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May 19th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
first name come to my mind was an idea of making chat room out of this
a conversation would imply intellectual heft on both sides which unfortunately excludes you from the equation….
May 19th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
For read,
It has nothing to do with the economy here in BC or even in Canada. It’s the growth of other places that drives up the consumption of what requires to build anything. If another 5% of people in China can afford to have two meal in a day, food prices is going up right away.
It’s happening. The wealth is shifting and being generated by a different side of the world.
AND YOU WILL BE AFFECTED!
May 19th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
One last point and a big point I would like to point out repeatedly. Commodity price VS Currency inflation!!!! That is a big driving force. The cost of nature resources and energy will never go down, yet money can be printed at a much faster speed. That is the big picture guys!!!
You have to look at a reasonable long term. Think in your mind and look around.
There is nothing more obvious. Don’t let this so called “expensive” real estate price in Vancouver fool you. Of course, where you buy that opens up to the international market is hugely important. Downtown, for example, is one of the best bet you can have.
May 19th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
And for those who think the economy isn’t going downhill…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7408620.stm
May 19th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Specuvestors losing their shirts renting at a massive loss…in Montreal.
Yes, there is a housing bubble in Eastern Canada too.
http://tinyurl.com/68goms
I found this on Ben Jones’ The Housing Bubble Blog:
http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/?p=4531
“The Staleys’ problem is that the monthly cost of the mortgage and taxes on the two rental properties currently exceeds the rent by a fairly hefty sum. They collect $3,367 each month and owe $5,600 to the bank.”
May 19th, 2008 at 11:57 am
“Cease selling that dream, and that’s an order” article regarding Bear Mountain Developers.
http://web.bcnewsgroup.com/por.....amp;more=0
Here’s an interesting excerpt:
““I wouldn’t call it rare,” said Ken Fraser, executive director of investigative services with the Commission, of the order. “If you look at our website, we’ve had a number of orders.” In the past two years, 17 orders have been handed down for a number of issues with different developments.
“If we find out a material change has occurred in financing, or corporate structure, and we haven’t be advised, we would issue a cease and desist order to make sure the public was protected,” Fraser told BE.
“Our primary purpose is to ensure the public is aware or given every opportunity about the property prior to entering a purchase agreement.”
“Our experience,” he added, “ has been that people get caught up in buying a condo, or property, especially first time buyers.
They tend to rush into things”
May 19th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Blueskies,
Even i was wondering last week as the game is over what should be the use of this site for future,first name come to my mind was an idea of making chat room out of this, while i was thinking on more detail the pope has given this site a new definition, now i have come to know that bulls or bears are not making any sense because this site has turned to replace the popular tv series called..
“DOG EAT DOG”
May 19th, 2008 at 10:55 am
it is with the greatest of pleasure that i can hit “thumbs down” on a variety of posts that come from the same troll…. excellent tool!
May 19th, 2008 at 10:52 am
too obvious to be non sense that bulls with -5 on bear blogs does not make any sense -they have only one achievement” so far has not been proven wrong in the history of blogs”
May 19th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Krissh/SATV/anonymous/whomever – I know you enjoy trolling here and getting pointed retorts from the regulars, but in all seriousness they’re right when they say you don’t make any sense.
It’s not your grammar and sentences (which you intentionally mangle to some extent) – you just have difficulty clearly organizing your thoughts to make a point. It makes you seem unintelligent and so nobody bothers to read what you have to say. One can only assume that you’re not able to come up with your own considered opinions and so you are just parroting the bull canon.
Do yourself (and us) a favor and try to think through what you want to say before to type a comment. People here are obviously happy to debate facts in a rational way but they (and I) just disregard what you have to say since we can’t understand it.
May 19th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Patriotz,
your link is nothing new to talk about- argument of Toronto vs Vancouver has been beaten hundred times in the past thanks to be ignorent.
Vancouver got an edge over Toronto for the following reason…..
1.LIMTED LAND MASS in Vancouver while Toronto is largest city of Canada.
2.BEAUTIFUL WEATHER CONDITION in Vancouver while Toronto is snow shoveling city.
3.UNEMPLOYEMENT RATES are lower than Toronto.
4.STRONG ECONOMY IN B.C. while ONTARIO is vulnerable from the eco.dtr.of USA.
5.MIGRATION IS TOWARDS VANCOUVER from other provinces include Toronto,Ontario not from Vancouver to other cities and provinces.
6.VANCOUVER is no.1 livable city while Toronto is at 5.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:51 am
Ted, I am not sure where you get the information new immigrants choose Toronto over Vancouver when moving to Canada.
How about Statistics Canada, Bozo:
http://www.statcan.ca/english/.....003000.pdf
Toronto consistently get over twice as many immigrants as Vancouver. Look at page 16.
You know it’s the endgame when the bulls move from non-quantitative arguments to just lying. Go try out your BS on the suckers you’re trying to sell your flip to, not us.
May 19th, 2008 at 12:44 am
What?
“EUROPEANS and BRITISH have been buying in VANCOUVER and they are expending to east vancouver along with CAMBIE to COMMERCIAL drive”
Multicultural faces has been changed on large scale on east side
Are the British causing Little Italy to become more multi cultural?
When did Cambie to Commercial Drive become a sub area to east vancouver?
Krissh why are you posting under anonymous?
Do you want readers to think there’s another airheaded incoherent and irrelevant retarded bull out there?
Why is your Mums condo for sale if you think the market is going to go up so much?
May 18th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Really very sorry i have missed to include the name of friends from EUROPE/UK.
“EUROPEANS and BRITISH have been buying in VANCOUVER and they are expending to east vancouver along with CAMBIE to COMMERCIAL drive”
Multicultural faces has been changed on large scale on east side lots of Torontorians,Albertans,and Europeans along with British friends are taking possession on eastside,It’s getting hot infront of brand new bus stops and bluelines are displaying signs that bus is full wait for next,I have notice while parking my car 10 meter ahead of bus stop,there could be a sign on bus in future “no body can get off”
“THERE IS NO DOWNTURN PLEASE”
May 18th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
“what about the underground economy” Yep and it would make my day if they were legalized and paid taxes! Then we would have a real economy!
May 18th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
“As far as I can see there is no economy other then real estate here”
what about the underground economy? pretty sizable, isn’t it?
May 18th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Krissh “Very Well Said.”
Nice try!
May 18th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Jun,
Very Well Said.
Ted,
you are confused by the landcor statement,what landcore is trying to say “the sales that happen in bc- The majority from Alberta, followed by the US.
What jun is trying to say most people who will countinue to keep the habit as back bone of Vancouver Real estate they are from bc in your (ted)sense they should be immigrant first,Jun is targeting indian and chinese genration you are targeting immigrant,I can combined all three-you,jun,and landcore.
“Investor/Buyers from with in provinces of Canada(migration)Usa,and overseas(International)have been buying in Vancouver and they will countinue keep on buying in decades to come,
Note:You guys are familiar with above statement.
May 18th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
jun; “I am also pointing out what I believe the market (Vancouver and globally) will be like” jun I too believe in the globalization of the world economies, however the strange thing is there are no substantial international or for that matter even national corporations based in Vancouver. (By substantial I mean employ a couple of thousand persons around the world). As far as I can see there is no economy other then real estate here, and that particular economy does not contribute to a stable community. Head offices located elsewhere (including Toronto that has several)do not pay taxes here for hospitals schools, roads etc. Sure a few investors may pay some property taxes, but for all the hoopla about rich investors contributing to the economy you would think there would be some new hospitals being built in Vancouver (NOT Surrey which is apparently NOT the destination of rich investors).
May 18th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
jun = latest krissh clone.
May 18th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Does anybody here remember which one of these dogs?
tqn, newflash, realitycheck, aaron, said there would never be a crash in Vancouver because unlike Vegas etc, inventory would never reach 17,000?
Also, I note CMHC and the usual RE pimps are still predicting single digit price appreciation for 2008 and 2009 for the Calgary area, although prices are already down double digit in Calgary and Edmonton.
If any of the dogs from the Chipman kennel are here maybe they can explain.
May 18th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Ted, I am not sure where you get the information new immigrants choose Toronto over Vancouver when moving to Canada. Also, what kind of immigrants usually prefer Toronto over Vancouver (age, wealth and etc…)
“Most buyers in BC are from BC.” Does that include immigrants? Most of the buyers do live in Canada. What exactly is the standard of “buyers in BC from BC.”
Still, the point has nothing to do with my point of a lot of buyers being Asians and will be more in the future. I am making the prediction of the future, now to 10 years.
I am also pointing out what I believe the market (Vancouver and globally) will be like. There are a lot more variables and global environment factors that will influence the future of Vancouver real estate market.
Still, I believe the price will go up. It will be a good commodity against inflation as well.
Thank you,
May 18th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Strataman, however elderly family immigrants do play an economic role by taking care of children while the parents are working (don’t have to rely on our horrible daycare system). So they are contributors to the economy and don’t really need to speak English to do so, and their other family members do pay taxes that go towards the health system.
What I’m more concerned about is all the young adults I meet these days who can’t speak English at all. I assume they are family immigrants because they certainly didn’t get in on their language skills. They are basically stuck in jobs within their ethnic community that probably pay minimum wage. Meanwhile, the labour shortage continues.
jun, if only immigrants were so successful as you say. Nope, many are going down in the crash because they are naive about the true value of our real estate.
May 18th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Jun, why do most new immigrants moving to Canada choose Toronto over Vancouver? Is it more desirable?
Landcor says most buyers in BC are from BC – the vast majority of buyers from outside BC are represented by Albertan buyers, which make up less than 5% of buyers.
If the people buying were not over-extended locals, but instead super-rich people for whom money is no object, why are the majority of them opting for new 40 year mortgages?
Just trying to keep an open mind and question assumptions.
May 18th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
“A developer built 19, million dollar homes out in Shuswap -the lot was zoned for commercial”
This is the same developer that wanted to build 219 townhouses beside the salmon spawning area of Adams River on the Shuswap and it was haulted 6 / 0. I think he thought he could do anything he wanted and could bully the district authority. He was pre-selling those before he had CSRD approval.
As for the commercial area you ask about, my friend has a home directly beside the 19 houses. The project, Carmel Cove, has had pre-sales and has been under construction for several years now. I have heard they are so close together they cannot be passed because of the fire codes. It was zoned commercial as a campground RV property to my knowledge and he developed without making any proposals to the district. It is a rural area with limited fire protection. I understand that is one of the main problems as well as the zoning and his attitude towards local populus and district authorities alike.
May 18th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
OKAY, here is the BIG message. Vancouver real estate price will continue going up.
The reasons are here:
1. Vancouver is open up straight to Asia. China and India people in this century will be making the big big money. However, people who live in Vancouver locally will continue to wonder why they have so much money. Well, they will have more and more money!! and they are not afraid of buying!!
2. Commodity price all over the world. “Everything” is going to cost more in this age. “Everything”, but money (currency). Drastically, the cost of building the same building will cost much higher. You have China having crisis with the earth quake. They are going to buy extra extra resource with whatever it costs. It will beat up the commodity price even more.
US dollar weakness. The weakness is going to drive up the commodity even further.
3. The resource in Canada. Canada, itself, has a very low population, big land and lots of nature resources. Canada has a huge potential, and a lot of people in the world knows that. What do you think just the people in India and China are going to think?
I have pointed out a few things that I hope you are going to really think about clearly. Be open minded, the globe is a lot bigger and changing a lot faster now. Don’t trap yourself and being stubborn. Do what you can still and be wise.
May 18th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Patiently Waiting “Why isn’t learning an official language required?” It is for the first “primary applicants” I believe, but under the “family class immigration” which the primary applicant then uses to get aged or non skilled close relatives into Canada the language criteria is no longer required for compassionate reasons. (Age and/or education making it virtually impossible to learn eng/french). There would be tremendous political fallout if immigration were to “break up families”. As far as I know there is not one political party in Canada that would do this. Besides health care is totally subsidized for the relatives by Canada especially if they are under the minimum income. Canada is a soft touch and we will likely see our entire health care system collapse within a decade. Side note(My wife is an immigrant, highly skilled and fluent in English, but her relatives have no desire to come here being highly success full in their original country which is where we met when I lived there).
May 18th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Part of the lack of success of these family member immigrants is their poor English skills, if they speak English at all (or French). This is not good for the economy or for those immigrants. Why isn’t learning an official language required?
May 18th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
“Canadian immigration policy has emphasis on professional and business immigration,”
What a load of bollocks. But I suspect most Canadians share this misconception.
The fact is that only 18% of immigrants are skilled immigrants. Every single one of the others is a family member. That’s why more than half of immigrants live below the poverty line, and it’s why national median income has been flat for years.
And what’s more, immigration doesn’t even improve our demographic profile. Why? Because the average age of an immigrant is HIGHER than that of the average Canadian.
May 18th, 2008 at 7:35 am
-A-
This is something I was thinking about a while back. The list of inventory in Vancouver only includes actual completed places. Does anyone have any information on how the assignments market is faring currently? Are there a lot of people desperately trying to ditch assignments? Are new projects getting scrubbed for lack of pre-sales?
May 18th, 2008 at 5:25 am
If the market price of the condo falls below the pre-sale price it will be impossible for the buyer to obtain financing. I’m not a lawyer, but I think this will make it difficult for the seller to pursue any damages from the buyer, apart from keeping the deposit, due to force majeure. If anyone out there is more informed on this let us know your take.
Note that the shenanigans in Florida (reported in NYT) were about attempts by the buyers to get their deposits back due to alleged deficiencies on the part of the seller.
May 18th, 2008 at 1:27 am
“i would expect ‘walkaways’ will be fairly common.”
I think many will find that “walkaways” are much more difficult when prices are falling and they read the fine print to find out what the contract actually stipulates.
May 17th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
That article on Bob Rennie was so funny! Oh God, if foreign investors are that dumb, how did they ever make their fortunes???
Anyway, I, like many of you can just see it all happening before it does. It’s like Nostradamus without the opiates.
Keep buying bulls!! Buy and build some more!!!
May 17th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
What sold out was options to purchase, not the property itself.
which may be reneged on when the going gets tough.
i would expect “walkaways” will be fairly common.
May 17th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
As recently as a couple weeks ago a new condo development sold out in hours.
Well it didn’t actually. What sold out was options to purchase, not the property itself.
The presale market and the real market are two different things.
There seems to be a logical disconnect between the two, but what else is new.
May 17th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
patriotz says:
“Anyone who buys a property with the expectation that the market price will be at a particular level at any given time in the future is a speculator, whether they live in it or not. And I have no sympathy for speculators.”
What about someone who sells a property with the expectation that the market will go down? Also a speculator? Maybe, but a prudent one.
May 17th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
” Wonder how many divorces this bubble is going to cause?”
I am willing to bet there will be an inverse correlation between devorce rates and price appreciation.
Divorce will be a quick and easy face saving strategy, heck some of the couples may even get back together after the dust settles. (if the sex was good)
May 17th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
“The way to protect yourself from market or life contingencies when buying a house is not to take on mortgage payments greater than what you can rent out the house for. It’s that simple.”
True. I think the word to use for the current situation is “tragedy”.
May 17th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Thanks for the mid-month update on pauls inventory graph umdesch – Listings are taking off like crazy! I’m seeing tons of open houses out there today, but funny I’ve got no urge to go look at them. Anyone else been to any? Are they busy? I suppose if sales keep dropping off they could always blame the problem on good weather, back out to the sun with me!
“Anybody else here know people leaving Vancouver?” « Vancouver Real Estate Anecdote Archive Says:
May 17th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
[...] are leaving Vancouver because “the economics don’t make sense to them”. This from Digi at Vancouver Condo Info May 16th, 2008 at 8:48am [...]
Yes, we are pretty - Now let’s talk about something else - « Vancouver Real Estate Anecdote Archive Says:
May 17th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
[...] May 2008 · No Comments Yes, Vancouver is a beautiful city. This from ‘distraction’ at Vancouver Condo Info My 16th, 2008 8:20am [...]
May 17th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Augh…I’m getting a little sick of hearing about this Bob Rennie guy. It sounds like even the author of the article is drinking the Koolaid.
Are you kidding? Sounds like he was swimming laps in it before he drank the pool dry. That article was utterly nauseating.
May 17th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Is there a graph comparing inventory and sales over a few years? I like to have someting uplifting to put on my wall. That would be for Vancouver area, nvan, westvan, coquitlam surrey, squamish, coal harbour. The beauty of seeing the lines side by side and the widening gaps.
Beat that picasso!
May 17th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
anecdotal “came back from a beautiful day at the beach, met a couple in the elevator in my building, was an open house and it appears they bought. Guy (late 40′s) asked how I liked the building, after the usual chit/chat he said he was really worried that he was going to regret it (knew something about the bubble talk I presume), his wife glared at him and said if we don’t buy we are going to be left in the dust. I muttered yeh is a dicey time to be buying, he kinda blanched and she glared at me!
Wonder how many divorces this bubble is going to cause?
May 17th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
rich immigrants will save our bacon?
don’t think so
most of the buying is by locals with a few Oilbertans thrown in …in a downturn there will be very few to step up and carry the load.
May 17th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Good lord, that’s a silly article.
And I thought the author’s name was familiar. My friend’s ex is partners (professional partners) with him. It’s another bullshit article written by a realtor. Quelle surprise.
If I hear that rich investor bullshit one more time I’m going to lose it. Rich Russians? BUllshit. Bullshit bullshit bullshit.
Rich people don’t get rich be being stupid. When the whole of the American market is collapsing who the hell would buy a zillion dollar condo in Vancouver when you could buy a good size house in Napa, for instance.
Sooner or later the free market takes over, which is exactly what we’re seeing with the rising inventory. Either the market gets back in line with fundamentals or the lower and middle class leave, and the wealthy have to pour their own damn coffee.
As Patriotz said, think about it.
May 17th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
..on bulls, bears and bubbles
http://tinyurl.com/5dudpz
interesting read from WSJ
May 17th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Wow, total REBGV listings hit 16,999 yesterday, according to this.
One more listing anyone?
May 17th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
As recently as a couple weeks ago a new condo development sold out in hours.
Left me somewhat perplexed, as listings are piling up at record levels, and so I can’t help but wonder if the new units are selling at a far too low pricing or are the existing languishing listings priced too high?
Or:
Are sales tactics of the marketers’ no match for the regular realtors?
May 17th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Nah, I’m sure there will be lots of drug dealers and organized crime bosses here that will take a huge loss on their money laundering operations, but definitely won’t have to declare bankruptcy.