Friday Free-For-All!
you know what time it is, long it up!
-More OV condos available, problems with windows, floors and heat fixed soon!
-Church torn down to make more condos
-Plenty of choice for island buyers
-What can you afford?
-Vancouvers baby steps define our time
-Carney warns on global risk
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So what are you seeing out there? Post your news links, thoughts and anecdotes here and have an excellent weekend!
May 19th, 2011 at 7:07 pm 1
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business…
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May 19th, 2011 at 8:46 pm 2
Mark Carney spoke candidly at a function in Toronto and his "off the record" remarks got leaked. I guess he doesn't consider the general public important enough to hear what he really thinks.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business…
So the GFC isn't over yet? Hoocoodanode?
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May 19th, 2011 at 10:16 pm 3
Shysters. All of them.
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May 19th, 2011 at 10:48 pm 4
Carney always speaks candidly. You just have to listen a bit more closely than you do to people who have little to lose by being wrong.
Still, everyone's sh!ts smell a little.
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May 19th, 2011 at 11:01 pm 5
Here is the latest affordability report.
http://www.rbc.com/economics/market/pdf/house.pdf
It's not as bad as I initially thought. Condos are still pretty affordable, which is a positive sign for price stability. Detached homes are getting excessive though.
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May 19th, 2011 at 11:44 pm 6
Financial Post:Vancouver housing testing 'rationality'
http://www.financialpost.com/personal-finance/mor…
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May 20th, 2011 at 12:23 am 7
RE: the BBC article
This article captured everything that is good about Vancouver and in the same moment captured everything this city is throwing away. Forward-thinking my ass. Yes, we have racial harmony. Yes, we have avoided concrete freeways through the central core.
But wait: are we building on this legacy? I don't think "thinking forward" is done by by widening our existing concrete monster, highway 1, and adding another concrete monster bridge, instead of creating a transit system that is immune to traffic jams and to the inevitable end of oil.
Secondly, what about racial harmony? Through idiotic policies the government has allowed a runaway bubble in the housing market which is already causing racial tensions and scapegoating that will invevitably get worse as the economy hollows out even further.
And regarding housing policies and accommodating a growing population: where are the 4 bedroom row houses? where are the 4 bedroom apartments? Where can a family live in stability and grow with the community without taking on insane and unsustainable debt as well as myriad basement renters to own a crack shack tear down single family house? Is this how thinking ahead is done? What about energy costs rising in the future – how will McMansions and "Boomboxes" be heated efficiently?
It isn't about "affordable housing". Of course families can rent. It's about sensible housing, and sensible choices, and renting is not sensible for families, nor is it sensible for building communities where people know and can trust their neighbours. Single family homes are not sensible where higher density is required. Building fucking stupid shoeboxes in the sky that only hamsters could live comfortably in, to maximize the number of units to sell to flippers and specuvestors, is not sensible housing for families.
Good luck with being "the city of the future." I see this ending more like "the Detroit of the future". A city that had it all and threw it away.
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May 20th, 2011 at 12:41 am 8
@TPFKAA:
Some good observations for sure.
Row houses would be great and there is pretty much none of that product around. The problem is that you can't make money building that kind of product. Land prices are simply way too high. The alternative approach that Vancouver is trying to pursue is lane housing. I am starting to think that's a bad idea though as it gets messy.
Apartments are built to market demand. Four bedroom apartments would command a very high price. That pushes most people into attached or detached housing, hence that product doesn't get built.
The trend right now with apartments is still towards smaller units. There is still a lot of demand for affordable housing and low price product sells strong.
That just the structure of this market. There just isn't much of a market for the product you want.
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May 20th, 2011 at 12:56 am 9
@Dave:
That doesn't make sense. Row housing would give you the same amount of dwelling space per 33×120 as laneway, or "SFH" with suites. The difference is that each dwelling would have freehold title which would allow each household to own.
There are basically two things causing the problems with family housing in metro Vancouver, both of them being market distortions created by government:
1. Refusal of municipalities to allow freehold row housing which has resulted in the market resorting to "solutions" like "SFH" with suites and laneway.
2. Inflated land prices which are the result of inflated end product prices which are of course the result of the federal government's absurd mortgage guarantees.
Get rid of these distortions and the market will fix family housing. Don't hold your breath waiting.
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May 20th, 2011 at 1:15 am 10
I just heard the following on CKNW: RBC Senior Econominist discussing how Vancouver housing costs 72% of income. Then Michael Levy comes on and says it is irrelevant as Vancouver residents are not buying, it is rich wealthy foreigners. Celebrating the fact that we are selling our city to the highest foreign bidder. Levy then said, if Vancouver born children want to buy in the area, they will need to buy in Mission and commute.
Do the powers that be really want to drive all local born residents out of this city and replace them with Chinese? How does this benefit anyone?
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May 20th, 2011 at 1:25 am 11
@patriotz:
It doesn't follow that profitability is the same just because the dwelling spaces are equal. Laneway housing is typically a marginal cost to a home owner in which the land component isn't really factored into the equation. You can spend an extra couple hundred grand and get yourself a return on that investment.
Let's say you purchased a tear down home for $800k and plan to densify it with row housing (obviously you would want more lots, but let's just stick to one for now). Another $100k to rezone, service and prep the lot. Each row house will come in around $300 to $400k, or about $700k for both. That's about $1.6 million before holding costs and profits. You would have to sell each row house for about $1 million to make any money. Does that sound like a good opportunity to you? A buyer is better off just getting themselves an older house on a larger lot.
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May 20th, 2011 at 1:26 am 12
@Dave:
Do really think 40% of pre-tax income for a condo in Vancouver is affordable?
I don't believe that number even includes strata fees.
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May 20th, 2011 at 1:54 am 13
@Best place on meth:
Yes I do. The average GVRD income can afford the average Vancouver condo. Keep in mind, those costs are for Vancouver, not Burnaby, Coquitlam or Richmond would have more affordable offerings.
Condo prices haven't taken off to the extent of SFHs this past year. I think condo prices are right where they should be. Detached homes have gotten ahead of where they should be.
That's not to say a correction won't take condo prices with it. I just don't see much price moderation happening.
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:01 am 14
@Dave:
Of course laneway could still make economic sense if you had an existing dwelling in good shape, even if the municipalities allowed lot subdivisions for row housing.
But building on bare lots after teardowns greatly outnumbers laneway building today. That's the market saying that laneway is really just a niche rather than a general solution.
And what really counts for affordable ownership for families going forward is what's allowed in new developments east of the Port Mann.
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:04 am 15
@Dave: "Laneway housing is typically a marginal cost to a home owner in which the land component isn’t really factored into the equation."
A good comparison is strata duplex and multiplex, which the City does allow in certain areas. Detached "SFH" neighbourhoods have pushed back hard against rezoning for multiplex and, guess what, we get large houses with multiple suites instead, basically the same thing except now the homeowner needs to be part-time amateur landlord as well and share the common yard with whatever tenants they have at any given time.
Density is, and has been, coming to Van West in the form of semi-legal dwellings. I expect current resident associations to continue to basically ignore it in the name of keeping up appearances of the way it used to be. I also expect the City to shamelessly ignore illegal basement suites.
BTW row housing does exist in other Greater Vancouver cities, so it's not really a demand argument, it has much more to do with zoning and by law restrictions.
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:09 am 16
@jesse:
Jesse, row housing is located in other municipalities because you can build that product and make a profit. The number change completely once you get out of Vancouver. It's much easier to build that kind of product when you have a huge undeveloped site.
Zoning and bylaws don't enter into it. If it made sense, developers would be all over it.
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:16 am 17
@patriotz:
I agree. New homes by far outnumber laneway housing.
Building affordable housing east of the Port Mann isn't a challenge. That's simple and it already exists, but I doubt you agree on my definition of affordability. If affordability was the challenge, then they wouldn't be building McMansions on 1/4 acre lots.
The challenge for the burbs in my opinion is transportation and community development, not affordability. I think the suburbs are ugly and poorly developed. I love the free market, but in this case it fails in some aspects.
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:22 am 18
@TPFKAA:
Racial Tension?
It is absurd because will not bethe case in Vancouver.Vancouver population is overwhelmingly Chinese who have the wealth and government support from China to prevent white Canadian to launch a smililar riot against Chinese like the one in 19 century.Nowadays China is great enough to be respect and fear of.Who would dear to provoke the lion.China is no more a sick man of Asia but a rising sun which will shine and nurture those who has chosen the right path but against those who dare to test the patient and power of Great China.American had learned a lesson during 1996 Taiwan Straight incident in which a Chinese nuclear Sub repelled the 7th fleet.
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:28 am 19
@Dave:
>>>I think condo prices are right where they should be.<<<
Seriously? The benchmark is close to half a million.
40% pretax is 55% after tax. 55% of income to own a condo and that's with very low interest rates.
I consider that rate to be doable, but hardly affordable.
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:35 am 20
Check this out…
“We fear that the Vancouver market is becoming increasingly disconnected from local demand conditions and vulnerable to a painful correction, especially once interest rates resume their ascent,” said Robert Hogue, senior economist with RBC and author of the report.
http://www.financialpost.com/personal-finance/mor…
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:35 am 21
@Best place on meth:
"40% pretax is 55% after tax. "
Isn't there a CMHC limit around 32%?
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:35 am 22
Sorry Noticed someone posted it already
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:39 am 23
@Anonymouse:
"This is a way of estimating the maximum home-related expenses you can afford to pay each month. To qualify for CMHC insurance, the total should not exceed 32% of your gross monthly household income."
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:51 am 24
@Anonymouse:
Yes.
These numbers (along with the legendary 72% of income to own a house) are hypothetical numbers derived from median prices and median incomes. They do not represent what actual buyers are actually paying.
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:53 am 25
@patriotz:
"They do not represent what actual buyers are actually paying."
But it does suggest that if they're paying over 32% then they're doing so without CMHC insurance, and therefore are putting at least 25% down.
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:55 am 26
@Phil:
it shows you who they're really working for, at least.
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:56 am 27
@Phil:
"Do the powers that be really want to drive all local born residents out of this city and replace them with Chinese? How does this benefit anyone?"
It benefits homeowners and the home ownership rate is 70%. Try telling these people, the majority, that they are not entitled to $2,000,000 – triple what they paid five years ago – for their Van West dump. All these people have won the lottery and the powers that be don't want to take it away from them.
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:58 am 28
@WFT?:
I should add that, i don't like it but that is reality.
The only real option is to move to a better city like Seattle, if that is feasable for you. Otherwise, there is no option but to take Levy's advice if you want to own.
Vancouver is a chinese city now.
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:59 am 29
An interesting article …
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-16/chinese-…
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May 20th, 2011 at 3:03 am 30
Sorry … already been posted
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May 20th, 2011 at 3:06 am 31
@WFT?: Vancouver (aka Hongcouver) is going to going to be chincouver
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May 20th, 2011 at 3:18 am 32
@WFT?:
"vancouver is a chinese city now"
and how exactly is that in the spirit of our multicultural, egalitarian country?
it's just another canard, it's just not true – we ought to stop parroting these things and offer up instead evidence of locals doing well, because there are many.
at the same time, how are my chinese landlord's 1st generation english speaking hockey playing sons still called chinese and not canadian? we have serious perception issues.
dumb american-style triumphalism or an organized psy-ops campaign as part of larger economic muddling – put on your tin foil hat and take your pick?
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May 20th, 2011 at 3:26 am 33
I should add that, i don’t like it but that is reality.
The only real option is to move to a better city like Seattle, if that is feasable for you. Otherwise, there is no option but to take Levy’s advice if you want to own.
Vancouver is a chinese city now.
_______
Wow! Bear capitulation!
Aren't you glad you sat on the sidelines for so many years or sold your place?
Finally, some bears have admitted that waiting for a "crash" in Vancouver is stupid because the Chinese money will simply buy up what you sell.
So there you have it – it really is different here!
And it will be even more different as the jewel of North America becomes another Bejing. Enjoy crossing the street as Porsches with 17 year old kids try to run you over; enjoy leaning out and touching your neighbour as the McMansion with 4 family suites gets build right next to your property line; enjoy dealing with your mainland landlord who increases rent every year; enjoy sending you kids to school where they will be helping their ESL classmates learn the language; and enjoy paying for the social services that those satellite families use because Daddy is back on the mainland earning big bucks and not claiming a cent to CRA.
So funny how bears denied the impact of Asian money for so long as a realtor ploy, but now that it is finally dawning on them that not only is there a lot of truth in the impact of Asian money, but more importantly, their denial of the truth screwed them out of owing in the city they are so desperate to own in.
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May 20th, 2011 at 3:29 am 34
@和谐的房地产泡沫:
"how exactly is that in the spirit of our multicultural, egalitarian country"
It is in the spirit of reality.
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May 20th, 2011 at 3:32 am 35
@Garth “the tool” Turner:
"owing in the city they are so desperate to own in."
The irony of your comment escapes you. Most bears are thankful that they have not invested in the "new Beijing" because they don't want to live there. The vancouver you describe sounds like a horrible place to live.
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May 20th, 2011 at 3:36 am 36
Don't forget that buyers in Vancouver are often existing owners with equity. They are either trading up or down, or buying additional properties. This is why we hear of increasing downpayments alongside higher prices. Even if they don't roll their equity into the downpayment, bankers know about their existing equity.
The craziest buyers are doubling-down and will get wiped-out soon enough. Sadly, I know too many people I care about who fall into that category
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May 20th, 2011 at 3:38 am 37
@Dave: "If it made sense, developers would be all over it."
They can get way more money by selling unproductive assets to speculators so the benefits to developers for row housing will be marginal. What the City needs for long-term economic growth does not match what makes money in the short-term, which are small condos and semi-legal dwellings.
Higher density housing can be shoehorned into lower density areas; it's as simple as allowing subdivision. One wide lot in Van West can produce 3-4 rowhouses and maintain adequate clearance to adjacent lots. Residents should be screaming for this: their properties would increase in value, right?
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May 20th, 2011 at 3:39 am 38
@WFT?:
i disagree
the chinese fighting eachother for kerrisdale and kits and west van
they aren't exactly scrambling for abby or poco
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May 20th, 2011 at 3:41 am 39
@WFT?:
that's because it is
nothing like being looked down upon in your own town
ugly classism = antithesis of 'real' canadian values
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May 20th, 2011 at 3:57 am 40
Foreign investment / speculation (from whichever country) is to the benefit of property owners but to the detriment of those residents wishing to own. It is even discouraging some people from living here – people who could bring well needed skills and vitality to Vancouver. This is unfair especially if the investors / speculators are not even living here. Of course, the other "downside", to put it mildly, is that, when it comes to the crunch, these people will bail out en masse.
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May 20th, 2011 at 4:01 am 41
@jesse:
Remember also that strata ownership provide customers for management firms which often have sweetheart deals with the developers.
Another reason for municipalities to favour strata. The RE industry has a lot more political clout than individual would be freehold owners.
I don't think anything will change as long as the current bubble keeps going. Too many vested interests are making too much money. It's only when it all collapses that voters and councils will look for something better.
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May 20th, 2011 at 4:04 am 42
@jjss:
Actually it's not an economic detriment to those wishing to own – i.e. renters, as it provides cheap capital for housing which results in lower rents.
It's a detriment to those who actually buy.
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May 20th, 2011 at 4:20 am 43
"Chinese city…it’s just another canard, it’s just not true – we ought to stop parroting these things and offer up instead evidence of locals doing well, because there are many."
The locals that are doing well are the ones selling their houses and leaving. The locals that are not doing well are being turned into refugees in their own city by the flood of dirty money fleeing to Vancouver real estate from the People's Republic of China. In that sense Vancouver is not just a Chinese city, it is a city that is very affected by corruption in China.
Many Vancouverites have a sense that they are being betrayed by their own government and that their city is being sold from underneath them to the highest bidder from the nearest communist dictatorship. That is more similar to the feeling of hopelessness a Chinese factory worker has than anything resembling what a Canadian dream was. So I think Vancouver is indeed becoming a Chinese city.
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May 20th, 2011 at 4:22 am 44
Actually it’s not an economic detriment to those wishing to own – i.e. renters, as it provides cheap capital for housing which results in lower rents.
It’s a detriment to those who actually buy.
____________
Lol – yes, explain it to all those Mexicans in Mexican resort towns how great it is renting all those American and Canadian owned houses in their communities.
What's that? Those foreign owners don't actually rent to the locales because its not worth the hassle, or worth the measly rents.
Vancouver has become a "Mexican resort town" whether you like it or not.
Yes, absentee owners are so great for renter especially when you move beyond the "economic detriment" to the social detriment. Most of them don't bother renting the place to begin with, especially when some cultures view occupancy as depreciating the value of the home (read 64 million empty condos in China). Factor in living in a neighbourhood with a bunch of absentee owners, and you soon realize that the neighbourhood feels empty, schools close because of lack of students, local shops shut down from a lack of business,all neighbourly activities such as saying hello, having play dates for kids or block parties for special occasions all pretty much end.
Oh yes, renting in one of those "ghost" neighbourhoods must be such a treat!
The economic and social implications of foreign speculation and investment are intertwined.
What a stupid comment, especially from Putz
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May 20th, 2011 at 4:41 am 45
The irony of your comment escapes you. Most bears are thankful that they have not invested in the “new Beijing” because they don’t want to live there. The vancouver you describe sounds like a horrible place to live.
)))))))
Yes, yes, they clearly don't want to live in Vancouver or the new Beijing. That is why they obsess over it daily on this blog and are getting upset that the foreign buyers are taking the city away from locals. Clearly, they are thankful – lol
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May 20th, 2011 at 4:50 am 46
At Dave
"Here is the latest affordability report.
http://www.rbc.com/economics/market/pdf/house.pdf
It’s not as bad as I initially thought. Condos are still pretty affordable, which is a positive sign for price stability. Detached homes are getting excessive though."
This measure is riddled with flaws. It is far less useful than traditional measures of value such as price/rent and price/income ratios
http://www.theeconomicanalyst.com/content/why-hou…
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May 20th, 2011 at 4:51 am 47
I heard that HAM is flocking out of Florida to Coquitlam.
$450K in Coquitlam (the best place on earth)
http://tinyurl.com/3g6n3vk
$450K in West Palm Beach
http://tinyurl.com/3n2z4pr
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May 20th, 2011 at 5:01 am 48
I heard that HAM is flocking out of Florida to Coquitlam.
_______
Lol – silly bear. The house is not important – the almighty passport is – what don't you people get by now.
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May 20th, 2011 at 5:09 am 49
Our favorite UBC prof is back in the news:
We shouldn't set limits on foreign investment: expert
http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/229379…
I like how Tsur uses the term "investor"
I think we would all agree that foreign investment is generally positive. Having said that, non-resident ownership of a crackshack on the westside doesn't qualify as investment. Especially when said crackshack sits vacant or is underutilized.
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May 20th, 2011 at 5:25 am 50
@Eddie:
That palm tree lined mansion on 1 acre in West Palm Beach blows.
Give me the 1/2 duplex in Coquitlam any day.
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May 20th, 2011 at 5:27 am 51
@Frank Grimes: Tsur kind of admits that some of this foreign buying could be fictional.
"there aren't any firm figures" = bullshit?
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May 20th, 2011 at 5:32 am 52
@Frank Grimes:
If Sewer Somerville is bleating about foreign investment restrictions then that may be a sign that some restrictions may be coming.
Anyway, it's good to see HAM out in the open now and being debated.
Let the outrage simmer, stew and boil over!
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May 20th, 2011 at 5:52 am 53
Anyway, it’s good to see HAM out in the open now and being debated.
Let the outrage simmer, stew and boil over!
_____
Lol – silly, little, naive bear!
Ham has been around since the late 1980s/early 1990s and this has been the third wave of hot asian money. People have had lots of time to complain about foreign investors and the changing composition of the city. But alas, Vancouverites are weak, passive aggressive, and greedy. It is too late to complain – changes have been made that can not be altered and there is nothing that you can do now from a numbers game. The time to complain was back in the 1990s…
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May 20th, 2011 at 5:55 am 54
@T Time:
You're referring to the Hong Kong money?
The difference this time is that it's dirty, corrupt money brought in by Chinese criminals.
I'm sure you and Sewer are ok with money laundering, but I'm not.
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May 20th, 2011 at 6:04 am 55
@T Time:
Agreed. If you are not a rich asian, it is time to come up with a relocation or emigration strategy. That will be more useful than complaining and writing letters.
I'll bet that in the next decade emmigration lawyers (rather than immigration lawyers) will have a growing business.
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May 20th, 2011 at 6:04 am 56
@T Time:
You’re referring to the Hong Kong money?
The difference this time is that it’s dirty, corrupt money brought in by Chinese criminals.
I’m sure you and Sewer are ok with money laundering, but I’m not.
_______
Lol – young, naive little bear…
It is not "different" this time – oh the irony…
Asian gangs, triads, and human trafficking started with the 1990s HAM – this wave just builds on those wonderful foundations.
And the whole satellite family using social services while Daddy is away earning his pay in Mainland China is not new. Back then, the phenomena was known as "latchkey kids" and Daddy was working in Kowloon Hong Kong.
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May 20th, 2011 at 6:08 am 57
The BBC's article is written by someone from the "Lonely Planet" meant for tourists. It omitted the past racial riots in Singapore and Singapore's admission of their mistake of hastily admitting HAM from China. If all is that rosy, why BG Lee ownes a house British Property since the 80's? And why his only brother has emigrated to Australia?
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May 20th, 2011 at 6:22 am 58
@T Time:
China is 200 times bigger than Hong Kong.
But you're right, we should just do nothing and look the other way while the criminal keep pouring in.
Nah! Bring on the outrage!
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May 20th, 2011 at 6:28 am 59
China is 200 times bigger than Hong Kong.
But you’re right, we should just do nothing and look the other way while the criminal keep pouring in.
Nah! Bring on the outrage!
_______
Immigration rates were higher in the 1990s then they are now….so China, being 200x bigger than HK (one and the same now) means nothing now…
More HAM came in during that time…
Go get your megaphone and pick your non-Asian street corner in Vancouver and get the rage rollin'
Two decades too late…
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May 20th, 2011 at 6:29 am 60
As for money laundering, slave trade, Triads, drugs, prostitution, etc. by Asian countries. Vancouver is just Asia's whore.
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May 20th, 2011 at 6:33 am 61
City of Vancouver wants to hear from you!
Talk Housing with Us
What are important steps we need to take to increase housing for low and modest income households?
What are important steps we need to take to end street homelessness by 2015?
What are the important steps we need to take to make the city affordable again?
Well the last one wasn't one of the questions but, hey, why deal with the elephants in the room? Go over and let them have it.
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May 20th, 2011 at 6:52 am 62
What do you mean its underutilized? It is rented to a grow-op people…I see no better use for a cracshack aside from making crack.
————
Our favorite UBC prof is back in the news:
We shouldn’t set limits on foreign investment: expert
http://www.news1130.com/news/l…..ent-expert
I like how Tsur uses the term “investor”
I think we would all agree that foreign investment is generally positive. Having said that, non-resident ownership of a crackshack on the westside doesn’t qualify as investment. Especially when said crackshack sits vacant or is underutilized.
————–
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May 20th, 2011 at 6:53 am 63
@T Time:
Megaphone not needed, it's the 21st century.
You think this is the only website where I'm stirring the pot?
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May 20th, 2011 at 6:55 am 64
How about you don't get your BC healthcare card unless you live here and pay taxes. It's 21st century – its not that hard to enforce this – CBSA has all the data on entering/leaving the country you need.
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May 20th, 2011 at 7:04 am 65
@OWG:
You don't.
If you do, that an enforcement problem, and we know who to blame for that.
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May 20th, 2011 at 7:07 am 66
@OWG:
How about you don’t get your BC healthcare card unless you live here and pay taxes.
You don’t.
An individual must be a resident of B.C. in order to qualify for medical coverage under MSP. A resident is a person who meets all of the following conditions:
* must be a citizen of Canada or be lawfully admitted to Canada for permanent residence;
* must make his or her home in B.C.;
* must be physically present in B.C. at least six months in a calendar year; and
* dependents of MSP beneficiaries are eligible for coverage if they are residents of B.C.
If you do, that an enforcement problem, and we know who to blame for that.
______
Lol – as the provincial minister put it – there are 9 million care cards in use in BC with only 4 million in the population – there is fraud…
A love the "these are the rules, so there should be no problems" interpretations – so academic and naive…
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May 20th, 2011 at 7:11 am 67
@Best place on meth:
"You think this is the only website where I’m stirring the pot?"
And look at the success you've had so far.
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May 20th, 2011 at 7:14 am 68
@Btwn:
So why the F*ck doesn't the provincial government do something about it?
Do you get the point this time?
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May 20th, 2011 at 7:17 am 69
Is this a laneway house or a garage?
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/apa/2384556…
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May 20th, 2011 at 7:17 am 70
I am talking about enforcement not theoretical rules. All you have to do is link the Customs systems with federal and provincial tax systems and you are done. Same applies for passports for people who live outside of Canada. We are not Monaco for Christ sake – we are a real country with real population and a healthcare budget eating into everything else. So tighten up the enforcement. I just hate how naive Canadian system is and how open to abuse it is. Not to mention that our government is so behind the times in terms of technology that we are more like a 3rd world country then a modern western democracy.
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May 20th, 2011 at 7:18 am 71
@Anonymouse:
I'll put you down with douchebag Sommerville in the "we're happy to import crime" camp.
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May 20th, 2011 at 7:55 am 72
@Btwn: I remembered a few years back when I was in Hong Kong in a taxi that the driver told me that he also was a Canadian and that over 10% of the population in HK holds a Canadian passport. Heaven help us and our medical system!
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May 20th, 2011 at 7:57 am 73
@Best place on meth:
'I’ll put you down with douchebag Sommerville in the “we’re happy to import crime” camp.'
Still waiting on you to provide stats for that, actually. You seem eager to think that anybody who's made it for themselves in China is a criminal, but are completely unable to prove it.
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May 20th, 2011 at 8:07 am 74
@VanRant:
"… in a taxi that the driver told me.. "
If a taxi driver told you, it must be true.
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May 20th, 2011 at 8:12 am 75
So why the F*ck doesn’t the provincial government do something about it?
Do you get the point this time?
_____
Lol – they are going to so something about it – they are introducing a new care card with a security chip, recent photo, and anti-forgery features. It will have to be renewed every five years for ALL Canadians.
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May 20th, 2011 at 8:26 am 76
@Patriotz & Tool Garth
I actually agree with both of you. The above statement is completely true. "Investing" in the over-inflated Vancouver real estate bubble (err.. market) is a detriment to the buyer whether the buyer is local or foreign.
Without debating the actual amount of real foreign ownership or legalities of the source of money etc…, an increasing percentage of foreign ownership is actually great for the economy on a simplistic macro level. The initial investment brings wealth into BC and Canada, however, most of the losses from the eventual downturn will be eaten by these foreign owners. Simply put the less you own when prices are falling the better off you are.
On a micro level my view is completely different. High percentages of foreign ownership (absentee owners, satellite families, etc.) and the resulting high prices that are being talked about everywhere are terrible for Greater Vancouver. It will eventually completely destroy the city as the people and businesses who provide the basic services of the city leave because they can't afford to live/work here. This exodus would leave basically a resort town with more or less "ghost" neighborhoods and transient residents as Tool Garth was alluding to. Vancouver may eventually be revived after a significant correction, but, many good people may already have moved on elsewhere.
For these reasons any support from governments beyond the municipal level simply doesn't make sense and poor Gregor is too busy planning his next bike route to even see any of these issues. Heck he may even claim the decrease in traffic was due to them and not the mass exodus of "actual" productive residents.
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May 20th, 2011 at 8:45 am 77
@Googles:
Here's where we disagree. I maintain that inflated RE prices in metro Vancouver (except perhaps in some wealthy neighbourhoods which for decades have been out of reach of the middle class anyway) are NOT the result of foreign ownership at all but of government policies which enable the purchase of RE at inflated prices and encourage speculation.
These are the ONLY factors which all RE bubble markets, everywhere, have in common.
If the government simply abandoned all policies that encourage home ownership (starting with CMHC insurance) and made some simple tax changes to discourage speculation (both offshore and domestic), I think prices would fall back to reasonable levels quickly.
And that will not happen because most people don't want it to.
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May 20th, 2011 at 9:00 am 78
@OWG:
Oh I wouldn't say our governments are behind really, they use the most up to date technology for things they really care about, like winning elections.
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May 20th, 2011 at 9:11 am 79
@patriotz: While the trolls always poke us with the HAM stick, this fact remains. Most owners and buyers of Vancouver real estate are Canadians. What they do, will dictate what the market does. For now, they may be keeping up with the Wongs. It doesn't matter.
HAM doesn't matter. It's obviously here. It's been here for decades. It was here in the 90s. It was here in 2008. It will be here 20 years from now. Unless you believe the stratospheric valuations are the new normal (and if you do I just may have some Florida waterfront to sell you), you have to believe the bubble will pop. It will not go sideways (it never does), it will not be a permanently high plateau (famous last words circa 1929 and every other bubble). When local buyers can no longer afford the prices, the prices will stop going up. It's already happening, from the outside in. Vancouver, Richmond, Burnaby, whatever, will not be left standing.
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May 20th, 2011 at 9:26 am 80
Hmmmm I wonder how many McDonalds worker own condos. More than you might think…
http://www.thestar.com/business/article/992516–m…
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May 20th, 2011 at 9:26 am 81
Mark Carney's “off the record” remarks got leaked – G&M.
…………..
I wonder where did Mingpao got their story?
Bank of Canada suggests
Not to increase interest rates
Housing
Price
Also
To
Rise
Ming Pao Daily News 2011-05-20 10:12:54
penultimate para)
Support the housing prices in Canada as a decisive factor is
continuing the historic low interest rates, enabling buyers into the market.
In early 2011, Capital Economics (Capital Economics) report predicts
once interest rates rise, the Canadian real estate market will crash, fall in property prices within 3 years up to 25%, or 35%.
10% rate hike will lead to inability to pay the mortgage, the mortgage company will lose 100 billion.
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May 20th, 2011 at 9:46 am 82
The monetary policy geniuses around the world have turned essentials like commodities and real estate into a high stakes gamble. Too bad it's the average middle class family that is caught in the middle….RTP
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May 20th, 2011 at 9:48 am 83
Where is Lavishing Lick ?
I just back from latest buying spree
Option on Squamish, maybe Lions Bay
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May 20th, 2011 at 10:28 am 84
Re: "Church torn down to make more condos"
What is the issue here? The church was sold to the developer a long time ago and it was known for at about a year that it will be demolished and a new tower will be built on it's place. Why are people protesting now?
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May 20th, 2011 at 10:28 am 85
Before emigrating in Canada, I used to see pictures of nice locations all across Canada, nice and affordable houses and recreational facilities that made me dream of a better life. I told to myself that it would be impossible to be poor and to live an work only life in a country with only 30 millions people and huge resources like no other country on the globe.
Now, 10 years later, two kids, lots of drug/gang related activities around me and higher daily prices on everything, I have a bank owned crappy life just because I bought a crappy house in Vancouver just to have a roof above us. And I'm continuously thinking what to do in order to afford my new "dram life" … maybe work 16 h a day, maybe put together my own little grow up just to make money that I need to survive.
And I'm looking with envy at the cheap and the amazing houses in Florida while dreaming to have my crappy house in Vancouver still standing when I'll be debt free …. see you everybody in 30 years. This is unfortunately what this country can offer us at this time. Maybe in another generation. And I'm still wondering who's enjoying all the good things that Canada has to offer to its citizen.
Thanks
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May 20th, 2011 at 10:42 am 86
Chris Gailus, like many Vancouverites, doen't even know when he's being an asshole.
He was updating about the truck that drove off the ferry dock. After annoying a stressed-out BC Ferries employee he goes on to state that this is bad news for ferry travellers.
Uh Chris, what about the people in truck? Are they OK? We don't know yet.
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May 20th, 2011 at 10:42 am 87
New Listings 218
Price Changes 114
Sold Listings 67
And no i'm not kidding
Have a great long weekend!!
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May 20th, 2011 at 11:08 am 88
Mr. Carney used his appearance to remind his audience of investors, economists and officials that broad forces continue to push market participants toward extreme behaviour.
“Search for yield, in our view, is back,” Mr. Carney said. As a result, valuations across markets ranging from currencies to commodities are becoming “stretched,” which is to say, prices are becoming rather dear, risking a sharp reversion to mean. That could be bad if too many people are stretching asset prices with borrowed money.
“This is an environment where leverage potentially really starts to build up,” Mr. Carney said.
From the Globe and Mail story at the top of the page (hat tip for a great link)…..note the words "sharp reversion to mean". Is anyone listening?
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May 20th, 2011 at 11:16 am 89
@ReadyToPop:
Jeez…I wonder why that's the case?!?
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May 20th, 2011 at 11:32 am 90
@paulb.: Good long weekend indeed, thanks for posting! This more than makes up for Wednesday's not so fun numbers
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May 20th, 2011 at 11:38 am 91
@ 47 – Eddie.
I like the comparisons. I've sent emails to friends showing what a $1.2 Million tear down in Richmond will buy you in the States. It's incredible what you can buy sometimes even apartment buildings for just a bit more. Someone (I'm not very good at webpages) should do something like Crack Shack or Mansion but instead show Vancouver Tear downs and what it buys in the States.
Cheers.
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May 20th, 2011 at 11:40 am 92
@paulb.: Not too shabby… what is the total inventory number? Please and thanks!
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May 20th, 2011 at 12:19 pm 93
Great criticism of te affordability measures by RBC at
http://theeconomicanalyst.com/content/why-housing…
I never realized #3 in which he points out the the measures assume a 25% down payment!
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May 20th, 2011 at 1:03 pm 94
@T Time:
"But alas, Vancouverites are weak, passive aggressive, and greedy. It is too late to complain – changes have been made that can not be altered and there is nothing that you can do now from a numbers game. The time to complain was back in the 1990s…"
ah but we were Liberals then
we're Conservatives now (or so i'm told)
YOU TUK OUR JOBZ (and ramped our prices)
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May 20th, 2011 at 1:06 pm 95
Where is Ravishing Lick the Dick
I have bad news….
DNA test early indication is I not your father ok Luke Skywalker
You have no case for estate claim
You mother sleep with past Governor of California.
Hasta la vista baby
Get in line..and next time tell your daddy not to buy birth control from K-Tel
cue the music…Beethoven
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May 20th, 2011 at 1:26 pm 96
@ onenangryslav2
I wonder if he's covering his posterior….this way he can say "I told you so".
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May 20th, 2011 at 1:27 pm 97
@Runawayscreaming:
"The locals that are doing well are the ones selling their houses and leaving. The locals that are not doing well are being turned into refugees in their own city by the flood of dirty money fleeing to Vancouver real estate from the People’s Republic of China. In that sense Vancouver is not just a Chinese city, it is a city that is very affected by corruption in China.
Many Vancouverites have a sense that they are being betrayed by their own government and that their city is being sold from underneath them to the highest bidder from the nearest communist dictatorship. That is more similar to the feeling of hopelessness a Chinese factory worker has than anything resembling what a Canadian dream was. So I think Vancouver is indeed becoming a Chinese city."
ah, you sir, have smashed me to pieces.
i should admit i was being a little cowardly anyways, i was just playing devil's advocate.
at the same time, please recall that it was i that posted this a few weeks back.
http://iff-update.gfip.org/
scream it from the rooftops, because Global certainly isn't going to.
(and save insite, while we're at it)
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May 20th, 2011 at 1:30 pm 98
@paulb.:
Nice numbers.
Get ready for "potential buyers busy doing yard work plus everyone is paying attention to the Canucks right now."
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May 20th, 2011 at 1:33 pm 99
I posted this at vreea too.
Hello Raincouver from sunny San Diego. I hope you are having good weather up there.
I moved to Vancouver from Holland 3 years ago because my wife’s family lives there and many of my friends and family also.
Planning to buy a business, house and settle.
We had approx 10million CAD in cash. After looking at all possible businesses for sale for two years, we realised that there was really no opportunity to buy smth decent with cap rates higher than 3 to 4% same as what our money was earning on a savings account (most businesses were franchises, restaurants and other retail).
We rented for 2 years thinking that the RE prices will fall to reasonable levels.
It was not so much that we could not afford it but having come by our money the hard way, we realised that there was really not value in paying 1.5 million to live in very ordinary poorly build house. Weather was not so much an issue for us are we are used to rain and we really did not have bad whether the two years we lived there. The summers were beautiful, we liked it so much.
Last year we decided to invest in the Sates and moved here on an investor E2 visa. We bought an apartment building (42 apparts for 3 million USD) with a cap rate of 6.5%. The same building in Vancouver would cost 6 to 8 million.
And since we are here, I can tell you that once you get used to the San Diego sunshine, you can hardly dream of another place.
We just bought a house four ourself ( 860 000USD) with swimming pool and ocean view, lots of oranges in the garden, they are ripe and sweet now. Unbelievable how far the money goes here compared to Vancouver. Evth is cheaper.
Vancouver is a TOTAL RIP OFF anyway you look at it. I will never regret the decision to leave.
Also, having worked for 27 years as an electro-mechanical engineer in Holland and having registered 7 patents during this period, and managed countless projects around the world, I thought I might get a part time consulting job in the industry , mainly to do smth useful and not get bored rather than to make money.
To my surprise no body recognised my credentials, I had to be registered to practice engineering there, and to do that is going back to school, pass all exams again, and once you do that you have to be coached for about 3 to 5 years by another professional engineer, almost mission impossible. I was stunned. It was the same thing for my wife , architect graduated from one of the most prestigious schools in Europe. Impossible to practice here.
Now, when you look at all the architectural junk that Vancouver is filled with, I really dont know were they get those creative architects / designers…
I am so amused checking from time to time the blogs that helped me so much understand RE craze in vancouver and feel sorry for the people waiting on the sidelines.
I wish you good luck and hope things return to sanity sooner in the rainy city.
My advise:
Don’t let RE prices dictate your life plans, move on to where the sunshine is and life oportunities await. There are very little in Vancouver.
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May 20th, 2011 at 1:36 pm 100
Another news gem from Australia, a government advisory board is calling for flat prices this decade. Of course the story somehow turns into "buy now, there's a massive housing shortage!"
The first comment is simply perfect, it's no wonder they had to shut comments down right away.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/property-prices-fl…
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May 20th, 2011 at 1:37 pm 101
I tell you!
Paturro Blidge…..if it not fixed soon you break link from China to India.
No more collisions between Mercedes and Dump Trucks
ICBC go broke.
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May 20th, 2011 at 1:41 pm 102
@Anonymouse:
Still waiting on you to provide stats for that, actually. You seem eager to think that anybody who’s made it for themselves in China is a criminal, but are completely unable to prove it.
you don't make it china for yourself
you make it in china with your party guanxi
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May 20th, 2011 at 1:41 pm 103
99
left already
Look like you short post is more like resume'
$10 Million/ You sell Tulip bulb futures?
if from Holland….only electrical tech there is solar powered sex toys. Rick buy some, give him discount.
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May 20th, 2011 at 1:45 pm 104
PaulB.
Good work.
McLosin, I hope you did not pull the trigger and blow your load on the first ugly duckling that gave you the time of day. I warned you that things were about to slow – this will continue over the coming months. Mark my words.
This ship is springing leaks all over.
xoxox
Romeo Jordan
ps. I love my new (used) car!!!
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May 20th, 2011 at 1:51 pm 105
@patriotz:
Oh I wouldn’t say our governments are behind really, they use the most up to date technology for things they really care about, like winning elections.
no kidding, especially toys.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-35_Lightning_II
so given that we've waved the white flag over Vancouver, are we going to acknowledge China's claim to the arctic? (because they made one, and were nonplussed to be 'excluded by the powers again' etc. etc.
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:11 pm 106
Nice!
http://www.vancouverobserver.com/city/2011/05/20/…
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:27 pm 107
cut the music!
Li kai you empty pant pre-sale humper, sitdown and shut up so your teenage private schooled daughter can see what a real father figure looks like!
But before i point at both your manhhod and latest condo assessment and laugh ill start off with an apology. I wasn't here earlier, but don't worry if i don't respond right away because im probably coming…your Owd Wady can tell you when!
I have a funeral this weekend an old work buddy of mine died down in florida, he was a real macho man unlike you sweat hog!
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:29 pm 108
#104,
didnt you say the same sh*t when posting at RC blog? why dont you put your $$ where your mouth is by selling the shoebox you bought last year.
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:29 pm 109
Great numerals again paulb
Figure eights in li kai's front yard? Let's see if that brings him luck.
Hit the music!
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:32 pm 110
@Googles: "For these reasons any support from governments beyond the municipal level simply doesn’t make sense"
Both the federal and provincial governments have the ability to administer targeted policies to certain areas. I disagree that capital flows are a good thing as a general rule. It depends where the flows are going and it depends on other aspects of monetary policy. Bank of Canada Governor Carney has hinted at this: we need to ask where capital is being spent because it can cause long-term fallout if inappropriately applied. Your latter comments regarding the problems of asset price bubbles — blighting other economies in the city — are spot on.
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May 20th, 2011 at 5:07 pm 111
Hey crew Stu here. Look, when the market's running behind traffic you'll know it's exhausted. I'm a bit concerned about the Canucks right now. Look kids, it's common sense, when you're against the boards you need to keep your head up. I swear Romer was the only defenseman we have who's not closet gay. Hey crew, i'm gonna drink until Sunday noon.
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May 20th, 2011 at 11:03 pm 112
#99,
yeah right! and i am bill gates with billion of dollars give away.
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May 21st, 2011 at 12:32 am 113
@Vansanity:
As much as I love to see numbers like this, yesterdays numbers are probably due to staff leaving early for the long weekend. They probably imputted all the listings and will finish off the sales on Tuesday.
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May 21st, 2011 at 2:35 am 114
At just under a million dollars, the 87-year-old, four-bedroom home was a bargain compared to houses 20 minutes away in Vancouver, the ReMax Central agent said. He was right. A week and one open house later, the property sold for $1.5-million – 50-per-cent more than the owners were asking.
Smells like the insanity before the fall!
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business…
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May 21st, 2011 at 2:36 am 115
I drove yesterday from Coronado to Del Mar and could see the gas prices in different gas stations from 3.96 a gallon to 4.39 USD.
I remember the time when I used to drive from downtown Vancouver to beyond Surrey and the gas prices at the pumps were within 2 cents range at different pump stations.
What a rip off city that Vancouver is!
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May 21st, 2011 at 2:42 am 116
Must read!
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toro…
“This is a coming crisis that nobody is talking about,” said Chris Jaglowitz, a lawyer who specializes in condo law for Gardiner Miller Arnold LLP and a member of the Condominium Managers of Ontario. “You have all of these older buildings, and someone needs to pay for long-neglected repairs. And many people won’t be able to cover their share.”
“You can imagine what it is like to receive news like that,” says Roza Zarik, who has lived in the building for 12 years and now pays about $900 a month in maintenance fees for her three-bedroom unit. “I understand the work needs to be done, I really do. If I thought I could sell and get what this place is actually worth, I would do it in a second, but I don’t even think a bank would let someone buy here right now.”
This story comes from toronto!
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May 21st, 2011 at 2:44 am 117
@ReadyToPop:
"The monetary policy geniuses around the world have turned essentials like commodities and real estate into a high stakes gamble. Too bad it’s the average middle class family that is caught in the middle….RTP"
I'm surprised this point is not emphasized . In my opinion these assholes are immoral, and should be prosecuted for malpractice.
Making loans at less than inflation is like giving free booze to drunks, and then Carney tells the drunks not to drink too much.
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May 21st, 2011 at 4:12 am 118
Speculation not limited to Vancouver:
Speculators, foreign investors, betting on Toronto condo market
http://www.financialpost.com/personal-finance/mor…
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May 21st, 2011 at 4:37 am 119
Energy costs and Chinese inflation brings jobs back to Canada
http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/Business/123984946…
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May 21st, 2011 at 4:56 am 120
@Jack:
Closing the FP article:
That of course is the textbook definition of a bubble, but the writer either didn't know or didn't want to say it. No "b" word in this article.
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May 21st, 2011 at 5:35 am 121
As commodities correct, Canadian and Australian home prices will follow.
http://i51.tinypic.com/54l5l.jpg
Other than real estate this past decade, Canadian industry has been rather limited to the extraction and exportation of commodities.
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May 21st, 2011 at 5:54 am 122
@real_professional: The only sensible move is to get of there one way or another. If selling can't work, than declare bankruptcy and leave it to the lender. Why continue the torture?
“We have been paying our money so you do have to wonder about where it all has gone over the years,” said six-year resident Anne Aungpelatt. “It’s so very sad that we need to live through this stress, to not know when the bills will stop coming.”
Don't they understand anything about an aging building? The bills only get bigger until you have to tear it down.
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May 21st, 2011 at 6:29 am 123
@Patiently Waiting:
There's an easy and simply way to have a place to life for a predictable monthly cost without stress and bills.
It's called RENTING.
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May 21st, 2011 at 6:39 am 124
@real_professional:
"Smells like the insanity before the fall!"
I hope you are right. But remember that you could have said this at any time in the last ten years.
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May 21st, 2011 at 8:16 am 125
@WTF?:
Well I guess I "could", but I actually would have said it from mid 2005-April 2008 and from Jan 2009 to today, a period of 5 years in total.
Didn't think price declines were likely before 2005. And remember, prices were falling rapidly during that gap.
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May 21st, 2011 at 8:33 am 126
@wtf
True, however, housing prices moved upwards from the 1999/2000 lows… Yet, the market was by most measures cheap between 99 and 2001. Around 2003 it seemed to be on Rich side of nomal… After that, is when the zoo started and it has been disgustingly expensive since 2006.
I don't expect it to become cheap here relative to the rest of canada but at the point where around 50% of median family income goes into housing. Wow i just ran the numbers that works out to around 400,000 for a bungalow in vancouver assuming around 80k pretax income. Various assumptions that i wont bother listing. That seems too cheap but maybe that is reasonable and we are so used to insanity… Maybe we are just the thoughts of a higher being? Who knows? Definitely not a realtor
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May 21st, 2011 at 11:03 am 127
Canucks are about to win the Stanley cup and you people here are still bitching about real estate. Funny thing is that many of you have been predicting a crash since who knows how long. And it's more than a year after the olympics. How much longer do you cry babies have to wait for the crash? Some of you might not live to see that day come. Crisis this, crash that, blah.
This site sounds like a bunch of bears living in a rental suite. If some of you happen to turn on the TV, you see how many Canuck fans now can afford to fly over to San Jose? The economy is doing just fine.
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May 21st, 2011 at 11:29 am 128
@ReadyToPop:
>>>Many of the large centres down the west coast are down around 30% from peak, which is where I believe Vancouver is headed…..RTP<<<
40% actually, and Vancouver will fall at least that much, maybe more.
http://www.deptofnumbers.com/asking-prices/
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May 21st, 2011 at 12:08 pm 129
Richmond, yes where are all jet setting rich tycoons from all over the world come to invest and live……
9 months of inventory
Just sayin
Just
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May 21st, 2011 at 12:36 pm 130
Andrew Hasman appears to be a reasonable guy. 70-80% of SFH sales in the past 18 months going to Mainland Chinese investors? I think this paints the real picture of Vancouver real estate and not Lancor's figures.
From the Vancouver Observer artcle posted earlier.
"Overseas buyers from Mainland China have been the driving force behind the price rise, Hasman said. "That's what's driving the market, really — of single family homes that have sold in the last 18 months, I would say, they're conservatively 70 per cent, probably 80 per cent of the buyers," he said.
He said that in some cases, the houses are placed back on the market within weeks, at a 10 per cent higher price, or simply remain empty."
Anthea Poon is a local-born agent who speaks Cantonese and some Mandarin as well as English and French. She said her skills have helped significantly in serving the Chinese clients, who make up half of her clientele.
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May 21st, 2011 at 12:44 pm 131
@Keeping an eye on the pimps:
What little is selling in Richmond is routinely going for a 5-15% haircut.
To the people who were bidding up prices there in February – SUCKERS!
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May 21st, 2011 at 5:59 pm 132
Housing Declines Again
Home values in the United States posted their largest quarterly decline since the first quarter of 2009, falling 2.6 percent as the temporary stimulus of the home buyer tax credits wore off, according to Zillow’s fourth quarter Real Estate Market Reports. See region-specific data below. Click column headers to sort.
Many of the large centres down the west coast are down around 30% from peak, which is where I believe Vancouver is headed…..RTP
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May 21st, 2011 at 10:19 pm 133
@ay:
Let wait and See men. it seems you guys still have the faith like those white-god worshipers who have waiting the 2nd coming of Jesus.
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May 22nd, 2011 at 1:41 am 134
I just saw a flying triangle with eight yellow lights! ufo? anyone else seen it???
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May 22nd, 2011 at 2:10 am 135
@Anonymous:
"I just saw a flying triangle with eight yellow lights! ufo? anyone else seen it???:
Did it have a Remax/CKNW logo on it?
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May 22nd, 2011 at 2:33 am 136
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business…
People are screaming for Greece to DEFAULT already.
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May 22nd, 2011 at 3:00 am 137
@Anonymous: I suspect the 25 year 25% down is to keep the measure comparable across the decades. In the old days, well, that was the only game around, right? The 25 year amortization does balance out the down payment a bit for monthly cost. According to CAAMP, the average (for what that's worth) buyer in CA puts down 30%.
In all this discussion about these numbers being realistic for any given existing family who bought long ago, well it's just a measure of the health of the real buyer pool. Not the HAM pool, not the grow-op pool, the real one.
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May 22nd, 2011 at 3:19 am 138
@Patiently Waiting: “there aren’t any firm figures” = bullshit?
I have a more meta question. There aren't any firm figures . . . why not?
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May 22nd, 2011 at 4:03 am 139
Lavishing Lick
Thank you velly much for doing donuts on front lawn in figure 8 fashion
Cam Good had 10 helicopters flying overhead full of HAMster form China
Saw the Big 8s and all parachuted in with offers over list.
It been 7 hours and they still bidding.
I give you cut…what is fair ?
Answer by end of 2nd period…..no not yours,,the hockey game dumb round eyes
LKS
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May 22nd, 2011 at 4:32 am 140
Cut the music!
Li kai you unsexy beast, sit down, shut up and listen to how i deal with real estate bulls.
I believe in a five finger approach to shutting down you and your kind:
1) education on asset valuation
2) examination of historical trends
3) comparisons to other markets and asset classes
4) reviewing future likelihood of economic events and policy changes
5) PUNCHING
But for you i'll skip steps 1 through 4!
Hit the music!
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May 22nd, 2011 at 4:33 am 141
Haha rick in case you dont show i got you covered!
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May 22nd, 2011 at 4:47 am 142
Time running Lavishing Lick
tick tock tick tock
50 years and still not reach puberty …can't be jacking off to
Raffi and Fred Penner music.
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May 22nd, 2011 at 5:35 am 143
Cut the music!
@real_professional nice try but you sounded more like Dwight Shrute and less like 1980s wrestling superstar. And you didn't mention his old lady.
@li kai, .. Shut up and sit down so, so your old lady can see what a real master debater sounds like!
To start off, I'm happy for all your HAMster friends… And not the ones crammed into your rear entrance rental suite. But what you got to remember is that all this foreign injection of capital isn't going to do anything but make the golden dragon won ton house a little more crowded.
As for the other foreign injection i specialize in, your Owd Wady is due for some economic stimulus from her Wavishing Wick. Remember tenth one free!
hit the music!
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May 22nd, 2011 at 6:00 am 144
Rick the Dick…
Get out of green man suit.
We can all see your camels foot through spandex.
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May 22nd, 2011 at 6:09 am 145
Rick McDick….you not listen…this is why you no get any and so cranky when winding up gramophone
When you where your pink speedo, I told you how to compensate for camel foot using cantelope.
You supposed to stuffing in F-R-O-N-T of speedo..not back.
Everyone laugh so hard call 9 -11 except your West End buddies
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May 22nd, 2011 at 6:19 am 146
Cut the music!
@ li kai
Stuffing in the front instead of the back? Thanks for letting me know how your old lady takes it, but thats for me to decide and for you to shut up and press the record button.
And rember this time you're no steven Spielberg… Dont try any weird camera angles and lines from ET. No shaking either, i know you live in fear thinking your renters might get ticked off at the sound of the jack hammer roaring in your master bedroon and move out… But you can still afford Your mortgage without them can't you… Oh wait, No you cant.
Hit the music!
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May 22nd, 2011 at 6:26 am 147
Cut the cheese
rick..
Copyright infingement you should pursue
You "40 year old virgin " 20 years ago
Now add 20 more years.
Get out of basement suite…you miss Expo 86…Madonna,…. Canucks loss in 94' Stanley Cup….all JAWS movies..Anna Nicole Smith and…Calif Gov. having 3 some with you mom and sister
Grate the cheese
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May 22nd, 2011 at 8:18 am 148
@Best place on meth: Meth, in my neighbourhood a 40% haircut would take us down to the 2008/2009 trough at best, so I'm hoping for a little more…
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May 22nd, 2011 at 8:59 am 149
No Haircuts,
I just drop more lose change into market.
Pump it like Rick to his sheep
Why Scotsman have kilts?
Sheep can hear zippers
baaaa baaaa bwahahahahha
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May 22nd, 2011 at 9:23 am 150
Get a room, you two…..
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May 22nd, 2011 at 11:23 am 151
Is it time to have a poll on who to ban here? I find some of the joke posts funny, but when they're the majority of comments they get BORING!
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May 22nd, 2011 at 11:27 am 152
Went to a family wedding this weekend. American relatives were attending, and as usual as per social conversations in Vancouver, the topic quickly became real estate. The Vancouverites were jumping up and down, telling my American relatives that "Vancouver is different, it won't crash here, we have Chinese investors, we have mountains." Despite the American relatives pointing out the ridiculousness of these arguments, there was no convincing the Vancouverites that it's a bubble, and it will crash here too, just like it has in their home country. Finally, the Americans realized there was no convincing these delusional, irrational people, finally one just turned away, and remarked under his breath "Well, sure sounds like a bubble to me."
I think the Americans would know, they've seen this hype before (and are now buying properties in Florida for half price). They just shake their heads sadly and sigh "Poor Canadians, they will learn."
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May 22nd, 2011 at 12:01 pm 153
if the USA dont raise debt limit by July, they would be in default trouble like the Greek. Shouldn't your American relatives worry about them first?
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May 22nd, 2011 at 12:03 pm 154
yeah, let do that, ban the stupid naysayers.
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May 22nd, 2011 at 12:05 pm 155
no wonder you are pricedoutforever!
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May 22nd, 2011 at 12:15 pm 156
@Tim:
I dunno Tim, there's absolutely nothing happening in the real estate market right now so I'm inclined to let Rick and Ka-Ching have at it for a while.
The down arrow will take care of business if enough readers disagree.
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May 22nd, 2011 at 3:21 pm 157
"If I thought I could sell and get what this place is actually worth, I would do it in a second"
Poor deluded speculator. What it sells for is what it's worth.
Are we going to see people crying that the banks promised they wouldn't sell foreclosures for less than market value, like they did in Arizona? Anyone have a link to that hilarious video clip?
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May 22nd, 2011 at 4:34 pm 158
See comment below with Levy's remarks. Don't know where Levy got his stats from. If it was true that rich foreigners are the only ones buying, then we would not have the following:
1) feds afraid of increasing the rates and causing a housing collapse.
2) big banks making loads of cash from mortgages written with the blessings from CHMC as a guarantor. in other words, there is a sustantial amount of people out there who require loans to purchase their house. hence, the new rule changes.
3) changes of CHMC rules to protect the locals from being in sustantial debt. Why change the rules if only rich foreigners are buying? They don't need CHMC because they pay cash only.
The bottom line is that HAM probably only represents a small segment of the housing purchases. When a HAM investor purchases an overpriced mutt house in the west end for $3 million, I expect that my mutt house on the east side would increase in value. Doesn't necessarily mean I will be able to sell it though. It's a trickle down effect with prices.
My guess is that government policies is what's fueling this market. You can't keep rates low forever. And even if you do, a high percentage of people are up to their heads with debt. Like all cycles, the bubble has to burst. Vancouver won't be immune to this.
Phil Says:
May 20th, 2011 at 9:15 am
I just heard the following on CKNW: RBC Senior Econominist discussing how Vancouver housing costs 72% of income. Then Michael Levy comes on and says it is irrelevant as Vancouver residents are not buying, it is rich wealthy foreigners. Celebrating the fact that we are selling our city to the highest foreign bidder. Levy then said, if Vancouver born children want to buy in the area, they will need to buy in Mission and commute.
Do the powers that be really want to drive all local born residents out of this city and replace them with Chinese? How does this benefit anyone?
Current score: 44 +1Thumbs down!
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May 23rd, 2011 at 1:44 am 159
@Curiosity:
Levy is a pimping liar, or a buffoon, a fool, an idiot, an imbecile, a charlatan, a quack, and an ugly mutt to boot.
Mortgage debt has surpassed 1 trillion, and household income to debt to income is in the range of 149%.
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May 23rd, 2011 at 2:33 am 160
Michael Levy says whatever's popular to keep his face out there. He's full of shit and his predictions are rarely right. He's a monkey they roll out there in times of market gloom to pump his BS then flog his gold business. Just another friend of the NW crowd who will do anything to tilt real estate and the Liberal government in a positive light.
It's disgusting how people are so sucked into this bullshit but who said the masses are bright people to begin with ?
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May 23rd, 2011 at 2:41 am 161
What the real estate ho's should be doing is splitting real estate into two camps and price quotes. Those over and those under $1 million.
Does the media ever report that sales and prices in Mercedes and Jags are going thru the roof because of HAM so you poor saps will have to pay more for your Ford Escort or get out the walking shoes ? Two completely different markets they want to lump in to keep ReMax and LePage a happy advertiser.
Believe me, I know someone who worked for one of the community newspapers and a few years ago an article was written about one of the larger car dealerships who had clearly screwed this guy on his car deal and refused to deal with him.
The head car company dude phoned up and freaked at the top of his lungs he would pull all his advertising which was a major cash cow for this smaller paper. Guess who won ? Case closed. Advertisers call the shots and will go to all lengths no matter how bad they screwed Joe Average on a car. Despicable.
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May 23rd, 2011 at 2:42 am 162
@Keeping An Eye On The Pimps:
Agreed, the latest article states there where 3779 sales to these wealthy foreigners in 2010! Wow, a lot right? With the amount the media keeps pumping the wealthy foreigner myth you'd think the market has been taken over. In reality, there were 74640 sales in 2010 so these investors driving the market account for a mere 5%. Clearly local buyers (95% of sales) are still in control of the market, however it would appear they are being controlled by fear if being priced out forever with this ridiculous propaganda.
Let's take inventory:
Buy before HST
Buy before mortgage rules change (1)
Buy before rates rise
Buy before mortgage rules change (2)
Buy before the only place not taken over by foreigners is Mission
I wonder what's next? My hope is prices start to slide and we are back to the "there's never been a better time to buy" mantra.
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May 23rd, 2011 at 2:55 am 163
@Curiosity: My sense (not scientific, just based on lurking on various boards and staring at a lot of google translated kanji) is that the mainlanders are no longer paying cash. When they first arrived, they never dreamed a Canadian bank would loan them money. So they were all cash, and that got the myth started. Now that they've figured out this stunning fact about Canadian banking, they are buying 7-8 homes on financing rather than 2 outright. But the myth lives on.
Like I said, just stringing anecdotes together.
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May 23rd, 2011 at 3:33 am 164
@AG Sage:
A realtor friend confirms this quote: "they can't believe how easy it is to get financing in Canada". I guess they heard that myth about having the strictest lending standards in the world and thought they had to bring cash. Now they've got it figured out. He also said they are bidding on up to a dozen properties at a time on the condition of financing. That way once they've put in all of the offers they might only be approved for 2 or 3 but they can sort out which 2 or 3 they really want and inform the other 10 that they were rejected on financing and not be held to their offer. It certainly makes the impression that the frenzy is in full force since they are bidding for so many properties at once. I'm sure it's all quite sustainable though
Does anyone know the restrictions on foreign ownership and CMHC insurance? I know financing for a Canadian is quite difficult with a US bank so one would hope that since we are more prudent the same rules would apply to foreigners and Canadian banks.
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May 23rd, 2011 at 6:07 am 165
I told you bafoons that the market would start to slow. And it has.
Next – it will slow more, and MOI will continue to rise. It will.
Then rates will tick up and prices will slip. And then we could be in for a hell of a ride – down.
McLosin, buckle up in your Ford Esprit, this could get bumpy.
xoxox
Romeo Jordan
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May 23rd, 2011 at 7:19 am 166
#166,
then put your money where your mouth is; put your shoe box in the market and buy back a few years later! talking is cheap!
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May 23rd, 2011 at 9:12 am 167
@Anonymous:
CMHC insurance is not available to offshore buyers, the most obvious reason being there's no effective way to go after them upon default.
Note I said "offshore". A resident buyer may be a foreign citizen, and an offshore buyer may be a Canadian citizen.
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May 23rd, 2011 at 10:37 am 168
Interesting note, my friend owns a loft on Seymour St and got his 2011 property tax notice. While I don't put any faith in assessed value it is showing flat over 3 years.
2009 $296,000
2010 $293,000
2011 $ 300,000
That certainly goes against what we have been reading in about the averages.
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May 23rd, 2011 at 11:13 am 169
@McLovin:
McLovin
Your anecdote, is in sync with reality, most properties in Van are at 2009 levels are slightly below.
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May 23rd, 2011 at 11:40 am 170
@AG Sage:
I believe you are looking a lot of google translated hanzi, unless you’ve been reading Japanese sites.(Kanji is the Japanese pronunciation, hanzi is the Mandarin pronunciation.)
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May 23rd, 2011 at 11:41 am 171
@McLovin: The city isn't particularly concerned with how much your house is actually worth. You'll pay the same in taxes. It's in their interest to keep prices rising slightly, so they can keep rates the same while raising more money without an actual rate increase.
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May 23rd, 2011 at 11:58 am 172
After ten plus years of a perfectly synchronized Tango between what have become our two vital industries (commodities & RE),
http://i54.tinypic.com/23macm1.jpg
I wonder what happens when the lead partner abruptly leaves the dance floor?
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May 23rd, 2011 at 12:25 pm 173
@patriotz: Indication that "foreign" ownership restrictions will have marginal effect.
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May 23rd, 2011 at 1:25 pm 174
@ah
Awesome chart!
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May 23rd, 2011 at 1:32 pm 175
“It remains a heavy weight on the banking system,” said Mark Zandi, the chief economist of Moody’s Analytics. “Housing prices are falling, and they are going to fall some more.”
As Lenders Hold Homes in Foreclosure, Sales Are Hurt
I guess it'll never happen here…..RTP
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May 23rd, 2011 at 2:17 pm 176
@jesse:
to every multi-generational canadian and especially to first nations they are all foreign, but to our government they are better than the locals – the newcomers can still be bled.
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May 23rd, 2011 at 4:30 pm 177
i like Coastal's comment below:
"Does the media ever report that sales and prices in Mercedes and Jags are going thru the roof because of HAM so you poor saps will have to pay more for your Ford Escort or get out the walking shoes ? Two completely different markets they want to lump in to keep ReMax and LePage a happy advertiser."
If so much HAM was out there, you would expect a big boost in not only real estate but also north american stocks, commercial real estate, business investments/mergers/acquisitions, etc. You would also expect to hear about big boosts in consumption such as expensive car purchases, fine dining, furniture shopping etc. But you don't hear much about these topics in the news and alot of fine dining places and furniture shops are closing down as we speak.
Sounds like the real estate professionals probably realize the market is slowing down. They are hoping the HAM theory will bring life back in to an already faltering real estate market. Perhaps, this is their one last ditch effort in attempt to save the market from the bears.
News reporting is suppose to be objective and supported with factual evidence. When you report the HAM theory without much support, you're also deceiving the public who rely on your information to make their decision. I guess Remax and LePage pays huge amount of money for advertising. So the news reporters are quite aware as to who pays their salaries. The phrase "Buyer Beware" holds true forever.
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May 23rd, 2011 at 7:52 pm 178
@Devore:
The city doesn't do property assessments, the BC Assessment Authority does. They have a statutory mandate to target market value for assessments. Property owners have the right to appeal, so there is also a practical reason to get it right, as the appeals cost them money.
Anyone who was a homeowner during previous downturns can tell you that when prices go down assessments go down too.
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May 23rd, 2011 at 9:17 pm 179
@patriotz:
when he mentions the city wanting to avoid a rate increase, i think he means so as to not actually increase the % of property tax, just the amount taken in by inflating the nominal price valuation.
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