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	<title>Comments on: Mortgage rates going up.</title>
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	<description>Bubble? What Bubble?</description>
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		<title>By: realpaul</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/06/mortgage-rates-going-up.html#comment-48545</link>
		<dc:creator>realpaul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 09:50:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-48533&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;patriotz&lt;/a&gt;:  
 
Very good point about the debt ratio being much higher in BC. If you ever run across the number I would be very interested to see it. You how difficult it is to real time information in this province. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-48545&quot;&gt;1&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-48533" rel="nofollow">patriotz</a>: </p>
<p>Very good point about the debt ratio being much higher in BC. If you ever run across the number I would be very interested to see it. You how difficult it is to real time information in this province.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-48545">1</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: afc</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/06/mortgage-rates-going-up.html#comment-48539</link>
		<dc:creator>afc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 06:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-48532&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Anonymous&lt;/a&gt;:  
There may be lots of dumb financial planners since financial planning is not regulated and anyone can call himself a financial planner. But I would think in most cases it is the customer who is dumb. If you anyone goes to a lawyer, an accountant or even a plumber, he is expection to pay a hour rate. Nearly 100% people expecting to receive financial advice for free. Everyone has to make a living, right? &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-48539&quot;&gt;-2&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-48532" rel="nofollow">Anonymous</a>: </p>
<p>There may be lots of dumb financial planners since financial planning is not regulated and anyone can call himself a financial planner. But I would think in most cases it is the customer who is dumb. If you anyone goes to a lawyer, an accountant or even a plumber, he is expection to pay a hour rate. Nearly 100% people expecting to receive financial advice for free. Everyone has to make a living, right?
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-48539">-2</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: No Longer Looking</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/06/mortgage-rates-going-up.html#comment-48535</link>
		<dc:creator>No Longer Looking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 02:05:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>None of the units in the Coquitlam fire were pre-sold. I went to their site and there appears to have been an attempt to pre-sell them: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.springbankcorp.com/Projects.aspx?ID=7&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.springbankcorp.com/Projects.aspx?ID=7&lt;/a&gt;  
 
The developer indicates that they will build again. Maybe, but probably at a much later date. If the Evergreen Line is stalled another decade, I have my doubts though. 
 
News reference: 
 
&quot;The condo complex was called Evergreen, a venture that was scheduled to be completed in September, one of the developers told CBC News on Thursday. 
 
None of the units had been presold, and the developers said they were insured and would mostly likely rebuild the complex.&quot; 
  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/06/11/bc-burnaby-coquitlam-fire.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2...&lt;/a&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-48535&quot;&gt;1&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>None of the units in the Coquitlam fire were pre-sold. I went to their site and there appears to have been an attempt to pre-sell them: <a href="http://www.springbankcorp.com/Projects.aspx?ID=7" rel="nofollow">http://www.springbankcorp.com/Projects.aspx?ID=7</a>  </p>
<p>The developer indicates that they will build again. Maybe, but probably at a much later date. If the Evergreen Line is stalled another decade, I have my doubts though.</p>
<p>News reference:</p>
<p>&quot;The condo complex was called Evergreen, a venture that was scheduled to be completed in September, one of the developers told CBC News on Thursday.</p>
<p>None of the units had been presold, and the developers said they were insured and would mostly likely rebuild the complex.&quot;</p>
<p>  <a href="http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/06/11/bc-burnaby-coquitlam-fire.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2</a>&#8230;
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-48535">1</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: patriotz</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/06/mortgage-rates-going-up.html#comment-48533</link>
		<dc:creator>patriotz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 00:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-48521&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;oneangryslav&lt;/a&gt;:  
&lt;i&gt;    &#8220;&#8230;The real debt of Canadians is at an all time high at 130% of disposable income&#8230;&#8221; 
 
realpaul, do you know if that figure includes mortgage debt?&lt;/i&gt; 
 
Yes. Remember there are a lot of people who have no non-mortgage debt at all. There is no way the rest could borrow enough to average out at 130% of income. 
 
What matters for mortgage debt, like any other capital debt (as opposed to consumer debt), is whether the capital asset yields enough income to cover the interest payments. If so, the asset/debt portfolio is actually making money for the borrower. Like the preferred shares that I bought in my margin account a few months ago. 
 
:-) 
 
However if not - like for RE in BC, where the rental value is far less than interest cost for any house bought during the bubble - the portfolio &lt;b&gt;loses&lt;/b&gt; money for the borrower, big time, long term. 
 
One more thing - that 130% is the Canada-wide average - the average for BC is &lt;b&gt;way&lt;/b&gt; higher. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-48533&quot;&gt;2&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-48521" rel="nofollow">oneangryslav</a>: </p>
<p><i>    &ldquo;&hellip;The real debt of Canadians is at an all time high at 130% of disposable income&hellip;&rdquo;</p>
<p>realpaul, do you know if that figure includes mortgage debt?</i></p>
<p>Yes. Remember there are a lot of people who have no non-mortgage debt at all. There is no way the rest could borrow enough to average out at 130% of income.</p>
<p>What matters for mortgage debt, like any other capital debt (as opposed to consumer debt), is whether the capital asset yields enough income to cover the interest payments. If so, the asset/debt portfolio is actually making money for the borrower. Like the preferred shares that I bought in my margin account a few months ago.</p>
<p>  <img src='http://vancouvercondo.info/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>However if not &#8211; like for RE in BC, where the rental value is far less than interest cost for any house bought during the bubble &#8211; the portfolio <b>loses</b> money for the borrower, big time, long term.</p>
<p>One more thing &#8211; that 130% is the Canada-wide average &#8211; the average for BC is <b>way</b> higher.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-48533">2</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/06/mortgage-rates-going-up.html#comment-48532</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 23:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/?p=1205#comment-48532</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-48531&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;afc&lt;/a&gt;:Hey dumbass 320 there are 319 other financial planners have been found on blogs all of them looks like an idiots now. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-48532&quot;&gt;-14&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-48531" rel="nofollow">afc</a>:Hey dumbass 320 there are 319 other financial planners have been found on blogs all of them looks like an idiots now.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-48532">-14</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: afc</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/06/mortgage-rates-going-up.html#comment-48531</link>
		<dc:creator>afc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-48504&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bob&lt;/a&gt;:  
Bob, I am a lender and a financial planner. I assume you need two income to serve your $500K mortgage. I don&#039;t know how many kids you have and what kind of life style you have. I have many clients with $500K mortgage with a rate around 4%. One couple with combined income of $130K now in trouble to handle their mortgage payments. Their PLC and visa is up to the limit. For myself, I have a combined income just over $160K, I would never borrow $500K. Lots of things could happen, one of you could lose his/her job. It could happen to anybody. My several co-workers just got laid off. Probably they never thought it could happen to them since a couple of them had been working for our institution for over 20 years.  
I agree with you, if you can handle the payment (don&#039;t forget property tax, insurance, utility, reparement), you may end up at a similar position with some one waited and bought cheaper but with a higher interest rate. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-48531&quot;&gt;9&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-48504" rel="nofollow">Bob</a>: </p>
<p>Bob, I am a lender and a financial planner. I assume you need two income to serve your $500K mortgage. I don&#039;t know how many kids you have and what kind of life style you have. I have many clients with $500K mortgage with a rate around 4%. One couple with combined income of $130K now in trouble to handle their mortgage payments. Their PLC and visa is up to the limit. For myself, I have a combined income just over $160K, I would never borrow $500K. Lots of things could happen, one of you could lose his/her job. It could happen to anybody. My several co-workers just got laid off. Probably they never thought it could happen to them since a couple of them had been working for our institution for over 20 years. </p>
<p>I agree with you, if you can handle the payment (don&#039;t forget property tax, insurance, utility, reparement), you may end up at a similar position with some one waited and bought cheaper but with a higher interest rate.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-48531">9</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Just_Spiffy</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/06/mortgage-rates-going-up.html#comment-48530</link>
		<dc:creator>Just_Spiffy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Depends where Bob&#039;s house is located. $1900 to $2100 is pretty much going rent right now for a whole house in the Langley area. $1400-1600 gets you a townhouse only or the top half of a house. Might be different in other areas of course. I&#039;ve only been watching Langley for the past few months, so I don&#039;t know about different areas. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-48530&quot;&gt;1&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depends where Bob&#039;s house is located. $1900 to $2100 is pretty much going rent right now for a whole house in the Langley area. $1400-1600 gets you a townhouse only or the top half of a house. Might be different in other areas of course. I&#039;ve only been watching Langley for the past few months, so I don&#039;t know about different areas.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-48530">1</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: RennieWhereRU?</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/06/mortgage-rates-going-up.html#comment-48529</link>
		<dc:creator>RennieWhereRU?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Bob.  I wont raise obvious prior points in that you paid too much for the house to begin with.  I think your being too agressive with rental equivalent of the house.  I doubt your house would rent for $2,100 per month.  Assuming the house you own (well the bank owns it until you pay that mortgage off) is worth $550,000, the rent should be around $1,500 to $,1750 tops in todays market.  I figure the house we are in is worth $550,000 and we are paying $1,450 in rent.  So not only in this artificial low interest rate environment (rates about to and are rocketing upwards) are your monthly mortgage payments higher than rent equivalent, you have to pay property taxes, insurance, utilities (sewer and water), R&amp;M.  I dont get the concept of long term home.  I like the fact after a couple of years I get sick of one place or neighbourhood and can leave with one months notice. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-48529&quot;&gt;2&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob.  I wont raise obvious prior points in that you paid too much for the house to begin with.  I think your being too agressive with rental equivalent of the house.  I doubt your house would rent for $2,100 per month.  Assuming the house you own (well the bank owns it until you pay that mortgage off) is worth $550,000, the rent should be around $1,500 to $,1750 tops in todays market.  I figure the house we are in is worth $550,000 and we are paying $1,450 in rent.  So not only in this artificial low interest rate environment (rates about to and are rocketing upwards) are your monthly mortgage payments higher than rent equivalent, you have to pay property taxes, insurance, utilities (sewer and water), R&amp;M.  I dont get the concept of long term home.  I like the fact after a couple of years I get sick of one place or neighbourhood and can leave with one months notice.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-48529">2</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: realpaul</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/06/mortgage-rates-going-up.html#comment-48528</link>
		<dc:creator>realpaul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-48521&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;oneangryslav&lt;/a&gt;:  
 
#51 OAS, it&#039;s actually 138% but who&#039;s quibbling. The calculation is is the article 
 
&quot;The conventional wisdom seems to be that the  financial situation of Canadian  households is generally sound and certainly much better than that of our profligate and heavily indebted American neighbours.  The Bank of Canada argued in its end of 2008 Financial System Review that  &#8220;(O)verall, despite a modest deterioration, the financial position of the Canadian household sector remains relatively positive.&#8221; ( p.21)  The 2009 Budget displayed a re-assuring Chart showing US household wealth falling far more precipitously than in Canada.  (Chart 2.5). And it is true that household debt as a percentage of  after tax (disposable) income in 2008 was, at 138%&quot; 
  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.progressive-economics.ca/2009/06/03/indebted-canadians/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.progressive-economics.ca/2009/06/03/in...&lt;/a&gt;  
 
 
&quot;Yeehah, we&#039;re all gonna die&quot; as Country Joe and the Fish sang. It&#039;s only money right and looky how shiny those counter tops are, and they&#039;re giving me a free car to sign up today. OMG Droooooooooooollllllllllll. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-48528&quot;&gt;3&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-48521" rel="nofollow">oneangryslav</a>: </p>
<p>#51 OAS, it&#039;s actually 138% but who&#039;s quibbling. The calculation is is the article</p>
<p>&quot;The conventional wisdom seems to be that the  financial situation of Canadian  households is generally sound and certainly much better than that of our profligate and heavily indebted American neighbours.  The Bank of Canada argued in its end of 2008 Financial System Review that  &ldquo;(O)verall, despite a modest deterioration, the financial position of the Canadian household sector remains relatively positive.&rdquo; ( p.21)  The 2009 Budget displayed a re-assuring Chart showing US household wealth falling far more precipitously than in Canada.  (Chart 2.5). And it is true that household debt as a percentage of  after tax (disposable) income in 2008 was, at 138%&quot;</p>
<p>  <a href="http://www.progressive-economics.ca/2009/06/03/indebted-canadians/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.progressive-economics.ca/2009/06/03/in" rel="nofollow">http://www.progressive-economics.ca/2009/06/03/in</a>&#8230;  </p>
<p>&quot;Yeehah, we&#039;re all gonna die&quot; as Country Joe and the Fish sang. It&#039;s only money right and looky how shiny those counter tops are, and they&#039;re giving me a free car to sign up today. OMG Droooooooooooollllllllllll.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-48528">3</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Specuskeptic</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/06/mortgage-rates-going-up.html#comment-48527</link>
		<dc:creator>Specuskeptic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/?p=1205#comment-48527</guid>
		<description>&#8221;Dave Dosh 
 
Satv 
 
John 
 
Browntown 
 
Supraboy 
 
Vancouverboom2&#8221; 
Thanks for leaving us the rosetta stone of troll/jackasses. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-48527&quot;&gt;6&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&rdquo;Dave Dosh</p>
<p>Satv</p>
<p>John</p>
<p>Browntown</p>
<p>Supraboy</p>
<p>Vancouverboom2&rdquo;</p>
<p>Thanks for leaving us the rosetta stone of troll/jackasses.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-48527">6</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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