Zero west side new home sales
It hasn’t happened yet, but it’s possible that this could turn out to be the first month on record to ever have zero new home sales on the Vancouver west side. Check out the comment from inventory:
Worst New Home sales in September in Vancouver West?
Where are the buyers? Currently there are NO sales of “NEW” HST Homes. there are 71 units available. Five more days to go for a sale. There has never been a ZERO New home sale in Van West since 1994 (Records only go back to 1994).
Vancouver West
New home sales
Sept 2010 / 2011
Listed 61 / 71
Sales 9 / 0 ***As of Sept 25, 2011Van West Sept new home sales:
2008 = 4
2009 = 11
September 25th, 2011 at 10:19 pm 1
Zero sum game, I guess. Time's up!
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September 25th, 2011 at 10:43 pm 2
Why would anyone buy now when they can wait for the HST to go away soon? This is the reverse when there was a rush to buy before the HST was implemented and the REALTORS ™ was telling people to buy.
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September 25th, 2011 at 11:01 pm 3
Let's not get too excited. There is a plausible explanation for the slowdown.
World Class Homebuyers/Investors, from Singapore, Tokyo, Beijing , Mumbai and Monaco, had a" hold" on Vancouver Real Estate pending analysis of Christy Clark's strategy by Michael Levy.
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September 25th, 2011 at 11:06 pm 4
@Anonymous:
Why would anyone buy now when they can wait for the HST to go away soon? This is the reverse when there was a rush to buy before the HST was implemented and the REALTORS ™ was telling people to buy."
Oh go on, World class tycoons, committed to buying a piece to the best place on earth, of which no more is being made, and which will escalate in price in perpetuity, are going to get spooked away by a pesky little thing like the HST?
Give me a break, some of those billionaires blow that kind of money on a "date" for the night.
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September 25th, 2011 at 11:07 pm 5
@Anonymous:
"Why would anyone buy now when they can wait for the HST to go away soon?"
Builders have to absorb the HST because the buyers determine what they are willing and able to pay and they have the option of buying resale houses not subject to HST.
Not surprising that buyers can't figure this out though, since nobody with any sense would be buying now in the first place.
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September 25th, 2011 at 11:12 pm 6
"… pending analysis of Christy Clark’s strategy by Michael Levy."
I thought they were all ears for Michael Campbell because of his penetrating, in-depth and accurate foresight?
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September 25th, 2011 at 11:26 pm 7
Took a look on MLS recently. Holy crap, a Van East off-Kingsway 10 year old irregular 3 suiter asking $1.1mm.
Anecdote: the only reason it didn't sell was because the lot was irregular. Take my word there are still "bargain hunters" actively looking to give away their life savings.
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September 25th, 2011 at 11:52 pm 8
Perhaps ‘HST uncertainty’ will be the factor blamed for the end of the mania.
(No factor is needed, but something is usually blamed).
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September 25th, 2011 at 11:58 pm 9
"Why would anyone buy now when they can wait for the HST to go away soon?"
Why would anybody pay $300K over asking for a 1.5 million dollar tare down not even worth half that? People were doing it.
It looks like the market has changed. Probably little to do with the HST.
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September 26th, 2011 at 12:06 am 10
A friend (who has a house) told me that in 20 years time Vancouver will be populated by HAM, and that the only Caucasians left will be serving them.
Does he picture himself living in such a community, being Caucasian himself? Does he intend to sell for 10 million dollars and leave?
I thought I did not agree with that vision of the future, until I went to Telus World of Science and noticed bilingual exhibition panels: English/Chinese. Not other language. I will sent them a letter expressing my frustration as a non-Chinese ESL immigrant, since they made my kids feel like secondary citizens.
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September 26th, 2011 at 12:43 am 11
Watching all the doom and gloom on TV about the collapsing world economy, why would anyone want to take the plunge and buy a new house?
Seems like world leaders just ran out of tricks to make everybody believe everything is okay.
Homeowners probably want to stay put and hope for the best.
Renters probably want to keep renting and watch the market.
Speculators… sorry I have no advice. They made their bed pretty nice and comfy already.
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September 26th, 2011 at 1:01 am 12
I will sent them a letter expressing my frustration as a non-Chinese ESL immigrant, since they made my kids feel like secondary citizens.
Vancouver provides no end of amazing examples of this behavior – if you're not Chinese try walking into Richmond Acura and see if you get any help! While all the asian sales people run for cover you can wait until the one white sales guy is free and you can then deal with him. As a Caucasian the experience provides a glimpse of what minorities have to deal with I guess…
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September 26th, 2011 at 1:07 am 13
[Burnaby, Coquitlam, Richmond SFH now have > 1year Months-of-Inventory]
Burnaby: 6.1 -> 13.3
Coquitlam: 6.6 -> 12.7
Richmond: 11.5 -> 15.1
I guess instead of busy buying properties after the “traditionally slow” summer season, people are busy selling.
*Stats calculated from Larry’s numbers
http://www.yattermatters.com/2011/09/burnaby-home…
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September 26th, 2011 at 1:55 am 14
@TED
"As a Caucasian the experience provides a glimpse of what minorities have to deal with I guess…"
Sorry, but I disgree with you. First, it has nothing to do with race, only with language. You can be white Caucasian and not understand any of the two official languages of Canada.
Second, I do belong to a minority, being an ESL immigrant. When I first came to Canada, I learned ENGLISH, period. I never expected this province to function in my language. And, most of all, the only way I can mix, work, and share with other citizens, is by speaking English. I have heard very strong talk from Chinese immigrants who made the effort the learn English against places like the one you describe.
At some point some people need to stop feeling sorry for "minorities." Immigrating to Canada is a move that includes learning the local language. I think it is fair to say that most countries in this world expect immigants to be able to function in the local language.
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September 26th, 2011 at 2:02 am 15
@painted turtle: "…is a move that includes learning the local language."
I agree. I am shocked that so few immigrants can't speak at least one Coast Salish language.
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September 26th, 2011 at 2:27 am 16
@b5baxter:
First Nations have the right to ask of those who wish to join their communities to speak their ancestral language. They don't ask this of anyone else.
Immigrants to Canada (outside of people like Grey Owl) are not seeking to join aboriginal communities but Canada at large and we have the right to ask them to use one of our official languages.
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September 26th, 2011 at 2:28 am 17
@painted turtle: "most countries in this world expect immigants to be able to function in the local language."
I'll put it another way, to be relatively successful in Canada you need to learn the local language. If you don't, and happen to be wealthy already, you won't give a fig and will be "successful" by fogging a mirror. If you don't, and happen to be middle class, your lifetime earning power will be much less on balance. Studies have shown this, which is why the provincial government offers English language lessons for new immigrants, who are for the most part looking to make a decent living.
Language gaps only become obvious after 10-15 years and seeing one's peers who read/write/speak good English become more successful. In Vancouver this is a bit perverse because it's easy to fall into ethnic enclaves and never have to speak much English. In the long run, on average, this does not pay off because it limits business opportunities and economies of scale.
Same goes for those who do business in, say, China or India.
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September 26th, 2011 at 3:17 am 18
Just spoke with a realtor (who is selling my family member's house in Calgary). Things are not moving (including my family member's house) in the last 1-2 months. He said in his 20 years as RE agent, he's never seen such a poor situation: people are having harder time getting approved for mortgages; because their own house can't sell, they can't move up into another house; people are tapped out because of debt; people are afraid of the poor economic outlook.
The realtor sees Calgary's RE decline for the next couple years. He said several times "never trust what the media has to say about RE".
He's either one of the "good ones", or is trying to push for another price reduction for a quicker sale. Either way, things are not looking good for Calgary RE.
Oh, he also says that nowadays 60-65% of people are buying properties with 5% down.
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September 26th, 2011 at 3:36 am 19
@VMD: "nowadays 60-65% of people are buying properties with 5% down."
I've heard these anecdotes all over the map. Some mortgage brokers I talk to claim most of their clients are well into low-ratio territory. Unfortunately I don't know of any publicly-available data set that contains data on mortgage originations, like amount, income, DSRs, LTV, credit rating, geographic region, etc.
I hope the government has these aggregated data; otherwise… oh my.
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September 26th, 2011 at 3:57 am 20
I think you don't have to read into it too much. When Mark Carney has been actively warning people to get debt levels in check, he's seeing things that are very worrisome. However, I think he wants to maintain whatever confidence is left and not create downright panic in the markets, and slowly hope people get the message and get their own debt situations under control.
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September 26th, 2011 at 4:04 am 21
@Oilman: Only way Carney can make people listen (if he is serious) is to hike interest rate back to the normal level.
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September 26th, 2011 at 4:05 am 22
After 3 of 4 weeks completed:
September 2011 data
Average Sales 109
Total Sales 1749
Average Listings 280
Total Listings 4487
Average sell/list 39%
Days in month 21
Days elapsed 16
% days elapsed 76%
Expected sales 2,296
Expected listings 5,889
Max daily sales 141
Min daily sales 83
Max daily listings 356
Min daily listings 216
September 2010 data at same point in month
Average Sales 105
Total Sales 1681
Average Listings 232
Total Listings 3719
Average sell/list 45%
Days in month 21
Days elapsed 16
% days elapsed 76%
Expected sales 2,206
Expected listings 4,881
Max daily sales 161
Min daily sales 63
Max daily listings 282
Min daily listings 164
September 2010 month end data
Average Sales 106
Total Sales 2226
Average Listings 226
Total Listings 4737
Average sell/list 48%
Days in month 21
Days elapsed 21
% days elapsed 100%
Expected sales 2,226
Expected listings 4,737
Max daily sales 179
Min daily sales 63
Max daily listings 282
Min daily listings 164
Previous sales volume
1999 1852
2000 1707
2001 2155
2002 2476
2003 3357
2004 2853
2005 3344
2006 2519
2007 2776
2008 1585
2009 3600
2010 2220
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September 26th, 2011 at 4:09 am 23
@VanRant: "Only way Carney can make people listen (if he is serious) is to hike interest rate back to the normal level."
He can strongarm the malleable Flaherty & co. to curtail bank lending via OSFI reserve adjustments. He has been advocating as much on the world stage, so why not lead by example?
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September 26th, 2011 at 4:10 am 24
@VanRant: No, he can't do that as it would cause massive economic pain. As we've talked about ad nauseum here at VCI, the GoC could stop rising mortgage indebtedness with one simple policy change: lower the maximum amortization period on ALL CMHC-insured household mortgage debt to 25 years and require a 20% down payment.
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September 26th, 2011 at 4:22 am 25
@onenangryslav2: "lower the maximum amortization period on ALL CMHC-insured household mortgage debt to 25 years and require a 20% down payment."
I've been stating this for a while, it needs to go deeper than this. Fact is the government has provided banks close to risk-free lending environment via mortgage insurance through CMHC and private insurers. To mitigate further damage the gov't needs to lay the hammer down on all mortgages, not just the high ratio ones — today's low ratio is tomorrow's high ratio.
Cutting off the banks by imposing a drastic change at CMHC would be destabilizing for Canada's banking industry, and Carney has already said stability will be maintained at all costs. You may think removing the moral hazard is the right thing to do or whatever but it is unlikely it will go down like that.
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September 26th, 2011 at 4:23 am 26
@onenangryslav2: Then why the hell would you buy mortgage insurance if you are already ponying up 20% down payment which currently doesn't require mortgage insurance? By making the minimum down payment % as 20% in order qualify for mortgage insurance, you just make the whole concept redunant or making everyone who takes out a mortgage pay a mortgage insurance fee when they didn't have to before.
CMHC insurance should be capped at a maximum absolute amount and maximum relatively amount relative to income and local housing prices. Also no mortgage insurance for speculative purchases like condo investments. Instead have CHMC provide financing for co-ops, rental apartments, etc.
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September 26th, 2011 at 4:28 am 27
20 Oilman Says: "When Mark Carney has been actively warning people to get debt levels in check, he’s …"
…he's being a loathsome, hypocritical piece of shit. His policies enable this indebtedness, it wasn't an issue before his magic hand. "We raised mortgage terms, lowered qualifications, lowered interest rates and bought all your bundled debt banks threw at us but it's your fault you took advantage, not ours!" Which raises the question why they did it if not for people to take advantage of the policies. Worthless trash, bottom of the political garbage pail.
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September 26th, 2011 at 4:33 am 28
The marketplace will take care of the moral hazard on long term amortization periods.
Like standing at the curb waiting for a bus, if the person half a step ahead of you gets nailed by the bus, you instinctively stepped back.
The future instability of the residential market will make people go short term on the amortization as they see those with long term mortgages default. They still may want to make the maximum payment to their mortgage, just not over 30 years. Maybe just 15.
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September 26th, 2011 at 4:43 am 29
@space889:
You're absolutely correct. I agree with both you and Jesse.
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September 26th, 2011 at 4:44 am 30
@space889:
"CMHC insurance should be capped at a maximum absolute amount and maximum relatively amount relative to income and local housing prices."
It should be calculated like any other insurance. i.e. the cost is proportional to the risk.
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September 26th, 2011 at 4:47 am 31
@fixie guy:
Are corporations going on a borrowing binge to take advantage of the low interest rates? No they're not, in fact a lot of them are sitting on piles of cash.
That's an indication that open market interest rates are not too low.
If mortgage lending was not being guaranteed by the government, banks would have to price in default risk like the do for credit cards. What are the rates on those?
As long as the US is maintaining a low interest rate regime Canada must either track it or live with a much stronger CAD, which means job losses – possibly yours or mine.
You cannot expect the BoC to try to counteract misguided GoC policies with respect to a single sector with measures that would hurt the whole economy.
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September 26th, 2011 at 4:56 am 32
http://republicbroadcasting.org/archives/index.ph…
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September 26th, 2011 at 4:59 am 33
@Anonymouse:
"It should be calculated like any other insurance. i.e. the cost is proportional to the risk."
The problem is that mortgage defaults do not represent a statistical risk like people dying or having car accidents, which are uncorrelated and predictable in numbers (but unpredictable as to who they will happen to). They are strongly correlated with external economic events (e.g. recessions) and cascading (i.e. mortgage defaults lead to lower prices which lead to mortgage defaults).
Add to that the political and economic pressure to deny that house prices are ever too high and are likely to come down.
Insuring against a national bust like that seen in the US would be comparable to insuring against deaths in a nuclear strike. Effectively it cannot be done, and you have the events of 2008 as evidence.
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September 26th, 2011 at 5:01 am 34
@fixie guy:
I don't think you understand the mandate of BOC and Carney vs. the GOC and Flaherty, as you seem to throw everything at Carney's feet. Do a bit of Googling before your hate filled rants, at least you'll look a bit smarter. You're like Best Place on Meth without the sense the humour.
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September 26th, 2011 at 5:19 am 35
@patriotz: "Insuring against a national bust like that seen in the US would be comparable to insuring against deaths in a nuclear strike"
I am not aware of an example where mortgage insurance has been used successfully in a speculative bubble. Governments play a role here but we're not talking about exogenous shocks and disasters, we're talking about a catastrophe that can be (could have been) averted with proper policies, and compared to countries who have figured this out Canada will be at a distinct disadvantage.
If MI is to play a role, its risk grading needs to be much steeper as a method of controlling asset bubbles and needs to have counter-cyclical measures in place. That is, if housing is in a bubble as measured by price-income ratio, your chances of qualifying for MI should go down.
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September 26th, 2011 at 5:45 am 36
@Anonymouse: Yes but there should also be a maximum cap since the government is backstopping it.
Look at it another way, you can price everything to perfection but there is only so much loss you can suffer. For example if an event has a 1% chance of happening and you manage to sell an insurance contract that prices the event at 2% chance then you are in theory making a 100% profit on selling the insurance. However it doesn't mean you can sell as much of the insurance (eg. sells coverage for $500 billion) as you want. If the event does happen then you have to pony up as per the insurance contract.
Think life insurance, even if the insurance company can charge a premium for it, it likely wouldn't ever sell a policy to someone worth $10 billion. Why? Because the risk is just too huge to handle. Pricing right is only part of the solution.
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September 26th, 2011 at 5:52 am 37
@space889: "Think life insurance, even if the insurance company can charge a premium for it, it likely wouldn’t ever sell a policy to someone worth $10 billion. Why? Because the risk is just too huge to handle. Pricing right is only part of the solution."
That's true. Even casinos have limits
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September 26th, 2011 at 6:04 am 38
@jesse: hence a maximum absolute cap and maximum multiple of income would do a good job. As price rises, the maximum insurance you can get is not rising if the income doesn't rise as quickly or quicker.
As well, I really think public MI like CHMC should be aimed at helping people who realy needs a helping hand getting into primary residences of their own. Examples like young people or immigrants with good stable job prospects but doesn't have the required down payment or credit history to qualify for a regular mortgage. Lower middle class people that banks traditionally shuns lending mortgages too (eg. the old Vancity commercial from back in the 90s about how banks wouldn't make a mortgage east of Main St), etc.
I know people here like to say how renting is so much cheaper and how they are saving so much $$ for when prices crashes. The fact is for the average family making the average or below average wage and renting with 1 or 2 kids, regardless of how stable their jobs/income might be, saving up the down payments will be a huge challenge. Even if you are making $4K or $5K net take home pay a month, after paying out $1500 for renting a 2 bedroom apartment, childcare, car expenses and food & utilities, it's going to be very hard to save much money for a down payment, especially if you also need to save for retirements, children college, etc. However if housing cost is low enough that you can own a place for around $1500/month then getting a low ratio mortgage with MI can make financial sense and I think this is a perfectly sensible social policy for government to implement.
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September 26th, 2011 at 6:28 am 39
@space889: ….Instead have CHMC provide financing for co-ops, rental apartments, etc……
But if you're buying a condo to rent it out, doesn't that qualify as a 'rental apartment'? Or are you suggestion that big apartment developers should have free access to CMHC $'s but small investors should be barred?
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September 26th, 2011 at 6:38 am 40
@fixie guy: …..His policies enable this indebtedness, it wasn’t an issue before his magic hand. “We raised mortgage terms, lowered qualifications, lowered interest rates and bought all your bundled debt banks threw at us but it’s your fault you took advantage, not ours!” ….
Yes, no matter what, people should never be held responsible for their own actions – it's always somebody else's fault.
Would it be fair to assume that you support those law suits against MacDonalds for making people fat?
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September 26th, 2011 at 6:57 am 41
@31 patriotz Says: Sorry, don't understand your reasoning. As noted ad nauseum, interest rates are only one component. All together they convincingly demonstrate intent on the part of the government. That's the charitable interpretation, the alternative is they were too stupid to realize reducing historical barriers and assisting home purchases on multiple fronts would lead to people taking on debt.
The actions of the fed had predictable results, it's disingenuous to not hold them party to the consequences. Pushers share blame for drug addicts. Both parties are at fault but only one enables it, and it's not the user.
Re: credit cards, risk and rates would be the same on a mortgage that has a backing, retrievable asset as purchases like bar tabs, meals, clothing and vacations? I don't think so.
@40 Anonymous: No.
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September 26th, 2011 at 7:05 am 42
@34 Troll: Wrong, three peas in a pod. If you really believe they're all acting as independent agents in pursuit of what's best for the average citizen I have an east side detached that may interest you. They'll leave generations of damage behind when it's done and change the nature of the country.
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September 26th, 2011 at 7:12 am 43
@fixie guy:
Well to put it more simply, Carney is unelected, the government is. The government has decided to inflate housing prices. The voters (on average) like high house prices and re-elected the government. Carney has no mandate to counter this.
The only thing he has a mandate to do is keep consumer price inflation near 2%. That's all.
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September 26th, 2011 at 7:15 am 44
The curse is gathering power.
Last warning. All cities and municipalities with cemeteries will see the greatest drop in prices and also you will become impotent.
But because I feel somewhat responsible I will service the ladies.(the good looking ones only)
Ravishing Rick's girlfriend need not apply.
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September 26th, 2011 at 7:57 am 45
@patriotz: ….The government has decided to inflate housing prices…..
But don't you keep telling us that nobody has to buy and that it's the buyers that are inflating prices? Even with low interest rates nobody has to buy.
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September 26th, 2011 at 8:19 am 46
New listings piling up today, looking forward to the final numbers.
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September 26th, 2011 at 8:27 am 47
@b5baxter: “…is a move that includes learning the local language.” I agree. I am shocked that so few immigrants can’t speak at least one Coast Salish language.
Thanks for reminding us that we need to pay more tribute to the native heritage of this land.
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September 26th, 2011 at 8:31 am 48
@fixie guy: Go long Tinfoil.
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September 26th, 2011 at 8:44 am 49
@patriotz: "Carney has no mandate to counter this."
Insofar as housing affects economic output, and by extension inflation, in the medium term, he does have ability to counter this. That is, if a government's housing policies lead to economic distortions, the fallout from that is worse than lower GDP growth in the rest of the economy by raising the overnight rate. I think he has basically stated as much in some of his speeches. Which is why part of his mandate is advocating for meaningful policies affecting different areas of the economy so as to produce sustained economic growth.
On that note, Carney's recent comments have been concentrated on business investment and job creation, not mentioning much on the housing sector or household debt accumulation. If a second round of stimulus is unleashed, he will be keeping a tight eye on household debt levels. He may even strongly advocate crimping debt levels further to ensure increased stimulus flows don't end up going through housing.
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September 26th, 2011 at 9:05 am 50
@Anonymous:
Your homework assignment: who decided to get rid of Qaddafi, NATO or the rebels? You can pick only one.
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September 26th, 2011 at 9:41 am 51
@jesse:
"If a second round of stimulus is unleashed, he will be keeping a tight eye on household debt levels. He may even strongly advocate crimping debt levels further to ensure increased stimulus flows don’t end up going through housing."
If there is a second round of stimulus, in the form of easy money, the boys in suspenders will figure a way to ger the free money for speculating.
In the US they were borrowing at 0% from the Fed wicket and lending it to the Government at .25%.
Canada as just a many thieves.
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September 26th, 2011 at 9:41 am 52
sorry about the typos
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September 26th, 2011 at 9:54 am 53
@Keeping An Eye On The Pimps: "the boys in suspenders will figure a way to ger the free money for speculating."
Lots of ways to control debt accumulation. My bet is
ifwhen the government metes out stimulus 2.0 it does so with additional controls on property financing. Canada is near enough to the "point of no return" the government needs to put extra emphasis on clamping personal debt loads.Like or Dislike:
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September 26th, 2011 at 9:56 am 54
@patriotz:
Qaddafi?
Its usual…Rothschilds and ilk.
Worst nightmare = free agent non OPEC countries and a non- usury currency.
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September 26th, 2011 at 10:03 am 55
If you think Carney is a "Wall Street insider" look how pissed off he made BoA's head Jamie Dimon:
Truth is Basel III imposes some difficult constraints on getting the US economy working again. Take this away: chartered banks and central banks have a healthy disrespect for each other. What's particularly fun is that Carney saw the other side first-hand. In many ways I'd rather have nobody else at the helm than a former vampire-sucking-squid insider.
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September 26th, 2011 at 10:03 am 56
BC Place roof leaking…..
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September 26th, 2011 at 10:05 am 57
New Listings 291
Price Changes 171
Sold Listings 150
TI: 17073
http://www.laurenandpaul.ca
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September 26th, 2011 at 10:09 am 58
@jesse: Oops that should be JPM, not BoA. Not the same thing at all…
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September 26th, 2011 at 10:13 am 59
@bubba:
What do you expect from Leak City, what with our fabulous construction standards?
Par for the course.
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September 26th, 2011 at 10:16 am 60
I guess i better bring my umbrella to the game Friday .http://blogs.theprovince.com/2011/09/26/tv-news-report-shows-rain-soaking-interior-of-renovated-bc-place/
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September 26th, 2011 at 10:19 am 61
Just goes to show Vancouver RE just doesnt hold water anymore.
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September 26th, 2011 at 10:30 am 62
Well! Well!
On CTV News at 6, Linda Steele and Tamara Taggart traded info about the Bbbb…BUBBLE in Vancouver real estate!
Reporter Steele set out to interview "those in the know", namely Cameron Muir.
He told her there was, basically NO BUBBLE, and that Vancouver has weathered various fanacial crises rather well…a testament to the stability of the market, in other words.
At any rate, Tamara asked about offshore money and the role it may play in inflating prices.
Said Steele, "The head of the BCREA told me that that was fiction. Only 2-3% is offshore investors."
Hmmm…is the MSM going MAINSTREAM?
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September 26th, 2011 at 10:36 am 63
Yo Raincouver
I love the smell of a good cl*sterfuck in the morning.
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September 26th, 2011 at 10:42 am 64
Two injured when Mercedes slams into Royal Bank
http://www.bclocalnews.com/richmond_southdelta/ri…
Dumb round eyes..learn how to f*ckink drive like 80% of Richmond !!!!.
Upset many Mainland Chinese that were in bank withdrawing honestly earned Yuan to put deposits on Richmond RE !
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September 26th, 2011 at 10:47 am 65
I have never seen such a massive unloading of condos on UBC campus… 150 units, all looking the same.
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September 26th, 2011 at 10:54 am 66
"I have never seen such a massive unloading of condos on UBC campus"
Er, any details?
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September 26th, 2011 at 11:02 am 67
55 jesse Says: 'If you think Carney is a “Wall Street insider”…"
He spent thirteen years at Goldman Sachs, reaching Managing Director level.
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September 26th, 2011 at 11:20 am 68
@painted turtle:
73 new listings this month and 90% are using a Chinese realtor.
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September 26th, 2011 at 11:20 am 69
Anyone trying to find a place to rent? We are looking for a house (not to share) in Coquitlam or Burnaby, that is not a total dump. That screen eliminates pretty much everything. Craigslist is full of tards who will not post pictures of their place but expect me to make an appointment to see it. That would be fine if 99.8% of these places weren't horrific. Also, quite a few offer short-term leases because they intend to sell in the next 6 months or year. WTF? Is there someone out there who loves to move every 6 months?
Question: If a lease obligates the renter to make payments for a fixed period, can the agreement also have a clause which obligates the landlord to hold off on selling until the lease expires?
If not, what else can a guy do to reduce of the risk of getting booted out of a place because the landlord suddenly wants to sell?
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September 26th, 2011 at 11:36 am 70
RE Post – This the last post on yesterday's thread:
Remember the legend of the chinese investors flocking to Vancouver? The myth had also taken on an angle that they had started heading to South Surrey, White Rock! Well, a colleague of my wife who is not a realtor and who is very familiar with the south surrey real estate scene and, who i might add, has lived in White Rock his entire life, stated recently that reports chinese moving to the area were completely fabricated by local realtors. In fact, he went on to state that a local realtor working at homelife b******** realty by the name of J. T#t@s (name withheld because i dont want VCI sued) began spreading the rumor through a network of mortgage brokers and real estate lawyers.
It is obvious that something wasn’t adding up and this would make sense… I will state however, i don’t have any facts on how this person knows (or believes) this and this story could also just be a rumor- disclaimer.
in addition to this, at a family function over the weekend, i spoke with a white rock licensed realtor who works full time as a teacher. He was telling me that his realtor office looked into the rumors of these chinese hoards and found that they were nothing that they could make money on. According to him, the chinese from hong kong or mainland china were buying homes in vancouver-west and even richmond for their kids that were attending school here. It wasn’t a mass stampede according to him, just a few high profile cases and media hype.
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September 26th, 2011 at 11:36 am 71
@Vulture Fun: "can the agreement also have a clause which obligates the landlord to hold off on selling until the lease expires?
Yes. Very uncommon though and no landlord in their right mind would sign it these days. Weird… Vancouver's housing market is almost turning into a sovereign bond market.
"what else can a guy do to reduce of the risk of getting booted out of a place because the landlord suddenly wants to sell?"
Sign a longer-term lease. If you want some guarantees surrounding the future landlord doing his/her job, put in QoS levels like a company would do with an SLA, with stipulated fungible penalties if these terms are violated. Really a lease is a contract like any business agreement, with a few constraints to do with tenancy legislation. Of course you'll be unlikely to get a landlord to agree to this because most landlords aren't businesspeople. But you can always try I guess, maybe offer an extra 5% rent on top to sweeten the pot.
I feel your pain, though. Vancouver real estate is like looking at a Dali painting when calibrating reality.
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September 26th, 2011 at 11:42 am 72
@Vulture Fun:
"Craigslist is full of tards…."
Truer words have never been spoken.
All the amateur landlord fuckwits post on Craigslist. The first thing you should do if you absolutely must use that horrible cesspool of advertising is check off the box that says "has image" to weed out the dirtbags who can't be bothered to post photos.
You do not want to business with these types of lowlifes.
What's your budget and # of bedrooms?
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September 26th, 2011 at 11:58 am 73
"Remember the legend of the chinese investors flocking to Vancouver?"
they said only 2-3% of buyers were from overseas on ctv news at 6 this evening. i believe they were quoting the chief economist of crea.
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September 26th, 2011 at 12:00 pm 74
bunch of trucking liars (the media)
bubba, you know it
nothing is as it appears
that said, looks like van town is about to get hit hard on its real estate bubble, and the roof of bc place, what a boondoggle…still under construction my ass
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September 26th, 2011 at 12:02 pm 75
Since the Golden Ears bridge was opened it has seen 40% less traffic than was forecast.
Also a poll today showed that 66% of commuters would rather take an alternate route than pay the $3 toll on the new Port Mann bridge.
My question: Are people in the suburbs poor or just really cheap?
Follow up question: Was it worth it moving out there just to get a yard?
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September 26th, 2011 at 12:05 pm 76
62, Boombust: CTV went to the real estate board's head pimp…er, economist for the straight goods? Bastards. It'll never end with the MSM. They take too many advertising dollars from the real estate mob to do any real digging.
That reminds me – I finally received a verdict from the CRTC/CBSC over the dual Global complaints I registered many months ago (Cam's helicopter joy ride over White Rock, trumped-up Burnaby condo line-ups). I'd originally fired off quickie letters of complaint, to which Global was required to respond. When it did so, it took the "Who, me?" attitude I knew they'd adopt. At that point, I was given the option of getting a bit more serious by having my complaints sent to a panel for review. So, me being me, of course I accepted.
Long story short…I added a whole bunch more words and filed a high-level complaint. It took several months for a verdict to be rendered. That verdict? Innocent. Figures.
However, I don't feel it was a waste of time. Firstly, Global was forced to address all my issues, deal with all the hassle, and write me a bunch of correspondence. Secondly, the final verdict must have taken the CSBC (with Global's generous assistance) days to put together. It referred to numerous specific incidents and required a ton of work on their part. No matter the verdict, Global knows there are people like me out there who will compel them to work their arse off to somehow validate their lies.
I'm happy I did it. It was (and is) deceitful, harmful bullshit, pure and simple. I wonder…if a hundred more people did that, or a thousand…
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September 26th, 2011 at 12:08 pm 77
@Best place on meth:
I spent a few hours trying to find an alternate to Craigslist, but there seems to be nothing that even comes close. There were a few lame sites that had maybe 15 listings? Not workable. I was initally screening with "has image" but that eliminates a startling amount of listings. Close to 50%? To be fair, we found our current landlords on CL and they've been awesome, so it is possible even if it's not very common.
I'm searching on max price of $2300 and 3 bedroom.
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September 26th, 2011 at 12:15 pm 78
@gordholio:
Thanks for your efforts, Gordholio. The action you took was about five notches above my current level of laziness, so on behalf of other concerned sloths out there, good on ya.
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September 26th, 2011 at 12:19 pm 79
@Vulture Fun:
"I’m searching on max price of $2300 and 3 bedroom."
This is pretty decent for $1850, 4 br in central Coquitlam.
http://vancouver.kijiji.ca/c-real-estate-house-re…
Found it on padmapper.com, it scours several sites and the map is very convenient.
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September 26th, 2011 at 12:23 pm 80
@Best place on meth:
Thanks for the tip. That one's pretty close to what we're looking for.
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September 26th, 2011 at 12:27 pm 81
@gordholio:
Good for you !
I complain that Deb Hope has fat ankles and Squire Barnes and Mike McCarnhole not funny !
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September 26th, 2011 at 12:30 pm 82
@Vulture Fun:
Also this http://www.kensonrealty.com/detail.php?property_i…
Advertised by professionals, not amateurs.
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September 26th, 2011 at 1:04 pm 83
@Anonymous: …..they said only 2-3% of buyers were from overseas on ctv news at 6 this evening. i believe they were quoting the chief economist of crea……
I guess that means Chinese millionaires are not quite as stupid as the local Realtors (with there two week RE courses) would have us believe. Who would have made that call?
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September 26th, 2011 at 1:08 pm 84
@Best place on meth: …..My question: Are people in the suburbs poor or just really cheap?….
Well, I can't speak for the burbs (I live in town) but I was out in that area on the weekend (to Mission) and I took the back way. I'm definitely cheap but the truth is that GEB wouldn't have made my trip any faster. In fact, on the way home, I'm pretty sure that the north side of the Fraser was faster moving than #1 (if Sunday afternoon history is any reference).
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September 26th, 2011 at 1:11 pm 85
@Vulture Fun:
Double-check MLS to confirm house is not also listed for sale. Scumbag landlords do this – I found it particularly true in North Van for some reason. They're bailing out and grabbing a few extra nickels/dimes from people as they go (probably out of desperation from their debt load).
Also, I think it is virtually impossible to stop a landlord selling you place to someone and then having that new owner terminate your lease. The RTA allows new owners to terminate leases (they simply must give you 2 months notice and specific types of written notice). So no matter what, look for a house that has a long history of rental – something bought a long time ago by a stable owner instead of some clown looking to make a quick buck from a quick flip on a house bought at the peak.
Here's the list of reasons a landlord can use to boot you out:
The rental unit will be occupied by the landlord or the landlord’s spouse or a close family member (father, mother, or child) of the
landlord or the landlord’s spouse
A family corporation owns the rental unit and it will be occupied by an individual who owns, or whose close family members
own, all the voting shares
All of the conditions for sale of the rental unit have been satisfied and the purchaser has asked the landlord, in writing, to give
this Notice because the purchaser or a close family member intends in good faith to occupy the rental unit
The landlord has all necessary permits and approvals required by law to demolish the rental unit or repair the rental unit in a
manner that requires the rental unit to be vacant
The landlord intends to convert the residential property to strata lots or a not-for-profit housing cooperative
The landlord intends to convert the rental unit for use by a caretaker, manager or superintendent of the residential property
The landlord has all necessary permits and approvals required by law to convert the rental unit to a non-residential use
The tenant no longer qualifies for the subsidized rental unit
http://www.rto.gov.bc.ca/content/rightsresponsibi…
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September 26th, 2011 at 1:26 pm 86
love how the ctv story interviews Cameron Muir for his perspective…and a realtor…and a couple of buyers..and no one else!!!!
How about getting some perspective here.
Such bullsh@t investigative reporting!
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September 26th, 2011 at 1:34 pm 87
@604x:
Not forget RTA allow non profit babysitting for rich concubines , so get out, basement suite troglodytes, leave some beer in fridge.Take pit bull in heat too!
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September 26th, 2011 at 1:44 pm 88
@ Best Place on Meth
I lived downtown, coal harbour, and in the suburbs. By far the suburbs have been better. I found Down-town was over-rated, inconvenient, and pretentious.
As for bridge usage – let's see how many people would use the burrard street bridge if it was tolled.
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September 26th, 2011 at 1:57 pm 89
@Anonymous:
:they said only 2-3% of buyers were from overseas on ctv news at 6 this evening. i believe they were quoting the chief economist of crea.:
The same old question though, what is an overseas buyer? No citizenship? Then yah that number makes sense. But most of the HAM buying do indeed have citizenship, very new yes, but they have it. So I'm not sure what constitutes overseas.
I don't think the Chinese money is the issue with the bubble. Sure it doesn't help but that's not the main reason.
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September 26th, 2011 at 1:57 pm 90
@Vulture Fun: I'm currently renting from Siegle Properties. They do a great job. Very prompt at fixing problems.
http://www.rentsline.com/company/Siegle-Propertie…
They post on Craigslist too.
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September 26th, 2011 at 2:21 pm 91
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC19fEqR5bA
This is a video worth watching. I share this dream, as twisted as people may find that. My family is situated to profit through a downturn. I'm still protecting certain assets and placing bets in order to make money on this for years to come.
Govern yourselves accordingly.
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September 26th, 2011 at 2:21 pm 92
@604x:
A fixed term lease cannot be terminated before the end of the term, except by mutual agreement between the landlord and tenant. The Landlord can sell the property but the new owner is obliged to fulfil the terms of the contract.
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September 26th, 2011 at 2:26 pm 93
@Best place on meth: well I don't know anyone who commutes from maple ridge to langley or vice versa. So there's that.
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September 26th, 2011 at 2:59 pm 94
Wow, I haven't been on this site for ages. I come back and it's the same old shit here. Bunch of bears crying and waiting. When there aren't any home sales, the bears bring out their pom pom and start waving as if the markets are crashing.
If you foolish bears had half a brain, you wouldn't be renting. There's a reason why I own a house and you don't.
If you think a stock market crash would take down the house markets, you better think twice. The government will just lower interest rates to boost the markets. It's a given fact and I'm waiting for that juicy 1% interest rate on mortgage so I can load up more properties. It's a game of monopoly. Apparently, if you've been renting, you'll continue to rent forever.
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September 26th, 2011 at 3:02 pm 95
This site reminds me of sitting in front of a monopoly board. I own a few yellow and green properties collecting rent while the majority of you bozos decide to own utilities and a couple of railroads. Then on the flick of the dice, you land on "Go To Jail". Just when you're about to get to boardwalk, you land on income tax.
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September 26th, 2011 at 3:13 pm 96
@Bailing in BC
Yes – you're right. A fixed term tenancy can't be broken.
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September 26th, 2011 at 4:21 pm 97
"If not, what else can a guy do to reduce of the risk of getting booted out of a place because the landlord suddenly wants to sell?"
Sign a longer lease, say 2 years. If the guy sells the new owner can't kick you out. Any landlord planning on selling is not going to sign a 2 year lease as it will limit potential buyers.
Regarding places without photos. Get the address through email and use google maps for a street view. The gems are often those with poor ads that nobody bothers to look at. Also it doesn't hurt to look at over priced places and put in an offer. I got my place for $500 below asking rent as I was the only person who looked at it. Just make a case why you are a great tenant and show proof of fair market value.
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September 26th, 2011 at 5:51 pm 98
@Supraboy:
If you really want a game of Monopoly that resembles the Vancouver RE market you need to triple the buy prices for all the properties but keep all rents/fines/utilities etc the same.
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September 26th, 2011 at 8:26 pm 99
@Anonymous:
"“If not, what else can a guy do to reduce of the risk of getting booted out of a place because the landlord suddenly wants to sell?”"
Wanting to sell a property is not just cause for a landlord to terminate a tenancy, period.
After a property is sold the new owner may occupy the property subject to a notice period for month to month tenancy or subject to the end of a fixed term lease.
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September 26th, 2011 at 9:53 pm 100
"Boombust: CTV went to the real estate board’s head pimp…er, economist for the straight goods…"
Oh, I realize all that. It's just the use of the word "BUBBLE" that I found interesting.
I wasn't overly impressed with the sum total of the "reportage".
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September 29th, 2011 at 5:50 pm 101
[...] “A friend (who has a house) told me that in 20 years time Vancouver will be populated by HAM ['Hot Asian Money'], and that the only Caucasians left will be serving them. Does he picture himself living in such a community, being Caucasian himself? Does he intend to sell for 10 million dollars and leave? I thought I did not agree with that vision of the future, until I went to Telus World of Science and noticed bilingual exhibition panels: English/Chinese. Not other language. I will sent them a letter expressing my frustration as a non-Chinese ESL immigrant, since they made my kids feel like secondary citizens.” – painted turtle at vancouvercondo.info 26 Sep 2011 8:06am [...]
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September 30th, 2011 at 1:16 am 102
[...] “A friend (who has a house) told me that in 20 years time Vancouver will be populated by HAM ['Hot Asian Money'], and that the only Caucasians left will be serving them. Does he picture himself living in such a community, being Caucasian himself? Does he intend to sell for 10 million dollars and leave? I thought I did not agree with that vision of the future, until I went to Telus World of Science and noticed bilingual exhibition panels: English/Chinese. Not other language. I will sent them a letter expressing my frustration as a non-Chinese ESL immigrant, since they made my kids feel like secondary citizens.” – painted turtle at vancouvercondo.info 26 Sep 2011 8:06am [...]
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