Frommers: Vancouver is an over-rated city
Juraj sent in this link to a suprisingly negative travel review of Vancouver by a Frommers travel guide writer. I’m just going to quote the whole paragraph so that no one can accuse me of taking parts out of context and making it appear worse than it is:
Vancouver. “Blandcouver” looks great on TV, where it often masquerades as other, more interesting cities. This Canadian metropolis is indeed like many other places, just duller. I actually heard a Vancouverite call their city “diverse” and “cosmopolitan” when what they mean is “we have some Chinese people as well as the Anglo-Canadians.” Anyone who thinks Vancouver is cosmopolitan has never been south or east of Portland. Most of Vancouver’s other attributes, meanwhile, are seen in better form in either Portland, Seattle, or San Francisco. Spend your time in Victoria instead, or Whistler, or, heck, Nanaimo. If you insist upon going, try our much more enthusiastic destination guide.
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spark Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 10:35 am
lol, so true.
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Dave Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 10:47 am
That’s only one opinion and I don’t think his review is very consistent with the majority of visitors to our city.
Visiting a place is also a lot different than living there. For example, lots of people love to visit London but I know a number of people who have lived there and wouldn’t stay for longer than a couple years. I think Vancouver is better place to live than it is to visit.
I don’t think Vancouver has to worry about image very much. It already has a strong reputation as being a great city and I think that will grow after the Olympics.
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Anonymous Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 10:52 am
It all depends when you visit. Hit the rain season, and this place looks pretty bland and depressing …
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visitor Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 10:58 am
this guy is spot on. Not only is Vancouver a dull city but vancouverites are convinced and arrogant by the self serving propoganda that vancouver is the best city to live in the world. Every time I am here I listen to this soviet style propoganda. Best cilty, best real estate, best culture, best you name it. What a bunch of ….
) but it will take time.
Yes, vancouver is known to be the Columbia of the North by the Economist http://tinyurl.com/krn66k
All in vancouver is about showing off, there is no genuine lifestyle in this city.
There can not be cultural development or great nightlife in any city where alcohol distribution is controled by the state through sin taxes and liquor licences.
There cannot be great lifestyle in a city where more than 60% of the income goes toward paying morgage.
And Olympics will be a non event, for those hoping to get the city upgraded in the international scale.
Vancouver is still much closer to a big lumber town than a cosmopolitan modern city, time for a reality check wetcouverites!!
with love from amsterdam
PS: Some culture semblance could develop eventually in this city if the BC goverment decides to legalise the BC bud
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Dave Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 11:03 am
visitor:
Speaking of Amsterdam, I have heard a lot of people say it is a bland and boring city. I haven’t been myself, and was actually just offered a free trip next month, but I took a pass. Maybe next year.
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pricedoutfornow Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Vancouver’s ok. I’m here because of family, which I think applies to a lot of people. I really can’t think of what makes it so great compared to many other cities (lots of cities have mountains, ocean/water and a lot less rain), I think a lot of people secretly wish it weren’t so expensive, but tell the world “it’s the best place on earth!” to make themselves feel better about spending $900k on a crack shack.
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Miracle Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 11:24 am
I agree that Vancouver is over-rated by people who live here, but that goes for every other city I’ve ever lived in: Montreal, Paris, Whitehorse — yup, even Yukoners think they are living in the best-kept secret in Canada; they may have a point. A lot of this is just self-serving justification for the place you are living.
I do agree however that Vancouver is over-hyped. And if I am ever forced to upgrade to one of those new “Best Place on Earth” license plates, I will seriously consider defacing it. Maybe I’ll just put a sticker over that section that says “most pretentious slogan on earth”.
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visitor Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 11:25 am
Problem with vancouver is that not only there is nothing of interest in itself, but there is nothing in the vicinity as well to get some inspiration.. you have not much of interest in a 2000 miles perimeter.. myabe you need to go to La, New York or Montreal for some decent stuff wheras Amsterdam is part of action in establishing life style trends. Vancouver is pretty much unknown city to outside world once you live a 500 miles perimeter, believe me. You need to definitly come visit here, you will think differently afterwards…
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rp Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Vancouver’ not a bad city, but it is completely overrated. It has one of the nicest winter climates in Canada. I think when taxes go up to pay for the Olympics it will be “not worth it” to live here.
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Mr. Reasonable Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 11:57 am
I live here for work and the environment. For friends as well, though many have moved away in the last couple of years, and when I go visit them I can see why. I’m starting a family and I can’t see us living here long-term due to the low quality overpriced housing.
There are so many other places on the west coast I can find the same (or better) environment, so that pretty much leaves my work as the only thing that keeps me in town.
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Hovering Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
I love it here but when tourists ask me what they should do I am kind of at a loss for words..
Robson Street? Frankly there is better shopping in Europe. The shops in downtown Vancouver are identical to those found throughout North America. There are some funky clothing shops near Gas Town but if tourists wander into the DTES.. they may never be heard from again
Kits? West fourth? Nice places but not for tourists. Gravity Pope is an exceptional shoe shop but the brands are available elsewhere.
Granville Street? Drunken punch ups are a dime a dozen..
Beaches ? We pour raw sewage into the ocean. Enough said.
The Aquarium is nice, Stanley Park I suppose.
I think it is the skiing, climbing, Grouse Grind, mountain biking and paddling that makes Vancouver stand out.
Whistler, Squamish and Tofino is where I would send tourists. Victoria bores me to death (sorry).
I think what Vancouver needs is a grand walking street replacing all of Robson and Granville, a world class Native Art Museum on the Coal Harbour shore.. NBA Basketball, an NFL team (yeah right).. perhaps more urban biking trails along the water. Euros love biking. We could replace Italy/France with more bike routes like Kettle Valley..
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Mr. Reasonable Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Dave: I’ve seen this ‘reputation will grow’ after the Olympics argument so many times, but never seen any proof.
Can you tell me how your attitude changed towards previous host cities after the games? Did you get the urge to move to any of them or go there on vacation?
I’ve seen plenty of stories about the debt that host cities have to deal with after the fact, but not much about any actual concrete positive effects for the city at large. Can you educate me on this?
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Hovering Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200.....ng_teranet
Canada resale home prices fall in April: survey
“On the whole, the report offers a sobering assessment on the state of the Canadian housing market as it suggests that the correction in home prices has continued unabated, and is in fact accelerating,” said Millan Mulraine, economics strategist at TD Securities, in a note.
Mulraine pointed out, however, that the Teranet-National data is at odds with some other statistics such as the Canadian Real Estate Association’s latest figures.
I think Canadian Real Estate Association “figures” should carry a disclaimer
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visitor Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Most Asians don’t make income here in Vancouver, they are just here to visit, study and spend. That is what Vancouver condo price is soo high. Looking just at the local income level sometimes can be misleading. To me Vancouver is really not the best city on earth but its not the worst either. 3.5/5 compare to Tokyo or Hong Kong.
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Gorky Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
The “Best Place on Earth” license plate is straight out arrogant, I’d never put it on my car…embarrassing.
Dave has never been to Amsterdam, clearly. Sorry buddy, but you can’t even compare the two cities, especially not when talking about bland vs. non bland cities. Amsterdam – bland? I don’t think so. You should have taken the trip to learn a bit more about European cities.
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Anonymous Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
you’re a real Vancouverite if…
- you truly believes Vancouver is the best place to stay
- you never really hold back on spreading the word on how great you are and how much you ‘own’
- you think you’re entitled to a lot… for no good reason
- culture is not part of your vocabulary… who needs it anyways
The total absence of any kind of culture does not bother you.
- you’re not the cosmopolitan type
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Anonymous Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Dave: “I don’t think Vancouver has to worry about image very much. It already has a strong reputation as being a great city and I think that will grow after the Olympics.”
I live here, why would i care about image? Image, as the word says, is just an ‘image’… I care about reality not what other people think after being exposed Vancouver propaganda.
Whether “that[image] will grow after the Olympics” or not, i couldn’t care less, it just doesn’t help me as an individual if Vancouver’s image is great- yet I’m paying taxes to fund this gong show…
I want the Vancouver to be good, not it’s image…all the good image does is drive up real estate prices for no good reasons. It’s not that we have jobs to support the fantasy prices.
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Bubble Lad Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
I think the review is spot on. There’s nothing wrong with Vancouver per se – it’s just the endless pumping and baseless hype that sets your teeth on edge. It’s a quaint little backwater and once the RE bubble pops it will probably be a funky little “city” once again (or at least as close as you can get to city without any discernible culture, industry, diversity, public transit or nightlife).
In the meantime I’ve never been in any place that has so little sense of humour about itself – anything other than salivating praise of every aspect of the city is greeted with either stony silence, or outright hostility. This city just takes itself WAY too seriously (maybe a symptom of a deep-seated, though repressed knowledge of how little Vancouver has to offer, and how poorly it stacks up against a real city).
I’ve also never been in a place where the citizens have absolutely no sense of curiosity about their own city – everyone travels around in a little car-powered bubble of ignorance (which is why all the propaganda tends to go uncorrected).
Also, Vancouver being such a small place (under a million in the city itself) people tend to have run in the same tiny social circle all their lives – usually since high school or earlier – so are never faced with anything resembling a contrary opinion about themselves of their city.
It (used to be)an adorable, provincial little burgh that has been systematically pimped out by Real Estate developers, advertising and PR trolls.
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read on Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Whistler yes. Nanaimo – no way in hell.
And AMS rocks. Spend a few months there every year (and no, not for the weed), and absolutely love the place.
But Vancouver is ok, compared to a number of other places I’ve lived (parts of Europe, Australasia).
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arbitrage Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Bubble Lad:
Agree, i was surprised with the derision i received whenever i spoke disparagingly about vancouver. well, i suppose i got negativity back for my negativity. Strange response from typically good humoured friends though.
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Little Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Family. That is the reason a lot of us are here. I grew up here and with a little one on the way, I’d rather have my family close to me than affordable real estate, though of course both would be lovely.
I have to say that the report is pretty consistent with what I have heard from many visitors to our town. Having worked in a gastown tourist trap restaurant throughout my whole undergrad, I met a lot of people from all over the world, and many if not most were dissapointed. They could not believe that a city with so many nice areas also had such a huge amount of open poverty and drugs. I consistently had to explain that although Vancouver likes to think it is uber hip and cosmopolitan, it is actually the asshole of Canada where the rest of the country shits out it’s worst members of society. And while those members of society may be an eyesore, and kinda rough, they are still ten times easier to be around than those that subscribe to our image as “hollywood north”. Sad.
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Mold City Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Vancouver BC:
Pretty impressed with itself for a city made out of paper mache.
(guess I won’t be needing those sunglasses with this weather)
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Maestro Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
#5 Speaking of Amsterdam…
Dave,
Just out of curiosity, are you really that much stupid or just keep pretending of being stupid?
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Dave Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Maestro:
Oh the irony…
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Skye Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Pretty hilarious to see all the people jumping in to defend Vancouver on Frommer’s site, just goes to show how thin-skinned people are here. The inferiority complex is probably Vancouver’s biggest problem and is the source of all the other materialistic crap that contributes to the blandness. You know why all the ESL students get sent here? Because their parents consider Vancouver to be bland enough that their kids won’t get in to too much trouble, unlike Hawaii or other US cities.
If we actually embraced our just-out-of-backwater-logging-town status instead of putting on airs, it would be vastly more tolerable.
Comparing Vancouver to an 800 year old city that has the Rijksmuseum, canals, incredible music, culture, food, art, history, architecture, etc etc etc is ludicrous.
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sam Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Vancouver supplies E tabs to the world and consumes a lot it selff. Once you are on ectasy the world seems a bliss, hence vancouvites call their home the best place in the world
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brad Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
I live in Vancovuer only because I can’t get a decent full-time wage in Whistler. So, I work in Vancouver (rent) and live in Whistler on weekends and holidays. I spend as little time in Vancouver as possible.
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Boombust Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Well, my MOTHER was born in Vancouver in 1918, and I was born some time thereafter. It is certainly home to me. I could care less what anyone else thinks.
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Boombust Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
“…and I was born some time thereafter.”
IN Vancouver, too!
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ReductiMat Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Why does anyone care either way?
If you like it, stay. If you don’t like it, move.
Everyone is so hellbent on changing everyone else’s opinion.
I suspect we’ll be seeing decals of Calvin pissing on a chosen geographic location of choice soon enough.
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other ted Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
i agree with the review. Vancouver does offer something for travellers. But its not what most people think. If you want laid back westcoast lifestyle Seattle san fran are better. Vancouver is good for hikes and being close to nature. The downtown cafe culture is good by canadian standards but lacking compared to world cities. I am glad frommers gave vancouver the smack down. but in all fairness the critique isn’t just true about vancouver but all other canadian cities. The country as a whole suffers from a huge inferiority complex and we make up for it by hyping up everything. has anyone been to the okanagan. What a joke?
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Will Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
To see the responses on this site you’d think there’d be traffic stretching to the East and South, and a line-up at YVR, to get out of here. Gimme a break.
So one tourist didn’t find much interesting in Vancouver. Well, I’ve travelled all of Europe (most, anyways) and there were plenty of cities I went to that I didn’t find to interesting at that time. Maybe now, 10 years later, I would. But there were plenty of places that, at the time, I just wasn’t in the mood for.
Here’s my experience with coming to understand Vancouver. It IS a people town immaculately planned and set against a beautiful backdrop. You can walk anywhere, and for North America it has no comparison when it comes to walkability (from end to end). It has incredible parks and seawalls you all take for granted. It has fantastic dining. It has incredible hiking/sports in the mountains. It has the largest (AFAIK) Ultimate Frisbee league in the world.
It does not have good bars/night clubs but those that are good are small and need to be introduced. It does not have a good nightlife in public spaces but if you meet some folk and get along you will get invited to one heck of a house party, roof top party, boat cruise party, cabin party, etc. People do tend to go to bed early (compared to other places in the world, such as Toronto, LA, Madrid, Tokyo, etc.) but they are also more likely to get up early (crack of dawn) to go jogging/rollerblading along the seawall, with dog leading the way. It is a healthier city in so many ways.
Bland? I’ve always subscribed to the philosophy that you will see the world more as you see yourself.
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blueskies Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
Spend your time in Victoria instead, or Whistler, or, heck, Nanaimo.
…granted Nanaimo has culture….
the main lead item on the news invariably
tends to feature the Nanaimo chapter of
the Hells Angels………
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other ted Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
will take it easy I think you take yourself and your city to seriously. So what Vancouver isn’t for everyone. It is for you. I think that is the point most are making stop hyping this place up. Its not the greatest place on earth for most, just some. Why do you have to justify it to others.
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RJ Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
Will: “You can walk anywhere, and for North America it has no comparison when it comes to walkability (from end to end).”
Uh. I admit to not being to many North American cites, but I don’t find Vancouver any more ‘walkable’ than Victoria or Portland. There are many European cities that are much more ‘walkable’ and ‘bikeable’ than Vancouver: Copenhagen, Amsterdam & Oslo come to mind – that’s what we should strive for.
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Digi Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Heh. I wonder if the ego-bruised Vancouverites complaining to Frommers will get that removed from their site.
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realpaul Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
The article is too soft on the “Shitty of Vancouver” IMHO. I think the pretentious pumping is sickening yes, over-rated oh hell yes, but I would like to see a compilation article/review that details the all the reasons why it’s over-rated.
1)the 1 billion liters a day in raw sewage into the water ways on onto the beaches.
2) the emphasis on ‘bushwalking’ because there really isn’t anything else to cling to
3) the dope and booze culture pervading the mind set of the youth because there is F-All else for them to do except ‘bushwalk’ in mindless circles.
4)a cynical politically correct society that can walk over the bodies of homeless, addicts, mentally challenged to get into thier ‘bushwalking’ regalia.
5) The bedbugs infesting 99% of the hotels
6) Crackheads and junkie crime like no where else
7) killer cops without restraint. Shitcouver is the city where the majority of cop killings occurs. More than any other western capital
9)the herpes and clymidia capital of the world
10) zero art culture
11) zero social culture)
12) Freaking lousy weather MOST of the year.
13) cosmopolitan means cosmopolitan not pretense
14) rats and cockroach infestation has bloomed exponetially. The best restaurants in the city scare the pest control guys to death.
15) Luddites have taken over Shitty Hall and have reneged on their promise to help the homeless. Instead they are going to force the bycicle issue as a way to try to redirect the anger over the infantile transportation plan.
16) Sky train cars , all two of them, have no air con and the sardines are really starting to stink and stab at each other like rats in a cage. It was not a transit system that was designed for urban use. Only the bus drivers union can be happy with the ‘dinky toy’ the shitty is trying to ass off as transit.
OK, I could be here all night. There are very few return visitors to Vancshitzer. Thats another egg that tourism BC is trying to hide. It’s being marketed as a cheaper Mexico to Europeans whose currency buys Shitcouver on a two for one basis. We all saw what happened when the CDN dollar went to par. The numbers fell off a cliff.
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No Longer Looking Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
The article trashed 9 other destinations in Asia, the US and Europe. Funny how most defensive responses are from Vancouver. We’ll know we’re World Class when Vancouverites shrug their shoulders and say “whatever” to articles like this.
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ReductiMat Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
RealPaul, in your opinion, what city should ‘we’ strive to be?
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stu Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Hey crew, Stu here to remind you we have Tony Parsons and lots of young cute asian tarts. Seattle? Flying fish in a market and costly health care, not important to boomers like Stu.
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parisian tourist Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
I visited this place several times over a period of 20 years, one of my mistress lives here. Vancouver is located very beautifully between mountains and the ocean.
I had the opportunity to meet many people here and be invited to parties. Here are some observations:
- vancouverites are nice and hardworking people in general
- food is filthy in this city (but this is valid for most North America, like our Toqueville justly said, 30 religions and one sause
- it is annoying to here people talk only about real estate, morgage rates and cars, it lacks taste completely. Don’t you have smth else to talk about?
- most people make a living selling houses and cars to each other , hence the low level of sophistication
- evth is designed for fast eating, cars are designed for eating and drinking inside, so people can save time, and after don’t know what to do with their time. Even barbecues are all propane made, no charcoal barbecues here, how can you eat the meet cooked on a propane barbecue is beyond me…
- girls lack style generally, I would be embarrassed to take them out to a chic restaurant for dinner. I have only seen here and in a remote city in Russia people drink beer directly from the bottle, it is disgusting. Don’t you guys have glasses?
- wine and alcohol choice is limited, and those available are of very poor taste generally, it is funny that government levies “sin taxes” on liquor here, the name says it all, cultural life is dead here.
- most people drive big ugly cars
- most people seem obsessed with healthy lifestyle and end up living a beyond boring lifestyle.
- one would expect some genuine chinese and indian places given their great number here, but to get good chinese food one has to go rather to San Francisco. I went to classy indian and Chinese restaurants in India and china but here it is filthy, nothing to do with the original thing.
- night life is miserable here, most people live beyond their means in this city
- there is not even a walking only boulevard in downtown, how can cultural life develop?
- I think seattle is way better than Vancouver
but my mistress is hot hot and I will keep coming to this lovely place, au revoir mes amis!
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Anonymous Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
#2 Dave is an admitted troll who also pretends to be an idiot & a moron and is a troll.
He even listed off all the names he uses. Just ignore him.
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Anonymous Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
I so agree with this article.
We’re far from being a cosmopolitan, it’s a town with people thinking they are sophisticated. While they really come off as clueless, uneducated wannabes.
Nice city if you’re into the outdoors, bums, constant whining about something, rain, overpriced cost of living, small town thinking, pot, and did i mention more rain?
I was overseas on vacation and while checking into my hotel a couple from Vancouver was checking in beside me. The girl at the counter asked where they were from and they proudly stated ‘Yaletown’.
I just rolled my eyes and continued with checking in, I should of busted them.
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Anonymous Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
Will,
Vancouver is ” a people town immaculately planned…”
You can’t seriously believe that. Can I take a guess what you do for a living? And “house parties:? Really? That’s what you come up with in lieu of a great entertainment district? (If you were making a joke I apologize.)
The Vancouver I grew up in was small and great. But it has changed. I think the slogan “the best place on earth” was created by VANOC to distract people from the problems this city has developed.
“Hey, Did you hear there was another shooting death last night?”
“Yeah, but look at those beautiful mountains!”
“Isn’t there a lot of drug production and use there?”
“Well, yes. But you know there are also no legal consequences so that spells OPPORTUNITY! ”
“Wow, there sure seem to be a lot of homeless.”
“Best climate on Earth to be homeless! I just hope they do the right thing and go be homeless somewhere else while the Winter Olympics are going on. The homeless are such an eyesore.”
“I hear the taxes are very high in Vancouver.”
“It costs money to be the best! Besides you now own part of the OLYMPIC LEGACY! And did you know that drug production is TAX FREE!”
“The price of houses are incredibly high.”
“What do you expect. It’s the best place on earth! You’d be lucky to buy a house! Duh! Didn’t you see those beautiful mountains? Didn’t you hear me mention the OLYMPICS?!”
“How’s the economy?”
“OLYMPICS!!! BEAUTIFUL MOUNTAINS!!!! WHY CAN’T I GET THROUGH TO YOU??!!! IT’S THE BEST PLACE ON FRIGGIN’ EARTH!!”
“I hear it’s kind of dull?”
“Two words…HOUSE PARTY!!…And…er…um…oh, never mind.”
This city needs serious help. And the two week snow frolic we’ve got planned will do nothing to address the issues. Then again, we got great dope! And look at those mountains!
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dboy Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
While I agree that the night life is dull and real estate over priced, I find much I like about this place. Quite frankly I read these comments and wonder if I’m that blind ? Am I living in the same place?
I have been to better places, lived in a few, but Vancouver is alright in my books. Would I leave if I wasn’t settled in my career? Perhaps.
I think the problem is that Vancouver is naively pretending to be better than it is which in turn causes such responses. Vancouver is overly provincial but there are many things that are right.
I prefer Vancouver to anywhere i’ve lived in the UK and with the exception of San Diego, the US.
Vancouver is a nice place – nothing more nothing else. Is it completely bland? Perhaps for a twenty something – but not for this 40 something – I take comfort in the pace of life, love the mountains, enjoy the restaurants and love exploring the city on foot – and contrary to the article Seattle is not better than Vancouver.
It’s easy to point out places that are better – what about those that are much worse?
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betamax Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
To my wife, coming from Beijing, this place looks like a cultural backwater, a village. She only moved here because she couldn’t get a visa to the US.
What I like about Vancouver is not the city proper, but the geography in which it sits.
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realpaul Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
betamax:
#46 B, you’re not doing yourself any favours by saying that your wifes only reason for coming here was that she couldn’t get a visa into the US. Where does that leave your relationship if her visa comes through?
Nahhhhhhhh, just screwin’ wichcha. tooo easy.
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Arwen Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
We’re mainly staying in Vancouver for friends and family, but I was drawn to this area by the fact that it (once) was a small town in a big city. I am feeling pretty wrung out. It’s just too expensive.
I would move back to my Ontario hometown if my family hadn’t followed me here… The jobs are there, and we’d actually be able to live in a bit more space, possibly buying, AND put money away.
Sigh.
I’d still love Vancouver, not needing much entertainment besides my own, if it wasn’t hanging me upside down and shaking me to clear out all my loose change.
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Bilbo Bloggins Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
Hey #41, don’t knock the Chinese food.
The good stuff is in Richmond though, not Vancouver proper.
I’m over in Hong Kong and Macau every year and what we got here is right up there.
My two pence: Vancouver, great place to live. Lousy place to make money. Overpriced for what it offers… yes (currently).
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Ulsterman Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
I’m interested in the reason why those that REALLY hate Vancouver are still here? I’m not taunting anyone, just intrigued that you would invest lots of time and energy in finding a practical way to leave.
I loath the real-estate and shopping religion here with a passion, but much of the place works well for me. That’s because i like mountain biking and skiing – so it’s rational to stay somewhere that offers these pursuits at a world class level.
Agent will is correct – this is a very walkable North American city.
Amsterdam has come up in a few comments. As an 18-22 British student, weekends spent in Amsterdam with either friends or girlfriends smoking in the coffee shops, gawking in the sex emporiums, and riding bikes around the quirky streets was a blast. It gets old, just as you do. Holland is one of the blandest countries in Europe by far. Probably only Belgium attracts more scorn.
Anyway, we could all go on and on when this topic comes up. I’m just amused by the vehemency of the anti-Vancouver sentiment on this blog. You’re supposed to hate the house prices, not the entire place.
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patriotzed Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
visitor:
Vancouver is still much closer to a big lumber town than a cosmopolitan modern city, time for a reality check wetcouverites!!
Well actually I would disagree. It’s not close to either.
I can remember when Vancouver really was a big lumber town – with Bay Forest Products and Sweeney Cooperage operating where BC Place and condos now stand. It had real businesses that made real things, and it also had pretty well just as much ethnic diversity as it does now – just in different proportions. Not as much sushi and Starbucks as today, but still lots of great food.
Culture – well you had pretty much the same culture as today, except the rock music was way way better, and you didn’t have Phantom of the Opera et al.
And politer people, no monster houses, no leaky condos, much less traffic, no smog (you could see the mountains), very few homeless and few breakins (really).
And houses that cost about 4x median household income.
Vancouver has become Canada’s equivalent of Miami or Las Vegas – all hype and pretention, producing nothing of real value, just a conduit for hot money.
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betamax Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 12:48 am
I’m just amused by the vehemency of the anti-Vancouver sentiment on this blog.
People don’t necessarily hate it, they are merely countering the tsunami of hyperbolic boosterism they experience daily.
Heard daily on FM 104.9: “Best city on earth!” — sheesh.
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dboy Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 6:39 am
I think Vancouver found itself unwittingly thrust on the world stage due to its incredible natural setting. However, it went to its head.I think the place falls short to be a true world class city.
Vancouver is a very small city by international standards – difficult to compare to London or New York etc which have at least 10 times the population. Vancouver is more comparable to Leeds or Manchester for amenities etc – what it does have is a very accessible city that is relatively crime free and clean. I have also found vancouver to be a very walkable city – lots of great walks along the water fronts.
I moved here almost 17 years ago from Miami. I have also lived in Plymouth, Portsmouth, Manchester, Glasgow and Edinburgh and Moscow.
As for living in places surrounded by old buildings etc, it becomes part of the background, very, very quickly and most typical joes don’t live in the centers anyway, and much like us, live in new builds out of the centre.
I do find the night life here very disappointing, but you have to grow up at some point. I think Vancouver is a city for grown ups.
I think vancouver has some growing up to do. I hope we get there because in my book it sure has a lot going for it. I think betamax is right, its more of a case of vancouver being given a dressing down for trying to be something that it isn’t.
I personally will take vancouver over all the other places i’ve lived. But hey, that’s just me.
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dboy Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 6:44 am
Ulsterman:
As one brit to another – totally agree with you. I spent alot of time in Holland and Belgium in 1980’s when I was in the armed forces – hated the places.
I think I hit the ground running when i got the chance to move here. Amazes me how everyone goes on and on about how crap it is here. I think there are more positives than negatives.
Cheers!
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ReductiMat Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 7:09 am
RealPaul, in your opinion, what city should ‘we’ strive to be?
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Warren Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 7:44 am
Clearly self-hate is alive and strong in Vancouver. I think the people who constantly hate on Vancouver and yet live here are the ones that need to do some self-examination. You only live one. If you aren’t enjoying it, move. All in all, “Lighten up Francis!”
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patriotzed Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 8:13 am
Warren:
Clearly self-hate is alive and strong in Vancouver. I think the people who constantly hate on Vancouver and yet live here are the ones that need to do some self-examination.
What’s next? “Vancouver: love it or leave it” license plates? “You’re with Vancouver or you’re against us”? We’re already getting the message electronically, why not put it on metal?
And self-hate my ass. We hate the pretentious, greedy, tasteless, shallow people who have turned a great provincial city into a fake “world-class” city. That’s not everyone by any stretch, but they are the ones who’ve been controlling the agenda. And while we’re on the topic:
dboy:
I think Vancouver found itself unwittingly thrust on the world stage due to its incredible natural setting.
Unwittingly? Nonsense. It was a deliberate strategy of both the civic and provincial governments going back to the late 1970’s.
It’s worked pretty well so far (for those benefitting from it), but you can make a living for only so long by peddling your image. Eventually you have to do something useful. Paris Hilton will be able to live on her investment porfolio once the world gets tired of her, but we won’t.
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Steve Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 8:27 am
Ulsterman, I agree with you 100%.
Inflated house pricing is rediculous, the city is fantastic
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Heinz Skitzvelvett Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 8:45 am
I have to agree with the Frommers reviewer. Hate to say it, but
I shake my head every time I look closely at one of our license plates: a few days spent in Portland and its environs will quickly dispel the myth that Vancouver is the best place in Cascadia, let alone the world.
I’ve lived in Vancouver for almost fifteen years, and have the same love/hate relationship with the city that many do – mostly love for the two-and-a-half months of summer, mostly hate for the 6 months of Wet.
If I had more time this morning, I’d write much much more, but suffice it to say this is how I see our fair city of ours, for good and bad
-beautiful natural backdrop, close proximity to outdoor recreation and a photographer’s dream
-an improving public transportation infrastructure, even though the money could have been much better spent
-for some reason Vancouverites have a overbearing sense of entitlement and nimbyism, maybe it’s our long-inflated property values
-citizens on average could be much less insular and much more inclusive and tolerant of other cultures (and yes, that works in every direction)
-an opaque government system, both at provincial and municipal levels, which gets away with more than it should because we’re too busy buying Baby Bjorns and form-fitting, ass-sculpting yoga pants
-a propensity to believe our own press, especially that we are are one of the most livable cities when we can’t even look after the diseased and downtrodden.
that being said, we make our lipsticked-pig of a city what it is by how we act and treat one another – so go find the best that Vancouver has to offer, make the most of it
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Warren Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 9:06 am
patriotzed,
My point was that the people hating on Vancouver yet living here “only for family” or “only for jobs” are no better than those proclaiming it is the best place on earth. Both are coming at the argument from unrealistic negative and positive angles. Heinz makes good points and sums it up well. Although I would comment on the inclusive/tolerant point. It certainly needs improvement, but the racial and cultural harmony is miles ahead of many other democratic nations. It’s sad, but true.
To me this is just another example of why “the grass is always greener” is such a well used cliche.
Of course real estate is overvalued here, but rents aren’t. Start comparing rents to the other cities out there and I think you’ll see Vancouver is well worth what you get.
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gvrdpropertyowner Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Vancouver shares something with every other city- its real estate was bid up by local buyers. The “everybody wants to live here” store just isn’t supported by the data- only 6% of real estate transactions in B.C. involve non-residents, and almost half of those individuals are from that distant and exotic place called Alberta.
If Vancouver is to remain the most expensive city in North America to purchase real estate in relative to incomes, it will be because those who already live here continue to believe that the current prices are justifiable. Assuming they continue to have the resources to do so. As such, the key leading indicators are employment and financing cost- everything else is just noise.
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Anonymous Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 9:28 am
The folks in Cleveland should start pushing their prices up.
Comparable size, higher wages and they have that river!
Clearly the true best place in the world is Cleveland. They have buildings, the odd office, starbucks and people don’t they?
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son Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 10:09 am
I lived in Milwaukee for years. And Milwaukee is really some ungodly boring place on earth.
Winter really sucks there, but people there have way more Summer activities than the best place on earth.
Also, beer is 50% cheaper and way more choices than here.
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A Solution Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 10:30 am
If you want to make real estate more affordable, one part of the solution is to restrict foreign ownership (in conjunction with strengthening lending practices). Place restrictions on owning property around citizenship, time in country, etc. Several asian countries have imposed such restrictions, with Japan being the most notable.
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Spectrum Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 10:33 am
Vancouver can be a boring city I guess if you don’t like the mountains, don’t go skiing, don’t go hiking and don’t like riding your bike or jogging on the seawall. But if you do, its pretty good when its not raining. One thing I always like about Vancouver is the lack of urban sprawling compared to other cities in North America. In Vancouver you can at least walk to alot of stuff, and if your downtown you don’t even need a car.
On the other hand, I always wonder why tourist come here, especially older tourist that aren’t into outdoors stuff. If the property values come down here by at least 50% that should bring down one of the problems here. If it rained 50% less here, that would be great too.
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realpaul Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 10:49 am
The unemployment stats today show that the market is still in freefall. The growing welfare stats show that reality is starting to bite. The silver lining? Civil servant pay continues to increase while everyone else loses.
http://www.vancouversun.com/Bu.....story.html
Van shitzer is a place for immigrants and refugees from doubly bad shitholes, of which there are a few. Oh aren’t we proud that we lord over Mogadishu in bushwalking trails.
But this doesn’t excuse the incessant cheerleading. Lets stop pretending, this is a sewage splashed, roach infested crack house surrounded by a flotilla of desperate suburbanites who can’t seem to rent enough personality.
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Warren Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 10:59 am
The troll is strong with realpaul.
Why all of the sewage comments? That’s Victoria that sends their sewage into the ocean untreated, not the GVRD.
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oneangryslav Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Shorter realpaul (regardless of the topic/post): “Get off my lawn, you damn kids!!!”
I find realpaul’s view of Vancouver distorted, to say the least. On the other hand, I find the views of those who have to rush to defend Vancouver at every turn equally delusional.
Let’s try to get some perspective, people. Vancouver is not New York, or London, or Beijing; hell, it’s not Toronto or Philly when it comes to cultural amenities and the like. That being said, there is a lot more to do than those of the realpaul ilk claim there is (and yes, many of these things are not nature-bound either).
Anyone who has lived in a real global city is immediately aware of the level of provincialism of this burg, and I also get annoyed by things such as that radio station’s byline–”best place on earth.”
In the end, “best place on earth” is a ridiculous concept as it is so subjective. So may I ask that both the insecure “best-place-on-earthers” and the misanthropic “realpaul-types” try to adjust their views to a little bit more closely match the reality.
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Anonymous Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
The city itself is nothing particularly special, the surrounding nature is pretty nice. Culturally, Vancouver doesn’t compete with larger centers like New York or Paris, or even Toronto for that matter. Its history as a sort of hamlet on the west coast frontier does give it its own charm, but that charm is quickly being destroyed by the whole “best place on earth” condo boom lunacy. Ironic.
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Anonymous Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Also, Whistler is distasteful, Victoria smells so much like scented candles it gives me a headache, and Nanaimo… well, the last time I stayed there fist fights spilled out on the street from the strip club near my hotel window almost every single night.
To my mind Vancouver stands as the cream of a fairly confused crop right now.
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Adrienne Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Cosmopolitan Vancouver.
Where the lovely quality of life means you and take your child to the park and meet a beaten homeless person at the same time.
Where multitasking means doing the grocery shopping and being involved in a gang shooting.
Where job opporunity means a “budding” career in one of the two rising industies: grow crops and plastic surgery.
When 50% of your income goes to housing, how can locals afford to go to the theater or museum?
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Citizen Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
“Blandcouver”
This is Vancouver buddy not Blandcouver.
“where it often masquerades as other, more interesting cities.”
Are you judge in the court who is throwing one sided forcefull verdict on us?
“just duller”
Never give up your negativity habits,This city is not duller than your brain.
“we have some Chinese people as well as the Anglo-Canadians.”
They are everywhere in the world specially in all the cities you had mention.
“Anyone who thinks Vancouver is cosmopolitan has never been south or east of Portland. Most of Vancouver’s other attributes, meanwhile, are seen in better form in either Portland, Seattle, or San Francisco.”
So those are the areas you want vancouverites to visit or live,Are you real estate agent for those cities or you work for travel agency? Oh actually story begin from there right YUVRAJ(juraj)right there “Juraj sent in this link to a suprisingly negative travel review of Vancouver by a Frommers travel guide writer”.
Listen carefully kids Vancouver is the “BEST PLACE ON EARTH-MIND IT COPULSORY
“.
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Citizen Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
MIND IT COMPULSORY
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Anonymous Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
“When 50% of your income goes to housing, how can locals afford to go to the theater or museum?”
Pick up two part time jobs one in theater and one in museum.
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VanBanker Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
“visitor Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Most Asians don’t make income here in Vancouver, they are just here to visit, study and spend. That is what Vancouver condo price is soo high. Looking just at the local income level sometimes can be misleading. To me Vancouver is really not the best city on earth but its not the worst either. 3.5/5 compare to Tokyo or Hong Kong.”
I agree that Vancouver is over-rated, but I’ve visited Tokyo multiple times and I lived in HK, and neither is perfect either; I would consider living in Tokyo long-term except the xenophobia of most people in Japan bothers my conscience.
Tokyo is great, excellent transit, relatively clean, polite people, great shopping, food, lots of places to travel to in Japan, etc. The work culture is terrible though unless you work for a foreign company.
HK is just as over-rated as Vancouver, but for different reasons. Other than shopping and eating (and the food there is way overrated as well in my opinion) there is very little to do. The pollution and “urban heat island” problems are brutal. And the work culture is terrible as well, again unless you work for a foreign company. I would also point out that I personally think people who grow up there suffer from both “island thinking” (they’re very narrow minded) and “post-British Empire hangover” as they look up to British schools, universities, and accents too much.
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VanBanker Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
oneangryslav:
Oneangryslav makes a balance point. Vancouver is more of a “provincial” city and shouldn’t really be compared to NY Paris etc in terms of cultural amenities.
Although personally I’m optimistic we might be able to turns things around and improve the city alot over the next 10-20 years.
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VanBanker Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
“realpaul Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 10:49 am
But this doesn’t excuse the incessant cheerleading. Lets stop pretending, this is a sewage splashed, roach infested crack house surrounded by a flotilla of desperate suburbanites who can’t seem to rent enough personality.”
Realpaul, if you dislike Vancouver so much why do you live here? Personally I’m here for family and friends; during the summer I think it’s a beautiful city and during the winter there is great skiing at Whistler. But if most of my friends end up leaving, I would probably leave as well.
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VanBanker Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
“A Solution Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 10:30 am
If you want to make real estate more affordable, one part of the solution is to restrict foreign ownership (in conjunction with strengthening lending practices). Place restrictions on owning property around citizenship, time in country, etc. Several asian countries have imposed such restrictions, with Japan being the most notable.”
That’s one thing I totally agree with, and I’ve raised it before on this forum.
Loal real estate prices should be supported primarily by local incomes, otherwise things get totally distorted.
However, I another important part of this is cracking down on money-laundering, there is tons of drug money being laundered through the purchase of real estate in Vancouver, which creates “artificial” demand (I’m calling it artificial because it’s created by illegal income).
I have a friend who is a lawyer and he made a point that politicians at the city and provincial levels have an interest in avoiding the money-laundering issue because they want real estate prices to stay up.
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Anonymous Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
What about giving away lawyers job.Aren’t they representing criminals,drug dealers etc.
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buff_butler Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
I think its a great place to visit however why 1/2 the people live there I don’t understand. If your part of the category of “unskilled” labour the wages are so low and cost of living so high that you basically can never get ahead.
Oh wait but you could risk everything in zero down over-leveraged real estate however that game only goes on so long. If it doesn’t fully correct this time it will next time; unfortunatly only time will tell.
I remember watching some schiller clips a while ago and he mentioned in one particular exmaple “prices wen’t up simply based on expectation because they did before.” I would argue that this sentace holds true in Vancouver.
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say no Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
As long as we keep getting refugees and immigrants from places that are still fighting malnourishment and hunger, to make up for our declining population, do not expect anything sophisticated to happen here culturally or in a gastronmic level.
We will go from bad to worse. Just keep eating boiled rice and chiken wings, it is the best delicacy you can get.
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rado@freemarkets.ca Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
I dunno, the article also mentions Venice as the “smelliest tourist trap”. I have been to Venice several times and never experienced the bad smell described by some people (who, I suspect, never visited that city). It’s also not true that “almost nobody lives there”, unless 271,000 inhabitants are nobody.
As for Vancouver, it may not be the most interesting city for a tourist (most North American cities aren’t), but it’s a good place to live (if you don’t consider the insane real estate prices).
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Stephen King Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
I just heard some sad news on talk radio – pop star Michael Jackson was found dead in his Los Angeles home this morning. There weren’t any more details yet. I’m sure we’ll all miss him, even if you weren’t a fan of his work there’s no denying his contribution to popular culture. Truly an American icon.
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oneangryslav Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
say no:
This is truly an ignorant statement. Refugees come from all walks of life; they are not only itinerant workers and manual labourers, but doctors, engineers, computer technicians, teachers, etc. The only characteristic that that have in common is that they fled (or were forced out of) their homeland as the result of war, famile, environmental degradation, etc. I’d suggest thinking about the old saying that it’s “better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”
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asp Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
You folks need to broaden your horizons and get out a bit more.
There is more to life in this city then admiring the mountains from a coffee shop while watching sports on the big screen.
Vancouver has some great cultural festivals. The Jazz Fest starts this weekend, for example. We have tons of world class musicians living in our midst, on par with the offerings in Amsterdam.
Robson Street? Forget about it. Come down to a street fest on Commercial Drive.
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betamax Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
I just heard some sad news on talk radio – pop star Michael Jackson was found dead
Another pedophile gone. So what’s the sad news?
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Chilled Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
parisian tourist Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 6:49 ……………………………………………………………………………….but my mistress is hot hot and I will keep coming to this lovely place, au revoir mes amis!
==================
I know your mistress and I confess that I have been pegging her in your absence. You are absolutely correct, she is hot!!!
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Jon Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
Let’s get real. This is one cranky travel writer. If Vancouver really is an undesirable travel destination and bland city in general, this blog and the sky high real estate prices in the city wouldn’t exist.
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parisian tourist Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
Chilled Says:
I know your mistress and I confess that I have been pegging her in your absence. You are absolutely correct, she is hot!!!
======================
Chilled, I did not know you are into shemales too….
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Little Says:
June 26th, 2009 at 6:28 am
For some reason, this particular post keeps haunting me and the reality is, that yes, Vancouver is a pretty great place to live, it is just difficult not to have some sort of buyers remorse when housing (rent included) costs doubled in five years. Yes, some of us are certainly bitter, but we are also tired of working ourselves into the ground to enjoy this “laid back west coast lifestyle” we are all supposed to enjoy.
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dboy Says:
June 26th, 2009 at 6:36 am
Warren:
Only for jobs? Hate to point out we are in a recession and where one can get decent work is going to be a big decider.
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Arwen Says:
June 26th, 2009 at 10:44 am
I am currently looking to rent a new place here, so I’m spending a fair amount of time looking at listings. I have also been tracking, for comparison, in Toronto ( I used to live there so I know the area.)
Rents seem to be suffering serious price compression, so the once cheap stuff is nearing the same price as the nicer stuff. Basements for the same price as suites, location not making much of a difference, etc.
Of course, that’s looking on Craigslist, but Craigslist Toronto seems to be showing more of a spread.
Of course, that could be an artifact of how we rent here,or the fact I’m looking, uh, five days before people generally give notice. The bottom of the barrel?
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Anonymous Says:
June 26th, 2009 at 11:33 am
#92 Arwen
Suites in 5-10 year old buildings in yaletown that were going for $1500+ and had multiple applicants are now vacant for over a month @$1300. They will have to come down more because
680 sq ft brand new units on the 28th floor of TV Towers are going for $1390 @prompton.
That’s a brand new minimum of $420k+ GST and PPT unit for $1390!
The GST will take two years to three years (once you subtract strata fees) of rent to pay off!
In two years it’ll be a two year old condo and the rent won’t ever increase it’ll actually decrease as the rent stays the same and inflation comes into play.
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Arwen Says:
June 26th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
Yes, I think rents will actually come down, Anon, especially on the low end as stuff jostles around in the higher end. The higher end rents seem priced pretty well, but the low end is evaporating; you can get housed quite nicely for $2000-, but that’s quite a bit out of the range of low-income families. And there are more and more low income families.
I live in the West End right now, and there used to be the standby “discount” buildings; the ones a little bit ramshackle but with a lot of character. No elevators, sporadic upkeep, maybe a bit of a musty smell, and kitchens from the 1940s. They’re disappearing, the low end; and although I don’t know other areas very well, I’m having a hard time finding the equivalents elsewhere. (Shabby chic, mind you, not crack-houses – the bohemian low end for starving artists.)
Anyway, the Kenilworth still sails bravely on, as does Holly Court, so it’s still here a bit.
Just not easy to find.
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Anonymous Says:
June 26th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Arwen, if you check the downtownsuites listing there is or was one for Harbour Green 3.
Prompton also has one for cheaper ($5k)but the downtownsuites one was more candid.
It said something along the lines of “with $1 million down and the best interest rate this suite would cost $20,000 per month. Available for rent at $5,950″
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rebootme Says:
June 26th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
Totally agree that Vancouver is bland, bland, bland! I’ve lived in Vancouver and Sydney, Australia, which has often been compared to Vancouver. Of the two, Sydney’s harbour, beaches, culture, cosmopolitan atmosphere, people, lifestyle, etc. makes Vancouver a cruddy little backwater town. Vancouverites are so delusionial about their city that they need to keep repeating to themselves “best place on earth to live, best place on earth to live” to filter out reality. The people living in Sydney didn’t need to do this.
Vancourites get real… Vancouver is a hovel!
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RennieWhereRU? Says:
June 26th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
Agree 100% with Rebootme, lived in Sydney as well for a couple of years, unreal city! But did run into some folks that pumped the same BS best place on earth as here, but no where to the same extent.
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read on Says:
June 26th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
meh, sydney ain’t that hot. nice place, but full of australians!
kidding aside, it’s a great city, but it too has it’s problems – like the horrific commute many have to put up with to find somewhere affordable to live – a bit like Van in that regard. beaches are nice tho, but the skiing sucks. 
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Tom Says:
June 27th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Vancouver only gets knocked because it appears at the top of certain surveys. I love the place but then I love the outdoors and that’s what Vancouver gives you access to – more than any city I know of. As for culture, there is plenty in Vancouver. If you like live music, there are a couple of great venues. There are various Arts festivals throughout the year. If you like watching sport – for hockey there’s the Canucks and the Giants. The Nat Bailey Stadium is my favourite baseball venue in Canada. Vancouver has an MLS soccer team for 2011 to provide more options. If you like playing sport, there’s an enormous amount of choice – by far and away the most activities in Canada, particularly as you can do them year round. To compare Vancouver with Portland, Seattle and San Fran doesn’t make sense. They are four completely different cities.
As for being diverse – Vancouver is, along with Toronto – one of the most diverse cities in the world. That comments about “we have some Chinese people as well as the Anglo-Canadians” was incredibly purile and totally inaccurate. I suspect the writer spent one day in the city and went to Chinatown for his “diverse” experience. The food choice you get here is simply amazing – and it’s half the price of, say, Europe. My favourite vancouver thing? The farmers markets. I’m not a cheerleader for the city – I just think people have a go at it because it’s up there in surveys to be shot down, and that’s what people like to do. If Vancouver finished mid table, no-one would comment on the place.
As for the “Best in the world” license plate thing – that’s for BC not Vancouver. And it’s called marketing. New Zealand calls itself Gods Own Country. There are many other examples.
The only bad thing about vancouver for me is the very poor nightlife, but then I’ve grown out of clubbing and pubbing and there are plenty of quiet pubs for drinks with friends. The thing about Vancouver that people forget is – it’s only 100 or so years old. A mere toddler when compared with other cities.
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Tom Says:
June 27th, 2009 at 11:43 am
PS. I constantly hear about vancouver having a “high cost of living”. Can this be proven? Yes, it’s expensive to buy a house. But food, rent, and everything else? I cohabit and we live comfortably on a joint income of around $75,000 a year. Sure, I’ll never buy a house on that income, which is why I read blogs like this to keep an eye on when prices will come own to normal levels, but I’m not bothered if I have to rent forever.
My cost of living here when compared to Toronto is considerably less – I had to spend a fortune on heating in winter and air con in summer while in TO. I earned around 20% more income there but spent a lot more time cooped up indoors or scurrying around through underground malls and subways to keep cool/warm depending on the season. TO does have nicer pubs and more museums though.
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No Longer Looking Says:
June 27th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
“As for culture, there is plenty in Vancouver.”
But no more than your typical North American city. Arts festivals, sports teams and farmers markets are everywhere, even in small cities, and everyone thinks they’re special because of it.
“They are four completely different cities.”
Not as different as they used to be. North American corporate culture has made us all the same in so many ways.
There is nothing of world-class cultures distinction in this city, nothing. We suffer badly from ugly buildings everywhere, have a small arts scene thanks to high costs for space, and people here develop their bodies not their minds.
One notable thing we used to have was a fiery political scene. I barely even noticed the last election. In some ways I miss the wild personalities and animated debates of the past. Politically, we make PEI look exciting now.
We do have a wide variety of affordable food, but lets not go wild over this. Much of Central Canada can compete.
“I cohabit and we live comfortably on a joint income of around $75,000 a year.”
Yeah, but you’d live a lot better in most other North American cities. Most people don’t have a huge complaint about rents. I think we had perhaps had a 10% temporary bump up due to demand from people here for the construction boom. Now things look better with the oversupply of housing.
This is an OK place to live. I was born and raised here (fourth generation) but moved away for several years. I’m back for family reasons, and wouldn’t be here otherwise. I don’t hate this place. I guess you could say I barely like it on a good day (like today).
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RennieWhereRU? Says:
June 27th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Just wondering, do grocery stores in any other city require $0.25 or $1 deposit to release the chain. Only two gang related shootings in last 24 hours. What’s going on gangsters, pretty quiet. Are you in Eurpoe for your summer vacation?
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read on Says:
June 27th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
it because they are all out on their boats.
annoying kayakers, seals, eagles and whales with their retarded music.
someone pass me a torpedo, or at least an amusingly-uncharted rock.
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dboy Says:
June 27th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
rebootme:
Yep sydney nice place – just as well because you’re in the middle of nowhere – as is the case with oz in general.
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dboy Says:
June 27th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
For those on here who think Vancouver is a third world city passing itself off as something else, why are you going on and on about vancouver real estate?
I intend on staying here and hope prices will fall so I can buy something decent. But if i hated the place I certainly wouldn’t be buying here, I would be planning my exit strategy. Seems odd to me.
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other ted Says:
June 27th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
Some people hate the city on here but I think that is a misrepresentation of the debate. There are people fanatically in love with it and people who are annoyed with this obsesion with itself. I grew up in vancouver and both sides on here make valid points. I think culturally the city lacks unless you compare it to calgary or some other cultural backwater. In that case vancouver rocks. Then again Calgary has a museum. Vancouve doesn’t.
Here are my observations. As a kid late 70’s to early 90’s I saw things get worse. The 90’s was the era when most festivals were cancelled. The city became expensive and more uptight. The media would come up with “vancouver no fun city” and they were right. I would say after this last boom there have been big improvements in downtown city life and cafe culture. And I do notice that they are getting some of the old festivals back.
So does this make us world class no. Better than a lot of other cities in Canada but not world class.
Lets move on. So what other reasons do people come for tourism. The other is activities. As for activities the city has hikes, water so you can do activities like sea kayak or windsurf. In the winter ski. I think in terms of summer activities the city is positive in terms of lifestyle for city residents but I would never fly here from another country for any of those activities. In terms of a winter destination I can see whistler being world class.
In therms of food I think the city has good value. Compared to other cities in western canada its phenomenal. And I think it holds its own compared to the west coast. Is it food unique to the area. No. Again wouldn’t fly here for that.
As for night life the city is happening. Problem with the night life is its the people that go out. Its a very cliquy city. And every city has a similar nightlife in Canada. Again nothing special.
So all you pumpers you make a point as to why vancouver is liveable but none as to why its a world class destination.
I believe Vancouver is very liveable for those who can afford it. But that is the catch not many can.
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Tom Says:
June 28th, 2009 at 5:58 am
#101 “But no more than your typical North American city. ”
But why compare cities? What’s the point? You live where you live. If you have the freedom to choose where you live then you choose somewhere that offers what you want. Ditto when you go on vacation you choose somewhere that offers things that you like doing. So to move to Vancouver, or even just visit, and then complain there aren’t as many museums as Toronto or not as good pubs as Portland or not as nice a bridge as San Fran is completely pointless.
There’s a thing called the internet that lets you research exactly what vancouver is like before you move here or come on holiday here. Complaining about the place and comparing it to other cities is completely and utterly pointless. The people I love most are the ones who complain about the rain. I love rain which is just as well as it rains a lot in Vancouver, but it’s not exactly a secret that it rains here so quite why people complain so much about it when they visit is beyond me. If you want guaranteed sun, visit LA. Vancouver has a lot going for it depending on what type of place you like to live in. And as for affordability, it really depends on what kind of lifestyle you choose to live and whether owning a home is the be all and end all of your life.
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Tom Says:
June 28th, 2009 at 6:01 am
#101 as for this – “There is nothing of world-class cultures distinction in this city, nothing.”
Actually, the location is world class for a city this size as anyone who has travelled will acknowledge. There are very, very few cities with the kind of location – not just the ocean and mountains, but the islands in the Georgia Straight. Sydney would be the closest and it simply doesn’t compare for climate and easy access to amazing, and diverse, outdoors activities year round (in my opinion as someone who has lived there).
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dboy Says:
June 28th, 2009 at 9:04 am
other ted:
Well said Ted, that was essentially what i was trying to say. ‘NICE PLACE’ but falls short of being world class. Guess it depends where you are comparing to also – compared to the average British city – Vancouver rocks!
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whatever Says:
June 30th, 2009 at 1:06 am
I live out in the valley, travled about during the 90’s and have watched your DT Vancouver turn into a hell hole over the past 15 years. Try a city like Aukland NZ, it was nice years ago. I DON’T travel into DT unless I have to for these following reasons.
Maybe 1 concert a year (if there is someone in town worth spending money on)
3 months ago I had to get a test done in St.Pauls. Parked a few blocks from the hospital, walking the short distance to the appointment I was accosted no less then 6 times for money, smokes, or just targeted. The last guy was extremely PUSHY as to why I wasn’t giving him 2bucks after I told him to F-off.
To those who want to live and defend your mighty city, have at it. I refuse to go there till our screwed systems start to clean itself up. Read this Mr. Robertson and Cambell. You are going to be a laughing stock in 2010 if you don’t look hard at cleaning up that cess pool called crack-couver.
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Neil Says:
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Vancouver is surely the best place on earth to live ! Mountains, the ocean, beaches, parks, skiing, snowboarding, hiking, climbing, walking, fishing, restaurants – food, night life, the fireworks, jazz fest, shopping…… i could go on and on forever. This City is definitely a marvelous place to live and visit. Real Estate is quite expensive but that’s true for most places now, you will find that in most Cities. The rain season does put a bit of a downer on things but hey is that not the same in other Cities too?
The people that live in Vancouver and complain about how it isn’t a great place to be should really come back down to earth and realize that there aren’t many other places on earth that offer such high standards of living whilst providing/offering a wide variety of recreational niceties.
You guys dont know how good you have it here, don’t take it for granted.
Vancouver rocks and it doesn’t cost anything to go out in or around the City and have a great time with friends and family !
This is the best place on earth!
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whatever Says:
July 2nd, 2009 at 11:40 pm
Neil, put down your crack pipe and stop flogging the “best place on earth BS”. go out and see the rest of the world before you spout that crap.
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Ana Says:
July 30th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
For those that want to get ahead, to strive to be better at their job, to make it on an international level… want recognition…
Move somewhere else.
Vancouver is filled with people who play hard.. and enjoy life… no doubt about that… but work hard? Not really. If you have family and want a less stressful life and you can afford it.. Vancouver is fantastic!
But yes.. you need to afford it. A house in a good neighbourhood in Toronto or Montreal will cost you $500,000.. the same thing here.. it’s at least $1,000,000….
For the twenty-thirty year old with no mom and dad to foot the bill… it’s a HORRIFYING prospect to try to get ahead.. even when you make a solid income.