Reader comments on ’15 myths’ story missing.
This weekend the Vancouver Sun ran a story about the top 15 real estate myths and realities which generated a lot of reader feedback. As of last night their website had many comments, the majority of which disagreed with some of the points in that article or the way that it was presented.
Today the comment section looks different. This morning all but two comments had disappeared, with many readers here claiming to have re-submitted comments that have not showed up. I’ve personally submitted a comment that has not yet appeared on their site. Since this morning one additional comment has been posted (congratulations ‘crabman!’).
I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that this is a temporary technical problem rather than a concerted effort to censor public feedback and appease real estate advertisers. If they are experiencing technical difficulties I’m sure they would want to keep the conversation going, so please feel free to post your comments here while we wait for them to solve the problem and re-post reader comments on their website.
Controversy surrounds Vancouver Sun real estate piece » BlockGarden Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:41 am
[...] vancouvercondo.info via mtippett [...]
Controversy surrounds Vancouver Sun real estate piece « mtippett Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:32 am
[...] vancouvercondo.info [...]
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:10 am
I'm looking for the blogger that wrote this (see below). I'm working on the CBC's "The Early Edition" and would love to talk to you. Please give me a call at 604-662-6957.
Thanks.
This weekend the Vancouver Sun ran a story about the top 15 real estate myths and realities which generated a lot of reader feedback. As of last night their website had many comments, the majority of which disagreed with some of the points in that article or the way that it was presented.
Today the comment section looks different. This morning all but two comments had disappeared, with many readers here claiming to have re-submitted comments that have not showed up. I’ve personally submitted a comment that has not yet appeared on their site. Since this morning one additional comment has been posted (congratulations ‘crabman!’).
I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that this is a temporary technical problem rather than a concerted effort to censor public feedback and appease real estate advertisers. If they are experiencing technical difficulties I’m sure they would want to keep the conversation going, so please feel free to post your comments here while we wait for them to solve the problem and re-post reader comments on their website.
May 1st, 2008 at 8:50 pm
T.hu……how about you head back to Hu Land or where ever you came from?
What you are about to witness in this city is going to crush you like a stale bitter melon. Those of us who have lived in this city for a generation know exactly what I mean.
And it always happens when it is least desireable for the hypers. The Olympics are going to be a major flop leaving us with a giant bill and not nearly as many visitors as they expected due to 200.00 oil and food shortages and riots around the world. No one will care about Vancouver by then.
May 1st, 2008 at 3:38 pm
So who wants to bet we don't see anymore 'reader comment' forms on real estate stories on the Vancouver Sun site?
May 1st, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Not sure if anyone else is as interested as me in this episode…perhaps condohype, which makes me feel guilty for not posting it on his first rate, terrific, absolutely fantabulous site.
But this essay
http://www.herecomeseverybody.org/2008/04/looking…
by Clay Shirky about …about… um…, well, the ability of the internet to channel "cognitive surplus" rather than relying on TV or gin to anaesthetize the general public. He has a book about organizing without organizations, which is kinda what's going on with VHB — vancondo — mohican — Chipman (commenters) — solipsist, fish et al. Not that it's a cause or anything, but it is a bunch of folks with cognitive surplus that collaborate in a particular area to create collaborative channels of meaning. And these channels recently interacted with Old Media on the 15 Myths thing, and … well, you know the rest.
May 1st, 2008 at 10:16 am
The 15 myths must have been put up in an effort to keep people buying condos.
Most of points are irrelevant or don’t say enough to form an opinion.
#3 -Real estate prices in Greater Vancouver can’t keep going up; they’re too high already. No one can predict for certain, but I would guess that realtors and lenders would love for everyone to think this statement is untrue so they can keep on making lots of money. I bet that’s where the info came from.
#5: A bathroom or kitchen renovation is the best way to add lasting resale value to your home. Whoever wrote this doesn’t understand simple depreciation. Everything in your home depreciates in value. The appliances, the drywall, the plumbing, everything. The only thing that has been appreciating (and won’t forever) is the land value. The only renovations that pay for themselves are paint (if you do it yourself and you do a nice job), flooring, and inexpensive landscaping. Everything else is a net loser. Don’t do it for a profit. It doesn’t pay.
#9 New condominiums are commonly flipped for a profit before they have even been occupied. There are so many residences under construction right now, I believe we will soon see a vast number of condos coming on the rental market. This cannot be called either way right now. I suspect we will find it to be true soon enough.
#11 Buying a home outside the city and commuting to work is a good way to save money. It’s good while transportation is cheap. Just you wait.
#12: Buying an additional property to rent out is a solid investment. Once again this is only true in a growth economy. In a receding economy, this will produce some big losers.
#14: The bank owns my house. Semantics. Sure you own your home. If you don’t pay your mortgage, the bank take it away from you. Then they will own it. If you don’t have a mortgage and you don’t pay your taxes, the city can take your home away from you.
#15: You’ve just sold your house and have made a ton of money off it. What a silly thing to say. I think this was put in to entice people to buy with the sole intent of making money. Foolishness. These types of investors are often “caught holding the bag”.
May 1st, 2008 at 10:09 am
Has anybody tried emailing Derrick Penner or the Sun and got a response? I'd love to see answers from them if anyone gets one.
May 1st, 2008 at 9:42 am
New post to discuss statscan BC income news story here:
http://vancouvercondo.info/2008/05/bc-incomes-dro…
May 1st, 2008 at 9:34 am
The drop would be probably attributed to the large number of low paid service and retail jobs (evidenced by help wanted signs in such establishments), and the reduction in high paid forestry jobs that are fast dissappearing.
Employment in the forest industry was clobbered in the 82 recession and never recovered. The industry used the downtime during the bust to automate, and most of the laid off workers were never rehired. And the few that remain are getting clobbered again.
Mining employment is also down substantially due to automation and shutdowns such as the Tumbler Ridge coal mines and the silver-lead-zinc mine in Kimberley. Employment in secondary resource industry like the smelters in Kitimat and Trail is also down.
May 1st, 2008 at 9:01 am
.
.
Don't let the Sun off the hook just when this is getting interesting.
Tell them how you feel about hiding the comments about the 15 myths:
http://www.canada.com/share/soundoff
Or email the editor direct:
depenner@png.canwest.com
May 1st, 2008 at 8:52 am
I was also saddened to see coco has closed down her news blog. I didn't see the insulting comments, but if you're reading this coco, don't put too much stock in anonymous ranters.
May 1st, 2008 at 8:48 am
From globeinvestor gold this morning:
"BERTRAND MAROTTE
Thursday, May 01, 2008
MONTREAL — The Quebec government has lured New York finance powerhouse Morgan Stanley to Montreal with a generous package of tax credits.
Morgan Stanley says it will invest $200-million to build a technology centre in the city and create 500 jobs. More to come"
Oh well, just 500 high tech jobs not coming to Vancouver. I expect Montreal's housing price advantage had something to do with it along with Quebec tax payer generosity.
May 1st, 2008 at 8:47 am
Thanks for the comment archive 'santas helper'. Speaking of comment deletion perhaps I should be chopping comments out of here.. I like to see debate, but posts of pure insults are generally dull to read. I tend to err on the side of 'free speech', but come on people – trollbait may look tasty, but its often unsatisfying.
May 1st, 2008 at 8:32 am
NO TONY,
*Gold 3X up but not all people can buy gold.
*Fuel 3X up but not all people drive or own cars.
*Energy3X up but not all people pay the bills just home owners or some tenent as per the contract.
*Grocery 3X up but you don't have to buy all the items in the store.
*Rates of pay 3X up but not for every single employees in bc.
*Home prices 3X up but not all people own a home.
*********************************
misanthropic curmudgeon,
I am glad that you still around us here- wg2c nice to read you again.
"you bellowed?"
Yes indeed miss curmudgeon still in love and i had miss you so much- btw SONIKA screwd up every thing.WG2C cheer up!
May 1st, 2008 at 8:28 am
one more thing
check out the inventories for west van, north van, and van west
May 1st, 2008 at 8:26 am
check out inventory #'s in Paul Boenisch's website – go to Blog to get his commentary and your morning bearish grin … and don't sh!t all over him b/c he's the only one who puts it in pictures for our simple bull friends!
May 1st, 2008 at 8:09 am
"Incomes dropping in BC despite a booming economy"
So, the 'reality' is we are making less money .. and as the Sun myths/reality article states, job growth is solid and will contribute to demand, they forgot to mention we are making less money and that over half the new jobs in the last year were in construction (28K/55K, statcan).
This confirms previous information. Great to have the most recent statcan data to show up to 2005. The sun ran a similar article about 2 years ago, saying almost exactly the same things related to real income decline.
Strataman, I think during the time of the census forestry jobs were growing and that industry was booming, go figure and skilled tradepeople get paid more than the median, even labourers are up there, I think you can walk on a site for $15, less than median, but certainly not a bad wage for the skill level, that was probably much less before the boom.
While Vancouver Sun Resolves Disappearing Reader Feedback “Technicial Issues” for it’s “15 real estate myths and realities” Article/Hatchet-Job the Blog Vancouver Condo Info Has Kindly Offered to Keep the Dialog Going « Says:
May 1st, 2008 at 8:01 am
[...] While Vancouver Sun Resolves Disappearing Reader Feedback “Technicial Issues” for it’s “15 real estate myths and realities” Article/Hatchet-Job the Blog Vancouver Condo Info Has Kindly Offered to Keep the Dialog Going Filed under: You, Your Shelter — canuck99 @ 9:01 am Tags: Canada, media censorship, real estate, Vancouver [Vancouver Condo Info] Reader comments on ‘15 myths’ story missing [...]
May 1st, 2008 at 7:54 am
GV inventory of 16000 by mid May?
May 1st, 2008 at 7:51 am
led by an 11.3 per cent plunge in British Columbia
But….but…but I thought incomes went up 3x in the last 10 years for box stackers and baristas! Does that mean that one of our posters is being dishonest?
May 1st, 2008 at 7:28 am
exx "Could it be that it’s because our booming economy is based on construction? How much are these construction workers making?"
No it is the opposite most construction workers make substantially above the median so they are artificially supporting that figure. The drop would be probably attributed to the large number of low paid service and retail jobs (evidenced by help wanted signs in such establishments), and the reduction in high paid forestry jobs that are fast dissappearing.
May 1st, 2008 at 7:19 am
Incomes dropping in BC despite a booming economy
New census data this morning shows the median income for full time workers in BC is a little over $42,000 a year, which is a drop of over 3% since 2000 and it's down 11% since 1980 when you take inflation into account.
Could it be that it's because our booming economy is based on construction? How much are these construction workers making?
May 1st, 2008 at 7:14 am
With longer, lower payments, `you just have higher housing prices. Who the heck put this man in charge? Clearly he does not understand vancouver RE only goes UP UP UP.
May 1st, 2008 at 6:37 am
Sorry, that was alexcanuck
May 1st, 2008 at 6:36 am
Do not blame the poor reporter for that “15 myths”. Do you feel secure enough in your job to piss off your boss? Check these links for what can happen when you don’t write what you’ve been ordered to write!
(The second one did get her job back, probably after some serious boot-licking in atonement.) Please note I didn’t have to go vary far in time or space to find these. I have no respect for any of the MSM, nor much for what passes as reporting these days, but that’s how the game is played and anyone still working there is not going to rock the boat.
http://www.straight.com/article-107644/black-pres…
http://www.thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/2006/07/25/Vivia…
I should have realized that here is where the real response to the Sun article would happen. Please excuse me posting same in 2 blogs. I haven't seen anyone defending poor Derek Penners need to feed his family. (And pay his huge mortgage? Can anyone find out how deeply invested in RE he, or Bill Good is?
May 1st, 2008 at 6:26 am
talking of the sun – in today's issue, an article on the crappy level of CCanadian incomes…
"The report shows that the median earnings of full-time workers edged up just 0.1 per cent in 25 years to $41,401 in 2005 from $41,348 1980, and actually fell in several provinces, led by an 11.3 per cent plunge in British Columbia. All figures are based on earnings in the year prior to the census and are in inflation-adjusted 2005 dollars."
May 1st, 2008 at 5:58 am
the reporting in the Sun reflected the understanding of a 13 year old that had an afternoon to write a book report.
Sums it up very well!
May 1st, 2008 at 12:25 am
dingus: great post, absolutely spot on – very well said.
April 30th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Stagnate writes: "why be mad about the sun piece, isn’t it going to lure the last buyers into the market hastening the big crash? and bigger profits down the road for those with patience? maybe you haven’t thought it through."
Sorry, stagnate, but I think some people who frequent this blog are all too aware of what happens to the person left holding the bag. I'm all for making profit (and I try to do so on a daily basis), but I also feel strongly that the current RE environment has preyed upon not only people's innate greed, but also their lack of knowledge about financial matters. And that for me is a real shame.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
"This blog appears to be full of bitter renters who won’t accept anything but doom and gloom predictions about everything."
Our predictions aren't doom and gloom. At least, not for us. We're kinda looking forward to what bull would consider doom and gloom. Kinda like a nice Christmas. Then again, not everyone looks forward to Christmas.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
"Burden: And you are a FuckWad. How brilliant was that?!"
T.hu, But I'd like to learn more about farting. You haven't said a thing about real estate or economics but you have shown great insight into farting. Maybe you also know about burping.
Please contribute to the discussion by telling us about farting and burping and how they relate to real estate?
How is the ventellation in a 475 square foot condo? If you fart in one will a guest smell it?
April 30th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
why be mad about the sun piece, isn't it going to lure the last buyers into the market hastening the big crash? and bigger profits down the road for those with patience? maybe you haven't thought it through. maybe you think the market will just stagnate and you're bitter. maybe you're dumber than a bag of hammers.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
It's all good..
You're probably right. I used to be a real newspaper junkie, but dropped my subscriptions several years ago. I found because of the abundance of information on the internet, by the time I read the newspaper a) I was already aware of what news was in it and b) I had explored the issues that interested me to a depth that interested me and which was unavailable in the paper, leading to c) frustration that the reporting seemed stale and shallow.
Of course the shallowness of the reporting in this "15 Myths" incident is the cause of the complete flame-out in the comments. It's not that hard to become relatively well informed on any particular issue you like, and to see what the press can do with it can be a bit galling. There is now an overwhelming amount of information about the current real estate crisis, and the reporting in the Sun reflected the understanding of a 13 year old that had an afternoon to write a book report. Opinion presented as fact, the appearance of bias in asking those with an interest in real estate what they thought of the future of the real estate market etc. Shallow, hamhanded and condescending.
The second interesting feature to this debacle is of course the deleting of the comments. To me this reflects and inept dabbling in electronic media on the Sun's part. Probably many of the commenters had interacted on blogs before. There is a pretty strong ethic in the blogosphere that where comments are invited, they do not get deleted unless they are made in repeated bad faith (trolls), descend into insults and cheap shots, or use inappropriate language inordinately. In fact, the Sun had a little warning near its comments box that seemed to reflect this practice. Probably among many of the commenters was this expectation that the same ethic would pertain in the Sun's comments section. Not so, apparently. Now, perhaps the deletion is sorta standard practice, but in the blogosphere it is very bad form, particularly where the rules of participation (ie we will edit comments based on content, and may delete all of them at our will) are not stated on the site, other than a warning about bad language.
The Sun simply does not understand the medium in which it is attempting to operate. The expectation is that it is participatory, and that many of those that choose to participate will be informed and capable enough to add value. It is to a large part collaboration. However, the Sun cannot shake the unilateral "we tell you what is news" model. Wake up! Your readership — your market — is outgrowing you.
At the end of the day, the Sun left many many people with the impression that they are biased and are not open to criticism or dissenting views. Very bad, as far as journalism goes. Whether this is so, or whether it is simply inept, it does seem that this is one small sad episode in a dying medium. But what does it say that professional journalists (who apparently have a professional code of ethics! Who knew!) act this way, when independent citizens blogging in their free time hold themselves to a higher standard in terms of investigatory diligence, analysis, and openness to dialogue and dissenting views?
Anyway, time to go watch Jill Krop get frownyfaced over car crashes.