The pre-sales pinch
Just a few years ago it seemed like the easy way to get rich was to buy a pre-sales condo in the Lower Mainland and wait for appreciation to kick in. Well, a funny thing happened on the way to the bank: property values deflated. That means that many people who bought condo units under construction in the last couple of years now owe more for their condo that it’s current market value. We’ve posted before about buyers trying to get out of their contracts and developers suing buyers.
Bat posted this link to a craigslist comment, it appears some buyers at D’Corize in Surrey are frustrated with the drop in property values and would like to ask the developer to return some of their profits:
RSS 2.0 comments feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.First of all my apologies as I did not know where else to post this info. :
The project is pretty much complete and you are probably being asked to make arrangments for financing. Financing is based on the appraised value of your suite…guess what? Appraisals are coming in well below the price you signed up for back in 2007, this means you’ve got to come up with a bigger down payment. I hear that there are alot of people that are not qualifying due to the poor real estate market, job losses and these individuals may walk away, this won’t be easy as you’ll lose your deposit and then the developer can come after you for further losses….well you’re not alone. Some individuals are approaching the developer to re-negotiate the price and in my opinion there is strength in numbers, if you know of others that have purchased these units in a presale…your friends, your family….talk to them and approach the developer as a group or have someone represent you as a group (lawyer). Where are all the realtors who said that this would be a “Great Investment”. Well they’ve all disappeared and I guess they were looking after their own best interest….. Well good luck…and if anyone else has anything to say,,,,,just post your comments.
Regards,
In the same boat as you…..
August 26th, 2009 at 8:56 am
too funny. cry me a river. next.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:01 am
Ditto. I don’t feel an ounce of sympathy for these people. What were they thinking, buying in that crummy area of Whalley? I lived near that area for years…and I knew better than to commit to buying in a place that’s rampant with homeless and drug addicts. I say, know a neighborhood before you plunk down your life savings to buy there.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:10 am
Here is another example
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.....08087.html
————–
Cosigner/Investor Needed for Self Employed Person
Have approached lending institutions and have been told I will need a cosigner on a property that I put 10% down over 2yrs ago.
Have A1 Credit Rating
Self Employed for 5mths with great earning potential
Professional Person with BBA, CSC, and Level 1 CFA
Please only serious responses. Send email with your contact details and I will respond in a prompt fashion.
——————
Line on up folks!
August 26th, 2009 at 9:33 am
I agree that the purchasers are to blame.
However, if there are enough purchasers in the same boat,the problem may become the developers. Strength in numbers. Can’t get blood out of a stone, and developer may have no choice but to renegotiate.
Not all completed units have sold out. I’ve seen some completed a year ago with unsold units, and one near completion which appears 1/2 sold out.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:42 am
Dumb and dumber.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:57 am
Garth has Vancouver realtor Ian Watt’s latest video on.
http://www.greaterfool.ca/
QUOTE:
Not quite sure who this guy is, other than an enterprising real estate agent with a dashcam in bubblicious Van.
Ten offers on a West Van condo, in a city where average prices exceed the national average by 50%. Where 70% of net income is required to carry a SFD, where leaky condos destroyed the financial lives of thousands of people, and where pre-Olympic activity just about guarantees the last ones in will be the first ones munched.
Still, I like this guy.
If you’re going to lead ‘em to slaughter, at least have panache.
And an ego. It’ll help later.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:03 am
This is the downfall of the greater fools.
They didn’t foresee that the banks may not lend to them to complete the sale if the value drops…the only solution is a bigger down payment which they never had to start.
This line is a classic:
“Where are all the realtors who said that this would be a “Great Investment”. Well they’ve all disappeared and I guess they were looking after their own best interest…..”
Pretty much sums it up.
Woe is me the first time, shame on me the next time.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:31 am
Are there really people out there that believe realtors when they say the property they’re trying to sell you is a great investment?
When I buy something I decide if the price is worth it to me, not what it’s worth to someone else. That way if the price goes up or down later it doesn’t bother me, I’ve paid what it was worth to me.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:04 am
But aren’t we in the middle of a massive spring/ summer bounce? ( dead cats anyone?) All I keep hearing from RE agents and the like is that the previous decline of 15% has been wiped out and we are basically back to peak prices. These presale people should be fine no? For some reason the numbers aren’t adding up. The place I sold last May is still 20% cheaper ( comparables) yet I read that Van RE is back up 10-12% in the last 3 months. Something isn’t smelling right in this overbloated town.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:05 am
That should read May 08…
August 26th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Funny how the developer should give up profits now. I wonder what the response would have been if the developer went back to the flippers asking for part of their profits during the height of the boom.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:13 am
This is just an idea, but I know that the Sales and Marketing Co. that sold D’Corize (Platinum projects, McDonald Realty) have changed their name and brokerage to Magnum Projects. I am curious to know if the developer notified their purchasers via an contract amendment. I am unsure that this would be a reason to nullify the contract, but it may be worth a shot. Any one else from Vibe, Crescent West, St Andrews…
August 26th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Everyone should respond to the craigslist add, and ask the proud owner, who is now underwater, whether he was prepared to share his profits with the developer had the property appreciated as promised. Nothing like privatizing the gains from RE and socializing the losses when things go sideways..
August 26th, 2009 at 11:21 am
stop the madness:
#3 this guy is a poster child for why the second mortgage sharks should be doing well, and will continue to do well. There is always money available for a price. Plenty of finance companies out there to tap.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:32 am
El nino, I disagree. Ithink we’re all responsible for our own decisions, but that’s no reason to kick someone when they’re down. We all make mistakes, and as Amanda points out, they may have a technicality to be able to get out of their contracts. Why not use all means at your disposal?
I do wonder how many people are still out there who believe that RE is the road to riches though, even with all the examples to the contrary.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:34 am
#15 – no. they gambled, and lost. time to pay the piper.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:41 am
15
If the owner had bought and sold with significant price appreciation, he would have gone around town, proclaiming himself to be a Donald Trump real estate genius. As it sounds, he gambled, and his speculation failed to yield him the investment riches he was “promised” by realtors (the sound “financial advisors” that they are – lol). As they say in the stock market, don’t invest/speculate unless you are prepared to lose all your money.
Please feel free to share your empathy towards a speculator with all the working poor and low-middle class earners, who struggle with every rising rents and cost of living because the speculative actions of a few have impacted the affordability for the many.
I, on the other hand, will remind this person that there are consequences to their actions, so that next time, maybe, just maybe, they will do their due diligence, and not contribute to an asset bubble.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:41 am
i don’t sympathize with people who gambled but the developers did just what you all propose. There were instances they increased their prices because of increased costs. And the courts agreed. I wonder if it sets a precedent for the other direction.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:45 am
#18: perhaps if the contract allowed for this – as it did in the case of “increased costs”. It is all about actually READING the contract you sign, which is perhaps hard to do if you have slept the night before in a queue on the street like the other lemmings.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:58 am
The star of Canada’s recovery: home sales
If you’re looking for a sign that Canada’s recession has ended, look no farther than the massive rebound in the housing market. It’s more than a sign; it’s a ashing neon billboard.
August 26th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
EL NINO:
Amen! I guess I am an un sympathetic bastard but let them rot. The presale madness has helped bid up RE prices to stupid levels. If they would have won, they would be running around shouting how brilliant they are.
August 26th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
#20. LOL and LOL.
Best laugh I’ve had all day.
August 26th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
This just happened to a friend of mine with a pre-sale in Surrey. He attempted to pull out after the property value decreased, but it won’t be that easy unfortunately. His real estate broker friend bought three in the same building!
August 26th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
# 9 DaMann:
Of course it doesn’t make any sense.
This person in the Craigslist ad will be the poster boy for the typical pre-sale buyer. Obviously they can’t even sell their units at cost, even though the RE pimps claim all is well and now is the time to buy.
One side is lying and the other is telling the truth.
August 26th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
List of Realtors who have been subjected to disciplinary charges. (I recognize a few names )
2009 RECBC Disciplinary Decisions
http://www.recbc.ca/complaints.....y-2009.htm
August 26th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
NO -LYMPICS:
That can’t be a entire list. It has to be a partial list of specific types of decisons or actions. When I had the displeasure of getting a real estate division dumped in my perview I had at least one arbitration a week at the real estate board ( every week) for E&O, dipshit complaints, outright idiocy and everything in between. That was a company of just over 200 sub agents. ( sales persons). So, to extrapolate the activity of the disiplinary committee which meets every day , must generate hundreds of files a year.I call bullshit on this list. The decisions were arbtrary and just plain idiotic most of the time. The majority of persons who run for board seats are generally the super wankers and high school drop outs who got a RIBC through home study and think they achieved something Bwahahahahaha.
August 26th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
new teranet monthly report out
http://www.housepriceindex.ca/Default.aspx
tiny uptick in vancouver. ski jump curve / spring bounce. doesn’t look like we returned to peak levels as claimed by some realtor friend mentioned above (in June at least). See the “communique” section for the June 2009 write up.
August 26th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
NO -LYMPICS:
It seems like alot of realtors on that reprimand list. Compare it to the BC law society reprimands some time.
Weak penalties though (those I looked at anyway), 7 day suspensions, take a course, $2000 fine or less. I wonder what it takes to get thrown out?
August 26th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Hovering:
Telling a potential client that real estate doesn’t always go up in price.
August 26th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Hovering:
Teranet is 3 months behind.
I don’t doubt that there has been a big bounce again. The idiots seem to be out in full force with cheque books in hand…erm should I say loan papers in hand. What they couldn’t afford at 5% they sure can afford at sub 3% variable rate!
What shocks me is that it’s one thing to get suckered into a cheap mortgage rate for a 5 year fixed ( close your eyes for 5 years and PRAY it hasn’t gone up a lot) but word on the street is that a lot of these idiots are buying based on the super cheap variable rate!!! Umm hello, it really has no where to go but up, what are these people thinking?!?!?!?
August 26th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Opps , #30 above was me
August 26th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Good place for the pathetic speel. I once thought USENET was the armpit of the internet until I discovered Craigslist.
August 26th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
stop the madness:
#3 “Cosigner/Investor Needed for Self Employed Person”
One would think that the Realturds would be lining up in droves.
August 26th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
# 26 realpaul
I read a few decisions.
Are you saying the decisions are bogus ?
Is it easier to take the heat than appeal ?
The decisions tend to cite violations of the legislation that realtors are beholden to.
Also, my understanding is that there are 2 bodies that can render disciplinary action to realtors.
August 26th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
“Have A1 Credit Rating
Self Employed for 5mths with great earning potential
Professional Person with BBA, CSC, and Level 1 CFA”
that “CFA” wouldn’t happen to mean “Certified Financial Adivisor”, would it?
no thanks, i’ll pass.
August 26th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
“Cosigner/Investor Needed for Self Employed Person”
Self employed = unemployed
Which is why the bank would not up the ante.
Pre-sale probably underwater in any event. Who the F would jump at this “investment opp”????
August 26th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
Apts would not lead to financial security but single house does. Van RE is solely depended on land value and Chinese power.
August 26th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
NO -LYMPICS:
The ‘penalties’ are laughable. Re-taking a section of this article or that is the worst. Fines are virtually non existent. However with revenues slowing down you will probably see more levied as a way to subsidize the fuck ups support system down at the board offices.
The two bodies are the REGVB for disputes with the public and the CREA for disputes between agencies ie ( two real whores are trying to screw one another like dogs in the street) and the like. Both exist only to spoon feed spittle and erronious pap to the public and hide the fact that realwhores are little better than crackheads who’ll rip anything they can from a gullible citizen.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
Anonymous:
#35 A, It would not be my first choice as a private investor to give money to wet shingle in a recession. Selling mutual funds (CSC) and advisory services (CFA level 1) along with a BBA- Bach of Business Administration won’t get you a bank tellers job today. Which is pretty much describing a tellers qualifcation these days.
I haven’t been in the second mortgage game for a long time but heres what I used to look for
1) recently seperated couple who have got back together after spending a huge wad during their short seperation.
2) they are both gainfully employed in a long term careers or secure jobs
3) never lend one party more than 20K
4) thats it….period.
5) that business used to pay 14 to 16 %
6) I would loan money to anyone without these qualifiers or for less money. In a falling market and during a recession there is simply too much risk.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
#6 should read ” I would not” sorry
August 26th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
Here’s a good ad for one of the “reduced” Beasley units.
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.....46626.html
“The listing price has very small room to negotiate as it is at the minimum as it can be.”
“first payment is about $11,000 due immediately”
“This listing will only stay on for a week at most and will not be available again”
“Note: this unit was originally priced at $780,000 before GST, so by the time it completes it will definitely be valued close to this amount if not higher so huge investment opportunity”
August 27th, 2009 at 12:49 am
Of course it will be worth the original peak $780,000 valuation by the time it completes, because real estate only goes up. Which is why you’re trying to hock your presale right?
“Full stainless steel appliances + laundry, ( wine cooler if requested), granite counter top in kitchen and marble in bathrooms” ahh the siren song for Vancouver poseurs
August 27th, 2009 at 7:34 am
This guy looking to be bailed out by investors or co-signer will be joined by many more speculators trying to get out from under their “investment” after the olympics.
August 27th, 2009 at 8:48 am
#42 – “wine cooler”? Jesus, the retard doesn’t even know what the thing is called, but still has one ordered on the presale.
August 27th, 2009 at 9:48 am
Vancouver is a rainy paper mill,sea port and fishing town. Those industries never have and never will be “high class”. In fact those industries are dying a fairly quick death. How the hell can such a crappy run down piece of shit town be called “world class”. And why the hell would “everyone” want to live there? Vancouver is just a bigger version of Prince George only not quite as smelly.
August 27th, 2009 at 10:17 am
I’m surprised by the headline about IOC guaranteeing to pay any olympic over runs.. I’ll do more digging. Can’t be true (can it?)
August 27th, 2009 at 10:27 am
Cash guarantee has Winter Games ‘ready to go fully operational’
http://www.theprovince.com/spo.....story.html
As I thought, a misleading headline. The article actually says that the IOC promises to cover up to $30 million in international advertising dollars which the IOC itself failed to line up after Kodak and other sponsors withdrew. So much for “covering any shortfall”. Can you imagine if the IOC was claiming it would pay Vancouver Olympic debts? What would Athens say?
On a side note, an IOC rep was asked whether they were concerned about security since that reality TV show murderer walked into Canada from the USA.
It’s a good point, the story was big in the USA as well as here. Every nut job around now knows (if they didn’t already) that Canada is pretty much free access (if you are willing to hoof it or drive a back-back-back road) (or walk over from Point Roberts apparently).
August 27th, 2009 at 10:36 am
Now is the perfect time to buy !
Campbell can’t afford a new roof for BC place AFTER promising one
Nickle and Dime cuts to all sorts of programs .
Will not allow garbage to be exported.(so we are being set up for massive tax hikes to Metro Vancouver mafia to find a solution in the next 2-3 years as Cache Creek landfill fills up)
Can’t afford its Olympic tab….needs $30 million from IOC due to sponsorship shortfall yet has spent billions on Olympic Venues.
Likely allow the ravenous Translink monster to go after us again next year.
Focus on all sorts of diddling legislation like cell phone bans while driving.
HST, etc etc.
Yep, all is well….
August 27th, 2009 at 10:41 am
doogle:
Oh, oh. Now you’ve done it! Cue realpaul in 3…2…1…
August 27th, 2009 at 11:02 am
When will the gong show on real estate end? So many fools are biting in to those stupid useless condos in Surrey. They should move to Mission or Hope. Vancouver is meant for elites, if you don’t have the cash, get the hell out of the lower mainland.
August 27th, 2009 at 11:06 am
oneangryslav2:
#49 OAS, you know I’m just telling it like it is brother. Don’t shoot the messenger:)I am certainly no ones apologist. When it’s crap, Its crap . I think this town would be far ahead by now if the optics weren’t so phonied up. Maybe people would have gotten mad and forced change( like the sewage issue)by now instead of chowing down on the ‘we’re number one’ pap that the media regurgitates.
I see that the surprise revenue drop has the government looking for a shoulder to cry on. Is this part of their plan to sell the HST? Like they didn’t have a clue that forestry revenues were going to go down three years ago when tens of thousands of mill and bush related jobs were disapearing?
http://www.vancouversun.com/bu.....story.html
I call bullshit on the ‘we’re surprised’ story. OAS, I’ll try to be more predictable in the future.
August 27th, 2009 at 11:13 am
Fed Official lets slip the ‘real’ unemployment number is 16% . truth cause quite a stir. Are we in Canada still runing the ‘Factor of 10′ economic alignment with the US? If so, then the problem here is much greater than our brave leaders are letting on. Would the government lie on purpose? Reading the bullshit coming out of Victoria lately certainly puts a cap in the ass of that argument,
http://www.breitbart.com/artic....._article=1
August 27th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Quote from Garth
“Tale of two Cities”
WINDSOR
As for the usual sources of impartial market wisdom, picture this: The hardest-hit manufacturing city in the country, where 15% of the workforce is out of work, where front lawn ‘for sale’ signs outnumber pooch droppings, where a house can be had for less than a minivan, and mere miles away sits the sad and crumbling hulk of a once-great American city, half its population fled.
Re VANCOUVER
” And in some markets, like Vancouver, bubblification does not begin to describe what’s going on, as what’s essentially a small regional city drifts into a price range reserved for places that actually seem to matter. While I love Van and almost all of BC, there is no better example in North America right now of what local delusion (and a dashboard cam) can do to the commodity of housing. ”
========
re HST…
Perhaps Campbell and Co. are using reverse psychology.
The issue is not that certain sectors will gain via the HST, create more jobs with the tax savings etc. blah blah.
Instead, it’s perhaps an acknowledgement/projection that these sectors will continue to decline, Campbell and the Feds anticipates this revenue shortfall , and has to seek a new revenue source and set it in motion. What was a soft sell is actually no choice. Back to the pockets of the taxpayer.
In other words,they don’t want to admit things are circling the bowl in a death spiral.
A discussion on The Tyee notes that people with a proper Tax No. don’t pay PST on items for re-sale. Harmonization is a red herring to the rot and denial that lays beneath.
August 27th, 2009 at 11:44 am
From Vancouver Sun article realpaul posted :
The forest industry normally contributes $2 billion a year to revenues. After costs of running the ministry of forests are deducted, the net contribution is $1 billion. This year, the net contribution is likely to be zero, despite a $100-million cut expected in ministry operations.
So:
—-Forestry Sector noramlly contributes $2 Billion
—-The costs of running the forestry ministry (aka the BUREAUCRACY ) are $1 Billion..
—That leave $1 Billion for the rest of us.
—This year, the net contribution will be zero, but the Foresry ministry will only cut $100 million.
Conclusion:
The Forestry industry is now dedicated to paying the salaries of the Bureaucrats and keeping them employed. There is nothing left over for the rest of us.
Campbell and Local Gov’ts have appeased the Civil Service to buy labour peace through 2010. Wage increases in a time of rising unemployment and increasingly restless taxpayers.
Warning signs already out for post 2010. Cutting FAT in the Gov’t would only add to the Unemployment numbers, right Gordo ?
I recall an old quote, by one who worked for Gov’t, that
Gov’t could get by with 1/2 the money it currently does, in general, it’s inherently a black hole as far as efficiency.
August 27th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
realpaul: Realpaul, it was just a little bit of good-natured teasing. That quote was like waving a red cape in front of a bull; you know that a response is inevitable.
August 27th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
At the time of purchase my (buying) realtor and selling realtor did not disclose the presence of oil tank with contaminated soil on the property. Both realtors are from the same agency. RE agency and realtors refuse to negotiate the damages from the clean up.
Any suggestions, comments?
August 27th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Word is REMY in Richmond went from being a concrete building to wood-frame with concrete between floors. They’ve also reduced the prices (by a small amount, less than 5% I believe) to pre-sale buyers. I think they’re trying to rush this thing out there before HST kicks in.
August 27th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
# 56
Here is a link with a disclosure form:
http://www.canadabestbuys.com/.....losure.pdf
Refer to line 1.G re: Oil Tanks
Also:
http://vancouver4homes.com/faq.htm#5
Point (5) discusses this.
Not any expert, but it appears that its based on seller’s admission of knowing….unless a “subject to” of the sale was no oil tanks are present.
If the person was still using the tank(ie oil furnace), then
they can’t BS way out of it. If the house was retro-fitted to gas , check the permits at City hall to determine the change over date.
Don’t mean to scare you, but the clean up of a leaking oil tank can be a hefty bill.
BTW: If you don’t mind my asking…. how did you find out about the tank ? I assume it was a below -ground one.
August 27th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Anonymus:
off the cuff answer: sue them. contact the realty board and complain. call the press. call their boss.
reality: they probably didn’t even know the tank was there. I have heard of owners that didn’t know these tanks were on site. How the hell would a realtor know? Isn’t your complaint actually with the seller and not the realtors? Did you get an inspection done? If not too bad so sad. Buyer beware and all that. If you did, sue the inspector.
I once overheard a guy at a party who had bought two houses with bad tanks in the ground over the years. The first time he paid to have it dug up properly and the soil reclaimed and the place inspected etc.. at great cost. The second time he hired a guy with a backhoe to rip it out, fill the hole with fresh soil and cart the tank off somewhere (much cheaper).
I’m not saying which approach you should follow…
August 27th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
#57 John:
Re REMY
Googling REMY…it is located on Cambie Road Richmond.
City of Richmond plans on building a Fire Hall just East of it.
As well, a large church/temple is planned near the Fire hall.
That block is right under the YVR Flight path.
YVR was a bit pissed when the City changed the OCP and allowed multi family residential development there.
If not mistaken read the fine print of any projects sold in that area re Airport noise….ie you waive your rights.
IMHO….The City opened that area up because developers were getting desperate for large chunks of land to build low rise condos/apartments. Doesn’t mean its in the buyers best interests. The whole area is run down , may take years to fully develop.
I’d avoid that area like the plague.ie bounded Alderbridge, Garden City ,Cambie, #4RD .
Otherwise, have a good sleep !
August 27th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
$474900 / 6br – BONU$ $10,000.00 FINDER FEE to ANYONE including REALTORS!!!! (SURREY / GREEN TIMBERS AREA)
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.....63973.html
This seller claims they have a listing realtor. However, they claim that if they call the owner directly the fee will not have to be split. My understanding is they will have to a pay a commission fee to the realtor if it is listed, no matter who finds the buyer (unless the listing agreement allows otherwise).
August 27th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
NO -LYMPICS:
thanks.
Clean up is done and yes it is hefty bill. Insurance covered some part but not BEFORE i hired a lawyer. You would not believe what excuses AXA was giving to the lawyer in order not to pay. But lawyer was sooo persistent that they just gave up. He was lawyer with huge experience in the environmental field and he managed to find the loophole in their policy. I have so bad after taste in my mouth after this episode with insurance company. they are all crooks.
Yes, it is bellow the ground and during the process of selling the house some prospective buyers have asked us about the tank so I had to do the oil tank search of the property. we did not have a clue that oil tank even existed on our property.
Howering says:
“How the hell would a realtor know? Isn’t your complaint actually with the seller and not the realtors?”
The issue is not about the realtors knowledge about the oil tank existence on the property but about truthfully filling the disclosure statement that is the part of Sales agreement. Realtor is required by the law to answer the question about oil tank in the disclosure statement. Failing to do so represents a breach of law. in my case even more because of dual agency agreement since both (buying) and selling agents are from the same office. Off-course previous owner is liable as well.
Hovering says:”Did you get an inspection done?”
Regular house inspection does not include a search for oil tank.
Hovering says: “sue them.”
yes you are right. I will do that. the question is should i go with Supreme court or small claim court? It cost money to go Supreme court route. Small claims are also limited at 25k of the amount that you can recover.
I don’t want to spent more money then i need.
Anybody with any similar experience that went to the Supreme or small claim court?
You second example is not advisable because you are still liable for contamination even if you sell property to someone else in the future.
August 27th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
NO -LYMPICS:
#60 NO, you’re right on the money today.
#55 OAS, I can take the heat, no problemo. The Prince George analogy was a pretty good intro though. I thought of that line in one of the Batman movies ” This town needs an enema” for Vanc-denial. Geezus, is there some kind of swamp gas in the air. There are articles written about how huge the bubble is in Vancouver with nary an effect on the “Luft Menschen”. The higher these people get the longer the rehab. Its quite the silly party.
I can’t help using Warren Buffett as an example. he Held out and held through the tech boom and the after math saying that it just didn’t make sense to him. he held out unti he gave in and started buying buying in the 2007 run up to the peak. He did what most lemmings do, wait until the peak and jump in. His fund lost 40% last year, thats billions and billions.
The market head faked Warren, one of the smartest guy in class. It is obviously confounding the experts again. What is happening has no basis in reality. Is it our herd instinct that draws the majority into the big plunge before the end. can we not resist due to biological reasons or something?
I call bullshit on this market and I’m staying out. It is a house of cards. I’ll bet Warren wishes he had listened to his accountants instead of falling for the tidal wave of hype. Right now the smart money is on staying out. Thats good enough for me.
August 27th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
B of C Mark Carney
http://www.theglobeandmail.com.....le1264733/
QUOTE:
The most important test of the new governor came from the asset-backed commercial paper market, which had become paralyzed in the summer of 2007 as the subprime mortgage industry began to unravel. Carney brokered a series of détentes that helped prevent what could easily have become a Made in Canada financial calamity. The save earned Carney wide credit, both in Ottawa and on Bay Street. But it didn’t come without a struggle.
Just weeks after he took over, a rescue plan was coming unglued. Toronto-Dominion Bank, the only one of Canada’s six largest banks that hadn’t actually sold the paper, was balking at Ottawa’s request to commit money toward a restructuring of the market. TD chief executive Ed Clark was adamant that his bank shouldn’t have to share the pain.
TD’s refusal created a serious problem. Sources say that RBC’s Nixon told Carney that his bank’s participation in the rescue plan was contingent upon all of the other banks making loan commitments. After several private conversations between Carney and Clark, TD suddenly announced that it would contribute.
“It was important they were in,” says Carney, who declines to discuss the particulars of the exchanges with Clark. “It was in their best interests that all the parties stepped up to help make the restructuring work.” Clark similarly shrugs off the showdown, saying TD agreed to participate after another official involved in the restructuring—not Carney—told him they needed his help to thwart a grave risk to the financial system. “In the end, we did the right thing,” he says.
QUOTE:
It helps that Carney is incredibly well-connected—not just through Goldman’s powerful alumni network but also because of his time as a G7 deputy. He has a close relationship with U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, and sources in Ottawa say Carney was instrumental in forging a consensus with the U.S., France and the U.K. for the emergency co-ordinated interest rate cut last fall. He played a key role in tempering hostilities at the G7 meeting shortly after—a weekend Flaherty called the “most dramatic” in his career. (Carney won’t discuss particulars, but does insist that “there is nothing that happened at the Fed in this crisis for the past two years that we didn’t have advance warning of.”) He is also capable of picking up the phone and calling Timothy Geithner, the head of the U.S. Treasury—access that few, if any, of his rivals for the job could have hoped to match.
================
August 27th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
NO -LYMPICS:
#61 NO , The biggest problem with living in the Guildford-GreenTimbers-Fleetwood Triangle is that its a freaking war zone of crack heads and every manner of scum you can imagine. This was the area a developer was paying BCTV to rename ‘The Diamond Triangle” in ads last year until they were laughed off the air.
Great place to raise kids…………..NOT !!!!!! Old folks aren’t strong enough to defend themselves. Anyone who need a mortgage that bad should just shoot themselves because thats what they’re doing to themselves and their family anyway. I mean , what do you say to your wife and kids. ” Hold your nose, We’re going in !!!!!!!”
The bonus should be $50,000 to find someone that stupid or fresh off the boat. I’ve talked to new Canadians who initially moved to places like Delta, Sewery, Coquitlam etc, and after they found out what they’d done they fled in horror. The schools are little more than reformatories, you’ve got crackheads cutting through the screens and banging on the glass at night checking for alarms and defenses. You’ve got gunfire every night and cop chases through the streets. Its a freakshow anywhere east of the fraser. I really think that the whole area should be walled off and carpet bombed with pesticide.
August 27th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
#62, How many years ago did you buy the property? Keep in mind the owners could be dead or long gone overseas or not have any money. I’m no lawyer, but have to wonder if its worth it.
August 27th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
I meant “previous owners”
August 27th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
realpaul:
It’s simply an example of another goofy Craiglist ad.
Someone should do a thesis on people who “emote” too much on Craigslist, its like ” psychological flashing “.
If they can’t sell their house in this hot market, its either overpriced, a shithole which the photos don’t show, or the neighbourhood is BAAAD !
August 27th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
No Longer Looking Says:
Sure that is possible. That’s why i have targeted Insurance and realtors first.
You can always sue previous owners in the small claim court and the cost is $156. Negligible.
August 27th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
56 Anonymus :
Re Oil Tanks
If you don’t mind my asking again…
Did you sell an existing home that had a ” subject – to ” from the purchasers that ,you ,the seller, had to conclusively identify the existence of an oil tank ? Did you then have to hire an expert to find it ?
In my experience, Oil heating was popular for homes built up until the 1950′s. Below ground oil tanks often have a small pipe about 6 – 8 inches long above ground with a screw cap on it.
Often these tanks are found in the demolition process ie a new house built on the site. Inside the house there can be evidence of previous oil heating as well.
Next time….I would suggest a records search at the given City Hall….look up all building permits, should identify this.
If the owner is liable, then ALL previous owners would need to disclose up to the point such rules of disclosure came into effect. Legally messy. I recall a story out of North Van where the new owner was on the hook for approx. $100,000 due to an old leaky tank.
August 27th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
Backyard nightmare: Leaking oil tank costs $160,000 to clean up
A North Shore woman is suing the former owners of a home in West Vancouver after she shelled out more than $160,000 to remove 5,000 litres of contaminated fuel from a leaky home-heating oil tank buried in her backyard.
http://www.canada.com/theprovi.....d6f34a817c
August 27th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
If you know anyone who wants to buy cheap in a rough area of Surrey, have them watch this 10 minute video (the last half is the best):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUkMfoe_Rd8
August 27th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
I saw Bill Good Jr. and the CTV gang on the 6 o’clock News pumpin’ the local RE market once again.
Of course, Cameron Muir was trotted out. He said that consumers are feeling “confident”.
My, how they forget the small respite we had last fall.
Cheap money, anyone?
These people should be ashamed of themselves, but, they AREN”T.
August 27th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Boombust:
#73 BB The cheerleaders have got their pom poms out latley thats for sure. I saw Micheal Campbell on Global spouting the same nonsense. This guy is supposed to be an economist, what a lick spittle whore.
There is nothing about the fundamentals of the Canadian economy which justifies calls for an ending of the recession. I think these cocktail swilling pretend plutocrats have taken it upon themselves to ‘force ‘ change upon the masses by selling ‘good’ stories instead of ‘real’ news.
The Premier has authorised spending like a drunken tourist after visiting the weatherman and now the provincial wallet is empty, So what does a drunk do? Well he breaks out his credit card naturally. To hell with kids, the parents surgeries, the wifes education. A drunk like Campbell operates in a very confined state of mind, an inability to plan a move past the end of his dick. His father was a drunk and thats how campbell learned to function. All party, no pants. And who’s going to have to pay the proverbial fireman to put out the fire? Does the drunk have to dig into his own account to pay for the carnage or his own healthcare? Of course not, drunks don’t think about other peoples problems. We ahve a multi generational drunk at the helm. Did we expect any other outcome? ReallY?
August 27th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
I hired certified inspector that searched for oil tank. It was no big deal, took 1/2 hour and cost is $500. That Oil tank inspection is not required by either bank and is not part of home inspection so at the time of my purchase of the house I did not do it because disclosure statement stated that oil tank does not exist.
When i decided to sell the house I decided to hire inspectors because few prospective buyers asked for Certificate that Oil Tank is removed. So once i found out about tank I had to dig it up and since soil was contaminated Inspectors have to inform the City right away. As owner you obligation as good citizen under the Environmental Act to clean it up right away.
Yes, practically ALL previous owners are liable but most of them would be dead or difficult to track down. So the best chance is to recover damage is from the previous owner.
August 27th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
No Longer Looking:
#72 NLK, thats Surrey alright. What was scarier? The people inside the crackhouse or the ones out in the street? You couldn’t give me a house for free if it meant living in that shithole.
August 27th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
I think Vancouver is really the best place on earth. I’ve traveled the globe and I’ve determined that there is truly no place like Vancouver. And so I’ve decided to buy a $700,000 3 bed 2 bath fixer upper on the east side for my family. It will only take 35 years to pay it off and will be worth every penny. Thanks for listening to my story.
August 27th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
“I saw Micheal Campbell on Global spouting the same nonsense.”
Yeah, I saw that idiot on the 5 o’clock Global News. Furrowed brow, pursed lips…he makes me wanna puke.
August 27th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
realpaul,
There ARE nice areas of Surrey, y’know. Just as the DTES of Vancouver doesn’t represent all of Vancouver, the Whalley area doesn’t represent all of Surrey.
South Surrey, Cloverdale, Clayton Heights, Fraser Heights, Guildford, Ocean Park…
August 27th, 2009 at 8:24 pm
76 X realpaul Says:
August 27th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
No Longer Looking:
#72 NLK, that’s Surrey alright. What was scarier? The people inside the crackhouse or the ones out in the street?
================
Too funny.
The neighbours fit just about every stereotype of Surrey.
BTW: No Longer Looking …. thanks for the Video.
August 27th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
You’re welcome, but I have even more fun info. That squatter house is long gone (the footage is from 2001) and a new house is on the lot.
Check what its selling for
http://bchousefinder.com/prope.....11159.html
note: you can see the house address in the footage
August 27th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
Robber Poops in Yard – Surrey BC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7otxZsdleBg
(At least he didn’t shit in the house)
August 27th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
I have a feeling that this website is made for only middle class or low income bums who can’t afford a house.
Most of the people on this board is obviously out of sync with reality. The negativity is beyond ridiculous. Each positive comment gets shot down like a dead dog.
Check this out:
http://www.google.com/finance?q=td.to
TD hit another 52 week high. So did royal bank. What part of that don’t some of you understand? If there will be a crash coming, stocks wouldn’t be touching 52 week highs. US housing is also improving. Good luck boys and girls. Get ready for your 200 square feet living space when more people get rich in Vancouver renting to poor bums.
August 27th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
supra (ignoring the fact u are a troll) –
no one gets rich renting to people in Van unless they bought a long time ago – as rentals are so comparatively cheap (comparative with RE prices).
August 27th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
Supraboy:
What don’t you understand ?
Banks almost always make money on the spread , they tend to make record profits when times are bad for the rest of us.
Apparently they have been in the markets as well, driving that bogus crap
The CMHC will back them up when their mortgages go South.
Legalized theft.
PS stop your “bum” fetish.
August 27th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
You’re right, nobody gets rich renting in Vancouver. But we do get rich from buying and flipping the houses. For example, buy in the Winter, unload in the summer. This is the easiest way I’ve ever made money and I will continue to play this game with my spare change.
August 27th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
Great little tidbit in the Sun today.
http://www.vancouversun.com/Ho.....story.html
August 27th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
#87, nice article, there’s another millionaire just like that. People like the old man can afford to fork up rent, and there are people with millions to take over the old man’s house, poor man will regret it when his house rockets to 3 million and he’ll be renting for 8000 a month next year.
August 27th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
Boombust:
#79 BB, C’mon ‘Clayton Heights’, Jesus man what are you smoking. ‘ Guildford’ , ‘ Fraser Heights ‘, ‘ Cloverdale’??????? Why have you left out Newtons ‘Chimney Heights’ and North Delta ‘Brown Town?’
You don’t choose to live in those places, you are forced to move there because you can’t afford anywhere else. Hermano, 4000 sq ft of sewer front is still living in a sewer. If I wanted to live like a refugee in the country I grew up in though, thats exactly where I’d go to slide right down to the very bottom of the barrel.
The people who try to fool themselves into moving ‘Morgan Creek’ etc are really just saying ” I’m a pretentious asshole who can’t really afford to live anywhere else’. Do they really think they’re fooling anyone? But ‘Clayton Heights’ …. with all those buck toothed yahoos and the yard fulls of squealing piglets, yapping fatties and secret gay boy husbands in their pick up trucks bald heads and cheesy goatees are not my cup of tea. Not in this life time amigo!!!!!!
I had a chum in the recording biz who was living downtown in a place that had a view of the gay stroll, where the young boys ply their wares. I went over there one day at his insistence because he said there was a zoo that I had to see for myself to believe. At about 5:30 we went out on the balcony and watched pick up truck after pick up truck picking up the gay boys on the stroll.
The guys in the trucks were all obviously husbands and fathers from Surrey. You could see they had kids toys and lawn equipment etcetera in the back while they hustled off into the lanes to get thier freak on with some goofy hooker boy. Sheeeeesh ! These are the same bald, stupid goateed dipshits that you see out in the neighbourhoods of Clayton Heights, Cloverdale, Fraser Heights Morgan Heights etc as you’ve mentioned. The reason you know these bozo’s are from Surrey and the Valley is that no one else drives pick ups in that number. People that live in the city don’t generally buy pick ups, thats a ‘dip shit in the valley’ thing. Thats another one of the many reasons I would not want to live in ‘The Sewer’. The people are such scum. Why they need a little boy and a pick up truck is way too weird to contemplate.
Theres a reason real estate is cheaper out there in the hinterlands. Its also cheaper in Spuzzum. People out there haven’t cottoned on to secret ‘deal’!!!!!! The people in that video were exactly the type of people who infest ALL of Surrey. It is really a shithole of BIBLICAL proportions.
August 27th, 2009 at 11:55 pm
supra-retard –
how does 4k turn into 8k rent in one year when Van has rent increase control?
retard, and troll.
bad me, for rising to the bait.
August 28th, 2009 at 8:11 am
“People that live in the city don’t generally buy pick ups”
Maybe they’re “Urban Cowboys” from Yaletown?
August 28th, 2009 at 8:57 am
The old man will have to pay a big rent hike next year, to the max. Anyhow, he’s lost out. He should’ve refinanced and taken out a loan to load up another condo instead like every other rich man. Poor sucker’s going to regret renting for the rest of his old retired miserable life.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:01 am
lol, too funny. i shall now stop reading the blog for a few months again until the fall downturn begins and retards such as supra get bored and go away – or simply change their name, as usual.
have a nice end of summer folks – I’m off sailing.
August 28th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Yeay, and I’m off looking at the sailing boats from the shore being glad I dont have the moorage, repair bills, maintainance, fuel bills, tax?.. just sit on the beach with my cuppa tea and snacks watch the boats, the clouds, watch the waves and can leave any time I like, just like renting!
My sailing is only costing..$2 max.
Ok..a little cheeky.