Backing away from the Bid
We posted this in the free for all, but it’s worth taking a closer look: Eleven pre-sales buyers at the Vancouver Olympic Village are unhappy with their units and are trying to get out of their contract. They complain about changes to plan and faulty fireplaces. Presales contracts of course always favor the developer, and these issues aren’t enough to break the agreement, so the approach their lawyer is taking is to claim that the City of Vancouver took over as developer. Since they aren’t listed on the paperwork this would be a technicality that could nullify the contract. If they manage to make this argument work and other buyers want a way out of their purchases it could be more trouble for the O.V.
The buyers put down deposits of between $60,000 and $300,000 for False Creek condos priced from a low of $550,000 to units that sold in the millions of dollars.
They’re being asked to close their deals by the end of the month.
On Thursday, Baynham filed writs in B.C. Supreme Court against developer Millennium Water on behalf of six of his clients, who have addresses in Vancouver and West Vancouver.
Baynham says the City of Vancouver is the owner of the property, after bailing out Millennium when it couldn’t get financing. But that’s not disclosed in the sales agreements, he says, so the contracts are invalid and should be rescinded.
The city argues that Millenium still owns the project and is the developer, the city is simply the bank.
We saw a lot of pre-sales buyers try to walk away from their contracts during the mini-crash a few years ago, and developers suing the for the difference between their deposit and the current market value. It’s interesting that these buyers are trying to get out of their contracts while the stats still show that Vancouver property prices are still at an all-time record high.
June 28th, 2010 at 2:42 am 1
The purchasers are being disingenuous. The courts should hold their feet to the fire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbu7EmP9mhk
The city's response? "we have absolutely no concerns".
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June 28th, 2010 at 6:32 am 2
PROVEN !!!!!! Police Force IS 'THE BLACK BLOCK !!!!!!!
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va…
Police Agents Provocateurs were primarily resposible for the chaos shown on Toronto's streets. They smashed the windows and burned their own cars in order to manipulate a circumstance where they could attack the crowd. This is a misdirection ploy to try and turn public opinion from the murder spree they have been caught at and towards a greater sense of fear and the need for fascist force and the breakdown of Charter rights. Don't forget that individuals withing the RCMP have their sights set on bigger budgets and growing empires. They used the G20 as a way to lobby for funding. Cynical???? Of course, but look at the history of the people you're dealing with…high school drop outs and losers who have found themselves in positions of power.
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June 28th, 2010 at 6:43 am 3
@realpaul:
I know it's early in the morning, RP, but rather than freebasing the caffeine, try one cup at a time like the rest of us.
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June 28th, 2010 at 7:18 am 4
It’s become too obvious, even for the pimps and the kool –aid drinkers, the market is going bust.
But the lawyer knows that is not a legal defense, and so the search starts for a half baked reason to back out.
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June 28th, 2010 at 7:21 am 5
@realpaul:
Paul, you are a piece of work.
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June 28th, 2010 at 7:22 am 6
Here's the link the lawyer looking to get additional people to bail.
http://www.harpergrey.com/news-recent-67.html
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June 28th, 2010 at 7:38 am 7
Spot The Speculator #2 – Renovators As Speculators – “That’s what things cost now. The cost of everything is through the roof. But look at what you’re sitting on. A property that’s probably going to be worth a million dollars in a few years. That’s the reality of Vancouver now, and the reality of construction and real estate.”
With discussion by Froogle Scott:
http://wp.me/pcq1o-12Y
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June 28th, 2010 at 7:42 am 8
This whole OLV back-out is a fiasco.
None of the buyers would be pulling out if Vancouver sales hadn't softened up. They would have happily flipped and pocketed $100 + grand of easy money and been boasting to their friends.
But now that they see it hasn't sold and there may be reductions on the way they want out. Too damn bad. No risk- no gain. Or do we let the tax-payer eat this too. BTW these are probably local buyers, not the rich chinese who would have bought and flown back by now.
Of course you can always find a lawyer to try and manipulate the system, and maybe a judge who will be swayed by a few tears from the flippers.
Contracts are contracts period.
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June 28th, 2010 at 8:07 am 9
Bear these fool will regret backing out of best opportunity of lifetime to own condo in OV. Rennie have no problem selling condo to someone else and more money for him. They probably read some bear blog and think market go down and we all know Vancouver real estate never go down
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June 28th, 2010 at 8:11 am 10
Jesus Grampy, adjust your tinfoil had and either halve or double your daily dose of meds. I admit I get a kick out of your crazy schtick. Half the time you're to the right of Hitler, and half the time you're to the left of…. the NDP.
Shine on you crazy diamond, and let your light serve as a warning to others.
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June 28th, 2010 at 8:15 am 11
@frank: "Contracts are contracts period."
…except when the developer wants to sign more of them. At that point perception and bad press trump them holding firm on the contract wording. These buyers are simply hoping for a cheaper price to keep their mouths shut.
I wonder if they'll be back in 2 years when prices are 30% down. This is not the last time we'll be hearing these stories about OV purchasers wanting a "fair deal."
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June 28th, 2010 at 8:19 am 12
I'd rather see someone sue the CREA/RE/Max/Royal LePage/etc. for their members suggesting that real estate only goes up and perpetuating myths like wealthy asians are buying all of our property and that after the olympics prices would soar as the whole world would want to move here after seeing it on TV. Afterall, isn't that really the reason these OV presale buyers made their purchase in the first place. Since prices didn't go up, they realize they were swindled.
Speaking of realtors, has anyone read Turner's latest post? It would seem that now realtors want buyers to sign contracts where they would have to pay the agent a commission for going on MLS… I mean working hard to find the perfect home. Just read it, the conditions will make your blood boil. My favorite is possibly having to pay them if your contract expires and you haven't purchased a home yet.
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June 28th, 2010 at 8:43 am 13
Downtown-False Creek North condo inventory continues to grow. Now at 1142. New 2010 highs for VW detached and VE detached, too. If inventory overall is flat for the whole REBGV, it isn't in VE and VW, anyway. Graph here.
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June 28th, 2010 at 8:45 am 14
@joycer:
Legally, people who sell RE are treated the same as sellers of memorabilia, baseball cards, etc. as far as representations of future value are concerned. In other words they can say just about anything they want. Nobody has ever been successful suing them for such representations and every lawyer knows it.
And what if you don't? Listing agents have a fiduciary duty (not to mention a financial inventive) to pass on all reasonable offers to the seller, and who the hell needs a "buyer's agent" (who is actually just another agent of the seller) anyway?
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June 28th, 2010 at 8:46 am 15
Regarding the Realtor BRA, I think it has no teeth. What realtor is actually going to go to court to collect on their commish?
For example:
Ok…so I sign the BRA.
Now assuming that I did not outright deceive him or anything (I have ethics), assume that due to circumstances (private sale, contract expiry, general realtor ineptitude), he does not get his commish, and he sends me a writ to that effect.
I would phone him, and mention that I’d be going to the press immediately, and begin dragging his name through the mud. His choice—10k now or his career.
Nice try.
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June 28th, 2010 at 9:32 am 16
@VHB:
If condo inventory is growing, how come the CULT index is flat? Badly chosen sample of buildings in the index perhaps?
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June 28th, 2010 at 9:34 am 17
Bear so hard on Realtor, how many bear complete Grouse Grind 14 times in one day? None, except maybe Black Bear. Because RE bear can't admit that Grind only goes up, everytime they get to flat part they think they are at top.
This realtor will enjoy beer from Sub-zero when he is done. Count on it.
http://www.theprovince.com/Vancouver+realtor+look…
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June 28th, 2010 at 9:37 am 18
@SuperSmartBull: "Because RE bear can’t admit that Grind only goes up,"
What happens when you get to the top of the trail? You're ready to puke and you have only one way to go….down.
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June 28th, 2010 at 9:41 am 19
Uh oh bear, FIFA hifi is heating up. Will spill over into RE frenzy soon as hordes of German, Dutch and Argentinian fans snap up Vancouver deals in a 4-3-3 formation. There is no way to stop it. Although bear will be crying over fouls, just like CREA contracts.
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June 28th, 2010 at 9:48 am 20
@SuperSmartBull:
Yes, he has to do something with his free time. At least now we now agents can be useful. He and 20 thousand of others RE agents, when they go on EI, now can start doing charity.
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June 28th, 2010 at 9:55 am 21
@Anoymous #16: Part of the reason inventory is growing is that there are new buildings going through possession process now that are not yet tracked. Also the tracker only tracks a subset of the total available stock.
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June 28th, 2010 at 9:55 am 22
@SuperSmartBull: Supersmartbull all day long again, live from a parents basement near you!
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June 28th, 2010 at 9:57 am 23
@patriotz:
I know this, but it's part of the problem. They benefit from the sale something which takes people a lifetime to pay off. It shouldn't be taken lightly when they are obviously "talking up their book".
As for the buyer's contract, I wouldn't have any problem with it if it wasn't for all the "fine print" which leaves the buyer on the hook for possible commissions.
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June 28th, 2010 at 10:05 am 24
Bear getting all worked up over contracts, listening to god Garth. Relax, just read contract before sign and ask smart question like, "What if I don't buy anything, are you still going to ask for money?". Come on bear, no one is going to do all your work for you. Most stuff not enforceable anyways.
Oh, don't forget rent due in 2 days.
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June 28th, 2010 at 10:11 am 25
@joycer:
MLS sells your home, realtor doesn't.
Open up MLS and half the realtors will be broke.
I guarantee it.
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June 28th, 2010 at 10:20 am 26
Found this "rant" in this weeks WestEnder:
You Rent, You Risk:
"I'm sick of the jizzbags who enjoy the benefits of renting instead of buying a place and then won't accept the downside- that is, they might have to move out if their landlord needs to renovate the place. I own a place: I'm a quarter-million dollars in the hole; I pay $250 a month to my strata; and if I want to move, it'll cost me thousands of dollars in realty/transfer/mortgage fees. Renters avoid all of this by living in someone else's property and letting the landlord assume all the risks that come with ownership. When the tide turns and it's time to go, they can bitch and moan and call the CBC "Go Public" hotline, or they can do what I did: accept the unpredictability of renting, take their two months' notice… and buy a place. Or keep renting and stop complaining.
~ Frank"
Well, the worm has certainly turned now hasn't it? Bitter owners?
One of the symptoms of a bubble is when you think your liability is an asset, and a bubble bursts when people realized their asset was actually a liability. (looking at you leverage!)
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June 28th, 2010 at 10:26 am 27
@“A-Sharp” Accountant: BRA becomes a contract when signed, like any other. Like any contract you sign, the terms are negotiable. Don't like something you read, strike it out. When you end your relationship with the agent, terminate the contract. It's like a non-compete clause some employers have you sign; completely unenforceable. If the agent sends you a threatening letter later, simply ignore it. If the agent's lawyer sends you a threatening letter, then you'll probably have to spend a couple hundred to have your lawyer opine on it, just like if any random asshole sent you one for no reason.
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June 28th, 2010 at 10:31 am 28
ROFL, SuperSmartBull is getting more hilarious every day. One of these mornings he'll owe me a new keyboard, because electronics and tea don't mix well.
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June 28th, 2010 at 10:31 am 29
Get pre-approved before prices FALL. LOL…. this is a snippet from the blog post here: http://www.canadianmortgagetrends.com/canadian_mo…
===================================
Getting Approved Before Prices Fall
For the last 4-5 months or more, newspapers have been chock full of headlines like: Are We in a Housing Bubble?
That’s got many expecting a drop in home prices.
When home prices do fall, it makes it tougher for certain people to qualify for a mortgage—especially for refinances. When prices start dropping, appraisals come in lower, insurer valuation systems become more conservative, and lenders tighten up in general.
Vince Gaetano, a broker with Monster Mortgage, tells the Financial Post that people are already trying to get approved “before there is a correction in the real estate market.”
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June 28th, 2010 at 11:01 am 30
This BRA nonsense is one of the biggest jokes I've seen lately. Heres the response to the real shit who presents it. Ask for an addendum and strike off the entire document. Rewrite into the addendum that the real shit pay you $50,000 if he doesn't find you a property at undermarket value and sells your place for over market value within fourteen days, all to the sole benefit of yourself naturally, and see what he says. Then stick your foot up his ass and fling the prick out the door….YOU DON"T NEED A REALTARD TO SELL PROPERTY!!!!!
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June 28th, 2010 at 11:07 am 31
They gambled, they lost.
Suck it up flippers, your day of reckoning is upon you.
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June 28th, 2010 at 11:19 am 32
Regarding the BRA, no one needs a realtor anyway. As I've said before, read Freakonomics. The economist author makes a convincing argument that pimps give more value to their clients than a realtor.
Remember, your lawyer will make sure you own the property at the end of the transaction and that the seller doesn't take your money and run. The lawyer is also qualified to review and write contracts for you.
Once google has its real estate site up and running, the occupation of a real estate agent will be over. Don't feel bad for them. Many in this city make much, much more than brain surgeons. And that based on 5 weeks training.
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June 28th, 2010 at 11:21 am 33
@Best place on meth: I was going to say it's not so certain these buyers have lost. But they involved a lawyer, so even if they win they lose.
What we'll be seeing going forward is akin to going to the aquarium and watching the piranhas fighting over scraps of meat. I don't really care which one wins; it's just fun to watch.
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June 28th, 2010 at 11:32 am 34
@VRENGD: According to Freakanomics, the Realtor cares about getting fast transactions, not necessarily about getting top dollar for the seller or bottom dollar for the buyer. I doubt Realtors will go away; like selling any expensive capital asset you want someone to do the dirty business for you. And GOOD Realtors fill the bill on this point. A valid point is whether they should be paid commission or be paid flat. Commissions are much higher in real terms today than 10 years ago because of the commission structure, for ostensibly the same service.
It's unfortunate but unavoidable the Realtor business is so dirty; how else do you sell something in a speculative bubble? But there are some good agents out there, for selling anyways. I don't have the aptitude for doing a sale myself so I'll pay someone else who does. There's not necessarily anything wrong with that, as long as I choose the agent carefully.
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June 28th, 2010 at 11:33 am 35
"Backing away from the Bid"
Just gotta say, this title is brilliant.
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June 28th, 2010 at 11:42 am 36
"But they involved a lawyer, so even if they win they lose."
Disagree. A case of this complexity will cost the clients round $25,000 to take all the way to trial. If they get out of a contract on which they are down $100,000 they "win" by $75,000.
As the market sinks lower, their "winnings" keep going up.
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June 28th, 2010 at 11:57 am 37
It's just another sign of the foolishness of the times that anyone would even think about signing a contract with an agent to look to BUY real estate.
The only contract you sign is with the guy who's selling the house, if and when you buy.
You don't sign a contract with a car salesman when you're looking to buy a car do you? Or with the guy at Best Best when you're looking for a new TV?
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June 28th, 2010 at 12:07 pm 38
@patriotzed: Patriotz has it right bears, only saggy loser need BRA for support.
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June 28th, 2010 at 12:09 pm 39
"Oh, don’t forget rent due in 2 days."
Why do you need to remind yourself so often? If your memory is really as bad as you want us to believe, you should probably just write post-dated checks for the balance of the year and mail them to your landlord. It will make things easier for you, and he will appreciate that he doesn't have to badger you at month end.
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June 28th, 2010 at 12:16 pm 40
While many disagree with the morality of the buyers trying to get out of their OV contracts, it's not about morality, it's all about the money. If they can get ahead financially by suing, why shouldn't they?
If their case sucks, then they will loose the case and the court will penalize them with costs.
No skin of the noses of us bears. In fact, the publicity is bad for the OV development and bad for RE optimism generally. The more law suits the better.
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June 28th, 2010 at 12:27 pm 41
@Bilbo Bloggins: Maybe so, but will the MLS give you a complimentary BJ in the backseat of her BMW after you close on a condo? Nope.
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June 28th, 2010 at 12:28 pm 42
The double whammy of realtors vs no realtors: Canada has 96000 realtors. If they open MLS you can safely say at least half of those people go jobless the next day (likely more). The government then has 50K people not only unemployed and not paying taxes, but now they have to support all of these newly unemployed people when they know there is no earthly way that those jobs will ever come back. This is not a cut and dry issue and that is why this anti-competition debacle will not be cleanly resolved anytime soon. The marketplace wants no realtors the government (and CREA) wants them. In the end, the marketplace always wins whether it happens the easy way or the hardway. Technology has created a new graveyard and the headstone says "Here lies REMAX he screwed homeowners for decades until the internet finally killed him."
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June 28th, 2010 at 12:42 pm 43
Wowza
New Listings 79
Price Changes 97
Sold Listings 129
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June 28th, 2010 at 12:54 pm 44
@paulb.:
Wow, we might get a chance at the first >100% S/L day this year. (Finally…)
No doubt "Beat the HST" was strong this past weekend.
Fascinating, just fascinating.
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June 28th, 2010 at 12:55 pm 45
How is SuperDumbBull getting comments with postive score count? lol… is he annoymizing his IPs and voting himself up? He must be a realtor with tons of time on his hands. =)
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June 28th, 2010 at 12:55 pm 46
@Bilbo Bloggins:
MLS sells your home, realtor doesn’t.
Open up MLS and half the realtors will be broke.
I guarantee it…..
WHo cares! Google will put them all out of work in a few years, and it's about time!
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June 28th, 2010 at 12:56 pm 47
See bears, premature parade plan means rain every time. FIFA hifi fans buying big time. big time.
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June 28th, 2010 at 1:01 pm 48
@patriotzed: "You don’t sign a contract with a car salesman when you’re looking to buy a car do you? Or with the guy at Best Best when you’re looking for a new TV?"
What a terrible analogy. You don't enter into any contract with the RE seller's agent. But if you used a car buyer to help your car search and shopping, you might want a contract with him, depending on the value of the deal.
Buying RE can be a very vague and variable process. It can take anywhere from 2 hours to 2 years. Some people may want to have a contract with their agent outlying the responsibilities, limitations, outcomes, and costs. If you do not have a contract, all you have is a verbal agreement, which SHOULD be enough in an ideal world, but is not always.
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June 28th, 2010 at 1:03 pm 49
@SuperSmartBull:
Hey dumb dumb, your mortgage payment is due.
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June 28th, 2010 at 1:08 pm 50
Jimbo Says:
June 28th, 2010 at 12:55 pm
"How is SuperDumbBull getting comments with postive score count? lol… is he annoymizing his IPs and voting himself up? He must be a realtor with tons of time on his hands. =)"
He is getting votes because he is hilarious! (People need to lighten up) Also his posts are more revelant than 90% of the ones on here. That being said, his last one was kinda tired. Once the World Cup is over he'll need some fresh material to continue getting votes. This is a fickle crowd!
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June 28th, 2010 at 1:10 pm 51
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June 28th, 2010 at 1:30 pm 52
42. i don't think the internet will kill the realtor if they allow for people to bypass them. This would be true in other fields such as financial planners. Car salesman, travel agents etc. Each field has been affected by internet competition but when it comes to big purchases people will always go to an expert for help. Some won't. It will make things more competitive but it won't kill the industry. I think the problem that most people here have with realtors is not that they exist but that many are not really experts. But I find to many people here give a pass to financial planners. I find this field is full of the biggest bozos yet no one ever questions them.
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June 28th, 2010 at 1:40 pm 53
@Anonymouse:
Ozzie Jizzbag has a nice ring to it.
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June 28th, 2010 at 2:10 pm 54
Dammit,
paulb got the numbers mixed from top to bottom.
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June 28th, 2010 at 2:14 pm 55
Just the last of the pre-approved suckes trying to beat the deadline.
They'l all be gone after July.
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June 28th, 2010 at 2:16 pm 56
realpaul:
The Canadian public is truly naive'.
The RCMP lives more on mythology (aka we alwys get our man)than realism. Many do NOT understand that the RCMP are simply a public servants that contract out their services to various local gov'ts. Control of this service is located back East.
The RCMP had a role in Canada's evolution,but the transience of its members equate with disconnect with the given jurisdiction its members are stationed.
I say disband the RCMP, and go to a system of regional policing whereby members can establish roots in their community. The RCMP's old role of chasing "mad trappers" etc. is a bit passe'.
The G-20 BS in Toronto is a joke. It shows how impotent the " authorities " are when a threat actively manifests itself. The cops are basically overtime $$$ suckers, its a pathetic joke. Harper is a moron for hosting G-20…why risk the exposure of impotence ?
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June 28th, 2010 at 2:28 pm 57
Re: The Olympic Village
I hope that the plaintiffs win. It's getting to the point that if the developers are listed as defendant's in the pre-sale, the developers win in knee-jerk fashion. This simply leads to sloppy legal decisions.
Why are developers allowed the so -called flexibility to change what the buyers assume they were buying?
I say make the developers more accountable right down to the brass tacks. Or, more succintly, if it was beyond reaonable to assume that the purchaser was to get granite countertops and stainles steel appliances, fake granite formica and galvanized metal don't cut it.
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June 28th, 2010 at 2:32 pm 58
Bull for Mayor @ 50.
Agreed totally. Superbull's humor & sarcasm are of such comic relief but apparently not appreciated by many uptight posters here. Many did not pick up his earlier pepperoni-pizza-business-Hummer theme either.
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June 28th, 2010 at 2:44 pm 59
RCMP fans:
Wake up.
40% of the Canadian RCMP work in BC.
Richmond is a training ground for Federal RCMP due to it's super – duper multiculturalism. There is a greater than 30 % chance a Richmond RCMP has a French/Quebec accent. Probably a greater than 75 % chance a richmond RCMP is less than 25 years old and won't be around in 2 years.
RCMP's contract in many BC jurisdictions is up next year. Hope many Local Gov'ts have the cajones to say goodbye and employ a regional force. How many are even aware BC once had its own police force, but folded and the Mounties filled the void ?
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June 28th, 2010 at 2:57 pm 60
It is obvious to me that "boomtime" "supersmart" etc is actually a bear posting straw man arguments under the guise of being a bull.
Consider it parody.
It doesent bother me, (mostly because it makes me chuckle), but I could understand people being frustrated with the noise factor
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June 28th, 2010 at 3:12 pm 61
@D. Bone: How's that whole anti-competition thing going against CREA anyways?Is'nt there a hearing or tribunal coming up?
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June 28th, 2010 at 3:18 pm 62
The RE recovery in the US has died despite Trillions of dollars of stimulus being thrown at it. Our own government has spent itself dry and is in a hurry to back up as we saw by the performance of Harper at the G20. Inflation is raging, savings at zero, unemployment up, taxes are going up again and yet you still have a substantial number of idiots who think that RE will go up forever? Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha. Other governments have built their recovery projections on the back of a real estate boom…guess what happened. Sorry suckers….but it ain't differant here. Read all about it.
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/buckler/buckler…
BTW……… N.O, yer absolutley right. Out wit 'em.
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June 28th, 2010 at 3:21 pm 63
Re: COV
Keep in mind the Provincial Laws governing Local Gov'ts.
Most Local Gov'ts have a weasel clause that gives protects them via a 6 month statute of limitations.
In other words, once you define a case, you have 6 months to file it or you are SOL. Watch for other cases to try and beat the deadline.
Regardless, any moron that buys any political beast mired in political BS like the OV drank too much of the RE kool-aid.
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June 28th, 2010 at 3:24 pm 64
@Devore:
Um, you said "car buyer", not "car salesman". By that I assume you mean someone whose profession is to act as an advocate for people buying cars, not to sell them for a commission. Anyone receiving a sales commission is acting as an advocate for the seller. I said hiring a realtot when you're looking around for a house is analogous to hiring a car salesman when you're looking around for a car.
Can a leopard change his spots?
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June 28th, 2010 at 3:28 pm 65
The G -20 and the World Cup ?
20 World Wankers meet under the camouflage of the World cup.
Coincidence?
Who cares what these liars spout, they are probably wearing diapers as the world economy dives.
No such thing as a coincidence in politics.
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June 28th, 2010 at 3:36 pm 66
We need to contract in the Italian Police, they're doing a much better job on the Chinese money laundering file.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/28/chine…
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June 28th, 2010 at 3:39 pm 67
Local bloggers have a quick rub & tug with Rennie
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2010/06/discussion-wit…
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June 28th, 2010 at 3:44 pm 68
pre-sale contracts state that the developer can change the finishings, and that there can be an up to 5% size change in the floor plans. Anything above 5%, the buyer will be credited $x per lost square footage.
A contract is a contract. trust me, its not because the marble appears a different colour that these people want out of their contracts, its because they cant afford to close on their unit.
its the buyers fault. dont buy what you cant afford.
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June 28th, 2010 at 3:48 pm 69
@patriotz: "Anyone receiving a sales commission is acting as an advocate for the seller."
Note that car salesmen still need approval from the owner before committing to a deal. They will try to maximize price because they operate off commission above a base price, not necessarily a percentage of full price. Otherwise they would have incentive to sell in as high a volume as possible.
Realtors are entirely commission based above the first $100K. They therefore have very little incentive to get the seller the absolute highest price, other than a seller will fire them if they don't perform. From what I have seen, the selling agent is pressuring the seller to lower the price just as much as a buyer to raise the price, to make the deal happen.
From my experience, Realtors are mostly working for themselves and their firms and not necessarily for anyone else. Car salesmen? Not so much, but that's because car dealership owners are shrewd. The same cannot be said for homeowners or the commission structure offered to Realtors would be different.
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June 28th, 2010 at 3:53 pm 70
@Anon: Great link! Here's a great exchange on the old Eldo development on Kingsway/Nanaimo:
How many cups of coffee for a little slice of the old El Dorado?
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June 28th, 2010 at 4:08 pm 71
@bridgeman: quoting condo owner's rant:
This guy has unwittingly gave the economic reason why renting is supposed to be more expensive than owning.
And the reason that owning is currently more expensive than renting is simply that owners are willing to pay too much.
So who's responsible for owners taking on all the risks and still paying more? Look in the mirror, Charlie.
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June 28th, 2010 at 4:10 pm 72
@Anon:
Ah, several more shameless plugs for 2300 Kingsway by the Condo Queen.
"Feel the value".
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June 28th, 2010 at 4:26 pm 73
What the…
New Listings 192
Price Changes 193
Sold Listings 192
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June 28th, 2010 at 4:40 pm 74
@paulb.:
Paulb says "what the"
we all know its HST, but it does seem kinda shocking doesent it? I am very interested to see what happens throughout July.
I'm prepared for the truth…whatever the trend.
As a side note, Another thing is that I have noticed that the ratios are generally more bullish on Monday-Tuesday, and then become bearish on thursday-friday. This is based on 5 weeks of just observing.
This is still very very unusual.
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June 28th, 2010 at 4:43 pm 75
@paulb.:
Great Scott!!!!!!
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June 28th, 2010 at 4:53 pm 76
@paulb.:
Is this what's called a a "Normal or Balanced Market"?
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June 28th, 2010 at 5:03 pm 77
I was accused of being to truthful about the Police tactics in TO. Lo an Behold it turns out I'm just a bit faster on the uptake than my detractors. Duh !!! Heres a quote from a real thinker out of the US.
"A few readers wrote in that they were appalled by the protesters at the G20 – the burned out police pictures and such. But wait! As a report from Global Research points out, the odds that the crowds were incited by police/agent provocateurs is very high. You see, by whipping up crowds, the police get bigger budgets and the general public is scared away from meaningful protest for fear of official reaction.
Almost too convenient the cruisers being left in camera view – and I'd love to see if the cruisers which were damaged were high mileage units…such would be a dandy investigative piece for a journalist in Toronto, but don't hold your breath. Who had checked out – and abandon those vehicles?
—
The problem with budget projections and purported agent provocateurs is that they are share a common mythical twinge. I remember 'active agents' from the antiwar protest days of the 1970's and I don't seem to recall budget projections ever coming true.
Yet this morning, world stock markets seem to be taking the bait happily, as the MSM decries those who protest, thus obliging the corporate masters of The Game. It's all about perception management…
We live in a world where perception is reality – and to the aware observer, this weekend didn't offer many incisive new insights into reality. "
http://urbansurvival.com/week.htm
I've pointed out a lot of holes in the fabric for people. These are people who can't think for themselves and are afraid to confront reality. For example:
1) I outed the sewage issue and people were outraged with my 'lies'. The city would never do that they cry…….Turns out I was right and the government has had to take itself to court to sort out the on going problem. David Suzuki found that 90% od Bay sealife show signs of cancerous lesions. Don't hate the message dweebs.
2) I watched Robert Djikanski getting tortured to death by four booze fueled maniacs and people were outraged that I should say that about the RCMP. It turns out that the officer in charge is a booze fuelled maniac that went on to kill another kid in a DUI that he ran from. The final verdict was that Djikanski was murdered. My bad.
3) Now we see the massive media campaign to cover up the Nazi charge on innocents in TO over the weekend and I have been pilloried for seeing thing as they actually are and not how the dorks, dweebs and dimwits would have them be. Guess what…the lawsuits are piling up. As was the case during the Olympics, most SANE people don't want to have their Charter rights eroded by a bunch of fascist dropouts who are on the public payroll. The lawsuits that have been filed today and into the future will out the police for having been the main perpetrators of violence. The yapping poilticians will change their stories and say they didn't know. The police will lie about their involvement until the end….so whats new. You can bitch and masturbate angrily all you want ….but dipshits…..the truth is going to keep coming whether you like it or not.
Etc etc etc, when are you PC dweebs going to own up to the fact that you're incapable of independant thought and your daddy is going to spank you every chance he gets?
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June 28th, 2010 at 5:06 pm 78
@paulb.:
YES!
This is it.
The last gasp for this crime against humanity of a bubble.
The greatest fools, I do feel sorry for them. The unfortunate part is that the majority of last greatest fools are not investors nor flippers. They are the victims of bad luck and poor knowledge, thinking this is really their last chance to get a house before the prices leave their range forever.
June 28, 2010. The beginning of the end.
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June 28th, 2010 at 5:13 pm 79
Gulf real estate has the potential to go to zero.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0626/Gulf-oil-s…
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Oil-spills-economic…
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June 28th, 2010 at 5:32 pm 80
Thanks baulb,
Looks like some buyers just couln't pass up the FIRST WAVE of price reductions.
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June 28th, 2010 at 5:46 pm 81
realpaul:
One reason property taxes go up is POLICE DEPT's go OVER budget…aka OVERTIME.
I recall a VPD recruiting campaign that stated the average cops can expect to get $15,000 in OVERTIME.
The whole system is created to be a failure for the tax paying public, thus a success for those employed within it.
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June 28th, 2010 at 5:48 pm 82
New Listings 210
Price Changes 197
Sold Listings 200
HST eh? I guess we will find out!
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June 28th, 2010 at 5:53 pm 83
Where can I get a bumper sticker?
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June 28th, 2010 at 5:54 pm 84
@curious lurker:
Even it still might look like that Vancouver has inexhaustible supply of the greatest fools on the entire planet (at least something about "it's different here") the end is reality, it's over. You are right.
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June 28th, 2010 at 5:57 pm 85
@paulb.:
a day more to go to 19K?
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June 28th, 2010 at 6:20 pm 86
@realpaul:
"Gulf real estate has the potential to go to zero."
If they do go to zero I'll buy 3.
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June 28th, 2010 at 6:26 pm 87
Best place on meth Says:
June 28th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
@realpaul:
“Gulf real estate has the potential to go to zero.”
If they do go to zero I’ll buy 3.
=========
And my huzzba buy tree !!!!!!
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June 28th, 2010 at 6:27 pm 88
Driving in China: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=QESfEd180rQ
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June 28th, 2010 at 6:31 pm 89
What's with the period after paulb.'s username. I smell a rat.
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June 28th, 2010 at 6:35 pm 90
Ah nevermind, I guess paulb. is the normal spelling. Usually that's a sure fire impostor trick.
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June 28th, 2010 at 6:35 pm 91
If they do go to zero I’ll buy 3.
=========
And my huzzba buy tree !!!!!!
& a partridge in a pear tree
one giant L-I-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y
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June 28th, 2010 at 6:39 pm 92
@paulb.: can we maybe copy CNBC and put up a funky 3-D green glass graph on this website…one that rotates every 2 seconds to another graph with a "whoosh" sound transition…cause i'm an american and my attention span is only 2 seconds long.
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June 28th, 2010 at 6:42 pm 93
@NO-LYMPICS: #88
Hilarious video, but clearly that was the intersection of #3 Road and Westminster Hwy.
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June 28th, 2010 at 6:45 pm 94
@paulb.: with listings still > sales, i feel like i'm on a team that can never lose.
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June 28th, 2010 at 6:52 pm 95
Paulb, it has got to be the HST. Any transaction in the pipeline for new construction is going to be brought forward to avoid the additional taxation.
The last gasp of a very weak market.
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June 28th, 2010 at 6:58 pm 96
REALPAUL gets my vote
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June 28th, 2010 at 7:08 pm 97
Given that the HST comes into effect on Thursday and Wednesday is a holiday, it would be shocking if there [i]weren't[/i] a lot of subjects being lifted and sales closing today and tomorrow.
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June 28th, 2010 at 7:12 pm 98
These stats are funny. It's like "new listing" and "sold listings" are 2 hockey teams. "sold" has had a crappy season, they almost never win. Today "sold" was about to have its first win in months, but then their goaler fucked up and "new" scored a bunch of goals late in the 3rd period.
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June 28th, 2010 at 7:14 pm 99
@NO-LYMPICS:
Why would you want plaintiffs to win? This just gives power to the flippers and speculators to continue their reckless behaviour. There would be no downside risk. Just put down a deposit and if the market falls then sue to get out of the contract. Heck, even I would get in on that racket.
As for the developers, they need flexibility to make changes to their original plans. Some people may see this as sinister but the reality is that plans have to change and adapt during construction. Problems arise all the time and plans need to be modified. You should watch more HGTV porn station like some of us jizzbags.
Calling this a bit early, aren't you? Look, we're all licking our chops but until I see some real bearish data, I'm not putting the bib on just yet. Yes, listings are high but until we see significant price declines (more than just one moonth and preferably with benchmark data), nobody can possibly call this a bear market. I do not consider asking price reductions to be real price declines.
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June 28th, 2010 at 7:22 pm 100
@Anonymouse: You don't see going from a frenzy of over asking bids to 100+ daily listing price reductions in a matter of months as bearish?
Maybe you'll see things differently if you try pulling your head out your a$$.
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June 28th, 2010 at 7:32 pm 101
Anonymouse:
I'm not talking about flippers, but people who bought on good faith and then get something different.
That's why pre-sales are BS, the product should be in place prior to purchase.
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June 28th, 2010 at 7:44 pm 102
@NO-LYMPICS:
Like there aren't any existing condos for sale?
People buying pre-sales are speculators – all of them – and they are making a bet that prices are going up. The way things are supposed to work economically is that they should get a discount for taking on extra risk. It's their choice to buy or not buy at the offered price, and if things don't turn out the way they planned, TFB. The only obligation the developer has is to deliver what the contract specified, and that can be just about anything.
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June 28th, 2010 at 8:04 pm 103
Are the Chinese more interested in our real estate or our gold?
http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/view/mineweb/en/pa…
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June 28th, 2010 at 8:43 pm 104
@NO-LYMPICS: That was pure entertainment. What intersection in Richmond is that?
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June 28th, 2010 at 8:48 pm 105
NO #87, The problem in the Gulf States bordering the freaking biblical catastrophe ( notice I didn't say 'spill' or 'leak' or 'accident' as if it was a drink knocked over on the sundeck like the press has been soft selling it to be) is that as it says in the article, if a strong hurricane pushes the oil up over the berms and into the residential areas then the areas (entire cities and the coastal community will have to be evacuated as being so toxic that they are uninhabitable. And buddy…this is just the start of hurricane season, it's supposed to be an active one and Obama and his pal at BP can do nothing to control the weather or the message of a disater on that scale. I think the government is trying to sell the happy face argument and show whats being done daily to keep the message small. But the fact is that it's day sixty and hundreds of thousands of gallons are gushes and pouring and polluting and killing the ocean and the wildlife everyday. The good time stories about the crab fisher being paid out a few thousand is just a smokescreen. There are millions of homes and condo's which may have to be evacuated in those states and once they are polluted they would have to be torn down……by Haz Mat workers who don't smoke and don't mind dying young. Oil and its bi products are among the most highly carcinogenic substances on the planet when a person is in direct contact with it. Good Bye Florida real estate if a big hurricane off the coast of Africa comes barrelling in like Katrina did.
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June 28th, 2010 at 8:58 pm 106
Oh sure you all think accident so funny ha-ha. Put all my hot money in auto body shop and personal injury law firm, now I buy westside vancouber town.
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June 28th, 2010 at 9:06 pm 107
Paul Krugman expects depression
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/28/g20
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June 28th, 2010 at 9:26 pm 108
@chip:
Actually Chip, although many of those destroying property were likely just the run of the mill angry disenfranchised protester there were proven instances in the Pittsburgh riots last year where many agent provocateurs were used in order to give the police an excuse to move on the larger crowds. This ploy almost always backfires anyway and gives the world the impression that the police state is real and a danger to their rights.
In any case 1 billion dollars is ridiculous. Anyone hear Sarkozy state that when they get the meetings in France next year it will cost 1/10th the amount spent in Canada.
Why are some people here so willing to support the mainstream media explanations of current events? Yes they slam the media as liars on the subject of real estate.
I don't think the problem is with realpaaul. I think its with people here who obey propaganda and whose analytical skills have been dulled or deadened. I wish everyone were made to take courses on political science or marketing. The manipulation in the media is so obvious to some but 95% of the sheep out there absorb BS like a sponge
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June 28th, 2010 at 9:28 pm 109
#105 realpaul:
I agree….
Saw a news feature where an MD was interviewed who had done a study on the Exxon Valdez spill. Many of the clean-up workers have developed cancers.
This BP spill will have far reaching effects. Wildlife, ways of life (ie fishing and tourism etc.)and RE will collapse.
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June 28th, 2010 at 9:34 pm 110
106 Kim Jong-il buy 3 Says:
June 28th, 2010 at 8:58 pm
Oh sure you all think accident so funny ha-ha. Put all my hot money in auto body shop and personal injury law firm, now I buy westside vancouber town.
=================
Well, your soccer team sucks and got the boot. You didn't let your own people watch the game except for a few microseconds of bootlegged cable. what a plick !!!
Why don't you sell helmets and seat belts to those Chinese cyclists instead of laughing ?
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June 28th, 2010 at 9:40 pm 111
#102 patriotz:
So…we agree to agree?
The builder should build on speculation, not the buyer buy on speculation. Builders would then be far more conservative. Kick out the CMHC, and turn the screws on offshore non resident buyers.
Stir…serves thousands .
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June 28th, 2010 at 10:07 pm 112
realpaul
keep up the good work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgYf_bFlrQ4
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June 28th, 2010 at 10:10 pm 113
I think, obviously, it has to be Jizzbear.
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June 28th, 2010 at 10:13 pm 114
This journalism travesty is becoming really sad…
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/real-estate/…
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June 28th, 2010 at 10:18 pm 115
@Anonymous:
Paul Krugman has been predicting doom since about 1998.
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June 28th, 2010 at 10:20 pm 116
@Raguz:
The first indication of their lack of honesty is naming a Vancouver newspaper the Sun. We don't have one of those here.
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June 28th, 2010 at 10:22 pm 117
Wow. Lots of folks with matching tinfoil hats on here tonight. Bored with Garth's blog? Gold holding stable? &-&
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June 28th, 2010 at 11:01 pm 118
It's funny that many of you are disgusted at the mainstream media and realtors for pushing absolute bullshit, but it's crazy to think that the government and corporations are doing the same. Although some of the things said here are a bit overboard, almost everything you hear and see on the news is backed by an agenda. But anyways, this is a real estate blog, and I would prefer if this discussion were elsewhere.
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June 28th, 2010 at 11:06 pm 119
@realpaul:
…….and I'll say what I said to you more than once. I met Zophia Digjitski when she lived in Logan Lake, prior to moving to Kamloops, and the insufferable alcoholic didn't give a rats ass about her chain smoking, alcoholic, criminal record holding, dead beat dad son.
The fact that you defend these vermin over the RCMP demonstrates your hypocrisy. You are motivated by political correctness on this issue more than the "politically correct" minded you so often take swipes at.
As much as I dislike the cops myself, given the same situation I would use a taser over wrestling with some stinking slob on a marble airport floor.
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June 28th, 2010 at 11:11 pm 120
@NO-LYMPICS:
Over a decade ago, actually almost 15yrs ago a buddy of mine rented a house off #3 road in Richmond. After work we would get a case of beer, sit on his porch and watch almost the same thing. Are you sure this was filmed in China?
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June 28th, 2010 at 11:27 pm 121
Oh oh, prices crater in Revelstoke:
http://www.revelstokecurrent.com/2010/06/28/hopin…
How can that be? I thought that rich Albertans were moving there and displacing all the locals – taking advantage of the free education and healthcare while dad works at home in Alberta? And after all, Revelstoke is hemmed in by the mountains on one side and a big river on the other (oh yea, they have a bridge but don't think about that), and the US border to the south (well, it's within 500 miles) and there not making any more ski resorts (are they?) so they're running out of land. And to top it all off, they have an A&W so everybody wants to live there.
Gee whiz! Who would have thought that rec. property would crater before the rest of the market tanks? Whistler’s next (oops, it’s already happening). My timing for everything else has been wrong: maybe now’s a good time to get my RE license and join the army of 10,000.
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June 29th, 2010 at 12:02 am 122
@No More Gordocracies:
"Why are some people here so willing to support the mainstream media explanations of current events? "
As a former member of the MSM for 15 years I have no illusions about the nature of journalism, and its inevitable and welcome demise in the Internet age.
But having little faith in the intelligence and honesty of the media isn't the same as believing without any evidence the idea that police were manipulating the protesters.
For one, the police today aren't clever enough to pull it off and, two, there are far too many career students, union Neanderthals and over-indulged thugs in Canada who need no help from the police in behaving as if they were plucked out of the Rift Valley circa 150,000BC.
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June 29th, 2010 at 1:34 am 123
Wealthy Chinese put house hunting on Vancouver vacation itinerary
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Wealthy+Chin…
pump media pump … sigh
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June 29th, 2010 at 2:44 am 124
@NO-LYMPICS:
No we disagree. Pre-sales are a good thing, because the pre-sale buyers taking on market risk allow more housing to be built than otherwise would be the case. And the more housing that's built, the better.
The only problem is that the pre-sale buyers are paying too much, and that is simply their problem.
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June 29th, 2010 at 3:23 am 125
@Newcomer:
Well I don't think he's been predicting "doom" that long. Can you give us some links? (He has a column in the NYT you know).
But actually anyone who has been predicting doom since 1998 has been right, because the US has been in a bubble economy almost continuously since then. And the case can be made that the root problem started back under Reagan when both individuals and government in the US started living beyond their means.
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June 29th, 2010 at 7:55 am 126
[...] in this weeks edition of the local ‘Westender’ newspaper, as quoted by bridgeman at vancouvercondo.info 28 Jun 2010 10:20 am [...]
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