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	<title>Comments on: At home in the tulip patch</title>
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	<description>Bubble? What Bubble?</description>
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		<title>By: patriotz</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2010/01/at-home-in-the-tulip-patch.html#comment-62417</link>
		<dc:creator>patriotz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 05:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/?p=1647#comment-62417</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-62406&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blueskies&lt;/a&gt;:  
&lt;blockquote&gt;a SFH with a &#8220;mortgage helper&#8221; suite 
would have to be considered &#8220;subprime&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt; 
I wish people would stop using the term &quot;subprime&quot; in reference to Canada, period. My aversion to this is based on two reasons: 
 
1. It gives people the impression that the root cause of the US bust was not excessive prices (and by extension that excessive prices alone will not result in a  bust in Canada), and that the prices would have been sustainable if lending practices had been different. The US bust would have happened even if every single homeowner had paid cash. The prices were simply not sustainable. 
 
2. There is an organized campaign in the US to blame the bust on supposed government mandated lending to minorities, and &quot;subprime&quot; is used as a code phrase for this. 
 
Using the term &quot;subprime&quot; for Canadian mortgages (other than those actually called &quot;subprime&quot; by lenders such as Xceed), or for US mortgages in any other sense than that used by the US mortgage industry lends credibility to these fallacies IMHO. 
 
It&#039;s &lt;b&gt;all about the prices&lt;/b&gt;. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-62417&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-62406" rel="nofollow">blueskies</a>: </p>
<blockquote><p>a SFH with a &ldquo;mortgage helper&rdquo; suite</p>
<p>would have to be considered &ldquo;subprime&quot;</p></blockquote>
<p>I wish people would stop using the term &quot;subprime&quot; in reference to Canada, period. My aversion to this is based on two reasons:</p>
<p>1. It gives people the impression that the root cause of the US bust was not excessive prices (and by extension that excessive prices alone will not result in a  bust in Canada), and that the prices would have been sustainable if lending practices had been different. The US bust would have happened even if every single homeowner had paid cash. The prices were simply not sustainable.</p>
<p>2. There is an organized campaign in the US to blame the bust on supposed government mandated lending to minorities, and &quot;subprime&quot; is used as a code phrase for this.</p>
<p>Using the term &quot;subprime&quot; for Canadian mortgages (other than those actually called &quot;subprime&quot; by lenders such as Xceed), or for US mortgages in any other sense than that used by the US mortgage industry lends credibility to these fallacies IMHO.</p>
<p>It&#039;s <b>all about the prices</b>.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-62417">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: zug</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2010/01/at-home-in-the-tulip-patch.html#comment-62415</link>
		<dc:creator>zug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 00:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Off topic, thought you might enjoy. 
 
22-year-old, independent gangster arrested on drug, gun charges 
  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.vancouversun.com/news/year+independent+gangster+arrested+drug+charges/2470202/story.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.vancouversun.com/news/year+independent...&lt;/a&gt;  
 
It&#039;s good to see young people going into business for themselves.  Kids, you don&#039;t all need to be a corporate gangster and go to Wall St.  Think of the flexible work hours and lifestyle available to a mercenary for hire.  You&#039;ll have more time to spend with the family so they&#039;ll visit you in prison.  And won&#039;t you feel less guilty not knowing who your victims are? &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-62415&quot;&gt;3&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Off topic, thought you might enjoy.</p>
<p>22-year-old, independent gangster arrested on drug, gun charges</p>
<p>  <a href="http://www.vancouversun.com/news/year+independent+gangster+arrested+drug+charges/2470202/story.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.vancouversun.com/news/year+independent" rel="nofollow">http://www.vancouversun.com/news/year+independent</a>&#8230;  </p>
<p>It&#039;s good to see young people going into business for themselves.  Kids, you don&#039;t all need to be a corporate gangster and go to Wall St.  Think of the flexible work hours and lifestyle available to a mercenary for hire.  You&#039;ll have more time to spend with the family so they&#039;ll visit you in prison.  And won&#039;t you feel less guilty not knowing who your victims are?
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-62415">3</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: domus</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2010/01/at-home-in-the-tulip-patch.html#comment-62413</link>
		<dc:creator>domus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 00:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dave, 
take an average of starts in Vancouver metro for the past 5 years. Then take the total number of net immigrants over the same period. Put the two together. What do you get? 
Incidentally, in the same period RE prices exploded. Cannot (repeat: cannot!) be sustained. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-62413&quot;&gt;2&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave,</p>
<p>take an average of starts in Vancouver metro for the past 5 years. Then take the total number of net immigrants over the same period. Put the two together. What do you get?</p>
<p>Incidentally, in the same period RE prices exploded. Cannot (repeat: cannot!) be sustained.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-62413">2</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: observer</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2010/01/at-home-in-the-tulip-patch.html#comment-62412</link>
		<dc:creator>observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 00:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/?p=1647#comment-62412</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-62311&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;domus&lt;/a&gt;: The CMHC and current government policies could be viewed as a kind of predatory lending whereby borrowers are lured with initial low interest rates and end up paying big bucks because they overpaid on the asset and also when rates rise to historical levels. Mind you, Flaerty and Carney have echoed these concerns so I give them that. But it is like a drug dealer telling you that drugs are bad for you after they get you addicted. Too little too late. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-62412&quot;&gt;1&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-62311" rel="nofollow">domus</a>: The CMHC and current government policies could be viewed as a kind of predatory lending whereby borrowers are lured with initial low interest rates and end up paying big bucks because they overpaid on the asset and also when rates rise to historical levels. Mind you, Flaerty and Carney have echoed these concerns so I give them that. But it is like a drug dealer telling you that drugs are bad for you after they get you addicted. Too little too late.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-62412">1</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: rp</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2010/01/at-home-in-the-tulip-patch.html#comment-62411</link>
		<dc:creator>rp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/?p=1647#comment-62411</guid>
		<description>I was browsing craigslist and found something interesting. 
  &lt;a href=&quot;http://abbotsford.en.craigslist.ca/apa/1562349649.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://abbotsford.en.craigslist.ca/apa/1562349649...&lt;/a&gt;  
 
Looks pretty nice for $1400/mo.  Rented by developer.  What&#039;s the asking price?  Why it&#039;s $539,500. 
  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.idke.vancouver.com/realestatedisplay?realestate_id=59300&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.idke.vancouver.com/realestatedisplay?r...&lt;/a&gt;  
 
And property taxes?  About $3500 per year probably. 
  &lt;a href=&quot;http://investbc.gov.bc.ca/CommunityProfiles/Pages/CommunityInfo.aspx?page=taxation&amp;pCommunityID=493&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://investbc.gov.bc.ca/CommunityProfiles/Pages...&lt;/a&gt;  
 
Now I am no financial genius, but does this even cover the cost of funding?  What did this lot cost?  How much did it cost to build?  Maybe someone can fill in an educated guess.  Here it is on a map. 
  &lt;a href=&quot;http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=s_q&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;q=32495+Abercrombie,+mission,+bc&amp;sll=49.153531,-122.323322&amp;sspn=0.018665,0.045104&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;hq=32495+Abercrombie,&amp;hnear=Mission,+BC,+Canada&amp;ll=49.155243,-122.324953&amp;spn=0.018665,0.045104&amp;t=h&amp;z=15&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=s_q&amp;am...&lt;/a&gt;  
 
And who in their right mind would ever &quot;invest&quot; in this?  The yield is at best 2%.  What about taxes on the sale?  HST?  Even slightly higher interest rates? 
 
Even if some idiot buys this, the bubble is popping this spring.  There is just no way these numbers work or can work without riches falling from the sky.  Somebody out there has a balance sheet.  It&#039;s game over. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-62411&quot;&gt;1&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was browsing craigslist and found something interesting.</p>
<p>  <a href="http://abbotsford.en.craigslist.ca/apa/1562349649.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://abbotsford.en.craigslist.ca/apa/1562349649" rel="nofollow">http://abbotsford.en.craigslist.ca/apa/1562349649</a>&#8230;  </p>
<p>Looks pretty nice for $1400/mo.  Rented by developer.  What&#039;s the asking price?  Why it&#039;s $539,500.</p>
<p>  <a href="http://www.idke.vancouver.com/realestatedisplay?realestate_id=59300" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.idke.vancouver.com/realestatedisplay?r" rel="nofollow">http://www.idke.vancouver.com/realestatedisplay?r</a>&#8230;  </p>
<p>And property taxes?  About $3500 per year probably.</p>
<p>  <a href="http://investbc.gov.bc.ca/CommunityProfiles/Pages/CommunityInfo.aspx?page=taxation&amp;pCommunityID=493" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://investbc.gov.bc.ca/CommunityProfiles/Pages" rel="nofollow">http://investbc.gov.bc.ca/CommunityProfiles/Pages</a>&#8230;  </p>
<p>Now I am no financial genius, but does this even cover the cost of funding?  What did this lot cost?  How much did it cost to build?  Maybe someone can fill in an educated guess.  Here it is on a map.</p>
<p>  <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=s_q&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;q=32495+Abercrombie,+mission,+bc&amp;sll=49.153531,-122.323322&amp;sspn=0.018665,0.045104&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;hq=32495+Abercrombie,&amp;hnear=Mission,+BC,+Canada&amp;ll=49.155243,-122.324953&amp;spn=0.018665,0.045104&amp;t=h&amp;z=15" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&#038;source=s_q&#038;am" rel="nofollow">http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&#038;source=s_q&#038;am</a>&#8230;  </p>
<p>And who in their right mind would ever &quot;invest&quot; in this?  The yield is at best 2%.  What about taxes on the sale?  HST?  Even slightly higher interest rates?</p>
<p>Even if some idiot buys this, the bubble is popping this spring.  There is just no way these numbers work or can work without riches falling from the sky.  Somebody out there has a balance sheet.  It&#039;s game over.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-62411">1</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: observer</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2010/01/at-home-in-the-tulip-patch.html#comment-62410</link>
		<dc:creator>observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/?p=1647#comment-62410</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-62393&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dave&lt;/a&gt;: 50,000 empty condos would do the trick. You haven&#039;t accounted for current slack in the market. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-62410&quot;&gt;1&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-62393" rel="nofollow">Dave</a>: 50,000 empty condos would do the trick. You haven&#039;t accounted for current slack in the market.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-62410">1</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: gvrdpropertyowner</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2010/01/at-home-in-the-tulip-patch.html#comment-62408</link>
		<dc:creator>gvrdpropertyowner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/?p=1647#comment-62408</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-62393&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dave&lt;/a&gt;:  Even though they are strata titled, most of the recently constructed buildings in Yaletown--- and many suburban buildings such as the Silhouette in Burnaby--- are predominantly occupied by renters--- with a 70% renter occupied to 30% owner occupied ratio not uncommon.  
 
I believe that most individuals in the property management industry would describe the market as soft at best. 
 
But you don&#039;t have to take my word for it; just do a little empirical research, and walk around and look at all the &quot;for rent&quot; signs... go talk to the building managers: ask them if they think there will be upward pressure on rents this year?       
 
Actually , the whole year (2009) was, for the most part, soft for the rental market: Two reasons mainly, first time home buyers and the unemployed.  
 
I&#039;m not sure where most of the bulls thought the first time buyers were coming from, but it was renters leaving their $1000 a  month suites to purchase equivalent properties for $350,000...we&#039;ll have to wait and see if works out for them. &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-62408&quot;&gt;2&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-62393" rel="nofollow">Dave</a>:  Even though they are strata titled, most of the recently constructed buildings in Yaletown&#8212; and many suburban buildings such as the Silhouette in Burnaby&#8212; are predominantly occupied by renters&#8212; with a 70% renter occupied to 30% owner occupied ratio not uncommon. </p>
<p>I believe that most individuals in the property management industry would describe the market as soft at best.</p>
<p>But you don&#039;t have to take my word for it; just do a little empirical research, and walk around and look at all the &quot;for rent&quot; signs&#8230; go talk to the building managers: ask them if they think there will be upward pressure on rents this year?      </p>
<p>Actually , the whole year (2009) was, for the most part, soft for the rental market: Two reasons mainly, first time home buyers and the unemployed. </p>
<p>I&#039;m not sure where most of the bulls thought the first time buyers were coming from, but it was renters leaving their $1000 a  month suites to purchase equivalent properties for $350,000&#8230;we&#039;ll have to wait and see if works out for them.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-62408">2</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Drachen</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2010/01/at-home-in-the-tulip-patch.html#comment-62407</link>
		<dc:creator>Drachen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That looked like a Haiku for a second there &#039;skies.  Makes you wonder what kind of housing haikus the people on here could come up with. 
 
Buying real estate 
in the best city on earth 
makes Rennie happy. 
 
Distilling wisdom 
in the form of Haiku 
is a waste of time. 
 
:)  g&#039;night everyone &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-62407&quot;&gt;1&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That looked like a Haiku for a second there &#039;skies.  Makes you wonder what kind of housing haikus the people on here could come up with.</p>
<p>Buying real estate</p>
<p>in the best city on earth</p>
<p>makes Rennie happy.</p>
<p>Distilling wisdom</p>
<p>in the form of Haiku</p>
<p>is a waste of time.</p>
<p>  <img src='http://vancouvercondo.info/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   g&#039;night everyone
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-62407">1</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: blueskies</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2010/01/at-home-in-the-tulip-patch.html#comment-62406</link>
		<dc:creator>blueskies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 21:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/?p=1647#comment-62406</guid>
		<description>a SFH with a &quot;mortgage helper&quot; suite 
would have to be considered &quot;subprime&quot; 
if this route is the only way the buyer 
can qualify..... made in Canada eh? &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-62406&quot;&gt;3&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a SFH with a &quot;mortgage helper&quot; suite</p>
<p>would have to be considered &quot;subprime&quot;</p>
<p>if this route is the only way the buyer</p>
<p>can qualify&#8230;.. made in Canada eh?
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-62406">3</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Drachen</title>
		<link>http://vancouvercondo.info/2010/01/at-home-in-the-tulip-patch.html#comment-62405</link>
		<dc:creator>Drachen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 21:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vancouvercondo.info/?p=1647#comment-62405</guid>
		<description>I just stumbled across a nice video explanation of critical thinking.  I&#039;m sure most of you are here because you already have pretty good critical thinking skills but it&#039;s an interesting explanation anyhow. 
 
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.videosift.com/video/Critical-Thinking&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Critical Thinking&lt;/a&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-62405&quot;&gt;2&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just stumbled across a nice video explanation of critical thinking.  I&#039;m sure most of you are here because you already have pretty good critical thinking skills but it&#039;s an interesting explanation anyhow.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.videosift.com/video/Critical-Thinking" rel="nofollow">Critical Thinking</a>
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-62405">2</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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