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June 27th, 2009 at 11:43 am
PS. I constantly hear about vancouver having a “high cost of living”. Can this be proven? Yes, it’s expensive to buy a house. But food, rent, and everything else? I cohabit and we live comfortably on a joint income of around $75,000 a year. Sure, I’ll never buy a house on that income, which is why I read blogs like this to keep an eye on when prices will come own to normal levels, but I’m not bothered if I have to rent forever.
My cost of living here when compared to Toronto is considerably less – I had to spend a fortune on heating in winter and air con in summer while in TO. I earned around 20% more income there but spent a lot more time cooped up indoors or scurrying around through underground malls and subways to keep cool/warm depending on the season. TO does have nicer pubs and more museums though.
June 27th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Vancouver only gets knocked because it appears at the top of certain surveys. I love the place but then I love the outdoors and that’s what Vancouver gives you access to – more than any city I know of. As for culture, there is plenty in Vancouver. If you like live music, there are a couple of great venues. There are various Arts festivals throughout the year. If you like watching sport – for hockey there’s the Canucks and the Giants. The Nat Bailey Stadium is my favourite baseball venue in Canada. Vancouver has an MLS soccer team for 2011 to provide more options. If you like playing sport, there’s an enormous amount of choice – by far and away the most activities in Canada, particularly as you can do them year round. To compare Vancouver with Portland, Seattle and San Fran doesn’t make sense. They are four completely different cities.
As for being diverse – Vancouver is, along with Toronto – one of the most diverse cities in the world. That comments about “we have some Chinese people as well as the Anglo-Canadians” was incredibly purile and totally inaccurate. I suspect the writer spent one day in the city and went to Chinatown for his “diverse” experience. The food choice you get here is simply amazing – and it’s half the price of, say, Europe. My favourite vancouver thing? The farmers markets. I’m not a cheerleader for the city – I just think people have a go at it because it’s up there in surveys to be shot down, and that’s what people like to do. If Vancouver finished mid table, no-one would comment on the place.
As for the “Best in the world” license plate thing – that’s for BC not Vancouver. And it’s called marketing. New Zealand calls itself Gods Own Country. There are many other examples.
The only bad thing about vancouver for me is the very poor nightlife, but then I’ve grown out of clubbing and pubbing and there are plenty of quiet pubs for drinks with friends. The thing about Vancouver that people forget is – it’s only 100 or so years old. A mere toddler when compared with other cities.
June 26th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
meh, sydney ain’t that hot. nice place, but full of australians!
kidding aside, it’s a great city, but it too has it’s problems – like the horrific commute many have to put up with to find somewhere affordable to live – a bit like Van in that regard. beaches are nice tho, but the skiing sucks. 
June 26th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
Agree 100% with Rebootme, lived in Sydney as well for a couple of years, unreal city! But did run into some folks that pumped the same BS best place on earth as here, but no where to the same extent.
June 26th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
Totally agree that Vancouver is bland, bland, bland! I’ve lived in Vancouver and Sydney, Australia, which has often been compared to Vancouver. Of the two, Sydney’s harbour, beaches, culture, cosmopolitan atmosphere, people, lifestyle, etc. makes Vancouver a cruddy little backwater town. Vancouverites are so delusionial about their city that they need to keep repeating to themselves “best place on earth to live, best place on earth to live” to filter out reality. The people living in Sydney didn’t need to do this.
Vancourites get real… Vancouver is a hovel!
June 26th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Arwen, if you check the downtownsuites listing there is or was one for Harbour Green 3.
Prompton also has one for cheaper ($5k)but the downtownsuites one was more candid.
It said something along the lines of “with $1 million down and the best interest rate this suite would cost $20,000 per month. Available for rent at $5,950″
June 26th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
Yes, I think rents will actually come down, Anon, especially on the low end as stuff jostles around in the higher end. The higher end rents seem priced pretty well, but the low end is evaporating; you can get housed quite nicely for $2000-, but that’s quite a bit out of the range of low-income families. And there are more and more low income families.
I live in the West End right now, and there used to be the standby “discount” buildings; the ones a little bit ramshackle but with a lot of character. No elevators, sporadic upkeep, maybe a bit of a musty smell, and kitchens from the 1940s. They’re disappearing, the low end; and although I don’t know other areas very well, I’m having a hard time finding the equivalents elsewhere. (Shabby chic, mind you, not crack-houses – the bohemian low end for starving artists.)
Anyway, the Kenilworth still sails bravely on, as does Holly Court, so it’s still here a bit.
Just not easy to find.
June 26th, 2009 at 11:33 am
#92 Arwen
Suites in 5-10 year old buildings in yaletown that were going for $1500+ and had multiple applicants are now vacant for over a month @$1300. They will have to come down more because
680 sq ft brand new units on the 28th floor of TV Towers are going for $1390 @prompton.
That’s a brand new minimum of $420k+ GST and PPT unit for $1390!
The GST will take two years to three years (once you subtract strata fees) of rent to pay off!
In two years it’ll be a two year old condo and the rent won’t ever increase it’ll actually decrease as the rent stays the same and inflation comes into play.
June 26th, 2009 at 10:44 am
I am currently looking to rent a new place here, so I’m spending a fair amount of time looking at listings. I have also been tracking, for comparison, in Toronto ( I used to live there so I know the area.)
Rents seem to be suffering serious price compression, so the once cheap stuff is nearing the same price as the nicer stuff. Basements for the same price as suites, location not making much of a difference, etc.
Of course, that’s looking on Craigslist, but Craigslist Toronto seems to be showing more of a spread.
Of course, that could be an artifact of how we rent here,or the fact I’m looking, uh, five days before people generally give notice. The bottom of the barrel?
June 26th, 2009 at 6:36 am
Warren:
Only for jobs? Hate to point out we are in a recession and where one can get decent work is going to be a big decider.
June 26th, 2009 at 6:28 am
For some reason, this particular post keeps haunting me and the reality is, that yes, Vancouver is a pretty great place to live, it is just difficult not to have some sort of buyers remorse when housing (rent included) costs doubled in five years. Yes, some of us are certainly bitter, but we are also tired of working ourselves into the ground to enjoy this “laid back west coast lifestyle” we are all supposed to enjoy.
June 25th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
Chilled Says:
I know your mistress and I confess that I have been pegging her in your absence. You are absolutely correct, she is hot!!!
======================
Chilled, I did not know you are into shemales too….
June 25th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
Let’s get real. This is one cranky travel writer. If Vancouver really is an undesirable travel destination and bland city in general, this blog and the sky high real estate prices in the city wouldn’t exist.
June 25th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
parisian tourist Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 6:49 ……………………………………………………………………………….but my mistress is hot hot and I will keep coming to this lovely place, au revoir mes amis!
==================
I know your mistress and I confess that I have been pegging her in your absence. You are absolutely correct, she is hot!!!
June 25th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
I just heard some sad news on talk radio – pop star Michael Jackson was found dead
Another pedophile gone. So what’s the sad news?
June 25th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
You folks need to broaden your horizons and get out a bit more.
There is more to life in this city then admiring the mountains from a coffee shop while watching sports on the big screen.
Vancouver has some great cultural festivals. The Jazz Fest starts this weekend, for example. We have tons of world class musicians living in our midst, on par with the offerings in Amsterdam.
Robson Street? Forget about it. Come down to a street fest on Commercial Drive.
June 25th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
say no:
This is truly an ignorant statement. Refugees come from all walks of life; they are not only itinerant workers and manual labourers, but doctors, engineers, computer technicians, teachers, etc. The only characteristic that that have in common is that they fled (or were forced out of) their homeland as the result of war, famile, environmental degradation, etc. I’d suggest thinking about the old saying that it’s “better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”
June 25th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
I just heard some sad news on talk radio – pop star Michael Jackson was found dead in his Los Angeles home this morning. There weren’t any more details yet. I’m sure we’ll all miss him, even if you weren’t a fan of his work there’s no denying his contribution to popular culture. Truly an American icon.
June 25th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
I dunno, the article also mentions Venice as the “smelliest tourist trap”. I have been to Venice several times and never experienced the bad smell described by some people (who, I suspect, never visited that city). It’s also not true that “almost nobody lives there”, unless 271,000 inhabitants are nobody.
As for Vancouver, it may not be the most interesting city for a tourist (most North American cities aren’t), but it’s a good place to live (if you don’t consider the insane real estate prices).
June 25th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
As long as we keep getting refugees and immigrants from places that are still fighting malnourishment and hunger, to make up for our declining population, do not expect anything sophisticated to happen here culturally or in a gastronmic level.
We will go from bad to worse. Just keep eating boiled rice and chiken wings, it is the best delicacy you can get.
June 25th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
I think its a great place to visit however why 1/2 the people live there I don’t understand. If your part of the category of “unskilled” labour the wages are so low and cost of living so high that you basically can never get ahead.
Oh wait but you could risk everything in zero down over-leveraged real estate however that game only goes on so long. If it doesn’t fully correct this time it will next time; unfortunatly only time will tell.
I remember watching some schiller clips a while ago and he mentioned in one particular exmaple “prices wen’t up simply based on expectation because they did before.” I would argue that this sentace holds true in Vancouver.
June 25th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
What about giving away lawyers job.Aren’t they representing criminals,drug dealers etc.
June 25th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
“A Solution Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 10:30 am
If you want to make real estate more affordable, one part of the solution is to restrict foreign ownership (in conjunction with strengthening lending practices). Place restrictions on owning property around citizenship, time in country, etc. Several asian countries have imposed such restrictions, with Japan being the most notable.”
That’s one thing I totally agree with, and I’ve raised it before on this forum.
Loal real estate prices should be supported primarily by local incomes, otherwise things get totally distorted.
However, I another important part of this is cracking down on money-laundering, there is tons of drug money being laundered through the purchase of real estate in Vancouver, which creates “artificial” demand (I’m calling it artificial because it’s created by illegal income).
I have a friend who is a lawyer and he made a point that politicians at the city and provincial levels have an interest in avoiding the money-laundering issue because they want real estate prices to stay up.
June 25th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
“realpaul Says:
June 25th, 2009 at 10:49 am
But this doesn’t excuse the incessant cheerleading. Lets stop pretending, this is a sewage splashed, roach infested crack house surrounded by a flotilla of desperate suburbanites who can’t seem to rent enough personality.”
Realpaul, if you dislike Vancouver so much why do you live here? Personally I’m here for family and friends; during the summer I think it’s a beautiful city and during the winter there is great skiing at Whistler. But if most of my friends end up leaving, I would probably leave as well.
June 25th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
oneangryslav:
Oneangryslav makes a balance point. Vancouver is more of a “provincial” city and shouldn’t really be compared to NY Paris etc in terms of cultural amenities.
Although personally I’m optimistic we might be able to turns things around and improve the city alot over the next 10-20 years.
June 25th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
“visitor Says:
June 24th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Most Asians don’t make income here in Vancouver, they are just here to visit, study and spend. That is what Vancouver condo price is soo high. Looking just at the local income level sometimes can be misleading. To me Vancouver is really not the best city on earth but its not the worst either. 3.5/5 compare to Tokyo or Hong Kong.”
I agree that Vancouver is over-rated, but I’ve visited Tokyo multiple times and I lived in HK, and neither is perfect either; I would consider living in Tokyo long-term except the xenophobia of most people in Japan bothers my conscience.
Tokyo is great, excellent transit, relatively clean, polite people, great shopping, food, lots of places to travel to in Japan, etc. The work culture is terrible though unless you work for a foreign company.
HK is just as over-rated as Vancouver, but for different reasons. Other than shopping and eating (and the food there is way overrated as well in my opinion) there is very little to do. The pollution and “urban heat island” problems are brutal. And the work culture is terrible as well, again unless you work for a foreign company. I would also point out that I personally think people who grow up there suffer from both “island thinking” (they’re very narrow minded) and “post-British Empire hangover” as they look up to British schools, universities, and accents too much.
June 25th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
“When 50% of your income goes to housing, how can locals afford to go to the theater or museum?”
Pick up two part time jobs one in theater and one in museum.
June 25th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
MIND IT COMPULSORY
June 25th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
“Blandcouver”
This is Vancouver buddy not Blandcouver.
“where it often masquerades as other, more interesting cities.”
Are you judge in the court who is throwing one sided forcefull verdict on us?
“just duller”
Never give up your negativity habits,This city is not duller than your brain.
“we have some Chinese people as well as the Anglo-Canadians.”
They are everywhere in the world specially in all the cities you had mention.
“Anyone who thinks Vancouver is cosmopolitan has never been south or east of Portland. Most of Vancouver’s other attributes, meanwhile, are seen in better form in either Portland, Seattle, or San Francisco.”
So those are the areas you want vancouverites to visit or live,Are you real estate agent for those cities or you work for travel agency? Oh actually story begin from there right YUVRAJ(juraj)right there “Juraj sent in this link to a suprisingly negative travel review of Vancouver by a Frommers travel guide writer”.
Listen carefully kids Vancouver is the “BEST PLACE ON EARTH-MIND IT COPULSORY
“.
June 25th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Cosmopolitan Vancouver.
Where the lovely quality of life means you and take your child to the park and meet a beaten homeless person at the same time.
Where multitasking means doing the grocery shopping and being involved in a gang shooting.
Where job opporunity means a “budding” career in one of the two rising industies: grow crops and plastic surgery.
When 50% of your income goes to housing, how can locals afford to go to the theater or museum?
June 25th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Also, Whistler is distasteful, Victoria smells so much like scented candles it gives me a headache, and Nanaimo… well, the last time I stayed there fist fights spilled out on the street from the strip club near my hotel window almost every single night.
To my mind Vancouver stands as the cream of a fairly confused crop right now.
June 25th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
The city itself is nothing particularly special, the surrounding nature is pretty nice. Culturally, Vancouver doesn’t compete with larger centers like New York or Paris, or even Toronto for that matter. Its history as a sort of hamlet on the west coast frontier does give it its own charm, but that charm is quickly being destroyed by the whole “best place on earth” condo boom lunacy. Ironic.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Shorter realpaul (regardless of the topic/post): “Get off my lawn, you damn kids!!!”
I find realpaul’s view of Vancouver distorted, to say the least. On the other hand, I find the views of those who have to rush to defend Vancouver at every turn equally delusional.
Let’s try to get some perspective, people. Vancouver is not New York, or London, or Beijing; hell, it’s not Toronto or Philly when it comes to cultural amenities and the like. That being said, there is a lot more to do than those of the realpaul ilk claim there is (and yes, many of these things are not nature-bound either).
Anyone who has lived in a real global city is immediately aware of the level of provincialism of this burg, and I also get annoyed by things such as that radio station’s byline–”best place on earth.”
In the end, “best place on earth” is a ridiculous concept as it is so subjective. So may I ask that both the insecure “best-place-on-earthers” and the misanthropic “realpaul-types” try to adjust their views to a little bit more closely match the reality.
June 25th, 2009 at 10:59 am
The troll is strong with realpaul.
Why all of the sewage comments? That’s Victoria that sends their sewage into the ocean untreated, not the GVRD.
June 25th, 2009 at 10:49 am
The unemployment stats today show that the market is still in freefall. The growing welfare stats show that reality is starting to bite. The silver lining? Civil servant pay continues to increase while everyone else loses.
http://www.vancouversun.com/Bu.....story.html
Van shitzer is a place for immigrants and refugees from doubly bad shitholes, of which there are a few. Oh aren’t we proud that we lord over Mogadishu in bushwalking trails.
But this doesn’t excuse the incessant cheerleading. Lets stop pretending, this is a sewage splashed, roach infested crack house surrounded by a flotilla of desperate suburbanites who can’t seem to rent enough personality.
June 25th, 2009 at 10:33 am
Vancouver can be a boring city I guess if you don’t like the mountains, don’t go skiing, don’t go hiking and don’t like riding your bike or jogging on the seawall. But if you do, its pretty good when its not raining. One thing I always like about Vancouver is the lack of urban sprawling compared to other cities in North America. In Vancouver you can at least walk to alot of stuff, and if your downtown you don’t even need a car.
On the other hand, I always wonder why tourist come here, especially older tourist that aren’t into outdoors stuff. If the property values come down here by at least 50% that should bring down one of the problems here. If it rained 50% less here, that would be great too.
June 25th, 2009 at 10:30 am
If you want to make real estate more affordable, one part of the solution is to restrict foreign ownership (in conjunction with strengthening lending practices). Place restrictions on owning property around citizenship, time in country, etc. Several asian countries have imposed such restrictions, with Japan being the most notable.
June 25th, 2009 at 10:09 am
I lived in Milwaukee for years. And Milwaukee is really some ungodly boring place on earth.
Winter really sucks there, but people there have way more Summer activities than the best place on earth.
Also, beer is 50% cheaper and way more choices than here.
June 25th, 2009 at 9:28 am
The folks in Cleveland should start pushing their prices up.
Comparable size, higher wages and they have that river!
Clearly the true best place in the world is Cleveland. They have buildings, the odd office, starbucks and people don’t they?
June 25th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Vancouver shares something with every other city- its real estate was bid up by local buyers. The “everybody wants to live here” store just isn’t supported by the data- only 6% of real estate transactions in B.C. involve non-residents, and almost half of those individuals are from that distant and exotic place called Alberta.
If Vancouver is to remain the most expensive city in North America to purchase real estate in relative to incomes, it will be because those who already live here continue to believe that the current prices are justifiable. Assuming they continue to have the resources to do so. As such, the key leading indicators are employment and financing cost- everything else is just noise.
June 25th, 2009 at 9:06 am
patriotzed,
My point was that the people hating on Vancouver yet living here “only for family” or “only for jobs” are no better than those proclaiming it is the best place on earth. Both are coming at the argument from unrealistic negative and positive angles. Heinz makes good points and sums it up well. Although I would comment on the inclusive/tolerant point. It certainly needs improvement, but the racial and cultural harmony is miles ahead of many other democratic nations. It’s sad, but true.
To me this is just another example of why “the grass is always greener” is such a well used cliche.
Of course real estate is overvalued here, but rents aren’t. Start comparing rents to the other cities out there and I think you’ll see Vancouver is well worth what you get.
June 25th, 2009 at 8:45 am
I have to agree with the Frommers reviewer. Hate to say it, but
I shake my head every time I look closely at one of our license plates: a few days spent in Portland and its environs will quickly dispel the myth that Vancouver is the best place in Cascadia, let alone the world.
I’ve lived in Vancouver for almost fifteen years, and have the same love/hate relationship with the city that many do – mostly love for the two-and-a-half months of summer, mostly hate for the 6 months of Wet.
If I had more time this morning, I’d write much much more, but suffice it to say this is how I see our fair city of ours, for good and bad
-beautiful natural backdrop, close proximity to outdoor recreation and a photographer’s dream
-an improving public transportation infrastructure, even though the money could have been much better spent
-for some reason Vancouverites have a overbearing sense of entitlement and nimbyism, maybe it’s our long-inflated property values
-citizens on average could be much less insular and much more inclusive and tolerant of other cultures (and yes, that works in every direction)
-an opaque government system, both at provincial and municipal levels, which gets away with more than it should because we’re too busy buying Baby Bjorns and form-fitting, ass-sculpting yoga pants
-a propensity to believe our own press, especially that we are are one of the most livable cities when we can’t even look after the diseased and downtrodden.
that being said, we make our lipsticked-pig of a city what it is by how we act and treat one another – so go find the best that Vancouver has to offer, make the most of it
June 25th, 2009 at 8:27 am
Ulsterman, I agree with you 100%.
Inflated house pricing is rediculous, the city is fantastic
June 25th, 2009 at 8:13 am
Warren:
Clearly self-hate is alive and strong in Vancouver. I think the people who constantly hate on Vancouver and yet live here are the ones that need to do some self-examination.
What’s next? “Vancouver: love it or leave it” license plates? “You’re with Vancouver or you’re against us”? We’re already getting the message electronically, why not put it on metal?
And self-hate my ass. We hate the pretentious, greedy, tasteless, shallow people who have turned a great provincial city into a fake “world-class” city. That’s not everyone by any stretch, but they are the ones who’ve been controlling the agenda. And while we’re on the topic:
dboy:
I think Vancouver found itself unwittingly thrust on the world stage due to its incredible natural setting.
Unwittingly? Nonsense. It was a deliberate strategy of both the civic and provincial governments going back to the late 1970′s.
It’s worked pretty well so far (for those benefitting from it), but you can make a living for only so long by peddling your image. Eventually you have to do something useful. Paris Hilton will be able to live on her investment porfolio once the world gets tired of her, but we won’t.
June 25th, 2009 at 7:44 am
Clearly self-hate is alive and strong in Vancouver. I think the people who constantly hate on Vancouver and yet live here are the ones that need to do some self-examination. You only live one. If you aren’t enjoying it, move. All in all, “Lighten up Francis!”
June 25th, 2009 at 7:09 am
RealPaul, in your opinion, what city should ‘we’ strive to be?
June 25th, 2009 at 6:44 am
Ulsterman:
As one brit to another – totally agree with you. I spent alot of time in Holland and Belgium in 1980′s when I was in the armed forces – hated the places.
I think I hit the ground running when i got the chance to move here. Amazes me how everyone goes on and on about how crap it is here. I think there are more positives than negatives.
Cheers!
June 25th, 2009 at 6:39 am
I think Vancouver found itself unwittingly thrust on the world stage due to its incredible natural setting. However, it went to its head.I think the place falls short to be a true world class city.
Vancouver is a very small city by international standards – difficult to compare to London or New York etc which have at least 10 times the population. Vancouver is more comparable to Leeds or Manchester for amenities etc – what it does have is a very accessible city that is relatively crime free and clean. I have also found vancouver to be a very walkable city – lots of great walks along the water fronts.
I moved here almost 17 years ago from Miami. I have also lived in Plymouth, Portsmouth, Manchester, Glasgow and Edinburgh and Moscow.
As for living in places surrounded by old buildings etc, it becomes part of the background, very, very quickly and most typical joes don’t live in the centers anyway, and much like us, live in new builds out of the centre.
I do find the night life here very disappointing, but you have to grow up at some point. I think Vancouver is a city for grown ups.
I think vancouver has some growing up to do. I hope we get there because in my book it sure has a lot going for it. I think betamax is right, its more of a case of vancouver being given a dressing down for trying to be something that it isn’t.
I personally will take vancouver over all the other places i’ve lived. But hey, that’s just me.
June 25th, 2009 at 12:48 am
I’m just amused by the vehemency of the anti-Vancouver sentiment on this blog.
People don’t necessarily hate it, they are merely countering the tsunami of hyperbolic boosterism they experience daily.
Heard daily on FM 104.9: “Best city on earth!” — sheesh.
June 24th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
visitor:
Vancouver is still much closer to a big lumber town than a cosmopolitan modern city, time for a reality check wetcouverites!!
Well actually I would disagree. It’s not close to either.
I can remember when Vancouver really was a big lumber town – with Bay Forest Products and Sweeney Cooperage operating where BC Place and condos now stand. It had real businesses that made real things, and it also had pretty well just as much ethnic diversity as it does now – just in different proportions. Not as much sushi and Starbucks as today, but still lots of great food.
Culture – well you had pretty much the same culture as today, except the rock music was way way better, and you didn’t have Phantom of the Opera et al.
And politer people, no monster houses, no leaky condos, much less traffic, no smog (you could see the mountains), very few homeless and few breakins (really).
And houses that cost about 4x median household income.
Vancouver has become Canada’s equivalent of Miami or Las Vegas – all hype and pretention, producing nothing of real value, just a conduit for hot money.