West end residents protest densification
Plans to build a 20 story tower in the west end met some resistance yesterday, as local residents held a protest against the proposal.
The rezoning would allow developers to build a 20-storey tower on the site and take advantage of the city’s Short Term Incentives for Rental Housing (STIR) program, which includes incentives such as faster permitting process, parking requirement reductions and increased density of the rental apartments.
“It’s completely out of sync with what works in the neighbourhood,” said Godfrey Tait, a spokesman for the concerned residents. “You could maybe have some mixed-market, family-oriented housing, maybe something that wouldn’t exceed six levels, but certainly not another tower.”
The full article is in the Vancouver Sun.
March 16th, 2010 at 11:36 am
Houses are consumed the same way a computer or car is consumed. They are depreciating assets in need of ongoing repair, upkeep and renos to keep them in prime condition. Eventually they are all replaced, gutted and rebuilt or abandoned. Maybe cars and computers don't belong in CPI either?
March 16th, 2010 at 3:40 am
@Yalie:
Asset bubbles are caused by misallocation of capital. The reason the housing bubble happened in the US, and continues in Canada, is that the interest rate on mortgages was not priced properly for risk (mostly due to securitization in the US, CMHC here). The problem was not low central bank, i.e. riskless, interest rates, but specifically too low rates on mortgages.
To control asset bubbles, you stop the misallocation of capital by controlling credit, not by general interest rate policy, which would adversely affect the whole economy. If the Fed had jacked up interest rates to try to control the housing bubble it would have induced a general recesion. The correct course of action, which of course was not followed either in the US or here, would have been to put a brake on nutty mortgage lending by controlling securitization and increasing borrower qualifications.
CPI, i.e. the cost of consumption, absolutely should be used to set monetary policy.
March 16th, 2010 at 1:34 am
How you could honestly look at the westend skyline and think that a large tower would ruin the place is beyond me. The city planning from a design point of view has as much thought put into it as my 2 year old son commits when stacking blocks.
One more slightly larger block will not make a jot of difference.
What cracks me up about Vancouverite's is their perspective when it comes to protesting. Spending millions of public money on a elitist sports. Fine. Erecting a tall lego block. Get the pitchfork.
Right, I'm off to buy some flowers on my scooter.
March 15th, 2010 at 9:28 pm
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Canada+housi…
Sales of existing homes declined for a second straight month, with a 1.5 per cent month-over-month drop in February on a seasonally adjusted basis. This followed a 3.8 per cent decrease recorded in January. A heavy drop in British Columbia, which coincided with the Winter Olympics in Vancouver and Whistler, was partly offset by a robust activity in Toronto.
Meanwhile, the number of new listings — an indication that homeowners are looking to capitalize on demand — climbed 2.4 per cent, marking the fifth straight month that housing supply grew. The amount of housing inventory in February stood at 5.2 months, well below where it was a year ago, at 8.8 months, but on par with 2008 levels.
"Headline price increases are drawing new supply to the market, and so that's taking some steam out of the market," said Gregory Klump, CREA's chief economist.
March 15th, 2010 at 9:11 pm
Not sure if it was over looked, but RBC released their march report on affordability.
Here's one of their comments on BC:
"While still below their recent cyclical peaks, all RBC measures stand well above long-term averages. Such poor affordability levels represent an element of risk that could weigh heavily on markets when interest rates start rising."
In case you want to take a look.
http://www.rbc.com/economics/market/pdf/house.pdf
March 15th, 2010 at 8:07 pm
@patriotz: , mostly I agree, but there is a difference between renting a condo from some specuvestor and renting in an all rental building. For folks who are looking for a stable rental situation in a well run, renter-oriented building, it's helpful to have buildings purpose built for rental as opposed to condos.
Whether that justifies a special city incentive program, I'm not so sure, but to my mind (almost) anything that encourages more construction, more density and more housing stock is good for the city in the long run.
March 15th, 2010 at 8:06 pm
@wealthylandlord: I just have to say more about your rant "wealthylandlord".
Those "sorry ass" renters you speak so disparagingly of are people you WANTED to lease your property…you NEEDED to lease your property….hell, you ADVERTISED for to lease your property!
I find your outburst to be rude and highly juvenile.
On a good note, it also confirms my belief that I am on the right side of this equation.
March 15th, 2010 at 8:04 pm
@patriotz:
Okay, but then the CPI should not be used to set monetary policy. The low US CPI (which excludes house prices) was the justification used by Greenspan to set interest rates at 1% in the early 0's, which directly caused the US house bubble. Had monetary policy factored in house price inflation, he could never have justified such low rates.
March 15th, 2010 at 7:08 pm
oh my….
Vancouver East & West*
New Listings – 99
Back On Market Listings – 0
Price Changes – 33
Sold Listings – 39
Vancouver All Areas*
New Listings – 301
Back On Market Listings – 4
Price Changes – 130
Sold Listings – 127
*Attached & Detached @ 03/15/2010
March 15th, 2010 at 7:01 pm
@wealthylandlord: As a renter (and I think I can speak for most sane renters), I can tell you I would have no problems if my landlord sold my place and the new buyers decided to live in it. That would be how the cookie crumbles…so to speak. Life goes on.
You sound as you if you have a verrry personal issue with one particular renter and for God knows what reason you decided to vent your frustration on a bearish real estate blog.
PS I am glad you are not my landlord. You sound like you have "issues". (I was going to say you sound like a tool, but "issues" sounded kinder…ooops I guess I said it afterall.)
March 15th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
@taylor192:
It doesn't matter whether a new building is condos or purpose built rentals, the net effect on rental stock is the same. Think about it – a new condo has be bought either by an investor who rents it out or by a former renter, who frees up a rental unit.
It makes no sense at all for the city to have a program fast tracking or otherwise promoting market rentals, for this reason.
March 15th, 2010 at 6:31 pm
@wealthylandlord: Sounds like a tenant has asserted their legal rights and now you gotta pay out a few dollars. HAHA That's the law today, buddy. Pay up.
March 15th, 2010 at 6:18 pm
Dear forenting losers. When I sell my investment properties and the new owners want your sorry ass out please shut the fuck up about it and quit your bitching. If you don't like renting then buy or move somewhere else. Thanks.
Your winner (former) landlord.
March 15th, 2010 at 6:12 pm
@Vansanity:
Mortgage rates, and house prices, do not belong in CPI at all. CPI measures the cost of consumption. Buying a house is not consumption, it's an investment, i.e. a purchase of capital just like a stock or bond. You don't need to buy a house, ever, to have a place to live. Rents belong in CPI because rents are the cost of consumption of housing.
Putting house prices in CPI would also have the absurd effect of causing CPI-linked pensions to fall due to a RE bust, while the cost of actual consumables (i.e. the things we do have to buy to live on) is rising.
March 15th, 2010 at 6:00 pm
Comparing Vancouver to Paris is like comparing a piece of shit to a piece of cheese, both smell but you'd only want to own one.
'Midtown' Vanshitstain, all two minutes of it !!!!!!! bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha how desperatly pretentious do you have to get before you start trying to lick your own ass because you can't get a date?
Why can't these over mortgaged losers admit that they live here because they either can't afford or aren't quailified to live somewhere nice?
BTW enjoy the Suuny D and the KD by candle light. Teresen just got another rate hike approved.
March 15th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
From the Rolston webpage:
"The iconic Architecture and well crafted interiors provide owners with a sense of pride. Pride in being part of something new, well considered and unique. Pride in having a home within a project that does not look like everybody else’s. "
Wow, where's condohype when we need him? This harkens back to the the heyday of condo lifestyle advertising.
March 15th, 2010 at 4:59 pm
Midtown is so…common….
I'd suggest calling it
"Perineumtown"
…..much closer to reality
March 15th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
Wow…just recieved this 'invite' in my email this morning..
My favorite lines:
"Owning your first home is a sign that you've made it; an appreciating asset that is secure and will grow the longer you own it"
State/future of the Vancouver Real Estate Market. Can You Buy a Home This Year?
Now that the Olympics are over, do you have an interest in the Vancouver housing market? Perhaps you want to buy your first, even second home for security or investment.
But what are the housing pricing trends? Is the market too high and about to crash to more Affordable Housing or will we see the start of a real estate buying frenzy?
This March 16th, you are invited to a discussion about current housing availability and pricing trends, important whether you are a first-time home owner, or wishing to buy a secondary home as an investment vehicle.
—
Owning your first home is a sign that you've made it; an appreciating asset that is secure and will grow the longer you own it.
However, today, with the unstable economic and personal financial forecasts, buying a home can be a risky proposition. What if interest rates change and you can't pay your mortgage? What if the housing market dips, you'll have overspent.
Or, commonly, "what if I don't know enough about the home buying process? From real estate agents, to lenders and mortgages, it's all confusing to me?"
And if you are looking to buy a 2nd home as an investment rental property? Vancouver's housing market is comprised of investors who buy 2nd homes, rent it out and use the rent/lease to pay down the mortgage…and them some (effectively not having to make any payments on their home during that time, what a deal!).
One thing is for certain, 2010 is going to be an unpredictable year for the Vancouver housing marketing, particularly with new interest in the city as a result of the 2010 Olympics.
Join us, Tuesday, March 16th, please join a panel several real estate and mortgage experts as they discuss the near future of the Vancouver housing marketing, what exactly are the steps to buying a home, and what they know will happen during and after the Olympics.
The Panelists are:
1.Travis Henderson, realtor (www.travishenderson.com)
2.Paula Semiens, mortgage broker (www.yourbcmortgagebroker.com)
3.Dennis Eng, mortgage broker with Dominion Lending Downtown (www.denniseng.ca)
4.Teri Conrad, real estate marketer with TLC Home in the Fraser Valley (www.tlchome.ca)
And the event will be moderated by Tom Everitt, realtor with ThinkTom.com Realty (www.thinktom.com).
If you are considering buying a home over the next 5 years, then you MUST attend this event. Please RSVP early at http://www.meetup.com….
As usual, the Vancouver Business, Marketing and Entrepreneur meetup group will start the evening off with general announcements and pitches and afterwards, you are invited to join us for food, drinks, and networking.
Last but not least: We'll also have a row of exhibitor tables along the side and back for you to promote your business. If you would like to purchase a spot ($130), please email the organizer, Ronald at info@elevatedmarketing.ca.
What: Thinking of Buying a Home in 2010? STOP! Don’t Make Another Move Until You Come to This Home Buying Forecasting Forum!
Who: Panel of Real Estage and Mortgage Experts
Where: Sandman Hotel ballroom, 180 West Georgia (by Cambie Street, enter through Moxies)
When: March 16th, 2010, 7:15pm
Cost: $10 for admission.
Please RSVP on the event page at: http://www.meetup.com...
March 15th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
@Vansanity
Well said!
Has it not been a case of the "tail wagging the dog" for a long time in monetary policy despite the claims otherwise?
March 15th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
Re: Rolston video.
I really like when they are pulling the polaroids open from the Leica as I've never seen a polaroid back for one. I should just suspend my disbelief because helmet-less riding on the Granville bridge makes about as much sense.
March 15th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
@Astute Observer: I disagree. I would say that I am EXACTLY their so called target market. And I can't stop laughing at their ad campaign…
March 15th, 2010 at 2:36 pm
Yeah, because the target market for the Rolston have shit for brains.
March 15th, 2010 at 2:35 pm
The question I have been pondering is why are the feds moving to stop a housing bubble if there is no housing bubble?
The ony thing I can think of is the Canadian dollar and the manufacturing base in Ontario. The base was shrinking when the dollar got too high so they slashed rates to tank the dollar and try to save the jobs. This worked but it gave us a housing bubble and now the dollar is back up close to parity. If housing colapses then the world will know that our bankers were no smarter than the Americans and our dollar will tank with the housing market saving the manufacturing jobs in Ontario and getting them their majority. Toronto and Vancouver are not conservative stongholds anyway. Just a thought.
March 15th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
What? All that this commentary is sayign about The Rolston is that these users are simply not in the target market. Vive Le Difference!
March 15th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
I live in and I love the west end. I think it is the best neighborhood in town. But it is nothing like what is shown on the rolston ads… It is quiet, a nice social mix with all the young renters, the old retired and lots of korean and japanese people. It is pretty because they left the trees in the street not like in yaletown. West end is cheap with lots of old school "shitty" groceries stores. There is lots of cheap asian food too. The west end gave you this feeling that even if the buildings are old and not so nice, the people have make it a great place to reside. It is not new, it don t try hard to impress you. It is not this strange mix of yuppies meet hipsters depicted on the ads. The westend is anything but cool or hype.
March 15th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
@Best place on meth:
Leaving interest rates low for years would eventually cause hyperinflation. Oh wait, that's exactly what it already did to one asset class, RE.
One major problem that came to light was the way in which inflation is measured. To think that mortgages carry the same weight to one's household finances as a loaf of bread or a gallon of milk is ridiculous. When an average family uses upwards to 65-75% of their income to cover a mortgage vs. a fraction of a percent for the latter items. Then the excuse from Stats Canada is that they remove assets that act volatile, so essentially, they remove assets that are in a bubble. It's utterly mind boggling. IMO it's all to match whatever federal policy or BOC rules that they want to implement.
Playing with federal policies and BOC rules and the abuse that they've conducted to the CMHC with an asset class that carries so much weight and that should be heavily scrutinized in terms of lending, is just political suicide and bad business.
When the tide goes out, we'll see who was swimming naked. This entire country has been skinny dipping their way through this recession. That FP article calls Carney out on all of his bullshit, but also gives his perspective, as he's now stuck between a rock and a hard place.
March 15th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
@Purp:
Good article in the National Post, but arguing fundamentals with cheerleaders is like arguing evolution with Republicans.
The concept doesn't exist to them.
They love to think that interest rates can stay at zero for years (for various reasons) but as I've said before, if that actually happened then it means we're in a Depression.
March 15th, 2010 at 12:59 pm
Jesus – Vancouverites would complain if they were hung with a new rope. Unless they've got something to bitch about they don't know what to do with themselves.
March 15th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
number of for sale signs in North Van has gone up significantly.
March 15th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
@Alpha_Bear:
First off I love the lyrics. The promoters may be aware of the concept of irony, but, they also have a target audience who's thought process, for the most part, runs as deep as a puddle. Like the "happy" couple depicted in the ad, they see the extravagant lifestyle and just have to have it. They hear "You're too cool" and simply say… "Ya, I am." Like many I see in Vancouver the reality of the words and images is lost on them… the moped is leased, all the flowers, records, photography gear, cheese, muscles and wine were purchased with ever expanding credit card debt, and it is the bank in fact that owns their accommodations. To the outside world they look and feel like millionaires (because that's what their assessment said), but in reality they are slowly digging their own graves and burying themselves in debt.
March 15th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
I have notice there are a lot of new listings everywhere and very few sold signs. Is this the sign of things to come!
March 15th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
Get real nutslaps. This is Ralston's position was terrible. I can not imagine himself married to a huge mortgage loans, in exchange for the pleasure of dealing with alcoholism, deadbeats and noise there. Real estate pumpers in this city is outrageous. Do not believe the hype. onehorse said: "The terrible time, mortgage loan for your soul in the air shoe boxes."
March 15th, 2010 at 12:16 pm
"Simone Baribeau of the Financial Times of London…argues that Canada’s financial regulators are enjoying a brief moment of glory before the reality of a housing bubble hits."
http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blogs/tradingd…
"..But the U.S. is hardly in the worst position in the developed world. In fact, it looks to be in pretty good shape. Compared to rents, houses aren’t too far from the average of the pre-boom years. Canada, Sweden and Spain are in much worse positions…"
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2010/03/12/global-…
March 15th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
"The place just off the end of the overpass with drunk partyers puking in the alley all night”?"
You forgot to mention that they also urinate in the alley all night causing the street to smell like an outhouse (like it did during the Olympics).
March 15th, 2010 at 11:41 am
If you live in west end you know that condo towers full of forenters not very desirable since it's a very happy neighbourhood with lots of sucessful business people. Renters should stay in the east part of town.
March 15th, 2010 at 11:35 am
@White Payer:
It's the pursuit of happiness that makes people unhappy. Because soon they realize there's jack-shit in it for them. They can't have Paris so they want a condo that came with a Parisian-themed marketing campaign. Fuckin' morons.
March 15th, 2010 at 11:32 am
Lyrics to the Rolston video backing track (by The Zolas):
You’re Too Cool
Love don’t live at home, oh no, it slithers in the wild
I met her at the Biltmore, she was cold and over-styled
Took all my money and took all my pride
She may not be a pharaoh, but she guzzled down the Nile.
I can tell we’ll never be safe
‘til the walls fall down.
Every morning chipping away
‘til the walls fall down.
Won’t you cry on my shoulder, won’t you laugh at my jokes?
It’s okay to relax in this forest of folks
Cause nobody’s aiming a stick at your spokes
So won’t you cry on my shoulder, won’t you laugh at my jokes?
I’m wide awake, I’m wide awake, I’m wide awake
And now you’re back in town
To show your New York crown
But now you’re much too proud,
You’re too cool.
On the road I dream of home and when at home I dream of action.
Our apartments are all haunted by the ghost of satisfaction.
Cause we all want something that’s bigger than fashion.
So spill out your heart brother, show me your passion
Spill out your heart sister, show me your passion.
.
Are the Rolston promoters familiar with the concept of irony, or was their video a conscious effort at self-deprecation?
March 15th, 2010 at 11:31 am
What would you prefer we call our new neighbourhood, "The place just off the end of the overpass with drunk partyers puking in the alley all night"?
March 15th, 2010 at 11:31 am
This is what people love and this is what they will pay for. The dream.
This is mind control and manipulation at its best. Insanity becomes normalcy and people live their lives on perpetual credit oblivious to what's beyond the forest. They can't possibly live in Paris, so they want to believe this is even better…. moped and flowers… such a cliche – I was laughing outloud too.
You all did see "The Village" didn't you?
If you didn't, you should.
March 15th, 2010 at 11:22 am
Midtown Vancouver WTF
I used to walk from Wall street to my hotel in Mid town Manhattan in approx 50 minutes whenever I was down on business.
I can walk from my office 250 Howe (beside Pan Pacific) to my house at 25th and Granville approx. in the same amount of time.
March 15th, 2010 at 11:20 am
@nonamejoe:
Hilarious promo for the Rolston, but at those prices it would be more realistic to replace that yuppie couples expensive cheese board, wine and mussels with Kraft Dinner and Sunny Delight.
For about the next 35 years.
March 15th, 2010 at 11:14 am
That Rolston tower is UGLY.
March 15th, 2010 at 11:09 am
@nonamejoe: That Rolston ad website is the BEST! LOL LOL
I have never in my life, IN VANCOUVER, seen a woman(model) riding a moped with a bunch of flowers in the basket!
Very Paris! Not very Vancouver!
March 15th, 2010 at 11:05 am
"Home resales decline in february, biggest drop in Vancouver"
Who'da thunk it!
Can't immagine what'l happen when rates go up later this year.
March 15th, 2010 at 11:05 am
Hahahahahahahaha Midtown oh the hubris
March 15th, 2010 at 11:02 am
@nonamejoe: I thought that Vancouver has run out of space to build. And yet, they are going to create a whole new neighborhood in the middle of the city. It's a miracle!
March 15th, 2010 at 10:23 am
Stripped Down: Vancouver landmark makes way for a new 'hood
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/stripp…
They're calling the Granville street 'Midtown'? Is our Downtown even big enough to have a 'Midtown'?
Here is the website for the development: http://www.therolston.com/
It's funny how they paint this big city life style in a city with no big city life style
March 15th, 2010 at 10:01 am
Anyone willing to bet those opposing this are probably landlords? Agree with my post if you think so.
Vacancy rates are way up (0.2% to 2%) and a majority of the housing in the west end is rentals. New rental buildings would be of concern to any landlord, especially buildings sponsored by the city (fast tracking development).
March 15th, 2010 at 9:42 am
@mino3:
Yep, looks like they're all about 20 storys to me.
Not sure what Godfrey's problem is, other than his tragic given name.
March 15th, 2010 at 8:52 am
I don't get it. Aren't there already plenty of 15-20 story buildings in the west end? Google maps street view even shows some pretty much on that exact intersection:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear…