Credit crisis comes to Olympic Village
Gah just posted this link, looks like Millennium Water might need a bail out:
As the credit crisis south of the border begins to creep north, concerns are mounting over the impact it may already be having on construction of the athletes’ village for the 2010 Winter Games.
Last week, members of Vancouver’s city council held an emergency, in-camera meeting to get an update on the project. Much of the discussion revolved around the city’s obligation in the event the developer, Millennium Development Corp., can’t meet demands from the bank because of massive cost overruns, according to sources briefed on the meeting.
The best part? Even if you haven’t been speculating on Vancouver condos, now you get a chance to take part in the collapse since it looks like the City is on the hook for cost over-runs on this particular project. But don’t fret, the absolutely ‘worst case scenario’ at this point looks like a $100 million dollar bill for Vancouver tax payers.
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Bubble Lad Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
I wonder how hard it is to scrape those “I BACKED THE BID” bumper stickers off your car…
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Gadwin Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Unfortunately, Canada won’t be immune to the credit crisis. The credit crisis is working its way into the Canadian economy.
Our economy will head in the same direction as the U.S. economy and at this moment, Uncle Sam is headed downwards.
Specuvestors, you will all be in deep red ink and looking at a foreclosure sign soon unless you cut price agressively and sell before it’s too late.
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snark Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Bubble Lad, you don’t have to scrape it off, you just stick one of these over the top of it
http://vancouvercondo.info/images/backingaway.gif
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Noname Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Remember, just like with the US bailout, the taxpayer is NOT on the hook since after the markets return to fundamentals, there will be a profit to be made and the taxpayers will end up with more than what they put in…
…NOT.
Noname
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Anonymous Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
I’m bailing out the bid!
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markx Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
OK, 1100 unit, at a cost of 1 billion, and you have cost overrun? Somehow 1 mil/unit is not enough to cover costs? Has these clowns considered the fact that this development is in North America, for just a second? Some people must really take “world class city” too literally. I wonder how big the units are. You know, at $1,000/sqft, the average unit would need to be 1,000 sqft. That seem to be on the generous side for a downtown development. Or does the green building standard and all the social housing pork really account for the high construction costs? Seems like the developer need AT LEAST $1000/sqft to break even. I give then $200 for land, $250 to 300 for market construction cost. Now where does the rest of the money go?
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Dave Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Markx, the development isn’t just residential. It also has commercial and retail.
Yes, the developer had planned to sell some of the better located units at or above $1000 per ft2. The land cost was the highest paid in Canada to date per ft2 of development space so $250 to $300 seems low to me.
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holdem Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
At a population of about 612,000 people, that would be $163 for every man, woman, and child.
Do I make my check out to Bob Rennie?
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RFC Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
The land cost was the highest paid in Canada
This is exactly why local government should NOT be giving support or backing to projects like this. Who cares if you overpaid for the land as long as its taxpayers left holding the bag when your optimistic forecasts fall through?
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Bubble Lad Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
LOL snark!
better yet:
“My backside hurts from the bid”
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Zolein Zack Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Perhaps instead of the City, the super-realtor Rennie should bail them out. He can do anything!
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Drachen Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
“But don’t fret, the absolutely ‘worst case scenario’ at this point looks like a $100 million dollar bill for Vancouver tax payers.”
Easy, just raise property taxes! Helps pop the bubble and nails the perpetrators of the bubble to the wall. Win/win scenario!
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Brittanny Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
The world does not know where to put it’s money today. Under the matress is starting to look pretty good.
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Anonymous Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
“and nails the perpetrators of the bubble to the wall.”
you wish. likely they’re walking away with lots of $$$. it’s the buyers who are going to take it up the @$$.
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bcubbins Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Only 60% sold!!!! I wonder how long it will take to sell the remainder?
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Noname Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
bcubbins said “Only 60% sold!!!! I wonder how long it will take to sell the remainder?”
And how much of that 60% will back out before completion?
Noname
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buff_butler Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
super-rennie doesnt even use a car anymore… he flys arround on realtor sign.
His superpowers include:
-Change old counter tops into granite upon touch
-Convert older condos into “executive” condos just by walking inside them
-His cape give him invisibility to bear-ish reporters
-Convert any 25 yr mortgage to a 40 yr one
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beatstreet Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
What a scandal. What name should we call this new tax? Let’s have a contest!
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jesse Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
The timing is not too good for the incumbent council who voted for this. Does anyone know where to find the minutes on who actually voted for the arrangement?
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Anonymous Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
“Just what those overruns are nobody is saying, although the number bandied about most is $100-million – one that was dismissed by the same source. “That is a worst-case-scenario number if everything [continues to go] wrong. But right now it’s not there, for sure.”
Does “worst case” include a RE bust as well as overruns?
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patriotz Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
If Vancouver taxpayers want to know who to blame, they should look in a mirror. City council held a plebiscite on the Olympics way back in 2003 and the voters had a chance to kill the games right there.
Oh property tax increases are negative for RE prices of course. Just ask Montreal.
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Strataman Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
I voted against it; lobbied all my friends to kill it. So why do I pay? Better idea add all overruns to Olympic tickets especially those with prime seats. For instance all A and B rows at opening ceremonies well they pay for the overrun?
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jesse Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
“If Vancouver taxpayers want to know who to blame, they should look in a mirror.”
I think 60% should look in the mirror. The point about higher property taxes being negative for property prices is a good one but realistically other city services will suffer in the wake of this bad investment and everybody suffers.
I’m not sure how much the city will have to cover but it seems suspicious the developer is turning over its loans at the exact time credit is hard to come by. I don’t know the property development business well enough to comment whether this is normal practice.
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Clam Chowderhead Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Don’t worry I am here to fill everyone in with the real story. The development is not in financial trouble, the developer is not going to lose any money on this project. The issue at hand is credit drying up. The Developer needs X more dollars to finish the project, the credit market being what it is, only want’s to provide (worst case scenario) X-$100Million, (reality it’s closer to X-$45Million.
So the current situation is
A) Millennium takes there business elsewhere and tries to find a new creditor. Hard to do in the current marketplace, but apparently some Canadian financials are interested.
B) Millenium obtains a co-signer to guarantee the investment, ie the COV or the BC Government or another high profile development company.
The project stating it’s 60% is including that fact that none of the final phase has even starting selling yet. Fortress out of NY is worried that they won’t be able to sell hence their reservations of providing the credit needed to finish the development. Millenium isn’t worried about being able to turn a profit on the project, even if they were to lower the prices for the more desirable phase 3 they would still turn a profit. The only reason the COV is even involved at this stage is they provided a guarantee to the IOC on Olympic housing.
Here’s a tip expect a Canadian pension fund to pick up the financing at a slight discount as Fortress unloads the loan. The project will continue ahead as is.
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beatstreet Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Patriotz,
I agree that Vancouverites voted in favour of the Olympics, but we didn’t vote in favour of providing a backstop to hedgefunds and developers so they could profit.
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Paul Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
I’ve mentioned on this site that the developer’s cost to build is NOT the driving force behind the actual selling price. The cost to build is only a small factor. The selling price is basically the maximum price that the developer and its marketing people can convince the public to pay. Developers have every right to charge as much as they possibly can for the finished product, irrespective of what it costs them to build it.
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patriotz Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
That’s pretty naive. The Olympics are one of the original “privatize profits, socialize losses” scams and Canadians of all people should know this, given what happened in Montreal.
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RJB Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
The project is being financed by Fortress Investment Group, a hedge fund/private equity company based in New York.
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.....s/1919496/
Oct 3 (Reuters) – Citigroup recommended that investors sell shares of E*Trade Financial Corp and Fortress Investment Group LLC, saying the companies may have huge portfolio losses and capital constraints as the credit crisis continues.
Analyst Prashant Bhatia said in a note to clients that he expects Fortress to run out of cash in the first quarter of 2009 and sees losses of $3.4 billion in E*Trade’s mortgage portfolio.
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Alexcanuck Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
The olympics, the housing boom, Campbell, COV, all linked up nicely here.
http://tinyurl.com/ys7eu2
All planned, taxpayer (ignorant and malleable as they are in aggregate) wrapped up and delivered. Media co-opted to held the show along. What chance does the public have when confronted by a co-ordinated attack like this?
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beatstreet Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Patriotz, I think people where hoping for better such as the Salt Lake City, LA or Calgary experience.
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patriotz Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
The Calgary experience? The 1988 games did absolute squat for the local economy or RE market, which did not truly recover until a decade afterward.
http://cuer.sauder.ubc.ca/cma/.....algary.pdf
Nor did the city or province undertake the level of infrastructure spending that we are seeing in Vancouver. An exception being the Saddledome which was needed for the Flames anyway.
SLC almost turned out to be a financial fiasco which had to be averted by Mitt Romney. And LA will be forever known as the McLympics – even the locals tried to ignore it.
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Brittanny Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
I like the main stream media coverage of “expert” banking economists peddling their spin of “lets not alarm the general publics confidence” with such things as the “REALITY” of the actual global economic situation.
I am glad that we (the public) are always last to know the real situation so that these overpaid,underproductive, pompous, greedy, above the law, supposed intellectuals can bilk us out of our hard earned money leaving us scratching our heads wondering WTF happened.
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jesse Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Fortress is financing the project? Is that for real? You can’t make this stuff up… Vancouver is starting to sound like a Norwegian village with every passing day.
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beatstreet Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Patriotz, the downturn in the Calgary economy clearly had more to do with the oil market than the Olympics.
In any event, the fact that Vancouver voted for the Olympics does relieve city council from their fiduciary responsibility to voters to note give a sweet deal to a New York hedge fund.
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islander Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
We need to stop the fiction that the Calgary Olympics “made” money. The Olympics stuck Calgary with a ridiculous civic debt that took Ralph Klein’s successor years to dig out from.
The only way one can consider the Olympics to be break-even or better is by not counting most of the stuff that costs money.
The retards who voted for the 2010 games should get the bill for this. Not me.
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Big Crash Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
Hey stop this negativity; we still have the upcoming 2010 Olympic and the best place on earth to shield us from the recession. And Gordy Cambie…
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patriotz Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Patriotz, the downturn in the Calgary economy clearly had more to do with the oil market than the Olympics.
That was my point. As an economic stimulus the Olympics are at best useless, and at worst mire a city in long-term debt.
Anyone who thinks that the Olympics are in any way going to offset BC’s long-term problems with the forest industry and tourism (reduced US consumer spending) is nuts.
In any event, the fact that Vancouver voted for the Olympics does relieve city council from their fiduciary responsibility to voters to note give a sweet deal to a New York hedge fund.
That deal was made by the NPA-controlled council which was elected in 2005. Once again, you get what you vote for.
http://www.city.vancouver.bc.c.....eloper.htm
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NO -LYMPICS Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Ah yes, reality bites. This Olympic Village was fishy from the start….the price paid was exhorbitant. I hope the whole thing crashes and burns, the whole Olympic endeavour disgusts me. My view is that the financing will dry up due to the global credit crunch …and the suckers that bought into these $1000 sq/ft pigeon holes will bail….the locale ain’t that great, so the price paid was already way over the top. However, how will Vancouver lose…didn’t they make a pile selling the land? PS Good comments by others, my compliments.
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wolfey Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
THe taxplayers who voted yes for olympics should get the bill
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Macronomics Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
That’s what happens when you overpay.
Millenium Group really needs better forecasters.
$193 million bid blows away competition:
http://tinyurl.com/3j59z3
My question is does that mean pre-sale purchasers are buying a lived-in condo?
I’d hate to be the guy purchasing the unit used by the US Men’s hockey team.
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stagnate Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
they may have to re-work the zoning on the olympic village land, forego the park, social housing component, increase the density, etc. now is not the time for civic idealism it appears.
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z Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 12:03 am
Country expected to ‘escape recession, but just barely,’ says senior economist
Will the “experts” ever learn?
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condohype Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 12:12 am
Global ran a piece on this. NPA mayoral nominee / insurrection leader Peter Ladner says the city has made no commitment to intervene but will be there to “mitigate” any risks to the taxpayer. Thanks for looking out for me, Pete.
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Anonymous Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 7:29 am
What a scandal. What name should we call this new tax? Let’s have a contest. (#18)
How about Olympic Overrun Property Surcharge; or OOPS.
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Anonymous Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 7:51 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-oIMJMGd1Q
How do you make impending financial doom funny?
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john Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 8:24 am
The true facts here are this :
1) The olympics will be a huge success. This is the best place on earth afterall.
2) Vancouver condos are still a solid investment. The stock market is down over 30% on the year. Most bears have been wiped out. Bulls remain rich and will still rent to the bears if they’re nice.
3) I’m backing the bid
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Raincouver Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 8:42 am
Today’s Vancouver Sun. Big “R” on the front page. Story about Vancouver’s Olympic legacy at risk.
http://tinyurl.com/4×42zt
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NO -LYMPICS Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 8:43 am
In a recent article re: Toronto condo market, it noted a land shortage whereby builders who tradionally built low rise townhouses where literally forced to build hi-rises if they wished to stay in business.
This phenomenon is growing here in BC…but the problem is an instantaneous glut in the supply demand ratio can result . if one figures how mnay condo units each hi rise contains. Bob Rennie’s bio has him being one of the 1st to foresee this “condo’s are the future” but this will be a pattern for the future of boom- bust and equally greedy Local Gov’ts pimping building permits and all the revenues that result.
Once the economy tanks. the dominos fall and any hi rise project can go broke overnite
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NO -LYMPICS Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 9:00 am
While not a left winger, I foresee a bit of an uprising by the BC citizens if this sort of crap continues. The Local Gov’ts are run in a bunker mentality ignorant and indifferent to their own constituents. When their own citizens cannot afford to live in the same City and possibly even the same Province….that basically implies a sell out to other interests with little if any stake in the community. Anytime I drive around at night and view these hi rises…the “no lights on” ie nobody home ratio must be about 10-1. Its no different than the stock market….simply speculation . I think the whole dam thing should collpase and we simply start over..
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betamax Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 9:23 am
Country expected to ‘escape recession, but just barely,’ says senior economist
From later in the same article:
“…the U.S. economy is expected to start coming out of recession next Spring.”
LOL. Yah, right. If that’s what they’re predicating our ‘escape from recession’ on, then we’re toast.
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Mold City Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 9:49 am
Raincouver, the final paragraph of that Sun article really inspires confidence:
Vanoc also said in its statement that is “confident in the city’s fiscal management” of the Olympic project. It long ago transferred all of its risk in the project to city taxpayers by giving Vancouver $30 million in venue financing it received from the provincial and federal governments.
So they’ve transferred ALL risk to city taxpayers?!? I guess Vanoc does know what they’re doing, to bad the government doesn’t seem to.
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Bubble Lad Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Vancouver is a one-industry town, the only industry being real estate and property development. It reminds me a lot of Oshawa and GM – they RUN the place, and they’ll tell you what THEY think you need to know, and when they say “jump” the politicians say “how high”. Anything else is complete wishful thinking. OF COURSE Vancouver was going to get the bid, and OF COURSE the taxpayers were going to be on the hook for every over run and delay and stubbed toe the developers suffered, and Vancouver will pay the price for the next decade (at least) for the Olympics and the RE bubble, while Gordo and his back-slapping cronies at Marathon etc take your cash and laugh in your face.
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Raincouver Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 10:16 am
#51 Mold City -
So they’ve transferred ALL risk to city taxpayers?!? I guess Vanoc does know what they’re doing, to bad the government doesn’t seem to.
Yeah, I flashed on that statement, too. Seems they took the money from the Province and the Feds, handed it to the city and washed their hands and walked away. $30M is just a drop in the bucket. Sweet deal for them.
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jesse Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 10:24 am
I have the solution! The city can put up more financing to complete the project but will require an equity stake in Millenium as compensation. That way taxpayers can enjoy the upside when this thing blows over.
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dbcooper Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 10:37 am
That way taxpayers can enjoy the upside when this thing blows over.
hate to tell you this but there is no upside, at around $1000 per sq. ft. this development will be underwater for the rest of this century …
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patriotz Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 11:07 am
VANCOUVER – Vancouver’s Olympic legacy is at risk due to the economic uncertainties sweeping the world.
Tumbling stock markets, tightening credit lines and slumping investor confidence could erode many of the gains that Olympic organizers are hoping will flow from the 2010 Games, economists warn
Gee I think I’ve heard that kind of talk before… who was it… oh yeah…
From the people who opposed the Olympics from the start.
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VancouverBanker Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
The asking price psf for Olympic Village ranges from about $800psf up to $2,500psf.
Millennium totally screwed up the phased launches and presales. Millennium is toast, and the taxpayers will definitely be on the hook for this one.
I know lenders in on this deal; they’re not worried because they will all get paid back by the City worst case. As a taxpayer, it makes me sick.
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VancouverBanker Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
“Global ran a piece on this. NPA mayoral nominee / insurrection leader Peter Ladner says the city has made no commitment to intervene but will be there to “mitigate” any risks to the taxpayer. Thanks for looking out for me, Pete.”
That is an outright lie. The City has signed a completion guaranty and is on the hook to finish the project no matter what happens, end of story. Worst case, they will kick out Millennium and get a blue-chip developer like Concert or Concord to come in and finish things. Should have taken one of the established developers in the first place, they could much more easily absorb the cost overruns and also may have sold the project better.
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VancouverBanker Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
“My question is does that mean pre-sale purchasers are buying a lived-in condo?
I’d hate to be the guy purchasing the unit used by the US Men’s hockey team.”
Yep, exactly.
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VancouverBanker Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
“NO -LYMPICS Says: October 6th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Ah yes, reality bites. This Olympic Village was fishy from the start….the price paid was exhorbitant. I hope the whole thing crashes and burns, the whole Olympic endeavour disgusts me. My view is that the financing will dry up due to the global credit crunch …and the suckers that bought into these $1000 sq/ft pigeon holes will bail….the locale ain’t that great, so the price paid was already way over the top. However, how will Vancouver lose…didn’t they make a pile selling the land? PS Good comments by others, my compliments.”
FYI, the financing is already arranged for Olympic Village, that won’t go anywhere. The cost overruns will either by covered by the developer, or the City will take over and fund it themselves.
However, I’m also curious about how many buyers will bail when their condo is underwater, not to mention the several hundred units that haven’t even been launched yet!
Regarding the City getting money on the land, you’re going to love this fact of information…. the land purchase is included in the project costs, so the City only gets paid for the land from the sale of the condos. So if they don’t sell all the condos, the City doesn’t get paid!
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VancouverBanker Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
“Noname Says: October 6th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
bcubbins said “Only 60% sold!!!! I wonder how long it will take to sell the remainder?”
And how much of that 60% will back out before completion?”
It’s not even 60% in fact. That’s only 60% of the units that have been launched. There are still several buildings yet to come!
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Vansanity Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Cheers to Van Banker for the details on this. This story is so very disturbing on so many levels. I don’t know where to begin. Our city is going to be in such a World of hurt post-Olympics.
The perfect storm is looming and it is ugly.
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gdub Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
I’ve noticed that the swarm of workers at The Pier development in North Vancouver has disappeared. Nobody on site at all. Anybody have any ideas?
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Noname Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
In other news the TSX just closed down 400 pts today to finish at 9,829 – Those are some thick slices of salami. I think the index is down about 33% from June’s high. Dow closed down 450.
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alexcanuck Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Dow down 508 at close. A last-minute plunge. A tech anal guy would read something into that.
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MickeyFinn Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
There’s a liquidity crisis out there boys & girls.
Everything we could previously take as a “given” as regards investing and finance should now be questioned. Support levels for stocks have turned-out to be nothing more than road-side rest stops as stock prices have zoomed by those support levels heading further South everyday and setting new lows like politicians make election promises.
The liquidity crisis is affecting the Olympic Village and it will surely affect the overall Vancouver real estate market.
Remember real estate prices are like any other traded asset, so the price is set by the sale made “at the margin.”
Given the financial upheaval, buyers will stay “on strike” and at least some vendors are going to be forced to sell (you can count on it with all the financial turmoil… some Vancouver real estate owners will experience a margin call). When those two events collide – a buyers’ strike combined with desperation sales – you will see some sales at low prices. Those sales will set the new standard… it’ll be “mark to market” for the rest of the real estate.
In other words, buyers will focus on the new low selling prices as they are set… naturally lowering the bar just like with stocks. A vicious circle of price reductions (if you are long Vancouver real estate that you need to sell).
Fear will prevail for at least some period of time.
Bring it on.
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Eren Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
i think we deserve this. damn bulls and their dreams. we are going down fast and furious. we will be worse than where we started. i am very pessimistic, hmm, maybe financial meltdown.
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bdk Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
It’s over now isn’t it? Is there anyone out there who thinks the market is a good idea?
It’s too bad a lot of these people didn’t take a step back and think that 25 years is a long time and the huge loss that it takes to continue to “own” a rented unit downtown at a loss of $2,000/month when one wants to expand and have a family.
The hidden wealth evaporation will be the baby boomer parents who’ve gone and put a mortgage on their principal residence in order to fund their childrens’ condos “if we don’t buy now they’ll be priced out forever”
Even Dave,Krish & dosh realize now the market is toast, there is not a single person left in Vancouver who thinks it’s a good idea. Has anyone ever seen a situation where negative investor sentiment led to gains?
Especially given the thousands more units coming that underfunded specuvestors had planned to flip to non existent buyers…..
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BBY Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Hey bdk, I think Vancouver real estate is a good bye…
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james Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
If cope gets elected it will be social housing. They’ll move all the crackheads away from the Woodwards development and into the Millenium.
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betamax Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Even Dave,Krish & dosh realize now the market is toast
LOL. Yah, where are all the realtor trolls today? You know they have time on their hands.
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Mr. Market Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Vancouver is a world-class shitty.
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richard Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Take away the construction industry and “Canada is left with a mere 500 new jobs,”
oh oh…
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NO -LYMPICS Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Vancouver Banker…thanks for the info and comments.
I recall reading a while back Peter Wall getting scolded by his fellow developers for having the audacity to pay over $100 per sq. ft for land in the False Creek area . When I did the math for this Olympic Village raw land price, I couldn’t believe it, it made Wall look like a piker.
All these deals involving any level of Gov’t are becoming synonymous with all sorts of bizarre contract language…but it is also a sure bet the the elected officials have exposed the taxpayers to all sorts of legal and fiscal liaibilites to ensure their pet project happens. I think enough is getting enough, even though I don’t live in Vancouver….maybe Gordon Campbell will step in and all the rest of us in BC have to help bail Vancouver out….oh no !!!
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NO -LYMPICS Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Vancouver Banker…Thanks for the info and comments.
I recall reading a while back Peter Wall getting scolded by his fellow developers for having the audacity to pay over $100 per sq. ft for land in the False Creek area . When I did the math for this Olympic Village raw land price, I couldn’t believe it, it made Wall look like a piker.
All these deals involving any level of Gov’t are becoming synonymous with all sorts of bizarre contract language…but it is also a sure bet the elected officials have exposed the taxpayers to all sorts of legal and fiscal liabilites to ensure their pet project happens. I think enough is getting enough, even though I don’t live in Vancouver….maybe Gordon Campbell will step in and all the rest of us in BC have to help bail Vancouver out….oh no !!!
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Dave's Therapist Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Dave is on a break.
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alexcanuck Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Re: Olympic village. Given the record of hedge funds in producing lasting social benefits (Pirate Capital says it all, some really bad thing have been done in the name of profit.), if the project is taken over by the city, probably helped by Gordo, this could perhaps be a less bad thing. The city couldn’t possibly leave a worse legacy, and at least more of the money would stay here. Maybe. I’m not too hopeful. Hence less bad, not good.
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disbelief Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
So let me get this straight. Somehow the sweat of some of the worlds greatest athletes make these suites worth $2500/sq. ft. To me it isn’t worth $250/sq ft after sweaty pigs the worldover have used your suite for 10 days. I think we have found the greatest fool (village idiot) who would pay anywhere near $2500/sq. ft for any place in the frozen rainforest. Listen you can almost hear the price of real estate drop as we type….. I can.
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JB Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Russia and Brazil crumble as commodity prices crash.
The entire complex of commodities and emerging market stocks, bonds, and currencies is now in free-fall as the economic crisis spreads like brushfire, threatening to draw every corner of the globe into the vortex of recession.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/fin.....crash.html
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I want my tax ollars spent wisely Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
I think we should start a legal fund so that when the Olympic bills come in we can take the shysters to court for a possible refund to the taxpayer.
There will huge bills,especially for security.
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bdk Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Coincidentally there is no Dave here and Dave’s websites latest article was written by his wife
Maybe he’s taking a vacation from sitting around in coffee shops attempting to skew the cold hard facts by disrupting several blogs simultaneously with his truthiness.
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patriotz Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Dave’s not here.
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bdk Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
I’m Dave man c’mon man I’ve got the stuff on me man
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NO -LYMPICS Says:
October 8th, 2008 at 6:42 am
Good point MickeyFinn:
Real Estate is simply like any other traded asset. Hence, it is affected by the same market forces of the day ….which in this case is a lot of speculation . Maybe people should read about Holland’s tulip speculation a few hundred years ago…oh yeah, Bre-X or Dot.com bomb more recently.
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Clam Chowderhead Says:
October 8th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Umm wouldn’t a frozen rainforest be just a snow forest??
The prices also tops out at $1000/psf not $2500/psf not that it’s cheap but it’s a real number.
Anyways anyone that has read the follow up articles has learned that there is no more issue, the developer will complete on time just not on budget, there is no cost to the taxpayers.
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Disbelief Says:
October 8th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Even at $1000/psf you would have to be a chowderhead (idiot) to buy one. And no the value doesn’t automatically go up after a steroid monkey top athlete sweats all over it. Maybe the next Olympics Vancouver gets might be worth $1000 psf but in 2008…NOT
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Mario Says:
October 13th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Here is my opinion – I would strongly recommend that you think twice before purchasing a Millenium developed unit….my colleague purchased one, and has had nothing but trouble. Metrocan construction will not, I repeat will not fix your deficiencies, and have cut so many corners, there are problems with new units….and Metrocan is the same contractor used for the olympic village. If you see the millenium/metrocan partnership, then run the other way…
What am I talking about, well, my friends unit wasn’t properly plumbed, so feces and urine would leak from the top unit down to his living room. Metrocan’s response: This is normal. Millenium, What goes around, comes around!
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renterskeeprenting Says:
November 7th, 2008 at 2:08 am
I think the posters on this site are morons and or simply never owned property in their life and probably never will. The fact is coal harbour, false creek north water front locations are not going to be affected. Most people who own are affluent and there is non of this bs 5 percent down garbage. Most have atleast put down 25% and have a 1500 loan and if they sell they will not take a low ball price. I know hundreds of people in False Creek north who own and have purchased 1 bed or even 2 beds for 400 to 1 million. most of the people i know have 25% debt on the place if that. To you wishfull renters hoping to sabatoge the market and get a deal in the future to you i say …..(middle finger) have a nice day. and you pansys are bitching about paying 160 bucks so our olympic village can be completed and a huge developer who has poured 100s of millions of his own money in to the economy and litterally employes and has paid for tens of thousands of people’s living and family costs and you are bitching about 160 bucks per person…I think i need a barff bag…excuse me while i throw up people in false creek spend $160 in a day at urban fair for a pack of gum and some groceries for 2 days.
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Glug GLug Glug Says:
November 7th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Just another feather in Sullivan, Ladner and Campbell’s hat. Great job boys!
Campbell’s announcement to freeze home assessments was a ploy to keep assessments high so they could keep the mill rate low next year, so they could say that taxes weren’t rising so high, yet still pocketing more money to pay back the 100 mill, if the payout stays hidden. Ladner’s attempt to whitewash this with his appearance on Bill Good this morning (Fri.Nov 7) on AM980 was eerily like Colin Hansen’s “deer in the headlights” look when he was questioned about the Winter Olympics security budget figures by Vaughn Palmer on Voice Of BC on Shaw cable a week ago, Thursday October 30th. They just keep stepping in it, don’t they? And we thought the Fast Cats were bad. Those ferries sitting in the Burrard Inlet are going to end being Campbell’s legacy to BC, the way he gave them away to Washington Group. Add that to the 30% Hydro increase to be added by another 13% this January and we got them thieving left and right.
Greatest place on earth Gordie? Hope your UBC penthouse condo paid for with BC Rail payola dives like all condos in Vancouver. Or is that the reason he’s freezing assessments????
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Anonymous Says:
November 22nd, 2008 at 12:11 am
The evil Millenium people are also trying to destroy a heritage building in downtowm Vancouver known as Maxine’s Hideaway. They’ll rape Vancouver’s taxpayers and then they’ll erase its heritage. These people have no humanity and need to be stopped at all cost!