Victoria flippers in trouble

During this weekends open-topic post ‘tacoman’ noted that someone has started up a Victoria area flippers in trouble blog modeled after the original Sacramento area flippers in trouble and Phoenix flippers in trouble.  These blogs all track drops in asking prices and where available show recent sales activity.

The Victoria area blog isn’t yet showing drops anywhere near as dramatic as the US based blogs are tracking but it will be interesting to see where this goes as the market changes.  On the Sacramento blog the first listing is a house bought in March 2007 for $1,308,000, currently sitting on the market with an asking price of $600k.

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Dave said: HPI is not a valuation or affordability metric, which is what you seem to suggest it can be used for. But the index records the transaction of homes in terms of value and frequency of the trade. Homes can only be sold or bought if 1, Price is acceptable to both parties 2, Affordability factor to mortage the place 3, Appropriate financing is available The index reflects upon this because the final price is really what the buyer is able to afford to pay. What you are after is the rise in the instrinsic value of homes. You are treating a home like it has a book to price value and a price to earnings ratio. Sadly, a home is not like a stock. Warren Buffet and Charles Schwab had both said that the intrinsic value of homes… Read more »


Patriotz, I think everybody needs to realize that our civil law is not based on the same system as the Americans do. I think many of you had been seeing too many Judge Judy soap operas. You see, lawsuits are common in the US of A because unless it is a federal case, its rule of law is based on the Napoleonic Code. Whereas, our legal system is based on the English Common Law. People, please don't mix American justice in Canadian courts. They are not the same. The privacy act is there to protect all of us from possible cases of privacy invasion. You can try cases even without having the preceeding event occur, because it has been legislated into law. Whereas with the Americans, it prohibits ex post facto laws that apply to events that occurred before them.… Read more »


*ONLY* in B.C. have I ever heard denigrating comments about renters.

Because deep down inside, owners know that only an endless supply of greater fools will support their dreams of lifelong wealth. Once people stop playing the game, i.e. are content to be renters, it's all over.


In other news:

200 mortgage brokers arrested in USA:

UK housing market down 20% "base case"

These days I only hear positive RE comments from trolls on vancouver blogs.

Bubble Lad

You can start with this beauty:

Bubble Lad

I think Drachen hit the nail on the head – why come here and try to convince everybody of the strength of Vancouver real estate? If you were a hard core Bull and believed all your arguments about never ending price gains, shouldn't you be thankful that blogs like this are "discouraging" people from buying real estate so there's more for all the optimists? While the concern for all the poor renters is deeply touching, I think Drachen's advice is best: don't waste your time here, get out there and BUY BUY BUY!!! Show us all what a badass your are!


This is getting ridculous. Flippers in Trouble is just an homage to the originals in California. For those of us who have predicted the end of this mess for some time, it was a sight to see the first 10% price drops on these blogs. Reality so slowly and surely sinking in. Now 40% price drops are a dime a dozen, and the VHB's Oprah moment have long come and gone. But here it is business as usual. It seems as our resident mortgage broker/pumper/shill/stooge tries to discredit this site by: a. Playing definition with the term "fliper" b. Attacking the legality of the site. Who cares. It is what it is. All it is showing to date are reductions in asking prices. Where will it go from here? Don't know for sure, but blogs like VFIT will give us… Read more »


regarding the legal debate: It is demonstrably provable that the seller is having 'trouble' selling for the original asking price or they wouldn't have dropped said asking price. The information listed is all public -the 'privacy' argument is just smokescreen.

If the goal of listing a property for sale, or dropping the asking price is to generate interest and actually sell the property the point could be made that sites like 'flippers in trouble' highlight properties where the seller is motivated, providing a valuable service to both the buyer and seller.


April 2008 Case-Shiller numbers are out.

Dave: would luv to hear your spin on this

YVR will be visiting this station in about 2 years

may as well start preparing for the downturn now

don't buy now, you will be sorry if you do



If you feel that way then buy all you can, there's plenty to go around, why don't you have a competition with yourself and see if you can sign a dozen mortgages by the end of the week.

Just one favour to ask though. When you're filing for bankruptcy can you come back here and tell us so we can have a good laugh?


In other news, the April 2008 Case-Shiller numbers are out. Seattle is now down 6.6% since its peak in July 2007.

Actually, Seattle went up about a half percent between March and April.


Jonathan buddy, "This IS the best place on earth you rental trash." I don't think I've ever seen the bull case put more succinctly. Thanks for that. It's weird…. I've lived in Nova Scotia, Quebec, all over Ontario and Alberta. *ONLY* in B.C. have I ever heard denigrating comments about renters. Best place on earth, indeed. I"m thinking of packing up and heading elsewhere…..Australia beckons. I might come into a tidy pile of cash and a few months on the other side of the pacific might be just the thing. I have to say, today's the day I'm glad I rent. B.C. has been freaking me out. Nobody's on the street and it's the middle of the summer. Well…. I think it's summer. We've seen sun so rarely lately. It's awesome… I can just ditch the stuff I don't need,… Read more »


I think all of you are nuts. The real estate market in Vancouver is top notch. Vancouverites are the saviest real estate owners in the world. There is no way I repeat no way that prices are going down. This IS the best place on earth you rental trash.


I suppose you simply did not do your homework I prescribed to you. You do not understand what a HPI really means and how to use it. Or maybe you understood it, but chose to simply ignore it because it DOES TELL the truth about the housing market in general. So, explain to me Dave how could the index climb 2 to 3x as much in 6 years when prior years, it took 20 years to double?!? And how do you explain why the HPI index is dropping like a rock in 2 years after 2006 in some states? Remember that HPI “tracks” the transaction of homes and it only changes when it is bought or sold I thought I had already responded to your HPI question. HPI is not a valuation or affordability metric, which is what you seem… Read more »


Case Shiller Index shows a 15.3% decline in RE prices in April.

Chris Hurst (sp?) on Global this morning was talking about how US RE prices dropped back to 2004 prices with millions of Americans owing more than their homes are worth.

The RE woes in the US are far from over. Good thing we're not in the US, eh?


My concern with the VFIT site is that, our privacy laws are quite strict and quite often enforced.

WHAT privacy? ALL information on the site is not only in the public domain but previously advertised by the seller on the MLS. An MLS listing is a public solicitation for bids.

And again, "flipper" is just a slang term for an RE investor. There is NFW anyone is going to be able to make a successful claim against any user of that term. People use far more offensive language on this blog and elsewhere and we all know it.

In other news, the April 2008 Case-Shiller numbers are out. Seattle is now down 6.6% since its peak in July 2007. San Diego, the west coast city that peaked first in June 2006, is now down 28%.

Just Saying

Am I the only one here who thinks "Browntown" has a thing for nuts?

The Van Man

Patriotz, I know Phil and Garth have retained lawyers on an advisory role, simply because the nature of their business. Mr. Turner could have been sued by countless of thousands of Nortel investors when he was pumping for Dynamic Funds Inc. He claimed he's an investment advisor, but in fact he was not. He's was a business writer, but he made sure in his seminars that he implied that he was. I did not like his business practice, but he is working with the laws. My concern with the VFIT site is that, our privacy laws are quite strict and quite often enforced. The advantage of our privacy laws is that, its enforcement is completely paid for by us, the tax payers. An individual can simply file a complaint to the privacy commissioner stating the obvious facts, the invasion of… Read more »


But misrepresentation and negligence are well-established in law. Sellers (and realtors) have to be able to stand behind their claims. Correct, they have to stand behind their claims, which are material representations pertaining to the property for sale. But stuff like "everyone wants to move/retire here", "the rich immigrants are coming", "buy now before it's too late", etc. are not claims about the property for sale. They are just "salesman's puffery" in legal jargon. Just like sellers of collectibles, and unlike securities dealers, realtors are not legally proscribed from making implied claims about the future value of the goods for sale. As for the VFIT site, there is nothing on the site except the location of the property and its listing history – just the facts, as Sgt. Friday would say. The idea that anyone would have a claim for… Read more »


Good luck nailing whoever owns the flipper blog. I bet the host of that blog is in the US.


Per the BOC's prediction today: "Soft landing seen for Canada's Housing Market", It seems from the comments that there is not alot of agreement. In fact some are quite classic.


Nor does a buyer have any grounds for seeking damages from a seller for the usual babble such as “everyone wants to live here”, etc. That’s just part of the game.

Not correct. Information in a listing that a buyer relies in when deciding to make a purchase is actionable. Not saying it happens at lot. Nor am i suggesting it's easy to pursue or that the payoff is worth the effort. But misrepresentation and negligence are well-established in law. Sellers (and realtors) have to be able to stand behind their claims.


Dave rules. Ban scary Dave.

Thums up2

LIVE BLOGCAST Lots of properties owners and lots of rental building owners are serving eviction notice to their tenents renovating their units,buildings,and increasing the rents by $300-700 more. bloggers source tell this is happening more frequently in the westside and mount pleasant area. 'flip it or don't,'buy it or don't,'sell it or don't,rent it or not but "Vancouver housing prices countinue to climb 8% this year and 5% next year.Buying is being recomended by experts because interest rates are low." with the initial arrival of $100 cheque per adult from carbon tax-all of sudden realtors phone start ringing on high volumes.showing will be on high volume from tomorrow fear for two quarter of negative growth suppose to end next week but time has changed without any damage now yellow people wanted to go green before it's too late. "Vancouver,B.C. countinue… Read more »


Calling somebody a flipper and saying they are in financial trouble could undermine their ability to command the highest price for their house (i.e. damages may be incurred). So is calling a property an overpriced POS or pointing out that it has a ridiculous price/rent, which is what people on this board do all the time. In fact the whole point of this and other bear blogs is to educate people that current prices are ridiculous and have to come down. Are the sellers going to sue Garth Turner too? Go read his book or his blog if you want to see blunt language. The very fact that the seller has had to reduce the listing price means that he is having "trouble". Or is that too hard for you to understand? Nobody has the right to sell anything for… Read more »