Creative Marketing on Private Sales?
We’ve seen developers hiding price reductions in the form of tax and strata discounts on new developments but what about the private seller? Check out this new listing:
“BEST VALUE FOR $… DARE TO COMPARE! ” NO HST… Concrete Building, 2 levels, 3 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, in addition to a family room. Living out of the box with plenty of private outdoor space on the 5th floor with exterior doors out to a garden and kid’s play area. Not to mention, swimming pool, media room, meeting room, 2 storage lockers, 1 parking, Pet Friendly, Rentals ok. The main entrance is well secured with card entry and concierge service. Shopping is only minutes away, with Starbucks T&T supermarket, Costco, Home Depot, McDonalds, and great transportation, the skytrain. BONUS: for a short LIMITED TIME OFFER, the seller will sweeten the deal with a $200 strata fee reduction for 5 whole years.
MLS History
First listed for $548,000 on June 9 2010 (v831995)
Price reduced to $527,500 on October 10 2010
De-listed December 22, 2010
Re-listed for $580,000 this week
So what do you think about this creative marketing? The price has increased $52,500 from where it didn’t sell last year but now you have a carrot of $200/month for 5 years (about $11K if you discount it @ 3%). Is there any benefit to the seller from a cash flow perspective? Surely the buyer would demand the $12K be held in escrow?
Personally, I like the graphic work indicating the townhouse location on the listing image:
February 13th, 2011 at 10:25 pm 1
This is big trouble; the postal code contains 3 number 6’s
The unit number also has a 6 in it.
Also:
“Surely the buyer would demand the $12K be held in escrow?”
They will likely reduce the price by 12k, or use this gimmick to reduce the monthly payment.
However, the place has potential; most noteworthy is it is near McDonald’s. And with a limited time bonus offer, all interested parties should bring in their offer, as there has never been a better time to buy.
Sadly the seller has chosen a less than stellar realtor. I’m not a realtor but I would have not missed the opportunity to market this unit as a:
“ONE YEAR ANNIVERSITY OF THE OLYMPIC SPECIAL FOR ONLY $888,888.88, WITH A TIME LIMITED OFFER OF A .8% REDUCTION ON TH MAINTENANCE FEE FOR 8 MONTHS.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 13th, 2011 at 10:32 pm 2
"BONUS: for a short LIMITED TIME OFFER, the seller will jack up the price by a whopping $52,500 over the last price that failed to sell in the hope some loser will scrape together a 5% deposit before a tsunami of rising interest rates and crippling unaffordability finally sweeps through Vancouver after laying waste to property prices around the world."
What an opportunity to be just steps from cheap cup noodles at TNT and the blissful crunch of syringes underfoot.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 13th, 2011 at 11:57 pm 3
Another family gathering, another discussion that led to RE:
A family member was given an opportunity to work on the island but she knows she'll miss the family and the GVR so she suggests that she will do the stint for a couple years then return home.
A few words into mentioning that she plans to sell her home, she was interrupted with "Don't do it… you can never buy one back. Prices will keep going up and you'll be priced out…" Another agreed. Then a 3rd agreed. (Of course they go on mentioning the Asian invasion and low interest rates, and blah blah blah) I wanted to say something but decided to keep my mouth shut. Why bother. These people believe the world is flat and I could bring whatever data I wanted to and there's no way of convincing them otherwise.
I will chat with the family member in private at a later time.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 12:08 am 4
@ specialfx3000:
amazing how thick people are, isn't it.
I was having the same relationship with my soon to be mother in law (and fiancée to some extent) , tentatively kicking in my 2 cents when she started to put the pressure on us to buy.
Lucky for me, she brought the issue up with her financial advisor and he suggested that it was probably a good idea to wait (not because of affordability, but because he felt there was potential for a bit of a price correction).
So the pressure if off for now.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 12:37 am 5
Front page headline story on VancouverSun.com – Metro house average prices just 11% from last Jan! That's a bigger jump than I thought:
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Average+pric…
Scroll a bit down and we find 34% Metro Seattle homes worth less than their outstanding mortgages balances:
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Metro+Seattl…
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 1:02 am 6
Does the building have a helipad?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 1:03 am 7
We all know its the mix of the sale prices and of course some actual appreciation that cause the "11.5%" increase but my god man.. even the headline is wrong.
"Average price of B.C. home jumps 11 per cent in January compared to a year ago"
No its compared to last month. Not a year ago.
Sad thing is my family, friends will see this and just take the headline verbatim.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 1:06 am 8
@space889: From the article:
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 1:11 am 9
e all know its the mix of the sale prices and of course some actual appreciation that cause the “11.5%” increase but my god man.. even the headline is wrong.
“Average price of B.C. home jumps 11 per cent in January compared to a year ago”
No its compared to last month. Not a year ago.
Sad thing is my family, friends will see this and just take the headline verbatim.
****
Hey dumbass bear!
Can't you read – it is YOY not MOM!
Geez, no wonder you guys have missed the boat
The average price of a home in British Columbia rose 11.5 per cent, to $548,183, in January compared to the SAME MONTH LAST YEAR according to the B.C. Real Estate Association
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 1:18 am 10
Anyone catch this on Garth's site?
"Just as the title says, we need people to hold spots and line up for a new condo project located in Burnaby (Kingsway/Willingdon Ave). Line up may start as early as weds/thurs night. Grand opening is Saturday February 19, 2011.
Warm beverages and washrooms will be provided by the developer.
Shifts are determined on how long you would like to stay. (preferably 8hours+)
Get paid cash quickly for sitting in a line up!
E-mail me your phone number + e-mail for more details. job-syk6p-2212992997@craigslist.org"
Listing has since been removed. Guess it was just a prank by someone, or not?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 1:26 am 11
#9 Try Reading Says: "The average price of a home in British Columbia rose 11.5 per cent, to $548,183, in January compared to the SAME MONTH LAST YEAR according to the B.C. Real Estate Association"
Even though the REBoGV compiles a proper HPI index:
http://www.rebgv.org/mlslink-hpi%C2%AE-explained
and the page on their site explaining it goes to some length also explaining why 'average' is shit for stats, Cammy Moore the perfesshunal economatrisist still grabs a tragically flawed metric distorted by sales mix for public releases. Want to guess why?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 1:58 am 12
We need a new topic thread in the forum called "Stupid Realtor Tricks".
It would fill up quickly.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 2:03 am 13
The question I want to know is; did Sydney Crosby spend any time in the suite? Are there cum stains to prove it? This condo isn't very far from another used condo development: the Olympic Village. So the seller needs to understand that they are up against.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 2:03 am 14
Re: Average Price article
What is with this "seasonally adjusted" crap? They seaonally adjust data within a one month span to make the statistic look better.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 2:11 am 15
@crabman: Well I'm sure a lot of locals would respond that BC is not California, BC is so much better than California which is currently almost bankrupt, pathetic school system, water shortage, way too hot and huge smog and traffice issues. Also, what is there in California beside movies and some IT business anyways? BC has everything Califoria has and more. Just look at our world class leading games and movie FX industry!
Yes, that's sacarsm and yes I truely believe a good number of local residents believe that.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 2:30 am 16
I have a friend in the building, "Europa" and their strata fees are insanely high due to owner/renter(s) that have flooded the place several times. Since they did not have insurance the strata had to pick up the repairs. Even with a 200 dollar deduction your monthly fee in that townhouse is going to be huge.
My friends 500sq foot place has to pay over $300 a month.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 2:34 am 17
@International slum village.:
"Since they did not have insurance the strata had to pick up the repairs."
Why didn't they claim on the building's insurance and charge the deductible to those responsible for the damage?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 2:42 am 18
@fixie guy:
"Want to guess why?"
The same reason that bears use them when it suits their argument?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 2:55 am 19
@fixie guy:
Anyone know what the BC benchmark YoY number is? By May I'm guessing it will likely be approx -5%.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 2:55 am 20
@Anonymouse:
How does it feel to be a cheerleader for and defender of extremely high real estate prices?
Does it hurt your soul or are you fine with it?
And what is your interest in defending high prices? Are you in the real estate industry or just a home owner?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 2:56 am 21
@Anonymouse:
It's never held as much sway as median and benchmark, because we understand statistics. Even more sought after are bracketed numbers for each market segment, so we can see which price ranges are moving (ex entry level vs move up).
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 2:56 am 22
"The average price of a home in British Columbia rose 11.5 per cent, to $548,183, in January compared to the same month last year, according to the B.C. Real Estate Association"
Is it not more accurate to say that "the average of the selling prices homes in British Columbia rose 11.5%"?
In a tight market, this could be substantially different than a benchmark price. In a rising market, people buy anything. In a tight market, people are fussy.
One could reasonably argue that last year it was crack shacks that sold, this year it was mansions that sold (for 11.5% more than the price of the crack shacks that sold last year).
Figures don't lie but liars can figure. Well, you know what I mean.
We don't have benchmark prices, but how about average/sq.ft.? That should be calculable. Still flawed, but an improvement.
btw, did the article refer to "homes" or "SFHs". The condo/SFH mix could be very different.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 2:57 am 23
Ooops, meant to write "Is it not more accurate to say that “the average of the selling prices of homes in British Columbia rose 11.5%”?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 2:59 am 24
Sorry for the typing sloppiness and brain malfunctions. The point I'm trying to get at is that the "average price of a home" is really an average of sold homes and that the mix can change. I should have said simply that. Done.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 3:00 am 25
#18 Anonymouse Says: "The same reason that bears use them when it suits their argument?"
Discounting that you're full of shit and I never use average, can you differentiate between a 'profession economist' who knows better making public statements on behalf of a business special interest for the press and anonymous posters on forums?
Did K-12 stop at 4 for you clowns?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 3:07 am 26
Mish has a good article: House = Perpetual Liability
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 3:15 am 27
Here's what I don't get. Inventory is building at a record pace. Still nowhere near 'glut' levels on the market as of now, but we are high for mid-February. On the other hand, we hear all these stories about busy open houses and bidding wars. What gives?
All this may be helicopter-esque realtor hype. But I have heard these stories first-hand from buyers and sellers I know. I have also read them from credible bears here on this site.
And it's not just a VanWest thing. According to my numbers from the public mls listings, VW detached are going vertical. Added another 34 since Friday alone. We're at 461, which is late spring levels of inventory and it is only February. How do we square this with the anecdotals (and the big price increase we saw in VW in January).
Actually, there are some areas that are showing slow inventory build. Van East detached, for example, have only added around 24% over the last month–compared to 45% in VW. Burnaby is pretty slow to build inventory too.
Any ideas out there? Where is all this inventory build? Why don't the anecdotes line up? And finally, what the hay is going on in VW detached–vertical inventory growth with rumors of bidding wars. huh?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 3:15 am 28
Wow, news flash! Realtors are trying to sell stuff and cherry pick data for that purpose. The endless whining about it is tiring. It is what it is and it ain't gonna change, bears.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 3:20 am 29
@bubbly: That's not really fair though. Property taxes are like strata fees. The city provides services like sewage, water, streets, sidewalks, backalleys, garbage collection, power and other utilities in some cases, policing, fire department, schools, etc, none of which do you have the option to pay separately for, or to opt out of, whether you agree with the city providing those services or even use them. Don't want to pay property taxes, then move to middle of nowhere where services are minimal.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 3:25 am 30
BTW, if you’re in romantic Burnaby and free Wednesday night, come and see how markets really work:
PEOPLE NEEDED TO LINE UP FOR NEW CONDO PROJECT
Date: 2011-02-13, 4:06PM PST
Just as the title says, we need people to hold spots and line up for a new condo project located in Burnaby (Kingsway/Willingdon Ave). Line up may start as early as weds/thurs night. Grand opening is Saturday February 19, 2011.
Warm beverages and washrooms will be provided by the developer.
Shifts are determined on how long you would like to stay. (preferably 8hours+)
Get paid cash quickly for sitting in a line up!
E-mail me your phone number + e-mail for more details. job-syk6p-2212992997@craigslist.org
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 3:26 am 31
@VHB: I think the market is very segmented right now with a tug of war between sellers/buyers and corresponding different trajectories and expectations. I don't think it's really surprising considering overall we've been more or less flat for almost a year, and there's no discernable trend in place. All these 'bidding wars' seemed to be confined to SFH in Van proper or Richmond which have sharp pricing. But just like last year, there's an awful lot of product coming on the market that's poor quality and/or priced too high which sits for a long time which skews the inventory side, even while sales stay relatively strong. Until there's a decisive negative move in affordability (ie rates or employment) I think we'll see more of the same kind of 'volatility'. I know bears think that sentiment could turn negative any day now, I don't think that's likely, particularly with stories like that running in the MSM and considering how strong the RE religion is.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 3:35 am 32
@VHB:
The March 18th rule changes are sending buyers scrambling at a time when inventory is at its seasonal low.
They're desperate to grab whatever they can and can't wait for a better selection in June.
F. did a huge favour to detached sellers willing to sell in February.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 3:38 am 33
@Devore:It does not matter what you think the government is giving you in return. You are forced to pay for something that you supposedly already own. Stop paying and you will find out who is the real owner.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 3:39 am 34
http://www.kptv.com/news/26861002/detail.html
Oh snap, is that why my floor is shaking?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 3:42 am 35
#28 Troll Says: "Wow, news flash! Realtors are trying to sell stuff and cherry pick data for that purpose. The endless whining about it is tiring. It is what it is and it ain’t gonna change, bears."
Choices, choices. Is constant vigilance over the lies and dissembling of arguably the industry most destructive of BC's future worth the risk of boring a self-admitted internet troll? That's a tough one.
Just kidding, but thanks again for demonstrating the infantile level of reasoning and emotional manipulation you and your type bring to the game. This is probably the only region in the country where that tripe stands a chance. Trust me on that.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 3:46 am 36
@bubbly:
But it does, because that's what you're paying for with your property taxes. For the city to provide shared services.
You're not forced to pay anything. As always, don't like something, vote with your wallet, move where no one is charging you for those things. I don't agree with governments at all levels with providing all the things and services they do, but that's irrelevant; we live in the world we live in. Your only option to opt out is to move, and/or pressure politicians and sway public opinion to user pay services, consumption taxes, and privatized/market-based providers.
Again, property taxes is not you paying for your house. It is you paying for the services the city provides you and your property (the royal you, if not you specifically).
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 3:48 am 37
@VHB: "Any ideas out there? Where is all this inventory build? Why don’t the anecdotes line up?"
I see this as a heightened case of high quality locations selling fast. I'll give you an anecdote to the contrary:
An investor friend of mine is actively involved in spec building on the west side of Vancouver. According to her, there was significant activity amongst investors who are buying teardown lots and building to suit (this was late last year). There is a large backlog at the City for permit applications that is just now being cleared. She does not see the market as strong: the margins are very thin right now and the quality of builders and contractors is oscillating. In her words the market is "competitive", meaning land prices are high and profits for spec builders are getting razor thin, given the effect of carrying high land prices for the construction period. She thinks 1/2 the SFH volume right now is investor/flippers.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 3:53 am 38
@Anonymous:
"PEOPLE NEEDED TO LINE UP FOR NEW CONDO PROJECT"
Doesn't seem to be on Craigslist anymore….
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 3:59 am 39
From World Housing Bubble: BC Online Mortgage Applications Down Significantly for January 2011
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 4:06 am 40
cue music: Steppenwolf Magic Carpet Ride
the vehicle: black helicopter smeared with red, white and blue logos
the terms: short term lease with pilot
the payload: multiple unit warheads filled with REIC Koolaid suppositories
the hook: heat seeking unit tuned to "warm body with pulse"
expected outcome: Glowing Van Sun headlines
the casualties: the TRUTH
potential victims should firmly grasp their ankles while standing
with apologies to Francis Ford Coppola.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 4:07 am 41
@Devore:
Like the Olympic Village? I am not asking for these services.
Look, if I come to you and ask you to pay me $10k or give up your house, then it's extortion. Even if I use the 10k to fix some sidewalk on the other end of the city or bail out an Olympic specuvestor.
If what the government is doing is not extortion but just a payment for services, then you just made my point – you are not really the owner of the house. The government is and it's renting the house to you so that it can collect income for "services".
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 4:11 am 42
CBC: Immigrant visas to drop 5%: records
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 4:18 am 43
Interesting posting. I'm not sure I would call this “creative” marketing. It’s pretty bog standard stuff. Shipping and handling charges as seen on TV products are just another way to “find” the best sale price for a product. $19.99 plus $4.99 S&H will find more customers than $24.99.
Having said that, re-sale real estate in this town doesn’t need this kind of BS. Buyers are hyper aware of market price—hence the bidding wars when prices are lowered enough. The temptation is too great. Buyers can’t help but want to get in if only 5K under value and then lose hold of themselves in the process.
I think what’s unknown here is the psychology of the seller. He/she obviously knows he can’t get 527K for the unit. At the same time, he’s reading all these recent articles about insane price gains on Van SFHs. Even though these gains do not apply to his unit, he probably has a difficult time accepting that. God knows what tactics his agent has to use to get him to be realistic. This may have been the only way the agent could get the listing.
I applaud his agent and all agents for getting sellers to be realistic. I personally like this offer because it smacks of desperation, as does the listing copy. The more unrealistic sellers there are and the more desperate the agent’s sales tactics, the more John Q. Public will realize the good times are over. Long live David P. Jang and may the next apartment he sells come with a free car or a trip to Mexico!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 4:21 am 44
@bubbly:
"It does not matter what you think the government is giving you in return. You are forced to pay for something that you supposedly already own. Stop paying and you will find out who is the real owner."
But the same is true of your car or any other asset that you own. If you don't pay any of your taxes, regardless of what they are based on, the government will seize your assets. There is nothing particularly special about housing.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 4:22 am 45
to whoever posted this article:
obviously, you missed your chance to buy.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 4:32 am 46
CBC: Insolvencies on the rise — November higher than October, but lower on an annual basis
There were the "changes"? See here. Just a note not to look at bankruptcies before Sept 2009 as apples-to-apples when comparing the fiscal health of consumers and companies from previous years.
Unfortunately these data are a lagging indicator. Something to watch as access to lines of credit and rising rates (maybe) start eroding balance sheets.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 4:47 am 47
@VANCOUVER_RE_SUCKS:
didn't miss the chance to buy
the t/h unit is still for sale
maybe somebody could offer $388,888.88
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 4:54 am 48
@bubbly: "Like the Olympic Village? I am not asking for these services."
But the taxpayers of the city did have their say with the plebiscite. Unfortunately for their pocketbooks, they voted in favour of it.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 4:55 am 49
A 5th floor townhouse?!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 5:13 am 50
@42 jesse: Wasn't it just recently Harper was talking about raising quotas to 250K in 2011? How did we hit 280K in 2010? Maybe this FoIA release will rid Harper of reason to torpedo the 2011 Census.
Also an interesting perspective on the age question given that a large part of the rationalization for these levels is the aging Boomer population.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 5:15 am 51
They are trying new tactics in Australia as well:
http://smh.domain.com.au/real-estate-news/a-new-l…
Note the Gold Coast is the Aussie equivalent of the Okanagan, it's the east coast playground and is mostly holiday homes/condos.
When the Japanese bubble burst in the 1990s the Gold Coast got hit hard, foreign money had been pouring into that area and prices took a while to recover. It's also one of the softest areas at the moment, prices would have been down there in 2010.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 5:33 am 52
@jesse: #42
I wonder if Harper cut back the investor immigrant class numbers as well.
Probably not.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 5:54 am 53
@Best place on meth: "I wonder if Harper cut back the investor immigrant class numbers as well."
Not obvious. The statement is they want to focus on skilled workers, presumably because they anticipate the unemployment rate to start dropping as businesses start hiring again. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a push to ensure immigrants who arrive in Canada will have a higher chance of remaining in the country. I doubt such a policy would ever be published but it might be available under FOI.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 5:55 am 54
Seattle is catching up to real estate collapse that has ravaged the rest of the USA.
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/0…
Vancouver cheerleaders need not fret though because it really is different here.
Really.
Different.
Right here.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 5:58 am 55
@bubbly:
You don't have to. Just look at the deed – it says "tenant in fee simple". Stop paying your rent and you get kicked out, just like any other tenant.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 6:21 am 56
5 year bond yields are about to hit 2.8 (certainly by week's end at this rate), aka a 40% increase since November.
Forget inventory parties, the real celebration is in enjoying how much pain the big banks are suffering with their artificially low mortgage rate spreads. Once they finally stop subsidizing mortgages (as they will have to, inevitably), expect another bump in the posted 5-year rate. Heck, we're overdue for another quarter point at least.
They way things are going on the rate front, by August owning a house in Richmond will be about as affordable as a personal helicopter. I'm sure nobody will have trouble making their payments, of course- everyone in this town owns a BMW after all!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 6:22 am 57
@Troll
Wow, news flash! Bears are trying to debunk Realtors' crap and have a rational look at data. The endless whining about it is tiring. It is what it is and it ain’t gonna change, bulls.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 6:35 am 58
The endless whining about it is tiring
you could always leave and never come back
that would solve your RE induced angst……..
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 6:49 am 59
@VHB:
We know the real estate business is in the back pocket of the media. So 95pct of the articles that come out will be about rising prices, rich Chinese guys.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 7:25 am 60
CMHC fires back at critics
From the G&M:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business…
…CMHC argues that the Canadian model is cost-effective, and has provided the Canadian taxpayer with $12-billion over the last decade in profits and income taxes.
“Most importantly, the Canadian model withstood the test of the economic downturn, when housing markets in the U.S., United Kingdom, and Ireland failed,” Mr. Stewart wrote.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 7:29 am 61
@domus:
Executive summary: the Ponzi scheme hasn't failed yet.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 7:43 am 62
@patriotz:
Bingo! I imagine the verdict will be different after prices have fallen 20-25%.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 7:46 am 63
@data junkie: "They way things are going on the rate front, by August owning a house in Richmond will be about as affordable as a personal helicopter."
This is the quote of the year. LOL!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 8:00 am 64
#60 domus Says: CMHC fires back at critics
How claiming 1.2 billion a year (net? gross?) from hundreds of billions in loan guarantees is 'firing back' remains unclear.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 8:35 am 65
@domus: CMHC firing back? The lady doth protest too much, methinks!
The calculations are simple. Run some stress tests on CMHC's balance sheet with various price change scenarios and ensure they open their books for critical review.
On first blush they are undercapitalized. On second blush, they have significant downside risk if they are forced to insure loans that are decreasing in value, when a private insurer would be flat out refusing business.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 8:44 am 66
@patriotz:
"Executive summary: the Ponzi scheme hasn’t failed yet"
Let's hope it doesn't fail until every fool has purchased, so we won't have a repeat of 2010.
When this market finally falls flat on it's back we want a count of 10, we lift the arm, and make sure it's lights out for a good decade.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 8:46 am 67
CHMC fires back at critics…..
I like the part where it says CHMC is not a problem because what happened in US, UK, Ireland, etc hasn't happened in Canada yet because we are different and more economically sound. I wonder what happens when Canadian housing really starts slide and CHMC requires a bailout?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business…
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 9:15 am 68
New Listings 322
Price Changes 102
Sold Listings 198
12076
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 9:33 am 69
I love how some realtors, including the one in this post, think that they can sell a home using direct marketing/TV infomercial shouty-style American methods? As if just the power of their words will make someone buy it.
Ie, capital letters, exclamation marks, ellipses, and a 'catchy' slogan (DARE TO COMPARE! – what does that even mean?)
As well as copy that doesn't make sense and often isn't even proper English, I'm also amazed at the lack of good quality photos in many MLS listings.
As a buyer, all I need is a nice bulleted list detailing the rooms, room sizes and the main features; a note of the location; and some good quality pictures, including a floor plan. And maybe get the owner to tidy up before taking the pics? Just a thought.
Seriously – why is that so hard for so many of these relators? I've never sold a house here, but if my realtor promoted my home in such a sloppy way I'd ask for a refund.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 9:39 am 70
Holy crap – I just noticed the maintenance fees on that place are $673.55. Good grief. That's more than half my current rent.
Who would even consider for a second paying out more than half a million dollars and still have to pay fees that high.
I honestly think in 2-3 years time you'll be able to buy that place for $400,000 tops.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 10:01 am 71
@john: "I just noticed the maintenance fees on that place are $673.55"
Or $8000 a year. Yikes, that really puts the $200/month discount in perspective!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 10:14 am 72
fixie guy Says:
February 14th, 2011 at 3:32 pm
#52 Best place on meth Says: “I wonder if Harper cut back the investor immigrant class numbers as well.”
====================================
What PM "Harping -whore" is probably realizing is that the citizenry is finally realizing the immigrant class investment has reached an equilibria point that the cost outweighs the benefit.
OR, it is an insult to the Candain citizen that they are not capapble of contributing to the countries economy….and we must import foreigners and foreign capital.
Any idiot can launder money in static asset classes, ie RE….the dynamic entrepeneurial class seems none exisitent
Read the tea leaves prior to the revolution….
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 10:42 am 73
Another net 100+ new listings.
Keep em coming!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 10:43 am 74
@john:
"And maybe get the owner to tidy up before taking the pics?"
My personal favourite is where they've left all the blinds/curtains closed….
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 11:06 am 75
@john:
I honestly think in 2-3 years time you’ll be able to buy that place for $400,000 tops.
Therefore one should wait another 2 years maybe to get it for 180k. Personaly I wouldn't buy it at all but if I have to I wouldn't pay it more than… (120 x 1250) = 150K max.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 11:44 am 76
@Bubba:
"What PM “Harping -whore” is probably realizing is that the citizenry is finally realizing the immigrant class investment has reached an equilibria point that the cost outweighs the benefit."
I'm not sure the investor class is a real problem. It's small and they do bring some form of cash or expertise. The problem, as the govt seems to realize, is the huge share of immigration (about half) taken up by extended family members. When you can sponsor a parent or grandparent while making little more than 20k a year, and that often older relative then gets full access to 'free' healthcare, that's an enormous net cost to the country.
Now, on an individual level I totally sympathize with the individuals bringing their parents and grandparents in — who wouldn't want to — but when I used to fly SQ's flight in from Singapore there would always be at least half a dozen wheelchairs at the gate for the elderly relatives coming from India. So with some studies showing that health costs for people over 60 amount to about $200,000, that one flight entails a potential cost to the taxpayer of well over $1 million even though it is possible that the total income (not tax paid) of the sponsors barely scrapes $100,000.
This is a rather bloodless way of looking at things but math is important if a govt is facing massive future liabilities like we are.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 11:44 am 77
I was reading the CBC forums about the immigration changes. Even the lefty CBC types are stressed about the impact of immigration. The Conservatives were smart to reduce the family Visas and I fully expect more changes along this line.
Check this poll on the CBC site showing 75% support for the government (among CBC viewers!!!) and the comments below:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/pointofview/2011/02/immigr…
Concerns over unemployment and stress on our healthcare system are making a lot of people doubt the wisdom of so much immigration. Boomers are worried about the government supporting them as they get older.
So the REIC better have a Plan B.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 12:04 pm 78
# 77 chip
We have enough of a problem within the Canadian citizenry than importing external money drains.
Charity begins at home….
I laugh like hell with our token politicians deftly imply a concern re: immigration restriction, knowing full well enough is enough.
Shut the F'n borders and allow us to deal with our problems.
Other countries seem to be doing it.
Are our own politicians so diaper- dependent they can't see the farce for the trees?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 12:05 pm 79
@VHB:
Here’s what I don’t get. Inventory is building at a record pace. Still nowhere near ‘glut’ levels on the market as of now, but we are high for mid-February. On the other hand, we hear all these stories about busy open houses and bidding wars. What gives?
Here's what gives in my opinion: 99.9% of lower mainlanders do not read real estate bear blogs. I think that those of us that are interested in this stuff become so involved in the day-to-day analysis that we forget that most do not. They get their news from the Sun, Province, CTV News, Global, Ozzie Jurock on 980, and of course, family members arranged around the dinner table.
The average is up 11%. Vancouver appears to have bucked the world-wide downwards trend. The TV "news" shows asian realtors flying around in helicopters effectively staking out this new frontier for the asian hordes. Why wouldn't average people think that we are different?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 12:14 pm 80
VHB,
Money is still very cheap. As long as it's cheap, Vancouverites will buy. They can't help themselves. And from what I hear, money is still circulating outside the official banking system in China. That can't help our cause either.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 12:34 pm 81
Ulsterman…..
This is an anal… eerrr,,,, I mean annual event.
After Xmas, the RE pimps have to drum up the herd for the springtime RE buying orgy.
If their own mothers were 1/2 assed decent looking, you'd be getting free lay with the RE deal.
Everything is pimped,,people, stats, ethics…..
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 12:45 pm 82
#76,
good luck!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 12:49 pm 83
I found this little gem today while reading the Pique up in Whistler. It's an article from the Feb. 9th issue called Whistler 2010: a Blueprint for Business Success. It goes on to talk about real estate of course and I'll quote a section from it. The part near the bottom of the quote about the media wanting to get stories about rising real estate prices is interesting:
"For Pat Kelly, owner of the Whistler Real Estate Company, the idea that property values would rise due to the arrival of a two-week event was just a myth. He claims to have seen no noticeable change in property sales leading up to the Games.
"There was a few reported sales of people who were looking for real estate prior to the Olympics because they thought it would be nice to have a place here," he says. "A couple of people did buy, but there was no measurable increase in activity due to the Olympics themselves."
But the myth persisted, despite Kelly constantly contradicting it in the local media and elsewhere. Reporters from outside media came to Whistler seeking the story that property owners were profiting off an Olympic-sized boost.
At one point Kelly stood outside a Whistler home with a TV reporter who turned off the camera when his comments didn't gel with the story.
"I had arguments with people about it," he says. "I would get reporters calling up and saying, how much has value gone up? They would argue with me about it and then they would go with the story anyways."
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 12:52 pm 84
@paulb.:
Paul, is it possible to report canceled or expired listings or is this not explicitly reported on the MLS system? I lost my access two years ago after my buddy gave up on being a realtor and stopped paying for access.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 12:58 pm 85
# 84
Whistler is for SCHMUCKS
soon on the silver screen
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 1:16 pm 86
@ulsterman:
I hear ya loud and clear, my family quotes the usual suspects all the time but have no data to back up their statements; they accept anything said by the MSM as gospel! I've given up arguing anymore and just "agree to disagree". I religiously believe that the market here will return to fundamentals however I have given up predicting when this will occur and am no longer surprised when it doesn't and the price plot heads for the upper right corner. I will never "give in and buy" as long as fundamentals don't make sense.
Interestingly, on the drive home today, I thought about what I would do if prices dropped 50% overnight…in the past, I would have jumped in the market however the repercussions of this would be that I wouldn't have $500K to invest. I'm young enough that I can take risks with my savings and I've gotten used to %15+ annual returns; if a million dollar place were worth $500K tomorrow, I would rather continue to rent as my returns would be greater than any appreciation in real estate less interest. In fact, I'm seriously considering whether I should ever consider buying?
If I can rent a great house for $40K/year and am making $100K/year through investing, why not pay my landlord's mortgage interest and keep compounding my own personal returns?
6 Bdr West Van with view
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 1:27 pm 87
@KWL:
Interesting….my future sister in law owns a condo in Whistler and has adamantly insisted for the past few years "I'm not selling until after the Olympics!" I think she may be in for a nasty surprise in the next few years…The condo is currently assessed at $300k, similar units are on MLS for $250k, they bought for $225k in 2001 or 2002 for $225k and every single year they lose more than $10k on the property (rental income less interest less maintenance fees and various upkeep items)-the property management company makes demands like "we won't keep your condo in the rental pool unless you put new carpets in, get a new TV, etc etc." And the split between the management company is 60/40-they keep 40, you keep 60. It's a losing venture all around. But since her condo's increased on paper, she somehow thinks she's got it made and she's some kind of genius.
Delusion. It's all around us in this city.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 1:28 pm 88
"But the myth persisted, despite Kelly constantly contradicting it in the local media and elsewhere. Reporters from outside media came to Whistler seeking the story that property owners were profiting off an Olympic-sized boost."
Yeah it's like whispering against the wind. Anytime you turn on the local radio station there it makes Bill slut sound like a blog bear in comparison.
Every 5 minutes, the listeners are reminded that Whistler is built out- land locked, international investors, and of course the Rich Blue Eyed oil barons from Alberta.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 1:43 pm 89
Before too many of us get on our high horses about immigration maybe we should ask some of the First Nations, who legally still own most of the land in BC!!
You see unlike many First nations people they weren't defeated. the first representatives of the British Government seeing how outnumbered they were, signed treaties allowing them to keep their land, to be exempt from taxes and to allow a few trading outposts unmolested.
Well those trading outposts have grown into major cities.
Just saying.
It's like the when the turd-brains in Australia used to say in the 1960's 'Keep Australia White' forgetting about the original aboriginals, and also conveniently forgetting that many of their own ancestors were convicts sent to Australia rather than being hanged (some preferred hanging) and many of the rest were stow-aways or various other starving and landless Europeans who couldn't make a living at home.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 1:54 pm 90
Whistler news from 2001:
A federal survey says the average price of a single-family home in Whistler could more than triple to $3 million by 2010.
http://www.ski-blackcomb.com/news.htm
Whistler average price in 2011:
http://search.suttonwestcoast.com/BC/Whistler/rea…
Oops, missed it by THAT much!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 2:03 pm 91
@YLTNboomerang:
It's not very simple to track. A listing can be cancelled, terminated or even put on hold. It would be very time intensive, if it's even possible to track on a daily basis.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 2:18 pm 92
February 2011 month-end projections
Days elapsed so far 10
Days remaining 10
5 Day Moving Average: Sales 160
5 Day Moving Average: Listings 288
SALES
Sales so far 1456
Projection for rest of month (using 5day MA) 1596
Projected month end total 3052 +/- 465
NEW LISTINGS
Listings so far 2851
Projection for rest of month (using 5day MA) 2876
Projected month end total 5727 +/- 375
Sell-list so far 51.1%
Projected month-end sell-list 53.3%
MONTHS OF INVENTORY
Inventory as of February 11, 2011 12076
MoI at this sales pace 3.96
Sales are coming on strong–5 day average of 160. But listings are stronger still. This is pretty much what you might have expected in the pre-March 18th runup. Just like we saw last year with the April change. Super action on both the sales and listings front.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 2:18 pm 93
@VHB: correction:
Inventory as of February **14**, 2011 12076
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 2:20 pm 94
@frank: Thanks for the history lesson, frank, but what does that have to do with anything today? And quit playing the race card.
I know Asians (eg. "bananas") who are just as irritated with the current wave of immigration as anyone. Its about a culture not race. People of every ethnicity are watching the city they knew disappear before their eyes. They often can no longer communicate in their language because these latest immigrants refuse to assimilate (this is unprecedented in modern Canada).
Its the great failure of multiculturalism (an idea I no longer agree with, and admit to having supported once).
Bringing up past wrongs to Natives in this context is a red herring, and really disrespectful of everyone (Natives included). You are just trying to stifle legitimate concerns. But I know you are a realwhore, and expect no better.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 2:44 pm 95
@VHB:
What you're talking about requires people to think in nuanced ways using data and critical thinking and putting it all into a meaningful context. My experience has been that they don't do that – hence our current situation in this bubble.(IMVHO)
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 2:53 pm 96
@KWL:
I found this little gem today while reading the Pique up in Whistler. It’s an article from the Feb. 9th issue called Whistler 2010: a Blueprint for Business Success. It goes on to talk about real estate of course ……..
Gee, what makes that one realtor so honest? He must really have his ear to the ground and be a down to earth guy! More bull shit! You’ve been snookered!
First it was the Japanese; then it was the Americans; then the British, then the Europeans, then Mexicans (ya, Mexicans ?). They haven’t tried the rich Asians ruse yet because they know that it’s obvious to everyone that there aren’t any there. Maybe they could try rich Asians that only heli-ski, so all those choppers up there are really full of rich Asians?
The truth is that whistler prices have been dropping for more than a decade and this nonsense, that they’re really just flat, is nothing more than a desperate snow job. Get you planks on man, fresh pow!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 2:55 pm 97
@paulb:
That's what I thought, I remember trying to track it myself but it required lots of downloading csv's to spreadsheets and manipulating. I'd love to get access to the raw MLS dbase I could datamine the $hit out of it!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 3:01 pm 98
@Patiently Waiting:
"Its the great failure of multiculturalism (an idea I no longer agree with, and admit to having supported once)."
So I would have to guess that means you are in favor of a mono-culture. In that case, I can't see what the problem is, as you claim that is what is being produced by the Chinese. The native thing is not a red herrring at all. The thing is that cultures come and go. You may think that, for some reason, yours is the best of all possible cultures, and that it should never be replaced, but that's not a likely scenario so, rather than fighting the tide, you might consider learning to swim.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 3:10 pm 99
San Diego is affordable again: Shambling Towards Affordability: Year-End 2010 Edition.
Rich Toscano gets it.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 3:14 pm 100
@N: Up until recently it was never about "replacing" Canadian culture. It was evolving over time, not being "replaced". This is the source of tension, and it is very real in Vancouver today.
Using what happened to the Natives to justify your arguement is totally disgusting. It is the height of arrogance, and gives the impression of a nasty agenda. HMMMM?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 3:32 pm 101
#52 Best place on meth Says: “I wonder if Harper cut back the investor immigrant class numbers as well.”
Does the program have a quota? It was was put on hold for most of last year, processing times currently range from 26 (Korea) to 53 (Egypt) months.
I don’t understand the goal of this program. There seems no requirement on the part on the investor to do anything but lend the government $800K interest free for 5 years in a low inflation environment. You also need to prove sufficient funds to support yourself, which Immigration sets at $29.4K for a family of seven.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/funds.asp
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 14th, 2011 at 7:47 pm 102
@specialfx3000:
Another crative fairly tale by bear propaganda. Poor bear when u gonna admit defeat?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 15th, 2011 at 6:16 am 103
@N #99
Shame you consider multiculturalism to have failed in Canada.
As someone who has seen a half-hearted effort at multiculturalism genuinely fail (in the UK), I'd say Canada has done a very good job of absorbing hundreds of thousands of new immigrants from all over the world with none of the race riots, rise in right-wing groups and simmering resentment seen in places like the US, UK, Australia, Sweden, Spain, France and elsewhere.
The children of new immigrants here are generally completely assimilated and accepted as Canadians within one generation. It's something Canada should be proud of IMO, and no amount of right-wing comments on Internet forums will convince me otherwise.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 15th, 2011 at 6:18 am 104
@Patiently Waiting #101
"This is the source of tension, and it is very real in Vancouver today."
I live in Vancouver. Where is this tension you speak of?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 15th, 2011 at 6:55 am 105
@john: Go back to sleep now, you tired troll
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 16th, 2011 at 6:31 am 106
@Patiently Waiting
I'm still patiently waiting. Where is the tension in Vancouver?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 16th, 2011 at 11:48 pm 107
We live in the building, in a similar townhouse on the east side of the roof.
Fees include hear/air conditioning and hot water, and a full-time site manager/concierge and on-site weekend security. Very few buildings you are comparing us to have these services.
Like most buildings, we’ve had issues arising from some substandard developer work, and some stupid owners. But we are fixing everything, investing in improvements, and even pre-emptively improved the envelope. this costs money. Most buildings do none of that, and the owners pay through the nose when it hits the fan. and it will.
pay now, or pay later. but you will pay.
so chill out.
that said, the realtor who made that ad really out to give her head a shake.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
February 18th, 2011 at 8:55 am 108
[...] at vancouvercondo.info February 14th, 2011 at 7:57 am- “Another family gathering, another discussion that led to RE: A family member was given an [...]
Like or Dislike:
0 
0