Friday Free-for-all!

Alright!  The end of the week means it’s time to do our weekly economic news roundup and open topic discussion.  Here are a few recent stories I’ve noticed:

-New mortgage rules to create short term boom?
-Danielle Park on new mortgage rules (video)
-Record household debt not a crisis
-Your bubble is my debt burden
-Canada not immune to downward housing pressure
-Inflation rate jumps to 1.9% in January
-US Jobless claims unexpectedly jump
-Interest rates still headed higher

So what are you seeing out there? Post your news links, thoughts and anecdotes here and have a golden weekend!

178 Responses to “Friday Free-for-all!”

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    "Your bubble is my debt burden"

    Ottawa’s new plan to save us from our own bad house-buying decisions is a three-pronged approach.

    McNair's article is ridiculous. He's talking as though Flaherty's minor tightening of qualifications for CMHC insurance represents interference in the mortgage market, when in fact it's the opposite – a reduction in government, i.e. CMHC, interference in the market.

    There are no restrictions whatsoever on mortgage lending by non-bank, non-insured institutions.

    So how come such institutions are getting out of the business? How come the truly free market doesn't want to get involved in mortgage lending?

    All in all, I don’t think the moves are particularly disruptive, like a change to the minimum down payment would be. But it’s clear that the government now feels that it’s personally responsible in overseeing the stability of the housing market, a plan that seems contradictory to the expected HST effect

    "Now"? The Cons have been manipulating the housing market since they got into office.

    It's the existence of the CMHC itself that is disruptive.

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    Wreckonomics Says:
    2

    Those vancouver sun editorials are getting more and more rediculous (debt not a crisis). They say that comparing household debt to income is meaningless and debt should be compared to household assets. That works great unless your highly leveraged on an overpriced asset – house or condo in this case, since it's actually your income that is going to have to pay off that debt.

    Love the irony of a bankrupt publisher (canwest) telling people debt is no problem. These guys are obviously financial wizards.

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    @Wreckonomics:

    They say that comparing household debt to income is meaningless and debt should be compared to household assets.

    That's entirely correct, as long as you use the fundamental value of the assets, i.e. based on the income which they produce (which in the case of a house is its rental value), not the market price, which is unrealizable by owners in aggregate. Because the interest on the debt has to be paid from income, which does include income from assets.

    And what do you get when you do it that way? People are underwater, big time.

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    @patriotz:

    BTW that's not a meant as a correction to the previous post, I'm just saying the same thing in a more analytical way.

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    That Vancouver Sun article is wrong in so many ways I don't know where to start. It's propaganda, and like their other propaganda, it has no name on it it and no comments section.

    "Debt is OK, nothing to see here….",

    " As long as you can afford the monthly payments, why worry?", "Let's take an example of governments metrics, as they are the golden standard of metrics".

    I like what wreckonomics said, it is so true:

    "Love the irony of a bankrupt publisher (canwest) telling people debt is no problem. These guys are obviously financial wizards."

    So this is what we do here…. We drown in debt, go bankrupt and start fresh, no harm done.

    Maybe we need to copy Dubai and institute debtor's prisons again.

    Why are we frugal? Why do we save? What's the point? This is not how it's done here. I am an old fashioned fool.

    North America can be called "The Phoenix Society". Burn yourself and be reborn, no harm done. No consequences to living beyond you means.

    Regards

    arit

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    @Dave:

    Yeah, the 'offshore' component of the local real estate market could go from 1.5% to 1.6 or even 1.7%! That extra .2% could really boost the market!

    Get off it Dave.

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    @patriotz:

    Completely agree with you, Patriotz!

    McNair is very mistaken in suggesting that the government is introducing more regulation. In fact, it is reducing distortion by (marginally) restricting access to the mother of all distortions: the CMHC!

    It really is unnerving how most commentators consider limits to what can be borrowed through the CMHC as regulatory distortion! As if the CMHC was a private market participant, pricing risk according to standard private practices.

    The CMHC is the distortions. Limiting access to it removes the distortions.

    The CMHC is the purest form of government meddling with free markets. Anything restricting this massive interference should be considered a pro-market activity.

    It's that simple, really. McNair should stop writing such nonsense.

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    @Dave:

    If the weather stays like this, there just might be an uptick in foreign purchases of condos.

    ********

    I hope so! I'd love to see them buy then find out how crappy the weather really is here. It will only increase the overall discount when they sell during the crash.

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    @Drachen:

    I never claimed it would boost the market. Why don't you get off it?

    Anybody know how long the waits are for the zip line?

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    Alternative Investments To RE – Canadians Know Less Than Monkeys About TFSAs

    http://wp.me/pcq1o-wM

    Results of a Dec 2009 poll, from 'Canadians fail TFSA test', The Globe and Mail, 18 Feb 2010:
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/per
    A Mackenzie Investments TFSA test, conducted in December by Leger Marketing, asked 1,506 adult Canadians five basic true or false questions about Canada's newest investment account. Of those polled, 44 per cent answered three or more correctly, 8 per cent answered all five questions correctly and 28 per cent got them all wrong. … 68 per cent of respondents haven't opened a TFSA. When asked why, 59 per cent cited a lack of money while 42 per cent said it's because they don't know enough about them.

    VREAA comment:

    For many Canadians, real estate is their best investment. There are three reasons for that: (1.) We’ve just been through an extraordinary bull-become-bubble up-leg in RE, (2.) there is forced leverage inherent in RE ownership (which works spectacularly well through up-legs) and, (3.) for many, RE is their only investment of any consequence. As a group, ‘Boomers’ are outrageously overdependent on their RE holdings, and there is a dire need for the entire population to become more savvy with regard to other options for saving and investing. Tax-free savings accounts (TFSAs) were introduced more than a year ago and very widely publicized. A survey conducted in December 2009 shows Canadians woefully ignorant of this useful instrument. A group of monkeys throwing darts at the answer-sheet would have scored an average of 50% on this true/false quiz. A group of 1,506 Canadians scored an average of 41%. -vreaa

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    @Dave:

    "I never claimed it would boost the market. Why don’t you get off it?"

    No? Then why did you bring it up at all if it's not relevant to the discussion?

    Get serious, you were implying it would boost the market, then when you realized you'd been busted in an untenable position you disowned your weak-ass argument.

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    The only reason government loves to use debt to GDP over debt to income or interest to income or similar measures is because GDP used to be a much larger number which helped to make the ratio look small. It made deficit spending and taking on extra debt more palatable to the general masses who just can't seem to get past we want lower taxes, don't cut any services that I use, and surplus is bad/over taxation! Unfortunately government debt has been exploding and debt to GDP ratio no longer looked small like it used to be. Pretty soon we might be talking about debt to total asset level since total asset level is a higher number than GDP.

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    Some Real Estate agents are using the new CMHC regs as another lure for FTBs. This from an ad I saw on Craigslist:

    "Hurry on this awesome home New Banking Regulations through CMHC coming into effect April 19, 2010."

    Phew, anything to make a sale…

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    40 Year Amortization Says:
    14

    I don't know why everyone assumes the new mortgage requirements will result in a short term boom. Everyone, including the experts and economists, thought the elimination of 0 down /40 year amortizations in October 2008 would lead to a crazy rush to buy.

    However, the "big rush" never materialized. Granted, we were heading into the recession, but buyers had about 6 months notice of the impending tightening regulation, unlike the 2 months notice for these changes.

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    Not much of a name Says:
    15

    @Dave:

    "I never claimed it would boost the market. Why don’t you get off it?"

    Talk about f'ing semantics. You brought the issue up with the possibility of an uptick.

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    @40 Year Amortization Bust:

    Its all marketing spin. Why would someone buy now if they new there was going to be an even greater chance of lower prices after April 19th.

    Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. Works better on the ignorant and scared. But people are getting so tapped out and so much future demand has been used up, especially in YVR, most of us would bet that a mini-boom wont happen.

    I would put these new rules in the same category as the elimination of the 0/40 in the sense that it applies mostly to those that are on or near teh cusp of being able to purchase RE. And as I said, I believe most of those people already took the dive.

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    @SD92129:

    Why would someone buy now if they new there was going to be an even greater chance of lower prices after April 19th.

    People who can figure that out wouldn't be buying anyway. The realtors are just trying to rope in as many fools as they can before the rope gets shorter.

    There will probably be a small rush to buy before prices go down, excuse me, before mortgages become harder to get. And then we can get on with the bust.

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    White Payer Says:
    18

    I find it funny, that if you live elsewhere in Canada, these "new rules" really aren't all that restrictive. I mean, if you want to buy a house in Ottawa, I'm pretty sure you will qualify for the "new" mortgage just as easily as you would today, provided you earn a regular salary and have a decent credit rating.

    It's just here in this strange microcosm of ours where theses small changes mean a difference between financial life or death for so many.

    We are but a speck of dust on the map of the universe and you can be sure nobody will shed a tear when "the best place on earth"TM goes bust.

    Still, I'm sure bulls around here are hoping for all sorts of countermeasures to be deployed to save their skin and our fake "economy". The thing is, there won't be any, since there's simply no money left after the Olympic fiasco to help anyone, including -or perhaps especially- the speculators.

    Sacrifices will have to be made and there will be plenty of blood in the streets once this gets underway.

    And you can take that to the bank!

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    Anonymous Says:
    19

    White Payer:

    Good point. And to go a bit further, if you cannot afford an average home with 10% down for 30 years on a 5 year term in Ottawa you definitely have no business getting into real estate at all, beacause you're either unemployed or really, really bad with money.

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    40 Year Amortization Says:
    20

    #22

    The measures were not designed to target the rest of Canada. They were openly designed, in part, to target speculation in the big bubble cities.

    As for "bullish" measures that could be implemented, do not think for one moment that the feds and province have used up all their ammunition. Did you see the interest rate cuts coming? The change in FTB RRSP withdrawals? How about the renovation credit? Or the recent provincial property tax deferral program? Did any of the bears?

    If we are following the US, do you not foresee first time buyer credits? Do you not see banks providing mortgage relief to prevent foreclosures?

    If anything, Canada has has an opportunity to see what works and what doesn't around the world. They can keep implementing these types of measures for years and create the slowest deflate in history. You could be waiting another decade before "fundamentals" align with prices.

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    Wwhite Payer Says:
    21

    @40 Year Amortization Bust:

    "If we are following the US, do you not foresee first time buyer credits? Do you not see banks providing mortgage relief to prevent foreclosures?"

    Still, none of the above were able to prevent the monumental RE collapse down south…

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    White Payer Says:
    22

    Oh, and BTW, I'm not waiting for anything. Merely looking forward to enjoying the upcoming horror show.

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    #24: "ou could be waiting another decade before fundamentals” align with prices."

    You mean 10 years of underperformance of RE relative to other ways to save your money. Good outlook…

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    In defense of Flahertey's contention that there is no RE bubble in Canada, he's right. There's really no such thing as a national RE bubble because there isn't a national market. Even in the US, what you had was a lot of local bubbles all fueled in part by the global credit bubble and the lack of regulation on lending and securitization. But the individual markets were all independent, and huge areas of the country never experienced a real bubble.

    In Canada, we have the exact same situation. Places like Toronto and Calgary are in a bit of a bubble, but it's really only BC that is in full-on speculative insanity. And if you don't know by now that Ottawa doesn't care about BC, my telling you again won't help.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    25

    @40 Year Amortization Bust:

    The measures were not designed to target the rest of Canada. They were openly designed, in part, to target speculation in the big bubble cities.

    You sound a bit confused. Second sentence seems to contradict the first. Only one big bubble city here. The rest are in Alberta and Ontario.

    Anyway as I have said before, IMHO this measure is ALL about capping the price increases in the Greater Toronto Area. If they were allowed to get any higher the region would inevitably correct in a bust comparable to (or bigger than) that of the early 90's, which would be disastrous politically and have major macroeconomic effects due to its size. Now certainly prices are going to go down in the GTA from today but if now is the top we might not see a bloodbath but a bear market more like Vancouver in the late 90's. Just maybe.

    But of course real prices in Vancouver are WAY higher than in Toronto or any previous peak here, and we are headed for a bust that will smash the provincial economy for a decade. But there are only a handful of seats which the Cons might lose to the Liberals (which is what matters most) here, so they are willing to let BC burn as long as the fire in Ontario gets put out.

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    Some of you might have read the headlines about deflation, or contained inflation, in the US reported this morning as evidence that an accomodative monetary policy is granted and should be pursued.

    Governments seem nervous about the public perceiving fast price rises. Politicized economists like Krugman even go so far to claim we should not worry about inflation even if it went up a lot.

    Well, chatter online seems to suggest that a very strange mistake is behind the very low inflation numbers reported today by the BLS and Feds.

    Here is the MTGM blog take on it:

    A math problem at the Labor Department?

    http://themessthatgreenspanmade.blogspot.com/2010

    Now, these guys have PhDs and can make sums, right? Any political input to 'massage' the data a bit? You just have to wonder in these crazy times.

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    @Aleks:

    "In defense of Flahertey’s contention that there is no RE bubble in Canada, he’s right. There’s really no such thing as a national RE bubble because there isn’t a national market. "

    No, if your analysis is correct (and I believe it is) he's still wrong, but now he gets it wrong twice!

    First, his grammar is terrible or he's intentionally misleading Canadians, if you are correct, the proper expression should be "there are no Real Estate bubbles"

    Secondly by saying, "..there is no real estate bubble…", he's certainly implying that the market is fine. No looming crashes to worry about here! Whether or not there's a semantic case to be made to give him room to weasel out of his statement it does not make him correct to say it.

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    Flaherty knows how things really are. He cannot afford to put it in plain English. This government is largely responsible for the mess the RE market is in. They are market manipulators, despite their free-market credentials.

    Abolish the CMHC!

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    If you have doubts about my previous post (conservatives as market manipulators and regulators) here is some more evidence just off the press from the Wall Street Journal:

    * FEBRUARY 19, 2010, 10:41 A.M. ET

    CMHC Buys C$1.4B Of Mortgages Friday

    http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100219-7088

    Apparently, this "…reverse auction is part of a Canadian government program to ease credit conditions."

    Some free market, uh? Binding the hands of the CMHC is equivalent to removing government intervention.

    The CMHC is root cause of this big mess, the mother of all distortions!

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    @Drachen:

    This is a real estate blog is it not? It will be interesting to see to what extent the Olympics boost foreign sales. Tens of millions of people are seeing our city every night. If only a fraction become interested, it will lead to higher sales. Will it be at such a level that it brings significant upside to our market? I don't think so, but we shall see.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    31

    @domus:

    Governments seem nervous about the public perceiving fast price rises.

    What's getting more expensive in the US these days, other than oil (which is still way below peak), and health insurance (which is driven by factors completely unrelated to the macro economy)?

    Note that by far the biggest component in US CPI (as it is here) is rent, and that's falling in nominal terms in many US markets.

    Both the Fed and the bond markets seem to be expecting inflation to go up by a point or two. Now you may not trust the Fed, but the bond market is not trying to fool anyone. If they're wrong it's not because they want to get it wrong.

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    @patriotz:

    Well, that's one take. The other take is that prices tend to be affected by volatile items like energy and food. This might play tricks on both governments and bond traders. That's why there is so much fear about resource prices picking up.

    I don't know where things are heading, I just find it funny that, in a time of exceptional monetary stimulus and priting of paper money, people can argue that all this liquidity will not result in higher prices down the line.

    I guess we disagree on the final outcome? In any case, the BLS still seems to have made a huge mistake in computing the 'official' CPI figure (see post above). Back of the envelope calculations show that, once corrected, it is no longer true that core inflation is negative. Amateurish? Unlucky? Deliberate? Pick you poison.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    33

    @40 Year Amortization Bust:

    If anything, Canada has has an opportunity to see what works and what doesn’t around the world.

    And the results are in:

    What works: nothing.

    What doesn't: everything.

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    @Dave:

    "I never claimed it would boost the market. Why don’t you get off it?"

    So you're saying you never claimed it would boost the market before…

    "Will it be at such a level that it brings significant upside to our market? I don’t think so, but we shall see."

    And now you're saying well maybe it will boost the market?

    No wonder you can't come up with a rational bull argument. You can't even agree with yourself!

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    pricedoutfornow Says:
    35

    Sure, people might think Vancouver is a beautiful place after seeing it on TV, or visiting. However, I personally would run in the other direction once I had a look at house prices. That's enough to scare anyone off.

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    Starving Artist Says:
    36

    Let's have a look at Stockholm…

    House Price to Income Ratio: 6.33

    Mortgage as Percentange of Income: 52.21%

    Loan Affordability Index: 1.92

    Price to Rent Ratio – City Centre: 49.83

    Price to Rent Ratio – Outside of Centre: 34.13

    Gross Rental Yield (City Centre): 2.01%

    Gross Rental Yield (Outside of Centre): 2.93%

    And now Vancouver…

    House Price to Income Ratio: 9.92

    Mortgage as Percentange of Income: 78.59%

    Loan Affordability Index: 1.27

    Price to Rent Ratio – City Centre: 20.46

    Price to Rent Ratio – Outside of Centre: 21.00

    Gross Rental Yield (City Centre): 4.89%

    Gross Rental Yield (Outside of Centre): 4.76%

    Yup, sounds like a great deal for your flight attendant!

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    Starving Artist Says:
    37

    Some more stats…

    Stockholm

    Rent Per Month [Edit]

    Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre 422.07 CAD

    Apartment (1 bedroom) Outside of Centre 409.57 CAD

    Apartment (2 bedrooms) in City Centre 759.47 CAD

    Apartment (2 bedrooms) Outside of Centre 738.87 CAD

    Buy Apartment Price [Edit]

    Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment in City Centre 5,046.54 CAD

    Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment Outside of Centre 3,358.49 CAD

    Salaries And Financing [Edit]

    Median Monthly Disposable Salary (After Tax) 3,322.05 CAD

    Mortgage Interest Rate in Percentanges (%), Yearly For USD / EUR 5.50

    Vancouver

    Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre 1,649.18 CAD

    Apartment (1 bedroom) Outside of Centre 1,390.62 CAD

    Apartment (2 bedrooms) in City Centre 2,255.18 CAD

    Apartment (2 bedrooms) Outside of Centre 1,606.76 CAD

    Buy Apartment Price [Edit]

    Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment in City Centre 7,124.76 CAD

    Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment Outside of Centre 5,754.70 CAD

    Salaries And Financing [Edit]

    Median Monthly Disposable Salary (After Tax) 3,244.61 CAD

    Mortgage Interest Rate in Percentanges (%), Yearly For USD / EUR 5.00

    Last update : January, 2010

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    Anonymous Says:
    38

    "Yup, sounds like a great deal for your flight attendant!"

    And we all know that those highly trained and educated flight attendants have the large salaries to afford living here…

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    @pricedoutfornow: They will be in for a surprise that it cost 5 times more for a similar house here!

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    @pricedoutfornow:

    Money isn't always a factor for those looking to buy vacation homes. There are lots of people with lots of money.

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    Anonymous Says:
    41

    If anything, Canada has has an opportunity to see what works and what doesn’t around the world.

    And the results are in:

    What works: nothing.

    What doesn’t: everything.

    **************

    Hey Patriotz,

    You looking forward to continue renting for another 5-10 years?

    Just because such measures may not stop a reversion to the economic fundamentals does not mean that their implementation cannot prolong the deflation for a very long time. Throw in the fact that prices are often sticky on the way down, and you potentially have a very long deflation period.

    Lets see, the USA had a 5-6 year run up, and we are in year 4 of price slides with more to come…

    Vancouver has had a 8 year run up so its not inconceivable that our slide takes many many years.

    I know that you and everyone else would rapid price deflation, but that may not be in the cards…renting on the other hand, until prices revert to economic fundamentals, might be for a very long time….

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    Dave, yes, there are. And they also tend to be financially literate.

    Btw, on the question of inflation/deflation: don't forget to factor in the massive destruction of credit that has occurred over the past 2 years. This also impacts on "money" circulating and thus on inflation/deflation.

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    anonymous: "You looking forward to continue renting for another 5-10 years?"

    ————————

    This wasn't addressed to me, but I'll answer: sure, why not? As long as it is much cheaper than owning and allows me to save lots of money each month as RE prices slowly fall (as per your scenario). Renting rocks, as it is risk free if RE prices are declining.

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    @Anonymous:

    "Vancouver has had a 8 year run up so its not inconceivable that our slide takes many many years."

    Vancouver's actually had a 25 year run-up but bubbles are rarely symmetrical. The rapidity of the fall is generally based on three factors;

    1) The ratio of peak prices to fundamental prices. (higher peak generally means a faster fall)

    2) Government intervention.

    3) The commodity being traded (obviously housing will fall more slowly than Bre-X)

    You won't find any credible reference to the length of the run-up as a factor in the length of the fall anywhere.

    Because it doesn't correlate at all.

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    @domus:

    I just find it funny that, in a time of exceptional monetary stimulus and priting of paper money, people can argue that all this liquidity will not result in higher prices down the line.

    The money supply is increasing because people are spending less (i.e. the velocity decreased). It does not necessarily mean future inflation. To wit, what will the government and central banks do if money velocity starts to increase?

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    Of course theres fewer EI recipients. They have all run out of weeks. What propaganda.

    http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Number+beneficiaries+falls/2586824/story.html

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    @jesse:

    Correct. But money supply you can control a bit; velocity? not so much. This is exactly the hayek/Friedman argument and the basic idea behind the 'quantity theory'.

    By the way, here is some update on 'The Mess that Greenspan Made' blog:

    http://themessthatgreenspanmade.blogspot.com/2010

    This is what Tim Iacono had to say about this sudden interest from the BLS:

    "…I've not heard from anybody on this subject yet but I did go through some calculations with some of the other categories in the most recent inflation data and, as far as I can tell, they've got an error in today's report and, despite what you may have read in the mainstream media and elsewhere, monthly core inflation did not decline for the first time since 1982…"

    Well, I guess it will be fun to see what happens when (inevitably) the velocity of money picks up in the not so distant future. Will they drain liquidity out of the system? I doubt it.

    It's nice to live in la-la-land and believe all that politicians say.

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    Wreckonomics Says:
    48

    @patriotz: Good point, but we all know they weren’t refering to fundamental rental value, that’s the old way of thinking.

    Things are different this time.

    :roll:

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    vantownsucks Says:
    49

    I was talking to a sweedish flight attendant at the Irish House last night and I’m not kidding she was considering buying a condo in downtown Vancouver. She said she loves Vancouver. I was shocked I must say. I didn’t try to talk her out of it because it’d be nice to have a swedish booty call on hand.

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    @vantownsucks:

    If the weather stays like this, there just might be an uptick in foreign purchases of condos.

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    @domus:

    "Will they drain liquidity out of the system? I doubt it."

    If we go by the long term government bond yields, I don't think investors see inflation as a pressing concern.

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    @jesse:

    I think it was yesterday that I posted a Bloomberg about the unusual steepening in the bond yield curves. Older maturities are going way up.

    Another hint: most pension funds are bumping up their holdings of indexed bonds, sometimes doubling or trebling exposure.

    Maybe Krugman is right about deflation…and maybe Spain will win the Hockey gold medal.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    53

    @Anonymous:

    You looking forward to continue renting for another 5-10 years?

    You mean renting out my capital for about 5% yield while homeowners rent out theirs for 2.5% and take a capital loss to boot?

    You bet.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    54

    @logic:

    Renting rocks, as it is risk free if RE prices are declining.

    The risk of renting has nothing to do with RE prices, because you never have to buy.

    The risk is of increased rents. And that risk has never been lower than today during the post-WWII era.

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    @Dave:

    Money isn’t always a factor for those looking to buy vacation homes. There are lots of people with lots of money.

    ———–

    Isn't is ironic that none of them live in Vancouver, cause if they did, they wouldn't have a lot of money.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    56

    @BB:

    There are lots of people with lots of money.

    Compared to the number of properties available for sale, no there aren't.

    But the Olympic Effect is going to make them lose interest in everywhere but here, right?

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    57

    @patriotz:

    Sorry BB, of course the comment was from Dave.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    58

    @Starving Artist:

    Stockholm

    Rent Per Month [Edit]

    Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre 422.07 CAD

    Apartment (1 bedroom) Outside of Centre 409.57 CAD

    Apartment (2 bedrooms) in City Centre 759.47 CAD

    Apartment (2 bedrooms) Outside of Centre 738.87 CAD

    Give us a break. Stockholm is one of the most expensive cities in Europe. Those cannot possibly be market rents. Maybe you mistook weekly for monthly?

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    Neigbour Says:
    59

    @Dave:

    Dave, when I watch the American Idol show and movies beside hundreds of millions people around the globe I don't run to buy a house in Hollywood even I know I could get a good one for the fraction of the price of some shithole here in Vancouver. Please stop acting like toddler.

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    stagnate Says:
    60

    i would agree with dave that potentially the olympics might be a positive for the market. what are the odds that we would get a week of pure sunshine in february? i wouldn't have predicted the carnival atmosphere downtown right where the media are. the city looks highly desirable in one of the worlds most desirable countries. the tv ratings have been massive. choppy start but the last few days have been best case senario. still a week to go though.

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    permabulltime Says:
    61

    Renting might be risk free but it sure sucks balls. Rentals are piece of crap dumps with no dishwashers, garberators, 1970s decors and just generally smell really bad. So sure you can save money if you rent maybe but you can also save money by eating at McDonalds instead of Gotham steakhouse. If you're a loser the choice is made for you though like so many on this site.

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    No Longer Looking Says:
    62

    @permabulltime: If that's what you can afford to rent, I'd hate to see what you can afford to buy.

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    @Neigbour:

    How many people went to Hawaii because of Magnum PI? How many of those ended up buying? Although only a small percent, it adds up to big numbers. If only 0.00001% of Olympic viewers purchased something in town, that would make for big sales.

    Again, I'm not saying it is going to sway the market, but I would be willing to bet foreign sales jump dramatically over the next 12 months. Should be interesting.

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    stagnate Says:
    64

    dave says:

    Again, I’m not saying it is going to sway the market, but I would be willing to bet foreign sales jump dramatically over the next 12 months. Should be interesting.

    i don't know about foreign sales, but in migration of young people might bounce. two vancouver negatives have been shattered, that it rains all the time and is a crap place to party. i also think the economy is the shits for young people accross the country for the foreseeable future, increasing the mobility motivation.

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    24 @40 Year Amortization Bust: "They can keep implementing these types of measures for years and create the slowest deflate in history."

    Indeed. They can spend every last cent of public money putting as many people as possible into houses that are as overpriced as possible. The question is, why would you want to live in such a country? It would have no economy whatsoever! The quicker the bust, the better for all involved. See: Japan.

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    bestplaceonmeth Says:
    66

    @Dave: #13

    >>>Anybody know how long the waits are for the zip line?<<<

    About 6 hours or so, roughly the same length as one of your cheerleading practices.

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    hey dave.

    remember simon whitfield taking gold in 2000 summer olympics (well technichally winter in sydney) and seeing glorious sunshine, 30 degs temp and world class structure opera house in background? did you go buy condo in sydney? and you think these badly run games will attract those watching on tv at home to the most over valued real estate on earth? you are nothing more than a troll. go load up on vancouver condos before the rest of the broke ass world does.

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    @bestplaceonmeth:

    Thanks. I don't have the time for that.

    I'll pay you to wait in line for me. Sound good?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @stagnate:

    I agree. I also think that mobility of young workers will continue to increase over time with southern BC being the most popular destination. The Olympics will probably increase that trend as well. Half the country watched the hockey game last night.

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    Ulsterman Says:
    70

    I think very few people from overseas are likely to be running out to buy here. I presume that if they are here for the games then they are extremely interested in winter sports and therefore probably knew all about Vancouver/Whistler long ago.

    I also think that when they look up at the endless towers and then realise the simple mind-boggling prices, any purchase interest will soon evaporate.

    That said, anyone who has been about town in the past few days cannot help but be impressed by the city. I just cycled all around False Creek, Yaletown, Robson etc and the place was bursting with happy, shiny people.

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    DaRennieGuarentee Says:
    71

    #67, please stop with the negative speculation. Sydney does not have mountains, 365 days of rain, crack heads on every corner, border, etc restricting its growth and is so far away from the rich asians. Please do not compare the crap shack what is Sydney town to the world class address of False Creek Olympic City Vancouver. Thats right folks, after all this sunshine, my sales have cranked by 50%. Thank you Al Gore and global warming.

    But hey, someone forgot to tell the world it is normal in most cities to have more than 3 days of continiuous sunshine, even in the winter months.

    Thanks for listening folks. Please buy pre-owned Olympic condo, I have to pay for my boy toys in Mykonos.

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    Disbelief Says:
    72

    Who in their right mind would choose Vancouver over SanDiego or Malibu or Beverly Hills. Even Miami offers much more value than Vancouver. Once the party is over we may get a boost in tourism but seeing an "uptick" doubtful. Any smart investor recognizes opportunity and value something better realized in cities that have dropped in value. Kind of makes sense that most of the recent buyers are made up of FTB. Things always end badly for people that overpay.

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    WORLDS GREATEST LOVE Says:
    73

    @permabulltime:

    Rentals are piece of crap dumps with no dishwashers, garberators, 1970s decors and just generally smell really bad.

    I know you're a troll, but can't resist pointing out how stupid your argument is. Here's the same brand new condo, you can rent the same size unit on the 8th floor for $1600 or you can buy it down on the fifth floor for $535,000.

    They both smell the same, but one of those options means you'll be paying a couple hundred extra in strata fees and if you need any repairs in the suite it will come out of your own pocket.

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    Lemony Snicket Says:
    74

    A Series of Unfortunate Events continues…

    It Would be funny, if it wasn't so tragic

    http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Leprosy+diagno

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    rubberduckie Says:
    75

    Yes, many rentals are crap dumps with old 70s decor, but… so are most of the Million Dollar westside houses!

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    Dave: "Half the country watched the hockey game last night."

    Yes. They watched TV coverage of a game in a hockey arena; they didn't go site-seeing. Spin much?

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    Neighbour Says:
    77

    @Disbelief: You mean you get 7 of those instead of one of these at the better location?

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    “Rules go into effect April 19, but lenders are likely to begin enforcing most of these measures immediately.” David Atkin from CanWest.

    As I recall, that's what happened when 0/40 mortgages were disallowed, the new rules were applied immediately. There ain't going to be a spring rush of first-time buyers.

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    now that's bit unfair… leprosy, after all, is not really contagious…

    HIV, hepatitis, and other fun DTES diseases are though…

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    81

    @Dave:

    I also think that mobility of young workers will continue to increase over time with southern BC being the most popular destination.

    I don't think a surge in squeegee people and baristas is going to sell many condos.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    82

    Oddly incoherent article in the G&M:

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business

    It's quite correct that there are many smaller cities in Canada with no bubble, but once you get past that logic takes a holiday:

    In Calgary, Royal LePage agent Jim Sparrow points to the distorting effect that areas of Toronto and Vancouver have on the national picture…

    In markets like Calgary, “there is no sign of a bubble whatsoever,” Mr. Sparrow says, despite a return to more-normal levels of sales activity.

    That's absurd. Calgary has about the same prices and rents as Toronto – as can be seen from the national price map right in the article. If there's a bubble in Toronto, there is also a bubble in Calgary. No comment by the reporter on this gem.

    Yet again, no mention of price/rent or price/income in any market.

    What does Google tell us about the reporter?

    Steve Ladurantaye (ladurantaye) on Twitter

    I am a real estate reporter at the Globe and Mail.

    twitter.com/ladurantaye

    Mystery solved.

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    Rocker Guy Says:
    83

    @Anonymous: I disagree that the price drop will be slow. If you look at US data, the drop was as sharp as the rise. Even Vancouver's drop had the same shape in 2008.

    Once confidence is lost, prices will head down immediately.

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    Hype is a disease Says:
    84

    It doesn't surprise me that there is so much talk about the Olympics after months, no years of hype. This is all exactly what I expected a nauseating two weeks of patting ourselves on the backs for how great we are that we live here. The world knows we're the greatest place on earth now, Amen. Such bullshit.

    What this City will realize is that time keeps on ticking and another, larger hype machine is already in motion. The FIFA World Cup begins on June 11 and goes on for the entire month. The World's most celebrated sport will be seen by billions of people. They'll see how much money has gone into Johannesburg and the country as a whole. I also hear it gets sunny there and their real estate market tanked hard with the global recession that we're impervious to… for now.

    Tick tock VANOC enjoy your moment in the sun, literally.

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    bestplaceonmeth Says:
    85

    @Dave:

    >>>I’ll pay you to wait in line for me. Sound good?<<<

    I don't want your money, Dave – how about I just kick you in the nuts in exchange for standing in line. Sound good?

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    Vansanity Says:
    86

    2 sides to everything isn't there?

    For every story of a foreigner I hear that loves it here, I hear at least one local say how they can't wait for them to go home.

    IF people actually moved here from afar (provided they could find a job and all of that, as i understand it sightseeing doesn't pay that well) there'll be people that will leave too. Hell, that's already starting in my circle.

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    @permabulltime #61: I wouldn't go so far as to say all rentals are dumps. I live in a brand-new dedicated rental building, just completed in Oct 2009. Dishwasher and laundry? Check. New? Check.

    I worked out that our rent is half the cost of owning a brand-new condo in the building across the street. That's taking into account: interest (not principal payments) on a 5-year fixed mortgage, property tax, and strata fees.

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    bestplaceonmeth Says:
    88

    Regarding the asinine idea that the Olympics will want to make anyone buy real estate here, this is by far the dumbest argument the cheerleaders have put forth and I can't believe people are even wasting time refuting the delusional rants of lunatics

    It's as if the Special Olympics have already starting and this is the first event.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    89

    @Vansanity:

    IF people actually moved here from afar (provided they could find a job and all of that, as i understand it sightseeing doesn’t pay that well)

    It's another facet of Vancouver's entitlement mentality. Just as people think the city doesn't need to produce any tradable goods and services, they think there's a huge number of people who don't need to work who want to live here.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    I live in a brand-new dedicated rental building, just completed in Oct 2009…

    I worked out that our rent is half the cost of owning a brand-new condo in the building across the street.

    Well developers can work that out too, which is why they don't build rentals any more. Maybe you building just appears to be a dedicated rental but is really condos that are almost all rented out?

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    #81 @patriotz: "I don’t think a surge in squeegee people and baristas is going to sell many condos."

    Nonsense. If the government loans those people 600k, and then loans the next group 800k, then the first group has 200k of "home equity". Those squeegee people are rich, unlike anybody saving money who is just a loser. So why don't you just buy ? ;)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Also note, it can continue indefinitely until massive unfunded government liabilities cause a currency crisis, wiping out all savings. Then they'll have a debt jubilee, because the squeegee people can't pay, and the savers will be the new squeegee people.

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    One more take on the CMHC:

    Canada Must Have Crash

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    VREAA has archived the Swedish Flight Attendant story from vantownsucks. To clarify out perspective, however:

    Vancouver is looking glorious again today. Despite this, we don’t think there are going to be many Olympic visitors who decide to become foreign buyers of Vancouver RE. Our prices are simply too preposterously high, and those who live in other cities will be more aware of that than locals. We are, however, interested in any evidence that may prove us wrong. So far, we’ve had to be satisfied with the following insubstantial anecdotal snippet [the Swedish Air Hostess story]. Please send your stories, if there are any. -vreaa

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    Keeping an eye on th Says:
    95

    rp, why don't you tell the Americans about your theory, they would love to reflate their bubble if they could.

    Just email Bernanke and Co, I'm sure they will ask you how the details will work.

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    @vantownsucks: I was talking to a sweedish flight attendant at the Irish House last night and I’m not kidding she was considering buying a condo in downtown Vancouver. She said she loves Vancouver. I was shocked I must say.

    Related story?:

    Cross-Dressing Irish Scam Artist Lures Local Men With Tale Of Being Swedish Flight Attendant Seeking Accommodations,

    Vancouver Sun, 20 Feb 2010

    Image:
    http://www.ihateryanair.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/

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    The 'Failure Olympics' hype machine has gone into overdrive in the past few days. Haven't seen Campbell yet? He's waiting to see if the bullshit stain can be wiped off the headlines long enough for a resuurection.

    They have attacked the naysayers, found coincidental polls to show that BCers have had a 'sudden' change of heart, spent millions more on placing Vanco in a better light through publicists from New York to Rome ( hell its only the taxpayers money right?)

    Where are all these ads coming from all of a sudden? Could it be more propaganda?

    A good laugh is how they are backpeddling like crazy from the 'own the podium' failure. That was only 180 million of your money folks. Guess where 90% of it went. Fat Cat salaries, bonuses and perks for the 'officials'.

    The atheletes didn't get it thats for sure. Apparently 'advertising' can't do anything when it comes to actual performance.

    Even though the ad machine (hype) has gone into overdrive don't expect to see Gordo unless we see a real turnaround. He's very afraid of staining his 'legacy' with this failure.

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    Loud Speaker Says:
    98

    AMERICAN LOVE CANADA

    Poll indicates 9 out of 10 Americans have favourable view of Canada.

    Go Canada Go

    Booooooooooo

    Go Canada Go

    booooooooooo

    Go Canada Go

    Booooooooooo

    Americans love us.

    Canada is once again on top in Gallup's annual country ratings list, with 90 per cent of Americans viewing their northern neighbour favourably.

    Britain is right behind Canada at 87 per cent, while Iran is at the bottom of the list with only 10 per cent of U.S. citizens feeling the love.

    Go Canada Go

    Booooooooooo

    Go Canada Go

    booooooooooo

    Go Canada Go

    Booooooooooo

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    Anonymous Says:
    99

    CMHC = Cracking Most Households' Credit

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    bestplaceonmeth Says:
    100

    @fecalpaul:

    Don't worry, there are plenty more events coming up that Canada specializes in.

    I like our chances in Ice Prancing, 16 man Bobsled, Super Tiny Slalom, Cabin Building Relay, Trapping/Shooting combined & Mixed Ice Fishing.

    LET'S OWN THE PODIUM AND DEFEAT THE WORLD!

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    realpaul, Gordo was at the BC Place medal ceremony Monday night (for Bilodeau's gold medal), and was interviewed on TSN at Whistler a few days ago. I guess you missed it.

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    hamenoid Says:
    102

    CMHC = Canada's Money Herding Catastrophy

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    caps for sale Says:
    103

    Something quite funny happened this week to us, and if anyone wants to weigh in, that would be interesting.

    My husband and I need a new place to accommodate our new family addition. We're currently renting a 1.5 bedroom for 900-ish, that we moved into awhile ago. We were thinking of buying, but it is just impossible without doing some kind of weird financial voodoo.

    Anyway, we have just started looking to rent, and we're not in a big rush, but we know it as to be done within the next 8 months. On a whim I applied to one of those "affordable housing" apartments at the new WOODWARDS development and we've been approved. We were early enough in that we can choose one of the nicer apartments, and they're not bad. Actually pretty nice and spacious (900-950 sq feet) for the price, I think. There is a 2 bedroom with a nice view for $1,400/month. The thing is it's all happening so fast, we're supposed to sign the lease today if we want it. It's a bit more than we were hoping to spend, on the other hand it's convenient to our jobs, transit (we don't drive) and nice and new. I've been renting a studio about a block away from the towers for over 5 years, so I know the bad things about the neighbourhood.

    Oh, for those who are interested, I don't think the "affordable housing" is going to a bunch of welfare winos, as I've seen on here. They gave us a pretty thorough going over to make sure we earned enough to live there.

    Since we've only just started looking, we're feeling a little "aaaaah". Is this a good deal? We've just been given advice to buy into the new Ginger building instead (from a well meaning family member who is quite careful with money, but has a lot more faith in this market than us).

    Anyway, if anyone is reading this and feels so inclined: thoughts? What is the vancouver rental scene like right now? Would we be better off buying (can't see how, but open to ideas).

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    caps for sale Says:
    104

    hahahaha, as a follow up. I just looked into what it would cost to buy in Ginger, and an apartment which is 800 sq feet (ie 100-150 square feet less than the woodwards rental) would be, wait for it………a half million dollars. Yet we still got the "you'll be throwing your money away on rent lecture. AAAAAH.

    My husband is forbidding me to talk about this with our (very awesome and well meaning) family member, so to I'm glad to let off steam here.

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    HappyRenter Says:
    105

    @caps for sale:

    I drove by Ginger the other day and was thinking that place has been listing for a LONG time. I did a quick search and could find ads for Ginger from 2007. It seems really odd for a place to have not sold out by now especially after the hot market we had last year and 2007.

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    Drachen Says:
    106

    @Dave:

    "I agree. I also think that mobility of young workers will continue to increase over time"

    Now you're arguing against increased demand for real estate?

    Buying a property is the opposite of keeping yourself mobile Dave. Do you even realize you're making a fool of yourself?

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    Boombust Says:
    107

    "Poll indicates 9 out of 10 Americans have favourable view of Canada."

    Oh! I'm GUSHING with excitement.

    Again, I feel like the Noxzema Girl…who go NOTICED!

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    Boombust Says:
    108

    "Poll indicates 9 out of 10 Americans have favourable view of Canada."

    Oh! I'm GUSHING with excitement.

    Again, I feel like the Noxzema Girl…who got NOTICED!

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    No Longer Looking Says:
    109

    @caps for sale:

    But if I wouldn't raise a kid in that neighbourhood, I couldn't recommend it for anyone else. Not just the crime, but what kind of facilities are there?

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    vantownsucks Says:
    110

    Well the sweedish flight attendant was very very good I must say and I really do hope she decides to stay. She said she's also found that Vancouver men are pretty good so that's a big big factor for her as well. So maybe the olympics will bring more promiscuous women to Vancouver. I think we'd all agree that can only be a good thing. What else is there to do when it's raining anyway?

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    supraboy's sist Says:
    111

    @vantownsucks

    anything to flush out the princesses in this town :)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    […] from vantownsucks at vancouvercondo.info 19 Feb 2010 10:02 am – “I was talking to a Swedish flight attendant at the Irish House last night and, I’m […]

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    blueskies Says:
    113

    CMHC = Credit Mayhem Horror Continues

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    Fandango Says:
    114

    @vantownsucks: I just hope the promiscuous visitors are steering clear of the DTES – highest HIV and HepC rates in the developed world. So convenient to Gastown, but those disease rates that rival Botswana are a bit of a buzzkill.

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    Chilled Says:
    115

    Can we just get back onto the topic of Swedish flight attendants??? :)-

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    blueskies Says:
    116

    På flygplatsen …

    En kille sitter vid en flygplats bar i Atlanta märkte en vacker kvinna som satt bredvid honom.

    Tänkte han, "Wow, she's gorgeous! Och jag tror att hon är en flygvärdinna … men vilket flygbolag gör hon arbetar för?"

    Hopp om att plocka upp henne, lutade han mot henne och uttalade Delta slogan, "Love att flyga och det märks?

    Hon gav honom en tom, förvirrad och stirrar han genast tänkte för sig själv, "Hmm, nej, inte hon inte arbeta för Delta."

    En stund senare, en annan slogan dök upp i hans huvud. Han lutade sig mot henne igen, "något speciellt i luften?"

    Hon gav honom samma förvirrad blick. Han sparkade mentalt själv och kliade American Airlines från listan. Nästa han försökte Förenta slogan, "jag skulle verkligen älska att flyga vänliga sol!"

    Den här gången kvinnan såg på honom, irriterad och skrek "Vad $% #! Vill du?!"

    Mannen sjönk tillbaka i stolen och sade: "Ahh, Finnair …"

    :-)

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    bestplaceonmeth Says:
    117

    She did WHAT with the herring?

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    Anonymous Says:
    118

    CMHC = Creditable Monster for Humongous Credit

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    Anonymous Says:
    119

    CMHC = Charitable Monster for Hosing Credit

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    CMHC = Credit Madness Hurts Canada

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    Anonymous Says:
    121

    CMHC = Conservative Morons Hurt Canada

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    @blueskies:

    "At the airport …

    A guy sitting at an airport bar in Atlanta noticed a beautiful woman who sat next to him.

    He thought, "Wow, she's gorgeous! And I think she is a flight attendant … but which airline does she work for? "

    Hoping to pick her up, he leaned toward her and gave Delta slogan, "Love to fly and it shows?

    She gave him a blank, confused stare and he immediately thought to herself, "Hmm, no, no, she does not work for Delta."

    A moment later, another slogan appeared in his head. He leaned toward her again, "something special in the air?"

    She gave him the same confused look. He mentally kicked himself and scratched American Airlines from the list. Next he tried the United slogan, "I would really love to fly friendly skies!"

    This time the woman looked at him, annoyed and shouted, "What $% #! Would you doing? "

    The man sank back in his chair and said, "Ahh, Finnair …""

    Two can use Google translate you know… If you'd actually known how to write in Swedish the grammar would be terrible on translation to English.

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    Anonymous Says:
    123

    @Drachen: ???

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    @Anonymous:

    That's the message Blueskies posted translated to English.

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    buff_butler Says:
    125

    This was from Mish Shedlocks site and made me laugh. Its reffering to buying a condo as a "rental investment". I'm sure you guys will enjoy it (especially the last one):

    The Joys of Condominium Ownership

    Includes:

    1. Higher Mortgage Rates if you are an investor

    2. Property Management fees

    3. Condo fees

    4. Special Assessments

    5. Property Taxes

    6. Family members and friends who think you are rich and want free or reduced rates.

    7. Renters who think utilities are free and like the AC at 65 degrees with the windows and doors open when it’s hot outside

    8. Renters who think utilities are free and like it at 78 degrees with windows and doors open when it’s cold outside

    9. If you have a beach place all of your furniture will have a covering of suntan lotion (stains) and your rugs will have &frac14; inch of sand. Vacuum cleaner bag full in spite of spare bags. This is after the joy of cleaning maintenance fees.

    10. This all follows after the hassles of poor construction water leaks drafts clogged drains toilets ac units that clog and water heater disasters broken screens with each maintenance visit starting at $140.00 for a service call.

    11. If you are lucky your efforts will yield the equivalent of an hourly rate of $2.37 before tax benefits and $3.35/hr after tax benefits.

    12. Selling all of your “Get Rich Quick” Real Estate Books at 10 cents on the dollar.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    CMHC = Canada Mortgages Her Children

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    CMHC = Can Morons Handle Credit?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @caps for sale: Is Woodward's BC Housing? At $1400 for a 2 bedroom, with BC Housing policies, a family would need to make at least $50400/year to qualify to live there.

    BC Housing seems a bit unclear on the concept. 2 minimum wage earners – or one parent making double the salary – would bring in $32000/year. And would probably need affordable housing, I'd think.

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    browntown Says:
    129

    oh yeeah nutslaps! TIGER come out of the woods! tiger converting to

    "buhdism from bootyism"

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    oneangryslav2 Says:
    130

    Anyone thinking of buying in Regina or Saskatoon might want to think again.

    "Saskatchewan's finance minister now projects provincial potash revenue for the 2009-10 year will not reach the $100-million mark

    Rod Gantefoer, who made the comments while speaking in Saskatoon on Thursday, said compared with the nearly $2 billion in revenue the province expected from potash at the beginning of the fiscal year, the final figure will seem like almost nothing.

    "The good news is it's not decreasing by the exponential rates it used to — when you're getting near zero, the numbers get smaller. But, it is less than $100 million," he said.

    When the provincial budget for the 2009-10 year was announced in March, the Finance Ministry expected to bring in $1.9 billion in revenue from sales of this key ingredient in fertilizer.

    However, a significant decline in the potash industry caused the province to re-evaluate its potential takings from the pink mineral, dropping revenue projections by $1.3 billion in August and a further $500 million in the following months.

    Now, as the province prepares to release its third-quarter financial statements next week (the province's fiscal year runs from April 1 to March 31), it seems the revenue figure is in for another drop."

    http://www.leaderpost.com/Less+than+100M+potash+r

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    131

    @browntown:

    oh yeeah nutslaps! TIGER come out of the woods! tiger converting to “buhdism from bootyism”

    Like you can't practice both at the same time?

    Where's Tiger's mom from?

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    132

    <a href="http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Olympics+boom+that+never+came/2587934/story.html#ixzz0g5MPPecp&quot; rel="nofollow">Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

    MONTREAL – From Athens in 1896 to Vancouver in 2010, real-estate speculation has been a major off-track event associated with the Olympic Games.

    Montreal was no different in the six years between the time it was awarded the 1976 Summer Olympics in May of 1970 and the opening of the games in July of 1976.

    In and around the town of Varennes on the South Shore, more than 3,000 Americans bought 3,415 tracts of agricultural land. They were betting that Olympic exposure would help propel Montreal’s economy to a new level and spark a metropolitan property boom.

    But their hopes were dashed after the election of the separatist Parti Québécois in 1976. And their speculative bubble burst completely in 1978 when the PQ government passed a new law protecting agricultural land from development.

    There would be no Olympic payday for these U.S. investors.

    Lots purchased in the early 1970s for $5,000 fell to a value of $100 by 1979.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    133

    @patriotz:

    Lest anyone get the wrong message, that was a comment on Tiger's ancestry, not his mom personally.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    pricedoutfornow Says:
    134

    CBC radio reported today that realtors are bored, sitting at home, watching TV during the Olympics. Apparently international visitors are too busy enjoying the games to think of investing in real estate. Who woulda thought??? Though they did point out one realtor who had an amazing FOUR phone calls since the games started. This realtor revealed that one party was American, interested in purchasing a property in Vancouver.

    I bet the Americans slammed down the phone after hearing the price of condos in our fair city, and said "WTF???? These Canadians are delusional! A 500 square foot condo shouldn't be half a million dollars! Oh well, too expensive for us, let's look around in the US some more, how about Arizona, we can buy a whole house there for $115,000."

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    Supraboy Says:
    135

    @pricedoutfornow: You fool, why would realtors be bored? I have 3 realtor friends and they're busy going to olympic events and we are going to the Canada vs USA game in a few hours.

    I think you are the one who is bored.

    Who the hell wants to work right now when the games are on? I know I'm not going to do any work for next week.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    pricedoutfornow Says:
    137

    @Supraboy:

    Dude, I think you missed the point. I'm sure realtors would be more than happy to take on new clients (especially if they're only in town for a few days) right now rather than watch the Olympics. As if they're going to say, "No way, I can't show you around, I have to watch the games! Who needs commissions, we have the OLYMPICS!" Bored or not, point is, no one's calling.

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    Mortgage market has to be "reconstructed"

    http://themessthatgreenspanmade.blogspot.com/2010

    Former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker said the nation's home mortgage market is in trouble and will have to be "reconstructed."

    "It's totally dependent, heavily dependent on government participation," Volcker said Friday in an interview with Bloomberg Television. "It shouldn't be that way. That's going to have to be reconstructed."

    The federal government was responsible for up to 95 percent of all new home mortgages in the fourth quarter of 2009, said Guy Cecala, publisher of Inside Mortgage Finance, a leading industry publication.

    In Canada the CMHC is responsible for almost ALL new originations for first home purchases, in one way or the other. This is not sustainable, something has got to give.

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    Loud Speaker Says:
    139

    @domus: Domus CMHC is only affective where buyers pay less 20% down payments based on that there are only 30% people fall into the creteria with 5,10,15,and 19% down payments.If you divide these 30% people by 4 the percentage outcome is totally laughable for bears case .Remember Canada’s banking system remained strong during the global credit crisis. With no bailouts, it is the soundest system in the world, marked by a steady and responsible continuation of lending and profits.Canada has shown itself to be a pretty good manager of the financial system.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @Loud Speaker:

    Give sources, numbers. I mentioned the following "…ALL new originations for first home purchases…". I should qualify the time period: 2009. Prove me wrong.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @#133 "There would be no Olympic payday for these U.S. investors."

    Time is different today, and Americans are desperate enough to leave their country for uncharted waters and/or stash their cash in Canadian real estate.

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    bestplaceonmeth Says:
    142

    @browntown:

    Tiger Woods has always been a Buddhist.

    Except for the times he was banging whores.

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    Attention Renters!!! Pleasse do not buy RE in Van!

    You have a great lifestyle being subsidized by these idiot home owners who think they know more about RE than YOU!

    Preposterous!

    You can rent a condo for 1/2 the price of owning!

    Everybody knows that RE in Vancouver will crash big time because all these millions of foreigners are finally seeing how UGLY and HORRIBLE SH%THOLE of a city Vancouver really is?

    Its unfortunate that ANYBODY would have to live in a place like Vancouver.

    When the Olympics are over you will be able to buy Waterfront Condo's destroyed by inconsiderate atheletes for a fraction of what thier currently selling for.

    As a matter of fact you will probably be able to pay CASH because of all that money you've saved from years and years of paying cheap rent.

    Unfortunately I have to live here because of my career and family and own RE and have Renters in my basement paying my mortgage, I would be so much happier to trade places with my renters!

    You renters are are the BEST!

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    Drachen Says:
    144

    @domus:

    Not only is he illiterate like so many bulls who show up here he's completely innumerate too. He's basing his flawed logic on flawed math and trying to explain it all with flawed grammar.

    He's probably an agent… Regular people ain't that dumb.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    […] pricedoutfornow at vancouvercondo.info 21 Feb 2010 11:24 pm – “CBC radio reported today that realtors are bored, sitting at home, watching TV during the Olympics. Apparently international visitors are too busy enjoying the games to think of investing in real estate. Who woulda thought??? Though they did point out one realtor who had an amazing FOUR phone calls since the games started. This realtor revealed that one party was American, interested in purchasing a property in Vancouver. I bet the Americans slammed down the phone after hearing the price of condos in our fair city.” […]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Working guy Says:
    146

    @Supraboy: Supra, how's the game btw?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Neighbour Says:
    147

    @WinWin:

    WinWin, my heartfelt condolences on your loss. It must be hurting badly when overpaying insanely. I can sympathize with your misery so no need to be sarcastic while being desperate.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    oneangryslav2 Says:
    148

    Any legal experts who can answer a question for me. At a family dinner last night, I learned that my uncle (by marriage) is the owner of a leaky condo. It's in the Metrotown area of Burnaby and he must have purchased it new about 18 or so years ago. Anyway, he recently sold it, but my sister is unsure of the details.

    It seems like to took the presence of asymmetric information to foist his problem on an unsuspecting buyer. Could he be sued? Does he have to disclose this type of thing to a prospective buyer, or is it truly caveat emptor?

    Thanks.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    US visitors at this site made up of 16.1%, with others 12.3%.

    That is a total of 18.4% of people living outside Canada that are interested to buy properties in Vancouver. Could be more on another day.

    You can hit on the RED down arrow furiously. All I'm trying to say is that it is a huge concern because VHB-Freako-Jesse have been sitting on theories since 2004, there's no light at the end of the tunnel.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    err, what now?

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    Supraboy Says:
    151

    @pricedoutfornow:

    I'm a consultant (not telling you what), but I've turned down businesses to watch the olympics. Screw work. I don't need the extra money and it's more important to enjoy the olympics while it's here. Once in a lifetime unless you decide to fly to Sochi in 2014. I know real estate agents who would pass on their clients to their assistants to deal with. Unless someone wants to write an offer, the assistants does all the dirty work. And they schedule their appointments around the olympic schedule so they don't miss a thing.

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    Supraboy Says:
    152

    @Working guy: The game was awesome. I enjoyed the fact that Canada lost so they'll need to take out the Russians in the quarterfinals. I'm hoping for a Swiss vs Czech Gold medal game so I can get in cheap. btw, anyone selling extra tickets for the Gold medal game? I'm willing to fork up $1000 max.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    "I’m willing to fork up $1000 max."

    Gold medal hockey ticket prices only go up. Sorry about your luck, Supraboy.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @bjorn: VHB-Freako-Jesse have been sitting on theories since 2004

    Well go out and buy then. Theorists don't care about reality until it happens.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    scullboy Says:
    155

    @supraladyboy:

    Of course you don't need the money. You already told us you're living in Daddy's basement, rent free. I'd guess mummy is still doing your laundry and cooking rat-poo dim sum.

    I'm sure you've given up work. I mean honestly… how much wear and tear can can your poor knees take, plus getting all those coconut oil and God – knows- what else stains out of the ol' Japanese schoolgirl outfit and the Hello Kitty panties has gotta be a LOT of work.

    Does your mom ever ask why there are so many protein stains on that schoolgirl skirt? Or how you come across a grand?

    That one was just… too…easy.

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    duru2000 Says:
    156

    For the woodward family… if you are not in the rush don;t move, i actually heard that the ad was 1250/month for a 2 bedroom.

    We are moving in metrotown next week on a 1000 sqft apt, renovated for 1200 (new hardwood floor, new dishwasher), and i bet in the spring/winter the pressure will be on for the rental market. We looked for 2 months but we were constrainted to move, so my advice.. wait!

    PS i have sent applications for co-ops in vancouver and burnaby and couple of them answered, but unfortunately one was too late. We were accepted also for a townhouse coop in new west, but CMHC raised the rent from 1100 to 1300 in 3 years for this 3 bedroom townhouse.

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    What's to debat Says:
    157

    We pay 10% of our monthly income on rent. 65% into savings. If we bought a comperable place, we would likely spend 65-75% on interest from the mortgage.

    It really isn't that difficult to understand, there is no debate when it comes to rent vs. buy with those figures.

    I don't get why people on both sides of this issue get so caught up in it. If you're making money buying, good on you! If you're saving money renting, good on you too! What's with the attitudes? I just can't wrap my head around that.

    Anyway, went to the US this weekend. Had a blast! It may shock some people who read this but it was sunny and warm in Seattle too! Crazy, I know. Another mind blower – No one there gave two shits about the Olympics. Not one local commented on it when we chatted and they learned we're from here. Not one tv at any place of business we went to had it on. ESPN isn't covering it, and that's what was on. Lots of college b-ball.

    It was like a different world versus what the hype machine continues to cram down my throat on the daily. It was refreshing to get a perspective from foreigners that have better things to think about or discuss than Vancouver.

    If a city or its populous could be given a psychological screening, my money is on Vancouver being declared a narcissist.

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    Supraboy Says:
    158

    @jesse:

    You think so? And if it was a Norway vs Belarus finals, you think people would pay $1000 for that game? I wouldn't even pay $50.

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    Supraboy Says:
    159

    @What's to debate?: What a fool. Americans care more about college sports than the olympics and that's well know. You must be living in a box. College football is a greater draw in the US than the world cup of soccer. Why don't you go down there while the World Cup is on? I bet you they'll be showing baseball highlights instead of the world cup. Pull your head out of your arse and get with the program.

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    Supraboy Says:
    160

    @scullboy: Scumboy staying up late in Halifax to watch the Swedes and the Finns play. How sad, if you stayed in Vancouver, you'd see what's going on in town. The atmosphere here is unreal. There are over 100,000 people packing downtown everyday. You're missing out sucka.

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    duru2000 Says:
    161

    follow up… this is the answer from:

    Membership Committee Charles Square charles.square@hotmail.com

    I'm afraid we don't have any openings at the moment. We are currently accepting applications only for three bedroom suites (you would qualify with your child) or two bedroom subsidized suites (for which your household income must be below $37,000). If you wish to make either of these applications, go to our web page at chf.bc.ca and print out an application, then mail it to us. If you are going to do this, I also suggest you attend our next orientation session which is on Sunday, March 14 at 2:00 pm. Our address is 1555 Charles St. We give priority to applicants who have attended one of these meetings, which are held twice a year.

    You can see updates on our waiting list and the dates for futre orientations on the website. Good luck

    Morna McLeod

    for Membership

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    Anonymous Says:
    162

    scullboy, how's the weather?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Loud Speaker Says:
    163

    @jesse: And loser don't feel shame despite followers are being priced out month over month and year over year.Only an idiot can run this bearship in Vancouver,There is no professor to nail it down even Robert Shiller put his hands up,Garth Turner an idiot writer of the book owe 45% of R.E. value to every single bear on the board but posters are not accountable because if R.E ever goes 2% down in next decades they will be right even if bulls go mortgage free.

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    supraboy Says:
    164

    anyway, fuck the olympics, i'm spending my time renting myself out to IOC bigwigs (I love consulting to big wigs). scullboy is one of my clients, although his "tip" is small, unlike the IOC guys. so, more "consluting" for me and then I can buy 3 more condos and rent them to your poor rentas!

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    Maggie Chipman Says:
    165

    The whole story doesn’t make sense…..just too many inconsistencies; so many that even Bill Good couldn’t make it jive.

    Flaherty would not make new rules based on the Vancouver market alone, so does this mean he sees a bubble in the rest of the country, where prices are half of what they are in Vancouver?

    Does that then mean Vancouver’s Bubble is a Bubble gone Wild, and the pop will be even more spectacular?

    And what about the new mortgage rules as it relates to investors? How would the 20% down affect the investors? Aren’t they supposed to be super rich who buy cash? And just how many of these super rich immigrants are there?

    Why aren’t they buying up businesses, the commercial real estate is in the dumps.

    The market is supported by overextended illiterate working stiffs, being fleeced by the creative writers who call themselves mortgage brokers.

    We have subprime, greed, and stupidity just like the USA, the tide will eventually go out, and we will see just how many were swimming in their underwear.

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    "Leasehold deal leaves homeowners facing huge repair bill"

    …the Beckets are facing the shocking prospect of becoming homeless after being handed an out-of-the-blue home repair bill of $47,000.

    http://www.bclocalnews.com/richmond_southdelta/ri

    Ouch, ouch….

    But I don't understand why they complain? The house is theirs, even if it's a lease, no? How does it work?

    If the same thing happened in my complex (which is perfectly maintained by Metro Vancouver), I would not have to pay a dime.

    Regards

    arit

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anyways, enough of my bickering. I'm going to worry about real estate after the Olympics. Let's hope Canada wins hockey gold so we can all celebrate together regardless of which side we are on.

    Regards

    arit

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    Supraboy,

    That's really mature of you to use my signature and try to use my nick. I don't appreciate it. Play clean. I have never harrased you on this site, show the same respect.

    Regards

    arit

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    Disbelief Says:
    169

    I was DT most of the day today these Olympic games are meant for the rich and IOC family members. For the vast majority there isn't much just tons of people who will watch any lame performance or lineup for hours for a 100ft zip line or to be able to act like a CTV anchor. Way too many people doing way too little. Stay home and watch it on your plasma. We have to pay for this party that loser Gordo and his drinking buddies are enjoying. The Traffic Nazis should take a chill pill. I was at the Bay and there were idiots in line to buy the way overpriced Olympic stuff all coralled in like animals being led to a slaughter. I guess all that credit card debt will come in just in time for the overblown Owelympic hangover bill. And we can all weep together.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    170

    @arit:

    “Leasehold deal leaves homeowners facing huge repair bill”

    …the Beckets are facing the shocking prospect of becoming homeless after being handed an out-of-the-blue home repair bill of $47,000.

    <a href="http://www.bclocalnews.com/ric…..07942.html

    ” target=”_blank”>http://www.bclocalnews.com/ric…..07942.html
    Appallingly badly written article. The reporter does not understand the difference between renting and leasing. The latter is ownership over a limited term rather than unlimited as with freehold. Leasehold owners have all the responsibilities of freehold owners.

    The article even repeatedly calls the lessor the "landlord".

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    171

    @oneangryslav2:

    Could he be sued? Does he have to disclose this type of thing to a prospective buyer, or is it truly caveat emptor?

    I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that the seller of RE has an obligation to disclose only extraordinary problems such as being a former grow op or drug lab, or environmental hazards on site.

    It's the buyer's responsibility to look into ordinary maintenance problems.

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    scullboy Says:
    172

    @Anon:

    Weather here is pretty awesome! It hasn't been cold in the least. It's overcast today but the cloud cover in the Maritimes is much higher then in Vancouver so you don't get that closed in feeling. It never feels quite as chilly and damp here in the winters. I think there's less humidity. There's a little snow on the ground but not much.

    Yesterday my friend, her cousin and their kids came over for a togobbaning party. I live next to this enormous hill that's great for sledding. All the neighborhood kids come. The hill is so terrifyingly steep only kids are foolish enough to try and conquer it. :) Since I'm still adjusting to life here, there are all kinds of things I notice are different from life in Vancouver. Once of the things I notice is there seem to be a lot more children and families living downtown. That's just an annecdote though, not a data point.

    @SupraLady:

    I'd comment on the "I love consulting to bigwigs", but I'm trying to restrain myself to one post per thread implying you're a dirty whore.

    That being said, which is it: Are you not working and spending tond of money, or are you making tons of money working? If you're going to lie you need to be consistent, otherwise we'll know you're lying.

    I have to admit you make me laugh, you're so transparently phony.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    This blog is for naggers,losers, out of money people, who missed the RE train.

    Go Vancouver Real Estate……GO Vancouver… condo RE….

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Good news!

    Economists: Recovery is firmly on track

    http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/22/news/economy/nabe

    However, it took me less than 2 minutes to dig up what the same economists were saying in 2005.

    There Is No Housing Bubble in the USA

    Housing Activity Will Remain At High Levels In 2005 And Beyond

    http://www.nabe.com/publib/be/0502/smith.html

    It's always good to start a Monday morning with some humor.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    175

    I was listening to the CBC this morning when the announcer started talking about the visit BC ads you see during the Olympic coverage. I thought he was going to gush about the scenery, but he wanted to know why the celebs who were saying "you've gotta be here" seemed not to be in the pictures.

    :-)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @Maggie Chipman:

    "so many that even Bill Good couldn’t make it jive."

    I know I make mistakes too, but that word is a pet peeve of mine. It's "jibe" not "jive" you're looking for.

    Jive is a type of music, dancing or joking.

    Jibe is a sailing term for cutting back and forth across the wind or (to quote dictionary.com) "to be in harmony or accord; agree: The report does not quite jibe with the commissioner's observations."

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    caps for sale Says:
    177

    at Arwen

    "Is Woodward’s BC Housing? At $1400 for a 2 bedroom, with BC Housing policies, a family would need to make at least $50400/year to qualify to live there."

    Yeah, they did a check to make sure we earned more than that…well, a little more than that actually. .It's not for minimum wage earners was my point. Reading on here, you get the impression it is for very poor people.

    We didn't take it by the way.

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    caps for sale Says:
    178

    at duru

    "For the woodward family… if you are not in the rush don;t move, i actually heard that the ad was 1250/month for a 2 bedroom."

    thanks, we decided to wait. I think 1,280 was for a handful of subsidized suites. still not quite sure. we just decided living downtown wasn't for us, though looked good on paper.

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