United Properties Anvil in trouble
Another lower mainland condo project in trouble, this one in New West. Story at the CBC:
United Properties, the developer behind The Anvil in New Westminster, has run out money, and that means pre-sale buyers are being asked to pay an additional $20,00 to $40,00 if they want to keep their condos.
Pre-sale buyers have received letters from the developer saying they have 14 days to decide whether they want to pull out and get their deposit back or pay the additional costs. The project needs an additional $4 million to meet its financial obligations.
“Development is a tough game and United Properties has been at it for some time, so it is quite unique to have such a developer run into this kind of difficulty,” said real estate lawyer Ron Usher.
Apparently the Anvil is currently 18 months behind schedule. Insert appropriate Wile E. Coyote comment here.
Thanks to Macchiato and Exx for the story link.
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May 21st, 2008 at 11:13 pm
I am wondering if the +$20-$40K would represent market value for the units? Further, if contracts are then just terminated and deposits returned … I am guessing the strategy is that the developer would then put the units back on the market at an increased price? With things slowing down, this strategy may prove problematic.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:09 am
Interesting comments below the CBC story. Wasn’t sure if it would be appropriate to cut and paste to here, but check out what Renews Boy and Snowrunner have to say about construction practices.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:38 am
Proof that we are in a recession:
http://tinyurl.com/3pa99w
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:44 am
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SEND IN THE CLOWNS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The high paid spinners… Bill Good, Muir, Patrick, et all should have no problem turning this into a selling opportunity.
“Get in now, before construction costs price you out of the best place on earth housing market” will be the message.
The secondary message they will pump and push will be that prices aren’t too high; it’s taxes and development fees.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:09 am
Because people don’t understand the truth:
RE prices are determined only by what the buyer is willing to pay, not by the cost to the seller.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:55 am
I guess it all depends what exactly the price is. If we’re talking 2003 prices for these places, plus $20k (lets call that 5-10%), it might be worth it. That could be a 30% discount on todays prices.
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:04 am
From the Globe: Q1 US home prices fall by the largest amount in 17 years;
‘“The large overhang of real estate inventory awaiting sale continues to force price declines in many areas, but particularly in places that had seen very sharp appreciation,” Patrick Lawler, the agency’s chief economist, said in a prepared statement.’
Good thing we don’t see either of (a) increasing inventory or (b) a period of rapid price appreciation here in Vancouver
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:17 am
What’s going to happen to all these partially finished condos since the developers seem to be able to walk away at a moments notice? (like they did the leaky condos). Are they going to become giant squats full of homeless and gigantic drug bazaars? God help you if there’s one of these partially finished condos around the corner from your “million dollar” home. How could they NOT become magnets for illegal activity? Seems one of those could single-handedly ruin a neighborhood…?
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:24 am
Did i read it wrong or does Garth’s site say “Pumper Bill” is a renter himself?
How backwards is that?
Hey trolls, what do you think about the biggest RE pumper being a renter?
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:40 am
Hey trolls, what do you think about the biggest RE pumper being a renter?
what people do behind closed doors and what persona they project outside may vary widely.
what do i have to do to pay the bills?
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:47 am
It’s like that gold troll Michael pumping gold on here and then shorting it, except people actually listen to Bill Good.
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:48 am
These condos going into recievership is proof that the economy and relestate market in Vancouver is red hot and there are no signs it is slowing down!
It’s so hot that even if you buy before you get priced out, you might end up getting priced out anyways!
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:57 am
what a great way to squeeze a few more dollars.
May 22nd, 2008 at 9:10 am
Wow, these developer financial troubles are really piling up. They all seem to use the same excuse: escalating labor and material cost – did they not plan on those costs being variable?
Both labor and materials cost fluctuate, when there’s less construction happening the cost of both can go down.
Why does it seem to be so much more expensive to build in the lower mainland compared with the rest of Canada?
May 22nd, 2008 at 9:24 am
Rob A,
Well said on the otherside i have heard that Gerth Turner is in *the place to be*(Vancouver) to buy Pent House.
“what people do behind closed doors.?”
what do i have to do to pay the bills?
Write a book, name it “DOG EAT BEAR”even you can travel with in provinces and take a world tour all bears will pay for your expenses.
you will be famous without any correction or crash then buy a pent house because money you have earned is yours,you must spend it some where so what about buying some more real estate?Investment properties in the place to be?Also when your bag is full of money you must visit in Vancouver ah,ok,where is my location?countinue……….
May 22nd, 2008 at 9:47 am
It’s so hot that even if you buy before you get priced out, you might end up getting priced out anyways!
circular logic!
you have your head so far up your a$$ that if you had a thought your head would explode and…well we won’t go there…
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:03 am
It’s so hot that even if you buy before you get priced out, you might end up getting priced out anyways!
Then why are you selling your condo? If you believe prices will keep going up why sell? Oh wait, I know, because you’re full of sh&t!
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:09 am
“Then why are you selling your condo? If you believe prices will keep going up why sell?”
Because, as I said before I am moving out of province and I don’t want to rent out a property when I am on the other side of the country. Try to keep up
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:14 am
Because, as I said before I am moving out of province and I don’t want to rent out a property when I am on the other side of the country.
You’ve never heard of a property manager? You should look into it because when your place doesn’t sell you’ll need one.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:26 am
Actually Tony, you have to actually own property in order to rent it out.
He doesn’t know where he lives and claims to have signed a job offer over a long weekend.
What was the deadline of the job offer Rob A? since it came in after business hours on Friday and the middle of the night in Ontario? Presumably while you were snuggling with your “girlfriend”
Is Starbucks opening a new location in Barrie?
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:31 am
Wow, I’m really flatered by the amount of interest you guys are taking in me!
:blush:
But it is just part of the territory when you are living the Downtown life style
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:11 am
Just a thought…
Maybe in reality Rob A.’s “Snuggling with his girlfriend” means “Paid Krrish’s mom for a rusty trombone”.
Go ahead and mod this down to the bottom of the pile, it made me laugh to think of it….
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Rob A
“Wow, I’m really flatered by the amount of interest you guys are taking in me!”
Yes, you’re the Paris Hilton of Vancouver Real Estate.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Canadian housing boom over, says RBC
…but that probably doesn’t apply to Vancouver.
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Oops, the above article does apply to Vancouver as shown in the RBC report the article is referring to.
For April, YOY sales down -5.0%, listings up 25.9%.
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Link above didn’t work. Direct url: http://www.rbc.com/economics/m.....ytrend.pdf
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Satv, Krish Krash, Rob A:
This is what your leader Rob Chipman says:
Rob Chipman { 05.22.08 at 2:08 pm }
“I understand that you think the correction will be greater than 20%. I’ve said I expect something from 20% – 40%. We don’t differ that much on that score.”
http://robchipman.net/blog/?p=81#comments
I think he is off by a wide margin; the price drop will be much greater, my reasons are solid, and that is why he is too chicken to publish my posts.
What do you say to that?
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:21 pm
A realtor predicting house prices dropping between 20 to 40% isn’t enough for you? Geez, you’re hard to please.
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Wiley Coyote hauling up the anvil is the perfect image for this story
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:53 pm
“I don’t want anything to do with that idiot Krissh/Satv/Thumsup or whatever he’s calling himself this time” Rob Chipman
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:33 pm
I don’t give a heck to Rob Chipman -if you guys got some references about RTRS from Crabman then you know the answer.tweenty percent correction is to tell the sellers to reduce their listing prices to make realtors job easy.
If seller got to lose $100k Realtor won’t even lose 1000 on his commission,The best lesson to learn- if market is due for crash or correction why don’t ROB CHIPMAN put his on properties on sale?
Market is catching the sales heat- anybody wanted to swim, just get in today than tomorrow.Do not entertain your self with just for lough,if you disrespect the statue of our economy,mortgage and lower interest rates they will tick opposite from your desire,So get in or good bye.
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Thums:
“if market is due for crash or correction why don’t ROB CHIPMAN put his on properties on sale?
I would have to agree, on the surface, it seems a contradiction, but it isn’t all that unusual for him to contradict himself, and he definitely has some large gaps in knowledge, particularly around Macro Economic Theories.
(it’s actually funny when he pretends to understand monetary theory)
As well, some of his ideas around finance issues are somewhat bizarre, particularly his theory of how negative cash flow and negative equity is a good investment strategy.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:02 pm
A,
We don’t have hurricanes here,We don’t have threat of terrorism here,And we have low interest rates also low mortgage rates,we have increased level of immigration and migration top on the above we not going to have enough housing stats after 2008 where do you see your negative equity dreams?
Stop complaining get set ready to get in!when?TODAY.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Rob Chipman… I expect something from 20% – 40%.
I think he is off by a wide margin; the price drop will be much greater
I don’t expect to see much more than 40% nominal off the SFH benchmark, but it will take over a 50% real hit. Those are about the same parameters as the 80′s bust.
50%+ nominal off some condo developments, yes.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:48 pm
I finally figured you out, Thumbs.
As far as you’re concerned as long as people keep buying in at ever increasing prices, everyone benefits. To you it makes sense to buy in right now because tomorrow and every day after for decades prices will go up.
If you can’t afford to buy in downtown buy out in the suburbs. If you can’t afford the size you want, just buy something smaller.
I’m right, aren’t I?
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Patrioz: Yes, something along your scenario is more likely to play out.
I didn’t want to confuse Rob, Sat Kingii, Newsflash, Aaron,
Realitycheck et al, with nominal vs, real, etc.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:38 pm
scullboy: good call on numbnutz
added inventory will increase demand
Alice in Wonderland Economics
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:47 pm
real interest rate spread at 1981 boom top=17%
real interest rate spread now=2%
rental vacancy rate at 1981 boom top=6%
rental vacancy rate now=2%
fellas, any significant correction in vancouver r.e. in the past has been fueled by an real interest rate spread significantly above historical norms. the credit crisis would have to take a huge turn for the worse to get the housing deflation you hope for. just hoping for something will not make it happen. look for opportunities in the weakness, a shrewd investor can make money in any market. don’t let past mistakes hinder your future. use cogent thought and don’t be an assclown. ha ha
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:48 pm
Sonika,
Jolly good!yep!yep!!that’s!that’s!! what you need!need!!right there you have found a great friend with massive dock i mean coca cola up yup,thumps up.
Sonika where you have reached today with your best ever conclusion my girl,I can finally say it with proud that
………………. .. … /? /)
……………….. ..,../? ..//
……………….. …./… ./ /
……………….. ..,/? ..//
……………….. ./… ./ /
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……..(‘(…?(… ……. ,~/’…’)
………\………. ….. ..\/…./
……….”…\…. ….. . _.?
…………\……. ….. ..(
…………..\….. ….. …
Vancouver,B.C.
“THE BEST PLACE ON EARTH”-cho chweet
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:51 pm
ascii images…. sigh
nostalgia ain’t what it used to be
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Keep dreaming stagnate, the worm has turned and if you haven’t sold out already you’re obviously too late like your buddy SATV. You Realtards sure are entertaining though! I can hardly wait to read your sob stories in the local rags when you wail for a bailout:)
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:27 pm
………………. .. … /? /)
……………….. ..,../? ..//
……………….. …./… ./ /
……………….. ..,/? ..//
……………….. ./… ./ /
…………./??/’ …’/??`?
………./’/…/… ./… …./??\
……..(’(…?(… ……. ,~/’…’)
………\………. ….. ..\/…./
……….”…\…. ….. . _.?
…………\……. ….. ..(
…………..\….. ….. …
So I assume, you don’t agree with Rob Chipman, you don’t think there will be a drop in price of 20% t 40%
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:27 pm
stagnate wrote “look for opportunities in the weakness, a shrewd investor can make money in any market. don’t let past mistakes hinder your future. use cogent thought and don’t be an assclown. ha ha.”
You must be very young and accordingly arrogant. You assume that the goal of everyone in the friggin’ world is to make money. It’s not. Money can’t buy you the most important things in the world; it only allows you to rent them.
They say “money can’t buy you love” but you know you can rent it. So I guess you’re a renter with regard to love; watch out for diseases, some of those girls are dangerous.
Stagnate, you’re a friggin’ renter! Oh that’s too funny! All the money in the world and he’s got no-one to love; he’s a renter!
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Sorry stagnate, Maybe you’re not so young after all. Just a lonely old man.
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:31 pm
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:36 pm
stagnant is one of those jealous bitter home owners…
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:38 pm
not stagnant: yes i can make money. yes i can get under your skin.
tony danza: 80′s are over tough guy, thanks for coming out.
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:40 pm
“But it is just part of the territory when you are living the Downtown life style”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GVE7lRZuFM
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:43 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:44 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:45 pm
blueskies: you’re one of the smarter posters here, leave the dumb comments to the fourth liners on your team.
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Stagnate:
“real interest rate spread at 1981 boom top=17%
real interest rate spread now=2%”
Not much room for monetary stimulus this time around,where are you going to get the 1500 bsp to stimulate?
rental vacancy rate at 1981 boom top=6%
rental vacancy rate now=2%”
The real vacancy rate is much higher, most of you homedebtors have 2 or 3 suites to rent out.
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Goin’ Down to China Town
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x_WQBi2wJg
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:59 pm
-A- : indeed i would agree there is little or no stimulus left in the bag, and what there is may be pushing on a string so to speak. the real vacancy rate may be a bit higher, not so certain on that.
May 22nd, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Rob might be changing his tune again, apparently the market has started to heat up again trending toward white hot, and has posted the stats to prove it.
Therefore the 20% to 40% might be revised.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:38 pm
Micheal – Thanx for the vids – I laughed my ass off!
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Hey Pope,
You have to admit, I think my posts have served some kind of purpose. I think Krrish / thumbs have gone insane. You have to admit it looks like his personalities have completely split tin two, and they’re both short circuited.
I feel just like Captain Kirk. Remember how he was always able to fry the brains of computers/space probes with logical constructs delivered in a completely over the top manner?
Unless someone’s impersonating krrish in which case I say : GOOD SHOW! You’ve mastered his dreadful posting style. Well done.
NOw if you can just get his mom to stop texting me…..
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Thumbs:
Just for once I was being serious…. I figured I really had deciphered your opinion on real estate.
If I haven’t can you please explain it to us? I’m totally serious here. I mean you’ve been babbling on for… what…. years now? Surely you’ve got some kind of opinion that can make sense. I mean, you’re saying buy in today, right? So, why should be buy in today? I’m sure everyone else is just as interested as I am.
C’mon…. explain it to me. I’m paying $1300 today for a 700Sq Ft place in the West End. The building is clean, quiet and remarkably well constructed. It’s very well run, and very well kept. It has a gorgeous view of the mountains AND the ocean. It’s close ot the beach and close to the park. Friends of mine, some of whom own several properties in Van, were really impressed with how nice and homey it was.
So… come on, now. Explain to me why I should be leaving this lovely little home for something else. I’d probably be paying triple for something comparable in order to own it. Surely you have a well though out line of argument to convince some one like me.
I eagerly and sincerely await your reply.
May 23rd, 2008 at 7:09 am
Sonika,
you used to like your old place as well now you liked the new place,I don’t know why you moved from the old place was it sold,asking for rent increase after contract or what?
Now you like the new place but how long are you going to stay there?haaaaa ok -if you are looking for some solid answer-I don’t think you have any question in your comment but i believe you have put a one sided forceful opinion that you are renting a good place for 1300 you feel good that way,I have no objection, if you are renting a beautiful place for cheap just enjoy your place,the only spin i can put on this is you are renting it, you does not own this same place.
You can not gain the appreciation out of it,you may not be able to lower down your monthly payment towards zero but you may have to pay increased rents in future or not depend on you owner. short on time the last point may be you have to pay double the price with in 15 year to buy this same place where owner might be closing his cost and you are still paying increased rent.
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:55 am
Krissh, that’s one of the great things a about renting, you can move to a new building every year and still pay 1/3 the cost of what it’d cost to mortgage it.
You mentioned appreciation but fail to realize that real estate is not the only asset with the potential to appreciate, if one were to save the $2,000 difference between a mortgage and a lease and have invested it in any of the other asset classes which increased in value since Real estate started appreciating again (2004)then you’d have done quite well.
When you say the price doubles you’re not including the opportunity costs of investing the $2k per month into oil stock or gold or pretty much any sector, since it’s not just real estate that went up!
If you had leveraged $500,000 on precious metals or gold it would also be worth a lot more, just like real estate. Is this getting into your head?
Owning a condo, that will go down in value, is not the most important thing in the world.
If you were able to lease your car for 1/3 of the price of owning it would you still buy the car?
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:45 pm
bdk; “If you were able to lease your car for 1/3 of the price of owning it would you still buy the car?”
Your comparison of condo’s to cars is spot on. For some reason people believe condo’s are more real estate when in truth that they are a rapidly depreciating consumer item such as a CAR. Very little of the value of a condo is in the land, most of it is typical of a car, nice finishes and a mechanical system and body that has a limited lifespan and will eventually depreciate to zero (the non-realestate portion 95% likely). Unlike a SFH where probably the land value will appreciate as a majority portion of the value.
I very much doubt there is any presently built modern condo that will make it to the 40 year limit of new mortgages without a total rebuild…just like a car!
May 24th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Actually, I *HATED* my old place, and the neighbors were getting worse and worse. As BDK pointed out, I’ll stay in the new place as long as I like, though hopefully that’ll be a while. THe building is professionally managed and it’s all rental units, so the landlord will never evict people because he is selling the place.
At this point you have to ask….. how long will it take to build equity in a place if you’re paying down a 40 year mortgage? We can all do the math, so really the question is rhetorical. The real questions are:
1) How fast am I paying down equity
2) How much of my income is going into housing if I own as opposed to renting
3) do the advantages of buying and owning at this time (pride of ownership, paying off equity etc) outweigh the advantages of renting (flexibility in a changing economy, much lower housing costs)
Even if you have to pay increased rent in the future, you’re going to have to pay increased costs of ownership in the form of higher interest payments . Even if the interest rate drops, at this point you’d pretty much have to take out a 40 year loan which means you’re paying way more in interest. And then there are property taxes and strata fees. In comparison, 4% / year rental increases start looking good.
Who says you ever have to own? If the price is double in 15 years… well then renting looks to be an even better value because relative to owning your cost of houseing will be super dirt cheap.
It no longer makes any sense at all to own here. Even a wealthy foreigner would be smarter to stay at the Westin is he were so hell bent on living here. And if you’re talking wealthy foreigners purchasing a pied a tierre, well why on earth would they buy in Vancouver instead of, say California or Nova Scotia for that matter?
Wealthy people don’t get or stay wealthy by making bad financial decisions.
No, I love Van, especially on days like today. YOu do have to look around carefully to find a god rental, but they’re out there and when you get one, you can enjoy the things Van has to offer without paying through the teeth for some badly built condo.
Hell…. I may *never* buy here. I may just buy a little place in NS or NFLD. By the time global warming kicks in, they’ll be rainforest anyway.
May 26th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Scullboy, the point about staying at the Westing (or fairmont) etc. is very clever.
Furthermore it’s possible to buy a strata unit in a hotel such as the Terminal city club (near coal harbour) or the Marriot Pinnacle (in coal harbour) and then you get a return on the hotel and can stay there for 30 days per year.
If the rich foreigners stay longer than 30 days they could buy 4 of them for $800k (or the price of a new 1+den in the same area) and get 120 days a year plus a small % return on the purchase price while it’s in the rental pool.