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November 20th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
@logic:
Who from Vancouver can afford to travel?
November 20th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
“It took traveling across the country to really get it”
So true. Also true of realising the bad points, which is why more people from Van should travel.
November 20th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Hey Vomitron,
You know Halifax pretty well. I hadn’t thought of it as Whistler – like but that’s not a bad comparison really.
It can definitely be stupid-ass and backward. Rural Nova Scotia can be pretty bad though I never considered it fundamental. I was invited to my 20th high school reunion this year and the woman who invited me went out of her way to say if I brought a “partner” he’d be made most welcome. All things considered I thought that was pretty cool.
It’s definitely homogenous…. there are white people, and more white people.
There’s a pretty sizable black community and a small native presence and that’s more or less it. That’s a downside but hey as I said before you don’t get people saying “Rich ****** are moving and that’s why it’s so expensive”. You also don’t get racist gits like Supraboy implying Canadians are stupid and lazy and that foreigners are going to push us out of our own country. If you go back and read post 5 you’ll see that’s exactly what he implies.
It’s funny because I didn’t appreciate the good points of Halifax when I was growing up there. It took traveling across the country to really get it.
November 20th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
@46WTF
I couldn’t agree with you more.
November 20th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
I was surprised to see a few posters jump on the freedoms vs China issue. There certainly are fewer freedomes in China which is why millions of Chinese are bailing out of that country now that the gates have been flung open.
Emigration is welcomed in China for political reason, it takes the overflow out of the country and backloads the excess onto sucker countrys like Canada.
China likes it when whole church group communities of Christian Evangelists leave Shanghai to suck up Canadian tax revenues. Its a win win for the Chinese.
The useless retired engineers and older workers who still qualify as ‘skilled’ workers all get points to come to Canada even though they have no intention of ever paying a dime in taxes. Those guys are also encouraged to leave China for the free Health care and seniors residential opportunities courtesy of Canada. They get to sponsor all thier cousins kids for a free education too. What a nice bunch the Canadians are. Too bad they’re so naive.
China loves Canadian b;eeding heart Liberals who can’t shovel the tax payers money into the pockets of revenue sucking immigrants extended families fast enough. Free mah jong money for all, hooray. Bring in all the grand parents too. We have health care dollars aplenty. I’m only amazed that theres anyone left in China or the Punjab to keep up the garbage strewn cities and massacres. Why don’t we jst let them all in?
What I was surprised to see though that posters jumped on the freedom bandwagon while talking about China while standing still on the loss of freedoms we have been experiancing in this countery. Anyone who doesn’t want to end up in a shithole like China should be very vocal about our rights and freedoms here in Canada.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
@patriotz:
You have it mixed up Patriotz, the CMHC will insure 5-20% down mortgages, they figure that over 20% the banks can handle the risk. The banks NEVER have to go with CMHC insurance it just they’d be dumb not to since it’s the consumer that pays the premiums.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Re: Vancouver vs Halifax
I have lived in both Vancouver and Halifax. Vancouver has pretty scenery but Halifax is a pretty city even without the scenery. Summers in Nova Scotia are like summers in Vancouver. Winter in Nova Scotia is nicer than Vancouver because there is snow that you can cross-country ski on without having to take a horrendous car trip. Winter temperatures in Halifax are not much colder than Vancouver. In fact, Halifax in the winter is a slightly warmer version of Whistler but without the coke dealers and hookers of Whistler.
I really like Halifax. The people in Halifax are polite and they will not run you down with their BMW SUV while you are in the crosswalk. Standards of behaviour are generally much higher in Halifax than they are in Vancouver. There are far fewer ultra-materialistic poseurs in Halifax than Vancouver.
Halifax has a thriving drunk pub crawl where it is actually possible to crawl from one pub to another when you suitably shitfaced for the evening (or afternoon). Vancouver has a nightclub scene of exctasy and Red Bull and posing, shallow bullshitters who may pull a handgun on you if you make eye contact.
Halifax has a local music scene that has not been destroyed by real-estate speculators. Bars in Halifax can afford to host jam sessions without a cover charge. Artists can afford to live in Halifax and poor people can afford to attend a bar for an evening’s live entertainment. The same can no longer be said of Vancouver (see the Cobalt, etc).
Nova Scotia is in some ways stupid-ass backward and not very multicultural. Rural Nova Scotia has it’s share of white Christian fundamentalist nitwits (like Alabama, say). On the other hand, Vancouver is not really very multicultural either. Although Vancouver may have migrants from different parts of the world the dominant Vancouver culture is plain homogenous, trans-global capitalism (partly in the form of organized crime) and crass materialistic one-upmanship. If anything, Vancouver does not have the advantages of Asian culture but does have the disadvantages of German culture in the form of a plethora of dangerous BMW’s and Mercedes driven by Asian migrants. In Vancouver a BMW driver will run down a pedestrian because she believes pedestrians have no human rights. In Halifax a Chevette driver (the official car of Nova Scotia) would only run you down because they are shitfaced drunk – and they would not leave the scene without interrupting their cell phone conversation, like a Vancouver driver would.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Vancouver’s weather is great it is just that we only have two seasons.
Winter = cold rain. Summer = warm rain.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
@Anonymous:
That would bankrupt every lending institution in the country. Absolutely will not happen. Economic job #1 for this government is keeping the banks solvent. Not even during the wage and price control era of the late 70′s/early 80′s did the government try to control lending rates.
And if you are maybe talking about letting the banks charge what they want but the government paying the increase rather than the borrower, that will not happen either, because it would bankrupt the government.
If you want a real life example, the Alberta RE bust has been in progress since 2007, and its provincial government has done absolutely nothing to aid distressed homeowners. And it’s the only government in the country that has the financial means to do it.
November 20th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
@pricedoutfornow:
Banks are legally required to get CMHC insurance for loans with less than 20% down, but there is nothing stopping them from requiring CMHC insurance for loans with larger down payments, as they are quite free to set any lending terms they want and CMHC is quite willing to insure them (less risk for the same premium). In fact banks often require CMHC insurance with larger down payments for recreational or other second properties or those which they think have significant risk of price downside.
Some people might not be clear on what the term “subprime” actually means in US mortgage lending. It simply means a mortgage issued to someone with a poor credit rating. If the borrower has a good credit rating, it’s not subprime, regardless of the price/income, debt service ratio, amortization, etc. Loans to borrowers with good credit ratings which have nutty terms such as neg-am are known as “Alt-A”, and comprise a separate class for default statistics – and they are of course defaulting in droves. As are even prime mortgages.
The point, of course, is that someone’s credit rating, which most of the time is based on consumer spending, has no relationship to the borrower’s ability to carry a capital asset like a house. Fundamentals do.
IMHO commentators south of the border who blame the housing bust on subprime lending are trying to make people think that lending to the “wrong people” as opposed to “Real Americans” was responsible. If you get what I mean.
November 20th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
@spark: sorry for the duplicate.
November 20th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
oh yeah Bankruptcies are up.
http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/sto.....ember.html
November 20th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
German guy’s analysis combined with personal bankruptcies soaring = it is just a matter of time til this house of cards falls.
Stick a fork in this bubble – it is done!
November 20th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
@shannon: Which mortgage calculator did you use? Thanks.
November 20th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Short attention spanners alert!!! The Alt-A bow wave that was discussed a year ago on these very pages is still heading towards the tsunami stages that had been forecast. Our government may be prepared to push the national debt into never never land territory but it doesn’t solve anything. The master bullshitter Finance Minister this morning said that we will grow our way out of the deficit by 2014/15. He didn’t didn’t mention that the National debt is skyrocketing to levels not seen since the 80′s when Canada was technicallly banckrupt and the LIBS had to gouge Canadians for everything from transfer payment reductions to huge tax increases by order of the IMF.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com.....le1370396/
The only thing that has recovered is the massive debt. No other business is reporting healthy growth based on non stimulus spending. Housing is a bubble, government services is a bubble, unemployment is still growing (although they spin it to infer that the velocity of growth has slowed) and personal bankruptcies is again up another 45% !!
If you can’t make ends meet at zero intrest rates then WOW…..whats going to happen when China can’t swallow any more inflation and demands 5% for Canadian bonds. Our government is currently buying all its own debt. That means big problems for taxpayers down the road. Can the government continue to add this debt into the future? What is the inflection point? I’m going to suggest it will turn around and bite us in the ass a lot sooner than 2015.
When we have to borrow massive sums of money to pay intrest on the national debt which surpasses tax collection and the projected GDP (as happened in the 80′s) what will the rate be?
Aussie is controlling its debt by bringing in foriegn capital to fund government spending at 3.5%. If that was the case in a Canada where bankruptcies are increasing 100% per annum at 0% what would the velocity of bankruptcy be at 3.5%?
November 20th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
“You could have fired a cannon on the street and no one would have heard it! It used to be so busy in the West End. What happened? ”
When did you live in the West End?
The Granville Entertainment District and Yaletown have moved the crowds east. Plus all those lifestyle owners!
November 20th, 2009 at 11:53 am
But…. but….. I thought our resident food and wine expert Supratard said all the restaurants in town are booming! That’s what he said, isn’t it?
Gosh if he’s wrong about that maybe he’s wrong about all the rich Asians buying up property. Naaaaaahhhhhh couldn’t be……
November 20th, 2009 at 11:41 am
@Richard All: As an ex-pat West Ender myself – there for 17 years myself – I would say that it must be that you and I left. We were the life of the party!
November 20th, 2009 at 11:12 am
@Anonymous:
Like I said, I lived downtown for years. It rains a lot here; the “8 feet” you refer too is nothing new, but it never used to keep anyone inside in the West End.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:47 am
@Richard All
Although restaurants in general have slowed because of the economy, I’d say the 8 feet of rain we’ve had over the last few days has kept people locked up inside.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:46 am
Anonymoose:
Better is definitely a relative term. After spending 3 winters here I can’t say Vancouver has better weather. I find it MUCH darker here, for starters. The extremely low hanging cloud cover makes my feel really claustrophobic. I’ve never seen rain like we get in Vancouver, and I used to think the Maritimes were wet.
Vancouver’s weather is often cited as a reason “everyone want to live here”. After 3 years I’d have to say yeah it’s milder, but winters aren’t great. Certainly at this point if I were looking to escape Winter I’d pick something up in either Phoenix, Miami, or somewhere in California.
Hell I think even the south of France is more affordable then Van now.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:33 am
@Supraboy: Boy, you really are a supratard!
Speaking of weather, it’s sunny and in the mid-20′s all week here in Phoenix. It sure is nice to be a renter in Van! With all the money I save I can afford plenty of vacations during the long “gray season”.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:21 am
And now, another in a series of anecdotal observations…
I was downtown last night for a few ‘pops’ for the first time in several years. I had lived down in the west end for 17 years and was always amazed how busy it was in the evenings (and how it seemed to be getting busier all the time). Well after a few pops, my buddy and I decided to get something to eat so we went down to Denman St. at about 1030pm. There wasn’t anyplace open except for a couple of bars – even though all the eateries had signs on the doors that they were open until 11. You could have fired a cannon on the street and no one would have heard it! It used to be so busy in the West End. What happened?
November 20th, 2009 at 10:10 am
@scullboy:
You really sound bitter for a person who’s planning to leave this city. Just leave and STFU.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:10 am
“….. Better is a matter of definition, but for weather I’d personally take three months of gray with rain over six months ….”
Three months of gray with rain – where is that- San Francisco?
If you’re referring to Vancouver you mean 9 1/2 months of rainy, soggy, mouldy crud! The single biggest falsehood about Vancouver, by far, is the notion that it has nice weather! It’s absolute nonsense! Even the ‘World Class City’ tag (which is also utter nonsense) has more cred. Vancouver has a mild climate, but the worst weather of any major city in the western hemisphere. Anyone who doesn’t think so was either born here (and thinks it’s like this everywhere) or they’ve just moved here and haven’t realized how crappy the weather is yet.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:08 am
@logic:
“Asians are the hardest working people on this planet”
—-
Who is being racist now?
omg…you are a sad sack. How is that a racist comment? Calling a group of people being the hardest working is racist. How fickle can you get? So if I call your male friend hard working, you’ll say I’m gay?
November 20th, 2009 at 9:50 am
Bankruptcies soar 43%
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/.....ember.html
Full Report shows BC is not doing well:
http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/b.....02300.html
November 20th, 2009 at 9:27 am
“Tell me to my face that Van’s winters are better. Seriously. I’ll laugh right across the continent.”
I spent quite a few years living in Halifax. Better is a matter of definition, but for weather I’d personally take three months of gray with rain over six months of frozen wasteland and -30 windchills. Serious Winter in Halifax is only just beginning now – the snow will be gone by April or May. That being said Halifax has lots of things better than Vancouver – affordable housing, friendlier people (once you get past the door, which can take a while), etc.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:49 am
Canadian bankruptcies up
http://www.globeinvestor.com/s.....1/GIStory/
November 20th, 2009 at 8:35 am
I fooled around with an online mortgage calculator. They asked you to put in your gross income and how long. They had the rate already in place. It then calculated how much you could borrow and what your payments would be. I played with it alot until it all came clear. The bigger the downpayment had no effect on how much you could borrow or on the monthly payments. The only component that changed anything was the monthy income. The higher the income, the more I could borrow, even with zero down.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:33 am
Not sure where you get your weather reports. It’s 8C in Vancouver and 11C in Halifax right now. Since the sun is already out over there, I’d consider that pretty even.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:31 am
For somebody who can’t wait to leave, you sure spend a lot of time and effort on here.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:36 am
Ah Supratard, pulling the Channing Tatum ball gag out of his mouth and throwing around the racist card…. God your really are the Dum son of dim sons.
Let’s see… I complain that the “rich ***** (whatever ethnic group) is coming here and buying all the property, thus keeping property values high” meme is complete bullshit, and I get called a racist who despises Chinese.
YOU claim that with all the lazy people in Canada, it’s only a matter of time until the wealthy (insert ethnic groups here) “invade” (YOUR word, dumbass). You claim Canadians are dumb and lazy people who leech off government money.
Really, Supratard? Seriously? THAT is your claim? Doesn’t it strike you as odd? I mean if nothing else GOVERNMENT GETS ITS INCOME FROM ITS CITIZENS YOU FUCKING IDIOT.
And *I* am the racist? Seriously?
You know, you never hear this shit in Toronto. Seriously. People there give each other a good natured racially-tinged ribbing, if they know each other well enough to understand that the jokes won’t be taken the wrong way. You certainly never hear the kind of shit Supratard slings…. it would be considered shockingly backward.
Every day I stick around here, Vancouver seems more and more…. well provincial.
It’s so funny too… most of the information I get about the Chinese community comes from Chinese people like my buddies the gangsters. One guy is apparently a badass that doesn’t dare return to Taiwan. He operates out of Shanghai now. I even got offered a fairly high ranking job there, but he warned me Shanghai’s “business” is all about keeping a bunch of really low-level, poorly educated slobs working out of the fear of reprisal. According to my friend, that’s most of China….. it’s essentially an enormous mass of very poorly educated, low level people working at a level barely above that of human subsistence, run by a very small number of … well… high level thugs when it comes right down to it.
High level Chinese work ethic… riiiiiight. That explains the lead paint in the kid’s toys, and the melamine in the pet food, and the toxins in the drywall, right? Uh Supratard, your people get worked to death in gulag like conditions. That’s not a high work ethic, it’s fucking slavery. The fact that we have some vestiges or protection for workers in this country is evidence that we, quite frankly, are smarter then the Chinese.
Ooooo did that hurt? I’d say sorry, but let’s face it I mean every fucking word.
Say what you will, tard….. that’s the information I get from someone in the know. Maybe it’s true and maybe it isn’t but that’s certainly how it was related to me.
I don’t give a shit about Vancouver’s housing prices any more, you fucking moron. Have you been too busy self-sodomizing with die cast action figures to notice my posts? Let me spell it out for you again:
I’M LEAVING THIS FUCKING CITY BEHIND. I’M MOVING SOMEWHERE ELSE YOU FUCKING IDIOT.
Got that?
Frankly I don’t give a flying fuck whether it’s the “I Buy three, My huzzba buy three” Richmond idiots, or Russian oligarchs, Or Iranian ex-pats, or triads or hells angels, or hippie boomers or who the fuck ever are keeping prices at their current levels. I really don’t.
Certainly I’m going to laugh when you and your high-roller wannabe buddies discover the difference between an unrealized capital gain and actual profit, but that will be from a continent away.
On a related note, I went for a brief walk today in the never ending twilight that is Vancouver in November. Before I got 5 blocks my shoes were squishy and my pants were drenched from the knees down.
My buddy emailed me a photo of Halifax this morning, the skies were clear blue and the temperature was about 8 degrees warmer then here.
Tell me to my face that Van’s winters are better. Seriously. I’ll laugh right across the continent. Tell me the Chinese are harder workers, too. I’ll laugh just as hard and suggest you try working there instead. I mean let’s face it, you certainly aren’t adding any value to THIS nation.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:17 am
@Anonymous:
“the probability of government intervening into the housing market to keep the bubble inflated is very high (by intervening I mean freezing the rates on all outstanding mortgages).”
The government doesn’t control the rates on mortgages, the banks do. That makes no sense at all. They HAVE intervened through the CMHC and the BOC but it’s just kept the bubble spiralling upwards, if they do MORE to intervene it will simply inflate the bubble further, the only way to stop it is to let it die on it’s own, continued intervention is just a money pit and when the money’s gone it’s going to crash all the harder for the effort.
I think what many people (including yourself) don’t get is that such high prices HURT the economy, people who are paying every last penny on their mortgage don’t have money to spend elsewhere and the loss of that discretionary spending hurts the vendors and their suppliers and the banks who give them loans.
Just as in the States, the only people who will see a government bail-out is the banks and in Canada it’s built in to the system via the CMHC. Banks are too big to fail, home owners and specuvestors are not.
November 20th, 2009 at 12:51 am
http://business.timesonline.co.....922325.ece
November 20th, 2009 at 12:46 am
Supra!
I can totally see you have understood the “freedom of speech” part here in Canada. So I’ll let you into a secret here. Canadian people take it for granted that before an individual exerts its freedom of speech, it must think hard about what it has to say, sort of “freedom of thinking” human right. Given this, I would humbly suggest you read through your post a few times before you submit it.
Otherwise I would very much believe that (as Arit mentions) your kidneys may have some value, but your brains (hmm, how can I say this!) may NOT!
November 20th, 2009 at 12:43 am
@domus: “Real estate is NOT the place to put your money at the moment”. — Can’t agree more. Vancouver real estate is a very risky speculation. It seems to me that the probability of government intervening into the housing market to keep the bubble inflated is very high (by intervening I mean freezing the rates on all outstanding mortgages). The question though is how promptly they will do it. Actions of the most governments are usually reactive in nature. So for some people the ultimate bailout may come too late…
November 20th, 2009 at 12:31 am
@Supraboy:
#5 Your stereotypes and generalizations are a hell of a lot more racist that Scullcaps. Give it a rest.
November 20th, 2009 at 12:11 am
Supraboy, when you say:
“Canada is all about dumb unions and lazy people who leeches off the government money. ”
It makes me wonder what you are doing here. Canada was kind enough to let you and me in. We should at least not spit into the well we drink from.
Now let’s try this: Go back to China and post in a public blog something like “Chinese government corrupts take all your money and buy big houses in Richmond”. Let’s see how long before both your kidneys are sold on eBay by the official Chinese government…
Regards
arit
November 20th, 2009 at 12:04 am
@Supraboy:
“Canada is all about dumb unions and lazy people who leeches off the government money. ”
Can I maybe invite you to leave such horrible society? You seem to hate it over here.
@flip_this:
Flip, that’s an easy one. Just buy some decent, revenue-making, dividend-paying shares/ETF. Decent inflation hedge, income stream, low-risk. If you want, hell, buy gold or silver ETFs. Get shares of banks which pay good dividends (they are not going to fail now, they are carrying no risk at all).
Only one piece of advise: do not buy a house! Real estate is NOT the place to put your money at the moment.
My opinion, anyway.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
@other ted: Well it is not quite out of nothing, by printing money they are confiscating wealth from the savers and redistributing it to the borrowers.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
And you wonder why housing prices are rising in both the U.S. and Canada. Here are some juicy excerpts from a New York Times article via Calculated Risk:
Messrs. Bedar, Rowland, and Kurland are financial geniuses. I’ll bet that by this time next year they’ll be as rich as Tom Vu.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
After reading the story about the german guy who was encouraged to put less than 20% down I am speechless. Whoever is in charge of this policy should be tried for treason. But ultimately its the masses that are to blame. I hate to see this but maybe democracy isn’t that good. From rule of the people it has been corrupted to mob rule. The majority want something out of nothing and they are getting it, for the time being. When this ends ugly the same people are gonna be pointing fingers but at the wrong people.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
“Asians are the hardest working people on this planet”
—-
Who is being racist now?
November 19th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
@domus: I totally agree the bubble will burst, but it will burst in terms of units of labor, units of gold, units of oil, units of whatever tangible property you can imagine. I am very skeptical that paper pieces with words Bank of Canada on them will appreciate against housing, or against anything else for that matter.
November 19th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
You know what guys? I find Scullboy the biggest racist here. The guy uses four letter words, he’s jealous, and he despises Chinese. That guy is completely out of sync with reality. He thinks all rich Chinese sit on their hands and money rains from heaven. If anyone’s been to Asia, you’ll notice that Asians are the hardest working people on this planet and their work ethic is at a very high level that Canadians will never be at. Canada is all about dumb unions and lazy people who leeches off the government money. There is a reason why scullboy puts up slanderous comments, he lacks confidence in life and tries to draw attention from bears so the bears can promote his objective which is to buy a house at rock bottom prices which will never happen.
With lazy people in Canada, it’s a matter of time all the Asians come to Canada and scoop up all the land. It’s not just the Chinese invading the west side, in Port coquitlam, the Koreans have taken over that place, in North Van, you’ve got Iranians. Eventually, the Russians will come and leave their mark. I wouldn’t be surprised if people from the Middle East begins flooding one part of the Greater Vancouver region.
November 19th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
@Anonymous: Short of forbidding a market altogether, no government has enough strength to stop its working for very long.
Hell, even in the socialist countries there was a black market for almost anything.
This thing won;t last much longer, it is a bubble. It should have burst last year. It will eventually.
November 19th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
@domus: Hey domus, I won’t hold my breath: Soviet Union was upside down for 70 years, North Korea is upside down since WWII, Cuba since 1959. State socialism can last a really long time. Unfortunately for us, the housing market bears, this particular Canadian brand of socialism is supported by a rich revenue from natural resources.
November 19th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Do you want to run an interesting experiment this weekend?
Go to your bank and ask them: “Do I get a better mortgage rate if I put down 40% or 5% of the purchase price?”
You might be surprised by the answer. Report to the blog if you do it!
The RE market in this country is truly upside down…..it can’t last much longer.
November 19th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
yeaah nutspanks! remembers might find SCullboy in Halofax, might find CMHC with a huge potfolio, might find drachen in a movie lineup to 2012 but you will not find
“a land making machine”