of whatever’s left. In a rising market, this wouldn’t be much of a problem. In a falling market, where CMHC insurance starts to come into play, there won’t be anything left…
March 25th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
“Pay $459,900 (Original Price) with 10% Down”
Jesse says:
What do I pay with 5% down?
—————-
The wording is odd. What do they care how its financed? Are they trying to add 10% to the price? I’m sure many of these assignment flippers are slippery characters so watch out. Like the shark dude on Fishy Real Estate.
March 25th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
jason “I don’t think that’s how it works. There is always an owner of a suite, whether it’s an individual, the developer or the bank. Therefore strata fees has to be paid.”
Correct!
March 25th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Warren said;
“And remember, if half the condos are abandoned or unsold the other half gets DOUBLE the strata fees! (on top of the normal doubling in the first years for new buildings)”
I don’t think that’s how it works. There is always an owner of a suite, whether it’s an individual, the developer or the bank. Therefore strata fees has to be paid.
March 25th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Warren
The Vine opened up a month or two ago, it’s hard to tell when because there’s so few people living there. It seems like nearly every day there’s an open house sign out front.
So I don’t think it takes Whalley conditions to make condos a flop, I expect that if the Vine can’t keep more than half occupancy then none of the new buildings can.
And remember, if half the condos are abandoned or unsold the other half gets DOUBLE the strata fees! (on top of the normal doubling in the first years for new buildings)
March 25th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Could be so many different scenarios it’s impossible to guess, divorce, death in family, loss of job, maybe some amazing deal has come up and they need that money for it, who really knows. Lets see if this becomes more common.
March 25th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
True, everyday some people wish for the correction to take place (including myself). The thing is it will take some time. I do believe the tide is turning but it will still take a few months before anything drastic will take place. Too many people in Vancouver watched flip this house on TV and refuse to lower their price. Like other people, renting and waiting.
March 25th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Waiting for this condo supply glut is like watching paint dry. Projects seem to complete at a snail’s pace these days.
When I look up Infinity it looks like the first tower isn’t even completed yet, or at least ready for occupation. Is that wrong? It will take a few mortgage payments before we start to see any real fire I’d think.
March 25th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
“No Lift price just pay $349,900 plus GST upon completion and property is yours”
Wow, that is a surprising ad on craigslist. This is the first one I’ve seen with these conditions and probably not the last. This is a desperation to sell. If he can’t complete, he loses his WHOLE down payment of about $35,000! I bet if he can’t find a buyer, and someone can offer him $5,000 at the last minute, he would take it!!
March 25th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
“Pay $459,900 (Original Price) with 10% Down”
What do I pay with 5% down?
March 25th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
“when the euphoria clears will we found that we’ve overbuilt the local condo market?”
It’s an interesting question to ponder about how financing condos and the law in the US differs from BC. Could developer cancellations be more common in BC?
That said, there will be enough builders out there with interest in maintaining their reputations that they will not cancel projects and instead complete them at a loss. We all saw what happened to the unfortunate firms and people that cancelled projects. Imagine if one of the more established developers did this.
I have argued before that it’s often hard for companies to do the “do nothing” option: there are full time staff to pay, many excellent quality and difficult to replace, and they will leave if they aren’t doing anything. And there is always the chance things could turn around. In many ways a catch-22 and the result is an overshoot in supply.
March 25th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Maybe Krissh can buy those free assignments at Cora?
Best Place on Earth!
March 25th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Been checking out infinity listings on craigslist. 107 so far, some offering free rent or hydro included. I can’t see why people aren’t clambouring over each other for the chance to live in Whalley!
March 25th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
heres another one
best of craigslist
$459900 Cora Towers Assignment, Pay Original Price, 10% Down, No Lift, 2bdrm
——————————————————————————–
Reply to: hous-618339802@craigslist.org
Date: 2008-03-25, 12:32PM PDT
My client cannot complete on these properties so pay what he did a year ago, similar units are selling for $40,000 more, get this one today for well under current market value.
Pay $459,900 (Original Price) with 10% Down
Completion is in 4 weeks
Cora Towers Assignment – 555 Delestre Avenue
2 Bedroom, 2 Bathroom, 2 Parking Stalls
944 sq/ft
Granite Counters, Stainless Appliances
16th Floor
Excellent Views, High Floor, Great location.
Call Sarf 604-512-4598
Floor Plans available.
Delestre at North Road google map yahoo map
Location: Coquitlam
it’s NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 618339802
——————————————————————————–
Copyright © 2008 craigslist, inc. terms of use privacy policy feedback forum
March 25th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
No Lift price just pay $349,900 plus GST upon completion and property is yours.
OK! how about a short sale?
Are you up for that?
say…$250 sq/ft. vendor pays closing costs…
March 25th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Hey Rock: Can you elaborate a bit about the condos that are not listed on mls? Just wondering if there is some literature on it, locally.
Also, for the group, can someone describe how an assignment works through a property transfer? What are the benefits, for whom?
I’m learning as I go, renting and waiting right now.
March 25th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Bubbletracking blog has a story about the Cromer family. It is such an outlandish bubble stereotype that I thought it was April 1′st already.
In 1998 Mr. Cromer rode a rollercoaster (literally) for 10 weeks in order to win $10,000 in a radio contest. He promptly invested it in real estate. So successfully that he was featured in a 2004 CNN story called Tycoons in the Making. Choice quotes:
“Still, they believe wholeheartedly in real estate – so much so that in 2002 they both got licenses to sell it. Robert now works full time as a real estate agent, and Yvonne is a loan officer. ”
Freako’s comment: Great career choice.
“We have gotten lucky,” said Robert. “But we’ve also done our homework and we’ve been willing to take risks.”
Freako’s comment: Don’t count yer chickens …
“What if prices don’t continue to inflate has they have? “That would be a great time to buy.”
Freako’s comment: It didn’t work out that way, did it?
Fast forward to a recent article in the San Diego Union Tribune:
“But today’s severe real estate bust has exposed cracks in the foundation of the Cromers’ property empire. Since October, they have lost three homes in San Diego County to foreclosure – homes they bought for a combined $2.6 million, according to county deed records. They have lost three homes in other states to lenders, Yvonne Cromer said.”
Freako’s comment: Comment removed due to dangerous levels of schadenfreude.
“It was the most trying time of our lives,” Yvonne said. “We leveraged more than we ever would again.”
Freako’s comment: I thought you did your home homework. Anyhow, easy come easy go.
March 25th, 2008 at 11:41 am
^ He’s undercutting the developer, nice. This meltdown is going to be so much fun to watch!
March 25th, 2008 at 11:29 am
No LIFT at Cora
http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/rfs/618300666.html
“Please let me escape with my shirt.”
;^)
March 25th, 2008 at 10:37 am
but when the euphoria clears will we found that we’ve overbuilt the local condo market?
Without a doubt, especially given the surprisingly strong housing starts in 2008. No anticipation of a slowdown here. You’d think that Canadian bankers would go the same conferences and professional development seminars as American bankers and talk to each other. Obviously not. One is full of woe and worry, and the other is lending hand over fist.
March 25th, 2008 at 10:25 am
I apologize if you’ve all read this already, I just got it today.
(The Andex chart up to the end of 2007)
http://www.andexcharts.com/realestate.htm
March 25th, 2008 at 9:36 am
Here is a link to a little article on supply chain management, it includes a little simulation game you can try.
http://tinyurl.com/2sg75l
March 25th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Not suprised at all. Here we have half-empty condos and countless others that are not selling, and are not even listed as MLS inventory, all so developers can create an illusion of demand. Plus, assignments on sale everywhere, at least that we can see.
And building starts are as strong as ever. You don’t need to be a genius to know how this will end. Hopefully our government will buy out some of these projects and dedicate them as homeless shelters.