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	<title>Comments on: Friday Free-for-all!</title>
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	<description>Bubble? What Bubble?</description>
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		<title>By: rid of ball-and-chai</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/12/friday-free-for-all-93.html#comment-60295</link>
		<dc:creator>rid of ball-and-chai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 18:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;Canada is perfect for their wives, parents and children. So this is where they buy houses. Simple.&quot; 
Actually, so they can have 1st concubine in Shanghai, 2nd concubine in  Beijing, and 3rd concubine in Hongkong, 4th concubine in Macau, 5th concubine in Shenzhen ... the list is shorter than Tiger Wood&#039;s &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-60295&quot;&gt;1&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Canada is perfect for their wives, parents and children. So this is where they buy houses. Simple.&quot;</p>
<p>Actually, so they can have 1st concubine in Shanghai, 2nd concubine in  Beijing, and 3rd concubine in Hongkong, 4th concubine in Macau, 5th concubine in Shenzhen &#8230; the list is shorter than Tiger Wood&#039;s
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-60295">1</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/12/friday-free-for-all-93.html#comment-60275</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 12:25:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/?p=1541#comment-60275</guid>
		<description>Vancouver is not really good enough to be a resort town. But it&#039;s perfect to park your money here for laundering or simply to bring your family here for free education and health care, while attending to business abroad. 
Did you watch the CBC special on CAN vs. CHINA last week? 
The interviewed investors blatantly admitted that China is much better place when it comes to business opportunities right now, so that&#039;s where they stay, However, Canada is perfect for their wifes, parents and children. So this is where they buy houses. Simple. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-60275&quot;&gt;-1&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vancouver is not really good enough to be a resort town. But it&#039;s perfect to park your money here for laundering or simply to bring your family here for free education and health care, while attending to business abroad.</p>
<p>Did you watch the CBC special on CAN vs. CHINA last week?</p>
<p>The interviewed investors blatantly admitted that China is much better place when it comes to business opportunities right now, so that&#039;s where they stay, However, Canada is perfect for their wifes, parents and children. So this is where they buy houses. Simple.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-60275">-1</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Arwen</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/12/friday-free-for-all-93.html#comment-60271</link>
		<dc:creator>Arwen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 11:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/?p=1541#comment-60271</guid>
		<description>@ California:  
Wouldn&#039;t rich foreigners either be immigrating, be buying expensive pied a terre&#039;s to sit empty for private occasional use, or be investing to rent?  
 
In the investing to rent scenario, you&#039;re putting $300K down one way or another in leverage or monthly payments or whatever, so that the rents pay the carrying costs. And $300K is a huge opportunity cost if the rate of appreciation even slows, because rents here are not going to make anyone rich, when vacancy loss, cleaning, upkeep, etc. get factored in. There are far better investments, and rich people the world over are rich because they make good investments.  
 
If they&#039;re immigrating, pretty soon you&#039;ll run into the cost of living issue in Vancouver. It&#039;s an expensive place to do business year round. They become part of our numbers. And our numbers don&#039;t support these prices. 
 
So the third idea is only way the Rich Foreigner scenario might work - that Vancouver will become empty resort town. Resorts ARE always more expensive. 
 
Only Whistler, which is more obviously a resort town, has watched its prices suffer.  
 
Etc.  
 
Didn&#039;t Florida and Vegas each already have this conversation? The world outside of Canada is ON SALE, and there are many places where you can go, at any point in the year, and have sun. And if you&#039;re rich, you can bring friends and relatives to you. At Vancouver prices, you&#039;d still be saving money.  
 
I love Vancouver, but I&#039;d be hard pressed to say it&#039;s worth that much more as a second home when the world&#039;s your oyster than some places up the coast, or than Vegas, or Hawaii, or Spain, or France, or Australia, or even New York. And in New York, which is at our price point, the rents justify the prices, and even we could buy out in the boroughs. And I imagine I&#039;m the least wealthy bear here. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-60271&quot;&gt;4&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ California: </p>
<p>Wouldn&#039;t rich foreigners either be immigrating, be buying expensive pied a terre&#039;s to sit empty for private occasional use, or be investing to rent? </p>
<p>In the investing to rent scenario, you&#039;re putting $300K down one way or another in leverage or monthly payments or whatever, so that the rents pay the carrying costs. And $300K is a huge opportunity cost if the rate of appreciation even slows, because rents here are not going to make anyone rich, when vacancy loss, cleaning, upkeep, etc. get factored in. There are far better investments, and rich people the world over are rich because they make good investments. </p>
<p>If they&#039;re immigrating, pretty soon you&#039;ll run into the cost of living issue in Vancouver. It&#039;s an expensive place to do business year round. They become part of our numbers. And our numbers don&#039;t support these prices.</p>
<p>So the third idea is only way the Rich Foreigner scenario might work &#8211; that Vancouver will become empty resort town. Resorts ARE always more expensive.</p>
<p>Only Whistler, which is more obviously a resort town, has watched its prices suffer. </p>
<p>Etc. </p>
<p>Didn&#039;t Florida and Vegas each already have this conversation? The world outside of Canada is ON SALE, and there are many places where you can go, at any point in the year, and have sun. And if you&#039;re rich, you can bring friends and relatives to you. At Vancouver prices, you&#039;d still be saving money. </p>
<p>I love Vancouver, but I&#039;d be hard pressed to say it&#039;s worth that much more as a second home when the world&#039;s your oyster than some places up the coast, or than Vegas, or Hawaii, or Spain, or France, or Australia, or even New York. And in New York, which is at our price point, the rents justify the prices, and even we could buy out in the boroughs. And I imagine I&#039;m the least wealthy bear here.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-60271">4</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: The Pope</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/12/friday-free-for-all-93.html#comment-60261</link>
		<dc:creator>The Pope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 08:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/?p=1541#comment-60261</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-60260&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ta da&lt;/a&gt;: Just posted that! reload the main page to view it, or click here:  &lt;a href=&quot;http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/12/canadian-subprime-seizes-up.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/12/canadian-subpr...&lt;/a&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-60261&quot;&gt;2&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-60260" rel="nofollow">ta da</a>: Just posted that! reload the main page to view it, or click here:<br />
  <a href="http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/12/canadian-subprime-seizes-up.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/12/canadian-subpr" rel="nofollow">http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/12/canadian-subpr</a>&#8230;
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-60261">2</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: ta da</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/12/friday-free-for-all-93.html#comment-60260</link>
		<dc:creator>ta da</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 08:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Globe and Mail 
&quot;Orphaned Homeowners Face Foreclosure&quot;  
read the article - it will make your blood boil. 
Maybe a good topic for a post. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-60260&quot;&gt;4&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Globe and Mail</p>
<p>&quot;Orphaned Homeowners Face Foreclosure&quot; </p>
<p>read the article &#8211; it will make your blood boil.</p>
<p>Maybe a good topic for a post.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-60260">4</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: patriotz</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/12/friday-free-for-all-93.html#comment-60259</link>
		<dc:creator>patriotz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 07:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-60252&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;rp&lt;/a&gt;:  
&lt;blockquote&gt;Ms. Matthews is one of many Canadians being abandoned by a breed of alternative lenders that have stopped lending to customers, who, because of poor credit scores, lower-paying jobs, or minimal home equity, couldn&#039;t obtain financing from a traditional lender, such as a bank&lt;/blockquote&gt; 
These people had no business buying a house in the first place. 
&lt;blockquote&gt;Records obtained under the Access to Information Act show that a lobby group representing these lenders has warned the federal government that, unless taxpayers offer help, they will be forced to foreclose on as many as 30,000 homeowners over the next three years.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 
Isn&#039;t &quot;free enterprise&quot; great? 
 
If these &quot;homeowners&quot; could meet CMHC&#039;s (minimal) standards, any bank would be happy to refinance their mortgages. But since they can&#039;t, the borrowers and lenders want the taxpayers to bail them out. 
 
Well TFB. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-60259&quot;&gt;6&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-60252" rel="nofollow">rp</a>: </p>
<blockquote><p>Ms. Matthews is one of many Canadians being abandoned by a breed of alternative lenders that have stopped lending to customers, who, because of poor credit scores, lower-paying jobs, or minimal home equity, couldn&#039;t obtain financing from a traditional lender, such as a bank</p></blockquote>
<p>These people had no business buying a house in the first place.</p>
<blockquote><p>Records obtained under the Access to Information Act show that a lobby group representing these lenders has warned the federal government that, unless taxpayers offer help, they will be forced to foreclose on as many as 30,000 homeowners over the next three years.</p></blockquote>
<p>Isn&#039;t &quot;free enterprise&quot; great?</p>
<p>If these &quot;homeowners&quot; could meet CMHC&#039;s (minimal) standards, any bank would be happy to refinance their mortgages. But since they can&#039;t, the borrowers and lenders want the taxpayers to bail them out.</p>
<p>Well TFB.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-60259">6</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: california</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/12/friday-free-for-all-93.html#comment-60257</link>
		<dc:creator>california</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 22:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-60198&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;No Longer Looking&lt;/a&gt;: #54, I guess there&#039;s more than one way to look at this.  First, I don&#039;t know if there&#039;s a limit to the number of rich foreigners.  Especially if you think that their economies might continue to grow and ours stagnate.  If we were to just look at China as compared to 10 years ago, the number of wealthy have risen considerably.  As their economy grows stronger, the number of wealthy will grow along with it.  If you were to factor in forex, now is a bad time to convert to Canadian.  So over time, as foreigners are making their local currency, and as the Loonie falls in value, Canadian products will feel as though they are on discount. 
 
Keep in mind that China&#039;s population is also 39 times that of Canada.  In fact, pretty much every place in the world is more dense than Canada.  If foreigners are willing to live more densely, they can pool together resources to purchase.  We&#039;ve been hearing about this type of behaviour since 2006, so it&#039;s not out of the question. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-60257&quot;&gt;-10&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-60198" rel="nofollow">No Longer Looking</a>: #54, I guess there&#039;s more than one way to look at this.  First, I don&#039;t know if there&#039;s a limit to the number of rich foreigners.  Especially if you think that their economies might continue to grow and ours stagnate.  If we were to just look at China as compared to 10 years ago, the number of wealthy have risen considerably.  As their economy grows stronger, the number of wealthy will grow along with it.  If you were to factor in forex, now is a bad time to convert to Canadian.  So over time, as foreigners are making their local currency, and as the Loonie falls in value, Canadian products will feel as though they are on discount.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that China&#039;s population is also 39 times that of Canada.  In fact, pretty much every place in the world is more dense than Canada.  If foreigners are willing to live more densely, they can pool together resources to purchase.  We&#039;ve been hearing about this type of behaviour since 2006, so it&#039;s not out of the question.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-60257">-10</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: realpaul</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/12/friday-free-for-all-93.html#comment-60254</link>
		<dc:creator>realpaul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 21:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/?p=1541#comment-60254</guid>
		<description>Is this the real story behind the rise in unemployment stats. McJobs and hopelessness. Deja Vu of the 1980&#039;s 
  &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091207/ap_on_bi_ge/us_unemployment_holiday_jobs&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091207/ap_on_bi_ge/u...&lt;/a&gt;  
 
Sure theres a lot of good food in London, but buying a pound with a CDN suck buck means having to pay double price for everything. It sucks to be CDN travelling in Europe if you can&#039;t expense everything. I remember a time when CDN&#039;s dominated the travel scene in Europe. Now, they&#039;re a rare bird.  
 
This why I&#039;ve said that I suspect CDN internal policy is being affected by the type of travel CDN&#039;s do now, which is strictly third world on the cheap or stay home.Two generations of CDNs have been shut out of Europe because of the low dollar policy.  
 
These people are now bringing back the ideas that they picked up in the third world instead, devolving CDN society into a third world soup instead of to what was once a more enlightened and progtressive system. With the focus of CDN politics shifting more to the needs of the third world we are becoming a third world country ourselves. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-60254&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is this the real story behind the rise in unemployment stats. McJobs and hopelessness. Deja Vu of the 1980&#039;s</p>
<p>  <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091207/ap_on_bi_ge/us_unemployment_holiday_jobs" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091207/ap_on_bi_ge/u" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091207/ap_on_bi_ge/u</a>&#8230;  </p>
<p>Sure theres a lot of good food in London, but buying a pound with a CDN suck buck means having to pay double price for everything. It sucks to be CDN travelling in Europe if you can&#039;t expense everything. I remember a time when CDN&#039;s dominated the travel scene in Europe. Now, they&#039;re a rare bird. </p>
<p>This why I&#039;ve said that I suspect CDN internal policy is being affected by the type of travel CDN&#039;s do now, which is strictly third world on the cheap or stay home.Two generations of CDNs have been shut out of Europe because of the low dollar policy. </p>
<p>These people are now bringing back the ideas that they picked up in the third world instead, devolving CDN society into a third world soup instead of to what was once a more enlightened and progtressive system. With the focus of CDN politics shifting more to the needs of the third world we are becoming a third world country ourselves.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-60254">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: squidly77</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/12/friday-free-for-all-93.html#comment-60253</link>
		<dc:creator>squidly77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 19:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/?p=1541#comment-60253</guid>
		<description>from the government &lt;a href=&quot;http://albertabubbleblog.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;To You With Love&lt;/a&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-60253&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>from the government <a href="http://albertabubbleblog.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">To You With Love</a>
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-60253">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: rp</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2009/12/friday-free-for-all-93.html#comment-60252</link>
		<dc:creator>rp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 18:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Non-traditional lenders won&#039;t renew mortgages: 
  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/orphaned-homeowners-face-foreclosure/article1390721/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business...&lt;/a&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-60252&quot;&gt;6&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Non-traditional lenders won&#039;t renew mortgages:</p>
<p>  <a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/orphaned-homeowners-face-foreclosure/article1390721/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business" rel="nofollow">http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business</a>&#8230;
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-60252">6</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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