302 Responses to “The continents most ‘severely unaffordable’ market”
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January 27th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Lily pad: Here’s a BNN clip from yesterday of a guy from kitco saying … the helicopter money will not be effective enough in creating inflation never mind hyperinflation.
What? A gold dealer saying he doesn’t expect inflation? Why, that’s like a realtot saying he’s not expecting RE to go up. Give these guys a gold star for honesty.
BTW, Kitco sells physical gold for just a few dollars above the “paper” gold spot price, contrary to the conspiracy theories of the gold bugs that the “paper” price of gold doesn’t get you the real thing.
They also have an excellent web site if you’re interested in historical gold prices.
http://www.kitco.com
January 27th, 2009 at 9:41 am
Tories hint at tax cuts for those earning under $80,000.
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/.....ancer.html
January 27th, 2009 at 9:34 am
Regarding The Varley at Brentwood
I pass by this development every day and have commented on the laughable junk the developer is throwing on the balconies to make it appear these units are moving.
They obviously sourced all the cheap folding chairs at the same place.
Yeah well I’m not laughing now. The starting price for this wood framed junk is $ 289,000. For that kind of money a body should, at least, be surrounded by several bedrooms and/or concrete.
Asking prices for this krap are purely stupid. Why a body wouldn’t rent is a complete mystery to me. If I could unload my condo (LoL) I would gratefully rent and save more than a grand a month.
January 27th, 2009 at 9:28 am
Canada budget to help home renovations.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reu.....enovations
January 27th, 2009 at 9:17 am
Realtard Dhall accidentially IS providing information that appears reasonably true.
Using “market snapshot” and “number of homes” it is obvious to a any turd that house listings in Delta/South Surrey are rising and sales have dropped to virtually zero.
http://www.marketsnapshot.info.....p;agentId={796dbd43-08a7-48e3-b115-213e867f577e}#
January 27th, 2009 at 9:00 am
Realtard marketing gurus need better material…
“Why pay your landlord’s mortgage when you can be building your own equity.”
Better question. Why take a massive hit to your equity when your landlord can take it instead?
http://surreydeltahomereport.com/default.asp
Interesting site that appears to be there to “help” the poor, informed public type sort through all the “opportunities” these days. Yeah well, thank realtard Ruchir Dhall for his ridiculously expensive and terrible advice.
January 27th, 2009 at 8:00 am
freako: Demographia uses median price ($492,600) – but I’ve never seen a source for their Vancouver numbers. If you use the GV Benchmark number instead ($648,421), the multiple for Vancouver goes up from 8.4 to a whopping 11.2!!!!!!
That’s some world-class overvaluation!
January 27th, 2009 at 7:58 am
http://watch.bnn.ca/trading-da.....clip133470
Here’s a BNN clip from yesterday of a guy from kitco saying they expect a low of $630 and a high of $980 for gold next year with an average price of $820/oz.
Why not $2,000 – $3,000?
First, he says India stopped buying — their purchase of gold has been down by 47% last year.
Second, the helicopter money will not be effective enough in creating inflation never mind hyperinflation.
But he does recommend everyone keeps 10% core insurance of their portfolio in gold.
January 27th, 2009 at 7:47 am
No-lympics:
Terrible analogy to a smartcar. I have one and love it. Very roomy and comfortable. No back seats, of course, that’s the point. But more room for me and one passenger than most vehicles except truly mammoth ones. More room and more hatch than any 2-seater sportscar. I put huge miles on for work, and it’s perfect. Second car of course, few people could find it practical as an only car. We’ve got a RAV4 for her, camping and the occasional need.
Keep on ranting, you’ll get your pulitzer yet. Just don’t slag something you know nothing about. At least not something I love.
January 27th, 2009 at 7:45 am
Post # 84 Patriotz
Good points
Using your math, why do they not sell ?
Must be in a hold position and waiting out the storm, thinking things will turnaround, and then they can go back to the original plan to sell.
My guess is they are thinking about one year wait and all will be well. Unless they are deep pocketed and can wait a long time, I think they will regret it and miss the boat as others bail ahead of them.
My guess is that the vacancy rate will shoot up and then we have a rental meltdown to accompany the RE value meltdown. Then people see rental , their last option, is a fiscal black hole ,and then this backwashes to more condo product for sale and an even greater flood of those who want to bail. Ugly !
BTW if it is rented, does that avoid the GST ?
I can’t see how they can afford to effectively subsidize rent when they have such a major investment meant to be sold and all the costs associated with it.
More money than brains? …but soon no money = no brainer !
January 27th, 2009 at 7:42 am
I was in the Pacific Centre Mall yesterday looking for a dress to attend a wedding and when I overheard a family at the EasyPay parking machine say “Nineteen dollars for parking?” They couldn’t believe their eyes. A passerby said the meters outside had been increased to $5/hour.
I said “But it’s the BEST PLACE ON EARTH”!
Everyone laughed hysterically, and the mother of the family said, “If you have a lot of money!”
January 27th, 2009 at 7:27 am
re H + H
Bowra has been trying to flog off this and a Richmond Hi Rise condo project for several months…before things tanked.
A few people have commented on H + H…it appears to be one of those shoe-boxes you can’t even swing a cat.
In a hot market , I guess developers try to create “an affordable option” , which correlates to smaller sq. ft per unit…like a condo version of the ” Smart Car”.
That model may have worked if prices kept rising.
Now it stands out in the condo glut as a bad idea.
Why buy it…I can’t see any value now or in re-sale later.
Avoid this and any other bad product. Perhaps Bowra senses this and wants to bail before the market collapses further and the real flood starts.
January 27th, 2009 at 7:19 am
Bloomberg story on the Olympic costs here. Kind of fluffy for them. I guess a story on backwater yokels getting taken by fast-talkers in fancy suits doesn’t get their best reporter.
January 27th, 2009 at 6:41 am
* Look at San Fran Case Shiller index: it’s close to the Demographia number. Vancouver’s number is waaaayyyy off, apples to apples.
Yes, I have argued that for years. I cannot reconcile the Vancouver number. I think our affordability is the worst in North America and has been for some time.
January 27th, 2009 at 5:00 am
NEW suites available for rent at Legacy Towers ranging in size from 1BR/1BA to 1BR/1.5 BA + Den (713sf – 963sf).
Prices range from $1,300 – $1,600.
Those numbers do not work for rentals, even if they can get the asking price which is questionable. If the market price is over 100x rent – and there is no doubt they could be sold for over that today – it makes more sense to sell them. The opportunity cost of holding is too high.
I wonder if it’s really the developer or someone else. I think the developer (or their bank) ought to know better.
January 27th, 2009 at 3:18 am
Another developer has given up on selling and is turning to renting:
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.....52616.html
Its Legacy in Burnaby. Those nice buildings in the middle of nowhere, overlooking a car dealership, the skytrain and a bowling alley.
January 27th, 2009 at 12:11 am
How are Vancouverboom2′s mom and Vancouver condos alike?
They both go down hard and fast and pretty soon you’ll be paying the same amount for either of them.
Sorry….. just had to say it.
January 26th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
terrible building H & H, such small and weirdly configured rooms. I saw a living room that was so tiny that your couch would be inside the kitchen area.
January 26th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
It is up than what ever they have sold for in presale,do you know the actual prices? Anyway buy those off location units from cost over run project that would be built in black marked investment go BDK Bowra love your 75k dp.
January 26th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Sales Date
The Receiver Manager will be accepting offers on a first come, first serve basis. All sales will take place in the Sales Center of the H&H building on February 7 & 8, 2009 between 1:00PM to 5:00PM.
All offers must be subject free. We recommend that all interested purchasers have financing arranged prior to the sale date.
Real Estate Commissions
The Receiver-Manager will honour all outside realtor commissions, if applicable.
*****ANYONE CAN BUY NOW FOR 40% LESS AND IT WILL SOON BE EVEN LOWER***** VANCOUVER REAL ESTATE NEVER GO UP
January 26th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
yeah once you got in it would be all good(best place on earth) go canucks get down from alex fraser bridge, go buy one bedroom condo in eastvan,it is only 5 minute drive to downtown,Sky is never going to fall on earth for you because hey?……..
January 26th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
developers, bankers and city say VANCOUVER REAL ESTATE GO DOWN DOWN DOWN and floods real yaletown making future “not actually in yaletown” tv towers worthless!
http://www.bowragroup.com/hhyaletown/index.htm
January 26th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Vancouver is the best city on the planet? True, if your planet consists of Surrey, Sudbury and any or all northern Alberta oilsands towns. There are many places worse than Vancouver. Vancouver is actually a fairly OK place to live. But world-class? The best? Really, truly, NO! I’ve been to some real world-class cities. Vancouver is so far out of the running it’s embarrassing to hear that phrase.
January 26th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
Vancouver Is the best city on this planet
January 26th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
“general theories are simply inappropriate,Any plausible theory must describe why house prices virtually “exploded” in some markets, while remaining at or near historic norms in other markets.”-5th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey.
Here is very simple answer to the theories.
VANCOUVER IS THE PLACE TO BE
Known for it’s gutsy instinct to stay immune at the time of global economy downturn compare to any other city of this world, with topsy turvey and curve appeal and tonz of indoors and outdoors activities Vancouver is the place to be,A place where buyers never walk away from presale agreements but it’s been experienced in the past that developers seems to be walking away with rising cost from condo project like Sophia and H&H now another developer choose to return back deposit to buyers because they had come to know the Law of physics does not apply in vancouver because hey Vancouver Real Estate Never Go Down.
120 buyers who signed up for the False Creek project, adjacent to the Olympic Athletes Village site, will get their deposits back while the company redesigns the project as rentals bye bye buyers In a result Inventory at 10,749 Soaked ,Interest Rates never seen that low ,average prices are up ,Economy is up 2 slot ,Vancouver Boom2 acquisition is In Progress, from north to south from east to west Ladies and Gentlemens Welcome to Vancouver Boom2 Right Away.
January 26th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
Banking crisis brings down Iceland government
Prime minister becomes world’s first national leader to step down as direct result of global financial meltdown
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl.....dit-crunch
January 26th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
What comes next is a ghostown.
Speaking of ghost towns:
The 390K log house in Greenwood is still for sale
Or 387K will get you this in Kaslo
On the other hand 380K will get you this house in Ottawa, but who needs jobs and services anyway?
January 26th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
Six Errors on the Path to the Financial Crisis
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01......html?_r=1
QUOTE:
The answers, I believe, are yes and no. Our capitalist system did not condemn us to this fate. Instead, it was largely a series of avoidable — yes, avoidable — human errors. Recognizing and understanding these errors will help us fix the system so that it doesn’t malfunction so badly again. And we can do so without ending capitalism as we know it.
My list of errors has six whoppers, in chronologically order. I omit mistakes that became clear only in hindsight, limiting myself to those where prominent voices advocated a different course at the time. Had these six choices been different, I believe the inevitable bursting of the housing bubble would have caused far less harm.
===========================
The authors lists six “whoppers”in the article.
January 26th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
romeojordan:
It appears to be. i googled it and could only find this craig’s list post:
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.....69777.html
Real estate is going down faster than than a hooker at a sex trade convention!
January 26th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Yes, my point was that I’m seeing more nicer places for maybe 10-15% less than you would have seen them go for about a year ago. Not in huge numbers yet, and still sitting in the middle of a lot of places going for the standard numbers and a few places going for ridiculous wishing values. All the same they’re there.
January 26th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
Tom Says “then you look at the rental market and you see at best a small reduction. ” They are down about 10 to 15 % on average year over year. Impossible to get a 2 bedroom last year for less than 2200 this year fairly easy for 1800 to 2000. Keep in mind I only look at private condo’s which are not included in CMHC stats. Surprised how many Condo owners “one off landlords I call them” actually think rental stats apply to their units.Totally different ballgame. As a side income I manage 14 Condo units for all independent owners. We have kept our rents the same now for two years. We like long term residents no hassle types, and do not need the stress of move in move outs every third month to make a 100 bucks (which we wouldn’t make as almost 100% of units are vacant for a month or two! Our rates (Condo’s less then 10 years old complete with on-suite laundry) 1 bedroom 1400- 1500. (With reaL DEN), TWO BEDROOM 1800, to 1900 with real den! Sorry no vacancy…ever. We like our present tenants.
Oh yea that would be False Creek Waterfront we don’t have any North of Pacific. THEY should be quite a bit less!
January 26th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
dboy,
is that real?
h+H has a 40% off original price sale??????
January 26th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Not sure if this is old news. I nicked it off Garth Turner’s site – greater fool.
Yaletown H and H are having a belated boxing day sale. 40 percent off:
http://www.greaterfool.ca/wp-c.....n-sale.jpg
January 26th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
crashandburn:
“It’s good to smash”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl.....baleconomy
January 26th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
China fears job riots
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WO.....index.html
January 26th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Tom: The 1% vacancy stat that so often gets quoted is misleading. That a CMHC statistic that only tracks property management companies that are renting out multiple units. Anyone renting out a townhouse, condo or suite in their house is not included in those stats.
If you look at the flood of listings on craigslist you’ll see that quite a number of them are from small-time or amateur landlords and are not included in the official stats.
I hardly think rents are falling dramatically, but they are going down, and thats from a starting point that only covered half the ownership costs anyways. If you’re a good tenant it’s also a good time to pressure your landlord for a rent cut if you’re considering a move but wouldn’t mind staying where you are.
January 26th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Now, when the going gets tough the tough get going
Ex Nortel engineer’s new venture
Sex toy buzz helps launch ex-Nortel engineer’s startup
Company spent $500,000 on vibrator’s research and development
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/s.....4:r2:c0:b0
QUOTE:
“This is, to me, not a sex toy. It’s an electromechanical device,” he said. “We truly look at it from a scientific point of view; in terms of plotting the x-y charts of power versus performance, versus the third dimension of the human dynamic: What frequencies do women like?”
QUOTE:
“Dad was pretty quiet about it. Mom was — she absorbed what I was saying. I think she was glad to hear that we had income now.”
===========================================
Rennie, Muir, etc.
RU listening ?
January 26th, 2009 at 5:43 pm
Post 59 Bubble Lad:
These groups can claim whatever they want.
Maybe they should…that way they can prevent a riot.
Shite, much of my own family still thinks this is a minor economic fart…so I just leave it alone. Other VCI posters, via their own anecdotes, have forewarned the rest of us of what a social leper one will become if one speaks the truth.
January 26th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Who Knows:
Maybe there will be an exodus from the City shiteholes?
People may nuke the ratrace and go back to a more simple existence ie go rural. Survival mode tends towards minimalism and self -sufficiency,does it not? You can’t do that in the City without some NIMBY prick or prickette whining, right ?
January 26th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
I heard that the still the vacancy rate in some parts of vancouver is still less than 1% so i don’t see how rents are coming down. Maybe just in yaletown. This site thinks the world is coming to an end and then you look at the rental market and you see at best a small reduction.
January 26th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
So here’s a partial list of the Coalition of BC Businesses (the ones putting out those incredibly patronizing ads):
BC Real Estate Association
Building Supply Industry Association of BC
Canadian Home Builders’ Association
Independent Contractors and Business Association
Building Owners & Managers Association
So let’s see…they’re pro-Liberal, the liberal Premier has ties to his old pals at Marathon Development, and the coalition is made of of land developers…
This is a riddle inside an enigma…
January 26th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
Re: 200,000 jobs lost in January, is that in Canada?
Re: Forestry, agreed. I have ties back to the Kootenays, my family was raised through the industry. My father retired years ago. Over a year ago the mill in my hometown shut down. The union workers laid off. The non-union workers were fired on the spot.
We lived through a few mill shutdowns, most brief. What’s happening this time, is completely unprecedented. I believe the 15,000 jobs numbers, if true are only considering mill workers. What people don’t get is the ripple effect. For example: trucking/transportation, pulp, land sales, logging infrastructure.
Nevermind the fact that the small community I’m from depends on the survival of the mill. Without the mill, you lose the main economic driver for the whole area. What comes next is a ghostown.
I believe the 15,000 is less than the truth. I recall reading an article last year where it said the number of workers connected to lumber normally ran at 215,000 in BC and had dropped to 100,000. Wish I could find that source.
January 26th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
The Demographia report will eventually be picked up by local media. Vanc’s 4th place ranking of ‘severely unafforable’ just hammers it home.
I hope by April the deniers will just go away. there will be a point where these pumpers can no longer deny reality.
Side note: I am starting to noticed all the condos I was tracking come back on the grid after having fallen off at the end of December. I am sure some of you are noticing the same.
January 26th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
Bubble Lad:
The politicos and thier advertising paying dogs are going to keep up a full court press on the BS until the election in 5 months for sure. You are smart to be paying attention and having the ability to recognize BS whan you see it.
January 26th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Mold city:
It’s a fact , the media panders to advertisers AND drank the Kool-Aid..
http://www.americanthinker.com.....tters.html
there are hundreds of books published on media dishonest practices.
re-quote from Garth Turner
All around us now is an envelope of disbelief and denial. Leading the charge, as documented in my last post, is the real estate industry, followed closely by the MSM, and then the government. These forces cling to the belief that by downplaying the reality of the situation they can ameliorate it.
How true it is. He said today in his blog that the realtards were making pronouncements to young media who were poised to eat them alive.
January 26th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
45 – truthin’ advertising – I don’t know if this is related to your post:
http://www.votebcjobs.ca/
But it seems like there is some SERIOUS damage control going on out there. I hear about three patronizing ads from these goofballs a day on the radio while I work telling me about how great the BC liberals are and everythin’s hunky dory.
January 26th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Microsoft reveals that foriegn workers are the first to go. Oh Oh thats not politically correct is it?
http://economictimes.indiatime.....033788.cms
January 26th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
I should add, why does Demographia think the US Rust Belt has non-restrictive land use policies? Could it be that people are leaving these cities in droves because there are no jobs? Of course local governments there will do anything they can to encourage development when their tax base is moving away!
January 26th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
truthin’ advertising: I don’t think there’s any media conspiracy, I think the answer is simpler than that: They drank the kool-aid.
During the boom the Vancouver Sun had how many pages filled with ads for townhomes, condos, presales, renovation services etc.? Ad revenue is a hard drug to kick and I believe they are simply in denial.
It’s like boiling a frog – forestry has been in decline for so long most people don’t even notice the constant stories of layoffs. Many of those could find work in construction during the boom, so it wasn’t so bad, but now with construction falling off (and looking to crater in a couple years) what’s going to happen?
The party is over and now the bill has to be paid. You can only hide from the collection agents for so long. The Media will face reality eventually, but they report events AFTER they happen, not before and not while they’re happening. They’re still hoping that positivity is all that’s required to get our market booming beyond all reason again.
January 26th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Demographia, what an asinine survey. Here are some quick pedantic factoids from the report:
* Oshawa is included in Toronto
* Canada has 100K threshold for city status where Australia only needs 50K.
* Look at San Fran Case Shiller index: it’s close to the Demographia number. Vancouver’s number is waaaayyyy off, apples to apples.
The report obviously has an agenda to reduce land use restrictions and letting the free market take hold. Detroit, Cincinnati, St. Louis, and the rest of the American Rust Belt are in their good books for having few barriers to development. Obviously they’ve never been to Vancouver or they’d see there is MASSIVE oversupply looming for the next few years. Restrictive indeed. Hilarious.