Friday Free-for-all!
It’s the end of the week and that means it’s time for another free-for-all, our regular end of the week news round up and open topic economic discussion thread. Here are a few recent links to kick off the chat:
-Vancouver Real Estate professionals all a-twitter
-Vancouver Real Estate explained by cartoon characters(vids)
-Stress test your mortgage for higher rates
-Canada’s worst spenders: British Columbia
-Neil Mohindra of Fraser Institute on CMHC liabilities (vid)
-Home renovations a bad investment?
-BC Commercial Real Estate hits record high
-Gov spends money to let people know it spent money
-Alberta now home to cheap housing
-US Home sales rise, prices fall
-Spain hobbled by Real Estate bubble fallout
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So what are you seeing out there? Post your news links, thoughts and anecdotes here and have an excellent weekend!
February 27th, 2011 at 9:36 pm
@chip: Yeah, it's amazing what a unilaterally undervalued currency, a communist government, no workers rights, no environmental laws, no respect for patents and the world's biggest housing bubble can do for a country!
As far as China "steamrolling" the west is concerned, I expect their depression to kick in long before that happens.
February 27th, 2011 at 8:42 pm
China is the biggest exporter of mobile phones, TVs, CD players, washing machines, silk and perhaps most importantly for Vancouverites on those long rainy winter nights, sex toys.
Face it, China is moving up the value-added ladder even quicker than the Japanese and Koreans. I wish it wasn't so but Asia is going to steamroll many Western countries that are more interested in running up debts, happy clappy schools and banning the internal combustion engine.
February 27th, 2011 at 4:23 pm
@jjbink: You would pretty much have to stop using computers.
February 27th, 2011 at 4:01 pm
It'd be interesting to see if people can really boycott 100% everything that comes out of China including those precious iPhones. Or is it all just big talk?
February 27th, 2011 at 4:01 pm
I am desperate for a retail store the sells stuff made in Canada, by Canadians, and that did not travel thousands of km to break after using them for 2 days. Any address?
February 27th, 2011 at 3:29 pm
@ best place on meth. I am on a different clock so forgive the lapse, yes I thought that was funny too and meant to write in my comment she pulled out the last stick! how ironic!
February 27th, 2011 at 2:18 pm
@chopper
Ha! I've had the same idea, so a lot of people must be thinking the same way.
February 27th, 2011 at 2:02 pm
@chopper: "If we chose quality over price"
Given the construction quality of houses in Vancouver, is it any surprise people choose items whose quality matches their living quarters?
February 27th, 2011 at 1:22 pm
@Best place on meth: ''If we had any decency we’d boycott China 100% for as long as they thumb their noses at basic human rights and rule of law.''
I couldn't agree more. I've been thinking for some time about opening a retail outlet and naming it something like ''Nothing from China'' and stocking it with crap from any other country but China, Like a lot of people I'm sick and tired of buying chinese crap, it's time to let some other third world country have a go at selling us crap.
On a serious note though, they sell this crap to us because North Americans are obsessed with buying the cheapest crap we can find. Other nationalities, like the Italians, focus more on quality – shoes, furniture etc. If we chose quality over price, China would suffer.
February 27th, 2011 at 12:55 pm
@Patiently Waiting:
Patiently, I thought this was one of the funniest lines:
"The project was received favourably in a 1999 New York Times article, based on information provided by Wellsby."
I guess the New York Times doesn't do its research as stringently as Realty Radio 98, The Province, or The Vancouver Sun!
February 27th, 2011 at 12:25 pm
Golf courses are no different than Whistler…
The recreation facility anchors residential development.
I think the Chilliwack developer is full of shite re sewers (no pun intended) that's a red herring, as my travels in the Shuswap have shown many mini " poopoo and peepee" stand alone treatment plants for development at waterfront.
Basic answer is frivolous residential developments that lose their anchoring cachet are bad investemtns when RE tanks, especially given they likely have some strata components that further gouge the purchasers.
February 27th, 2011 at 11:59 am
A planeload of Rich Asians should take care of this:
Rick Wellsby’s vision of a luxurious golf resort and housing development in Chilliwack has faded like a bad putt on the 18th green.
The company Wellsby founded, Blackburn Developments Ltd., has been granted creditor protection in B.C. Supreme Court with debts of about $75 million held by dozens of chagrined investors.
Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/Chilliwack+developer+g…
February 27th, 2011 at 11:03 am
166 Priced Out Canadian Says:
February 27th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
Canadians will just stay here and declare BK as they always have. As for the “rich Asians”, I thought they all paid cash?
*****
Rich asians may have the cash, but they don’t pay in cash. They borrow as much as possible from the banks because they view it as shorting the dollar, and if shit hits the fan and they need to walk, the Canadian taxpayer is on the hook instead of their own assets.
=====================
Bang on….
A neighbour sold to some Asians…who offered them a good deal….over $1 million
Out of curiosity, I did a title search, and they hold a mortgage registered with a major bank.
My guess is these offshore interests can and will bail if the SHTF…..ie go back the Asia if the price drops or economy collapses. As far as I can determine they paid a peak price for what they bought, no long term sustainability in price.
The house is rarely occupied
February 27th, 2011 at 10:58 am
Gee……the truth oozes out….at the 11th hour,
Vancouver = # 1 City = why…..world's biggest $$$ laundry machine on perpetual "spin cycle".
No, our retarded Gov't/s allow offshore investment while pappa san goes back to the Far East, runs a sweatshop to manufacture i-pods, cheap electronics and 99% of most Wal -Mart stock etc.
Family is parked here, taking advantage of our hard earned and overtaxed social systems ie education, medicare , 17 year olds driving $ 50,000 cars…..driving up our ICBC rates. Universities WE pay for abuse the system and their lands hel in trust,….RE developemnt to attract offshore money……drive up the fees to de-facto exclude their own citizens.
Now there is an outrage re extended family immigartion restrictions, when an actuarial analysis indicates the STHF if we don't close the borders.
a major clusterf*ck….
February 27th, 2011 at 9:24 am
@rosy:
It's mind boggling to me that western nations like Canada are so hypocritical when it comes to a totalitarian, polluted shithole country like China.
If we had any decency we'd boycott China 100% for as long as they thumb their noses at basic human rights and rule of law.
Instead, we not only trade freely with them but we suck up to them with our political and business leaders kissing these scumbag's asses every chance they get.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110227/ap_on_re_as/a…
We don't have a moral leg to stand on.
February 27th, 2011 at 9:22 am
171 Best place on meth Says:
February 27th, 2011 at 5:01 pm
@Boombust:
Top cities for what?
What does Vancouver have that anyone would want?
Melbourne and Vienna are both awesome by the way, although Melbourne is suffering from the same real estate stupidity we are at the moment.
==============
Yeah….you can tell a lot by watching Mad Max, Crocodile Dundee and Amadeus …..meth man
February 27th, 2011 at 9:14 am
@Patiently Waiting:
"I was saying basically the same thing. "
Cool. I misread you. Sorry. I'm just so used to hearing people talk about things the other way that it makes me jump to conclusions.
February 27th, 2011 at 9:08 am
China bracing for demonstrations … maybe "I buy three,my husband by three" wasn't such a bad idea.
February 27th, 2011 at 9:01 am
@Boombust:
Top cities for what?
What does Vancouver have that anyone would want?
Melbourne and Vienna are both awesome by the way, although Melbourne is suffering from the same real estate stupidity we are at the moment.
February 27th, 2011 at 8:54 am
On CNN this morning, they reported the TOP cities of the world in which to live…
Number ONE: Vancouver
#2 Melbourne
#3 Vienna
BTW…Honolulu was 30th, He he…
February 27th, 2011 at 8:32 am
@64 patriotz Says: "…. the RE pushers are the ones who have a “socialist” entitlement mentality, not us."
Precisely, and it's point which inexplicably finds itself in the blind spot of new-'Reaganites' and Laffer-believers. The body of law protecting corporations is staggering, as is the amount of tax-payer funded stimulus, so don't bother with that 'open law of the jungle' BS.
February 27th, 2011 at 8:28 am
@N: I was saying basically the same thing. You can hear what you want.
February 27th, 2011 at 8:12 am
@patriotz:
"We don’t want anyone to “provide” jobs, we just want this idiocy to end so the real economy can have a fighting chance."
That's alright then. It's not what Patiently said, but as you are using the first person plural, I am going to take it that you are speaking for him (as a member in good standing of the Bear Block, I guess) and that that is what he meant. In which case I agree. BC would be more competitive if people spent their time making things instead of repricing land.
February 27th, 2011 at 7:48 am
Canadians will just stay here and declare BK as they always have. As for the “rich Asians”, I thought they all paid cash?
*****
Rich asians may have the cash, but they don't pay in cash. They borrow as much as possible from the banks because they view it as shorting the dollar, and if shit hits the fan and they need to walk, the Canadian taxpayer is on the hook instead of their own assets.
They didn't get rich by being stupid – they got rich maybe through embezzelment, drugs, skimming from state enterprises – but not from being stupid.
And before this statement begs the question, "if they are so smart, why are they buying at peak pricing and not following fundaments" the questions has already been addressed many times – money laundering, buying citizenship, speculation.
February 27th, 2011 at 7:35 am
@fixie guy:
"Governments can work towards providing the social environment that generates long term competitiveness and jobs, "
People are inherently competitive and people will produce things whether there is a govt or not. Job creation usually increases as govt interference declines. Texas created half of all US jobs last year even as its legislature is limited to meeting for 140 days a year and China/India only took off once the govt got out of the way.
We used to think that govt was necessary for basic infrastructure, defense and a smattering of other things. Now they have to provide all of our health care, insure our housing loans, tax carbon dioxide, provide daycare, fund films on Argentinian socialism by Naomi Klein, tell MacDonalds they can't fire employees with skin disease, mandate mercury-filled light bulbs and god knows what else.
February 27th, 2011 at 6:58 am
@N:
What we have a problem with is that the massive RE bubble has misallocated resources and inflated costs of production to the extent that it's not profitable for a business here to employ people in any industry that has to compete nationally or globally.
We don't want anyone to "provide" jobs, we just want this idiocy to end so the real economy can have a fighting chance. As a matter of fact we want the federal and provincial governments to stop providing jobs to the RE industry through their programs promoting home ownership. As you can see very well by their reaction to the end of 35 year mortgage guarantees, the RE pushers are the ones who have a "socialist" entitlement mentality, not us.
February 27th, 2011 at 6:57 am
@BP Spill: Because price increases whole market have been driven by psychology not fundamentals. Have a look outside Metro where many communities are finding this out.
February 27th, 2011 at 6:40 am
@Anonymous:
As the article said, the reason the Irish are fleeing to the UK to declare bankruptcy is that its bankruptcy laws are much more liberal than Ireland's and it's easy for them to settle there.
Canadians will just stay here and declare BK as they always have. As for the "rich Asians", I thought they all paid cash?
February 27th, 2011 at 6:34 am
@Bear Patrol:
I don't think you know what "idiot savant" means, but be that as it may.
My point is that the view that jobs are something that are to be provided rather than something to be made is not that far form the idea that buying a house should make you rich for life. It's a hand-out, entitlement view of things. If Patiently had a specific grievance as to an aspect of BC legislation that holds back business, that would be a legitimate beef, but a general grievance to the effect that there are not enough jobs being provided is an outmoded socialist approach to things that sees workers as entitled recipients of some state controlled resource, rather that the owners of a resource (their skills) which they have the right to sell or otherwise profit from as they see fit.
February 27th, 2011 at 5:34 am
@BP Spill:
Who cares what is next, because we all know there will be a next. For five years your have shat on all the RE industry’s reasons for continued price strength. Why discount this one?
Because no one can provide non-anecdotal evidence. I'm all ears/eyes if you or anyone can…
February 27th, 2011 at 5:22 am
Free money kept the bubble inflated in 09/10. Now, it’s “planeloads” of Chinese middle class (Sun, yesterday). What’s next? Alien speculators?
****
Who cares what is next, because we all know there will be a next. For five years your have shat on all the RE industry's reasons for continued price strength. Why discount this one?
February 27th, 2011 at 5:14 am
Free money kept the bubble inflated in 09/10. Now, it's "planeloads" of Chinese middle class (Sun, yesterday). What's next? Alien speculators?
February 27th, 2011 at 4:58 am
"The economy doesn’t provide jobs"
Of all the dumb dumb things said on this blog, Bear Patrol says this is new leading candidate for Idiot Savant Academy Award.
February 27th, 2011 at 4:48 am
@151 N Says: "The economy doesn’t provide jobs,"
Bullshit. The CMHC and Hasper's 'Action Plan' (ie. print money) provided jobs out the ying-yang for real estate and construction. Governments can work towards providing the social environment that generates long term competitiveness and jobs, just because they choose to cynically whore the process for cheap votes doesn't invalidate the concept.
February 27th, 2011 at 4:20 am
@rosy: "Why no mention of U.S. t-bills rallying "
Oil goes up and tbills rally. What the heck do you think that means? Bear Patrol says high oil prices means China gives more money to Saudi Overlords and less to Westside granny estates.
February 27th, 2011 at 4:10 am
On UBC campus, the inventory has reached its peak value of 2010 (around 110).
February 27th, 2011 at 3:06 am
"The economy doesn’t provide jobs"
Correct, in this province the economy loses jobs.
February 27th, 2011 at 3:06 am
The retun of Scam Good
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Chinese+investment+surge+hits+Metro+Vancouver+housing+market/4352746/story.html
February 27th, 2011 at 2:51 am
@Patiently Waiting:
"I want the economy to produce something real and provide real jobs, "
The economy doesn't provide jobs, people and corporations do. If you want more jobs, find a way to do something more efficiently than it is currently being done and start doing it. Be the change.