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	<title>Comments on: Tourism down</title>
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	<description>Bubble? What Bubble?</description>
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		<title>By: Kopyright Klepto</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2008/07/tourism-down.html#comment-23665</link>
		<dc:creator>Kopyright Klepto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/2008/07/tourism-down.html#comment-23665</guid>
		<description>Jesse, 
 
Reading it again -- I see what you are getting at.  I certainly did not interpret this way, but perhaps I was applying my own logic to their statement.  I&#039;m happily getting a sub 9% annual return on my investments at the moment, but in no way does this encourage me to take on boat loads of real estate debt and associate leveraged risk as an alternative! &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-23665&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesse,</p>
<p>Reading it again &#8212; I see what you are getting at.  I certainly did not interpret this way, but perhaps I was applying my own logic to their statement.  I&#039;m happily getting a sub 9% annual return on my investments at the moment, but in no way does this encourage me to take on boat loads of real estate debt and associate leveraged risk as an alternative!
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-23665">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: don</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2008/07/tourism-down.html#comment-23646</link>
		<dc:creator>don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/2008/07/tourism-down.html#comment-23646</guid>
		<description>don&#039;t forget all those foreign language students that I&#039;m sure are a big part of the rental market. because of the strong dollar, they are starting to go elsewhere too ... &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-23646&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>don&#039;t forget all those foreign language students that I&#039;m sure are a big part of the rental market. because of the strong dollar, they are starting to go elsewhere too &#8230;
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-23646">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: jesse</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2008/07/tourism-down.html#comment-23589</link>
		<dc:creator>jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/2008/07/tourism-down.html#comment-23589</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;I think this was meant to encourage people to put in money to pay off their debt rather than into other investments. Seems like sane investment advice to me. I&#8217;m not sure what your beef is.&quot;&lt;/i&gt; 
 
KK, the correct way to construe this argument is that, if you already bought, it is indeed better to pay off your debts as quickly as possible unless you can do better than 8+% return. The incorrect way to read this argument, which is what my beef is with, is that you should take out debt then proceed to stop investing and pay it off as quickly as possible. The argument is fatally flawed because it implies the debt is backed by an asset that is fairly valued. I would have no problem with the argument if this was explicitly stated but it was not. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-23589&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&quot;I think this was meant to encourage people to put in money to pay off their debt rather than into other investments. Seems like sane investment advice to me. I&rsquo;m not sure what your beef is.&quot;</i></p>
<p>KK, the correct way to construe this argument is that, if you already bought, it is indeed better to pay off your debts as quickly as possible unless you can do better than 8+% return. The incorrect way to read this argument, which is what my beef is with, is that you should take out debt then proceed to stop investing and pay it off as quickly as possible. The argument is fatally flawed because it implies the debt is backed by an asset that is fairly valued. I would have no problem with the argument if this was explicitly stated but it was not.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-23589">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Kopyright Klepto</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2008/07/tourism-down.html#comment-23544</link>
		<dc:creator>Kopyright Klepto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/2008/07/tourism-down.html#comment-23544</guid>
		<description>Draken wrote: &quot;Out of Provence buyers make up less than 5% of the market. Buyers from outside of Canada are under 2%. Not enough to have any real impact on upwards or downwards pressure. 
 
Real estate is local, the market will turn based on factors on the ground here, not foreign buyers.&quot; 
 
Please don&#039;t take this the wrong way, but I find this argument quite humorous.  When I moved to Vancouver 2 years ago, I could clearly see that  prices were out-of-whack with local incomes.  I moved from Toronto, and my salary remained stable (and my wife&#039;s dropped by 20%) but a similar 3-bedroom townhouse near transit was 50% more expensive here.  Oh, and rents were about the same. 
 
One of the common reasons asserted for the higher prices was the high numbers of wealthy out-of-province and out-of-country buyers.  I find it funny now that as the tide is turning the opposite appears to be true -- real estate is local and it can be supported by our economy just like it always has been.   
 
All I hear is &quot;watch out below&quot;!  Our local economy cannot support these prices; it never could. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-23544&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Draken wrote: &quot;Out of Provence buyers make up less than 5% of the market. Buyers from outside of Canada are under 2%. Not enough to have any real impact on upwards or downwards pressure.</p>
<p>Real estate is local, the market will turn based on factors on the ground here, not foreign buyers.&quot;</p>
<p>Please don&#039;t take this the wrong way, but I find this argument quite humorous.  When I moved to Vancouver 2 years ago, I could clearly see that  prices were out-of-whack with local incomes.  I moved from Toronto, and my salary remained stable (and my wife&#039;s dropped by 20%) but a similar 3-bedroom townhouse near transit was 50% more expensive here.  Oh, and rents were about the same.</p>
<p>One of the common reasons asserted for the higher prices was the high numbers of wealthy out-of-province and out-of-country buyers.  I find it funny now that as the tide is turning the opposite appears to be true &#8212; real estate is local and it can be supported by our economy just like it always has been.  </p>
<p>All I hear is &quot;watch out below&quot;!  Our local economy cannot support these prices; it never could.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-23544">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Kopyright Klepto</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2008/07/tourism-down.html#comment-23541</link>
		<dc:creator>Kopyright Klepto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Kesse wrote: &quot;Criminy, how in God&#8217;s name can I do better than 8.9% risk adjusted? Better max out my mortgage!&quot; 
 
Jesse -- I think this was meant to encourage people to put in money to pay off their debt rather than into other investments.  Seems like sane investment advice to me.   I&#039;m not sure what your beef is. 
 
His other comments seemed focussed on suggesting to people not to buy above their means -- which has been one of the key factors helping to blow up the bubble. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-23541&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kesse wrote: &quot;Criminy, how in God&rsquo;s name can I do better than 8.9% risk adjusted? Better max out my mortgage!&quot;</p>
<p>Jesse &#8212; I think this was meant to encourage people to put in money to pay off their debt rather than into other investments.  Seems like sane investment advice to me.   I&#039;m not sure what your beef is.</p>
<p>His other comments seemed focussed on suggesting to people not to buy above their means &#8212; which has been one of the key factors helping to blow up the bubble.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-23541">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2008/07/tourism-down.html#comment-23538</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/2008/07/tourism-down.html#comment-23538</guid>
		<description>&quot;Don&#8217;t worry Skullboy with your lifestyle you won&#8217;t last 40yrs, so might as well take out the largest mortgage you can.&quot; 
 
Numbersman..... that&#039;s a gay porn star name from the 70&#039;s so whatch ya talkin&#039; about?  Keep it to yourself! &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-23538&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Don&rsquo;t worry Skullboy with your lifestyle you won&rsquo;t last 40yrs, so might as well take out the largest mortgage you can.&quot;</p>
<p>Numbersman&#8230;.. that&#039;s a gay porn star name from the 70&#039;s so whatch ya talkin&#039; about?  Keep it to yourself!
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-23538">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: VanLoverBoy</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2008/07/tourism-down.html#comment-23524</link>
		<dc:creator>VanLoverBoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/2008/07/tourism-down.html#comment-23524</guid>
		<description>Of course tourism is down in Vancouver, and makes total sense. As more and more people move here (because its the best place in the world to live) there are naturally less and less people who can visit. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-23524&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course tourism is down in Vancouver, and makes total sense. As more and more people move here (because its the best place in the world to live) there are naturally less and less people who can visit.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-23524">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Numbersman</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2008/07/tourism-down.html#comment-23518</link>
		<dc:creator>Numbersman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/2008/07/tourism-down.html#comment-23518</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t worry Skullboy with your lifestyle you won&#039;t last 40yrs, so might as well take out the largest mortgage you can. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-23518&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#039;t worry Skullboy with your lifestyle you won&#039;t last 40yrs, so might as well take out the largest mortgage you can.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-23518">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: scullboy</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2008/07/tourism-down.html#comment-23515</link>
		<dc:creator>scullboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/2008/07/tourism-down.html#comment-23515</guid>
		<description>SO essentially B.C. has two industries left to collapse: 
 
Grow - ops 
 
Construction (it&#039;s not over just quite yet). 
 
Sadly, Krrrrrih&#039;s mom is not yet an industry unto herself, though rumour has it her ability to keep the construction workers smiling has become a global phenomenon. 
 
I was walking past the W building the other day. Damn! That sucker a HUGE! My friend said between that and the Shangri-la it looks like Vancouver&#039;s trying to build the Death Star. I I just kept thinking &quot;Jesus, that looks like about enough capacity for 5 years of migration&quot;.  
 
For the *LIFE* of me, I can&#039;t imagine being stupid enough to give up 40 years of my life for a tiny little place in that great big building, surrounded by the WORST NEIGHBORHOOD IN CANADA. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-23515&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SO essentially B.C. has two industries left to collapse:</p>
<p>Grow &#8211; ops</p>
<p>Construction (it&#039;s not over just quite yet).</p>
<p>Sadly, Krrrrrih&#039;s mom is not yet an industry unto herself, though rumour has it her ability to keep the construction workers smiling has become a global phenomenon.</p>
<p>I was walking past the W building the other day. Damn! That sucker a HUGE! My friend said between that and the Shangri-la it looks like Vancouver&#039;s trying to build the Death Star. I I just kept thinking &quot;Jesus, that looks like about enough capacity for 5 years of migration&quot;. </p>
<p>For the *LIFE* of me, I can&#039;t imagine being stupid enough to give up 40 years of my life for a tiny little place in that great big building, surrounded by the WORST NEIGHBORHOOD IN CANADA.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-23515">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: jesse</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2008/07/tourism-down.html#comment-23506</link>
		<dc:creator>jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Hotels here are whining about vacancy rates&#8230;&#8230;&quot;&lt;/i&gt; 
 
Do what the airlines are doing and reduce available capacity while raising prices. LOL. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-23506&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&quot;Hotels here are whining about vacancy rates&hellip;&hellip;&quot;</i></p>
<p>Do what the airlines are doing and reduce available capacity while raising prices. LOL.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-23506">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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