Friday Free-for-all!

Thanks to everyone who’s using the new VCI story submit feature! We’ve got a few stories lined up for the beginning of next week, but first.. It’s the end of the week and that means it’s time for our regular economic round-up and open topic news thread! Here are a few stories to kick off the discussion:

City attacks Olympic Village developer
New record low for new unit sales in Vancouver
Realtors and Competition Bureau reach a deal
CIBC: House prices most inflated in BC, Alberta and Ontario
Central 1: Vancouver prices to drop 5% in 2011
Canadian Economy goes into reverse
BOC warns on household debt
USA 30 year fixed mortgage rate falls to record low
Irish housing bubble fall out gets worse

So what are you seeing out there? Post your news links, thoughts and anecdotes here and have an excellent weekend!

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Makaya
Makaya
9 years ago

@patriotz:

"The “so what” is that Malaysia, Western Indonesia, and Singapore are effectively one economic unit"

Sorry, but your made-up "one economic unit" doesn't make any sense at all.

"Singapore is a sovereign state but it’s not economically a country in the sense Canada is. The mini-states in Europe like Luxembourg have a high GDP per capita compared to their neighbours too."

Luxembourg, like Singapore, generate most of its GDP from the financial sector. Luxembourg is not "one economic unit" with France and/or Germany as far as I know…

80% of Canada's export trade is generated with the US. Does it make Canada and the US "one economic unit" as well?

I'm done arguing. As we say in my country of origin, "you can't force a donkey that is not thirsty to drink"

patriotz
9 years ago

@Anonymous:

“It’s like judging all of Canada by some polygamist sect in the middle of nowhere, B.C.”

Is there one?

Yes, it's near Creston and your tax dollars are paying to "educate" their children to obey their infallible philanderer, er, "leader".

patriotz
9 years ago

@Makaya:

“No, but Malaysia and Indonesia do.”

So what?

The "so what" is that Malaysia, Western Indonesia, and Singapore are effectively one economic unit with the natural resources and low-wage jobs in the first two and the higher wage jobs in Singapore.

Singapore is a sovereign state but it's not economically a country in the sense Canada is. The mini-states in Europe like Luxembourg have a high GDP per capita compared to their neighbours too.

Anonymous
Anonymous
9 years ago

@Best place on meth:

"It's like judging all of Canada by some polygamist sect in the middle of nowhere, B.C."

Is there one?

Anonymous
Anonymous
9 years ago

@jesse: Yes, the city should have made more pre-sales a condition of taking over the financing. Has any other recent major development been built with only 1/3 pre-sold?

Makaya
Makaya
9 years ago

@jesse: "things are equal only in PPP" Isn't what really matters for the average Joe, whether Canadian or Singaporean? At the end of the day, what's important is what you can afford with your salary/income. If you make $10K a month, but it costs you $8K to rent a place and everything else is expensive, it doesn't really matter is your currency is strong or not. "total working hours in Singapore, from what I know of them, are longer" That is very true (and somehow scary). Working hours in Canada are much better, but still not as good as in Germany or France 😉 As far as real estate is concerned, I don't think it get any more expensive than in Vancouver. With an average salary somewhere is the $70K and an average house of $1m, it's difficult to do… Read more »

jesse
9 years ago

@Makaya: "Living in Vancouver, how many average family here can own a decent place to live?"

To live or to own? Renting is an option for many. If you look at PPP perhaps Singapore has some equality compared to Canada's urban settings. But the big caveat is, of course, things are equal only in PPP. Also, FWIW, total working hours in Singapore, from what I know of them, are longer.

Makaya
Makaya
9 years ago

@jesse: Well, I don't totally agree with you. I don't know how much you know about Singapore and their system, but from my perception, an average doesn't necessarly have a lower standard of living than in Canada. An average Singaporean can't afford a house, as they are outrageously expensive, compared to Canada. BUT, in Singapore, the government has put in place a program called HDB flat that allows the average citizen to be able to own a decent home. Living in Vancouver, how many average family here can own a decent place to live? Another good thing that they have in Singapore is their retirement funding system, called CPF. It more or less works like the RRSP, the difference being that the companies you work for are obliged to contribute. In total, 33% of income is put in this fund… Read more »

jesse
9 years ago

@Makaya: "Ask the guy working on minimum wage in BC"

I don't disagree that there is income stratification in Canada. In total I think a hard-working median Canadian has a better standard of living than the median Singaporean. For whatever reason the wealth that Singapore is generating isn't being passed on to its citizens, despite their superior scholastic results.

NO - LYMPICS
NO - LYMPICS
9 years ago

OV marketers should throw in an illegal alien housekeeper.

““Social justice and diversity are also expected to become dominant themes in the program re-design. For example, students taking a mathematics course might also end up discussing class, gender or

race. ”

Next UBC test question:

Tiger Woods + 3 #5 Orange waitresses = _________

jesse
9 years ago

@chip: "Quick, somebody tell these kids they’re being set up for low skilled work!"

Yes the top 10% of earners do well in Singapore. Not so true for the other 90%. And how many graduates from Singapore's top schools end up studying post secondary in Singapore? Even more, how many of the top 10% actually stay in Singapore to work after they graduate? Any perusal of the Straits Times for the keywords "brain drain" gives some indication of the answer.

Anyways, I understand your points. Have a good evening.

Makaya
Makaya
9 years ago

@Best place on meth:

I'm not surprised that the international dollar used for comparison purpose is a bit challenging for your tiny little brain to understand. How couldn't it be? It is just used by the IMF and World Bank! Maybe all the economists there were trained at Disneyland…

Since understanding abstract concepts seem to be a bit too difficult for you, I will put myself at your level and strongly advise you to look at this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q23sodJ0SIg). It will teach you how to use the only word you're capable of using in many different ways…

realpaul
realpaul
9 years ago

Canada has trained Mexico's firemen…so much for the equipment ignorant, 'no speeky english' argument. We can import them to do exactly the same service for a fraction of the cost. I guarantee that the 'professionalism' of the average worker in Mexico is as high or higher and the work ethic higher in Mexico as it is in Canada. Ditto police…..anyone can be a psychopath tasering innocents…we don't need to unionize them…if our inports fuck up we deport them…instead of putting on paid suspension for murder. I guarantee that the police will murder far fewer people in Nepal than have died at the hands of police in BC this year. Teachers have a much higher standard of education in India and get much higher grades as graduates. We have extremely low quality educators in BC…..why are we paying them as if… Read more »

Best place on meth
Best place on meth
9 years ago

@Makaya: Well Chip/Makaya, Next time trying letting us know that you're using imaginary units of currency all along instead of posting: "Per capita GDP is what you’re looking for. It’s over $50,000 in Singapore and $38,000 in Canada." Maybe even mention that you're fictional currency is taking into account cost of living and other factors rather than straight up output. They're called International $, not just $. If you'd like to compare countries using other fake units of money please use the following guidelines. Canadian Tire money – CTM$ Disney dollars – HPOE$ (happiest place on earth) Salt Spring dollar – $$ This being an adult forum,it's unfortunate you're so offended by a little salty language, I would then suggest you go here instead http://betweentalk.com/ and please remember to never visit England or Scotland. They're likely to tell you to… Read more »

oneangryslav2
oneangryslav2
9 years ago

@chip:

Wow, that’s one heck of an analysis. The fact that more than half of the hard science PHDs graduating in the US this year are foreign-born is because of ESL issues and single mothers. Gotcha.

I comment on a graph measuring student achievement in elementary and high school and you use foreign-born PhDs in US universities as a rebuttal. Well, as one of those foreign-born, US-produced PhDs, I think it's clear that you're either arguing in bad faith or have really poor analytical skills (though the two are not, of course, mutually exclusive).

Makaya
Makaya
9 years ago

@Best place on meth:

"What the fuck does that have to do with trying to pass off Singapore dollars as U.S. dollars?"

Can't you make the difference between international dollars and US dollars? Is this concept too complicated for you to understand?

Try to read that and you'll feel better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_dollar

And please stop swearing, we're all Canadians and polite…

Best place on meth
Best place on meth
9 years ago

@Makaya:

Yes I've heard of it, Chip.

What the fuck does that have to do with trying to pass off Singapore dollars as U.S. dollars?

Makaya
Makaya
9 years ago

@Best place on meth:

Have you seen any S next to that 50K for Singapore?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by

Maybe you have never heard about PPP (purchasing power parity)?

Are you slowly getting the picture now?

Best place on meth
Best place on meth
9 years ago

@chip:

>>>“He can’t even get his Singapore GDP numbers right, he’s probably getting his 50K in Singapore dollars.”

Try the IMF.<<<

Chip, you see that little "S" next to the 50K?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Singapore

Are you slowly getting the picture now? No wonder you suddenly have to run.

Makaya
Makaya
9 years ago

@patriotz:

"No, but Malaysia and Indonesia do."

So what?

We're talking about country's GDP. As far as I know, Calgary is part of Canada, no? And Indonsia and Malaysia are independent of Singapore, no?

Is Canada's oil taken into account in US GDP? Get the point?

patriotz
9 years ago

@Makaya:

By the way, in Singapore, they have no oil, no forest, no uranium, no diamond, no potash, no resources at all.

No, but Malaysia and Indonesia do.

There's no oil, etc. in the City of Calgary either. What do you think its per capita GDP is? Get the point?

patriotz
9 years ago

@manna from heaven:

Ottawa ponders further tightening of mortgage rules

You hardly have to read between the lines to get the real story: Carney has told Flaherty that personal debt has to be controlled and either Jimbo shuts off the mortgage tap or Carney raises interest rates across the board, which would have serious repercussions right across the economy.

Makaya
Makaya
9 years ago

@patriotz: "You can’t compare a city-state like Singapore to whole countries like Canada or Germany." Totally agree with that. I was just responding to a previous stupid comparison… "there are a great many low-paid workers who live in Malaysia and commute to work in Singapore" True. But can you quantify the impact on the GDP per capita? Even 10-15% less would still make Singapore ahead of Canada. "And one more thing – Singapore’s very low birth rate means still fewer kids per working adult. And fewer stay-at-home mothers." True, same as in Canada. They compensate with immigration, the same way Canada does. By the way, in Singapore, they have no oil, no forest, no uranium, no diamond, no potash, no resources at all. They got themselves out of poverty to become one of the richest country in the world, with… Read more »

Best place on meth
Best place on meth
9 years ago

@chip:

You're changing the subject Chip.

I never said Singapore was a shithole, I said India and China were shitholes since you were glowing about how good their education was and how great they are at math. If it's so good then why are those countries still shitholes? Maybe it's because they've been trained to obsess over numbers and money at the expense of learning much else, like how to build a decent country.

I happen to like Singapore, I just wouldn't hold it up as some kind of model because it's not even a real country. It's more like a trading post.

chip
chip
9 years ago

@patriotz:

Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, Taiwan, China, India. Yeah, you can't compare any of these with Canada.

Each one obviously has some peculiarity that accounts for its incredible growth.

Anyway, it's been fun. But gotta run.