Friday Free for All!
It’s time for our open-topic link round up from the past week - here’s a few stories to get us started:
-April REBGV listings grow dramatically
-Coco closes her daily economic news blog
-Caps owner has ‘no plans’ to build condos
-Coal Harbour is a weekend ghost-town
-Richmond RONA closing on Olympic tax hikes
-Forestry slump bites Prince George prices
-Live in a shipping container in Whistler
-Immigrants to Canada struggle financially
-Carney: ‘a lot of strength‘ in this economy
-Bank of Canada needs more power
-Soft landings are for the Moon
-US prices drop at fastest rate ever
-US foreclosures up 112%
So what are you seeing out there? Post your news, links and anecdotes here and have an excellent weekend!
update: The Sun finds some missing comments
note: any conversation on real estate or economics is allowed, please keep it civilized. when posting articles please only quote pertinent points and link to the original instead of pasting the entire article here. Thanks!
RSS 2.0 comments feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
May 1st, 2008 at 8:28 pm
May 1st, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Anyone know the Cloverdale market? The agent was telling me that you can rent these places for $1.90 / square foot. He says that there are no decent places to live there so rents are high. This appears over the top to me.
I don’t bother to challenge their thinking. He’s made a small fortune flipping properties over the past 3 years, and the others are so naive that i don’t want to burst any bubbles.
May 1st, 2008 at 9:06 pm
When this building completes 85% of the building will be for rent or for sale and the units that end up being occupied by first time buyers should cause a rental suite somewhere else to be vacated, are there any other projects in Cloverdale or Langley under construction?
History has shown that rental markets can loosen up rapidly once new product hits the market.
In Downtown Vancouver it only took 900 completed units to crash the rental market as Spectrum 1-4 demonstrated when it flooded the market and it’s going to be followed by another 8-10,000 more!
It is going to be a renters market downtown for years to come and decent renters will easily be able to take their pick of downtown units for $2/sq ft. which IMHO means that Cloverdale rents can’t get higher than that.
But I only know about the Vancouver market and know nothing about the suburbs or the rich foreigners who’re flocking here to pay infinity rent on places .
Are there any cafes or restaurants in Cloverdale?
maybe Cloverdale is where the action is!!
May 1st, 2008 at 9:34 pm
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:47 am
Try “can’t get higher than half that”.
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/apa/664273072.html
Man, I feel like I’m at the grand opening of the Metrotown Save-on Foods back in the 80’s.
Watching from the outside.
May 2nd, 2008 at 6:49 am
Have you read the privacy information on these polls your linking to your blog?
You may mean well, but the polling website maybe collecting all this personal information on your bloggers for their own purposes.
May 2nd, 2008 at 7:07 am
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:28 am
I go to Surrey once every two or three years and have never tried to rent out or rent anything there so I’m being like one of those baby bears on here spouting off without any evidence to back it up.
All I know about all these pre sales is that a lot of people who won’t qualify for mortgages now only have a few weeks to sell and make their “easy hundred grand” before the developer restricts assignments and it’s going to get messy.
It could be different in Cloverdale, maybe they’ve de coupled from the economy like other world class suburbs such as Yokohama….
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:31 am
Six to nine months. That is they real estate markets have gone in the past and that is how they went in the USA. When listings explode and sales drop, price drops are only six to nine months away.
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:37 am
Who is sitting out after sold?
Who is waiting for crash?
Would you like to be poor?
That saying above remind people to ACT ON TIMELY MANNERS or face the after math called afordability,just think about it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs_WjstsqV4
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:56 am
forum/viewtopic.php?t=48
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:07 am
Watching from the outside.
LOL! I remember that day very well. Apt analogy.
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:22 am
http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/ … b3e0e68aa2
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:34 am
How about introducing some new 100 year mortgages now?
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:51 am
…most Canadians don’t think we even have a Subprime market in Canada. 40 years mortage with 0 down doesn’t exists, neither Santa Clause but we still receive gifts on Christmas
http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/04/28/th … subprimes/
… are you ready to let BoC steal your money directly from your pocket?
The same crime is being committed all over the world. Time to call your MP’s, Canadians.
Carney seeks wider powers for Bank of Canada
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ … y/Business
…no recession here? Really? We are different and wrapped up in our magic bubble? Did i say bubble?
Carney ‘confident’ Canada will dodge recession
http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=485409
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:53 am
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:23 am
That’s a no brainer. They’ve got the CLOVERDALE RODEO!
http://www.cloverdalerodeo.com/
This is like the alignment of the stars be-because you have rich, oily Albertans coming to town. Maybe you can rent out your condo for a thousand dollars a weekend on Craigslist.
Olympics Shmolympics–the rodeo rides in to town every year.
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:27 am
WTF? This is a new low for spin. I didn’t think it was possible. But then entered Robyn. At least the Sun could find some dissenting opinions on the matter.
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:33 am
that would require actual work, not simply cutting and pasting press releases …
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:42 am
Oh great, our screwed-up immigration policies are creating an ethnic powder keg in our major cities. I fear for the future.
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:56 am
That reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Scott Adams:
“Reporters are faced with the daily choice of painstakingly researching stories or writing whatever people tell them. Both approaches pay the same.”
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:57 am
This building usually had a handful (less than 5) units on sale whenever I checked over the past few years. Now, when I walk by, there are always listings taped to the door. The panic is on as people are looking to get out. The pricing competition may get fierce if people are trying to sell before the crash.
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:01 am
Did you see the comment at the end of the Vancouver Sun/Missing Comments Post by someone from CBC Early Morning edition? If so, are you planning on contacting them?
(Hoping you do).
BTW. Love your blog!
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:15 am
.
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“Six to nine months. That is how real estate markets have gone in the past and that is how they went in the USA”
Oh really??
In 1981, our market started to drop about a month after inventory spiked, and it dropped more than 30% in less than a year. In 1990, it dropped more than 20% in less than a year.
US markets that that started to drop later than the earlier ones, dropped at a faster rate than the earlyer ones. That’s obviously because they were not hampered by the uncertainties of the first ones to drop.
Vancover has a history of extremes in both directions, and judging by the insanity of our bubble we will certainly live up to our reputation.
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:17 am
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:36 am
BUT check this out: Whether it was a technical problem or intentional deletion some of the comments are now back online, and look who posted the indecipherable bullish comment number 7, It’s our local regular Krrish:
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/stor … 804&k=5982
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:38 am
There must be some misunderstanding; there must be some kind of a mistake, and not the same that Phil Collins is referring to.
I am talking about the income growth.
The RE pimps have been citing income growth as one of the main drivers of real estate prices, and now it appears that there must have been some kind of miscalculation.
Interesting, maybe we aren’t running out of land
either, and maybe the rich immigrants aren’t so rich, and maybe Bill Good, Muir, Pastrick and others have been given the wrong information, what other possible explanation could there be?
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:40 am
This is obviously false, everyone knows that rich immigrants are flooding our shores and snapping up multiple 400 sqft condos in downtown Whalley!
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:57 am
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:00 pm
.
Thanks for the re-opened Vancouver Sun link pope.
However, I could’nt help but notice that the comments are more selectively chosen than ever.
It might be worth the effort to test their biased scrutiny and report back to us….Thanks
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Current Price $339,900 Listed Feb 1/08
Original Price $339,000 Entered Feb 7/08 Feb 11/08 $345,000 Status Chgd May 1/08
Feb 1/08 $339,000
Sale Date Apr 22/08 Sale Price $326,800
This one sounds like a 4% drop and there are a lot of condos around SFU ….
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:10 pm
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:18 pm
That’s why you’ll always hear more ‘pro-market’ sentiment than caution. Of course that leads to those hillarious graphs showing cheerleaders like Learah proclaiming a market bottom regularly as US house prices continue to crash, or those shockingly bad local news predictions on the Vancouver market just before previous crashes.
That said I’d still vote for Pope to give them a call, it would be great to hear this issue get some airtime.
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Krrish2Wed, Apr 30, 08 at 03:49 PM
Almost in decade-In vancouver rates of pay has increased three time higher,fuel-energy cost is up three times,grocery prices are up three times,gold prices are up three times so does the average home prices in Vancouver up three times,unemployment rates are down,interest rates are low,low,low and another cuts are on the finger tips, immigration and migration showing no sign of slow down,no more land in vancouver.no downturn in decades to come in vancouver bc bpe
There you have it folks incomes have trippled, in the last decade, and I guess the rest of the post holds true as well.
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Just in case they have another ‘problem’ I’ll post the comments that I can currently see (without duplicates) onto digi’s post:
forum/viewtopic.php?t=52
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:50 pm
http://tinyurl.com/5yune7
Although it is not clear what is being measured in the average detached price, it is down 4% from March (i.e. annualized drop of about 50%).
I wonder if the local rags will now report that the average price of detached homes will be $220,000 by 2010 to counter their claim of a few months ago that it would hit one million. Something tells me not…
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:16 pm
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Sorry bulls, game is over. Sell, sell, sell now before the real panic hits in a couple of months. All markets move on greed and fear, looks like panic & fear have begun to arrive. Bottom line, if you are a seller now, cut your price immediately by 10 percent and beat the rush to the exits and maybe you will find sucker to buy your place!!!!
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:59 pm
“residential sales continue to be strong, but there is a lot more choice on the market today”.
That’s an interesting perspective given that sales fell 5% yr/yr according to the article.
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:23 pm
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:35 pm
I’m expecting the downturn, but I’m don’t see the “smoking gun” in this report, or, to be honest, in paul boenisch’s fabulous data… yet.
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:44 pm
What? April has 30 days every year, unless you move to bizzaro-universe.
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Amazing what some bulls will stoop to, but reducing the number of days in April has to top all.
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:10 pm
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:15 pm
I think days of business was meant to be implied.
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:19 pm
April had 22 business days (Mon to Fri) in 2008 & 19 days in 2007 (taking into account the easter holiday).
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:31 pm
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:47 pm
May 2nd, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Spectrum!….I loved it.
May 2nd, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Still, I’m a sceptic, that’s why I’m here after all. June 1st, we will know for sure by then.
May 2nd, 2008 at 5:46 pm
-
“April 2008 averaged detached price at $880,844″
VANCOUVER SUCKS this is outrageous, they must think they are Moscow here lolol
May 2nd, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Chinese realtors don’t celebrate Easter nor do the ever stop working
May 2nd, 2008 at 6:53 pm
;~
May 2nd, 2008 at 7:00 pm
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Statscan report is for british columbia not for
vancouver alone,42 k is for average british columbians not for individuals.
In 2005, there were 601,510 full-time workers raking in $100K-plus salaries — a 26 per cent jump over 2000.
The jump was even more pronounced among the 206,160 full-time workers who earned $150,000-plus salaries. Their numbers were up nearly 30 per cent in 2005.
here you got base and increased percent in half decade for bc bring it to vancouver and double the increased percentage to full decade,you can feel lots vancouverites income has been trippled in a decade include mine.
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:23 pm
mr b $27,040 in 1997 $104,000 in 2007. there might be some of bears with data but no body like to help each other is there any body to show us some light on this issue?
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:26 pm
Average tax filer went from 38k 1993 to 52k 2003, that does not compute with your usual lies.
Also that is not inflation adjusted.
The truth is you RE pimps outright lie.
Incomes in Vancouver are lower than most cities in Canada, and housing costs are one of the highest in the world.
The metrics are worse than just before the crash of 81
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Which means he’s now earning one third of what was making and has to pay three times as much for stuff as he did in 1997.
A)How does Mr.A afford his mortgage?
As I just proved all wages will go down 70% in 2009
vancouver bpe
also watch mr.b go from $30,000 to $9,990.
someone shed some light on this
Prices go down for decades to come
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:56 pm
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:02 pm
every one want to over come on each other only together we can make a difference.
Stat from statscan is to show how average people are earning their living if you convert this 42k into 150k still 4.5 million people are not going to buy $38 million worth of pent house on 34th floor.
lots of cheap or expensive things are available on earth but not all people are in need of them nor we have the ability to make 4.5 million houses in bc.
btw people with low income also own their own house or appartments lots of owners are paid off, what you looking in specific is a sq.ft. otherwise story is different compare to income ratio. people are buying homes -thats why market is going up ,if you based your fact on statscan report market should be dead after 1982,this is may 2008.
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:08 pm
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:13 pm
1. Vancouver Sun for reposting the comments that totally trash their garbage of last week;
2. Vancouver Sun for publishing an article entitled “Greater Vancouve Real Estate sales slip, listings jump” (intead of spinning some bs positive title - even though the statistics within the article are spun to make you dizzy); and
3. Krrish2 for admitting to being an idiot
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:36 pm
It’s not me i think some one looking for more rant i will put mise in his/ her pant!!
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Why isn’t THIS in the Vancouver Sun?
This is HUGE!!!!!
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:48 pm
But thanks krrish for all your entertaining posts. I’m quite looking forward to whatever drivel you choose to post in the coming crash…
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:12 pm
how you doing what a entery with bang!!!!! bombarding with pimps and child abuse even after long absence the sense is not in control,where have you been?
I was looking at chilko but found out you are out from there to some new building.
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:31 pm
David Lereah - NAR Chief Economist - MAY 2006
“Coming off a prolonged period of record sales, housing is taking something of a breather this year. Even so, interest rates remain historically low, we’ve added about 2 million jobs over the last 12 months and the economy continues to grow – that will sustain healthy levels of home sales in 2006, but they’ll stay below the peaks experienced during the last two years.”
Gregory Klump - CREA Chief Economist - JANUARY 2008
“The Canadian housing market in 2008 will pull back from the breakneck pace set in 2007, but this is still forecast to be the second-busiest year on record in almost all provinces, with residential unit sales reaching an estimated 512,705 units. Average prices for MLS® home sales are expected to keep setting records in
2008, although prices will increase more slowly as the market becomes more balanced. In most provinces, the market will nevertheless remain historically tight; with the tightest markets being in Saskatchewan and Manitoba. Nationwide, the average residential price is forecast to increase 5.5 per cent to about $322,700.”
May 3rd, 2008 at 4:54 am
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/stor … c2&k=66458
Obligitory Spin: “It took an average of six fewer days to sell a home than it did in the previous year,” Watt said. “That is probably as telling as anything.”
May 3rd, 2008 at 6:47 am
Somerville added that the normal model of an economic cycle heading into a downturn sees sales drop while new-listing activity plateaus.”
Executive summary: the bubble has burst.
Just can’t come out and say it, can you Tsur?
May 3rd, 2008 at 7:36 am
Canadian Giants going to develop a huge net to trap walmart because walmart have difficult location in the menu that would be hard for cunsumers to reach there and Canadian Giants will take advantage of that they are going to do the following.
1.Each Giant will establish 20 small store at the size of an extra food store or market place in downtown or west side or like the one you can see on your way to whistler.
2.All employees at CG will get 10% permanent discount to shop in their stores.
3.Because of these new net D.C. jobs are their to stay plus the rates of pay will increase more every 500 hours by $1.10- for all those extra stores Gaints will creat more jobs for all new store good for the public and big competition for Giants.
May 3rd, 2008 at 7:47 am
.
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Wow, just wanted to say you are doing a fine job at “the
other” site, keep it going buddy, this time looks like you got “sly” and are using the FOX program and the dogs can’t censure you.
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:20 am
You dropped the price! on the Rupert joint, what kind of a sales professionals are you guys?
Did you point out to the potential buyers:
We are running out of land,and of course BC’s economy is the world’s economic engine. with explosive income and population growth.
East Vancouver is the preferred destination of the world’s jet set crowd because it has Trout Lake, Commercial Drive, and oh yeah, a short drive, from the Rupert place, is Victoria and Hastings, where you can get a hooker and a bag of weed, for under $100 CDN of course.
Maybe you guys aren’t the professinal you claim to be. You are just “order takers” at the first sign of a sales challenge you drop the price.
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:57 am
Let me get this straight: you went to my old building and checked up on me? Jesus Christ you are one creepy little gimp.
May 3rd, 2008 at 9:00 am
May 3rd, 2008 at 9:15 am
so are you two de-coupling?
May 3rd, 2008 at 9:52 am
Riverbend developer sells off apartments guaranteed for a loan, so seniors may lose homes.
“Craig Lochhead, a director of Riverbend’s developer, CB Development, said the Maillardville apartment units were used as guarantees for a loan from CareVest and, now, company assets are being liquidated to satisfy its debt.
“As we were trying to save Riverbend, basically, we continued to pledge assets that we owned,” Lochhead said Wednesday. “We’re very sad that not only are those people being displaced from their homes but that we’re losing another million dollars worth of real estate that we owned as a result of Riverbend.””
May 3rd, 2008 at 10:06 am
May 3rd, 2008 at 10:23 am
Neil Chrystal, President & CEO, Polygon Homes Ltd. (Moderator)
Eric Carlson, President & CEO, Anthem Properties Ltd.
Jon deC Evans, President & CEO, Trilogy Properties Corporation
Steve Laver, President, Playground Limited Partnership
Ward McAllister, President & CEO, Ledingham McAllister Properties Ltd.
The only unbiased commentator missing was Bill Good.
May 3rd, 2008 at 10:24 am
Change of ownership does not impair tenancy rights. The renters can only be required to leave for a new owner-occupier and there are required procedures to be followed.
The article doesn’t say, but I would think the provision of rental housing was required by the city as a condition of granting the development permit. No developer would provide rental units otherwise - the yield is too low. If so, it’s likely that the new owner would be bound by this too.
I get the distinct impression that the new owner is trying to scare the seniors into buying because they don’t want to, or may not be able to, list the properties on the open market.
May 3rd, 2008 at 10:43 am
Good point, the journalist could have done a better job research the tenants rights etc. I found it curious that rights weren’t mentioned in the article. I think CB Development still owns the units so it must be them (and their realtors) who are engaging in the scare tactics.
These seniors need an advocate who knows the law.
May 3rd, 2008 at 10:45 am
.
“Just can’t come out and say it, can you Tsur?”
Actually, he is saying it in “professor speak”, but with all those credentials, should’nt he have been able to warn us a couple of years ago?
BTW, you guys seen that shitbox Chipman is trying to unload for three quarters of a mil in east Van? In east Van for cryin out loud!
May 3rd, 2008 at 11:08 am
May 3rd, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Does anyone here know where Krissh works or lives?
May 3rd, 2008 at 12:15 pm
.
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About that Chipman listig:
Three quarters of a mil for a teardown on a busy street for cryin out loud!
May 3rd, 2008 at 12:26 pm
May 3rd, 2008 at 12:43 pm
In 2005, there were 601,510 full-time workers raking in $100K-plus salaries — a 26 per cent jump over 2000.
Most of these are supported by RE bubble prices and construction, so enjoy it while it lasts, you’ve probably got another six months (if you’re in RE services) and maybe a year or two if you’re in construction (small developers probably have six months before they start going BK).
May 3rd, 2008 at 12:44 pm
May 3rd, 2008 at 12:44 pm
I am pretty ambivalent about Somerville - I think he is probably smarter than I give him credit for and probably (hopefully) recognized the unsustainable conditions of the past few years as such.
At the same time, he is certainly hemmed in by the fact that he works at Sauder’s Centre for Urban Economics and Real Estate…which is underwritten by the Real Estate Foundation of BC. Likewise for his professorship …underwritten by the same people. One shouldn’t bite the hand that feeds them.
May 3rd, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Towards the middle of the latest entry you will see a measure of Aussie house prices that pulled back in 2004 then actually rose just as the USA hit its peak. Now, according to some of the local bloggers I read at the globalhousepricecrash forum, it seems things in Oz may be leveling out again according to first quarter sales figures.
May 3rd, 2008 at 1:11 pm
May 3rd, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Best advice to provide your client is to price their property sharply. Aways be ahead of the curve. In a falling market, you need to price below market.
May 3rd, 2008 at 1:36 pm
There were quite a few academic economists that identified the RE bubble early on in the US, you can find out who they were on the HBB. Somerville is a shill for the REIC and couldn’t tell a fundamentally broken RE market from his a$$hole. Of course once things go to hell he’ll indentify the bubble and prognosticate to the upside.
Disclaimer: I have worked with Somerville in an academic capacity and found him to be as intellectually sharp as a rubber mallet.
May 3rd, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Interesting. I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. I will admit to Google Scholar-ing him…his publication and citation record is a pretty underwhelming.
May 3rd, 2008 at 1:42 pm
I actually think I saw him leave my old building. If he’s the guy I think, he’s sort of a chubby, doughy Indian / Asian guy in his 20s with sorta longish greasy disheveled hair and a truly retarded expression.
Seriously.
And the weird thing was I kind of thought it might be him at the time,
Hey ‘tard if that really was you, tell your mom I said hi.
Oh and nice jiggly man - boobs.
May 3rd, 2008 at 2:38 pm
My source tells me he lives with his Mum and walks around Marinaside telling people he’s a DJ.
May 3rd, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Hey ‘tard if that really was you, tell your mom I said hi.
Oh and nice jiggly man - boobs.
Excellent commentary about RE. Totally pertinent.
May 3rd, 2008 at 3:19 pm
BTW
The Vancouver Sun says:
“Your chances of having your comments posted are much better if you use proper grammar, spelling and punctuation. ” So they’ll post fictitious and incoherent chubby retarded trolls comments but won’t post mine?
May 3rd, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Point Grey, 3rd May, last three years:
2006 - 21
2007 - 31
2008 - (drumroll) 65
Small sample, but I’d say this was VERY significant.
Also note lots of SFHs being built in this area, in groups of two or three at times. So, even more inventory is coming. Not to mention those homeowners who are now going to try and realize those paper ‘gains’ before retirement.
So much for the high-end being more resilient.
May 3rd, 2008 at 3:28 pm
“My wife is a realtor … since when do they care about “business days”. They do more business on weekends than during the week.’
1. The RE board work week, ought not matter. They simply process more the days after long weekend. It does matter when the month closes on weekend or long weekend.
2. Don’t forget that offers and acceptance are made before completion (which is when the sale is booked). I can’t see a shortened month affecting completions. It would simply be moved back or forward a few days.
3. What I can see happening is that offer and acceptance becomes delayed. Realtors may be willing to work Easter and what have you, but I don’t think house hunters do.
May 3rd, 2008 at 6:37 pm
http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/thornberg.html
Interestingly Thornberg left the business school in 2006 to pursue, cough, “other opportunities”.
Of course people like Shiller and Krugman were also calling the bubble at the same time, but they were tenured ivory tower academics in economics departments (as opposed to business schools), so the bulls could just write them off as out of touch.