We are so screwed.

Don sent in this bit of bear food from Business Insider in case you’re running out of things to worry about in the global economy:  We are so screwed.

“Our immersion in the details of crises that have arisen over the past eight centuries and in data on them has led us to conclude that the most commonly repeated and most expensive investment advice ever given in the boom just before a financial crisis stems from the perception that ‘this time is different.’

“That advice, that the old rules of valuation no longer apply, is usually followed up with vigor. Financial professionals and, all too often, government leaders explain that we are doing things better than before, we are smarter, and we have learned from past mistakes. Each time, society convinces itself that the current boom, unlike the many booms that preceded catastrophic collapses in the past, is built on sound fundamentals, structural reforms, technological innovation, and good policy.”

This Time is Different (Carmen M. Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff)

For more crisis fear read the whole article here.

59 Responses to “We are so screwed.”

- ♦ ↓ ↓ ↓ Click here to leap to comment form ↓ ↓ ↓ ♦ -

    It's "different this time" alright.

    What IS different, is the intensity and duration of this RE boom.

    What WILL be different is the intensity and duration of the collapse.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @Boombust:

    Yep. You thought the 80's were bad – stay tuned.

    And the irony of it. Expo 86 led BC (whether or not it deserved the credit) out of the bust.

    But the Olympics are going to lead us into this bust. And there's nothing coming down the road to pull us out of it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Oh, there just getting it now….bullshit.

    "Cue the anxiety about a real estate bubble. The ultimate nightmare is that when interest rates rise, maxed-out home buyers will default on their mortgages and other debts. Next step: The housing market plunges, taking the economy down with it."

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/per

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business

    "It's all the buyers fault?" C'mon Flaherty. Of course the people buying will be underwater if rates aren't kept at zero. The only way they got the mortgage was because they could only meet the payments at zero intrest. Who do these guys think they're kidding?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    This is another fallacy

    "But Ottawa does not believe that there is a housing bubble at the moment and, having done some analysis to determine the impact that higher down payments and shorter amortizations would have, the Finance Minister believes that such moves would take too much heat out of the market and damage the economic recovery, according to sources."

    There is no 'economic recovery' there is only a housing bubble. Unemployment keeps going up (although the CDN papers haven't been allowed to print the story) and Corporate profits etc continue to slide.

    Mr Flaherty , a housing bubble is NOT a national economy, its a smokescreen !!!!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    I learned something this morning. The term "argumentum ad consequentiam"

    Thought I'd share as it's probably what we'll hear more of in the next bit.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_consequenc

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Are you guys all just bitter that you didn't buy or something? The market is headed higher and will continue higher for at least another 6 months to a year, after that I'll re-visit the numbers but right now this ship is not turning any time soon.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    White Payer Says:
    7

    @jiming: jiming, Would that ship's name be Titanic, by any chance???

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @jiming:

    Are you guys all just bitter that you didn’t buy or something? The market is headed higher and will continue higher for at least another 6 months to a year, after that I’ll re-visit the numbers but right now this ship is not turning any time soon.

    ——-

    I'm not bitter, but it makes me laugh that you will be. Haha.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @jiming:

    Are you guys all just bitter that you didn’t buy or something?

    Oh I did buy. For example BMO @ $25 a year ago, which I sold for $46.

    Who's bitter?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    No Longer Looking Says:
    10

    Things could get ugly tomorrow if Dussault indeed has a goon squad to battle the anti-Olympics anarchists. Read the comments on this article.

    "The duelling rallies begin at 3 p.m. at the Vancouver Art Gallery"

    http://www.theprovince.com/technology/anti+Olympi

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    jiming, @jiming: @jiming: care backing your statement up with…you know some facts or something?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    buff_butler Says:
    12

    @patriotz: Ya BMO was a good one. I didn't get in that low but 10.5% div is a good deal on low risk. Manulife was another good one, esp with options.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    13

    I strongly believe in fact that it is different this time especially since following this blog. Privilege to read iconoclasts like Dave, Supra, SATV, richasian, and lately jiming opened my eyes and made me stronger, smarter, richer, better and better looking, basically made me capable to feel like being important player in this world-upper-class city. I look forward to the day where we get a chance to meet in person and I can shake your hands for everything you said, thank you.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @No Longer Looking:

    What's the point of protesting the Olympics at this point? The time to do that was 5 to 10 years ago. Anybody who protests is a dummy and is simply has a grudge against god knows who or what.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    I'm not bitter either.

    To take advantage of the current Re mini-bubble, I've been flipping houses in Alberta for about a year for a fat, suculent profit. I buy them in the name of my wife and if we are left holding the bag when the bust comes, I'll just walk away and let the taxpayers take the hit.

    Her credit rating will be toast but we don't care because I still have a credit rating and tons of money in the bank.

    You see, mortgages in Alberta are limited recourse. They can only go after the house, in which I have practially zero equity, so I don't care if they foreclose. All my other assets are protected.

    You'd have to be a complete moron to buy RE in Vancouver during this bubble. Vancouver has the worst RE metrics on earth.

    To top it off, if you are speculating and flipping in Vancouver, you are exposed to bankruptcy.

    Really, Bulls need to think. This market is going bust. It is only a matter of months. You will be more than bitter if you are holding the bag when that happens.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    11:24 am – You heard it first. CNN Until recently the sea to sky highway was "one little logging road"

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Loud Speaker Says:
    17

    @VRENGD: These following words have no value and it doesn't even sounds funny in Vancouver,Those words are……..

    1.Head Offices

    2.Bubbles

    3.87 billion jobs bill.

    These words own a copy rights protection from the Government of United States Of America,Illegal immigrants of Lotto MAX in Usa,Natural disasters of America.

    "There is a deep corelation between Usa,illegal immigrants,natural disasters,head offices,jobs,bills,sub-prime and bubbles".-Captain Jack Sparrow.

    http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo302/amanda_b

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    "And the irony of it. Expo 86 led BC (whether or not it deserved the credit) out of the bust. -Patriotz

    Not so sure about that.

    We also had Northeast Coal, The Coquihalla Hwy, Alex Fraser Bridge, Science World, BC Place Stadium the Expo Skytrain Line AND EXPO leading up to the fair.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @nonymouse:

    That's but one of many fallacies being promoted by the bear side, for a fairly complete list have a look at this fallacy reference.

    They are all essentially 'false' debating tactics used when the debater can't or won't provide substantive reasons or cogent arguments for their position. To put it more simply fallacies are tricks used by liars to get away with their lies.

    Dave for example loves to bring up fallacies, I'd say about 75% of the stuff he says here is fallacious.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @jiming:

    "The market is headed higher and will continue higher for at least another 6 months to a year, after that I’ll re-visit the numbers"

    Wow, you would buy a house by only looking at a 6 month price window?

    You have some bigger cojones than I will ever have. Smaller brains, but bigger cojones.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    realpaul Says:
    21

    The spin from Ottawa this morning was that the banks may be required to tighten lending practices where FTB's can prove they have the ability to carry a mortgage at 'higher rates'. What that will mean we don't know. I think its just a trial balloon that they have floated to try and manage some of the bad press that is getting out on this issue.

    They can spin the affordability story by throwing the CREA and the realtors to the dogs and liberalise the MLS system thereby making the commissions go away. They can also do the tax derall scheme and reduce the carrying costs for the time time. All short term solutions to a much bigger problem.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    taylor192 Says:
    22

    Mortgage hike threatens N.B. family with loss of home

    Coles notes:

    – Family owns house for 10 years

    – Family refinances house at last renewal, taking out nearly all equity

    – Family has bad credit

    – Family turned down by conventional lenders, uses Wells Fargo

    – Wells Fargo jacks rate from 8% to 14%

    – Journalist cannot do math, 8% to 14% interest does not double a mortgage payment.

    Another damn sob story about someone losing their house after spending unwisely and using equity as a piggyback.

    Expect more of this, and expect less sympathy.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @taylor192:

    "- Journalist cannot do math, 8% to 14% interest does not double a mortgage payment."

    Depending on the terms it could result in the payment nearly doubling. It more than doubles the amount of interest you're paying though, depending on the terms.

    40 year loan with monthly payments on 100k.

    8% = payments of $695.31

    14% = payments of $1,166.67

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    patriotzed Says:
    24

    @Boombust:

    Expo 86 led BC (whether or not it deserved the credit) out of the bust. -Patriotz

    Not so sure about that.

    We also had Northeast Coal, etc

    That's what I meant by "whether or not it deserved the credit". I was talking about chronology and psychology, not economic causality.

    Certainly all of the infrastructure projects which you mentioned kept people working – whether they were all worth the money, such as Northeast Coal which has gone bust, is another question.

    But what really led to a sustainable recovery in BC was the upswing in demand from the US (housing, consumer, tourism) and Asia, as well as substantial capital inflows from Hong Kong and other Asian sources. That combo is not going to be repeated, and I don't think Asia is going to pick up the slack for reduced US tourism and demand for forest products and other resources (Russia and Oz are much closer). As well, the bubble economy has wrecked the secondary industries such as high tech which did well in the 80's and 90's.

    I think it's going to take years just to figure out what, if anything, is going to carry this province forward in the future. No other province has seen its industry wither to such an extent in the last decade.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    So what I don't get is that if there is all this talk about a housing bubble in Toronto and their average house price is around 450K, how the hell is it that these folks don't deduce that Vancouver at 900k and lower average income, is not in the bubble of all housing bubbles…??

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    bums up2 Says:
    26

    VRENGD

    [alberta bubble flipping scheme]

    I honestly wish I had thought of this.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Keep Trying Says:
    27

    [alberta bubble flipping scheme]

    Please…its just a bitter bear pretending to act on his bubble knowledge….

    It is the same as all the bears that have supposedly made tons off the stock market and the same ones that sit with tons of cash…it is all smoke and mirrors designed to make them feel good about missing the largest run-up in RE history….

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Aside from the general: "this time it's different", let's not forget the specific:

    "South Florida is working off of a totally new economic model than any of us have ever experienced in the past."

    We all saw how that turned out.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    realpaul Says:
    29

    US FED looking to put ‘signifigant upward pressure’ on short term rates”

    Is this why Flaherty is chirping up lately?

    “The central bank has created more than $1 trillion in excess reserves in the banking system through its purchases of $300 billion of Treasury debt and $1.25 trillion of mortgage- backed securities. To put upward pressure on the federal funds rate, the Fed may need to drain as much as $800 billion, Abate estimates.

    One potential tightening tool is the interest rate on reserves that commercial banks keep on deposit at the Fed. By raising that rate, the central bank “will be able to put significant upward pressure on all short-term interest rates,” Bernanke said.”

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aSn2_iDKbl1g&pos=4

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    News flash! The Vancouver Sun says there is no bubble:

    http://tiny.cc/ddxoH

    And if you believe that…I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @patriotzed:

    BC and Alberta are probably the last two Provinces to worry about the future. I think Ontario and Quebec have far greater problems with a weak US dollar (likely to continue) and outsourcing of manufacturing.

    BC has a very diversified economy and we are well positioned for the future. We have absolutely EVERYTHING here. We are and will continue to be North America's Gateway to Asia. We not only have geographic connections but significant immigrant connections. BC has a very skilled workforce and great universities. We have plenty of resources including lumber, minerals and oil. And in the future, we are going to be a major source of fresh water for the US market. We have the ability to generate all sorts of clean energy from new large scale hydroelectric dams to run of the river power projects. We have lots of wind resources on the coast along with the potential of tidal power. We have lots of sun in the Okanagan for Solar. We have peace. We have beauty. We are sitting next to the World's largest economy. We have amazing recreational opportunities from skiing to hunting to eco-adventurism. Vancouver and Victoria are beautiful cities that tourists love to come and visit. The Olympics will only enhance our tourist industry.

    I cannot think of a better place in the World for future opportunities. Embrace it!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @Dave:

    Oh ya, we have great food, woman and weed as well.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    "Please…its just a bitter bear pretending to act on his bubble knowledge…."

    Funny! Just because you are unsophisticated, don't assume others are. There are sophisticated business people who can make money from bubbles by limiting risk and playing the most advantageous markets.

    And then there are fools. These, mostly buy at the top in rediculous places like Vancouver and expose themselves to bankruptcy.

    Which one are you?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @Dave:

    Wow, what's with the sales pitch?

    You're starting to sound like Bob Rennie.

    All those things are true, sure. But, you say we're right next to the world's largest economy. An economy that was devastated by it's own Real Estate bubble, a bubble which was about half the size (or less) of BC's bubble.

    If the largest economy in the world can't ride out the fallout from a comparatively minor real estate bubble what chance does our little backwater have? Sure forestry and mining and such will keep us alive but the economic engine for the past ten years has been real estate, the collapse will cause a lot of people a lot of pain.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @Dave:

    ……very diversified economy and we are well positioned for the future. We have absolutely EVERYTHING here. We are and will continue to be North America’s Gateway to Asia. We not only have geographic connections but significant immigrant connections. …. a very skilled workforce and great universities. We have plenty of resources including lumber, minerals and oil. And in the future, we are going to be a major source of fresh water for the US market. We have the ability to generate all sorts of clean energy from new large scale hydroelectric dams to run of the river power projects. We have lots of wind resources on the coast along with the potential of tidal power. We have lots of sun in the Okanagan for Solar. We have peace. We have beauty. We are [Editor: "IN"] … the World’s largest economy. We have amazing recreational opportunities from skiing to hunting to eco-adventurism. Vancouver and Victoria are beautiful cities that tourists love to come and visit. The Olympics will only enhance our tourist industry.

    ====================

    Hmm. Sounds exactly like Seattle. Hmmm, didn't stop them from nose diving.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    anonymousAA Says:
    36

    Just because BC is a great place to live with great opportunities for the future doesn't mean there isn't a real estate bubble.

    'Nough said.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @BB:

    I agree. They share many similarities and they are going to have a bright future as well. Definitely two of the best places in the World for opportunity.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @anonymousAA:

    Likewise, it follows that high prices do not imply a bubble because our real estate in underpinned by future economic expectations.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    neighbour Says:
    39

    @Dave: BC has a very diversified economy and we are well positioned for the future. We have absolutely EVERYTHING here.

    Dave, Dave, Dave, what a talent you are? Keep pretending to be mentally ill… Washington has it all you said + MSFT + Boeing + Costco + Amazon + American Seafoods Group + Jacobs + Nordstrom… list goes on and on… and they worry, they really worry about their future.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @Zowie:

    What a shocker – an article from the local rag that "debunks" the notion that there is a bubble here.

    Note that there is no author, nor any contact info to whomever wrote it.

    This anonymous author is somehow perplexed as to why the Big Six banks would press Flaherty to contain the "bubble" when there obviously is none.

    And people wonder why we get our news and facts from blogs these days – "journalism" just isn't what it used to be.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    patriotz patriotz Says:
    41

    @taylor192:

    I wonder why the bank is asking them to so drastically reduce their amortization period… we the tax payer are on the hook for their CMHC backed mortgage.

    Connect the dots, it's clearly not a CMHC insured mortgage but one of our homegrown subprime mortgages. Banks are quite happy to keep insured mortgages on their books because they can't lose.

    Similar things have been happening with customers of Xceed Mortgage, which is calling loans because it's having trouble borrowing itself (gee I wonder why).

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    The bears get more pathetic by the day.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    bestplaceonmeth Says:
    43

    @Dave:

    STFU, Dave.

    Nobody is asking you why you're cheerleading, so don't ask people why they're protesting.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Boombust Says:
    44

    "I think it’s going to take years just to figure out what, if anything, is going to carry this province forward in the future. No other province has seen its industry wither to such an extent in the last decade." -Patriotz

    Oh, absolutely! I couldn't agree more.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Boombust Says:
    45

    @Dave: BC has a very diversified economy and we are well positioned for the future.

    You must be off your rocker.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @Zowie: re:VanSun "no bubble here" article.

    Oh, that is so sweet. I love how there is no author credited. I guess that is understandable, since it reads like a grade 8 english essay.

    To paraphrase: "high prices aren't the problem, low incomes are! And they are low because there is too much tax!"

    What an embarrassment that newspaper is.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    bestplaceonmeth Says:
    47

    BC's "well diversified" economy consists of pulling shit out of the ground and selling weed & real estate.

    The real estate part will be history shortly.

    That leaves weed and the shit in the ground.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    pricedoutfornow Says:
    48

    @taylor192:

    Oh noooo…this couple has a mortgage of a whopping $135k and are facing losing the house!!! My oh my…what will happen when people have mortgages of $700k and face the same thing?

    You know, I had the chance to watch some satellite tv last week, and I noticed that shows like "Till Debt Do Us Part" and other financial shows appear regularly on Global-Saskatchewan and Global-Alberta but are not to be found on Global-BC. Why? Because it would actually ASTOUND people in BC to realize that having a mortgage of $300k is actually a HUGE amount, nevermind $700k. It's pretty obvious what that nasty host (ok, she's not that nasty, but she's pretty tough on people with debt) would say about families with $120k income taking out $700k in 35 year mortgages in our fair city. Guess Global realized that would be BADBAD for the BC economy and decided it's too risky to air those shows in this bubbletown.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    taylor192 Says:
    49

    @Drachen

    Or you could just read the article and do the math:

    $135K mortgage
    @ 8% over 35yrs == $944 (from article)
    @ 14% over 35yrs == $1545
    @ 14% over 13yrs == $1858 (from article)

    I wonder why the bank is asking them to so drastically reduce their amortization period. Something doesn’t make sense.

    Oh wait, something does make sense – people with bad credit should not be given $100Ks – look at the terrible decisions they make – and we the tax payer are on the hook for their CMHC backed mortgage.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    The Vancouver Sun editorial is by this guy:

    http://communities.canada.com/vancouversun/blogs/

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Wow, that editorial is a new low for Vancouver Sun. Lower than I thought it could ever go. It's even lower than Dave!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @FORREST:

    17

    X FORREST Says:

    February 11th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    11:24 am – You heard it first. CNN Until recently the sea to sky highway was “one little logging road”

    ++++++++++++++

    And what do they do after spending 1 billion dollars to make 2 lanes 4 lanes?

    Ans: They close 2 lanes.

    Pure genius. After the Owelympics the government will do with the new highway what they did with the new ferries, take a couple of lanes out of service to save money.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Maybe Dave's day job is 'writing' for the Sun.

    (I put writing in quotes because it's 90% cut and paste from press releases)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Disbelief Says:
    54

    Dave sounds more like Gordon Campbell ewwww. Hopefully both of them will fall of the earth. That everything is beautiful speech is relatively true. The bottom line is the price is not consistent with value and both Dave and that blowhard Premier of ours will one day get it unfortunately both of them will be long gone by then.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    In governments decision making, the decisions are heavily influenced by lobbyist, or whatever other names you wish to call them. These are people with an interest in the outcome of a political decision who are paid to influence the decision makers.

    After the "invention" of the internet (by Al Gore), the new open forum, or blog, or tweeter, or facebook or comment section was born. It is a tool to influence people. The main adgvantages of this kind of tool is twofold: 1. It is free. 2. It's anonymous.

    Soon some corporations discovered the power of these tools. Today, many a corporation employ full time commenters/tweeters/facebookeers and bloggers. These people come to work just like you and me. The difference is that while YOU are slacking by visiting Vancouver Condo Info, these people are PAID to visit Vancouver Condo Info.

    It is hard to believe, but there is such a thing as a professional commentator on blogs. If you don't believe me, Google it.

    What do they do? They get paid x bucks an hour to visit different sites/blogs on their specific topic and spread propaganda. It can be anything.

    Real Estate is the strongest industry in BC (excluding pot).

    Vancouver Condo Info is the #1 Real Estate Bubble Blog in BC.

    I leave the rest to your own analytical skills.

    Best Regards

    arit

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Disbelief Says:
    56

    I guess we all know what Dave's job is now. The cat's out of the bag. Thanks Arit tjiscexplains a lot. A fat pimple faced loser in his mama's basement.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Dave,

    1) world class universities: take a look at our faculties here. why do all the top professors have training in the top US and European insitutions. Why dont they Phd at SFu and do a postdoc at UBC and get hired on. Sure, there are a few exceptions, but the top people in most fields are coming out of harvard, mit, stanford, columbia, etc… quantitatively, you can see where SFU/UBC measure in terms of research impact. I just checked, UBC ranks 35-36 in the world. SFu does not crack the top 100. to put that in perspective, UBC is like UC, Santa Barbara. Do you consider UCSB world class. Generally, the top scientists in the world are not looking at UBC as the #1 choice to do a fellowship.

    2) Diversified: We have a weak medical research and biotech sector compared to any other city of our size. We also have trouble attracting and/or retaining talent in this regard for various reasons.

    3) large hydroelectric dams? are you kidding. do you have any idea how much land gets flooded behind dams, especially large ones. Do you actually live here and have any idea how many tree huggers there are in this province. The last dam of any consequence was built here in 1979.

    I'll stop there. In my ideal world, the internet contains only facts and there are no bailouts or government backing funded by taxpayers which could go on for a long time. Dave, it is easier to make your arguements if you back them up with facts.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    […] increases in taxes going forward. Overall the editorial is a naive shambles. At vancouvercondo.info tincup (11 Feb 2010 8:08 pm) pointed out that it reads “like a grade 8 english essay.” […]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    […] federal debt, and the high likelihood of increases in taxes going forward. At vancouvercondo.info tincup (11 Feb 2010 8:08 pm) pointed out that the editorial reads “like a grade 8 english essay.” […]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

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