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January 12th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
O Please read this carefully. “Asking to change the Charter to BYPASS THE REFERENDUM PROCESS AS REQUIRED BY LAW !!!!!”
The current city council wants to expunge the rights of the citizens. This is COMMUNISM at it’s very ugliest manifestation.!!!!!!!!!
“VANCOUVER – Vancouver city council will ask the provincial government to convene an emergency sitting of the legislature to give the city the power to borrow nearly $500 million to finish the Olympic Athletes’ Village.
Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson told reporters Monday that civic legislation requires the city to go to city voters to approve capital spending in a referendum.
The city wants the province to change the Vancouver Charter to allow it bypass the referendum requirement. He said the city needs $458 million to finish the village project.
Robertson underscored the urgency of the request, noting that the last $21 million of a $100-million civic loan to the project developer, Millennium Developments, will be exhausted by Feb. 14.
“The changes that we require would allow the city to borrow,” the mayor said. “The city is not authorized to borrow, particularly an amount of this significance, without the consent of taxpayers.”
NOw the citizens of Vancouver have no democratic right to question the actions of an out of control incompetant and fiscally violent political party????????
I don’t know about you but we need to be in the streets over this!!!!!!!!!!!
January 12th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
alexcanuck:
THX. I like to fling poo as much as the next guy, I just like to fling it in the right direction. And don’t worry about me, I have a few good lines left in the old quiver.
January 12th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
A Perfect example of government gibberish. They say in this article that prices are both going up and down, at the same time!!!!! This is very funny. Maybe a bit sad for those who have any faith in the veracity of government statements.
http://www.vancouversun.com/Va.....story.html
January 12th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Realpaul:
Don’t let that trollish anonymous get to you, I like your posts, and want someone like you as my inspector when the time comes. You come across as someone with a clue or two, not just a poo-flinging monkey intent on stirring up discord.
January 12th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
I’D LOVE TO SAY ” I TOLD YOU SO”!!!!!!
As I posted several days ago I proposed that Vancouver would try to float a bond issue at egregious rates of intrest. And TaTA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Here it is.
These bozo’s may be getting thier ideas from VCI !!
http://www.vancouversun.com/Ci.....story.html
This means no more new books in the classroom for at least two generations, but don’t be surprised if the teachers and other civic workers go on strike to suck any extra dollars out of the basket. You heard it here first.
January 12th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
NO -LYMPICS:
You’re right to point this ‘obselesence’ thing out. I always wondered why the government was so silent on these well known issues. These failing envelope issues were well known in professional circles long before the bulk of the units were built. The very first building failed while under construction ” The Galleria” on West 8th ave in Vanc. I studied the ongoing mess as an appraisal student. The interior hallway ceilings were bowed down with water intrusion.
The argument is ‘are the staff at city halls everywhere in the GVRD simply grossly incompetant’, or did they have something else in mind, like ‘building turnover”?
There was an old saying I remember from the 60′s that stuck with me, it went ” Just because you’re not paranoid, it doesn’t mean they aren’t after you”.
I believe personally that there is a social engineering agenda and a high level of incompetance and thatis showing up in spades on the Millenium Project as an example du jour.
January 12th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
SupraBoy
QUOTE:
“You know what the problem is? I’ve stated all along, as long as they’re not selling, and as long as they can continue to make mortgage payments (which is a piss in the bucket for them), prices aren’t coming down anytime soon. Even if a million dollar home is now worth 600k, they’ll still listed for 1.2 million. So in the end, no supply, no demand, therefore, too bad, “you’ve been priced out by rich asians.”
True.
In many cases, you only lose IF you sell
However, why make mortgage payments???…that does not imply they are “rich”…. but does imply their financing is subject -to monthly cash flow, which may be disrupted given the global economy.
You don’t own it till the final payment is made, it’s “rent to own ” till then.
Also “Life’s a dim sum bitch and then you die”.
Are these friends of your immortal ?
If and when they do die, my guess is the estate will sell at current market price, cash in and run for lots of Tsingtao beer .
January 12th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Anonymous:
you must be a child or be havin’ one of them thar larnin’ disabilities. I sold building projects and buisness opps to new immigrants. I watched them build the crap the city signed off on. Maybe you’re dislexic or have a reading comprehension issue.
Today I see idiots making offers on condos that have been registered as leakers, thats the type of stupid we are all talking about on this forum.
Today I see ‘sandwich meat’ making offers on condos even while the bottom is falling out of the market. Are all these people going to come back and want the government to get thier losses back? Thats the kind of folly we are trying to point out in this forum.
Trusting government, media and quasi public orgs like REBGV , CREA, CMHC, Credit Union Economists, RealTurd spokes/salesmen is where 100% of your problems begin. You are simply to stupid and naive to understand which tree to bark up.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
253 Anonymous Says:
January 12th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
NO -LYMPICS: Blame your architect and Gov’t, everybody in between is generally following orders according to the plan in front of them.
———————————————————-
———————————————————-
So you were in on it, too, eh?
=================
BTW I copy and pasted this from the previous “Friday Free For All ” discussion
If you don’t understand that , Anonymous, which realpaul also posted a similar reply in Post # 29 , then you are simply a DUMB-ASS Troll ……versus simply a Ha ha Funny Troll or ……even a Devil’s advocate Troll
You are making VanncovuerBoom2 look like Einstein.
Gov’t could create a far more stringent code that would reduce or eliminate the problems.
So why doesn’t it ?
I mentioned a few weeks back a PBS documentary which followed the planning and construction of a NYC Hi Rise. The Developer took the design of their building envelope, built a mock up, and subjected it to testing in a Lab. Any flaws that allowed such things as water infiltration were detected and fixed before actual construction commenced.
Why doesn’t Vancouver or BC insist on such due – diligence?
I have heard “rumours” that they (Gov’ts)do not want things to last more than 25 years…they want building turnaround….”planned obsolescence”.
Remember that strata comples(name escapes me..on PoCo or Burnaby I think)built under the Barrett NDP Gov’t which was a legendary leaker disaster..maybe the original leaky condo..it got so bad a developer came in and bought them all out and tore it down and built new condos (BTW they needed 100% ownership consensus and I recall it was down to one holdout before they to gave in)
That may be the wave of the future.
BTW Anything I build is built like brick shithouse.
It is actually easier to do than build crap.
Crap takes much more effort and charges more.
BTW I have done Home Inspections for people.
PS: If you are yawning, that is a sign we should put you to sleep.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
economic tsunami headed for canada
http://www.theprovince.com/Bus.....story.html
this can’t be good for the real estate market
January 12th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
john and supraboy are what you could call
“collateral damage”
otoh bv2/satv has an actual title: MFA
(monkey feces analyst)
most of his postings come after the taste test
January 12th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
NO -LYMPICS: “Peak Oil? yes it exist …..but when?
There is “X” amount of oil on this planet. How much? Who really knows?”
Peak oil speaks to production, not reserves.
To expand: Yes, there is lots of oil around, and lots of things approximating oil, like oil sands and oil shale. The thing about peak oil theory is that none of this matters; the important conclusions in peak oil theory have nothing to do with the amount of stuff in the ground, but with the rate and cost at which it can be extracted. In a nutshell, peak oil theory observes that we tend to go for the easy stuff first, which leaves us with an increasingly difficult task to get out what’s left. Technology helps, in fact it is crucial, but it is unlikely we’re going to ever compete with the old days when you could drive a pipe into the desert and get essentially pressurized gasoline flying out of the ground.
We passed US peak oil production in the ’70s. I don’t know off hand whether or when Canadian production peaked. Price volatility is a predictable outcome of reaching global peak oil production, and it is reasonable to suspect that our recent price run-up was in part due to reaching a production ceiling which may or may not be a global peak in oil production. Yes, speculators went stupid, yet again. But if anyone could produce more oil at US$150 a barrel, you bet they would have.
I guess I’ve outed myself as a peak-ist, haven’t I? MrBear is a positive bear, but he lives close to his workplace.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
NO -LYMPICS: You’re getting tiring. Yawn.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
“PS
Supraboy…tell you and your familes Rich Asian friends
to bail now !!!”
I told them, but they’re not listening. They said, “as long as we don’t sell, we haven’t lost.”
You know what the problem is? I’ve stated all along, as long as they’re not selling, and as long as they can continue to make mortgage payments (which is a piss in the bucket for them), prices aren’t coming down anytime soon. Even if a million dollar home is now worth 600k, they’ll still listed for 1.2 million. So in the end, no supply, no demand, therefore, too bad, “you’ve been priced out by rich asians.”
January 12th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
there is no way vancouverboom2 is serious.
He/She is just a disturbed freak who thinks saying really dumb things on the internet all day is fun. it probably doesn’t even live in vancouver it just mimicks what it reads others writing.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Re COV and Millenium deal
Anyone catch the news afew minutes ago ?
Just heard that the Mayor Gregor had a press conference.
Details :
–won’t be asking the Feds for a bailout(Translation = the COV probably asked the Feds and were told to F*ck – off).
– will be going to the Province of B.C. for “INdirect” assistance
In essence they are requesting permission to amend the City Charter so that they can borrow funds directly ( which implies that they will not use the only option normally available to them ie holding a referendum and seeking voter approval . Obviously they know what the Voters answer will likley be (Hint: see Feds answer above aka F*ck – Off)
Conclusion…if this is true, and the details will undoubtedly be forthcoming soon,… what I read into this is Fortress Group is either toast, or won’t cough up any more funds….and the City of Vancouver is seriously H-O-O-P-E-D !
The very fact that such powers exist to actually limit a Local Gov’ts powers to borrow money above and beyond the annual budget WITHOUT direct Voter approval , and now Mayor Gregor and crew wants this “Voter protection” amended …..should concern each and every Vancouver citizen.
In essence, the writing on the wall looks fiscally pornographic. This will get U-G-L-Y .
Watch the shite hit the fan….. RE collapse and otherwise.
PS
Supraboy…tell you and your familes Rich Asian friends
to bail now !!!
January 12th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
anybody here from John?
You know the guy with SUVs and Van condos guy. He believes the beaches here are better than the ones’ is california ie Venice, Hermosa Beach, Manhattan Beach. They have year round usage we have 2 months tops
January 12th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
realpaul: So the builders are innocent angels.
January 12th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Alexcanuck
As I said , I read the link…
I never said Peak oil, the worldwide credit crunch or recession were irrelevant, per se, in fact these variables are often intertwined.
Peak Oil? yes it exist …..but when?
There is “X” amount of oil on this planet. How much? Who really knows? I don’t think anyone does…but it is a DeBeer- like cartel. Sometimes they get greedy and there is a major backwash in the economy.
Credit Crunch? the evidence suggests a variety of massive ponzi schemes throughout the world that denied the fact these houses of cards always collapse. This latest one on a global scale even sucked in many of the so called smarter and bigger players into the same black hole.
Recession(see above)
My cynicism goes waaaaaay back in the early 1980′s…the huge RE bust… reading “LIARS POKER”……scared money from Hong Kong……the Dot.com bomb in the 1990′s ..and seeing so much development at a pace previously unheard of.
This latest was simply a broken record no- one seemed to see as a re-issue/ sequel of history.
60 Minutes feature = simplistic?
Well they say if you use Occam’s Razor methodology to tie the supposedly loose ends together, it becomes the more probable conclusion.
I think 60 Minutes does that and quite well. I don’t think Ritholtz gets it.
PS
FYI: they are not “rants”, but worthy candidates for future Pulitzer /Nobel prizes dammit !!!
January 12th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
realpaul: As long as you can sleep at night that’s the main thing. I’d rather pay $2,000 for the olympics than $70,000 for an assessment on one of your leaky condos. Figure it out.
Sounds like you have rationalized away any responsibility a long time ago and the more you tell yourself you are an honourable guy the more you believe it. Well, not everyone thinks the way you do.
It’s just like the city council who are rationalizing away their olympic spending.
January 12th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
Need $458 million? sure, just change the city charter
this is so sad.
January 12th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
squidly77:
Arit, great flames
unemployment figure show the situation muich worse in the US than is being touted. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to extrapolate these numbers onto the CDN labour scene
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm
And BTW anonymous there are over 200K leaking condos in Vanc, they were all built to code. You are being hornswaggled with the same info/BS from COV that the media has bizarrly left unchallenged all this years. They don’t want to accept any liability for having designed, engineered and inspected these structures.
You’re running around with your hair on fire when the real enemy is your elected representative. Look Kiddo, as builders we submit plans to city hall they are either code or not, it’s the city that demands the type of design and materials used, if you don’t know that then you shouldn’t think you’re qualified to voice an opinion.
The CONDOS LEAKED BECAUSE THE CITY KNEW THEY WOULD. Figure that out if you can. I think it was input from union orgs that were trying to build obselesence into construction projects to make work for thier members.
January 12th, 2009 at 11:55 am
NO -LYMPICS:
No-lympics:
Have you read any of Barry Ritholtz before? Because he is anything but a boom-booster as you seem to think. He is one of the few who did call the bust we are currently in, he also called that oil was going to spike like it did BEFORE it took off. You may not like the way speculators can affect the market and the huge damage done along the way, I certainly don’t like it, nor do I think capital should be allowed to run amok the way it does, but to try to deny the reality of how the world works can be very detrimental to your personal financial health.
Barry is well worth taking seriously. I like your rants, don’t stop, but do try to stay grounded as well. You seem to imply that peak oil, the worldwide credit crunch and recession are irrelevant factors, and to believe that takes a stunning amount of faith, the faith normally seen only in Vancouver RE specuvestors. Faith in the opposite direction, of course, but faith nonetheless.
January 12th, 2009 at 11:46 am
Scullboy :
VB2 is the exact opposite of that scenario. I used to try insulting his mom with extremely graphic descriptions of her night time occupation,(=_____________?) but that just annoyed some of the real posters here.
REQUEST: Please fill in blank.
P.S.
Are we talking graveyard shift worker at Surrey Tim Hortons or that Telephone solicitor from the call -center in Mumbai ?
January 12th, 2009 at 11:36 am
scullboy: Some decorum, please. Poo flinging monkeys resent being compared to inarticulate trolls.
January 12th, 2009 at 11:32 am
vancouver now down $122,900..plunge o metre
January 12th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Questionmark:
Dude, you’re wasting your time. VB2 isn’t a bull, he’s a poo-flinging monkey that somehow escaped the testing facility (and plainly they were testing something nasty), found refuge in an office with a computer and has been flinging his poo all over VCI ever since. He doesn’t understand anything you tell him and…well… obviously he doesn’t really get English either.
Remember that saying about an infinite number of monkeys in front of an infinite number f typewriters producing the works of shakespeare?
VB2 is the exact opposite of that scenario. I used to try insulting his mom with extremely graphic descriptions of her night time occupation, but that just annoyed some of the real posters here.
Since he’ll never go away, and he’ll never change his tune, you just have to either ignore him, or consider him to be the unrestricted id of the local RE owners, too greedy and stupid to understand cold hard reality.
January 12th, 2009 at 10:45 am
vancouverboom2: are you retarded? I don’t mean to be insulting, if you have a learning disability I think its good that you’re able to operate a computer, but its very confusing that you keep posting barely understandable comments about assessments and prices never going down. Our market is crashing bad and everyone but you seems to know it.
I know its shocking that Vancouver house prices have dropped by over $100,000 in just 6 months, but its time to face reality man. House prices in Vancouver are crashing bad and have a long way to go yet.
Closing your eyes and plugging your ears doesn’t change reality, it just means you don’t know whats going on.
January 12th, 2009 at 10:34 am
VancouverBoom2 (aka legpuller)
I posted this yesterday
QUOTE:
Landcor Data Corporation, which analyzed the region’s property assessments, still found 54,183 homes in Metro Vancouver and the Fraser Valley top the $1-million assessment mark—an increase of 1.5 per cent from a year ago.
The increase is the result of construction of new seven-figure homes as well as renovation of existing homes that increased their value, Landcor president Rudy Nielsen said.
It’s a modest change compared to a year ago, when the number of millionaire properties soared nearly 50 per cent as regional real estate prices were still rocketing towards their peak.
The largest numbers of $1-million-plus homes were counted in Vancouver (28,532), West Vancouver (10,679), Surrey (3,932), North Vancouver District (2,986), Richmond (1,910), Burnaby (1,886) and Langley Township (1,344).
======================================================
NOTE the REPORT:
” It’s a modest change compared to a year ago, when the number of millionaire properties soared nearly 50 per cent as regional real estate prices were still rocketing towards their peak.”
It clearly states 50% or HALF the “Millionaire” properties were created over a year ago (ie in a relatively short time period).
It’s fair to predict most of these nouveau riche’ will have tipped BELOW $1 Million as we speak, as well as many of the others that were already at $1 Million plus before this latest 50% joined the ” Millionaires Club “.
” Poof” goes the House/ATM.
January 12th, 2009 at 10:23 am
Arit can you add a frame with vancouverboom2/satv/time etc jumping from one of the high rises? That would be sweet.
January 12th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Love the graphic, sending it to people that plan to buy or think the market is going to turn positive in the spring.
January 12th, 2009 at 10:15 am
Yep..
I can see some guy/gal that looked at their A-S-S-E-S-S-M-E-N-T from last year.., saw the house assessed at say $999, 995..pissed right of it wasn’t $1 Million …..and going to Home Depot with their debit card and spending $ 10,000 on new fixtures including Brass address numbers and granite toilet seat.
Then they call BC Assessment and insist on a new (higher)assessment. Then they say “I am now a Millionaire… My house (aka ATM) make me rich “!!!
These are probably the Rich Asians SupraBoy says will not sell for less…..YET !!!!…while their “round eyes” neighbour takes $800,000 in a collapsing RE market with a shite- eating grin on their faces as the U – Haul leaves for Kelowna.
January 12th, 2009 at 10:14 am
Gadwin,
Vancouver is going to be the biggest meltdown EVER!!!!!!
Its the perfect storm. There is absolutely no hope of Vancouver Real Estate recovering in real dollars.
NONE!!!
Vancouver will be paying off their olympic debt for the next 40 years. Look at Montreal, they just finished paying it off. 35 years of slump.
January 12th, 2009 at 10:07 am
BTW: It’s an animated gif, so you can actually right click it, save it, and mail to you preferred Realtor TM. Just so they know what’s coming their way…
Cheers,
arit
January 12th, 2009 at 10:06 am
gadwin,
I am with you. Vancouver will put the rest on North America to shame. My rudimentary gif might actually be underestimating it…
Best regards
arit
January 12th, 2009 at 9:49 am
Inventory is going to explode this spring and prices will drop so fast, we’re going to have a real estate apocalypse.
Move over Phoenix, because Vancouver is going to become the biggest real estate meltdown in North America!
January 12th, 2009 at 9:40 am
BOOM2 ASSESSMENTS
Notice of assessments are a result of three different value in comparision for example: 2007,2008,and 2009.Last year CM thought that property values might going to collapse in 2009 assessments notice but results are totally opposite now what?.CM just wanted to keep his words as soon they will release assessments beyond july,2008 those values are already advanced.
BOOM2 INVENTORY
Most of you knew it very well that future inventory has sold out based on their year and months of sales, only five percent rebounds are expected when projects will come to complete by months of year,five percent of 3779 unit would make total of 189 units( approximatley). Resale Inventory in Vancouver Is at 10056 Only.
$1 MILLION HOMES IN VANCOUVER
The largest numbers of $1-million-plus homes were counted in Vancouver (28,532), West Vancouver (10,679), Surrey (3,932), North Vancouver District (2,986), Richmond (1,910), Burnaby (1,886) and Langley Township (1,344).Because hey Vancouver Real Estate Never Go Down.
January 12th, 2009 at 9:09 am
Blueskies:
who got burnt?
ANSWER:
Burn victims = ( Worlds population ) – ( the hedge fund oil specuvesting profiteers )
who had the asses handed to them on a platter?
ANSWER: I am sure the asses you refer to had a “golden parachute” $$$tuffed up the sphincter/poop -chute.
If they were over water….Shite floats.
The rest of us were , as usual, meat in the grinder.
January 12th, 2009 at 9:05 am
Western countries don’t produce real goods anymore. We’ve become nations of paper shufflers. Without scams like excessive real estate debt and oil speculation we would have felt the full pain of losing our production capabilities. Thankfully the oil and real estate bubbles were over in a relatively short period of time.
January 12th, 2009 at 9:04 am
LOL! I hope its not quite that bad.
January 12th, 2009 at 8:59 am
Post # 6:
I read the rebuttal by Ritholz:
All I can say is he must be a Bob Rennie protege’.
He’s using the same BS propoganda since OPEC became a major player.
Look at the team and the players, not re-hash urban myths.
His point #6 borderline ad hominem attack on Mike Masters? What is he implying ?
Ox gored?
Actually, There is nothing better than someone who’s Ox has been gored…whose investments in energy sensitve stocks get compromised by sheer specuvesting greed from these hedge funds. They are the best to expose the chicanery. If Mike Masters Auto and Airline investments collapse, the OIL firms have lost a huge customer base that may never return.
These Oil specuvestors remind me of a haberdasher who shites in his customer’s hat, and expects not only full payment , but a big tip to boot.
If Ritholz was a realtor..he’d be saying Rich Asians will be flooding the BC market right after Chinese New Year.
January 12th, 2009 at 8:44 am
btw arit:
grody graphics
step away from the photoshop making machine…!
January 12th, 2009 at 8:43 am
NO -LYMPICS:
we know who the “winners” are/were….
who got burnt?
who had the asses handed to them on a platter?
would be interesting to know…….
January 12th, 2009 at 7:55 am
CBS 60 Minutes Specuvesting Scam (continued)
QUOTE:
( “Peak” Oil? Yeah right !!!)
Masters believes the investor demand for commodities, and oil futures in particular, was created on Wall Street by hedge funds and the big Wall Street investment banks like Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Barclays, and J.P. Morgan, who made billions investing hundreds of billions of dollars of their clients’ money.
“The investment banks facilitated it,” Masters said. “You know, they found folks to write papers espousing the benefits of investing in commodities. And then they promoted commodities as a, quote/unquote, ‘asset class.’ Like, you could invest in commodities just like you could in stocks or bonds or anything else, like they were suitable for long-term investment.”
QUOTE:
( Deregulation )
Asked if there is price manipulation going on, Dan Gilligan told Kroft, “I can’t say. And the reason I can’t say it, is because nobody knows. Our federal regulators don’t have access to the data. They don’t know who holds what positions.”
“Why don’t they know?” Kroft asked.
“Because federal law doesn’t give them the jurisdiction to find out,” Gilligan said.
It’s impossible to tell exactly who was buying and selling all those oil contracts because most of the trading is now conducted in secret, with no public scrutiny or government oversight. Over time, the big Wall Street banks were allowed to buy and sell as many oil contracts as they wanted for their clients, circumventing regulations intended to limit speculation. And in 2000, Congress effectively deregulated the futures market, granting exemptions for complicated derivative investments called oil swaps, as well as electronic trading on private exchanges.
QUOTE:
(Enron Rises like Dracula)
(CBS) “Who was responsible for deregulating the oil future market?” Kroft asked Michael Greenberger.
“You’d have to say Enron,” he replied. “This was something they desperately wanted, and they got.”
Greenberger, who wanted more regulation while he was at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, not less, says it all happened when Enron was the seventh largest corporation in the United States. “This was when Enron was riding high. And what Enron wanted, Enron got.”
Asked why they wanted a deregulated market in oil futures, Greenberger said, “Because they wanted to establish their own little energy futures exchange through computerized trading. They knew that if they could get this trading engine established without the controls that had been placed on speculators, they would have the ability to drive the price of energy products in any way they wanted to take it.”
“When Enron failed, we learned that Enron, and its conspirators who used their trading engine, were able to drive the price of electricity up, some say, by as much as 300 percent on the West Coast,” he added.
“Is the same thing going on right now in the oil business?” Kroft asked.
“Every Enron trader, who knew how to do these manipulations, became the most valuable employee on Wall Street,” Greenberger said.
QUOTE:
(The fat lady sings)
But some of them may now be looking for work. The oil bubble began to deflate early last fall when Congress threatened new regulations and federal agencies announced they were beginning major investigations. It finally popped with the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers and the near collapse of AIG, who were both heavily invested in the oil markets. With hedge funds and investment houses facing margin calls, the speculators headed for the exits.
“From July 15th until the end of November, roughly $70 billion came out of commodities futures from these index funds,” Masters explained. “In fact, gasoline demand went down by roughly five percent over that same period of time. Yet the price of crude oil dropped more than $100 a barrel. It dropped 75 percent.”
QUOTE:
(How bad was the OIL Specuvesting?)
Last year, 27 barrels of crude were being traded every day on the New York Mercantile Exchange for every one barrel of oil that was actually being consumed in the United States.
( 27 -to- 1 ratio WTF ??? )
======================================================
So, whether it be Olympics,Global Real Estate, OIL…etc. that was a huge bubble created and manipulated behind the scenes in the backrooms which we all heard go poooffff , but leaving an unprecedented mushroom cloud in its wake..
They are all fairly well -integrated as well. Every time one filled- up….one had to sense there was a major scam in behind the scenes.
We need to re-draft International Laws…and re-define “Crimes against Humanity” , to include such blatantly abusive (and borderline criminal ) white – collar crime which had no intent other than to lie cheat steal and wreak havoc, and in such cowardly fashion.
January 12th, 2009 at 7:54 am
That 60 minutes piece was fairly simplistic. Of course speculation played a part, but it neither started the bubble nor ended it. Peak oil and the economy are more powerful underlying factors. Speculation just exaggerated it, that’s all.
See Barry Ritholtz for more.
January 12th, 2009 at 7:29 am
SPECUVESTING
Did Speculation Fuel Oil Price Swings?
60 Minutes: Speculation Affected Oil Price Swings More Than Supply And Demand
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....7770.shtml
VCI and other Conspiracy Theorists: Pay attention !
A VCI poster had noted a while back a story whereby some fund manager confessed to another party that the many of his colleauges had hit the RE specuvesting bubble “wall” , that golden goose was milked… and needed another cash cow, and that cash cow ended up being specuvesting in OIL.
60 Minutes had it on yesterday.
I provided the link,(above) and you have a choice of video or written transcripts.
I’ll post some nuggets.
WHAT IS FUTURES MARKET?
To understand what happened to the price of oil, you first have to understand the way it’s traded. For years it has been bought and sold on something called the commodities futures market. At the New York Mercantile Exchange, it’s traded alongside cotton and coffee, copper and steel by brokers who buy and sell contracts to deliver those goods at a certain price at some date in the future.
It was created so that farmers could gauge what their unharvested crops would be worth months in advance, so that factories could lock in the best price for raw materials, and airlines could manage their fuel costs. But more than a year ago those markets started to behave erratically. And when oil doubled to more than $147 a barrel, no one was more suspicious than Dan Gilligan.
QUOTE:
(New age specuvesting scam)
“Approximately 60 to 70 percent of the oil contracts in the futures markets are now held by speculative entities. Not by companies that need oil, not by the airlines, not by the oil companies. But by investors that are looking to make money from their speculative positions,” Gilligan explained.
Gilligan said these investors don’t actually take delivery of the oil. “All they do is buy the paper, and hope that they can sell it for more than they paid for it. Before they have to take delivery.”
“They’re trying to make money on the market for oil?” Kroft asked.
“Absolutely,” Gilligan replied. “On the volatility that exists in the market. They make it going up and down.”
QUOTE:
(aka who are these scumbags?)
Asked who was buying this “paper oil,” Masters told Kroft, “The California pension fund. Harvard Endowment. Lots of large institutional investors. And, by the way, other investors, hedge funds, Wall Street trading desks were following right behind them, putting money – sovereign wealth funds were putting money in the futures markets as well. So you had all these investors putting money in the futures markets. And that was driving the price up.”
In a five year period, Masters said the amount of money institutional investors, hedge funds, and the big Wall Street banks had placed in the commodities markets went from $13 billion to $300 billion. Last year, 27 barrels of crude were being traded every day on the New York Mercantile Exchange for every one barrel of oil that was actually being consumed in the United States.
“We talked to the largest physical trader of crude oil. And they told us that compared to the size of the investment inflows – and remember, this is the largest physical crude oil trader in the United States – they said that we are basically a flea on an elephant, that that’s how big these flows were,” Masters remembered.
QUOTE:
(Record gouge/rip-off day)
If anyone had any doubts, they were dispelled a few days after that hearing when the price of oil jumped $25 in a single day. That day was Sept. 22.
Michael Greenberger, a former director of trading for the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, the federal agency that oversees oil futures, says there were no supply disruptions that could have justified such a big increase.
“Did China and India suddenly have gigantic needs for new oil products in a single day? No. Everybody agrees supply-demand could not drive the price up $25, which was a record increase in the price of oil. The price of oil went from somewhere in the 60s to $147 in less than a year. And we were being told, on that run-up, ‘It’s supply-demand, supply-demand, supply-demand,’” Greenberger said.
QUOTE:
(More damning evidence)
“From quarter four of ’07 until the second quarter of ’08 the EIA, the Energy Information Administration, said that supply went up, worldwide supply went up. And worldwide demand went down. So you have supply going up and demand going down, which generally means the price is going down,” Masters told Kroft.
“And this was the period of the spike,” Kroft noted.
“This was the period of the spike,” Masters agreed. “So you had the largest price increase in history during a time when actual demand was going down and actual supply was going up during the same period. However, the only thing that makes sense that lifted the price was investor demand.”
(To Be Continued)
January 12th, 2009 at 6:54 am
Nicely done, Arit! But where is the final frame, with the multiple “price reduced” stickers?
January 12th, 2009 at 6:35 am
Don’t quit your day job
January 12th, 2009 at 6:33 am
Envelope please…
…and the Golden Globe for ” Picture is worth a thouand words ” goes to
Arit !!!! (of VCI Ltd.)
Arit:
Too Funny:
January 12th, 2009 at 6:27 am
Arit: Those graphics are really bad. God bless you.