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November 8th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
“No, the logical extension of my argument is that everyone who KNOWINGLY and INTENTIONALLY puts themself in a higher _risk_ category should pay more. Your extrapolation is an illogical jump from apples to oranges.”
no it’s not a logical extension of your argument. it WAS your argument. you want the line drawn there other people want the line drawn elsewhere. and how do you prove a medical condition is by “choice”? can you really quantify choice in each and every case? if you can, good for you. just try proving it in court.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
I immigrated here and make $8 hour work at restaurant and no afford house, supr idiot is big dumb racist not funny
November 8th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
@scullboy:
Isn’t it too bad you can’t afford to buy a place in this city. If you don’t like it, get the phruck out of this town. We don’t care if you wine or cry. There will always be more people scooping up properties here. You don’t get it, do you? You think this town is all about the olympics. Go ask any chinese who immigrate here and know about the olympics. I bet they don’t even know what it is or care about it. They’re here to avoid the corrupt chinese government and funneling their own money out of their country.
November 8th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
From the $1.5M RE listing above:
“All measurements are approximate buyer to verify. Don’t miss out on this one!!”
So someone is asking a million and a half for a tear-down and they can’t even be bothered to provide accurate measurements?
The arrogance of some RE agents is astounding.
November 8th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
@logic – You may be interested to learn the science does not entirely back up your claims re: overweight. (One of the nice things on blogs like this is people are able to understand that societal constructs aren’t always based on anything solid.)
So I beg your indulgence to walk through what’s true. Society has gotten more overweight: this is true. Within a limited range, a person can affect their weight: this is also true. McDonald’s and a sedentary lifestyle are bad for health – also true. What is not true is that you can look at someone’s level of adipose tissue vs. society (rather than vs. their own genetic baseline) and tell whether or not they’re living a poor lifestyle.
They’ve shown weight to be as heritable as height – which you definitely CAN affect with nutrition – but only to a point, and the difference may still put you on the high or low end of society’s bell curve. There are very slender people who are still fatter than their genes, and very fat people who, compared to their own baseline, are quite slender.
Fat folks have been around for centuries. There’ve been fat poor folks not getting much to eat for a very, very long time – having fat is a great genetic strategy for people raised for generations in food insecurity. Pre-health-care and feeding tubes, fat was also genetically helpful in times of illness or injury. It’s quite clear in the science that weight loss is not a matter of “calories in, calories out” to a percentage body fat baseline that all people can achieve. The lay person often brings up thermodynamics, yet no one expects all cars to be similarly fuel efficient, nor are all cars built for the same sort of environment.
Anyway, there’s billions of dollars in marketing diet products; interestingly, diet routines very often cause gain on the other side of the diet. (Long term studies, of which there are few, show that even long term adherents to a diet usually plateau and then begin regain *while adhering* to the diet. That area has not been well enough researched: I hypothesize that it may be the irony of our century that our insistence that all people be not-fat may have made some percentage of fat people fatter.)
So, I agree, we all make health choices, and some lifestyles are healthier than others. But it’s marketing, and not science, behind constructions of weight as choice. It may be, but only within a range vs. your own genetic baseline.
Now, genetically fat people may inherently have poorer outcomes in a variety of diseases, just as thin people are at risk for osteoporosis or people of African ancestry are more likely to have sickle cell. But even sickle cell also arose from a positive adaptation against malaria! That’s the way of evolution.
November 8th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
The Government wants us all to remain healthy so we can continue to pay taxes and buy things.
The Conspiracy theorists think the Government is intentionally poisoning everyone, with a vaccine, but how would they benefit from doing this?
Go have a smoke and think about it…
November 8th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
@logic:
But that’s as far as the analogy goes as far as I’m concerned. That is hardly a foundation on which to base a meaningful analogy due to the points I already mentioned.
November 8th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
@denialbythemile: No credible evidence exists to link autism to vaccines, and mountains of research has shown no link. Autism research has been slowed significantly because scientists keep having to demonstrate this. Unvaccinated children are starting to die from preventable disease but I doubt we’ll see Jenny McCarthy standing next to an iron lung or at a funeral, saying how proud she is that the parents didn’t get their child vaccinated. I *am* a scientist and I give my kids every vaccine I can.
November 8th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
* Ok, where to begin?
“refused the mercury laced vaccinations for my children as well because of the direct link to menatal illness , spec autism.”
* Rumour and discredited studies. There has NEVER been a convinicing and repeatable link between accination and autism proven.
“the huge increase in special needs kids in the schools today.”
* No, the increase is coming from a combination of (a) the fact that we keep genetically deficient children alive much better than we used to (this is a good thing, in my opinion, but it comes at a cost) and (b) rampant over-diagnosis of such things are ADD, mild autism etc. In the past these kids were still different, but were not diagnosed as such. No we have a name for every difference and turn it into a syndrome.
November 8th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
People are forgetting the downside to the Flu shots. It is a point being played down by the government which is trying to manage themselves back ibto control of the situation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8riAeGh48U
I refused the mercury laced vaccinations for my children as well because of the direct link to menatal illness , spec autism. I taked to the doctor about it and he chucked out ” it only happenes in 1 in a thousand cases.
If you read the papers this morning the BCTF is pointing out the huge increase in special needs kids in the schools today. Where are they coming from, the moon?
http://www.vancouversun.com/bu.....story.html
I wouldn’t take anything I hear from these so called ‘professionals’ seriously. They have their own agenda and it doesn’t necessarily include the safety of your children.
Recently the Health counter attack has been to blame everyone but themselves for the wave of deaths.
November 8th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
That West 7th Triplex… I’ve walked by it. Near it on West 8th are at least 3 similar places with big development application boards in front. It’s a nice area, wouldn’t be a bad place to live in a 1/2 duplex etc, if the price was reasonable. Unfortunately, no place in this city is nice enough to go broke for. Sure there are some convenient grocery stores and restaurants, but it’s not paved in gold with lollipop trees.
November 8th, 2009 at 11:44 am
“Your home is where you live,” said Kathy Wetmore, a Houston real estate agent, not an investment with a guaranteed return. Recalling several boom and bust cycles in her 22-year career, she added, “You make money in business, not in real estate.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11.....atrick.net
November 8th, 2009 at 10:10 am
This week’s “Bargain”, courtesy of MLS.ca.
Please somebody tell me we’re living in a Bizarro World, and this isn’t really true. $1.5 million for the opportunity to rebuild AND to replace drain tiles. What have we come to in this day and age?
MLS: V796656 $1,498,000
2320 sqft (that’s a paltry $645/sq ft)
Great opportunity to rent this duplex that used to be a tri-plex or take it down and rebuild. Large 50′ X 120′ RT-8 lot in prime Kits location. Perfect for a duplex with coach house rebuild! Do not wait to take this opportunity to own agreat property that can be held or redeveloped immediately. There is only one tenant at the moment and the drain tiles are in need of replacing if someone was to keep the building. All measurements are approximate buyer to verify. Don’t miss out on this one!!
November 8th, 2009 at 9:53 am
“@logic: The argument for vaccinations is that society as a whole benefits from a higher number of vaccinations. Its no coincidence that you don’t hear a lot about mumps, polio or measles anymore. The only thing that concerns me about the h1n1 vaccine is that it’s being rushed. Vaccines in general have lead to much less disease an death.”
——
I totally agree with you. Am just pointing out that some posters above don’t agree.
November 8th, 2009 at 9:29 am
@logic: The argument for vaccinations is that society as a whole benefits from a higher number of vaccinations. Its no coincidence that you don’t hear a lot about mumps, polio or measles anymore. The only thing that concerns me about the h1n1 vaccine is that it’s being rushed. Vaccines in general have lead to much less disease an death.
There is a similar argument for housing: that promoting ownership improves the economy as a whole, however this has been proven time and time again to be a temporary effect, with a very negative result when the bubble bursts.
November 8th, 2009 at 8:06 am
jesse, but one option (buying or renting) will be worse or better for one’s financial health – that’s why we discuss RE prices on here, no? So, to explain the analogy between vaccinations and housing, the govt wants you to buy (be vaccinated), and claims it is better for you. Most on here disagree (like the vaccination contrarians), and refuse. We will live or die (finacially) with the consuquences of our choice. That’s all I’m saying.
November 8th, 2009 at 7:13 am
logic, from a utility point of view, renting or owning a specific property is the same — they both provide shelter, ameneties and location.. That one is markedly more expensive than the other (owning) and still being promoted by the government seems odd to me.
There is IMO reasonable science backing the gov’t position on vaccination. Others disagree but I’ve looked at the balance of evidence and made up my own mind. I see no such science (social science in this case) for promoting home ownership when the costs are higher than renting. Any supposed social benefit would be cancelled by reducing disposable income.
November 8th, 2009 at 1:57 am
Hey Supra,
Why don’t you pull the action figures out of your ass, step away from the keyboard and go take a walk? You’re a fucking idiot.
Business in food and beverage overall if down more then 40% now compared to last year. Yeah those large upscale casual places are packed…. on Fridays, when most of downtown wants to stop in for a beer. Big fucking deal. The hours of 4-8 on a Friday are the only thing keeping those places afloat, they’re losing money during the rest of the week.
Every other place is struggling hard to stay afloat except those cheap ass Chinese rat shit Richmond cesspits you seem to eat in, and trust me most of those have kitchens are so filthy and staff so poorly trained and unhygienic H1N1 is the least of your worries eating there.
Just because you and some poser friends haul your stupid asses out of Mummy and Daddy’s Basement and have to stand in line for a place (if you really did because let’s face it, you’re also a fucking liar) doesn’t mean the industry as a whole is doing especially well. It certainly doesn’t mean the economy is booming, fucktard.
Cafe Artigiano on Pender is also lined up around the block every day. Guess what, moron? THeir employees are making 8 bucks an hour. The only way they can afford to live in this town is by staying at home. Yeah, they’ll be contributing to the economy for sure.
The people who work in restaurants are probably averaging $15/hour which in this town won’t even pay rent. That includes their tips. I’m here to tell you, the difference between Canadians and canoes is that canoes sometimes tip.
Those call centers that just closed pay way better those jobs are require way more skills. I know this because I managed a department in one. I know about the restaurant industry because I’m a trained chef and actually work in restaurants.
YOU and every fucking idiot like you are a big fucking reason I am getting out of Van. I’m so fucking tired of hearing people like you, day in and day out. You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about, yet you still insist on yap yap yapping away.
Meanwhile skills jobs are flooding out of this city. I was just talking to someone an hour ago who mentioned his company is relocating a call center to Halifax because it’s much closer to New York so it’s a lot easier to handle the calls. It’s a hell of a lot cheaper too, in rent, salary and infrastructure costs. Nova Scotia’s been quietly luring those jobs with tax credits.
Pretty soon Van’s local economy is going to get hollowed out, leaving people like you who were way too stupid to see what was happening till it was too late. I really hope you end up deep frying rat turds in some Godforsaken Richmond kitchen, calling it Dim Sum, and serving it to your family.
Now, fuck off. We’re all sick of hearing from you.
I am really l
November 8th, 2009 at 1:42 am
“I was there”
Wow, you stood in both queues for an hour each? That real determination to get into those crapholes. However, I thought with all your bling and street-cred you’d get VIP-ed straight in past the queues.
And no thanks. The food at Cactus is mediocre at best. I’d prefer somewhere that does interesting food, say Raincity Grill? I get a table there whenever I want it, thanks very much.
November 8th, 2009 at 12:27 am
I meant ‘Broadway’.
As for how do I know the queues were 1 hour long, I was there. Why don’t you meet me next Friday at Cactus, if you can get a table of 4 within an hour at 7pm, dinner is on me.
November 8th, 2009 at 12:08 am
Supra, not to poke holes in your argument (cos its too easy), but how do you know the queues were 1-hour long? did you stand in both for an hour to see?
Also, where is “Broadways”?
November 7th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
You fools think the rise in housing prices have to do with the Olympics. What a joke. Do you actually think the flood of immigrants from Iran, China, Russia, Eastern Europe, and India gives a rat’s arse about the Olympics? If you think they care about the HST, think again. They don’t care about unemployment even if it rises to 50% as long as there are people working at the docks, trucking and restaurants. As long as food is transported in from the terminals to the chinese restaurants, they’ll continue to stay and load up houses.
I just went to Joey’s on Broadways, the lineup was one hour long, then I went to Cactus Club down one block and it was one hour long. Those restaurants are packed with Indians and Europeans now.
Most of you who post here probably don’t even know where those restaurants are because you’re too busy lining up at Costco stocking up your monthly intake.
November 7th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
76, jesse?????? So are you a scientist? who are you to tell others what is better for their health. When there are experts divided on the topic you say with absolute certainty what is right. that is why i believe the government should butt out of our lives no matter how well intentioned.
November 7th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
jesse:
“For housing there are two viable and EQUAL alternatives: owning and renting.”
* Not at all eequal if one is thinking of one’s financial health. Afterall, that’s what this blog is all about, no?
“Only owning is being promoted by the government”
* And only getting vaccinated is being promoted by the govt.
“With vaccination there is a real danger that not receiving one is decidedly worse for one’s health.”
* Well, as we’ve seen in some of the anti-vaccination comments on this blog, not everyone agrees. (I agree with you BTW, but am happy to admit that the “vaccinations are bad” folks might be right – I’m no immunologist).
“It is possible for the government to promote both good and policies under the same watch.”
* Not sure what this means. “Good and bad”? If so, I totally agree.
November 7th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
@logic: “Choices, consequences. That’s all I’m arguing for. “
I don’t see how vaccinations and ownership are anything the same. For housing there are two viable and EQUAL alternatives: owning and renting. Only owning is being promoted by the government.
With vaccination there is a real danger that not receiving one is decidedly worse for one’s health. The two alternatives are far from equal on balance.
It is possible for the government to promote both good and policies under the same watch. I call a straw man.
November 7th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
@logic:
Agreed, as long as the government is not manipulating things.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:23 pm
other ted, I don’t think we really disagree.
I’m not saying anyone should be forced to take the flu shot – but I am saying that IF people freely choose not to, then they should pay the consequences IF they get the flu. ie: they should not be covered by MSP if they get ill when they could have taken preventative measures. This would be a market model of health care – we choose our own level of risk, and live (or not
) with the consequences.
With regard to housing, it should be the same. The govt wants (encourages) me to buy a house because it is good for me (so they say), yet I refuse. If I miss the opportunity and don’t buy, and the bulls are somehow right and I am eternally priced out and have to “waste” rent for ever and ever, then I should not complain, as it was my choice.
Choices, consequences. That’s all I’m arguing for.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
71. logic I understand what you are saying, but who decides what is healthy and what isn’t. I for one live healthier than an obese person who took the flu shot. I won’t be taking it and I don’t feel it is warranted and possibly unsafe.
You are twisting this as an example of how the government caves to people like they do with mortgages. Sure that is one way of looking at it. i look at it as the governemnt is too the involved in our lives and in deciding what is goodfor us. The government thinks home ownership is good. I don’t think its good or bad I think it is my choice. As long as health and housing and all markets are regulated to ensure they are fair safe fairly priced etc. it is up to the individual to decide what is best for them.
November 7th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
68: “ogically speaking, anybody who’s in need of medical attention is putting stress on the system.”
——————-
No, the logical extension of my argument is that everyone who KNOWINGLY and INTENTIONALLY puts themself in a higher _risk_ category should pay more. Your extrapolation is an illogical jump from apples to oranges.
Anyway, enough of a rant – otherwise you’ll be calling me realpaul. Ick.
I’m off for a run.
November 7th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
67: “Where does it end? ”
———-
With a respect for responsibility for one’s action, lifestyle choices, and the consequences that come from them. However, this will never happen in today’s society, because we have “sydromised” everything, and we can blame everything we do on someone else (bad upbringing, advertising made me eat McD’s, etc etc). Let’s face it, we live in an infantilised society where we are excused every vice and failing. Which, bring this back to RE, is eactly what the government is doing with mortgage insurance.
November 7th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
at 67: “For people who are poor, they have to eat the cheap, starchy food.”
———–
Yes, but calories in – calories out = weight loss or gain. Anyone can eat less and go for a walk. One does not need money for this, just self-respect and willpower.
November 7th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
66:
“@logic: logic, some people gain a lot of weight due to medications for other conditions. Just saying.”
————-
Yes, but most people don’t. There are exceptions, but most obese people are that way because they eat too much / too badly.
November 7th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
“They (statistically) will put more stress on the system”
well, since you’re so logical, logically speaking, anybody who’s in need of medical attention is putting stress on the system. why don’t we just shoot everyone who requires medical attention? you know, elderly, disabled, someone with the flu, … that way we only have healthy people and can get rid of that pesky MSP.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
@logic: I volunteer at the foodbank and I’m shocked at how many donations are crap like Kraft Dinner. For people who are poor, they have to eat the cheap, starchy food. Children raised on this food are more likely to be obese through no fault of their own, even when they grow up. Penalizing them is taking more money from the already poor.
While we’re at it, why don’t we penalized all risky behavior. What about the lean, trim, non-smoking Yuppie who does coke and drives around like a manic in his souped up beemer?
Where does it end?
November 7th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
@logic: logic, some people gain a lot of weight due to medications for other conditions. Just saying.
November 7th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
61, other ted: “I heard if nurses refused the vaccine they would have their insurance voided. Can anyone confirm this? … If the government is gonna say who can be insured how about fat people?”
———————————–
They should lose their MSP protection if they refuse to be vaccinated (if they are medically directed to do so).
And IMHO fat people SHOULD pay more MSP than me. They (statistically) will put more stress on the system, and therefore should pay increased premiums (and before anyone says it, BMI is not a good indicator of this, but there are other measures that are). I realsie that this is controversial, but fatness, smoking, etc. are CHOICES, and should come with consequences. I should not have to pay more for healthcare insurance (aka taxes) if you choose to eat McD’s everyday.
November 7th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
59: “I honestly believe flu vaccinations ARE bad for you. … than treating EVERYTHING with synthetic drugs?”
————-
You don’t actually know what vaccinations are, do you? They are not synthetic drugs. People like you are the reason that infectious deseases are on the rise once more.
BTW, I agree with you on the point about lysol, etc, and the growing sterility of environment’s weakening immune-responses, but this is exactly how vaccines work – they expose you to the disease and let your immune syetem operate.
November 7th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Only a couple of months till olympics..good.
Time goes by pretty fast, and Im already thinking spring time.
A couple of oly weeks and its over, phew! Two weeks is two work periods, during which I work, get home, eat, shower, prepare for next day, read something related to work, go to bed. Weekend (usually during week): go out and hunt for food, chill in the forest or storm watching.
Watch olympics?? LOL.. no time! Important and matters? hardly.
Heard of reality?
November 7th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Yeah… Well personally I’ll take science over mumbo jumbo.
Sure, eat well blah blah. Also get the shot.
I knew a guy who was working towards starting a business selling ‘raw’ foods which he swore was the healthiest most natural thing you could eat. He was as sick as a dog for a month but refused to admit that maybe, just maybe the diet wasn’t protecting him against that sort of thing…
November 7th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Drachen I agree with you up to the last part about insulting people who think vaccines are bad. I think its a personal choice. I think vaccines are a trade off. Putting any vaccine compromises your immune syste. Its just a risk/reward scenario. Is the risk of the vaccine ouweighed by the risk of the infection? For polio I will line up. For a flu you got to be kidding me. But to each their own.
As for the flames what a joke. they scapegoated a guy and fired him. The real issue is why was the government so unprepared if it is so important. And hockey players are high risk to themselves and young fans that they meet everyday. they are in contact with thousands. They probably see more people than doctors each day.
I heard if nurses refused the vaccine they would have their insurance voided. Can anyone confirm this? Talk about a police state. If the government is gonna say who can be insured how about fat people? This whole flu thing has been blown out of proportion.
November 7th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Drachen you mean to tell me that this doctor couldn’t have found 20 high risk people to give the shots to? The expiry story is a bit too convenient. I’m sure he has one of the vials left over so the media can confirm his story. Let me guess: they all got thrown out.
November 7th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Drachen,
I’m all for progress and all, but I honestly believe flu vaccinations ARE bad for you. Just like spraying everything around you with Lysol or living in a bubble. Why don’t we demand healthier foods, better living conditions and less stressful work from our beloved governments rather than treating EVERYTHING with synthetic drugs?
Because it is actually effective and beneficial???
I wouldn’t let my dog be injected with this crap, let alone my children. We have never, ever gotten immunized against flu and nobody in my family has ever gotten sick either. The same cannot be said about everyone else I know who did. You’d be surprised how effective “old school” methods (like proper nutrition, plenty of sleep and lack of mold in your bedroom) are against common ilments, including the dreaded FLU!
It’s not a black friggin’ plague for crying out loud!
November 7th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
@denialbythemile:
I think, regarding hockey players at least, you are out of line. It’s my understanding that with the Flames the team doctor assured the players that because of their travel schedule they WERE on the list. There was another team (AHL I believe) in Alberta that was injected when a Dr. who worked with the team found he had a few dozen left-over doses at the end of a clinic and he’d have to throw them away if he couldn’t find enough arms to put them in, he said that was the only place he knew he could go to get that many people all at once.
I just took my kids to the clinic today and we didn’t even have enough time to fill out the paperwork before our turn came up, so I don’t think anyone is going wanting.
The people that bug me in all this is the Jenny Mcarthy crowd who try to convince people that vaccinations are bad for you, I am certain some of their gullible followers and their children will die in the next few months.
November 7th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
@krazy kanuk:
I agree Krazy Kanuk, there are some utter spongers and wasters who are fully legal here in Canada.
I came here 10 years ago legally and my papers said that if i were to commit a crime in the first 10 years i could be deported. Ha ha, i actually believed it, not that i was likely to commit a crime. Now of course i realise that the government was just blowing hot air. I’d have had to be a child killer before this wishy-washy injustice system would have booted me out.
November 7th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
@logic: The sad thing is this guy gives a bad reputation to all illegals. Even if someone is here illegally, I don’t have nearly the problem with them if they contribute. Parasites like this need to be aggressively prosecuted with whatever legislation possible. Can’t our government make a good case for welfare fraud? Tax evasion? He needs to have all his ill gotten gains confiscated before he gets kicked out.
November 7th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
^^ “Fuck you”
November 7th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Ethics and morality are all thrown aside when sick children, elderly and pregnant woman are in betwen the privelaged and the H1N1 flu shot in Canada. All the talk of generosity of spirit and competance are exposed for the sham that they are in this country under the recent test. Hockey players, politicians, board directors and wealthy donars are among the legions of frauds, liars and scumbags who have stepped on the necks of the weak to scurry ahead like the rats they are.
Reading the newspapers and seeing the events unfold in the media show whay a disgusting and perverted set of assholes we have as government leadership and quasi professional providers of services. They have sat around and bellowed over the rights to fat paycheques and pension perks, demanded more more and recieved while in fact being nothing but sucking Judases and parasites.
I hope people are using this example as a final determination on how to treat these shitheads belicose demands in the future.
Frankly if it were up to me I would replace the entire lot of them through a meritocratic process from candidate submissions from around the world. Get rid of the nepotism which has shown the ugly face of its incompetance in this trial.
And doesn’t anyone think that boycotting a couple of seasons of hockey would be appropriate. I mean, stepping over sick and helpless kids to dummy up a vaccine shot for yourself has to be the lowest , scummiest move we’ve seen. And for what, your superstar stautus and paycheque? Fuck you if you’re one of those people and the mother you rode into town on.
November 7th, 2009 at 10:53 am
@dan: For many goods like, say, food the HST will increase consumer prices because the entire supply chain, if run efficiently, cannot lower its costs. However housing is a completely different beast.
Look at it from the builder’s perspective. His costs consist of labour, materials, bridge financing, and land. The buyer pays all this plus the margin and taxes. The builder can try to pass on the HST to the buyer but what the buyer can pay is limited by affordability so increased costs likely won’t stick, especially with existing product not subject to HST directly competing (as was mentioned already).
The most likely way out is for builders to pay less for the land or lay off until housing becomes scarce again. In the short term I would expect downwards pressure on land prices — from all indications there is no shortage of housing given how rents are falling.
November 7th, 2009 at 9:09 am
@dan: I don’t get your logic. If the premium someone is willing to pay for a new house is already in effect, and builders take price drops because of the HST, that doesn’t change the amount of the theoretical premium. There’s no way that puts upward pressure on older homes that may need more repairs.
Remember the HST will be baked into all those repair costs as well. Add that to higher property taxes that everyone knows is coming and the only pressure I see on older house prices is down.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:10 am
If the BC unemployment rate went up 1% last month while the Olympics is doing all of its hiring, just imagine what the unemployment numbers will do after the Olympics when they don’t need those workers anymore. Didn’t they say in September that they were still looking to hire 10,000?