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February 11th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
realestatesplatter
Last point. Why is it during the build up to and during every strike the BCTF is shouting about ‘the kids’, class sizes, special needs, libraries etc etc, and then as soon as they get a big signing bonus you never hear another peep from them.
It seems to me that they are just using as children as pawns in the union greed swill game of use the publics weaknesses against them so “e can get a big fat bonus and more diamond studs in our pension plan” It is kind of sickening after the 10th time or so.
=========
Most of us old school types graduated from the public school system, and received an excellent education , both formal and informal.
That has allowed many of us to cut throught the BS.
The school system has got it all bass ackwards. It coddles and confuses people with terms of reference like ” social justice ” and ” self -esteem “.
In my view that creates weak and selfish people, ie the exact opposite via the chase to the lowest common denominator.
There is all the featherbedding with support staff, who the teachers pawn the students off on if the concepts are not grasped. That starts its own vicious circle of the student as a badminton birdie left treading water.
Granted there are some very good public schools…but why is it so hit and miss ?
All it takes is such things a new Principal with a new so-called vision and it can go downhill very quickly.
In essence its all about money , benefits ,membership numbers = union dues and political influence to achieve the aforementioned.
February 11th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
jesse just made the point I would have.
Nolympics seems to think kids’ performance on that test will be equal across all schools provided an equal level of instruction is provided (and the FSA would therefore evaluate teacher performance) which is nonsense. Obviously different areas of town will have kids of different social and economic backgrounds and therefore different outcomes on testing like this. Point Grey vs. E Hastings, for example.
The one major objection to the testing is to not to get into a self fulfilling prophecy where more engaged parents of brighter kids select schools with better test scores, which results in better test scores for those schools because the brighter kids happen to be there. With the result that those kids are creamed off from the rest of the system, and the schools with poorer test scores get more kids with “issues” or from unstable family contexts or what have you, and therefore get poorer test scores. And hey presto, the local school turns into a hellhole because the smart privilged kids are commuting to the west side.
But, hey, I have kids and I did my utmost to get them into a really good school. Lofty ideas about equity and systemic balance fly right out the window when you talk about your own kids. So, mark me down as ambivalent.
February 11th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
realestatesplatter: “I thank the Fraser Institute for publishing the school stats ( FSA) it was a real eye opener and I saved my child from a slow drift into hell by realizing I had to pull out of the Surrey School district and fast.”
You did the right thing by being selfish and self-selecting. Look at it from the BCTF’s standpoint though. If everyone does what you do the disadvantaged schools start slipping farther down the slope and allowing them to fail is the government and the teacher’s problem to clean up in the end. Whether you agree or not, we need a meritocracy and that involves helping and advocating for underperforming districts. The alternative is social stratification. Just saying, don’t completely blame a school district’s failures on the union. A lack of vision at the provincial level is equally to blame IMO.
As far as this relates to housing and condos, well now you know why some areas have higher prices than others.
February 11th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
realestatesplatter
Awesome post !
Re the FSA’s
I don’t claim the FSA are the be all and end all ..but they at least give one some sort of point of reference.
However, I do not find it a coincidence that schools with good reputations do well on FSA’s
I have found the evolution of teaching fascinating. There is a person (name escapes me ) in the US who was on ex hippy..bought the edcuation kool aid..till LO AND BEHOLD had his own chidren in the public system. He then re-evaluated it and harkened back to the public school system he went through in NYC the 1950′s and the modern day one.
Now he is a vocal critic of the current public school system, when comparing it with what he considerd was an excellent public system that he had graduated from .
He makes a lot of keen observations. He stated that something as simple as the desk orientations ie in a circle are not conducive to learning , that the old rows of desks created a better learning environment. The BCTF etc would state that the circle/hexagon configuration is more social justice communal oriented.
One amusing anecdote he had was a person that looked dishevelled and homeless wandering around the school playground which conerned him. Upon further inquiry, he found out that person was actually a school district employee that they couldn’t fire(strong union) and was simply sent to that school for appearances of a job .
February 11th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
NO -LYMPICS:
I have some first hand experiance with the varied competance of individual school districts having put a child through school in three. I made the huge mistake of putting my child into the Surrey school district in Gr 1. I thought the cheap real estate was of some benefit so I bought a house close to a school in Cloverdale.
By the time Gr. 3 came around I was seriously concerned that the school wasn’t teaching the kids to read or write. When I brought this up with the teacher I was told that the students would learn from each other at their own pace. When I began correcting my childs homework I was chastised by the teacher because this was not how they wanted things done.
They were actively not teaching the kids to read, write and develop math skills. They also cancelled awards ceremonies and excellance awards, everyone got a green ribbon. When I complained to the principal I got the impression that I wasn’t welcome.
I promptly moved to the Richmond school district, it was like night and day. The staff formed a kind of reaction team and spent the entire year bring my child up to speed. He began to excel.
I began to research. I found that Surrey graduates the fewest kids, has the highest drop out rate and has only 1.7% of graduates able to enter University with the neccesary grades. Less than 2 in 100 !!
It hit me that this was why the GR 12 curriculum at the Cloverdale high school was auto shop and cooking. The school system was socially engineering low end workers and had no interest in higher education.
Richmond graduates 70% of it’s kids and 15% are getting high enough marks to qualify for University entrance. This is the information that the BCTF is fighting to suppress. They don’t want to know what they are doing with the school system. They do not want to answer for the failure rate. All schools and districts are not equal.
But even in Richmond it was uneven, some schools performing much better than others. In my kids 9th year something happened, a new Principal came to the top performing school where I was and changed the direction of the curriculum. They were no longer willing to discuss University preperation. It started to sound very Surrey to me.
Luckily my child recieved an offer from Vancouvers top Private school and ecieved a full 3 year scholarship to attend there. The school had 100% graduation and 99% University acceptance grades.
I thank the Fraser Institute for publishing the school stats ( FSA) it was a real eye opener and I saved my child from a slow drift into hell by realizing I had to pull out of the Surrey School district and fast.
Last point. Why is it during the build up to and during every strike the BCTF is shouting about ‘the kids’, class sizes, special needs, libraries etc etc, and then as soon as they get a big signing bonus you never hear another peep from them.
It seems to me that they are just using as children as pawns in the union greed swill game of use the publics weaknesses against them so “e can get a big fat bonus and more diamond studs in our pension plan” It is kind of sickening after the 10th time or so.
Don’t let anyone tell you that the FSA isn’t the tool that tells the truth about school performance. If you want your kid to fail trust the BCTF, if you want your kid to succeed put your trust in the Fraser Institute and get into a better performing school right away.
February 11th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
read on: Teachers get paid really well? Yet you agree there is definite variance between ability and quality amongst teachers? The question is, are you willing to pay more for a higher quality product?
February 11th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Post 85 dingus
Answer: LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of experience.
Truth is often much stranger than postulation.
Actually I was talking to a colleague yesterday. They had a meeting with senior staff member(ie #2 guy ..right hand man of the City CAO ) of a Local Gov’t.
This wonk had an army of (6) OTHER senior staff from various departments to sit in on the meeting.
Total: 7 versus 1 .
My colleague had very basic questions that the wonk should have answered…and then the wonk gets frsutrated and claims my colleague is wasting money by using up these other peoples time ??
My colleague retorts :
(i) he never asked the others to be there
(ii)it is HIS taxes that pay their salaries, thus its his taxes they are wasting in this snivel servant effort at bullying/ intimidation .
At the end this City Hall “brain trust”( which collectively must be sucking close to $1 million in annual salaries) stiil couldn’t give my colleague a straight answer.
Brutal wonks supreme. !!!
February 11th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
90 kuroame Says:
February 11th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
If there were ever any “brutal wonks” in the civil service the private sector head-hunted them long ago
=====
I only wish !
What you will find is an Old Boys Club “swap meet” .
Many senior bureaucrats will be “removed” from a Local Gov’t. Often they have had clash with the City CAO.
Then, and after perhaps a severance package they magically re-appear at a nearby Local Gov’t. This often happens with City Planners .
Without mentioning names..Surrey lost a couple of planners to Richmond. They were in Richmond for a few years….. then gone.
Where did they go ?
Back to Surrey. !
Richmonds Head Planner a few years back got bounced…then I see them on TV working for another local City.
The ones that are left are likely lick- spittle spineless toadies and thus often bad for the given City…hence my ” brutal wonk” comment.
This “swap’em and trade ‘ em” system creates a balance(?) and more importantly a relief valve for all Local Gov’ts to change or remove staff “for whatever reason” and stop lawsuits etc.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
actually jesse, teachers get paid very well at the moment..
February 11th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
dingus:
re: Your “yes and yes”
If there is curriculum , why does the BCTF fear for FSA ? If they are following the curriculum, should each district have approx. the same bell curve? If not, then perhaps this requires closer scrutiny.
Much like B.C. Local Gov’ts are given a lot of autonomy, so is each B.C. School District. Then, within the given school district, is the autonomy within each school
Your school administrators (Principals) should be managers,and deal with parent issues as a top priority if they are valid..aka “customer service”. but these Principals often get eaten alive by the teachers if certain lines get crossed.
My experience has been grades K – 7 are the self esteem mantra aka dumbing -down ….and core skills like Math seem to be beyond the grasp of many teachers. They seem to fluff things up in the so -called curriculum….almost on a “fine arts” track.
I will admit High School is different, more focus…but by that point a lot of walking wounded from K – 7 that will struggle because they have been moved along from one grade to the next and told “everything is fine” till the actual truth states otherwise.
I’ve been an active Volunteer at public schools…and lived to tell the tale. If anyone thinks the Public system does not have a nasty underbelly run by an “old boys club”…you really don’t get out much.
When I read the various horror stories about what has happened to the “sheepies in society”, it doesn’t surpise me one bit , given people’s self -induced denial and ignorance of what goes on in various public and private institutions .
February 11th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
If there were ever any “brutal wonks” in the civil service the private sector head-hunted them long ago.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
markx: “If hospitals are run like schools, it would be a horror show every day.”
Before you judge a man, try walking a mile in his shoes. Believe it or not there are good teachers around as there are bad health care workers. It’s easy to blame the workers when perhaps the larger problem is the environment handed to them by our train of elected leaders.
Let me ask you this, would you be willing to give teachers 25% raises if they improved their performance standards?
February 11th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
#87 – Do you ever get tired of trying to be funny, while all the time, being the farthest thing from it?
Time to show some maturity huh?
February 11th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Big housing plan passed! Everyone getting a new house! Market going up soon. Government just print the money.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
Informer10: PaulB will be terribly missed. Bon voyage, PaulB, and best wishes for you and your family. Thanks for ALL you have saved us in mortgage principle and interest costs! We will NEVER forget you!!! God bless.
February 11th, 2009 at 11:38 am
“Many of these same upper echelon Civil Servants can be brutal wonks who can only justify their existence ( and paychecks) by creating more red tape lacking anything resembling public need nor benefit.”
Are you speaking from experience or just postulating?
February 11th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Yes and yes, but what’s your point? No question teachers play a strong role and all that. I didn’t just fall off a turnip truck. But I’ll say again — policy is set by the govt. Standards are set by the govt. Funding is decided by the govt. Benchmarks for outcomes are set by the govt. Think schools are a feather bed that leave Suzy and Johnny to the tender mercies of Kumaon? Take it up with the govt instead of bitching about unions.
February 11th, 2009 at 11:33 am
Post # 79 Markx:
I am not implying that :
It all goes back to my original premise of ” entitlement “.
IMHO….Okay… honour the current agreements, but our own leaders best be talking to the union leadership about seriously reduced expectations, and not “lather up with hollow self- serving rhetoric ” when the next round of negotiations comes up. It always comes down to the taxpayer’s ability to pay.
Many of these same upper echelon Civil Servants can be brutal wonks who can only justify their existence ( and paychecks) by creating more red tape lacking anything resembling public need nor benefit.
February 11th, 2009 at 11:22 am
78 dingus Says:
February 11th, 2009 at 10:58 am
“Are you speaking from experience, or simply postulating ?
It appears to be the latter.”
Huh??
========================
Ok.
Try again:
Do you have any family members that have been in the BC Public School System in the last 10 -15 years ?
Have you been an active volunteer in a BC public school( ie PAC member, etc. )
February 11th, 2009 at 11:15 am
PIP “Farewell”
Paul went down,blogs and stats are up till end of month.
February 11th, 2009 at 11:09 am
dingus: Teachers’s union do run the education system in this province, as they have for a long while. They’re probably the largest special interest group in this province. Teachers are probably the least accountable public employees at the provincial level. If hospitals are run like schools, it would be a horror show every day.
February 11th, 2009 at 11:06 am
“Your entire comment is a straw man.”
The “too many people sucking off the public tit” is a straw man argument itself, so I’d say it’s a fair counter.
Nobody likes taxes. Everybody expects services. Those that rave about too high taxes or too many public servants don’t seem to get too granular about what they’d be willing to sacrifice, or make any sort of nuanced suggestion that there’s an optimal level of taxation balanced well with adequate service delivery. It’s just all waste. Until it impacts something near and dear to them, of course. Sure cut taxes to the bone. But complain about poor schools and crowded emergency rooms, crumbling infrastructure, inadequate laws that are poorly enforced, on and on and on. It’s straw man through and through.
February 11th, 2009 at 11:01 am
NO-OLYMPICS:
I think the threat of chronic strikes are real, and Harper is making a mistake in taking away arbitration without taking away the public servant’s right to strike. In other words, a downsizing of government is preferable to setting a bad precedent of not honouring arbitration. The long term damage to the arbitration process outweights the short term pain of pushing through layoffs.
February 11th, 2009 at 10:58 am
“Are you speaking from experience, or simply postulating ?
It appears to be the latter.”
Huh??
February 11th, 2009 at 10:57 am
Anonymous:
He merely said that he does not want to see tax dollars wasted.
Nobody does. The problem is that people do not agree on what constitutes “wasting” tax dollars. If they did there would be no debate about it.
I, for example, consider the Olympics a colossal waste of money. However the other citizens of Vancouver disagreed with me by a margin of two to one. That is, until it suddenly dawned on them that they might end up paying for a good chunk of it. Amazing how that suddenly changes one’s point of view.
February 11th, 2009 at 10:55 am
dingus:
Quote:
And isn’t that the bailiwick of the govt that sets the curriculum? It’s not the teachers that set the agenda, determine class sizes or decide what programs get funded. You got a beef about education policy and school performance? Take it up with the Ministry of Ed
=========
Are you speaking from experience, or simply postulating ?
It appears to be the latter.
February 11th, 2009 at 10:43 am
ella,
“Oh dear. Well, OK, then. No more taxes from you, I’m sure you have better things to do with your money.”
Your entire comment is a straw man. The original poster did not maintain that he wishes to pay no taxes. He merely said that he does not want to see tax dollars wasted. Those are entirely different claims, and I am at a loss to see how anyone with half a brain could conflate them.
February 11th, 2009 at 10:42 am
“If they could present me a message I could buy into, a Win- Win for all concerned, more power to them, that’s healthy within a true democracy.”
Except they are paid to represent their membership’s interest, not provide you with a message you can “buy into”. Pleasing you isn’t the hallmark of a healthy democracy.
“When I compare the current public school system versus the past, it is so feather – bedded I am not surprised Johnny and Suzy can’t read, spell or do math, and that Kumon and Sylvan franchises pick up the slack”
And isn’t that the bailiwick of the govt that sets the curriculum? It’s not the teachers that set the agenda, determine class sizes or decide what programs get funded. You got a beef about education policy and school performance? Take it up with the Ministry of Ed.
“lacking in critical thinking skills”
Pot, meet kettle.
February 11th, 2009 at 10:39 am
PG A 10 of today’s Vancouver Province
Full page ad. ( QUADRA HOMES )
Not a Condo Liquidation, but…
“We cannot properly describe our offer as a LIQUIDATION because:
- We are not under financial pressure from our bank to sell, in fact we are using our financial strength to provide our clients with 2.49 % – 5 year term mortgages.
– We are not “LIQUIDATING” picked over inventory, we are offering recently completed ultra – luxury condos.
Deposit on any unit is $5000.
Additional downpayment on “Move In” is between $13,000 to $14, 000 .
On a one bedroom suite, the price has already dropped from $398, 900 to $338,900
Most expensive unit a 2 master bedroom 2 garage was $444,900 , now dropped to $368,900 .
These are located at 990 Adair Ave. Coquitlam(near IKEA/ behind Sammy J Pepppers )
===============
Interesting…Are they trying to distance themselves from MAC Marketing ?
Why the big drops ? Isn’t the start of the prime RE season coming up?
Are the floodgates of recently completed inventory ready to burst?
link is http://www.BeautifulCondos.ca
======
February 11th, 2009 at 10:01 am
Strength of Housing success comes from Canadian Developer,Main strength come from” DEVELOPERS IN VANCOUVER”, They had act accordingly,builders themselves were responding to the changing climate.Capping starts and slowing down building is good for house values in the long run. Cutting that supply when it is needed is crucial to avoid the housing crisis the US had when they did nothing but go gangbuster with loans to unqualified homeowners and builders alike.”New housing starts slashed in half”.-CMHC. IN result month over month prices are up in Vancouver and further stats are also carring same trends in it’s pocket,Inventory in core area is down from last month,Inventory in entire area is also down compare to last months.Sales are up as first seven bussiness days sales stand at 491 units compare to 773 sales for entire month in January.Vancouver Real Estate Boom2 Acquisition Is Countinue In A Progress because hey VANCOUVER REAL ESTATE NEVER GO DOWN.
February 11th, 2009 at 9:53 am
patriotz:
Are you saying that just because someone works for the public sector, the wages they earn don’t really belong to them?
====
Not at all.
Unfortunately, what should be a group representing professionals gets co-opted into a politicized entity with a limited tunnel – vision agenda. The end result is usually about money and lack of accountability.
If they could present me a message I could buy into, a Win- Win for all concerned, more power to them, that’s healthy within a true democracy.
I could have brought the Nurses’ union into this discussion re: it’s recent media campaign.. but their’s is a message that I can often buy into.
When I compare the current public school system versus the past, it is so feather – bedded I am not surprised Johnny and Suzy can’t read, spell or do math, and that Kumon and Sylvan franchises pick up the slack.
The ultimate backwash from the products of the Public School system is the type of “sheepie” we VCI posters often refer to… a me -first “kool -aid swallowers” and lacking in critical thinking skills.
February 11th, 2009 at 9:12 am
NO -LYMPICS:
BCTF’s war chest (ie own money) is ultimately sourced from US taxpayers,…ie the wages WE pay the teachers are used to fund the BCTF.
Well yes of course they are. Just what is wrong with that? The teachers have just as much right to spend the money they earn to promote their own interests as anyone else.
Are you saying that just because someone works for the public sector, the wages they earn don’t really belong to them?
February 11th, 2009 at 8:51 am
“Too many people are sucking off the public tit and I as a taxpayer am sick of paying for it.”
Oh dear. Well, OK, then. No more taxes from you, I’m sure you have better things to do with your money.
Please don’t use our roads anymore, though, OK? You’ll have to make some new roads by hand. And, if you happen to have a crash on one of your new roads, don’t expect any ambulances (or hospitals, if you can make it yourself). Please start inspecting your own food, and while you’re at it, I suggest you get a water purification kit. I certainly hope your home doesn’t burn down or get robbed, but if it does, please don’t call 911, that’s a special number for people who live in a society.
Enjoy your time in the woods, Anonymous.
February 11th, 2009 at 8:35 am
patriotz:
QUOTE:
” You mean the BCTF is spending its own money to promote its own interests? ”
BCTF’s war chest (ie own money) is ultimately sourced from US taxpayers,…ie the wages WE pay the teachers are used to fund the BCTF.
Gov’t and the Public Sector have a symbiotic relationship … a Faustian bargain…they need each other and often to the detriment of the public.
Any sabre rattling is often token…if push comes to shove the Gov’t will back up the Staff, unless a scapegoat is needed, which is usually a higher -ranking bureaucrat. See COV for examples .
BCREA is private sector.
February 11th, 2009 at 8:24 am
Happy times return! Obama fixing housing market big mortgage plan soon. Good times again for everyone by spending money. Best thing to happen to anyone.
February 11th, 2009 at 8:21 am
NO -LYMPICS:
The BCTF is already beating the same old tired drum about school closure and class sizes.
You mean the BCTF is spending its own money to promote its own interests? Well that’s just shocking. Next thing you know groups like the BC Real Estate Association will be doing it.
I do not approve of the unilateral abrogation of labour contracts by either party, and that includes illegal strikes. Illegal actions by the BCTF or anyone else do not in any way justify the abrogation of obligations by any employer.
In the 1980′s Bill Bennett brought in his “restraint” program which involved imposing salary caps on new public sector contracts. His government had every right to do this. He did not try to back out of the government’s obligations on existing contracts.
You either have the rule of law, or the law of the jungle. Take your pick.
February 11th, 2009 at 7:55 am
From Garth’s blog:
QUOTE:
Speaking of Canadian banks,
One of my patients revealed to me that a prominent bank she works at in Richmond has just laid off its entire mortgage division a few days ago.
This is indeed tough times, I better start flipping through my copy of After The Crash which was sitting on my desk for the past few days!
========
Besides realtors…the collateral damage must be mounting. Notaries, Lawyers in general practice ( ie RE ), bankers….conventioanl and non conventional lenders….Moving companies…the list goes on.
February 11th, 2009 at 7:46 am
On the news:
Canada recorded its first trade deficit in over 30 years.
aka we imported more than we exported.
Not surprised… but fasten your seatbelts !
February 11th, 2009 at 7:34 am
Post # 61 patriotz:
It’s not that simple
Certain Publc Sector unions ARE the Gov’t.
BCTF went through an illegal strike a few years back and the schools were out approx. 2 weeks. Parents and students get caught in the middle, lives disrupted. Gov’t was over a barrel and gave in. Students are and always will be used as hostages. Non miltant /Non left wingers need not apply
for the membership’s executive.
After the dust settles, its all about money. The upfront wages may not always have major gain( though it often exceeds the private sector) , but the generous benefits and pensions are not as obvious to the public.
February 11th, 2009 at 7:17 am
Patriotz:
The various lobby groups have already started their pre-election campaigns.
The BCTF is already beating the same old tired drum about school closure and class sizes. IMHO, its coded language for featherbedding and keeping membership levels up. The BCTF is so focussed on the lowest common denominator … its social engineering agenda as opposed to a good basic a-political education .
Re Unions:
Having been in 3 unions myself… IMHO the union movement has failed its members. Solidarity is BS. Unions have allowed 2 tier wage scales , which creates 2 classes of workers in the same workplace. The older workers wanted to save their bacon so in return for their ” I’m all right Jack” they threw the new members with less seniority to the wolves with lower wages for the same work.
re Public Sector?
Like Anonymous said…I never had any say in the recent contracts. Provincial and Local Gov’ts wanted labour peace to carry over past the Olympics. As typical, they seemed to ignore the grassroots,and their ability to pay, perhaps setting them up for a major revolt as the economy unwinds. Gov’t and the public sector jump into bed far too often and giving the rest of us the indigent digit .
In essence, its job security and wage increases.
Please tell me where in the private sector that exists?
Gov’t won’t tear up the contracts now, that would defeat their original goal of labour peace.
I predict a clawback after 2010
February 11th, 2009 at 6:40 am
Anon, government employees don’t give themselves jobs. The government gives them jobs. If you think public sector employment is too high, or that they are paid too much, don’t get mad at the workers.
Get mad at the guy at the top – Gordo. The buck stops there.
February 11th, 2009 at 5:20 am
Union Jack: What fraction is that Union Jack? 99%? Are you including your massive benefits and pension as well? Are you at risk of being laid off? What is your livable wage for what you do? As a tax payer I am in favor of honoring all labor contracts but am also in favor of massive layoffs to the bloated public sector especially when the private sector is being overwhelmed with layoffs. Too many people are sucking off the public tit and I as a taxpayer am sick of paying for it.
February 11th, 2009 at 3:04 am
Wait a second there, Other Ted. I’m one of those government workers and I can tell you I’m not exactly raking it in. They pay the tradesmen only a fraction of what you can make privately. And where I work there is NO overtime. I make a livable wage and that is it. Nobody is getting rich where I work.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:06 am
And when the government is not an honest broker to the taxpayer I say the tax payer has the right to say I void this contract. So unless each contract is put through by a referendum I say the will of the people should rule.
People get the government they elect. The government has the constitutional authority to levy taxes, borrow money, spend money, and enter into contracts. This is the will of the people – it is exactly what government is elected for.
Just because you are unhappy with the way the government has been run is not a justification for it abandoning obligations that it has legally entered into.
People who are unhappy with the government will have the opportunity to do something about it May 12.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:33 am
“The fact is that the provincial government is seeking to break its contractual obligations only to its own employees. If it wants to save money, why doesn’t it just rip up its commitment to the Olympics and tell the IOC and its corporate friends to pay for their party themselves? Well that hardly requires asking does it? ”
I agree with what you say but If you ask me what I prefer is that they reevaluate their obligations to both parties. They also have an obligation to the taxpayer. And when the government is not an honest broker to the taxpayer I say the tax payer has the right to say I void this contract. So unless each contract is put through by a referendum I say the will of the people should rule. I say the hell with the cronies, and the hell with the over paid government workers.
February 10th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
No it’s not the same difference. Every contract has its own starting and ending points. If the government wants to roll back salaries or benefits in the next contract, it’s their right to bring this to the table. Just as it’s the right of the unions to ask for a raise. Once a contract is signed, it becomes binding on the parties for the duration.
The fact is that the provincial government is seeking to break its contractual obligations only to its own employees. If it wants to save money, why doesn’t it just rip up its commitment to the Olympics and tell the IOC and its corporate friends to pay for their party themselves? Well that hardly requires asking does it?
You can’t have the rule of law when the big guys can decide whether or not to stick with their contractual commitments, but the little guys are stuck with them.
February 10th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Patriotz:
But then it comes full circle, does it not ?
The deficit financing is, ultimately, an extra obligation incurred onto the taxpayers, correct ? The taxpayer’s own income stream is reduced, but a greater proportion (ie increased taxes)may be demanded by Gov’t to cover the deficit financing used to honour the contracts.
ALSO:
Keep in mind that the current contract may be honoured, but the next one may have an offer tabled that demands a roll back as a starting point. Hence, the same difference .
February 10th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
Vancondobear:
I can’t believe people like you STILL even read or respond to Supraboy. P A G E D O W N.
February 10th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
From Garth’s blog:
In Ottawa the governor of the Bank of Canada told the House of Commons finance committee, with a straight face, that the economy will grow next year by an astonishing amount. One of the greatest growth spurts in modern times, in fact.
Meanwhile the Canadian dollar crashed by almost two full cents, and the price of a barrel of oil tumbled 5% in one day, to less than $38 US.
Also in Ottawa, the CRTC announced that the profits of Canadian television networks collapsed by 93% last year, an indication of how companies everywhere are turning off their marketing taps as job-stressed consumers shut their wallets.
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Media profits collapsed 93 % ?
Ouch !
February 10th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
whats your call if ( and the assumption is to avoid deficit financing )it’s a choice between clawback of wages to allow for crucial funding for say health care….or deficit financing to honour the contracts.
Deficit financing. The government has decided to resort to deficit financing to honour its obligations to a two week snow party next year, so why can’t it do the same to meet its obligations to its own employees?
The idea that any level of government should be allowed to break its contracts with its employees, or anyone else, just because it has been incompetent at forecasting future economic trends is just nonsense. We can’t do it as individuals, and there is no excuse for us to do it collectively (through government).