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January 5th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
HOLY SMOKES
LOOK There is no fear whatsoever on the face of superstar city of this world,hard rock inventory has been collapsed and new numbers are at 9810 while snow pile is still on the street,Oh Vancouver Boom2 Countinue to take Vancouver into boom2 by storm.WHAT AN AMAZING SUPERSTAR CITY ON EARTH.
January 5th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
#45 dboy, if you believe that you have either just arrived, been away for a year, like to listen to the news stoned or want to buy this really cool bridge I have for sale.
#47, you might like this site
http://dollarcollapse.com/
they have a great real estate section
January 5th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
Hmm :
Idea for TV Show:
( Sick of the renovation shows)
More timely topic:
” Condo Survivor “, how to ride it out .
No holds- barred methods to keep from being foreclosed on as price crashes.
10 people are each given a condo with a 0/40 mortgage.
Winner = ____?(keeps it? OR can bail ?)
==========================================
From Wall Street Journal
“In Avondale there was a 576-square-foot shack which was owned by a bankrupt woman with a history of substance abuse and was recently declared unfit for human occupancy. Less than two years ago a local mortgage lender arranged a $103,000 mortgage for the unemployed occupant, Marvene Halterman. The mortgage, of course, was destined to go into foreclosure because Halterman had no money and hadn’t worked in 13 years.
But the lender, Integrity Funding, which picked Halterman out of a phone book to cold call, didn’t care. That company made $9,000 in fees, and then sold the loan to Wells Fargo bank, which sold it to a unit of HSBC bank which packaged it into a securitization with 4,050 other mortgages and sold it to scores of investors, after Standard and Poor’s and Moody’s had given a Triple-A rating to the offering. One of the investors was the Teacher’s Retirement System of Oklahoma, which put half a million dollars on the line.
The Halterman property went into foreclosure, of course, was bought by neighbours for $18,000 and torn down. More than 1,000 of the mortgages that HSBC packaged and sold have turned to dust, which means tens of millions of dollars evaporated. Across the US, just over $4 trillion in similar loans were sold in a single year. Many investors are only discovering now, they – and the massive banks that financed these – are ruined.
Meanwhile in Avondale, where about 70,000 people live, one house in nine is now in foreclosure. ”
January 5th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
This may be slightly off topic, but HGTV is premiering a new home porn show this month about RENTING! It’s called “For Rent”. I’m sure that it will be in line with the rest of HGTV’s pro-home-enslavement mandate and they won’t be congratulating renters on savvy money smarts, but rather helping them to buy more home accessories to ease the paint of this transient state.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
# 43
11 percent is for the year. If the stats from peak in May are used it is probably more like 16 percent.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Greetings
“How much will the Olympic Village cost you?”
This is the topic of the thread. I ask myself the same question. So assuming I am a renter in Richmond:
I do not pay property taxes.
I rarely park downtown Vancouver.
I do not use public transportation.
So the answer is… Nothing? Can it be that simple?
Best regards,
arit
January 5th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
#37 . IPSOs REID poll announced today that 74% of British Columbians expect property prices to decrease further in 2009. That doesn’t help the cheerleaders case does it.
BCTV however differs with published stats saying on the news hour tonight that prices were only down 11% ( was that supposed to read ‘this month’.
Gregor Roberts flubbed his first test at Mayoral leadership leaving Vancouverites up to thier ying yangs in snow. He fled to Mexico when he got snowed in after two weeks of indecision, leaving behind all the seniors, schools , hospitals and residents to fend for themselves. ” Let them eat Cake” says Queen Gregor.
#39 Thanks for the pointers, people who complacently file the tax assesment they recieved today ( saying ‘Oh Thats not to bad’) should also have considered that it is not the tax bill they will recieve from thier city / municipality when the huge holes in thier budgets have to be public information.
I wouldn’t think that a cut in services is going to be the first option, tax/service cost hikes are coming , big time, no doubt.
***** Think ‘snap provincial election’ before the tax bills come out.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
Q4 economic #’s will reflect to seizing up of the credit markets – numbers will be BRUTAL … I believe most the damage will be done in the first 6 months especially after the “everything will be better in the spring – house price rebound” doesn’t materialize.
15-20% downside in benchmark and 20-25% in real price declines on there way.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
The detached price is 16% below peak.
I believe that the prices will stabilize for the next 3 to 4 months and then continue their downward trend for the remainder of the year. December 2009 will be another 15% to 20% down from today’s prices.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
highlands
Don’t forget carrying costs (strata fees/taxes etc) …
January 5th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
Post # 28
Realpaul said
QUOTE:
#25 theres no guarantee that COV won’t introduce ‘residency taxes on renters’. Desperate cretins at Translink are pushing a ‘car’ tax again, why think tenants are safe when the billions owed on the Vancoc fiasco come due. After all, where is all this money going to come from?
Draconian policiy initiatives are being floated in every juridiction as revenues shrink and city /municipal budget projections implode. Expect to see some real idiocy emanate from the folks at City Hall. You don’t think they’re going to roll back thier raises do you?
=======================
Local Gov’ts are obligated to balance their budgets.
They have (2) basic choices:
(i) raise taxes etc. or
(ii) request permission of the taxpayer for a loan via a referendum.
My guess is the Vancouver Public would shoot down/ “nuke” the referendum, and the City doesn’t want to get embarrased by this.
That leaves the only ” sure thing ” financing option…an across- the -board raise in taxes, fees , fines and most likely a cut in services.
The Sun columnist threw around a bunch of numbers.
If one considers just the interest costs for the required financing , they are talking Tens of Millions of Dollars of debt to service annually.
( I wonder how bad the hit is if they just cancel the 2010 Olympics…can’t be all that bad, can it? )
Yep
2010= “Go for the Gold ”
( as in gold watch, gold jewelry, gold teeth …)
January 5th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Condo rents dropping, check this out:
Listed at $2500 Dec 26
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.....09186.html
Dropped to $2380 4 days later
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.....70294.html
Dropped to $2500 yesterday
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.....75457.html
January 5th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
December benchmark is down $18k for the month… that is more than $500/day saved by not buying.
So if you paid less than $500 a day on rent in Dec, than you’re better off renting than buying?
January 5th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Mayor Gregor and Vision Vancouver already tried to ” play with the condo market”
Georgia Straight article from Nov. 2008
” Vision Vancouver’s condo policy questioned”
By Charlie Smith
A promise by Vision Vancouver to end street homelessness by 2015 has garnered a lot of attention following the November 15 civic election. But another part of the party’s platform—a pledge to “unlock vacant condo units as rental properties”—hasn’t generated nearly as much coverage.
Prior to winning Vision’s mayoral nomination, Gregor Robertson mused publicly about imposing a speculator’s tax on vacant condos to entice owners to add them to the rental pool. The Vision platform claimed there are “thousands” of these empty units across the city.
=====================
However, one of the city’s most experienced condo managers claims that whoever dreamed up this plank of the Vision Vancouver platform has a “poor understanding” about how strata corporations operate. Gerry Fanaken, CEO of Vancouver Condominium Services Ltd., told the Straight in a phone interview that there aren’t thousands of vacant units in the city. “The whole premise here is false,” Fanaken insisted. “There may be a few that are sitting vacant. It’s true that maybe developers in a down market might have vacant strata lots…but in terms of properties that are already established, there is simply not that kind of inventory.”
Fanaken’s company manages 175 buildings containing approximately 16,000 units. He said that under the Strata Property Act, strata corporations can create bylaws banning rental units. He said that about half of the buildings under his company’s management have no such bylaws; the rest typically set rules allowing no more than 25 percent of the units to be rented.
He added that it’s “highly unlikely” the provincial government would change the law to prevent strata corporations from banning rentals, because it would anger condo owners. “Strata corporations, as a general rule, try to discourage rentals because they are supposed to be owner-occupied premises,” Fanaken said. “That’s not anything against tenants, but it’s a different mindset.”
The city would have to offer huge incentives to encourage more units to be rented, Fanaken said. “Strata corporations and strata councils are not going to unlock, to use that phrase, on nickels and dimes,” he claimed. “It would have to be substantial, and I think that would defeat the whole purpose of the scheme.”
================================
If Gregor and crew had any remote clue about stratas, they wouldn’t have embarrased themselves with this idea which apparently has not been brought up again. I’ll still give them the benefit of the doubt, but time is running out, as they are already showing signs of poor judgement in making important decisions
January 5th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
This aforementioned Church vs State relationship exists, both overt and subtley…its not simply my “opinion”.
Put that way, I agree, and there is long historical precedent for power struggles from both sides; however, the historically recent, deliberate separation was not so much to avoid secular influence as to avoid another Inquisition.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
May benchmark 771k
Dec benchmark 648k
diff = 123k in 6 months or 184 days
$666/day (rounded down $2 for obvious reasons)
Sign of the beast …. aaaaggggghhhhh
January 5th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
#29 Mickeyfinn, you’re right to find this discrepancy staring you in the face. Even during an overall collapse there are figures introduced into micro market stats that skew the data for a variety of reasons, it depends on who wants what and whos paying the statistician.
It helps if you’re the one compiling the data, remember the ‘glory hole’ numbers that came out of the BCREA, GVREA, CREA and the real estate pimps like the Credit Unions etc. Where did those numbers come from.
A sane approach to take when dealing with any information coming from these pimps is to treat it with rank suspicion.
It’s easy to add or subtract data from a sample. When someones paycheque relies on not understanding the truth then why expect anything but lies. Remember the old line
” Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics”.
be afraid, be very afraid.
You have to look at the market in pieces ( sub areas of sub areas)to get an actual value for one unit on one block. The REBGV and untrained Realturds use broad samples, too much data for an accurate sampling.
An epicentic approach is one way to better gauge an individual market value through the undestanding of economic factors within that specific micro market. Even in the best neighbourhoods/sub areas, there are better and worse micro markets. Overlapping these stats are how the realturds mistakenly skew values up by compiling all data from broad swatches together with areas which have a differant economic profile. The term ‘location, location’, is allways bandied around but allmost no one understands what it actually entails.
You can’t expect a realturd with a five week license to understand the fine points of forensic evaluation concepts used by professionals trained in urban economics.
An example of false market estimation is seen in the Property Tax Assesments out today. In this case no data was collected instead the government relied on a political value. Bottom line, keep smart, as you are being in assuming that all is not right in the Real Estate Industry.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
Anonymous #30… yes okay the two benchmarks look like they are track pretty similar. Maybe I’m too distrustful of the benchmark but as I mentioned the places I have been following appear to have already dropped by more than the benchmark… then again, my sample size is small.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Considering that most people make less than $250/day, the FBs are losing at least $2 for every $1 they earn. OUCH!!!
January 5th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Matt Says “Why are our carpenters so hopeless at building wooden houses and condos that don’t leak and rot? ”
Because basically they are NOT IN CHARGE only certified engineers and architects!! And THAT my friend is why we have sloppy workmanship because as a rule none of them have the faintest idea of how to build anything other than for cosmetics!
January 5th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
MickeyFinn, see HPI and Benchmark Comparison. Both the new Case-Shiller style HPI and the REBGV benchmark track each other pretty well. I don’t see conspiracy but maybe I’m missing something.
January 5th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
December benchmark is down $18k for the month… that is more than $500/day saved by not buying.
I recall when guys in Calgary were bragging about the fact that their housing was rising by $500/day. Sweet coincidence.
By the way, in my opinion, that whole benchmark price thing is way too ripe for manipulation… and it’s in the hands of a biased group. The properties that I have been watching for the past year or so have dropped their asking prices by a larger amount than the benchmark has fallen. Make of it what you want, but that’s my two bits as regards the benchmark.
January 5th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
“I’m not too worried about Green policies as its just a protest vote. If they get close to government, I’ll be more careful. There’s nobody to vote for, really.”
True enough. In a lot of ways I hope Campbell does win, because he created this mess over the last term and deserves to bear the brunt of the blame during the next. The majority of people are not smart enough to do more than blame the government in power.
January 5th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
#24, you’ve been reading up on the facts, good for you.
#20 Anon, Gregor is a novice, thats just stating a fact nothing more. This is ‘his’ problem now no matter how you slice it.
#25 theres no guarantee that COV won’t introduce ‘residency taxes on renters’. Desperate cretins at Translink are pushing a ‘car’ tax again, why think tenants are safe when the billions owed on the Vancoc fiasco come due. After all, where is all this money going to come from?
Draconian policiy initiatives are being floated in every juridiction as revenues shrink and city /municipal budget projections implode. Expect to see some real idiocy emanate from the folks at City Hall. You don’t think they’re going to roll back thier raises do you?
January 5th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
# 22
Not really betamax
I actually used to think the same thing, but became party to an enlightening discussion on the topic.
When the CHURCH and STATE “separation” was made…the Church tends to be a relative constant in contrast to Gov’t which tends to be in a constant state of flux , a non constant, and catering to whatever will sway a majority of votes .
The ” state ” also granted ” Freedom of Religion ” in many jurisdictions.
Regardless, the Church still has “power” to influence the state through the democratic process,(though admittedly not to the same degree they used to) but not vice – versa. Gov’t tends to get its grimy greasy fingers in most areas of our lives…but has agreed not to regulate the Church. If Gov’t tried to, my guess is Gov’t would lose,lose badly and Gov’t knows it.
Gov’ts , in drafting this deference to the Church and immunity from Gov’t interference , was likely another political move to avoid future compromising situations/problems. (One could almosy classify it under the “Corporatism ” model whereby certain groups are given monopolistic powers to run their own affairs) .
This aforementioned Church vs State relationship exists, both overt and subtley…its not simply my “opinion”.
Think about it.
January 5th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
“Can they go after renters for VANOC screw up? Don’t worry< I know the answer.”
There is no way they can. If landlords try to pass on tax increases, again, just leave the City of Vancouver. Same goes if they nickel and dime renters with fees or there is a decline in services.
As for Gregor, he had the good sense to leave a provincial NDP that was going nowhere. He has a tough job ahead, but let’s give him a chance.
I’m not too worried about Green policies as its just a protest vote. If they get close to government, I’ll be more careful. There’s nobody to vote for, really.
January 5th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
“Soon after its peak (of land values and construction), the real estate market enters a slow phase. It is observed that prices are no longer rapidly advancing. Nominal asking prices stay high, but there are now few buyers. Vacancies rise. Building declines. The sale of bare land drops rapidly, and prices level off. In some instances, a financial panic or crash shatters real estate optimism, though it does not cause an immediate real estate price crash. The commercial crisis and business depression usher in unemployment.
The slackening of industry wears down land values. When the decline begins, it is longer than stock market crashes due to: a) the lack of short selling, b) the tenacity to which owners cling to mortgaged property, and c) the slow process of foreclosure (Hoyt, 1933, p. 407). During the downswing, the net income of real estate falls due to falling rents and increased vacancies, while mortgages and other operating costs remain rigid in the short term. There are widespread defaults on mortgages and other loans. The foreclosure rate increases. Unemployment and lower real wages further reduces demand for real estate. Some residents “double up.” To secure occupants, rents decrease. Many banks fail, having loaned large amounts to illiquid and fallen real estate, a phenomenon clearly evident in the recession of the early 1990s.”
January 5th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Dec Benchmark GVRD C$ 648,421 – down another 2.7% or $18k for the month.
Can they go after renters for VANOC screw up? Don’t worry< I know the answer.
January 5th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Patiently Waiting,
I agree. The BC NDP remind me of the US Democrats in 2004. The election is there for the taking but I think they’ll f*** it up because they’re focused on things other than winning the election. I’ll still vote NDP though because they’re the only ones who could kick Campbell to the curb. Plus the Green’s non-environmental policy is scary.
January 5th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
There is a saying about separating Church and State….It was not to imply that the Church influences the state, but to the contrary, so the State does not influence the Church.
A bit of clever revisionism which ignores centuries of history in which European states were grossly influenced by the Catholic church, hence the perceived need to strip the church of state-sanctioned power.
January 5th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
“Gregor Roberts is a novice, he’s fresh meat. Campbell is not going to ride in and save this bozo, as it’s been stated, Vancouver is on it’s own with this screw up.”
Whats with the Gregor hating. He wasn’t part of this deal. Campbell IMHO is the biggest bozo of them all. Campbell was the one in the front seat while our RE prices climbed out of control and raised government salaries while the goings were good. He’s a tool.
Campbell should have reviewed his history texts on the aftermaths of a RE boom and may be he would have been a little more prepared. The only thing he is going to do is delay the inevitable by trying to fast track small infrustructure projects so that the construction workers can have a couple more months off work before they get layed off.
January 5th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
“Broadly speaking, financial crises are protracted affairs. More often than not, the aftermath of severe financial crises share 3 characteristics. First, asset market collapses are deep and prolonged. Real housing price declines average 35% stretched out over 6 years, while equity price collapses average 55 percent over a downturn of about 3.5 years. Second, the aftermath of banking crises is associated with profound declines in output and employment.”
The above quote is economic history. There are so many good points on this string I congratulate you all, so far it’s a very sensible day on VCI.
Those who reject the lessons of history are doomed to repeat thier mistakes, I think that was Marcus Aurelias. It seems the City of Vancouver simply got caught up in the hype and now they are going to pay. But come on…. is there anyone left out there that believes that any of these vacant 6 million dollar condos at Millenium are going to be held in abeyance until the market recovers as was stated in the article?
IT TOOK TWELVE YEARS FOR THE REAL ESTATE MARKET TO RECOVER FROM THE DOWNTURN STARTING IN 1992.
Gregor Roberts is a novice, he’s fresh meat. Campbell is not going to ride in and save this bozo, as it’s been stated, Vancouver is on it’s own with this screw up.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Buy or Rent? Which is better
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/hometurf
January 5th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
# 16 Good point re: property values!
The pretty boy/girl looks of “world class” Vancouver may simply mask the lurking fiscal liabilities. People will begin to focus on their wallets versus the locale/view propoganda.
People may simply pull- up stakes , cross a bridge or bounce across Boundary Road to avoid this pending fiscal mess in Vancouver. Vancouver’s losses may be Richmond, North Van, Burnaby, New Westminsters etc. gain.
Get out while the getting is good ? , and be curious to track the increase in listings once word does gets out.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Can you say “House of Cards?”
Pretty much all of Vancouver’s numerous condo projects which are under development have one thing in common: leverage.
The developers have levered the projects pre-sales (and their own equity) against constructions loans and the buyers generally lever their purchases with mortgages.
Guess what happens when that leverage fest meets face-to-face with a global economic crisis that is focused on de-leveraging. Can you say melt down.
This is exactly what crushed the 37-storey Jameson House project… even though it had a very significant level of pre-sales.
The Vancouver real estate market is akin to a huge house of cards sitting on top of a coffee table… and someone just let the family dog back into the house.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
I guess if this gets really bad, it will force down Vancouver property values compared to some suburbs.
As for the next election, the BC NDP seems too weak. Normally, I’d prefer them to the Liberals (note: I’m currently voting Green) but the NDP just doesn’t have it together under Carole James.
In other parts of Canada, the NDP is trying to distance itself from unions. But here, I know from personal experience, CUPE runs the show. Not good.
They are also having harder time connecting to the ordinary lunchbox crew as they pursue extreme political correctness (white men can’t run in winnable seats). Until they start appealing to more than union activists and hardcore feminists, people like me will keep their distance.
The next election goes to the Liberals by default.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Post # 9
” Speaking of parking tickets, I got an impark ticket at best buy downtown and called them up to find an address to drop off cash – guess what, they don’t have one, cheque or credit only….hmmm, I didn’t know that companies are allowed to descriminate against cash in Canada”.
===========================
Parking Companies are D-bags.
I ignore them based on the premise that cost to take you to court (ie just the filing fees) often exceeds the ticket’s value.
In addition(and Playing “Lawyer” ) have a good look and take a digital photo of the signage they posted and compare this to the details of the infraction as the ticket should note .
Often there is a lot of inconsistency.
One major D-Bag parking company “Di*mond Parking.”..has signs posted that are unclear and ambiguous. They claim you will get “a ticket”. Yeah OK, a ticket to what??? the World Series?, Phantom of the Opera?, The Beatles Reunion?
Many of them do not lay out explicity the terms and conditions of the “parking” contract , these only show up and you are only aware after you receive a ticket.
They simply take advantage people’s fears and naivety(sort of like Realturds).
Or simply go to the store you were in an plead a good case so that they will tell the parking company to waive the ticket. Stores need customers, and this may be the quickest solution.
N/C !
January 5th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Actully I went to The Rise website and only counted 15 out of 28 units that are currently leased. Thats a little over 50%.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
The Olympic Villiage will not be a legacy of the 2010 Vancouver Olympics it will be a legacy of the RE crash in Vancouver.
Vacancy rates of luxury condo’s in the area is already high (ie. The Rise only 70% leased). Watch for vacancies to rise and prices to drop.
It will be a reminder for all to see of the consequences of a RE bubble.
POP
January 5th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Good points jesse !
It inspired me to put myself into Mayor Gregor and Premier Gordo’s shoes, given how integrated this web of intrigue is.
Gordo has an election in 5 months, and it may be close…or closer if more sh*t hits the fan.
If he tries to buy votes in Vancouver by assisting in this Olympic Village fiasco, other areas of the Province will scream blue bloody murder.
However, IF Gordo gets back in office , there is a tiny window of time (ie May-June)for him to help Vancouver before the Property Taxes have to be paid in early July.
I am not even remotely thinking this economic mess we are in is going to turn around. Vancouver needs HELP and desperately, and they aren’t even worried about the future sales and sales prices yet…they HAVE to build this Olympic village by Nov. 2009.
My best guess is they will access some sort of funding/loan from somewhere, and possibly , as you suggest, raise the taxes,freeze salaries,cut services, and nickel and dime everywhere else.
It was reported a few weeks back that Vancouvers so called “reserves” are actually a bean -counting of assets that can’t be liquidated very easily , ie many of them are real estate . It appears Vancouve blew most of its cash on hand on the Olympic Village already
However, they will try to delay/defer the impact of the solution till after 2010 and then I predict the Vancouver taxpayer will get whacked hard after the Olympic party has left town , starting with the July 2010 property taxes
The Joker in the deck is what Gordo will OR will not do, but Vancouver ain’t getting a freebie. The political(versu pragmatic) strategy I foresee is how much of a delay can they plan out till 2010 party is over , and thus not inspire a non partisan revolt and protest from everyone between Point Grey and Boundary Road.
PS one other thing;
If you do win the lottery and still want one of these condos… I am curious how the warranties would be honoured. Most Local Gov’ts(and I know Vancouver has its own Charter)have statutes of limitation for civil suits…often 6 months, so Vancouver “in theory” could be the last man standing as the General Contractor , but also the most protected if the units become lemons ie leakers etc. and their fall back position is this statute of limitations.
Buyer Beware !
January 5th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
YLTNboomerang: the Canadian government says:
January 5th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
I have an idea, put an additional income tax on real estate agents and any company related to the RE business.
January 5th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
I’m looking forward to a complete and utter failure of the OV. I don’t own in Vancouver city so any tax hikes won’t affect me other than perhaps pushing those that are already over-leveraged to sell at a loss.
As for parking meters, they only serve as a rationing device for a scarce resource, not a profit center, so an increase in rates won’t happen; fines might, but this is ok by me too as one should be punished for shirking the law.
Speaking of parking tickets, I got an impark ticket at best buy downtown and called them up to find an address to drop off cash – guess what, they don’t have one, cheque or credit only….hmmm, I didn’t know that companies are allowed to descriminate against cash in Canada.
January 5th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Attract high tech industry with corporate tax rebates. British Columbia is overly dependent on resources and has very little in the way of value added industries. Vancouver is perfectly placed as Canada’s gateway to asia. Why is our financial services sector so small? Vancouver also has two very good universities whose grads, if they’re worth a damn, leave for the US or Toronto. The post-secondary education system in BC is excellent but the graduates have no local jobs to go to. Finally, with all the wood that BC exports, why are there virtually no furniture makers? Why are our carpenters so hopeless at building wooden houses and condos that don’t leak and rot?
January 5th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Invoice my portion of the bill to the morons who voted yes for the olympics.
January 5th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
NO -LYMPICS, good calls, especially the last one. The potential gains would not have been shared and so should be the case with the shortfalls.
What will be the consequences of the fail? Higher taxes? Reduced services? Wage freezes for city workers? Increased parking meter fees and fines? All four?
Maybe to avoid some of this pain there are innovative things the City can do. Anybody have some constructive ideas?
January 5th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Re Olympic Village
It would be good to know the actual Fortress – to- Millenium connection and the pertinent/relevant details.
Regardless, the writing on the wall appears to be that Fortress and Millenium do not have the financing to complete, it will thus now be Taxpayer -financed.
If not mistaken(and the general rule that politial ego trumps all else), the top priority would be to complete “ON TIME” and avoid IOC penalties.
Social Housing?
I doubt it… given the City does have an obligation to its citizens to maximize a return, given this was intended to be a profit -driven investment. Social Housing ,either long term or short term , won’t allow for that, and will ultimately depreciate the value.
Provincial Loan or Bail-Out?
No Frikkin way…even City of Montreal had to eat their cost overruns.
All told….They are giving birth to a white elephant, no sense throwing good money after bad…especially in these tough economic times.
Vancouver actually had a vote on the 2010 Olympics…they approved it… live with the decision and its consequences. Or conversely was Vanocuver prepared to share their anticpated mega profits from the Olympic Village with the rest of BC? I think not, so they can’t have it both ways !!!
January 5th, 2009 at 11:56 am
They should have tried to pre-sale the entire project from the get-go.
I don’t know if they were holding back units to make a further killing later on or what they where thinking.
Guess the city will rent them out and flood the rental market until prices recover.
There’s your affordable housing!
January 5th, 2009 at 11:49 am
The very important point that was missed in that article is that Millennium is NOT going to be able to borrow the remaining money from Fortress to take the project through to completion. Fortress from what I have heard only has to fund the remainder of the facility based on certain presale milestones being met which will not happen no matter how hard Bob Rennie tries to spin it. Either way Fortress likely does not have access to the capital they would need to advance further funds. Keep your eye out for the next announcement (unless they try and keep it quiet) for the City or Province borrowing the additional funds to continue to finance the construction. I would guess this has either happened or will happen in the next 60 days as the last $100MM is going to run out soon if it has not already. I have also heard that the developer is cutting back on the quality of fixtures and amenities to save costs. Please tell me the City will not let this prime piece of real estate go to public housing when they are unable to sell any of the units. This should be on on the front cover of the Vancouver Sun.
January 5th, 2009 at 11:28 am
There is a saying about separating Church and State.
This saying has often been misconstrued.
It was not to imply that the Church influences the state, but to the contrary, so the State does not influence the Church.
Similarly, The City of Vancouver or any Gov’t should not mix the Public’s business with Private Sector ventures. With “perceived” reward there is a risk and a downside, which the taxpaying public should never be exposed to.
Welcome to the IOC mafia.
Oh so predictable.
Cutting to the chase…The IOC has suckered the City (as it has with other Olympic host cities)into allowing the Vancouver citizens to be ” Banker of last resort “.
Vancouver is already a ” world class” ground zero for overpriced Real Estate, an oversupply of condos, NOW THIS potentially major fiscal liability you, the Vancouver citizens cannot avoid ? This sounds like the 1976 Montreal Olympics boodoggle all over again.
Where is the real value in this site…you have waterfront (big deal) in what is stil an industrial/commercial area, and can look North and see the Yaletown towers plastered with “FOR SALE” signs on their windows ? Nice View!!!
At least the dinks in Richmond simply sold their lands adjacent to the Olympic Oval for CASH $$$. Vancouver quasi “joint venture” was both dumb and greedy.
I will envision the Olympic Village deal as a unique one….it has to be built according to plan, no corners can be cut and contractors will milk it to the hilt. Overtime costs may also kick in, but it has to be completed and turned over to VANOC in Nov. 2009.
Now you have a new Council that will be at the mercy of bureaucrats whose own ass is on the line. I can foresee major tax hikes for mid 2009 as they now prepare for their budgets. Vancouvers credit rating will TANK !!!
Don’t want to say I told you so ( but I did and many many times !)