Friday Free-for-all

its Friday! Time for our regular end of the week open topic discussion thread.

TD predicts house price drops across Canada
BNN interview on the TD report
BC Population growth keeps dropping
Is renting every better than buying?
Metro Vancouver fees to increase 44% over next 5 years
Benjamin Tal: Offshore buyers underestimated
Councilors: Landlords should be in it for capital appreciation
Two new high-rises planned for City Centre
Canadians cutting personal debt growth
Another 20% drop for US housing?
American consumers improve their debt rating

So what are you seeing out there? Post your news links, thoughts and anectdotes here and have an excellent weekend!

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Guest
space889
4 years 6 months ago

20 homes in Vancouver for the average $800K price
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/average+home

Guest
N
4 years 6 months ago

@space889:

Odd that the list didn't include any condos, just east side tear downs.

Guest
YLTN @ Work
4 years 6 months ago

This is so typical of getting caught up in the "must buy a house craze":

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/nvn/apa/2484308

Rent the upper two floors of this home while the owner lives in the basement. Seriously, you obviously cannot afford a home an will be destitute if rates go up and you can't find a renter, besides, who wants to live in a place with their landlord downstairs, talk about zero privacy!

Guest
FiveNeatGuys
4 years 6 months ago

@YLTN @ Work: Many years ago I rented a house with a couple of roommates and the owners lived in the basement suite with their toddler. Needless to say there was tension, we would occasionally drink and party which would keep them awake and their kid would wake us up early. They ended up getting a divorce and the mom and kid moved out leaving the husband there- they were so strapped for cash they tried to hold our damage deposit based on wear and tear to the floors. We ended up taking it to arbitration and getting the damage… Read more »

Member
4 years 6 months ago

space889: "20 PUTRID Homes for the Average $800K Price". Seriously, whether intentional or not, this is a rather damning pictorial, isn't it? "You too can be a pauper for the rest of your years by throwing every spare cent you'll ever have into this rotting hellhole in the middle of dumpsville! Enjoy Vancouver summer downpours while building the machinery necessary to prop up the second story! Bathe in the glow of Vancouver evenings while sitting on your front lawn, shotgun at the ready to thwart would-be looters! Buy now or be priced out FOREVER!!!" YLTN: "Buy this horrendous deathtrap NOW… Read more »

Member
Devore
4 years 6 months ago

"The main source of profitability in the real estate market," said Coun. Guy Heywood, "is the line not shown in your pro forma, which is capital appreciation rather than income. This kind of performance is not untypical of real estate companies who embarked on a buy-and-hold strategy." Oh wow. So eat shitty returns for a couple of decades, then flip to another operator or for redevelopment? No wonder hardly anyone is building purpose-built rentals, when costs are so high and market rents so low, even when obviously they can be set at any number. Much more profitable to sell condos.… Read more »

Member
Patiently Waiting
4 years 6 months ago

@space889: If you don't have at least two 8s in the price of your home, you are racist.

patriotz
Member
4 years 6 months ago

@Devore:

“The main source of profitability in the real estate market,” said Coun. Guy Heywood, “is the line not shown in your pro forma, which is capital appreciation rather than income."

This is completely false. The only source of profitability in any capital market is income. Capital gains come to the seller at the expense of the buyer, so the net to the whole market is zero.

Member
Devore
4 years 6 months ago

@patriotz: The effect is that ultimately the capital appreciation cannot be sustained, and asset prices crash back in line with fundamentals, with someone (the greatest fools) holding the bag and absorbing those losses.

Guest
space889
4 years 6 months ago

@YLTN @ Work: uhm lots of people live with their landlord upstairs. Personally I would prefer to be above my lord than under him/her. :)

Also from watching Income Properties on HGTV, the issue of noise separation is mentioned a lot and the cost of installion doesn't seem to be that high or hard.

Guest
space889
4 years 6 months ago

@N: I think it's implied that you can still get a house in Vancouver for $800K. I don't know all the streets the houses are located on but about half of them looks livable from the pictures.

Member
Patiently Waiting
4 years 6 months ago

@space889: A landlord who can't afford to live in the top floor, didn't put it in sound installation. Its an old house too, with a basement intended for potatoes not people.

I'd live above the landlord too, and I'd fight like hell any attempt to evict me due to noise. Of course, he'd tried find another official reason, but I bet he'll attempt evictions against anyone who dares walk across the creaky floors at night.

Guest
space889
4 years 6 months ago

@Devore: Is this a project where there is mixed market rental units and condos? Are the rental units in a separate strata or same strata? I'm assuming there are more than 27 units in the project, otherwise the city fees stated would be over $160K per unit! That's pretty steep.

Also, why are the units being required to hook up to the city's heating utility? How is that any more efficient than central heating in the building or electric baseboard heating in each unit??

Guest
bubba
4 years 6 months ago

Yessir..

Go retro…

Looks like the gang bangers are back in business

http://www.richmond-news.com/survived+Richmond+sh

http://www.bclocalnews.com/richmond_southdelta/ri

Member
Devore
4 years 6 months ago

@space889: I don't know the details of the project, and there is probably lots of behind the scenes politics. The major point of contention seems to be the hook up to the specified utility, the costs of which seem excessive. Maybe Dave will come out of the woodwork and enlighten us. And the developer is right, they will not be able to pass those costs onto renters, although they would be able to pass them onto strata unit buyers (because it always goes up). As a renter, you flip the switch and light comes on, turn on the tap and… Read more »

Guest
Anonymous
4 years 6 months ago

@Patiently Waiting: "but I bet he’ll attempt evictions against anyone who dares walk across the creaky floors at night." Not in my experience. I've lived in houses with the owner in another suite before and unless they're brand new to it the usually just shut up and put up with it. You can't rent out part of your house and not expect to hear the other people. Most of them realize that they're lucky to have a somewhat decent tenant anyways. Beggars can't be choosers and if you can't afford your housing costs without a tenant you have to put… Read more »

Member
Patiently Waiting
4 years 6 months ago

New Westminster shuts down Third World Housing Exhibit

http://www.bclocalnews.com/greater_vancouver/neww

Member
victoria
4 years 6 months ago
Guest
YLTN @ Work
4 years 6 months ago

I'm suprised that councillor Guy doesn't get how purpose built rentals work financially, the guy has the education: http://www.guyheywood.ca/about-me.html He must be caught up with speculation fever. As for the whole "mortgage helper" suite, does this happen much in other cities or is it's dominance here a Vancouver specialty (and an indication that prices are just too high if you can only afford to buy with a tenant). I lived under a landlord once and have to say unless it is the only way you can make things work financially, keep away. You can sound insulate all you want but… Read more »

Guest
900kCrackHouse
4 years 6 months ago

Ladies and gentleman. The reason why the western world is completely screwed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by

Look at Ireland, they might as well just give up now! Whats the point of even trying to pay back their debt.

Guest
space889
4 years 6 months ago

@Devore: Yes, that's right, heating and water are generally included while gas or electricity is extra. Though I do know buildings that turn off heat until it's like Nov or it gets really cold.

I find the fact that they are required to hook up to a specific heating utility extremely odd and I bet you are right, lots of behind the scene politics and someone is definitely planning on getting rich off it.

Guest
941.3kCrackHouse
4 years 6 months ago

Why don't they just start building new buildings using 8's for floor numbers. 8,18,28,38,48,58,68

oh Wait, we got to skip floor 48… that has a 4. And 5 and 6 and 7 aren't that lucky either. 7 might be a little ghostly. Brings back memories of nearby hospices.

Ok, lets try

8,88,888,8888,88888,8888888,888888888…..

That'll negate the effect of any hospices being built next door.

Guest
space889
4 years 6 months ago

@YLTN @ Work: I think it's more of a Canada thing as there seem to be a lot of basement suite in Toronto as well, at least based on watching Income Properties and other similar shows. However in Income Properties case, a lot of the times the basement rental income would cover like 50% to 75%+ to occassionally 100% of those people's mortgage payments!!! I seriously doubt something like that is feasible in Vancouver as a rule of thumb. As for as I know, US it's more of whole house rental or rooming housing type of arrangement. Very few people… Read more »

Member
alx
4 years 6 months ago

Got a friend who's getting married. She and her soon-to-be husband were renting in east Van before and they talked about how rent was reasonable and houses were too costly to buy. But now that they are getting married, suddenly "buying a house" is a given. He said he prefers a house over a condo because for the extra he pays, he can get a tenant that helps with 1/3 of the mortgage. He hopes the interest rate doesn't go up too soon. He wants to buy in east Van. It's sad and telling of the times and city we… Read more »

Guest
space889
4 years 6 months ago

@Patiently Waiting: Holy shit!!! That's just wow…I'm speechless after reading that….I feel really sad for the tenants who had lived there if they had no other choice. Seriously though I think we need probably stiffer punishment for people like this besides just warnings and compliances. This guy obviously has no regard for people's safety.

Member
Best place on meth
4 years 6 months ago

@900kCrackHouse:

Looks like all of Western Europe is screwed then.

How ironic that Iceland is in the best shape with 35% debt-to-GDP after telling the bankers to fuck off and defaulting.

Next best shape is Italy at 108%.

Guest
YLTN @ Work
4 years 6 months ago

Does anyone else have any anecdotal evidence as to the prevelance of celler dwellers in other cities besides Vancouver? When I put the search "Basement Suite" into Vancouver Craigslist with a limit of $1000 I get 48 hits from today alone. When I put the same search into Seattle Craigslist I get 2 from July 9th (the two from yesterday are for a whole house with an unfinished "basement" and master "suite"). For Toronto, I got 17 for all of July of which only 4 were actually for basement suites. I'm starting to think it is a Vancouver phenom.

jesse
Member
4 years 6 months ago

@alx: "No one questions whether why we should already count on being a landlord by buying a house."

It's like applying for a job with the employer stating you need to provide your own car and supply your own tools to perform regular duties. Not everyone's into that; I'm sure more than a few people take a look at the Vancouver "job description" requirements to be a part-time amateur landlord and move on to the next city, or simply rent.

patriotz
Member
4 years 6 months ago

@Best place on meth:

Iceland did not default on its (i.e. the state's) obligations, it simply refused to assume the banks' obligations.

Guaranteeing the banks' obligations is the reason why Ireland is in such a mess now. On the other hand Greece is in trouble due to its own borrowing – ironically the Greek banking system has been relatively conservative.

Guest
Euro - PIGS
4 years 6 months ago

Meth man

sounds good

Portugal sez IMF F*CK OFF or no more Nando's chicken

Italy sez IMF F*CK OFF or no more pasta

Greece say IMF F*CK OFF or no more olive oil

Spain sez IMF F*CK OFF or no more bullfighting in tight pants

Thanks that felt good…mucho gracias..

patriotz
Member
4 years 6 months ago

@space889:

But I’m sure places like New York would be different from most of US.

NYC has the smallest proportion of SFH out of total dwellings of any US city, so there's little economic rationale for basement suites.

Basement suites are really the market saying that not enough of the city is zoned for multi-unit dwellings.

Guest
chip
4 years 6 months ago

@alx:

I've been looking at the Victoria market lately as we're moving there for my son's school. It's been sliding for a few months now and you can see flippers scrambling down the price ladder. The desperation is beginning.

When I read about your friends, I think about the thousands of newbie buyers coming in at the top who will have a very painful ride down. It's going to be very sad.

Guest
941.3kCrackHouse
4 years 6 months ago

I've seen some people asking for ridiculous amounts of money recently for some of their bedroom basement suites in North Burnaby.

It be a pretty damn good suite if you're going to ask for $1300 to live in your basement.

Guest
Landlord wannabee ad
4 years 6 months ago

Maybe we should swap notes. Best odds: Single women employed (experience…no problems very neat) Single women employed with kids( experience ….no problems mother worked F/T and was doing Masters degree) Young couple with kid….and no steady employment ( experience…trouble….attitude…a bit psycho…. but knew the Residential Tenancy Act….Got rid of asshole by shutting of utilities…..ended up losing $1000 in rent) Single father with kid ( good at start….moved out….left a shit load to clean up….stink still remains ) Lesson…be careful….charge less and get better tenants. Majority are good tenants…but be careful..and have thick skin. If they start jerking you around….make their… Read more »

Guest
Aleks
4 years 6 months ago

I vastly prefer having the landlord above me rather than another renter. 1) it's highly unlikely they will move out unless they sell the house, so you don't have to worry that someone might move in with three kids and a dog. 2) they are likely to take better care of the property than another renter. 3) they are right there in case things go wrong. I've never had a problem with the landlord complaining about noise. I've looked at a few places where they were up-front about the fact their bedroom was right over my living room or whatever,… Read more »

jesse
Member
4 years 6 months ago

@patriotz: "simply refused to assume the banks’ obligations"

… and devalued its currency.

Guest
Aleks
4 years 6 months ago

@patriotz:

NYC has the smallest proportion of SFH out of total dwellings of any US city, so there’s little economic rationale for basement suites.

Basement suites are really the market saying that not enough of the city is zoned for multi-unit dwellings.

New York has a ton of three story row houses that have been split into multiple suites, which is basically the same thing.

Guest
4 years 6 months ago

@941.3kCrackHouse:

no, no, no

what you do is,

for floor numbers,

you go 818, 828, 838, 83a8, 858, 868, 878, 888, 889, 8108, 8118, 8128, 8138, 813a8, 8158 and so on and so forth

that way, you don't run the risk of leaving any potentially unlucky (only to our friends from the orient) numbers out on their own, and instead, you INSULATE them from, you know, nasty things like reality.

hurrrr?

Guest
fixie guy
4 years 6 months ago

@26 Best place on meth Says: "Next best shape is Italy at 108%."

On a per capita basis Canada is one spot better than Italy. Relative GDP it looks better, but don't forget ours is still inflated by a housing bubble. Thanks Steve-O!

Guest
Yalie
4 years 6 months ago

@Keeperofthederp:

I swear, if I ever decide to build an apartment building in Vancouver, it will have exactly the following floors:

4, 13, 14, 24, 34, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 54, 64, 74, 84, 94, 444

Guest
Li Kai Shing
4 years 6 months ago

@Yalie:

and why is that?

Your number sequence looks like Kirstie Alley's measurements since CHEERS ended.

Member
Devore
4 years 6 months ago

@YLTN @ Work: Basement suites are also common in Victoria and Toronto. Look anywhere house prices are high. I think in the prairie provinces many houses either do not have basements, are not suitable for habitation, or the place design just does not allow for two suites easily. Prices were lower, land cheap, construction materials and labor plentiful, no need to account for basement dwellers.

Guest
bubba
4 years 6 months ago

Re: this story http://www.nsnews.com/business/Rental+developer+a… Yikes…. Local gov'ts are becoming involved as Utility Corporations. Scary… Taxpayer exposure….more bureaucracy. What I'd like to do is show you why I believe no one is building rental apartments in North Vancouver," he said. "What this pro forma shows is that you have to go all the way to 2020 on the net cash return line, nine years from now, before you get to a number that is similar to a government bond. That explains how challenging it is." Jardine said he isn't able to pass on the engineering fees – which pay for sidewalks,… Read more »

Guest
Crash
4 years 6 months ago

Here's a couple of attempted flips in Metrotown to watch: MLS#: V893467 7005 Gray Avenue Assessed: $780,000 Sold: Mar 2010 $805,000 Listed: Jul 2011 $1,340,000 (after some renos. maybe $40-50K worth) Note: This was listed in May 2011 for around $1.1 Mil and didn't sell, so now re-listed even higher! MLS#: V899271 7162 Gray Avennue Assessed: $739,900 Sold: Apr 2010 $790,000 Listed: Jul 2011 $1,398,000 (after some renos. maybe $40-50K worth) Both of these houses are 1960's era bungalows and were bought just over one year ago, prettied up with renos and re-listed just after the one year mark to… Read more »

Guest
Li Kai Shing
4 years 6 months ago

Lacist plicks !!!

Marking my posts down!

" 666" YOU..and 4Q

Guest
4 years 6 months ago

@Crash:

awesome – should be interesting!

Guest
bubba
4 years 6 months ago

Has anyone actually seen an Asian renovation?

In HAM central…RichHAMond…I laugh like hell at the weeks they spend gutting an old house(ie 30years plus) with dumpster after dumpster…reno….then try to "frip it".

The best one is to create a gated driveway…..pillars and then metal gate …one piece or two.

Member
CanuckDownUnder
4 years 6 months ago

But I thought HAM was just a Vancouver phenomenon! http://smh.domain.com.au/real-estate-news/chinese… After all the bad news this week the Sydney Morning Herald is in severe crowd control mode today – Saturday is open house and auction day so it's important to show everyone how buying property is still a great investment. In addition to the HAM scare story a second headline simply read "Rocketing rents." That fluff piece contains an anecdote of some guys who offered more than the asking price on a rental unit, told how some pockets of the city were hot, and that rents were up 2.2% for… Read more »

Member
Best place on meth
4 years 6 months ago

@Crash:

Well, you know what they say – if nobody's interested in buying your house then it must be priced too low.

Anyway, Burnaby's gone cold just like every other area.

paulb
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Today:38% S/L

New Listings 227

Price Changes 111

Sold Listings 87

Total Inventory: 16283

Attached this week:43% S/L

New Listings 930

Price Changes 399

Sold Listings 398

Detached this week:47% S/L

New Listings 675

Price Changes 314

Sold Listings 317

Weak week for sales.

Website: http://www.laurenandpaul.ca

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