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June 24th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
I’m interested in the reason why those that REALLY hate Vancouver are still here? I’m not taunting anyone, just intrigued that you would invest lots of time and energy in finding a practical way to leave.
I loath the real-estate and shopping religion here with a passion, but much of the place works well for me. That’s because i like mountain biking and skiing – so it’s rational to stay somewhere that offers these pursuits at a world class level.
Agent will is correct – this is a very walkable North American city.
Amsterdam has come up in a few comments. As an 18-22 British student, weekends spent in Amsterdam with either friends or girlfriends smoking in the coffee shops, gawking in the sex emporiums, and riding bikes around the quirky streets was a blast. It gets old, just as you do. Holland is one of the blandest countries in Europe by far. Probably only Belgium attracts more scorn.
Anyway, we could all go on and on when this topic comes up. I’m just amused by the vehemency of the anti-Vancouver sentiment on this blog. You’re supposed to hate the house prices, not the entire place.
June 24th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
Hey #41, don’t knock the Chinese food.
The good stuff is in Richmond though, not Vancouver proper.
I’m over in Hong Kong and Macau every year and what we got here is right up there.
My two pence: Vancouver, great place to live. Lousy place to make money. Overpriced for what it offers… yes (currently).
June 24th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
We’re mainly staying in Vancouver for friends and family, but I was drawn to this area by the fact that it (once) was a small town in a big city. I am feeling pretty wrung out. It’s just too expensive.
I would move back to my Ontario hometown if my family hadn’t followed me here… The jobs are there, and we’d actually be able to live in a bit more space, possibly buying, AND put money away.
Sigh.
I’d still love Vancouver, not needing much entertainment besides my own, if it wasn’t hanging me upside down and shaking me to clear out all my loose change.
June 24th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
betamax:
#46 B, you’re not doing yourself any favours by saying that your wifes only reason for coming here was that she couldn’t get a visa into the US. Where does that leave your relationship if her visa comes through?
Nahhhhhhhh, just screwin’ wichcha. tooo easy.
June 24th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
To my wife, coming from Beijing, this place looks like a cultural backwater, a village. She only moved here because she couldn’t get a visa to the US.
What I like about Vancouver is not the city proper, but the geography in which it sits.
June 24th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
While I agree that the night life is dull and real estate over priced, I find much I like about this place. Quite frankly I read these comments and wonder if I’m that blind ? Am I living in the same place?
I have been to better places, lived in a few, but Vancouver is alright in my books. Would I leave if I wasn’t settled in my career? Perhaps.
I think the problem is that Vancouver is naively pretending to be better than it is which in turn causes such responses. Vancouver is overly provincial but there are many things that are right.
I prefer Vancouver to anywhere i’ve lived in the UK and with the exception of San Diego, the US.
Vancouver is a nice place – nothing more nothing else. Is it completely bland? Perhaps for a twenty something – but not for this 40 something – I take comfort in the pace of life, love the mountains, enjoy the restaurants and love exploring the city on foot – and contrary to the article Seattle is not better than Vancouver.
It’s easy to point out places that are better – what about those that are much worse?
June 24th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
Will,
Vancouver is ” a people town immaculately planned…”
You can’t seriously believe that. Can I take a guess what you do for a living? And “house parties:? Really? That’s what you come up with in lieu of a great entertainment district? (If you were making a joke I apologize.)
The Vancouver I grew up in was small and great. But it has changed. I think the slogan “the best place on earth” was created by VANOC to distract people from the problems this city has developed.
“Hey, Did you hear there was another shooting death last night?”
“Yeah, but look at those beautiful mountains!”
“Isn’t there a lot of drug production and use there?”
“Well, yes. But you know there are also no legal consequences so that spells OPPORTUNITY! ”
“Wow, there sure seem to be a lot of homeless.”
“Best climate on Earth to be homeless! I just hope they do the right thing and go be homeless somewhere else while the Winter Olympics are going on. The homeless are such an eyesore.”
“I hear the taxes are very high in Vancouver.”
“It costs money to be the best! Besides you now own part of the OLYMPIC LEGACY! And did you know that drug production is TAX FREE!”
“The price of houses are incredibly high.”
“What do you expect. It’s the best place on earth! You’d be lucky to buy a house! Duh! Didn’t you see those beautiful mountains? Didn’t you hear me mention the OLYMPICS?!”
“How’s the economy?”
“OLYMPICS!!! BEAUTIFUL MOUNTAINS!!!! WHY CAN’T I GET THROUGH TO YOU??!!! IT’S THE BEST PLACE ON FRIGGIN’ EARTH!!”
“I hear it’s kind of dull?”
“Two words…HOUSE PARTY!!…And…er…um…oh, never mind.”
This city needs serious help. And the two week snow frolic we’ve got planned will do nothing to address the issues. Then again, we got great dope! And look at those mountains!
June 24th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
I so agree with this article.
We’re far from being a cosmopolitan, it’s a town with people thinking they are sophisticated. While they really come off as clueless, uneducated wannabes.
Nice city if you’re into the outdoors, bums, constant whining about something, rain, overpriced cost of living, small town thinking, pot, and did i mention more rain?
I was overseas on vacation and while checking into my hotel a couple from Vancouver was checking in beside me. The girl at the counter asked where they were from and they proudly stated ‘Yaletown’.
I just rolled my eyes and continued with checking in, I should of busted them.
June 24th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
#2 Dave is an admitted troll who also pretends to be an idiot & a moron and is a troll.
He even listed off all the names he uses. Just ignore him.
June 24th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
I visited this place several times over a period of 20 years, one of my mistress lives here. Vancouver is located very beautifully between mountains and the ocean.
I had the opportunity to meet many people here and be invited to parties. Here are some observations:
- vancouverites are nice and hardworking people in general
- food is filthy in this city (but this is valid for most North America, like our Toqueville justly said, 30 religions and one sause
- it is annoying to here people talk only about real estate, morgage rates and cars, it lacks taste completely. Don’t you have smth else to talk about?
- most people make a living selling houses and cars to each other , hence the low level of sophistication
- evth is designed for fast eating, cars are designed for eating and drinking inside, so people can save time, and after don’t know what to do with their time. Even barbecues are all propane made, no charcoal barbecues here, how can you eat the meet cooked on a propane barbecue is beyond me…
- girls lack style generally, I would be embarrassed to take them out to a chic restaurant for dinner. I have only seen here and in a remote city in Russia people drink beer directly from the bottle, it is disgusting. Don’t you guys have glasses?
- wine and alcohol choice is limited, and those available are of very poor taste generally, it is funny that government levies “sin taxes” on liquor here, the name says it all, cultural life is dead here.
- most people drive big ugly cars
- most people seem obsessed with healthy lifestyle and end up living a beyond boring lifestyle.
- one would expect some genuine chinese and indian places given their great number here, but to get good chinese food one has to go rather to San Francisco. I went to classy indian and Chinese restaurants in India and china but here it is filthy, nothing to do with the original thing.
- night life is miserable here, most people live beyond their means in this city
- there is not even a walking only boulevard in downtown, how can cultural life develop?
- I think seattle is way better than Vancouver
but my mistress is hot hot and I will keep coming to this lovely place, au revoir mes amis!
June 24th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Hey crew, Stu here to remind you we have Tony Parsons and lots of young cute asian tarts. Seattle? Flying fish in a market and costly health care, not important to boomers like Stu.
June 24th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
RealPaul, in your opinion, what city should ‘we’ strive to be?
June 24th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
The article trashed 9 other destinations in Asia, the US and Europe. Funny how most defensive responses are from Vancouver. We’ll know we’re World Class when Vancouverites shrug their shoulders and say “whatever” to articles like this.
June 24th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
The article is too soft on the “Shitty of Vancouver” IMHO. I think the pretentious pumping is sickening yes, over-rated oh hell yes, but I would like to see a compilation article/review that details the all the reasons why it’s over-rated.
1)the 1 billion liters a day in raw sewage into the water ways on onto the beaches.
2) the emphasis on ‘bushwalking’ because there really isn’t anything else to cling to
3) the dope and booze culture pervading the mind set of the youth because there is F-All else for them to do except ‘bushwalk’ in mindless circles.
4)a cynical politically correct society that can walk over the bodies of homeless, addicts, mentally challenged to get into thier ‘bushwalking’ regalia.
5) The bedbugs infesting 99% of the hotels
6) Crackheads and junkie crime like no where else
7) killer cops without restraint. Shitcouver is the city where the majority of cop killings occurs. More than any other western capital
9)the herpes and clymidia capital of the world
10) zero art culture
11) zero social culture)
12) Freaking lousy weather MOST of the year.
13) cosmopolitan means cosmopolitan not pretense
14) rats and cockroach infestation has bloomed exponetially. The best restaurants in the city scare the pest control guys to death.
15) Luddites have taken over Shitty Hall and have reneged on their promise to help the homeless. Instead they are going to force the bycicle issue as a way to try to redirect the anger over the infantile transportation plan.
16) Sky train cars , all two of them, have no air con and the sardines are really starting to stink and stab at each other like rats in a cage. It was not a transit system that was designed for urban use. Only the bus drivers union can be happy with the ‘dinky toy’ the shitty is trying to ass off as transit.
OK, I could be here all night. There are very few return visitors to Vancshitzer. Thats another egg that tourism BC is trying to hide. It’s being marketed as a cheaper Mexico to Europeans whose currency buys Shitcouver on a two for one basis. We all saw what happened when the CDN dollar went to par. The numbers fell off a cliff.
June 24th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Heh. I wonder if the ego-bruised Vancouverites complaining to Frommers will get that removed from their site.
June 24th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
Will: “You can walk anywhere, and for North America it has no comparison when it comes to walkability (from end to end).”
Uh. I admit to not being to many North American cites, but I don’t find Vancouver any more ‘walkable’ than Victoria or Portland. There are many European cities that are much more ‘walkable’ and ‘bikeable’ than Vancouver: Copenhagen, Amsterdam & Oslo come to mind – that’s what we should strive for.
June 24th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
will take it easy I think you take yourself and your city to seriously. So what Vancouver isn’t for everyone. It is for you. I think that is the point most are making stop hyping this place up. Its not the greatest place on earth for most, just some. Why do you have to justify it to others.
June 24th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
Spend your time in Victoria instead, or Whistler, or, heck, Nanaimo.
…granted Nanaimo has culture….
the main lead item on the news invariably
tends to feature the Nanaimo chapter of
the Hells Angels………
June 24th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
To see the responses on this site you’d think there’d be traffic stretching to the East and South, and a line-up at YVR, to get out of here. Gimme a break.
So one tourist didn’t find much interesting in Vancouver. Well, I’ve travelled all of Europe (most, anyways) and there were plenty of cities I went to that I didn’t find to interesting at that time. Maybe now, 10 years later, I would. But there were plenty of places that, at the time, I just wasn’t in the mood for.
Here’s my experience with coming to understand Vancouver. It IS a people town immaculately planned and set against a beautiful backdrop. You can walk anywhere, and for North America it has no comparison when it comes to walkability (from end to end). It has incredible parks and seawalls you all take for granted. It has fantastic dining. It has incredible hiking/sports in the mountains. It has the largest (AFAIK) Ultimate Frisbee league in the world.
It does not have good bars/night clubs but those that are good are small and need to be introduced. It does not have a good nightlife in public spaces but if you meet some folk and get along you will get invited to one heck of a house party, roof top party, boat cruise party, cabin party, etc. People do tend to go to bed early (compared to other places in the world, such as Toronto, LA, Madrid, Tokyo, etc.) but they are also more likely to get up early (crack of dawn) to go jogging/rollerblading along the seawall, with dog leading the way. It is a healthier city in so many ways.
Bland? I’ve always subscribed to the philosophy that you will see the world more as you see yourself.
June 24th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
i agree with the review. Vancouver does offer something for travellers. But its not what most people think. If you want laid back westcoast lifestyle Seattle san fran are better. Vancouver is good for hikes and being close to nature. The downtown cafe culture is good by canadian standards but lacking compared to world cities. I am glad frommers gave vancouver the smack down. but in all fairness the critique isn’t just true about vancouver but all other canadian cities. The country as a whole suffers from a huge inferiority complex and we make up for it by hyping up everything. has anyone been to the okanagan. What a joke?
June 24th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Why does anyone care either way?
If you like it, stay. If you don’t like it, move.
Everyone is so hellbent on changing everyone else’s opinion.
I suspect we’ll be seeing decals of Calvin pissing on a chosen geographic location of choice soon enough.
June 24th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
“…and I was born some time thereafter.”
IN Vancouver, too!
June 24th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Well, my MOTHER was born in Vancouver in 1918, and I was born some time thereafter. It is certainly home to me. I could care less what anyone else thinks.
June 24th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
I live in Vancovuer only because I can’t get a decent full-time wage in Whistler. So, I work in Vancouver (rent) and live in Whistler on weekends and holidays. I spend as little time in Vancouver as possible.
June 24th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Vancouver supplies E tabs to the world and consumes a lot it selff. Once you are on ectasy the world seems a bliss, hence vancouvites call their home the best place in the world
June 24th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Pretty hilarious to see all the people jumping in to defend Vancouver on Frommer’s site, just goes to show how thin-skinned people are here. The inferiority complex is probably Vancouver’s biggest problem and is the source of all the other materialistic crap that contributes to the blandness. You know why all the ESL students get sent here? Because their parents consider Vancouver to be bland enough that their kids won’t get in to too much trouble, unlike Hawaii or other US cities.
If we actually embraced our just-out-of-backwater-logging-town status instead of putting on airs, it would be vastly more tolerable.
Comparing Vancouver to an 800 year old city that has the Rijksmuseum, canals, incredible music, culture, food, art, history, architecture, etc etc etc is ludicrous.
June 24th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Maestro:
Oh the irony…
June 24th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
#5 Speaking of Amsterdam…
Dave,
Just out of curiosity, are you really that much stupid or just keep pretending of being stupid?
June 24th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Vancouver BC:
Pretty impressed with itself for a city made out of paper mache.
(guess I won’t be needing those sunglasses with this weather)
June 24th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Family. That is the reason a lot of us are here. I grew up here and with a little one on the way, I’d rather have my family close to me than affordable real estate, though of course both would be lovely.
I have to say that the report is pretty consistent with what I have heard from many visitors to our town. Having worked in a gastown tourist trap restaurant throughout my whole undergrad, I met a lot of people from all over the world, and many if not most were dissapointed. They could not believe that a city with so many nice areas also had such a huge amount of open poverty and drugs. I consistently had to explain that although Vancouver likes to think it is uber hip and cosmopolitan, it is actually the asshole of Canada where the rest of the country shits out it’s worst members of society. And while those members of society may be an eyesore, and kinda rough, they are still ten times easier to be around than those that subscribe to our image as “hollywood north”. Sad.
June 24th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Bubble Lad:
Agree, i was surprised with the derision i received whenever i spoke disparagingly about vancouver. well, i suppose i got negativity back for my negativity. Strange response from typically good humoured friends though.
June 24th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Whistler yes. Nanaimo – no way in hell.
And AMS rocks. Spend a few months there every year (and no, not for the weed), and absolutely love the place.
But Vancouver is ok, compared to a number of other places I’ve lived (parts of Europe, Australasia).
June 24th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
I think the review is spot on. There’s nothing wrong with Vancouver per se – it’s just the endless pumping and baseless hype that sets your teeth on edge. It’s a quaint little backwater and once the RE bubble pops it will probably be a funky little “city” once again (or at least as close as you can get to city without any discernible culture, industry, diversity, public transit or nightlife).
In the meantime I’ve never been in any place that has so little sense of humour about itself – anything other than salivating praise of every aspect of the city is greeted with either stony silence, or outright hostility. This city just takes itself WAY too seriously (maybe a symptom of a deep-seated, though repressed knowledge of how little Vancouver has to offer, and how poorly it stacks up against a real city).
I’ve also never been in a place where the citizens have absolutely no sense of curiosity about their own city – everyone travels around in a little car-powered bubble of ignorance (which is why all the propaganda tends to go uncorrected).
Also, Vancouver being such a small place (under a million in the city itself) people tend to have run in the same tiny social circle all their lives – usually since high school or earlier – so are never faced with anything resembling a contrary opinion about themselves of their city.
It (used to be)an adorable, provincial little burgh that has been systematically pimped out by Real Estate developers, advertising and PR trolls.
June 24th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Dave: “I don’t think Vancouver has to worry about image very much. It already has a strong reputation as being a great city and I think that will grow after the Olympics.”
I live here, why would i care about image? Image, as the word says, is just an ‘image’… I care about reality not what other people think after being exposed Vancouver propaganda.
Whether “that[image] will grow after the Olympics” or not, i couldn’t care less, it just doesn’t help me as an individual if Vancouver’s image is great- yet I’m paying taxes to fund this gong show…
I want the Vancouver to be good, not it’s image…all the good image does is drive up real estate prices for no good reasons. It’s not that we have jobs to support the fantasy prices.
June 24th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
you’re a real Vancouverite if…
- you truly believes Vancouver is the best place to stay
- you never really hold back on spreading the word on how great you are and how much you ‘own’
- you think you’re entitled to a lot… for no good reason
- culture is not part of your vocabulary… who needs it anyways
The total absence of any kind of culture does not bother you.
- you’re not the cosmopolitan type
June 24th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
The “Best Place on Earth” license plate is straight out arrogant, I’d never put it on my car…embarrassing.
Dave has never been to Amsterdam, clearly. Sorry buddy, but you can’t even compare the two cities, especially not when talking about bland vs. non bland cities. Amsterdam – bland? I don’t think so. You should have taken the trip to learn a bit more about European cities.
June 24th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Most Asians don’t make income here in Vancouver, they are just here to visit, study and spend. That is what Vancouver condo price is soo high. Looking just at the local income level sometimes can be misleading. To me Vancouver is really not the best city on earth but its not the worst either. 3.5/5 compare to Tokyo or Hong Kong.
June 24th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200.....ng_teranet
Canada resale home prices fall in April: survey
“On the whole, the report offers a sobering assessment on the state of the Canadian housing market as it suggests that the correction in home prices has continued unabated, and is in fact accelerating,” said Millan Mulraine, economics strategist at TD Securities, in a note.
Mulraine pointed out, however, that the Teranet-National data is at odds with some other statistics such as the Canadian Real Estate Association’s latest figures.
I think Canadian Real Estate Association “figures” should carry a disclaimer
June 24th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Dave: I’ve seen this ‘reputation will grow’ after the Olympics argument so many times, but never seen any proof.
Can you tell me how your attitude changed towards previous host cities after the games? Did you get the urge to move to any of them or go there on vacation?
I’ve seen plenty of stories about the debt that host cities have to deal with after the fact, but not much about any actual concrete positive effects for the city at large. Can you educate me on this?
June 24th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
I love it here but when tourists ask me what they should do I am kind of at a loss for words..
Robson Street? Frankly there is better shopping in Europe. The shops in downtown Vancouver are identical to those found throughout North America. There are some funky clothing shops near Gas Town but if tourists wander into the DTES.. they may never be heard from again
Kits? West fourth? Nice places but not for tourists. Gravity Pope is an exceptional shoe shop but the brands are available elsewhere.
Granville Street? Drunken punch ups are a dime a dozen..
Beaches ? We pour raw sewage into the ocean. Enough said.
The Aquarium is nice, Stanley Park I suppose.
I think it is the skiing, climbing, Grouse Grind, mountain biking and paddling that makes Vancouver stand out.
Whistler, Squamish and Tofino is where I would send tourists. Victoria bores me to death (sorry).
I think what Vancouver needs is a grand walking street replacing all of Robson and Granville, a world class Native Art Museum on the Coal Harbour shore.. NBA Basketball, an NFL team (yeah right).. perhaps more urban biking trails along the water. Euros love biking. We could replace Italy/France with more bike routes like Kettle Valley..
June 24th, 2009 at 11:57 am
I live here for work and the environment. For friends as well, though many have moved away in the last couple of years, and when I go visit them I can see why. I’m starting a family and I can’t see us living here long-term due to the low quality overpriced housing.
There are so many other places on the west coast I can find the same (or better) environment, so that pretty much leaves my work as the only thing that keeps me in town.
June 24th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Vancouver’ not a bad city, but it is completely overrated. It has one of the nicest winter climates in Canada. I think when taxes go up to pay for the Olympics it will be “not worth it” to live here.
June 24th, 2009 at 11:25 am
Problem with vancouver is that not only there is nothing of interest in itself, but there is nothing in the vicinity as well to get some inspiration.. you have not much of interest in a 2000 miles perimeter.. myabe you need to go to La, New York or Montreal for some decent stuff wheras Amsterdam is part of action in establishing life style trends. Vancouver is pretty much unknown city to outside world once you live a 500 miles perimeter, believe me. You need to definitly come visit here, you will think differently afterwards…
June 24th, 2009 at 11:24 am
I agree that Vancouver is over-rated by people who live here, but that goes for every other city I’ve ever lived in: Montreal, Paris, Whitehorse — yup, even Yukoners think they are living in the best-kept secret in Canada; they may have a point. A lot of this is just self-serving justification for the place you are living.
I do agree however that Vancouver is over-hyped. And if I am ever forced to upgrade to one of those new “Best Place on Earth” license plates, I will seriously consider defacing it. Maybe I’ll just put a sticker over that section that says “most pretentious slogan on earth”.
June 24th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Vancouver’s ok. I’m here because of family, which I think applies to a lot of people. I really can’t think of what makes it so great compared to many other cities (lots of cities have mountains, ocean/water and a lot less rain), I think a lot of people secretly wish it weren’t so expensive, but tell the world “it’s the best place on earth!” to make themselves feel better about spending $900k on a crack shack.
June 24th, 2009 at 11:03 am
visitor:
Speaking of Amsterdam, I have heard a lot of people say it is a bland and boring city. I haven’t been myself, and was actually just offered a free trip next month, but I took a pass. Maybe next year.
June 24th, 2009 at 10:58 am
this guy is spot on. Not only is Vancouver a dull city but vancouverites are convinced and arrogant by the self serving propoganda that vancouver is the best city to live in the world. Every time I am here I listen to this soviet style propoganda. Best cilty, best real estate, best culture, best you name it. What a bunch of ….
) but it will take time.
Yes, vancouver is known to be the Columbia of the North by the Economist http://tinyurl.com/krn66k
All in vancouver is about showing off, there is no genuine lifestyle in this city.
There can not be cultural development or great nightlife in any city where alcohol distribution is controled by the state through sin taxes and liquor licences.
There cannot be great lifestyle in a city where more than 60% of the income goes toward paying morgage.
And Olympics will be a non event, for those hoping to get the city upgraded in the international scale.
Vancouver is still much closer to a big lumber town than a cosmopolitan modern city, time for a reality check wetcouverites!!
with love from amsterdam
PS: Some culture semblance could develop eventually in this city if the BC goverment decides to legalise the BC bud
June 24th, 2009 at 10:52 am
It all depends when you visit. Hit the rain season, and this place looks pretty bland and depressing …
June 24th, 2009 at 10:47 am
That’s only one opinion and I don’t think his review is very consistent with the majority of visitors to our city.
Visiting a place is also a lot different than living there. For example, lots of people love to visit London but I know a number of people who have lived there and wouldn’t stay for longer than a couple years. I think Vancouver is better place to live than it is to visit.
I don’t think Vancouver has to worry about image very much. It already has a strong reputation as being a great city and I think that will grow after the Olympics.
June 24th, 2009 at 10:35 am
lol, so true.