BC incomes dropping
Thanks to ‘exx’ for posting the link to this story - According to statscan the median income in BC has been steadily dropping despite the ‘boom’ we’re currently in. Younger Canadians in general are now earning much less than their parents did and paying a greater percentage of their income for housing.
New census data this morning shows the median income for full time workers in BC is a little over $42,000 a year, which is a drop of over 3% since 2000 and it’s down 11% since 1980 when you take inflation into account.
That’s surprising given BC’s higher than average employment growth. Statistics Canada says young people seem to be having a harder time finding full-time work after getting out of school, and those who do tend to make lower wages.
So more people are at work, but they’re earning less money at a time when housing, energy and food costs are spiraling out of control. How is this going to all work out and what effect will it have on future real estate prices in Vancouver?
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May 1st, 2008 at 9:53 am
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Just when I’m getting all fired up against the Sun, the bloody topic changes.
Tell’em how you feel:
http://www.canada.com/share/soundoff
or email
depenner@png.canwest.com
May 1st, 2008 at 10:02 am
But hey, maybe our politicos and the upper crust will keep things going! Let’s put a new roof on the stadium, build a couple hospitals! Let’s see what else do we “need”… Meh.
May 1st, 2008 at 10:14 am
“Alberta home prices sliding”
In south Edmonton, a 1,263 square foot bungalow that would have gone for $390,000 last year now sells for $337,000 or a 14 per cent drop, according to a spring, national house-price survey released yesterday by Century 21 Canada.
In Calgary, a two-storey, 1,850 square foot home that might have gone for $480,000 last year now sells for $420,000, or a 13 per cent decrease.
http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/420148
Does anybody know what CMHC forecast was for Alberta ?
May 1st, 2008 at 10:32 am
Interesting question -A-, I found a posting from this Edmonton realtor who attended a CMHC housing forecast for Alberta in November 2007. Check the following quote:
May 1st, 2008 at 10:41 am
Grab a bag of Self-Loathing and pull up a chair to watch!!
May 1st, 2008 at 10:43 am
Scotiabank predicts hot Alberta real estate market
Now how accurate do you expect the predictions of all those ‘local experts’ in Vancouver will turn out?
May 1st, 2008 at 10:47 am
Nice to see some real solid debate from the bullish side though, thanks for coming out!
May 1st, 2008 at 11:00 am
And what other marketing flops will follow after the pathetic botched debacle the despicable pimps at the Vancouver Sun pulled of last week.
May 1st, 2008 at 11:21 am
May 1st, 2008 at 11:40 am
If the bulls were too busy making money in RE, they sure wouldn’t be posting here.
Slow market…bulging inventory…too much free time on their hands I guess…my mistake.
May 1st, 2008 at 11:48 am
to stop some one from buying is *IMPOSSIBLE* because buyers with increasing income can’t stop smiling……….
In 2005, there were 601,510 full-time workers raking in $100K-plus salaries — a 26 per cent jump over 2000.
The jump was even more pronounced among the 206,160 full-time workers who earned $150,000-plus salaries. Their numbers were up nearly 30 per cent in 2005.
A recent survey on vancouver condo shows that all *BATS* include sold out owners and first time bears are making more than the said 42k in the post “bc income droping”
May 1st, 2008 at 11:49 am
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/personal … index.html
Selling family treasures to pay bills
NEW YORK (AP) — The for-sale listings on the online hub Craigslist come with plaintive notices, like the one from the teenager in Georgia who said her mother lost her job and pleaded, “Please buy anything you can to help out.”
Or the seller in Milwaukee who wrote in one post of needing to pay bills — and put a diamond engagement ring up for bids to do it.
Struggling with mounting debt and rising prices, faced with the toughest economic times since the early 1990s, Americans are selling prized possessions online and at flea markets at alarming rates.
To meet higher gas, food and prescription drug bills, they are selling off grandmother’s dishes and their own belongings. Some of the household purging has been extremely painful — families forced to part with heirlooms.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/30/immigr … index.html
Or immigrants struggling and unable to send money home:
Immigrant worker: No more money to Mexico
ANAHEIM, California (CNN) — As he fixes a broken sliding glass door at an apartment in Anaheim, California, Eduardo Gutierrez worries about his parents in Mexico.
He can no longer afford to send the $200 to $300 a month he had been sending back home to support his ailing father.
“I kind of feel bad that I can’t help my parents,” said Gutierrez, a legal immigrant who has worked in the United States for 20 years. “I try. But I can’t these days, and it’s a tough situation.”
Gutierrez said he earns $18.50 an hour as a glazier, installer and fixer of glass in all shapes and sizes.
But with the U.S. economy sagging, his hours have shrunk — even as his gas and grocery bills have skyrocketed along with other expenses. He’s struggling just to support his wife and three children.
Bank of Mexico, Mexico’s equivalent to the Federal Reserve, says stories like these are becoming more common. Deceleration in the U.S. construction industry resulted in $100 million less “remittances” — money from workers in the U.S. to their relatives in Mexico — in January this year, the most recent available stats. The overall figure went from $1.7 billion in January 2007 to $1.6 billion this January, according to Bank of Mexico.
May 1st, 2008 at 11:54 am
I wouldn’t think that would be a controversial message, but then I also wouldn’t think the best way to make your point is with all caps or solid bold type, so what do I know?
May 1st, 2008 at 12:08 pm
May 1st, 2008 at 12:09 pm
May 1st, 2008 at 12:14 pm
May 1st, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Watch indeed…as the fundamentals get worse by the day.
May 1st, 2008 at 12:34 pm
That’s 18% annualized in case you’re keeping score. Doomsday indeed.
May 1st, 2008 at 12:42 pm
The bulls here and on the Alberta blogs are getting angrier by the day! This reminds me of when tech stocks were crashing and angry investors were screaming about how it was the short sellers fault! Now angry RE investors are blaming the blogs!
May 1st, 2008 at 12:52 pm
May 1st, 2008 at 1:15 pm
What’s really bizarre is how construction wages have decreased even with the supposed labour shortage and massive backlog in residential and Olympic projects. What gives?
It’s always the question that comes up: why Alberta has high inflation and wage growth where BC’s low, even with supposedly strong employment growth? I remember having a discussion on this post on mohican’s blog along this subject last year.
BC: low population growth, thin margins, and government budget caps all keep wages down. Some may add to this migrant workers, who are supposedly paid lower, to this but I think the effect is not significant.
“The increased profits are resulting in BIG bonuses for people at the top, but none of that money is trickling down to the worker bees.”
Remember the separation of Richmond and Vancouver West house prices in the past 25 years — Van West has gone up 1.5X inflation, while Richmond only 1X. Partly due to densification potential but I’m sure there’s some income stratification built in as well.
May 1st, 2008 at 1:58 pm
BC has a peculiar labor culture - there’s a pretty strong resistance to wage increases just about everywhere. No surprise grow-ops are a huge driver of the economy. Where else is Joe Six Pack supposed to get more cash?
May 1st, 2008 at 2:30 pm
For years, I’ve run a business where all my clients have been American - that has completely dried up
and now that I’m looking to head back into the workforce, I’m finding that the wages offered in B.C.
are literally 1/2 of what is being offered in Alberta and Ontario
so, if things don’t look up around here soon, I’ll be in Ontario this summer.
May 1st, 2008 at 2:39 pm
May 1st, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Cost of living for average employee + keeping wages to pace = number one risk to all businessess in the GVRD. A friend who is an EMT in Toronto said that Vancouver is throwing everything they can at the wall to try to recruit paramedics to come out here (sign on bonsues, heft moving allowances etc.). No one he knows is stupid enough to bite.
May 1st, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Naturally actual inflation in the past twelve months has probably been at least 15% (when working in the things which actually matter like food and gas).
Net result - the reward for excellent performance this year is a 13% pay cut! Hooray!
May 1st, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Current Gold Prices - have a look at the 5 year graph, though it obviously hasn’t been updated yet since it looks like the dip is at ~$880.
May 1st, 2008 at 3:22 pm
May 1st, 2008 at 3:27 pm
commiserations, but I very much doubt it will turn around any time soon. as you know the film/tv industry was hammered by the writer’s strike and the dollar, and why would the americans send work back here for the new season since the whole rationale (ie: cheaper due to the $ difference) has vapourized?
May 1st, 2008 at 3:36 pm
May 1st, 2008 at 3:45 pm
I am sure you did not pick up the right graph here i got it for your eyes only
http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/au3650nyb.gif
May 1st, 2008 at 3:52 pm
May 1st, 2008 at 4:14 pm
you are on 20% discount from krrish2,a approved appreciation for vancouver r.e.since-03.
May 1st, 2008 at 4:53 pm
May 1st, 2008 at 4:55 pm
>
>
If you need a good laugh visit Rob’s blog.
Its right out of a WWF script, Rob is defending his honor, and that of the Vancouver press, he is also extending an olive branch to the prodigal son/daughter COCO / and VHB
And has offered them a place by his right side where they can be guest posters.
Perhaps it has become necessary for a public televised inquiry to get to the bottom of this,
It’s of historic and national importance that this matter or Rob not been fully quoted in the Vancouver Sun be cleared up before any other official business can be conducted.
May 1st, 2008 at 4:56 pm
May 1st, 2008 at 5:12 pm
May 1st, 2008 at 5:21 pm
May 1st, 2008 at 5:34 pm
May 1st, 2008 at 6:19 pm
a.) Talent Pool
b.) Built-in discounts on operations costs
Today is a new day though. Talent pool is shrinking up rapidly (wage-earners can’t afford to stay or are demanding more than they ever have) & since the dollar has hovered at par, we’ve lost the competitive operations advantage. I predict that business will move elsewhere….it doesn’t make sense that companies will take the hit on the bottom line to stay here.
Lots of smugness on the radio yesterday laughing at Ottawa’s #1 place in that Moneysense article but if I had to bet, smaller towns will win the next round as gen-x (et al) try to raise a family. I call it the “tire swing” quotient
Nothing new. Same old song, but we somehow forget the tune….
May 1st, 2008 at 6:21 pm
You mean Michael Randalblowhard? Typical troll. When gold was going up, he loved to come here and brag about how smart and successful he was. Now that gold is tanking, he’s disappeared. The same thing will happen to krrish and the other RE bulls. Once VanRE tanks, they will disappear also. We’ll miss you krrish!!
May 1st, 2008 at 6:23 pm
I must admit I don’t understand you obsessed Rob Chipman anti-fans. His position on the market has been pretty consistent - the market changes. Should he start espousing extreme viewpoints that he doesn’t personally believe in?
PS: Coco & VHB, I’ll give you double the nothing he’s offering you to contribute to this site! (although I suspect since you’ve both run blogs that if you want to post you’ll do it yourself).
May 1st, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Kinda like Fox News and Rush Limbaugh blaming the liberal media for the US recession (in order to ensure a Dem in the Oval Office). Couldn’t be wacked fundamentals, could it? Some people never learn…
May 1st, 2008 at 7:05 pm
May 1st, 2008 at 8:37 pm
I once had a boss who gained most of his experience in L.A. and New York. He told me that Vancouver workers lack the drive and commitment to hard work that he’s seen in those cities. I think Vancouver has that top talent but because the salary situation is so dire, many throw in the towel and refuse to give it their all. There comes a point where it isn’t worth it to put in 100% when the company is only willing to pay you 60%.
May 1st, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Why go through the stress of attracting world class businesses here that pay good wages when we already have world class condo towers with some very fine hotels?
You see, we just import the high wage earnings, if only for three days at a time.
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:01 am
May 2nd, 2008 at 7:21 am
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:39 am
With respect to wages and wage growth, Vancouver has the same problem as cities like Brighton, Nice, Berlin, Venice and Geneva.
they’re all nice places to live, but they in their respective countries, none of them are the place to go to make money or focus on a career (London,Paris,Frankfurt,Milan,Zurich in those countries). You can go there as a maverick, self-employed, business owner or if you are independently wealthy.
Because the lifestyles there are enjoyable (ocean,lake, cultural intensity) people will accept lower wages just to “enjoy” being there.
however, most people in cities are employees. And most small business in cities need large business for their services.
If these big companies don’t exist, then it is difficult for the employee or small business owner to make the same living as in a larger city.
However, due to the “nice” factor, the cost of living is as high or higher than the big city, without the wages.
I am sure half of London workers would ditch the dull grey days to move to Brighton if they could make the same wage.
On my last trip to Vancouver, I realised that, compared to a commercially focused city, it is just a big resort and retirement community, with a disporportionately large services industry.
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:14 am
I think you forget this place is dark and wet for half the year.
Also, there is no cultural intensity here. More like a cultural vacuum
I’ve never been to these other cities, but I find it a bit much to compare Vancouver to Brighton, Nice, Berlin, Venice and Geneva.
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:47 am
I would agree it is hard to compare Vancouver to those cities. What i meant to say (I also forgot to identify myself) was that Vancouver is similar in the way that all of those cities are the “beautiful-but-you-make-less-money-than-another-city” kind of place.
However,now that I think about it, Brighton is cheaper than London, Nice cheaper than Paris, Venice cheaper than Milan, etc.
Ironically, Vancouver is more expensive than anywhere else in Canada!
I really don’t want to come back, as it is just too expensive. When you consider that if you are a worker with children (as i am), you spend most of your time in an office, commuting and just dealing with your family. Not a lot of spare time for “skiing in the morning and windsurfing in the afternoon.”
so it would be easier to bare 6 months of harsh winter just so you don’t have to feel so poor on $150k per year.