BC incomes dropping

Thanks to ‘exx’ for posting the link to this story – According to statscan the median income in BC has been steadily dropping despite the ‘boom’ we’re currently in.  Younger Canadians in general are now earning much less than their parents did and paying a greater percentage of their income for housing.

New census data this morning shows the median income for full time workers in BC is a little over $42,000 a year, which is a drop of over 3% since 2000 and it’s down 11% since 1980 when you take inflation into account.

That’s surprising given BC’s higher than average employment growth. Statistics Canada says young people seem to be having a harder time finding full-time work after getting out of school, and those who do tend to make lower wages.

So more people are at work, but they’re earning less money at a time when housing, energy and food costs are spiraling out of control. How is this going to all work out and what effect will it have on future real estate prices in Vancouver?

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Guest
frank
7 years 9 months ago

.

.

Just when I'm getting all fired up against the Sun, the bloody topic changes.

Tell'em how you feel:
http://www.canada.com/share/soundoff

or email

depenner@png.canwest.com

Member
Tony Danza
7 years 9 months ago

What does this mean for RE prices? Vancouver median RE prices will be closer to zero than 1MM in the near future. The worst part will be the increase in divorces, suicides, depression and the degentrification of many neighbourhoods in our fair city… these are all on the rise in the biggest bubble cities down south. :(

But hey, maybe our politicos and the upper crust will keep things going! Let's put a new roof on the stadium, build a couple hospitals! Let's see what else do we "need"… Meh.

Guest
-A-
7 years 9 months ago

Remember, what the Re pimps were saying- there would be no price corrections in the absense of high mortgage rates or high unemployment. "Alberta home prices sliding" In south Edmonton, a 1,263 square foot bungalow that would have gone for $390,000 last year now sells for $337,000 or a 14 per cent drop, according to a spring, national house-price survey released yesterday by Century 21 Canada. In Calgary, a two-storey, 1,850 square foot home that might have gone for $480,000 last year now sells for $420,000, or a 13 per cent decrease. http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/420148 Does anybody know what CMHC forecast was… Read more »

Guest
bank rat
7 years 9 months ago

Does anybody know what CMHC forecast was for Alberta ? Interesting question -A-, I found a posting from this Edmonton realtor who attended a CMHC housing forecast for Alberta in November 2007. Check the following quote: "Richard Corriveau, analyst from CMHC said and I quote, it's "absolutely ridiculous" based on economic fundamentals for the province that prices should fall in 2008. When Richard Goatcher – the CMHC analyst for Edmonton – got up he took a much softer approach, saying that the forecast for the Edmonton market was a 7-8% increase in 2008 "IF" some of the current inventory gets… Read more »

Guest
Anonymous
7 years 9 months ago

Gee, let's see, another day of doomsday predictions from the "Vancouver Condo" blog. What nuggets of wisdom will they debate today! How many "bulls" will they skewer today with their sharp forked tongues!

Grab a bag of Self-Loathing and pull up a chair to watch!!

Guest
bank rat
7 years 9 months ago

Here's another gem result of rear-view mirror prognostication for the Alberta housing market:

Scotiabank predicts hot Alberta real estate market

Now how accurate do you expect the predictions of all those 'local experts' in Vancouver will turn out?

Guest
WORLDS GREATEST LOVE
7 years 9 months ago

Why would you want a bag of self loathing? Does buying overpriced assets improve self-love?

Nice to see some real solid debate from the bullish side though, thanks for coming out!

Guest
-A-
7 years 9 months ago

I think an infallible indicator of how dire things will get is the venomous bull posts.

And what other marketing flops will follow after the pathetic botched debacle the despicable pimps at the Vancouver Sun pulled of last week.

Guest
Anonymous
7 years 9 months ago

Please, you people aren't being negative enough! There are idiots out there STILL buying condos and making money from them! THIS HAS TO STOP! MORE NEGATIVITY! MORE DIRE PREDICTIONS! HURRY, BEFORE ANOTHER CONDO IS SOLD!

Guest
puhlaya
7 years 9 months ago

Personally, I'm loving those venomous bull posts.

If the bulls were too busy making money in RE, they sure wouldn't be posting here.

Slow market…bulging inventory…too much free time on their hands I guess…my mistake.

Guest
Krrish2
7 years 9 months ago

Anonymous,

to stop some one from buying is *IMPOSSIBLE* because buyers with increasing income can't stop smiling……….

In 2005, there were 601,510 full-time workers raking in $100K-plus salaries — a 26 per cent jump over 2000.

The jump was even more pronounced among the 206,160 full-time workers who earned $150,000-plus salaries. Their numbers were up nearly 30 per cent in 2005.

A recent survey on vancouver condo shows that all *BATS* include sold out owners and first time bears are making more than the said 42k in the post "bc income droping"

Guest
Anonymous
7 years 9 months ago

Looks like some folks in the US are hurting big time. Wonder if we'll see some similar stories of people in Vancouver having to sell things just to get by. http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/personal/05/01/cas… Selling family treasures to pay bills NEW YORK (AP) — The for-sale listings on the online hub Craigslist come with plaintive notices, like the one from the teenager in Georgia who said her mother lost her job and pleaded, "Please buy anything you can to help out." Or the seller in Milwaukee who wrote in one post of needing to pay bills — and put a diamond engagement ring… Read more »

Guest
Digi
7 years 9 months ago

Hey shrieking anonymous, do you really believe comments here have any effect on the market? Get real dude, the market cycles on its own. If idiots or geniuses are able to make money off a boom then good for them. Just don't be startled when a boom stops and don't put all your eggs in one basket, thats the general message. I wouldn't think that would be a controversial message, but then I also wouldn't think the best way to make your point is with all caps or solid bold type, so what do I know?

Guest
beatstreet
7 years 9 months ago

"and pull up a chair to watch!!"

Watch indeed…as the fundamentals get worse by the day.

Guest
/dev/null
7 years 9 months ago

Robby C just guesstimated a 1.5% drop in prices (average? median? benchmark) for April.

That's 18% annualized in case you're keeping score. Doomsday indeed.

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

The writing is on the wall for western Canadian RE. Inventory increasing, and prices starting to fall.

The bulls here and on the Alberta blogs are getting angrier by the day! This reminds me of when tech stocks were crashing and angry investors were screaming about how it was the short sellers fault! Now angry RE investors are blaming the blogs!

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

Regarding incomes – Yes, the rich are doing quite well in North America these days. Cheap foreign labor is keeping workers pay low, and increasing corporate profits. The increased profits are resulting in BIG bonuses for people at the top, but none of that money is trickling down to the worker bees.

Guest
jesse
7 years 9 months ago

"…which is a drop of over 3% since 2000 and it’s down 11% since 1980 when you take inflation into account. That’s surprising given BC’s higher than average employment growth." What's really bizarre is how construction wages have decreased even with the supposed labour shortage and massive backlog in residential and Olympic projects. What gives? It's always the question that comes up: why Alberta has high inflation and wage growth where BC's low, even with supposedly strong employment growth? I remember having a discussion on this post on mohican's blog along this subject last year. BC: low population growth, thin… Read more »

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Scratchy
7 years 9 months ago

"why Alberta has high inflation and wage growth where BC’s low, even with supposedly strong employment growth?"

BC has a peculiar labor culture – there's a pretty strong resistance to wage increases just about everywhere. No surprise grow-ops are a huge driver of the economy. Where else is Joe Six Pack supposed to get more cash?

Guest
me
7 years 9 months ago

to be quite honest – I'm an unfortunate glaring example of the American recession, and the low wages in B.C.

For years, I've run a business where all my clients have been American – that has completely dried up

and now that I'm looking to head back into the workforce, I'm finding that the wages offered in B.C.

are literally 1/2 of what is being offered in Alberta and Ontario

so, if things don't look up around here soon, I'll be in Ontario this summer.

Guest
Anonymous
7 years 9 months ago

me, what kind of profession are you comparing salaries for? I know in dental for example the ration is reverse- people are moving from Ontario to Vancouver because they make 2x here.

Guest
gonebabygone
7 years 9 months ago

I think for most of us paying attention to our basic finances something has been rotten for sometime here in BC. My rent increased 5% this year. My increase at work (despite being told it was "stellar" performance) was only cost of living – 2%. How is that math going to work in the long run? Cost of living for average employee + keeping wages to pace = number one risk to all businessess in the GVRD. A friend who is an EMT in Toronto said that Vancouver is throwing everything they can at the wall to try to recruit… Read more »

Guest
Scratchy
7 years 9 months ago

I've been working on annual pay increases lately. The culture around me insists that 2% is standard and that nothing in heaven or earth will alter that.

Naturally actual inflation in the past twelve months has probably been at least 15% (when working in the things which actually matter like food and gas).

Net result – the reward for excellent performance this year is a 13% pay cut! Hooray!

Guest
exx
7 years 9 months ago

What happened to the guy who kept ranting and raving about gold? $850 today, sucks for those who rushed out and bought it all up at $1000+. I recall someone out there overlapped gold with VAN RE and it was remarkably similar.

Current Gold Prices – have a look at the 5 year graph, though it obviously hasn't been updated yet since it looks like the dip is at ~$880.

Guest
DJ
7 years 9 months ago

I work in TV animation, which used to be pretty busy around Vancouver – a year or so ago it seems like everyone I knew in the industry was working, but thats all gone to shit over the last year. I know more people looking for work than working now. I don't know if its the exchange rate or what but it sucks. I'm lucky to have a short contract now so hopefully it will turn around in the next couple of months so I'll have something new to move onto. I don't need a raise I just want to… Read more »

Guest
read on
7 years 9 months ago

DJ,

commiserations, but I very much doubt it will turn around any time soon. as you know the film/tv industry was hammered by the writer's strike and the dollar, and why would the americans send work back here for the new season since the whole rationale (ie: cheaper due to the $ difference) has vapourized?

Guest
me
7 years 9 months ago

anonymous – I'm in communications – and I need big head offices for full-time employment. Out of province – salaries are ranging from 65k – 80k; here the most I can hope for is $40k.

Guest
TIME
7 years 9 months ago

EXX,

I am sure you did not pick up the right graph here i got it for your eyes only

Guest
bdk
7 years 9 months ago

Krissh why are you posting as TIME?

Guest
TIME
7 years 9 months ago

BDK,

you are on 20% discount from krrish2,a approved appreciation for vancouver r.e.since-03.

Guest
punface
7 years 9 months ago

Re: Alberta wage growth. Been to Fort MacMurray lately? Or ever? Hell hole was invented for that place. Only way to get people up there is to pay those wages, and the way the tar sands are going they need people badly. Not saying it's a good thing, but it does explain the wages. As soon as they can they move away again, back to "The best place on earth", which Vancouver does resemble after that wasteland!

Guest
-A-
7 years 9 months ago

> > > If you need a good laugh visit Rob's blog. Its right out of a WWF script, Rob is defending his honor, and that of the Vancouver press, he is also extending an olive branch to the prodigal son/daughter COCO / and VHB And has offered them a place by his right side where they can be guest posters. Perhaps it has become necessary for a public televised inquiry to get to the bottom of this, It’s of historic and national importance that this matter or Rob not been fully quoted in the Vancouver Sun be cleared up… Read more »

Guest
alexcanuck
7 years 9 months ago

Sorry, that last Alberta wage growth was me. Don't know where punface came from.

Guest
punface
7 years 9 months ago

alexcanuck, I was about to say that wasn't me, but then I realized it looked like something I might say, so I was OK with it.

Guest
/dev/null
7 years 9 months ago

The script that auto-fills the "Name" in the comments section is a bit squirrelly . Not a general WordPress bug though – maybe the theme Pope is using?

Guest
not rob chipman
7 years 9 months ago

-A-, Now I'm not saying, but your comment "and has offered them a place by his right side" makes me think about cults. Hmmm.

Guest
Anonymous
7 years 9 months ago

So much of the business that happens here in BC was predicated on a weak Cnd dollar in comparison to the US dollar (when a US parent co. was at the helm). Setting up a web dev, video game dev or animation studio here (not to mention major motion picture filming here) had its obvious advantages in: a.) Talent Pool b.) Built-in discounts on operations costs Today is a new day though. Talent pool is shrinking up rapidly (wage-earners can't afford to stay or are demanding more than they ever have) & since the dollar has hovered at par, we've… Read more »

Guest
7 years 9 months ago

What happened to the guy who kept ranting and raving about gold?

You mean Michael Randalblowhard? Typical troll. When gold was going up, he loved to come here and brag about how smart and successful he was. Now that gold is tanking, he's disappeared. The same thing will happen to krrish and the other RE bulls. Once VanRE tanks, they will disappear also. We'll miss you krrish!!

Member
7 years 9 months ago

"The bulls here and on the Alberta blogs are getting angrier by the day! This reminds me of when tech stocks were crashing and angry investors were screaming about how it was the short sellers fault! Now angry RE investors are blaming the blogs!"

Kinda like Fox News and Rush Limbaugh blaming the liberal media for the US recession (in order to ensure a Dem in the Oval Office). Couldn't be wacked fundamentals, could it? Some people never learn…

Guest
Clarke
7 years 9 months ago

The news about income inequality is not a big surprise. Vancouver enjoys a reputation for affluence that was never deserved, when one actually looks at median incomes here compared to other Canadian cities. Well, we have a RE crash, declining incomes, and lots of people in deep debt. Best place on earth, indeed.

Guest

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Guest
7 years 9 months ago

There is wage resistance in Vancouver and it's to the detriment of the long-term success of businesses here. I'm in the marketing industry (no surprise) and many firms simply will not pay people what they're worth. I've worked in firms where the top four performers quit within six month of each other because of management unwillingness to move on wages. Two moved overseas and doubled their salaries; the two that stayed in Vancouver took jobs that pay roughly the same but involve less overtime and less stress. I once had a boss who gained most of his experience in L.A.… Read more »

Guest
beatstreet
7 years 9 months ago

Condohype,

Why go through the stress of attracting world class businesses here that pay good wages when we already have world class condo towers with some very fine hotels?

You see, we just import the high wage earnings, if only for three days at a time.

Guest
Anonymous
7 years 9 months ago

Could you people be any more cynical?

Member
Tony Danza
7 years 9 months ago

Could you be any more irrelevant?

Guest
Anonymous
7 years 9 months ago

I moved from Vancouver to Dublin 2 years ago, and the separation and occasional visits have given me a good perspective on this issue. With respect to wages and wage growth, Vancouver has the same problem as cities like Brighton, Nice, Berlin, Venice and Geneva. they're all nice places to live, but they in their respective countries, none of them are the place to go to make money or focus on a career (London,Paris,Frankfurt,Milan,Zurich in those countries). You can go there as a maverick, self-employed, business owner or if you are independently wealthy. Because the lifestyles there are enjoyable (ocean,lake,… Read more »

Member
Patiently Waiting
7 years 9 months ago

Is Vancouver really such a nice place to live?

I think you forget this place is dark and wet for half the year.

Also, there is no cultural intensity here. More like a cultural vacuum

I've never been to these other cities, but I find it a bit much to compare Vancouver to Brighton, Nice, Berlin, Venice and Geneva.

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