The HST effect?
Inventory shared some interesting data with us on Friday:
sales numbers going back to 1995.
Sales numbers for this month up to last Friday continue to be very low, almost reaching back to their 2008 lows, except when it comes to new unit sales, which are lower percentage wise than we’ve seen in the last 15 years. As of Friday new units sales are down at the 25% level.
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July 26th, 2010 at 8:26 am
The first signs of a rational RE market in the lower mainland!
Finally.
July 26th, 2010 at 8:48 am
Now the government can offer some sort of ‘HST relief’ to goose the market again! So the rest of us can carry more of the tax burden, just like how we’re going to be stuck bailing out the CMHC.
July 26th, 2010 at 8:50 am
There was an HST effect all right. A huge amount of demand was pulled ahead into late 2009 and early 2010 by people who had the mistaken belief that HST would result in higher house prices. HST doesn’t apply to existing properties, and since those are the huge majority of listings, the sellers of new properties will have to adjust their prices down so the price net of HST is competitive with existing properties.
Last one over the cliff is a rotten egg!
July 26th, 2010 at 8:51 am
Rational?
well we are getting there. I’d like to see a mandatory 10% DP at minimum for protection. But even then, the minor restrictions imposed are tightening up the system.
without a doubt. 2010 market top—April 18th.
I love the taste of 100% canadian made “Credit Crunch” with a tall glass of milk in the morning.
July 26th, 2010 at 8:57 am
I love the smell of napalm in the morning… The smell, you know that gasoline smell… Smells like, victory
July 26th, 2010 at 9:10 am
US cities giving away land, hoping someone will take it off their hands.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07.....venue.html
And yet the Obama pimps are still printing desperate articles that try to cry ‘rally’. Patritoz I agree, the real estate ‘love parade’ is leaving a lot of mangled bodies in its wake.
July 26th, 2010 at 9:10 am
I’m seeing violent convulsions in the DDD (Developers Deep Discounts)Index.
July 26th, 2010 at 9:38 am
@Best place on meth: Can you expand on your comments please?
Thanks!
July 26th, 2010 at 9:43 am
Well….there’s no HST in Alberta, and right here in Calgary sales are off 45% and we have 17,000 vacant houses and condos sitting around as per the 2010 civic census that was just released……12,000 of which are currently listed for sale.
July 26th, 2010 at 9:48 am
“…except when it comes to new unit sales, which are lower percentage wise than we’ve seen in the last 15 years…”
Wasn’t construction at a standstill 15 years ago? It makes this a different kettle of fish, low sales activity coupled with high inventory increases. Kaboom.
July 26th, 2010 at 9:49 am
@FlipFlop: Don’t get too excited, remember that Irish biochem undergrad? Well she and her cabinet maker boyfriend are coming to Vancouver to snap up those jobs that just can’t be filled by a Canadian biochem undergrad and will soon buy a condo or two in the OV.
Once her friends back home hear of her part time Starbucks barista job and the fact that it only rains 10 months a year here (vs 12 in Ireland) there’ll be planeloads of Irish coming in and buying up everything in sight! /sarcasm
July 26th, 2010 at 9:49 am
Do pre-construction flippers need to charge HST again? Or are the units now not ‘new’ even though they aren’t even completed yet?
July 26th, 2010 at 9:56 am
Digging further into the ‘rise’ in sales it seems that while reported sales of new homes increase ( from what in what time frame is the question), the prices overall continue to fall. Average US prices a quarter of Vanc.
http://www.csmonitor.com/Money.....ep-falling
July 26th, 2010 at 9:57 am
@“A-Sharp” Accountant:
along with 25 year amortizations…
talking to a couple of friends on the weekend, the RE buzz is still alive in my circle:
-one (first time buyer) looking to buy a SFH in east van, is being “helped” by his parents to exceed the 20% DP threshold so that 80% of rental income could be used to qualify
-another is selling his “newish” custom built home to buy a subdividable lot, plans on building 2 homes, 1 to live in the other to sell (story from the friend above)
-one couple (move-up buyers) are planning on buying a house in surrey with 2 mortgage helpers (carriage house and basement suite), with the combined rental income they figure the outstanding mortgage will be $300/month (didn’t get financing details)
buying a home to live-in is one thing but the speculating (first and second example above) needs to stop.
as long as there’s cheap money at play, people seem to be fearless about loading up on debt.
with the BOC unlikely to hike rates to historical levels anytime soon, we need additional measures such as higher DP and shorter ammorts.
July 26th, 2010 at 10:04 am
@Best place on meth:
LOL…keep up the good work!
July 26th, 2010 at 10:05 am
@realpaul: The only reason US new home sales increased in June is because sales in May were revised down, substantially. June sales in the US were the lowest on record, and will probably be revised down as per May.
July 26th, 2010 at 10:09 am
I’ve been seeing a swing to the right on the “OCR continuum”.
OCR= “over caffeinated Realtor” continuum.
July 26th, 2010 at 10:47 am
US sales for March and April were later revised down…probably can expect the same for June…regardless, it’s still the second worst month (after May) since 1963.
Read the Bloomberg article…once you get past the happy headline, it’s all downhill:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/.....casts.html
July 26th, 2010 at 10:49 am
@Jonathon:
As I understand it, HST is charged on the purchase price which is paid to the developer at time of completion. In other words, the buyer of a $500K pre-sale commits to pay ($500K – deposit) + $500K*.12 when the property is completed.
If the pre-sale is flipped the new buyer takes over the purchase and will pay HST at time of completion. But there’s no HST on the flip of the pre-sale contract itself which is a financial asset, just as there is no HST on a stock trade. Or on the purchase of a GIC.
HST is charged on a given good only once. For a dwelling, that’s at time of completion to the first owner. But not when it’s flipped either before or after completion.
July 26th, 2010 at 11:00 am
@fixie guy:
Not at all, in fact starts were near a historical high in 1995, not surprising since prices were also at a historical high at that time. It was in the late 90′s that starts fell off as a result of falling prices.
http://housing-analysis.blogsp.....erson.html
July 26th, 2010 at 11:14 am
@anonymous:
Well good for them. They have lots of choice these days!
July 26th, 2010 at 11:52 am
Where is the post Olympic sales surge?
Every one said that the Olympics were the best thing to happen to Vancouver yet the post Olympic sales have not materialized. They are starting to be comparable to the late 90′s and the one bad financial meltdown year, 2008. We were told that if only a very small percent of all the people watching the Olympics buys then our market should be good for the next 10 years. Vancvouer seems to have a Field of Dreams complex “build it and they will come”. Maybe the houses are full of ghosts and since I am not a believer I can’t see them. Time will tell.
July 26th, 2010 at 11:54 am
What’s the point in comparing sales numbers if you don’t have the inventory figures to hand? So sales are down to 25% of what they were, but maybe that reflects a larger proportion of the available inventory? Perhaps sales of new units are down right now because there are simply fewer of them than there were?
July 26th, 2010 at 12:03 pm
I should clarify – I meant we don’t know from the given invetory stats what the proportion of resale/new is.
July 26th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
@Anoymous: Son, pull your head out of your azz.
July 26th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
“Well….there’s no HST in Alberta, and right here in Calgary sales are off 45% and we have 17,000 vacant houses and condos sitting around as per the 2010 civic census that was just released……12,000 of which are currently listed for sale.”
And check out Calgary’s rentfaster.ca, search by map for rental houses. Rental availability is way, way, way up. It is night and day different from a few years ago, and continues to get better (from a renter’s point of view).
July 26th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
Don’t forget july’s new home sales reflects 2 weeks of june (pre hst) because the figures are always a couple of weeks late. So the numbers could be much worst! The housing market have crashed!
July 26th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
@Dyugle: “Where is the post Olympic sales surge?”
It was in April and May. Sorry if you missed it but it went by pretty fast.
July 26th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
@Tony Danza:
“@Anoymous: Son, pull your head out of your azz.”
OK then, genius, from the figures provided you tell me what the ratio of new:resale *listings* were.
Is it just possible that we’re not seeing an HST effect, we’re seeing a lack of new sales due to a reduced supply of new homes possibly as a result of construction grinding to a halt about 2 years ago? Who knows – the posted stats don’t contain enough information.
July 26th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
I THINK YOU GUYS ARE PRETTY SILLY. I HAVE A DEGREE IN COMMERCE FROM UBC AND I’LL JUST SAY THAT I HAVE A VERY PRESTEGIOUS AND RESPECTIBLE POSITION IN DOWNTOWN VANCOUVER. DON’T WANT TO SAY MORE THAN THAT. IN MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION REAL ESTATE IS A VERY GOOD BUY. MORE PEOPLE ARE MOVING HERE AND THEY AREN’T BUILDING MORE LAND.
ALL OFYOU SHOULD REALLY FIND AN EDUCATED OPINION ON THE SUBJECT AND CHILL OUT.
July 26th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
@Cody: Wow, did they teach you to write in ALL CAPS during your “prestegious” education? Get back to your barista station genius.
July 26th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
@Cody:
Ya…only the truly educated don’t know how to properly spell “prestigious” and “respectable”. Apparently UBC graduates illiterates these days.
July 26th, 2010 at 12:53 pm
@Anoymous: Intelligent people have wasted the last four years arguing with REtards like yourself, if your head is shoved so far up your azz that you’re reduced to arguing about stats from 1995 to somehow support your outdated position on the current RE market then you might as well go join the Ozzie Jurock jerk fest on RET. See ya!
July 26th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
@Anoymous: CMHC publishes starts/completions data for BC and Vancouver. The series is usually pretty volatile so, yes, while there is some chance completions have skyrocketed total inventory seems to be flat to falling which would be odd. It stands to reason the HST has had some effect but it won’t be certain for a few more months.
A 25% sell/new list ratio is significantly below trend; one can refer to it as a “multi-sigma event” without hyperbole.
July 26th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
@jesse:
I love ‘multi-sigma events’ – those are always the best parties! N’er to be forgotten and always spontaneous.
July 26th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
YOU INTERNET TOUGH GUYS MAKE ME LAUGH TRY SAYING THAT TO MY FACE IF YOU EVER GET OUT OF YOUR MOMS BASEMENT AND GET LAID THAT IS HAHA.
July 26th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
More than 17 units listed for sale at Adera’s Pathways, located in the new community at UBC. Building is only two year’s old and units are listed from $639-889,000.
Good luck clowns!
July 26th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
@Cody: Wow.. what an insult to UBC. I graduated from there 20 years ago and we aren’t spoiled ignorant brats like you.
How much experience you have had in the financial field? When’s the last time that you or your clients get burnt? I wish you get out of your “profession” earlier before more people get burnt by your “professional opinion”.
BTW go back 10 years ago, every Wall Street “professional” still think that high-tech stocks are still good buys too. I guess you are too full of yourself to believe that what goes up will go down.
July 26th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
@Cody: BTW.. Dude, I’ve been last night in your mom’s basement and guess what happened?
July 26th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
“IN MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION REAL ESTATE IS A VERY GOOD BUY. MORE PEOPLE ARE MOVING HERE AND THEY AREN’T BUILDING MORE LAND”.
How do you explain viciously low rental yield then? Should rents not be going up dramatically too since this is the best place and there is no more land?
People want to live in Manhattan too, they are not building land, but prices are declining, even in the face of great rental yield support. What does that mean for us?
I’m making the assumption that you are not a troll, and I’m eagerly awaiting a reasonable and professional response.
July 26th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
Re: UBC’s South Campus Neighbourhood
A total of up to 1,989 new residential units are projected for this neighbourhood.
http://www.planning.ubc.ca/uto.....les137.php
July 26th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
Ugh. I just want a place to -live-. Our landlady decided to try to sell the awesome 3 bedroom condo we rent the moment our one year lease was over.
I don’t want to move again so soon. I hate moving! We would never have taken this place if we’d known it was this temporary. She’s asking a hilarious price and I’m sure it won’t sell anytime soon, but it really doesn’t feel like a “home” when you know you’re on borrowed time until the new owners show up. I’ve been looking for a new condo in the same area for a month, yet I haven’t seen anything remotely similar to what we’re living in that allows pets . . . Not one. Single. Unit. It’s soo frustrating.
Everyone keeps talking about how dumb it is to buy right now, and maybe they’re right, and truthfully I’d probably be happy renting forever except — Vancouver is teaching me that even if you have 8 years of fantastic rental references, never pay late and always get your cleaning deposit back, and have the same great-paying job for 8 steady years as well, landlords and rental agencies treat you like scum if you’ve made the poor life choice to *gasp* own cats.
I’m getting really discouraged.
July 26th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Please don’t feed the (obvious) troll.
July 26th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
@Cody:
“I HAVE A DEGREE IN COMMERCE FROM UBC… MORE PEOPLE ARE MOVING HERE AND THEY AREN’T BUILDING MORE LAND.”
Wow. Waste of an education.
They never (or rarely really, there are exceptions) make new land. Most places, both here and in other “bubble” real estate markets around the world are constantly growing. Yet… In nearly every other bubble market things are crashing.
Obviously it would have only taken you two seconds to see the flaw in your “logic” had you bothered to spend a whole two seconds on the subject (or if you understood the concept of logic).
July 26th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
@Cody:
You are not the only one here with a business education, not that education is the prerequisite for having a valid opinion.
July 26th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
“Our landlady decided to try to sell the awesome 3 bedroom condo we rent the moment our one year lease was over.”
@Bette Noire, “try to sell” is the operative phrase here.
July 26th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
I just saw brand new units listed the Olympic village, on prompton, for $1500
Prompton is only asking $1500 which means the amateurs will be asking $1200-2500 for the same units.
Give it a few months and the “most anticipated” project will be cheaper than the old walk ups in fairview!
Falling rental prices and surging demand, aging demographics of the majority of the homeowners, indicates something but I’m not quite sure what it is. Perhaps I should sell my house now? Or is it better to wait for it to drop 50% and then sell because that’s when everyone else is doing it?
I waited until my tech stocks bottomed and I bought the biggest SUV that I could buy in 2001 because I knew that SUV’s would always be a status symbol.
The key is to invest in whatever has performed the best recently.
Real Estate is a good example.
Take a graph from 2004 to 2009 and the change the 4 to a 10 and the 9 to a 15 and you will be able to extrapolate the future gain.
If you don’t understand then you must live in a basement suite..
Or just go talk to a starbucks barista, cab driver, hair stylist, or a realtalker like Bob about the market.
Obviously someone who stands to make $45k in an afternoon, double ending a deal, will give you unbiased advice.
July 26th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
Please don’t feed illiterate trolls.
For all other trolls use your discretion.
July 26th, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Bette Noir- a lot of people are in your predicament.
I am bearish too and have paid the price with serial moves. I decided this time to get a two year lease.
We should have jumped in 2008.
However shoulda woulda coulda doesn’t get anyone anywhere. Living in a RE boom town is stressful for renters, buyers and even owners. There are many more affordable areas in the GV area, as long as commuting down-town is not a problem.
July 26th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
“Wow. Waste of an education”. He can’t spell. He doesn’t have an education.
July 26th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
@Dan
I know her chances of selling are slim, but honestly, would you want to keep living in a place where your landlord’s real estate agent can basically call at any time and announce that within 24 hours they’re bringing strangers through your home?
Maybe I should just leave a bunch of “how to indentify a bedbug” pamphlets laying around.
July 26th, 2010 at 1:53 pm
@patriotz:
“HST is charged on a given good only once.”
What about used cars? No more sales tax?
July 26th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
Hello Dear VancouverCondoInfoites!
Sorry, long time no post. But I am still here, reading all your posts/comments daily.
So these three weeks we are in Israel, visiting the family. And I get asked, of course, how is Canada… I try to avoid the real estate topic as it is too complex to engage. And guess what?
In Israel house prices have climbed a lot as well. But when I make the mistake of mentioning our Vancouver bubble, what do I get?
IT’S DIFFERENT HERE!
1. The rich French Jews are coming to Tel-Aviv and buying all the condos.
2. Everybody wants to live in Israel (that one really kills me).
3. The Arabs here are having 10-12 children.
4. We are running out of land.
Can’t I have at least a bubble-less vacation???
Uhmm… Cody, it’s considered rude to write in all caps when you say nonsense without a spell checker
Best regards
arit
July 26th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
@Best place on meth: It’s not HST charged on used cars. It’s still a provincial tax that the BC gov’t raised from 7% to 12%.
July 26th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
@Bette Noire: Make sure you get your month free rent as mandated by the Residential Tenant Act… I believe it’s called a Section 49 Notice – Landlord’s use of Property… Under section 51…
51 (1) A tenant who receives a notice to end a tenancy under section 49 [landlord's use of property] is entitled to receive from the landlord on or before the effective date of the landlord’s notice an amount that is the equivalent of one month’s rent payable under the tenancy agreement.
Lots of amateur landlords have no idea about this section of the RTA… Make sure you stick it to her.
July 26th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
@Cody:
I THINK YOU GUYS ARE PRETTY SILLY. I HAVE A DEGREE IN COMMERCE FROM UBC AND I’LL JUST SAY THAT I HAVE A VERY PRESTEGIOUS AND RESPECTIBLE POSITION IN DOWNTOWN VANCOUVER. DON’T WANT TO SAY MORE THAN THAT. IN MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION REAL ESTATE IS A VERY GOOD BUY. MORE PEOPLE ARE MOVING HERE AND THEY AREN’T BUILDING MORE LAND.
ALL OFYOU SHOULD REALLY FIND AN EDUCATED OPINION ON THE SUBJECT AND CHILL OUT.
===========================
I guesss UBC didn’t teach you to not SHOUT WITH CAPS while typing. =)
ps. I also have a commerce degree from U of T, and in my professional opinion, now is the absolute worst time to buy real estate. Cheers, I’ll have some of the cool-aid you’re drinking. =)
July 26th, 2010 at 2:36 pm
@Peter Pan: Unfortunately section 49 and 51 don’t apply to expired lease situations. If the landlord takes over the property for their use at the expiration of a lease there’s no compensation owing to the tenant.
July 26th, 2010 at 2:40 pm
@jesse:
“It stands to reason the HST has had some effect but it won’t be certain for a few more months.”
Yes, it would definitely make sense, I’m just pointing out the the numbers don’t prove it.
July 26th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
“I know her chances of selling are slim, but honestly, would you want to keep living in a place where your landlord’s real estate agent can basically call at any time and announce that within 24 hours they’re bringing strangers through your home?”
@Bette Noire, Good point. But then again, if she doesn’t call you can beat her down on the rent, lol. But to answer your question, I’d move on in the circumstances, but to another rental.
As for pets, I was browsing rentfaster.ca in Calgary just for fun and was astonished to find a quite new home in a pricey neighbourhood with rent reduced, kids OK, pets OK. Times are changing here, and I suspect they will in Vancouver as well.
July 26th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
@Tony Danza: D’OH!
Guess it shows a little legal knowledge is a dangerous thing…
July 26th, 2010 at 2:50 pm
@Tony Danza: I’d say try bluffing his landlady by printing a copy of the act and highlighting relevant sections… It’s worth a try.
July 26th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
Haiku for you
Real estate goes up
I buy three husband buy three
Then we will be rich
July 26th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
“Maybe I should just leave a bunch of “how to indentify a bedbug” pamphlets laying around.”
@Bette Noire, here is a link to a one-page colour PDF published by the Vancouver Coastal Health authority entitled “Guide to bed bug control”.
http://tinyurl.com/2aok6d7
July 26th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
If it starts happening more than once per week, get compensation. There are reasonable limits to this provision.
July 26th, 2010 at 3:11 pm
@“A-Sharp” Accountant:
A-Sharp, I don’t know how to compose a Haiku, but let’s pretend that I do, so the next tree lines go like this:
Oops, real estate now going down
I could not sell tree, my ‘ex-husband’ could not sell tree
Would you like fries with your burger?
July 26th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
@Bette Noire:
If you do have to leave that place still apply to places that says no cats. They want a steady rent cheque more than anything else. The days of them wanting everything and giving nothing are slowly changing. The place I live in now never took any pets either, after meeting me and seeing how good of a rental candidate i was the landlord finally caved and rented it to us. He even said “no way, sorry” after I told him we had a dog. I worked him hard and finally got the place.
Apply first, THEN tell them you have a cat. If you are solid they will take you AND whiskers!
July 26th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
Just to add that this no pet thing in Vancouver is absolutely ridiculous! I have a dog and two kids, if landlords only knew what kids do to a place they would take pets and say no kids! I have seen a gang of marauding 6 year olds in my house trash the place in 15 minutes or less. Hethens!
My dog lies in a corner and does nothing. My kids continually trash the place bigtime!
July 26th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
@“A-Sharp” Accountant:
Price drops by truckloads
Agents waiting by the phone
Rich Asians vanished
July 26th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
Yeah, definitely don’t narrow your search too much, force them to reject you. In the past I have gotten a place that said “no pets” in the ad, and I have gotten a rent reduction. And that was before inventory spiked.
If you are a good tenant who knows the market, you can dictate terms. When I left a house I was renting, I talked to the landlord about what kind of applicants he was getting. He said 90% were people he wouldn’t even consider renting to. People with no documented income, obvious drug users and the like. Good landlords would rather have a tenant who won’t cause problems than an extra hundred dollars a month, and a cat can be negotiated in with a higher damage deposit.
July 26th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
@DaMann:
“Just to add that this no pet thing in Vancouver is absolutely ridiculous!”
Yes, I love it when my neighbours’ dogs bark loudly at the slightest movement in the hallway, or urinate in the elevators/lobby because their owners couldn’t get them outside in time.
July 26th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
@Anoymous:
Yah as opposed to all those quiet children that never run around or scream. Ever lived next door to a bunch of kids or underneath a family? A lot of noise, which is ok of course, they are kids.
You seem like one of those people that punish thousands for the actions of one. Nice one that. There are always bad dog owners as there are bad renters with no pets. What about all the puke and crap in the hallways from drunks getting home late. Should rental applicants be subject to no alchohol consumption as well?
This has to be one of the most anal cities anywhere. No idea where the “laid back west cost” tag comes from, sure as hell not from Vancouver.
July 26th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
Why will the bubble in China burst? It seems like it’s never-ending.
Have you heard of pre-selling wine???
http://www.mpfinance.com/htm/F.....b_eba1.htm
The Lafite wine pre-sales in China went up from $3000 Yuan in 2008 to $12000 in May and then $14000 in July.
July 26th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
http://www.mpfinance.com/htm/F.....a_eaa1.htm
Bubble in Hong Kong again. Can you imagine people pushing the real estate back up to 1997 level, having withstood a 70% crash from 1997 to 2003. Those people already forgot about the Asian financial crisis in mere 7 years?
Commercial retail space sold within 8 months at $24M HKD profit.
Presales of 345 sq.ft unit bought 2 weeks ago at $2.5M and just sold at 2.7M
Another presales unit bought 1 week ago 2.35M and just sold at 2.56M
July 26th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
We’re definitely going to keep on renting; buying would just be silly right now. I guess I just want to be whiny about it because I hate moving. I appreciate all the advice on landlord/tenant issues (for what it’s worth, I think we’re on month-to-month now, as she got another year’s worth of checks from us at the beginning of June). Hopefully we can persuade some of the no-pet condo owners to consider us. I suppose I can use the MLS listing to our advantage, and link prospective landlords to it. “See how nice we decorate, and how clean our bathrooms are?”
I just got back from a showing at a nice new building, with an apartment that’s about 200 sq feet smaller than this one. It’s okay, but I don’t love it. We can live there if we have to, but it irks me to pay the same amount of money for a smaller unit just because the building is new. It is a bit closer to the SkyTrain though, and that’s important as my husband works downtown.
I think what I’ll probably do is send off a mail to our current landlady, telling her that as she’s selling the property, we will need to get references from her -immediately-. She can see from the photos her agent took that we keep the place gorgeous and clean, and I hope she understands that we are under no legal responsibility to keep it that way just because she’s showing it, but we will because basically we’re just nice. And perhaps she’ll consider how financially unpleasant it would get to have this place sitting here, not sold AND with no rent coming in month after month, and agree to work something out with us.
July 26th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
@Tony Danza:
When a lease expires and it does not specifically state that the tenant must move at expiry, the tenancy automatically reverts to a month to month tenancy. Therefore the one month compensation is required.
July 26th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
Let’s rip into these stupid couples for buying in a bubbly market! They deserve it!
http://www.theprovince.com/bus.....story.html
July 26th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
How big is your building? There’s bound to be another rental in there, if you like the building and the floorplan and the neighbourhood.
July 26th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
@DaMann: I guess you haven’t looked for a rental lately. Friends of mine said most places they called in their recent rental search asked “how many kids do you have and what are their ages” before anything else. When they told the truth the place was described as too small/not kid “friendly”/already rented etc. Some of these were professional management companies.
They finally started lying and saying it was only for two and eventually got a place and added the kids on to the contract after signing. Tough luck to the landlord.
Some people in this city are really f’d in the head.
July 26th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
@Anonymous: Yes, as long as you checked the appropriate box on the lease contract. There is also a box for the rental agreement being terminated on expiry. Either way it’s difficult/impossible to get the one month with a lease contract.
July 26th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
I predict 1500+ sales for the month of August
August Units 1994-2009
1994 = 2159 = 44%
1995 = 2326 = 47%
1996 = 2141 = 48%
1997 = 2096 = 55%
1998 = 1589 = 49%
1999 = 2002 = 59%
2000 = 1805 = 51%
2001 = 2659 = 77%
2002 = 2558 = 73%
2003 = 3413 = 88%
2004 = 2570 = 61%
2005 = 3800 = 82%
2006 = 3092 = 65%
2007 = 3493 = 75%
2008 = 1611 = 35%
2009 = 3496 = 74%
2010 = ???? = ??%
July 26th, 2010 at 4:48 pm
@DaMann
While I don’t disagree with you, it is a little more difficult for a landlord to say “No Kids” than it is to say “No Pets.” To disallow kids is actually illegal in most cases (w/ few exceptions) and they could be taken to court over it if a prospective tenant so desired. When it comes to pets this is not the case and they are free to reject them if they so choose.
July 26th, 2010 at 4:59 pm
@Cody: All that supposed education and the biggest idiot ever to post here. Slinging frys isn’t a profession by the way.
July 26th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
@Googles:
Owning a pet is not a human right, it’s a lifestyle choice. Renters who choose to own pets have to understand it’s going to limit their choices in accommodation. And before someone calls me a big meanie, I used to rent to people with pets.
July 26th, 2010 at 5:01 pm
@Bette Noire:
We had a similar sort of situation. We were in a one year lease, 6 months into it the landlord called, freaked out because the market was dropping (this was mid-2008 I think). We didn’t want to move, they changed their minds about selling, but bad for them, as soon as our lease was up we were out of there. Guess what…we saw the place listed on MLS for a couple months, no buyers, I suppose, because suddenly it showed up on craigslist as a rental (and $200 less per month than what we rented it for!!!) Your landlord may freak out once they realize that you’re leaving and be willing to negotiate something…it is definitely NOT pleasant for them to sit there bleeding cash every month while the thing sits vacant, and unsold. And there’s no way they can rent it to a new tenant while it’s for sale. I wonder if they thought you’d just sit back and wait while it was for sale? This seems to be common with many landlords, they don’t realize that they can’t have their cake and eat it too!
July 26th, 2010 at 5:02 pm
@Michel Foucault: The article is comparing buying a $600K condo in Yaletown versus a $600K house in Coquitlam. They then say that since everyone works downtown that the Coquitlam place costs more because of transportation costs. Wow.
How about comparing buying a $600K condo in Yaletown to a $400K condo in Coquitlam? Or how about renting? But the Province is getting better with its reporting: they have a false dichotomy and jumping the shark in a single article.
My bet is the developer/advertisers in the Province figured out sales are now so slow they might actually start losing money again. I wish I could say this article is a joke but bird cage liners like that are par for the course in Vancouver’s MSM.
July 26th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
@jesse: They also ignored the fact that condos will face special assessments but used $600+/mth for maintenance on the house. Yes, the numbers were skewed in the favour of the condo. Give it time, it’s much easier to live in a condo when your kid (only one that is) is still very young.
July 26th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
New Listings 200
Price Changes 131
Sold Listings 119
July 26th, 2010 at 5:23 pm
Nice numbers for a Monday.
Love those price reductions.
July 26th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
@paulb.:
The thing that shocks me is the level of new listings!!
July 26th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
@Tony Danza:
Once the lease is up it automatically becomes a month to month, unless the contract says the tenant must move out. Since Bette Noire is still living there and did not sign a new lease, it is now a month to month arrangement. And collecting the one month compensation is easy. If the landlord doesn’t pay then the tenant can just withhold the last month’s rent.
July 26th, 2010 at 5:40 pm
@Anonymous: Didn’t realize the lease already expired, I would get my reference letter before going after the month’s rent.
July 26th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
@Bette Noire:
If I were in your position I would:
-Stay put. If the property is overpriced, then you have ZERO to worry about. landlords with renters seem to be less aggressive than vacant landlords.
-negotiate a lower rent due to the uncertainty of it all. Allow pre-set showing schedules. Remind your landlord that statistically speaking, occupied properties sell for a little higher than comparable vacant properties. This is a common strategy in the states called “human staging” and many renters have not even had one showing in years. I would ask for 25% off the rent
Good luck. I doubt you will have to move. You just may have just had a few hundred dollars a month plopped into your lap.
July 26th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
And lots of sales are at fairly low prices.
Example from today:
A 2 bed 1 bath PH Unit, in a 5 year old building in N Van that was listed for 449k just sold for 365k.
July 26th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
@Tony Danza
I’m with Anonymous on this one.
If the landlord doesn’t terminate the tenancy at the end of the 1 year agreement, and doesn’t establish a new rental contract, the tenancy is legally governed by the Residential Tenancy Act of BC.
If the Act says you get a month, I think you’ll get that month.
@Bette
Start looking now; that way you can take your time and find something you like. Nothing worse than having 30 days and ending up taking a place you don’t love. Rental inventory is on the way up and you’re not under the gun, so drive a hard bargain and you may end up pretty happy with where you end up.
July 26th, 2010 at 6:02 pm
@“A-Sharp” Accountant: New listings are really very low.
We are on pace for about 4300 this month. We had 5000 or so in 2uly 2009. More than 7000 in 2008.
July 26th, 2010 at 6:10 pm
@VHB:
Interesting.
How much of this is the: “It will pop back up next spring like it did in 2009″ attitude coming through?
I wonder if developers are as likely to hit the pause or cancel buttons on their projects this time around after being caught in 2009 with nothing to sell? Could there be a continual pump of new product into the market?
I am eagerly awaiting next spring to see what happens.
July 26th, 2010 at 6:25 pm
@“A-Sharp” Accountant: “I am eagerly awaiting next spring to see what happens.”
Yeah. Give me one of the following three and we’ll see how things look.
a) double dip in US
b) higher interest rates in CAN
c) bubble burst / growth recession in China
July 26th, 2010 at 6:30 pm
@DaMann:
DaMann Says:
July 26th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
@Bette Noire:
If you do have to leave that place still apply to places that says no cats. They want a steady rent cheque more than anything else. The days of them wanting everything and giving nothing are slowly changing. The place I live in now never took any pets either, after meeting me and seeing how good of a rental candidate i was the landlord finally caved and rented it to us. He even said “no way, sorry” after I told him we had a dog. I worked him hard and finally got the place.
Apply first, THEN tell them you have a cat. If you are solid they will take you AND whiskers!
+++++++++++++++
My partner has TWO pussies and we had no problem finding a place.
July 26th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
Did someone mention “new product”?
You should see the new product…2 bedroom, 2 level t/h on the corner of Kingsway and Westwood on the PoCo/Coquitlam boundary.
RIGHT BESIDE the railway tracks in a slummy/industrial area.
A whole “complex” that has just begun.
Maybe we ARE running out of land, if they want to develop anything in THAT area. He he…
It’ll be interesting to see how long it takes to sell out to suckers.
Low-mid 300K’s.
July 26th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
Current Inventory?
July 26th, 2010 at 7:42 pm
Black Betty is getting alot of attention from you guys, just pin ‘er down and get it over with.
July 26th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
Market Savvy Prospective Buyer Patiently Watches a Bubble Peak and Begin to Implode –
“I’ve sat on my hands and waited for the market to come to me.”
‘Taipan’ is an Australian commercial real estate developer who is looking to buy a recreation property in a ski resort in BC. Here is part of his story, one of a market savvy prospective buyer patiently watching a bubble form a peak and then begin to implode.
http://wp.me/pcq1o-17D
July 26th, 2010 at 8:20 pm
@everyone
Thanks again for all the advice, I feel much better about our options than I did this morning.
@chilled
LOL cliche misogynist internet troll #245.
July 26th, 2010 at 8:44 pm
‘Taipan’ is an Australian commercial real estate developer who is looking to buy a recreation property in a ski resort in BC”
Well, bully for him. What about people like ME who were born and raised here?
As IF I feel for the guy.
July 26th, 2010 at 8:45 pm
@Whitebear: Re: Lafite pre-sales in China… These are the same guys who put 7-UP in their expensive bordeaux to cut out the tannins…
July 26th, 2010 at 9:00 pm
@Boombust: I don’t think he’s looking for your pity.
July 26th, 2010 at 9:44 pm
@Bette Noire: Bette Noire Says:
July 26th, 2010 at 8:20 pm
@chilled
LOL cliche misogynist internet troll #245.
+++++++++++++
Hardly. You post anonymously under the cloud of Black Betty, with a french twist and think nobody will get it? Post here, but spare us your fantasies, OK? I’m of the belief your landlord wants to kick you out simply because you are a fat cow. No other reason.
July 26th, 2010 at 10:05 pm
chilled, your mom really did a number on you buddy.
July 26th, 2010 at 10:40 pm
@vibe:
Hey, you just get it on with fatty. Try to keep the slapping sounds down, OK?
July 26th, 2010 at 11:04 pm
Actually Googles, it is perfectly legal to restrict children in a strata by law or building scheme as long as it it is the consent of the original strata meeting unit holders. In fact there are plenty of ‘adult only’ complexes around, as many as there are ‘no pet’ clauses. This means that the original strata reflects the amended agreement that no one under a certain age ( usually 18 but can be any age technically) and can also include restrictions on rentals and pets or number of occupants per unit. As long as that is the by law it must be repealed by vote of registered owners if any wishes to amend the original doc.
This is one of the reasons a prospective buyer should read the by laws of any unit very carefully to make sure you’re not buying into a ‘nut factory’ or weighing in to some restriction that comes back to haunt you.
July 26th, 2010 at 11:05 pm
How come Vancouver Real Estate hasn’t tanked like everywhere else? Anyone??? Bueller???
I mean you guys have been predicting a huge correction for a while now, and yet it doesn’t look like it’s coming anytime soon.
July 26th, 2010 at 11:20 pm
@Tony Danza: Unfortunately section 49 and 51 don’t apply to expired lease situations. If the landlord takes over the property for their use at the expiration of a lease there’s no compensation owing to the tenant.
Yes it does. Landlord cannot break a current lease if you’re paying your rent; sections 49 and 51 are simply not needed to protect your rights while during the lease. It is when the lease has expired you’re getting this kind of protection from BC Residential Tenancy Act.
http://www.rto.gov.bc.ca/docum.....nglish.pdf , specifically 12.9: “When a landlord ends a tenancy for landlord’s use of property, the landlord must give the tenant
the equivalent of one month’s rent.”
July 26th, 2010 at 11:44 pm
@ Daddy Fat Stax
Which Canadian markets do you have in mind?
July 26th, 2010 at 11:46 pm
@casual_observer: “It is when the lease has expired you’re getting this kind of protection from BC Residential Tenancy Act. “
It depends. If the lease was written without provisions for default occupancy after the lease expires, the tenant normally cannot get 1 month’s rent because it is assumed they must vacate when the lease expires. BUT… even if all this is true and the landlord happens to communicate in a matter that could be construed as notice prior to the lease ending, it may be interpreted that the lease was in fact going to turn into a month-to-month contract. In that case the landlord may be forced to pay a month’s rent. But check with a lawyer or the RTA for details.
July 27th, 2010 at 7:18 am
It’s the name of a font, you poor sad idiot. I’m a graphic artist. And while I’m wasting time defending myself to a lonely little stranger on the internet, I’ll also reveal that I run every other day and that at 134 lbs I’m near the bottom of the BMI for my height. But even if I were 600 lbs, you, “chilled”, you are at the extreme end of bizarre human behavior to post a recommendation that I GET RAPED FOR RECEIVING HELP ON AN INTERNET REAL ESTATE BLOG.
You do realize you wrote that, right? You didn’t black out or anything, or have your “younger brother” log in and use your account, etc?
Seek help chilled. Seriously, you’re not normal. Really, really not normal. This isn’t how people in healthy mental situations choose to spend their time. You’ve got problems and you need to do something before you end up in an even worse place than you are now.
July 28th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
I think “Chilled” just got pwned.