Friday Free-for-all!

It’s the end of the week! Lets do our regular weekend news round up and open topic discussion thread! Here are a few links to kick off the chat:

-BC tops nation in consumer debt
-BC deficit triples with HST rejection
-Big listings, few sales on Vancouvers westside
-More than half of Canadians live paycheque to paycheque
-Cops want racing luxury cars forfeited
-Conference board sees big shift in housing as boomers retire
-Xceed Mortgage posts $1.7 Million loss
-Low rates could spur mortgage change
-Tenants complain of leaky Surrey building
-Investors no longer find Bernanke stimulating?

So what are you seeing out there? Post your news links, thoughts and anecdotes here and have an excellent weekend!

131 Responses to “Friday Free-for-all!”

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    First!!!

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    What happened to the HAM-villes?

    Richmond

    #Sales: 2011-8 (2010-8) : % Change

    Detached : 95 (124) : -23%

    Attached : 69 (84) : -17%

    Apartments: 96 (127) : -24%

    New Listings 2011-8 (2010-8) : % Change

    Detached : 251 (165) : +52%

    Attached : 165 (125) : +32%

    Apartments: 244 (205) : +19%

    Burnaby

    #Sales: 2011-8 (2010-8) : % Change

    Detached : 96 (89) : +8%

    Attached : 66 (53) : +25%

    Apartments: 169 (151) : +12%

    New Listings 2011-8 (2010-8) : % Change

    Detached : 182 (100) : +82%

    Attached : 124 (114) : +9%

    Apartments: 258 (205) : +26%

    Vancouver West

    #Sales: 2011-8 (2010-8) : % Change

    Detached : 130 (134) : -3%

    Attached : 57 (53) : +8%

    Apartments: 337 (324) : +4%

    New Listings 2011-8 (2010-8) : % Change

    Detached : 270 (196) : +38%

    Attached : 112 (74) : +51%

    Apartments: 627 (609) : +3%

    All data from REBGV Aug 2011 stats package
    http://www.laurenandpaul.ca/MonthlyStatsRelease.u

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    Third!!!!!!!!

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    This doesn't bode well for economist predictions that Canada was bouncing back from negative growth in the second quarter.

    "OTTAWA — There were 5,500 fewer people employed in Canada last month, Statistics Canada said Friday."
    http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Canadian+emp

    And in terms of wealth creation, the underlying numbers are worse than the headline:

    "Private-sector employment dropped by 20,600, there were 22,000 more workers in the public sector and 6,900 fewer self-employed, the data showed."

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    HAM-ville(Richmond) = Twilight Zone

    One project I kept my eye on was next to Palmer High School.A

    " duplex" was built,and actually a nice design , and finished over a month ago.

    The For Sale sign has been up since it was near lock up.

    It backs onto the High School, and elementary school is nearby..so one would think it would be attractive to a HAM buyer.

    Been " For Sale" for 4-5 months.

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    @Bubba: The two custom build houses on a sub-divided lot near my area in Fairview, Cambie & 25th Ave was sold without being listed on MLS! I went to the RE agent's website and each one was ask over $2.2 or $2.3M! I thought those two would have languished on the market as the lot was narrow, only 23ft wide and other houses in the area on standard lot was only asking $1.7M. The agent was Caucasian and I haven't had a chance to see the owners yet. I am really curious as to how bought thes two houses.

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    Oh and I see the fear mongering campaign has began now that the Liberal's pet project HST has been defeated in the polls. I bet some wished that Gordon Campbell didn't change the rules to make it a simple majority rather than the original requirement of 50% of eligible voting population. I also loved how Christy was saying we can't call an election now because the markets/economy can't handle a possible NDP government and such outcome would condemn BC to another lost decade.

    Too bad most people will actually buy these crap.

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    Best place on meth Says:
    8

    Great news for the flailing BC economy.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/08/us-usa-

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    SFH may be slow, IMHO SFH is still the best to own..the most Flex-uses

    In Metro Van, with few exceptions, most SFH are in established neighbourhoods, few new SFH neighbourhoods actually built.

    Condos, Apartments etc are still be built, continually adding to inventory. This dilutes the market…evey Hi Rise in say Richmond,max height = 16 storeys = over 100 plus units per Hi Rise….worse elsewhere. I say in last 6 months Richmond has likely added 1000 such units….not including low rise condos.

    SFH can be converted into "condo" (suite) = revenue and compete against the glut of specuvestors who can't lower rent ie have high overhead costs (strata fees etc.)

    Only Joker is if SFH is over-leveraged, otherwise I say most SFH listings are fi$hing expeditions.

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    Anonymous Says:
    10

    @space889: ….we can’t call an election now because the markets/economy can’t handle a possible NDP government and such outcome would condemn BC to another lost decade.

    Too bad most people will actually buy these crap…..

    Ya, it would be a lost decade either way, but even more lost under the NDP.

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    #7 @space889

    Those 3 Cowie row houses on Cambie st you are referring was on sale for over a year. All 3 had changed realtors a couple of times and had new prices, the unsold middle one's price was I am sure under 2 million and the 2 that sold were around 1.7 million. I saw them at open house. Yeah, I like to know who and how much they sold for as well.

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    Patiently Waiting Says:
    12

    @Best place on meth: Makes sense in a depressed economy. Marijuana creates a false sense of well-being and lets you forget stuff…like that good job you once had.

    Not sure why meth/coke use is down. Less partying? Methheads dying off? Less need for the boost when you have nothing to do?

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    @chip: "doesn’t bode well"

    Yeah I agree, especially if the US continues its austerity measures. There is a greater-than-even chance, in my view, that the government will forgo its balanced budget mandate in the name of additional stimulus spending, in whatever form that takes.

    As has been pointed out, though, last time this happened a lot of this spending got plowed into real estate and mortgages through high household debt accumulation. The Bank of Canada thinks that is a bad place to pour more money. If they are going to start flooding the market with spending again, they will have to do something about mortgage growth. I've stated before that I think this was a good possibility anyways, even without economic malaise, because loan originations have migrated more into the low-ratio market out of the direct control of the government. My suspicion is that the government will start instituting tighter capital requirements on mortgage loans through OSFI to try to balance DSRs between the low ratio loans and the CMHC-insured ones. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet, actually, but it would have a reasonable impact on credit growth relatively quickly.

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    @Anonymous:

    Oh yeah…… talk about being really screwed if NDP , the party of " LAST n'LOONIE resort" …….slides into power like shite through a goose.

    We should have Jimmy Pattison put up Billboards saying

    " WILL THE LAST BC RESIDENT TO LEAVE PLEASE TURN OUT THE LIGHTS "

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    Re; Civic Elections and COV

    Other Blogs figure VISION and COPE will get back in (majority) via default…the NPA is in such disarray..no other options on horizon .

    Sure glad I don't live in that berg'. Everybody should buy stainless steel shorts, at least (3) more years of those F*cking retards.

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    Sorry folks…I seem to have forgotten my schizo meds today.

    Forgive my ramblings on empty lots, one sold house and politics.

    Screw you panzie bears. Listen to me now!

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    Scew you bubba. Stop talking to me – I mean my mind talking out loud.

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    Anonymous Says:
    18

    @Patiently Waiting: …Not sure why meth/coke use is down. Less partying? Methheads dying off? Less need for the boost when you have nothing to do?…

    Coke is down because there are lots of Real Estate professionals (yuk, yuk) out of work and meth is down because there's nothing left to steal to finance habits and nobody to buy from fences even if there was anything to fence.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    19

    @space889:

    I also loved how Christy was saying we can’t call an election now because the markets/economy can’t handle a possible NDP government and such outcome would condemn BC to another lost decade.

    We can't have an election until April 2013 because that's what the law says. Funny how the Liberals and the NDP haven't said much about this.

    As for the HST, RE bears should be happy that the PST is coming back as it will be another blow to the real economy. Just hope you keep your job.

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    Anonymous Says:
    20

    @space889:

    I think 2002-2012 will be soon regarded as a lost decade. The city turned so unlivable and shallow for most locals unless they sacrifice high percentage of the income to housing and so called lifestyles.

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    Li Kai Shing Says:
    21

    Re: Car Forfeiture

    I tink there is better solution….under" Save -Face" bitch – slap rules.

    Force these insolent spawn of concubine tupperware orgy/party to drive beaters..at least 3 year old cars …maybe even Smart Cars and Ladas.

    Take away cell phones, bluetooth, Apple devices and laptop.

    Not allowed to take Math /Physics courses, no speakee Chinese in public, and not hog tables at UBC/Starbucks studying 25 hours a day.

    No more "Slug walk" across Crosswalks…

    Take to RedNeck camp..learn to hunt, shoot,fish shit- in -woods…pee to write name in snow….Understand Andrew Dice Clay Jokes .

    Some good may come out of this

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    @Best place on meth:

    Only problem is local cultivation is on the rise in a big way. Local cultivation leads to excess yields and likely lower export demand from BC.

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    @patriotz: "RE bears should be happy that the PST is coming back as it will be another blow to the real economy"

    I'm still trying to figure out how much of a "blow" it will be. The vast majority of my purchases were unaffected, and maybe even were reduced a bit for some of the services. Maybe streamlining the accounting made sense but how much was that really going to help?

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    whydoItry Says:
    24

    Re: Cars

    Never let the police have powers such as that. Having worked with cops, I know they WILL abuse that power. I know of one cop, that ticketed his ex wife's new friends. Cops are generally good, but you have to watch them. It's a thin line between them and the bad guys at times.

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    Best place on meth Says:
    25

    @Someguy:

    I wonder if those new Hydro "smart" meters will have any impact on growers.

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    southseacompany Says:
    26

    In today's Province: "Housing 'bubble' bound to burst"
    http://www.theprovince.com/business/Housing+bubbl

    And here's the view from Ireland: "Canada's Northern Tiger looks very like a bubble", Irish Times
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/

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    @jesse:

    "I’m still trying to figure out how much of a “blow” it will be. The vast majority of my purchases were unaffected, and maybe even were reduced a bit for some of the services. Maybe streamlining the accounting made sense but how much was that really going to help?"

    Basically, the change worked so that consumers paid a little bit more, but businesses stopped paying PST (they never paid GST). The HST was not really about individuals. It was a tax break for businesses.

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    pipewrench Says:
    28

    http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/09/04/opin

    a chart that puts things in perspective. Debt bubbles are just wonderful aren't they?

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    @Best place on meth:

    Smart Meters? are bad for the average citizen…do some googling and YOUTUBE. Many BC Local Gov'ts are doing as follows

    QUOTE:

    Further to my last letter dated August 8, 2011, I would like to inform you that last night (August 25), Victoria City Council unanimously passed a motion to write to provincial Ministers, asking for a moratorium on the installation of smart meters until options are available for people to opt out.

    11 other City/Town councils in BC have already passed similar resolutions over the past months:

    Langley, Colwood, North Cowichan, Lake Cowichan, District of Highlands, Duncan, Gibsons, Metchosin, New Denver, Saanich, Islands Trusts.

    In California, 10 counties and 34 cities/towns/jurisdictions have gone on record with their opposition to Smart Meters. 11 of these local governments even passed ordinances that made Smart Meter installations illegal within their jurisdictions. http://tinyurl.com/3l6rgag

    =======================================================

    Big rally coming in Vancouver Mid September

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    30

    @Anonymous:

    There will be a second "lost decade" after that while BC, and Canada as a whole to a lesser extent, try to put the real economy back together again. This is where the US etc are already.

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    Keeping An Eye On Th Says:
    31

    Just got off the phone to Flaherty, boy was he pissed, at me. He hung up without saying bye.

    I told him to stop taking credit for the positive indicators, citing prudent fiscal management, and blaming the rest of the world when indicators turn negative.

    He became quite indignant when I told him that his latest grandstanding interview taking on the Canadian Retailers for price gouging is a deceitful attempt at distracting the people from the real issues.

    He replied that he had been taking points from the “greatest place on earth, and British Columbia’s Golden Decade” hand book.

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    Apparently Earth Quake hit Van-Isle …. Courtenay area.

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    Best place on meth Says:
    33

    @bubba:

    Yeah, I heard it.

    http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/275493

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    specialfx3000 Says:
    34

    @Best place on meth:

    I didn't feel a thing but family member that works at the Telus 'boot' felt it.

    HAM was freaked out about Richmond after the Japan quake, now hopefully they'll get freaked out about Burnaby as well.

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    southseacompany Says:
    35

    Felt it in the West End.. building swaying and walls cracking.

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    Anonymous Says:
    36

    @patriotz: "We can’t have an election until April 2013 because that’s what the law says"

    Sorry – you got that wrong. The law says you can't have it after May, 2013 but is silent on having it before.

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    #19 patriotz

    Yeah:

    No whore like an old whore

    Translation: They are all scared we may kick their asses out in the real world amongst us. ..very scary. By delaying till 2013, they can "top up/be eligible" for gold-plated pensions and annual salaries starting around $100,000 plus various perks and benefits.

    NDP = Vampire Squid/Ass Remora/ "all talk" morons, useless bloodsucking F*cking commie bastards. Also : NDP eat brains and don't come out till after dark…gutless SOB's

    PS See..even Bill "HST" Vander Zalm hates em

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju3h7yk4Hcg

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    Earth Quake update:

    Apparently 6.7 Richter @ Point Hardy

    Hmm Tsunami….at least wash False Creek Floaties away and help OV sales.

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    Li Kai Shing Says:
    39

    Turnstiles may limit flow to future riots: TransLink

    http://www.bclocalnews.com/richmond_southdelta/ri
    ======

    I very pissed.

    This is only way to support economy …new venture " Riot Tourism"

    Also, this is multi-cultural bonding..our own Quasi-United Nations !!!…..a chance to bond !!!!

    Canned Schmucks never get to Cup final…probably transfer team to Newfoundland soon..too embarrasssing and thus slow condo sales….. but this world class riot has many tangential opportunities !

    Maybe stage at BC Place !

    PS Meth Man ..is that you with SideShow Bob haircut ?

    No-one want to mess with you !!!(…if ever get out of basement suite again )

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @N: "the change worked so that consumers paid a little bit more, but businesses stopped paying PST"

    So this was a reduction in taxes or a rise in taxes? I'm awfully confused, because the government stated that because taxes are going up, or down, or whatever, their deficit goes up.

    I'm not trying to be obtuse here, I'm trying to demonstrate how confusing tax policy is for most people.

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    Bloomberg: Executive Board Member Stark of Germany Steps Down

    Juergen Stark resigned from the European Central Bank’s Executive Board after protesting the bank’s bond purchases on a conference call earlier this week, said a euro-area central bank official familiar with the meeting.

    During the Sept. 4 call, Stark, 63, expressed his strong opposition to the program, which was expanded last month when the ECB started buying Italian and Spanish bonds, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the discussions are confidential. Stark was supported by the central banks of Austria and the Netherlands, the person said. The resignation of Stark, the ECB’s chief economist, is a blow to the bank, the official said, noting he is the second German ECB member after Axel Weber to leave over the bond program.

    This seems like far-field news but it shows how deadly the Eurozone crisis may become when someone as prominent as Stark gives up. In other news, stock markets fell today…

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    @jesse:

    It was both: a reduction in taxes for business and a raise in taxes for consumers. The decreased rate of taxation on businesses was expected to increase the amount of business done in BC and thus increase total revenues.You don't hear the government explaining that, because it is not a very popular message.The truth is, however, that you cannot really tax business, as businesses either pass on costs to consumers or pay less to their owners or both, so the tax is always on people. But taxing businesses sounds good to most people, and taxing people sounds bad, so governments often pretend to tax businesses.

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    @jesse: Is that the founder of Stark Industries? Prominent indeed! :)

    Of course Germans are opposed to ECB bond purchases, as well as Eurobonds, because when push comes to shove, they'll be the ones on the hook for them.

    Still, it seems like a drastic "taking my ball and going home"-type move. I thought only Teabaggers were allowed to be petty.

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    @N: The inescapable fact is there is only one taxpayer.

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    Anonymous Says:
    45

    @north: No, I'm talking about the ones that are on actually on Ash street and 22nd Ave. The ones you are referring to are on Cambie and 33rd. I didn't even know they managed to sell 2! I think there is actually a 4th one that's behind the 3 units that are on the street.

    At least those ones looked like they had a proper concrete wall between the units rather than some drywall and insulation foams.

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    Complex Pressures On 'A Simple Man'

    "My rant about the Asian mentality toward housing. My getting married and having children is, to my parents, the sum total of my goal for existence. I can’t move out of Vancouver even if I want to."

    http://wp.me/pcq1o-2UD

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    Anonymous Says:
    47

    "So this was a reduction in taxes or a rise in taxes? I’m awfully confused, because the government stated that because taxes are going up, or down, or whatever, their deficit goes up."

    When economic activity goes up (more businesses start up, more people employed) the amount of taxes collected goes up due to a larger tax base. You can have a tax reduction but increase tax revenue.

    It also works the other way. This is the part the NDP doesn't get. Sometimes when you increase taxes you collect less overall taxes due to less jobs and business activity.

    There is a sweet spot on taxation just like there is with what a business charges for its goods and services. A business can make less money by increasing prices because sales drop.

    The HST is a big deal now because many businesses have a choice to set up in Alberta or Ontario and reduce their expenses by 7% on many input costs. Businesses in Ontario can now also cut prices and put many established businesses here in BC out of business.

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    Anonymous Says:
    48

    @patriotz: Laws are not set in stone and can be changed. As well it's Christy who was talking about early election when she first got elected which she is now backing away from. More likely due to fear of losing than what the law says.

    Actually PST coming back would be a benefit to economy if the government claim that they are now taking in less tax money is true. It would mean more money in the hands of the average people rather than taxed away under HST. At the very least, the restaurants sector will get a reprieve. We eat out a lot less now due in a good part to the HST. 12% + 10% to 20% for tips add up way too quick to that innocent looking $40 bill.

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    @N: "The decreased rate of taxation on businesses was expected to increase the amount of business done in BC and thus increase total revenues"

    Again, I am not trying to be snarky so please follow through with me here. I'll put this as plainly as possible. There are two scenarios, and I'm hearing both from various sources:

    1) Lowering the overall tax rate increases government revenue

    2) Raising the overall tax rate increases government revenue

    Does the HST raise or lower the overall tax rate?

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    Best place on meth Says:
    50

    Greek default could come this weekend.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/european-

    There's your earthquake.

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    Anonymous Says:
    51

    @Devore: Not really….you can also tax exporting business transactions which while have consequences does increase your tax base indirectly.

    For industries where there is limited substitution/alternative source/etc, it's a perfectly good idea to tax the export in these industries at a reasonable rate to increase tax revenue.

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    @jesse: It's not just the tax rate. Invariably, increased taxes will eventually result in more tax revenue. There is a threshold of sorts. If taxes were 10% on everything, I'd say take it and leave me alone. But when they're 30, 40, 50%, I don't know anyone, no matter how rich or poor, who is not looking at every way available to reduce their taxes, be it through loopholes (and high taxes usually come with a complex set of rules), legal avoidance strategies, questionable claims and deductions, and outright tax evasion.

    So I think it matters where and how taxes are applied. A lower tax rate could stimulate more business activity, it could also result in money being siphoned off to somewhere else.

    Government will claim one outcome, using a certain set of assumptions which may or may not be true, and critics will claim something else.

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    Not much of a name.. Says:
    53

    @Anonymous:

    At the very least, the restaurants sector will get a reprieve. We eat out a lot less now due in a good part to the HST. 12% + 10% to 20% for tips add up way too quick to that innocent looking $40 bill.

    Yup, that extra $2.80 that the meal cost means what, one less latte every two weeks???

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    @Anonymous: Fair enough, but in most industries there is sufficient competing global supply (and capacity), and that you will eventually reduce the exports. In the end, only people who cannot pass on increased costs to others (employees, customers, shareholders, pensions) end up paying for all tax increases.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    55

    @Anonymous:

    Laws are not set in stone and can be changed.

    You either have fixed election dates or you don't. The fixed election date was brought in by the Campbell government in 2001 and observed for the subsequent two elections.

    If any party doesn't want to continue this it should commit to going back to the old system in its election platform, just like Campbell put fixed election dates in his platform in 2001. The people deserve honesty on this just as they deserved honesty on the HST.

    Nobody in either the Liberals or NDP (including Crusty or Dix) has advocated going back to the old system, and both parties should be expected to honour the fixed election date going forward.

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    reasonfirst Says:
    56

    @patriotz: re: fixed election date

    The election date is not fully fixed – it can be held anytime before May 2013. That is the law, it does not need to be changed to hold an earlier election. Section 23: http://tinyurl.com/3gepzzd

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    @Devore: "So I think it matters where and how taxes are applied."

    OK so let's narrow it down. In the extreme if everyone is taxed 100% or whatever yeah there's a problem to foster innovation, but we aren't talking about that situation. We're talking about a marginal change in a consumption tax (which is around 12%) and it either increases or decreases revenue.

    My main points are:

    1) It's hard to get a straight answer about whether or not the HST is a tax rise or a tax cut; it's either one or the other when looking at a finite basket of goods and services.

    2) The government hasn't well articulated its position whether the HST is tax rise or a tax cut on a finite basket of goods and services.

    3) The government, by not articulating its position, is also unable to articulate whether a tax rise/cut increases/decreases government revenue.

    Now try to explain this to my hard-working middle-class neighbour without any formal training in economics and I can see why things went the way they did at the polls. In fact even people vehemently attesting to be from one position or the other WRT the HST are giving me different stories too!

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    @jesse: All other things being equal, one could calculate easily (assuming you have the source data) and state in a clear-cut way whether HST would bring in more taxes than GST/PST. But all things will not remain equal after the switch to HST, and the argument was the new system would result in more business activity (and presumably more taxes collected) than before.

    Without any hard numbers, we're left to speculate.

    Well, PST+GST was 12%, but there were lots of exemptions, so it's actually lower, but it was complicated to administer, so it was more expensive and costs were passed on to consumers.

    HST was 12%, but it didn't have as many exemptions, so it's higher than PST+GST for some things, but it was easier to collect and administer, so savings were passed on to consumers.

    And you can argue it either way.

    I don't know how much of a factor the PST+GST vs HST tax regime has on selection of location for a new or expanding business, assuming the business has a choice. Availability of resources and skills (and then also the costs thereof) is probably more of a driver than how taxes are structured, given that they're fairly similar across Canada (except for Alberta with no provincial sales tax).

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    Best place on meth Says:
    60

    @reasonfirst:

    Rule #1 isn't all that clear.

    General elections

    23 (1) The Lieutenant Governor may, by proclamation in Her Majesty's name, prorogue or dissolve the Legislative Assembly when the Lieutenant Governor sees fit.

    (2) Subject to subsection (1), a general voting day must occur on May 17, 2005 and thereafter on the second Tuesday in May in the fourth calendar year following the general voting day for the most recently held general election.

    (3) In subsection (2), "general election" and "general voting day" have the same meanings as in section 1 of the Election Act.

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    @Devore: "And you can argue it either way."

    Hence the problem. So let's leave aside the complications with HST and "passing on" costs to consumers. Some people are advocating to me that a drop in tax rate increases government revenue. Others — NDP supporters in this case — are arguing that a tax rise will increase government revenue. Both were supporters of the HST.

    OK so which position does the BC Liberal government hold? Do they think higher or lower taxes produce more revenue? Heck if I know; for "sound fiscal managers" they weren't very clear, even long after they admitted they weren't very clear.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    fixie guy Says:
    62

    Isn't the argument for HST-style taxes…

    - reduced administrative cost of operating to businesses, passed to the consumer, by simplified operating

    - the end consumer no longer paying taxes at the final sale on business-to-business taxes paid upstream?

    HST should be better for everyone once inflation absorbs the initial expected price reductions which businesses inevitably pocket. Arguments politicians make about HST, on the other hand, I wouldn't expect to be particularly connected to facts, right and wrong more coincidence than intent.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    patriotz patriotz Says:
    63

    @Best place on meth:

    "Rule #1 isn’t all that clear."

    It's pretty clear to me – the L-G has the power to call an election if necessary for the continued good governance of the province, e.g. when the government has lost the confidence of the Legislature.

    Note it says "Lieutenant Governor" not "Lieutenant Governor in Council", the latter being the common legalese for the cabinet. That is, it's not an escape clause for the premier to call an election when he/she feels like it. It means the L-G personally.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @jesse: My simple-minded assumption is that if government is bringing in a new tax, or changing taxes around, it is with the expectation they will collect more money. If they wanted to cut taxes, they could just reduce the rates.

    But, to your question, is HST a tax increase or decrease? And in a circle we go. Instead of clearing through the clutter, they further confused the issue with "revenue neutrality" (which assumes they figured out how much more/less money it would bring in, and how much more activity it would stimulate or not), and trying to make it a "progressive tax" (which consumption taxes are not) through rebates/refunds to certain demographics.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    patriotz patriotz Says:
    65

    @fixie guy:

    "- the end consumer no longer paying taxes at the final sale on business-to-business taxes paid upstream?"

    No that's backwards. The purpose of a VAT is to make the end consumer pay the full burden.

    This makes business more competitive since if the end consumer is in another jurisdiction the VAT is not levied but the intermediaries still get their refunds.

    For the simplest example, it puts BC businesses on an equal footing with Alberta businesses which pay no provincial sales tax.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @patriotz:

    the L-G has the power to call an election if necessary for the continued good governance of the province, e.g. when the government has lost the confidence of the Legislature.

    Federally this is done through a non-confidence vote. Is this also the case provincially? Is it the only mechanism?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @patriotz: "This makes business more competitive since if the end consumer is in another jurisdiction the VAT is not levied but the intermediaries still get their refunds."

    So this argument is that lowering taxes collected, by way of not charging PST on production inputs, will increase economic growth, in name of more even provincial competition. It doesn't speak to how government revenues are affected.

    If provincial competition is a problem this can be solved, rather crudely and if it wasn't already, with targeted handouts. Not ideal but not necessarily a death knell for businesses, if bureaucrats are creative.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    fixie guy Says:
    68

    66 patriotz Says: "The purpose of a VAT is to make the end consumer pay the full burden."

    The consumer pays the full burden in either case. Businesses don't absorb intermediary taxes and increased op costs, they're reflected in the final price and those increases are further marked up by distribution middle men and retailers, multiplying the effect. The consumer on top of that pays additional taxes at the till on the mark-ups caused by taxes along the chain. Moving all those taxes to the end of the production chain is the only efficient way to avoid them being multiplied along the chain.

    HST only make brings what was hidden to light. Had businesses passed on those savings when HST was implemented Old Van Zant would still be a forgotten crook.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @fixie guy: "Had businesses passed on those savings when HST was implemented Old Van Zant would still be a forgotten crook."

    Add in 3% inflation and the savings may have actually been passed on but in net prices still would have gone up. Looks like real estate prices aren't the only things that are sticky.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    New Listings 253

    Price Changes 94

    Sold Listings 106

    TI:16318

    If you like the stats updates please “like” our Facebook page http://tinyurl.com/paulandlauren

    Website http://www.laurenandpaul.ca

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    [...] The Richmond RE market has very definitely softened year over year: #Sales: 2011-8 (2010-8) : % Change Detached : 95 (124) : -23% Attached : 69 (84) : -17% Apartments: 96 (127) : -24% New Listings 2011-8 (2010-8) : % Change Detached : 251 (165) : +52% Attached : 165 (125) : +32% Apartments: 244 (205) : +19% – via VMD, vancouvercondo.info 9 Sep 2011 [...]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    72

    @patriotz: …..The people deserve honesty on this just as they deserved honesty on the HST……

    Honesty? Honestly? Dealing with folks honestly would rule out all previous, current and future politicians.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    What can you get for a million dollars in E. Van?

    Apparently a really poorly constructed new house. I was, and still am, in total shock when I walked into this open house, 5688 Fleming, MLS V900800. The floors were covered with construction dust, one of the toilets had yellow stains on the seat. But that's not the worst part. There were large gaps where flooring met baseboards. Cupboards were crooked. Two closets were so narrow that it's disgusting to call them closets, they were literally a foot wide! I'm sure they had to order special doors for them. One of the toilet was so close to the door, that you can barely open the door without scraping by the toilet seat. There is supposed to be a washroom attached to the master bedroom on the top floor that was not approved by the city. The sketchy builders will install it at a later date by removing part of the outside wall and putting the washroom, where the current sun deck is. The silicon for the window frames were all crooked, smeared all over the place and yellow.

    I asked the realtor a couple of times, who the builders are, so we never use them. But he insisted he didn't know and that they've been doing this for 20+ years. What a lie! I've driven by this house and seen the builders, they are definitely recent mainlanders.

    You have to see it to believe it. Absolutely disgusting for $928,000.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    What a joke! Here's what 925K gets you in West Palm Beach Florida…
    http://tinyurl.com/6lyag8d

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @fixie guy:

    "Businesses don’t absorb intermediary taxes and increased op costs, they’re reflected in the final price"

    That's true only if all competing businesses operate under the same tax and cost regime. If a business in BC is competing with one in Alberta or Ontario for the same customers, it (or its employees) will have to absorb the extra taxes and operating expenses to make a sale.

    Or more likely, a BC business will not attempt to compete at all.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Li Kai Shing Says:
    76

    Advice to POPE-ez:

    Keep " Friday free -for -all" through weekend…till Monday

    Other topics can wait til Monday.

    That way, we can crash patriotz and Meth Man parties, projectile vomit, and maybe hot wire/boost high end vehicles and test their enginnering specs

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    interesting read, Vancouver stock exchange the global scam centre.
    http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Li Kai Shing Says:
    78

    I tink most VCI posters can't handle truth.

    Vote me down is sign/billboard " head up ass"

    I arm wrestle BillGates / Warren Buffet..tag team at same time!!!………and as usual I win, with 888 concubibe cheerleaders.

    I am gettingk 123 % perfect , boringk……timr to establish handicap. I say VCI leftie re-turd's be auoo-excluded.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Are all the hypsters taking the summer off? We haven't heard anything from Cam Good or Bob Rennie for quite a while.

    Although I guess Rennie is hoping people wont notice the debacle that is the half-empty Olympic Village.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    80

    @paulb: Thanks Paulb! I wonder if we'll hit 17k listings by the end of September?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    81

    @Hubert

    Cam Good was on the front page of the Sun's Real Estate Section today. Selling some condos in White Rock.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    82

    @Anonymous#81

    They love Cam Good on Craigslist.

    http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/rnr/2572843

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Li Kai Shing Says:
    83

    @Anonymous:

    Did your grandmother write that in church/synagogue ?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Li Kai Shing Says:
    84

    Li Kai Shing doppleganger on Post 78:

    Quite good, almost fool me, but day planner say I was with concubine # 1467 when posted. I is clear I am most read poster on VCI,how vote is irrelevant.

    Warren buffer,,,never underestimate …he tough arm wrestler. I see him smoke Jesse Ventura and Triple "H". the he wanted me to sell him a real hot concubine..which was tempting but I thought showed lack of morals, but did get his autograph.

    Bill Gates too busy watching porn on his DELL laptop

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Patiently Waiting Says:
    85

    Scam looking festive. The next Bob Rennie.

    http://www.vancouversun.com/news/todays-paper/Mov

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Patiently Waiting Says:
    86

    Scam has been busy moving this summer. His new street-level digs at 639 East 6th St.

    http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=239+EAST+6TH+AVE,+VA

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Had a picnic with a couple in their 30s yesterday.

    He is currenly unemployed. She is part-time student and works as a professional but not in a high paying field.

    He currenly owns two condos and they have been looking to buy a home in East Van. They figure it will cost about $800,000 with around another $100,000 worth of rennovations.

    He expressed a little fustration that the bank wouldn't give him a mortgage given his current employment status and also would not allow him to borrow against the full "equity" he has in the two condos.

    But he is moving ahead with the assumption that he will get a six figure income in the next couple months and he will be able to sell one of his condos easily.

    I expressed my view that not being able to buy another house is a good thing given the fact that home values are about to take a substaintial hit.

    Despite the fact I have studied finance and economics at the post-graduate level (and they have little training in this area) my comment was ignored.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    88

    "Are all the hypsters taking the summer off? We haven’t heard anything from Cam Good or Bob Rennie for quite a while."

    Ozzie Jurock was on the MC show on CKNW yesterday. His comment on Vancouver real estate was to "hide for the next 2 to 3 years". Nice to hear even the most shameful pimps making bearish comments.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    "Despite the fact I have studied finance and economics at the post-graduate level (and they have little training in this area) my comment was ignored."

    You're wasting your time. People will do what they want to do. It's all about emotion.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    90

    "Despite the fact I have studied finance and economics at the post-graduate level (and they have little training in this area) my comment was ignored."

    dont blame your friend. finance and economics at the post-graduate level but having no balls, your friend will still come out ahead.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    pricedoutfornow Says:
    91

    @Eddie:

    People in Vancouver are delusional. Hm, let's see, I can buy a house in East Van for $925k with a standard lot size (and a couple of suites to help pay the mortgage).

    Or I can go to Florida and buy a 2.5 acre estate (with guest house and pool) for the same price.

    Have we lots our minds?? I think that's a question people will be asking themselves a lot in the next ten years. Seems to be a lot of for sale signs in my hood. I think it's over.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    92

    when are you going to florida? what is holding you here?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Best place on meth Says:
    93

    @Patiently Waiting:

    Why is that fucking lowlife wearing a Lei?

    Because nothing says Hawaii like south Surrey?

    Maybe the douchette in the photo with him is the scum who was posting here in the forums.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @Patiently Waiting:

    Quit stalking me asshole…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Nothing says Surrey than Beirut

    Nothing says Meth Man like basement suite loser

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Ravishing Rick Says:
    96

    Cut the music!

    All you fosters beer drinking, shrimp on the bar-bee throwing, Marsupial wanna be's… Sit down so you can see what a real mammal is supposed ro look like!

    From bloomberg, its like stepping into a time machine and looking at canada a few months out::

    Australian households are saving more as assets including stocks and houses decline in value as the Reserve Bank of Australia maintains the benchmark lending rate at a developed- world high of 4.75 percent.

    A 13.5 percent increase in the Australia dollar in the past year, spurred by a boom in mining investment to meet demand from India and China, is hurting the nation’s manufacturing and tourism industries.

    On top of the high currency, “the lingering effects of the global financial crisis and continuing international uncertainty have resulted in Australian consumers being a lot more cautious in their spending,” Australian Treasurer Wayne Swan said yesterday in a weekly economic note. “This is making life harder for sectors like manufacturing, tourism and retailing.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Li Kai Shing Says:
    97

    96 Ravishing Rick

    What does back of avatar shirt say ? beside "$1.50 Value Village" sticker?

    BTW you forgot say "hit the music" dipsh*te

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Patiently Waiting Says:
    98

    Sleazy scam is sleazy

    http://www.terrizona.com/company/founders

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Noodlevan Says:
    99

    There is an article in World Journal (a popular local chinese newspaper targeting Taiwanese and other mandarin speaking Chinese), over the weekend reporting that there is an increasing number of wealthy immigrants being audited by Canada Revenue Agency. The reason: reported income does not support the luxurious life style (mansions, expensive cars etc.). According to the article, this type of cases are now actively pursued by CRA (by linking the reported income with purchases in cars, properties etc.) and has caused an elevated level of concerns among wealthy immigrants.

    The best news I have read in a long while.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    fixie guy Says:
    100

    @99 Noodlevan: It's about f'n time. Curious what that does to certain entry classes.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymouse Says:
    101

    @Noodlevan:

    I call BS, at least until there's a more reliable source. It sounds like unsubstantiated scaremongering to me. Is the CRA even notified of car purchases?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @Anonymouse:

    It is called a net worth audit. CRA can do this audit on any one and in the process they get all
    Banking records, property info and of course cars. They don't need to be notified of anything. They all info on assets on their own.

    All they need is a tip or internal computer algorithms to generate audit leads.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    I hear China is going to impliment an income tax at the end of the year, something to do with those earning $500,000 year?

    ===============================================================

    A fellow I know brother works for CRA.

    They get bonuses for "good hunting"

    I wouldn't be surprised if "certain groups" get targeted, Gov'ts are whores for cash PERIOD ……..and will turn against cash cow. I think the Asian cash cow is drying up, so need to worry about diplomacy and ass kissing…

    Especially with proceeds of crime laws and money laundering etc….I can foresee a lot of forfeiture ie houses etc..one good hunt could easily get Gov't $1 Million, multiply that by the HUGE potential.

    Maybe that was the plan all along….let em in …then nail em?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    anonymous1 Says:
    104

    @Anonymouse:

    Net worth audits definitely happening and have been going on for years. This is nothing new. If you live in a house that you paid $1 million cash for and you report net income of $20k per year, CRA just may come knocking on your door. I guess this is how they would find those families where the husband lives in China and sends money back to the family who lives permanently here (worldwide income should probably be taxed for the whole family in Canada). This is also how they tax the income of drug dealers, marijuana grow ops, escorts etc. It's quite straight forward and stands up in court.

    So if your neighbour seems to be living beyond their means, CRA is always interested in knowing about this (though I still believe that the vast majority are living the high life due to debt rather than drugs or other illicit activities).

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Best place on meth Says:
    105

    @Noodlevan:

    Excellent, go get 'em CRA!

    <a href="http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?trurl=http%3A%2F%2 Fwww.worldjournal.com%2Fview%2Ffull_news%2F15472206%2Farticle-%25E6%259C%25AA%25E7%25B9%25B3%25E7%25A8%2585%25E4%25BD%258F%25E8%25B1%25AA%25E5%25AE%2585-%25E8%258F%25AF%25E8%25A3%2594%25E6%2586%2582%25E6%259F%25A5%25E7%25A8%2585%3Finstance%3Dnews_pics&lp=zt_en&.intl=us&fr=yfp-t-701″ target=”_blank”>http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?trurl=ht…” target=”_blank”>Fwww.worldjournal.com%2Fview%2Ffull_news%2F15472206%2Farticle-%25E6%259C%25AA%25E7%25B9%25B3%25E7%25A8%2585%25E4%25BD%258F%25E8%25B1%25AA%25E5%25AE%2585-%25E8%258F%25AF%25E8%25A3%2594%25E6%2586%2582%25E6%259F%25A5%25E7%25A8%2585%3Finstance%3Dnews_pics&lp=zt_en&.intl=us&fr=yfp-t-701

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    fixie guy Says:
    106

    103 bubba Says: "…. Gov’ts are whores for cash PERIOD ……..and will turn against cash cow. "

    Is that what investigating and prosecuting tax fraud is called these days? I must be behind the times. Damn fed, taking advantage of crooks!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    How can we broadcast this information about the CRA on other Chinese web-sites. Maybe we should e-mail it to their realtors.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @fixie guy:

    Bro…

    Nothing better than VCI comrade that has had a seismic epiphany.

    15 Mind-Blowing Facts About Wealth And Inequality In America

    http://www.businessinsider.com/facts-about-inequa

    OR

    22 Statistics That Prove The Middle Class Is Being Systematically Wiped Out Of Existence In America

    http://www.businessinsider.com/22-statistics-that

    =======================================================

    Not to worry… what happens in U.S stays in U.S. …..right ?!?!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymouse Says:
    109

    @WFT?:

    "All they need is a tip or internal computer algorithms to generate audit leads."

    A tip, sure. But do they actually have the information to permit computer analysis? I doubt it, due to privacy laws.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @Anonymouse: They know where you live, assessed value, whether you own or rent, and how much income you claim, along with other particulars like age and employment.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    111

    @Noodlevan: ….. and has caused an elevated level of concerns among wealthy immigrants. …..

    Uh oh! HAM turns to SCRAM (Sino Canadian Retreats with Asian Money)!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    # 105 Meth man:

    Thanks for the link….but geez…that is a prime example of Chinglish..I need a translator as I laugh at the translation.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    real_professional Says:
    113

    Bloomberg:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-11/housing-

    Australia, where home prices are falling at the fastest rate in more than two years, may have a glut of properties and be set for a U.S.-style crash.

    …The housing bears say builders and lenders are pushing flawed government data to keep prices afloat in the English-speaking world’s costliest place to buy a home.

    …“It’s important for the government and banks to keep the myth of a shortage alive,” said Sayce, editor of Melbourne- based online newsletter Money Morning Australia. “Without it, prices drop, and negative equity results in housing repossessions and insolvent banks.”

    Banks in Australia have more than A$1 trillion (sounds a lot like Canada) of housing loans outstanding, with the four-biggest lenders accounting for about 87 percent of the total. The Australian Bankers’ Association said it doesn’t have a position on the so-called housing shortage myth and declined to comment.

    The ratio of household debt to disposable income in Australia is 155 percent, higher than the 133 percent Americans accumulated at the height of the subprime mortgage boom. Demand for housing credit in Australia has plunged to the slowest annual growth pace since central bank records begin in 1977, data Aug. 31 showed.

    Reserve Bank of Australia Governor Glenn Stevens is among those flummoxed as to why homes are so pricey in a nation almost as big as the U.S., with just 22.7 million people.

    “How is it that a country of our size — we are not short of land — how is it that we cannot add to the dwelling stock for the marginal new entrant more cheaply than we seem to be able to do,” Stevens told a parliamentary panel in Melbourne on Aug. 26.

    Keen, who said his Debtwatch blog draws an average of 200,000 hits a day, sold his Sydney apartment in the inner-ring Surrey Hills suburb in 2008, missing out on further gains over 2009 and into 2010. He walked 224 kilometers (139 miles) from Canberra to the top of Mount Kosciuszko in April 2010 after losing a bet made in November 2008 that home prices would drop 40 percent to then Macquarie Group Ltd. economist Rory Robertson.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @Anonymouse:

    The CRA is authorized to get any information to further the administration and enforcement of the income tax act. That includes your banking information, your trading informaton, forcing your customers and tennants to say how much they pay you, forcing you to disclose how much money you spend every year, what assets you bought.

    Of course they have the information to generate audit leads. All they have to do is make a list of every Shaughnessey resident reporting under say $40,000. Some of them will be retirees who have owned the home for decades. Some will be recent immigrants evading taxes. From that list, they match up purchases of Shaughnessey mansions to years with meagre reported income. From there, they compel banks to produce all the taxpayers records. They search the home and catalouge assets. They chart the increase in assets from year to year. If that implies income greate than that reported the taxpayer is charged criminally for tax evision. Or, less seriously, has to pay all the back taxes, interest on the back taxes, penalties of 100% of the tax not paid and interest on the penalties.

    Privacy laws do not prevent any of the above. The income tax act expressly authorizes it. Take a look at the enforcement provisions that begin around section 225. The CRA has powers well beyond that of any other organization in the country.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @WFT?:

    Without getting into debate, you are probably spot -on correct.

    As I noted….the brother (works in financial sector..and Asian)of CRA agent stated to me they (CRA) have sophisticated software that can trace/track assets etc. …..and thus target anomalies.

    That said, I hope they also nail the Lawyers, Immigration consultants etc. and related pimps that facilitated this BS

    Remember..IRS nailed Al Capone…other agencies couldn't.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymouse Says:
    116

    @Devore:

    That's pretty much the information you give on your tax return, plus some which is available to the public.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Cam Good Says:
    117

    I'm f*cked

    I guess I have to go back to pizza delivery after I get my head extracted out of my ass.

    PS At least it's honest living and secure income.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Loyd Christmas Says:
    118

    Wft? That doesn't make any sense, it's wtf

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @Anonymouse: … exactly.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    patriotz patriotz Says:
    120

    @WFT?:

    Keep in mind also that land titles and all information on them are legally public domain and that anyone at all can get a copy electronically.

    At the retail level that costs about $20 a search but I would think that CRA has a bulk access agreement. So they can get their computers to reconcile tax and land title information for anyone automatically without any further procedures and at very small marginal cost.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @patriotz:

    My understanding is anyone can set up one's own account with land titles…pre pay, then have access to data base to find owners …I heard it was $7 per title, cheaper than from land titles …and I think a private company runs it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @Loyd Christmas:

    Wtf? Is too vulgar. That's why I prefer Wft?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Loyd Christmas Says:
    123

    WTF!? Wft, you're a loser!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Loyd Christmas Says:
    124

    Can you guess what my favorite holiday is?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Uncle Smith Says:
    125

    Christmas?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Loyd Christmas Says:
    126

    No, Loyd day

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Uncle Smith Says:
    127

    What about Harry Dunn day?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Loyd Christmas Says:
    128

    That day is done with

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Uncle Smith Says:
    129

    Lloyd, Christmas isn't here yet, don't get excited. PS, do you like people that vote up on their own comments?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Harry Dunn Says:
    130

    Lloyd, Christmas isn’t here yet, don’t get excited. PS, do you like people that vote up on their own comments?

    PS, sorry folks, I meant to put my name as Harry.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Harry Dunn Says:
    131

    Which I didn't need to mention, as I am sure you all figured it out

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

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