Friday Free-for-all

its Friday! Time for our regular end of the week open topic discussion thread.

TD predicts house price drops across Canada
BNN interview on the TD report
BC Population growth keeps dropping
Is renting every better than buying?
Metro Vancouver fees to increase 44% over next 5 years
Benjamin Tal: Offshore buyers underestimated
Councilors: Landlords should be in it for capital appreciation
Two new high-rises planned for City Centre
Canadians cutting personal debt growth
Another 20% drop for US housing?
American consumers improve their debt rating

So what are you seeing out there? Post your news links, thoughts and anectdotes here and have an excellent weekend!

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space889
Guest
space889

20 homes in Vancouver for the average $800K price
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/average+home

N
Guest
N

@space889:

Odd that the list didn't include any condos, just east side tear downs.

YLTN @ Work
Guest
YLTN @ Work

This is so typical of getting caught up in the "must buy a house craze":

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/nvn/apa/2484308

Rent the upper two floors of this home while the owner lives in the basement. Seriously, you obviously cannot afford a home an will be destitute if rates go up and you can't find a renter, besides, who wants to live in a place with their landlord downstairs, talk about zero privacy!

FiveNeatGuys
Guest
FiveNeatGuys

@YLTN @ Work: Many years ago I rented a house with a couple of roommates and the owners lived in the basement suite with their toddler. Needless to say there was tension, we would occasionally drink and party which would keep them awake and their kid would wake us up early.

They ended up getting a divorce and the mom and kid moved out leaving the husband there- they were so strapped for cash they tried to hold our damage deposit based on wear and tear to the floors. We ended up taking it to arbitration and getting the damage deposit back, but I saw first hand the sad damage that getting in over your head can lead some families to.

gordholio
Member

space889: "20 PUTRID Homes for the Average $800K Price". Seriously, whether intentional or not, this is a rather damning pictorial, isn't it? "You too can be a pauper for the rest of your years by throwing every spare cent you'll ever have into this rotting hellhole in the middle of dumpsville! Enjoy Vancouver summer downpours while building the machinery necessary to prop up the second story! Bathe in the glow of Vancouver evenings while sitting on your front lawn, shotgun at the ready to thwart would-be looters! Buy now or be priced out FOREVER!!!"

YLTN: "Buy this horrendous deathtrap NOW for a mere million dollars! Live in the subterranean basement suite while leasing the top two floors to a lowly renter! Earplugs optional! Opportunity awaits! Won't last long! Buy now or be priced out FOREVER!!" (Cue Satanic cackle.)

Devore
Member
Devore
"The main source of profitability in the real estate market," said Coun. Guy Heywood, "is the line not shown in your pro forma, which is capital appreciation rather than income. This kind of performance is not untypical of real estate companies who embarked on a buy-and-hold strategy." Oh wow. So eat shitty returns for a couple of decades, then flip to another operator or for redevelopment? No wonder hardly anyone is building purpose-built rentals, when costs are so high and market rents so low, even when obviously they can be set at any number. Much more profitable to sell condos. But sad to see someone trying to build a business providing a needed service, apparently unable to make the numbers work. On another note, I see the former Pallisades hotel is well under way to becoming rentals. The prices floated… Read more »
Patiently Waiting
Member
Patiently Waiting

@space889: If you don't have at least two 8s in the price of your home, you are racist.

patriotz
Member

@Devore:

“The main source of profitability in the real estate market,” said Coun. Guy Heywood, “is the line not shown in your pro forma, which is capital appreciation rather than income."

This is completely false. The only source of profitability in any capital market is income. Capital gains come to the seller at the expense of the buyer, so the net to the whole market is zero.

Devore
Member
Devore

@patriotz: The effect is that ultimately the capital appreciation cannot be sustained, and asset prices crash back in line with fundamentals, with someone (the greatest fools) holding the bag and absorbing those losses.

space889
Guest
space889

@YLTN @ Work: uhm lots of people live with their landlord upstairs. Personally I would prefer to be above my lord than under him/her. 🙂

Also from watching Income Properties on HGTV, the issue of noise separation is mentioned a lot and the cost of installion doesn't seem to be that high or hard.

space889
Guest
space889

@N: I think it's implied that you can still get a house in Vancouver for $800K. I don't know all the streets the houses are located on but about half of them looks livable from the pictures.

Patiently Waiting
Member
Patiently Waiting

@space889: A landlord who can't afford to live in the top floor, didn't put it in sound installation. Its an old house too, with a basement intended for potatoes not people.

I'd live above the landlord too, and I'd fight like hell any attempt to evict me due to noise. Of course, he'd tried find another official reason, but I bet he'll attempt evictions against anyone who dares walk across the creaky floors at night.

space889
Guest
space889

@Devore: Is this a project where there is mixed market rental units and condos? Are the rental units in a separate strata or same strata? I'm assuming there are more than 27 units in the project, otherwise the city fees stated would be over $160K per unit! That's pretty steep.

Also, why are the units being required to hook up to the city's heating utility? How is that any more efficient than central heating in the building or electric baseboard heating in each unit??

bubba
Guest
bubba

Yessir..

Go retro…

Looks like the gang bangers are back in business

http://www.richmond-news.com/survived+Richmond+sh

http://www.bclocalnews.com/richmond_southdelta/ri

Devore
Member
Devore
@space889: I don't know the details of the project, and there is probably lots of behind the scenes politics. The major point of contention seems to be the hook up to the specified utility, the costs of which seem excessive. Maybe Dave will come out of the woodwork and enlighten us. And the developer is right, they will not be able to pass those costs onto renters, although they would be able to pass them onto strata unit buyers (because it always goes up). As a renter, you flip the switch and light comes on, turn on the tap and hot water comes out, click the thermostat and it gets warmer. You don't care what the utility costs are. SOME people will pay a LITTLE bit more for, say, "green" energy, but in general you can't just go and charge… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

@Patiently Waiting: "but I bet he’ll attempt evictions against anyone who dares walk across the creaky floors at night."

Not in my experience. I've lived in houses with the owner in another suite before and unless they're brand new to it the usually just shut up and put up with it.

You can't rent out part of your house and not expect to hear the other people. Most of them realize that they're lucky to have a somewhat decent tenant anyways.

Beggars can't be choosers and if you can't afford your housing costs without a tenant you have to put up with the noise, extra maintenance cost, complaints from neighbors over parking, etc.

Grin and bear it 😀

Patiently Waiting
Member
Patiently Waiting

New Westminster shuts down Third World Housing Exhibit

http://www.bclocalnews.com/greater_vancouver/neww

victoria
Member
victoria
YLTN @ Work
Guest
YLTN @ Work
I'm suprised that councillor Guy doesn't get how purpose built rentals work financially, the guy has the education: http://www.guyheywood.ca/about-me.html He must be caught up with speculation fever. As for the whole "mortgage helper" suite, does this happen much in other cities or is it's dominance here a Vancouver specialty (and an indication that prices are just too high if you can only afford to buy with a tenant). I lived under a landlord once and have to say unless it is the only way you can make things work financially, keep away. You can sound insulate all you want but that amateur landlord will always be watching for you, waiting for you to damage their precious investment. IMO, which I'm sure many disagree, if you need to have a tenant to buy a house, go buy an apartment for less… Read more »
900kCrackHouse
Guest
900kCrackHouse

Ladies and gentleman. The reason why the western world is completely screwed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by

Look at Ireland, they might as well just give up now! Whats the point of even trying to pay back their debt.

space889
Guest
space889

@Devore: Yes, that's right, heating and water are generally included while gas or electricity is extra. Though I do know buildings that turn off heat until it's like Nov or it gets really cold.

I find the fact that they are required to hook up to a specific heating utility extremely odd and I bet you are right, lots of behind the scene politics and someone is definitely planning on getting rich off it.

941.3kCrackHouse
Guest
941.3kCrackHouse

Why don't they just start building new buildings using 8's for floor numbers. 8,18,28,38,48,58,68

oh Wait, we got to skip floor 48… that has a 4. And 5 and 6 and 7 aren't that lucky either. 7 might be a little ghostly. Brings back memories of nearby hospices.

Ok, lets try

8,88,888,8888,88888,8888888,888888888…..

That'll negate the effect of any hospices being built next door.

space889
Guest
space889

@YLTN @ Work: I think it's more of a Canada thing as there seem to be a lot of basement suite in Toronto as well, at least based on watching Income Properties and other similar shows. However in Income Properties case, a lot of the times the basement rental income would cover like 50% to 75%+ to occassionally 100% of those people's mortgage payments!!! I seriously doubt something like that is feasible in Vancouver as a rule of thumb.

As for as I know, US it's more of whole house rental or rooming housing type of arrangement. Very few people would consider the idea of renting out basement or live in one. But I'm sure places like New York would be different from most of US.

alx
Member
alx
Got a friend who's getting married. She and her soon-to-be husband were renting in east Van before and they talked about how rent was reasonable and houses were too costly to buy. But now that they are getting married, suddenly "buying a house" is a given. He said he prefers a house over a condo because for the extra he pays, he can get a tenant that helps with 1/3 of the mortgage. He hopes the interest rate doesn't go up too soon. He wants to buy in east Van. It's sad and telling of the times and city we live in. No one questions whether why we should already count on being a landlord by buying a house. Why should the interest rate stay low for a long time? Why should crappy houses cost $1 million? Why did this… Read more »
space889
Guest
space889

@Patiently Waiting: Holy shit!!! That's just wow…I'm speechless after reading that….I feel really sad for the tenants who had lived there if they had no other choice. Seriously though I think we need probably stiffer punishment for people like this besides just warnings and compliances. This guy obviously has no regard for people's safety.

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