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Friday Free-for-all! 11-11-11

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209 Comments

It’s that time of the week again, lets do our news round up and open topic weekend discussion thread! Here are a few links to kick off the chat:

–650,000 Canadians couldn’t deal with small mortgage increase
–Metro Van new home prices flat in September
–BNN Video on risks in Canadian Housing
–Realtor says downsize to a condo now!
–Credit created out of thin air
–Coquitlam residents unhappy with highrise plan
–Foreign investors fuel Florida housing boom
–Gloomy outlook for China

So what are you seeing out there? Post your news links, thoughts and anecdotes here and have an excellent weekend!

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jesse

@fixie guy: "Who wrote they shouldn’t be prosecuted?"

Nobody. I'm agreeing with you. I think we can agree immigration policy has its problems with revenue generation at the high end.

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asia man

@ fixie guy and jesse

i agree; the problem is, RevCan is far more brazen with their own than they are dodgy rich immigrants. in the case of China they dont have hope in hell of uncovering the cash, like they would from a proper tax treaty country, like lets say Germany. My point is, if you want a picture into the stupidity its the report on child poverty in the west end as everyone in this blog has pointed out. secondoly its not even a Chinese thing, its a rich person who sees tax evasion as a sport. Canadians need to get rid of these idiots and sort this out so we are all on the same playing field.

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fixie guy

205 jesse Says: "I’m sure there are rich Canadians shirking…"

Straw man. Who wrote they shouldn't be prosecuted? Countries can't control who is born inside its borders but they sure as hell can decide who crosses. All new immigrant applications should be subjected to the same rigorous examination we expect of a working tax system.

Chip's link, as well as the obvious disconnect between median household incomes and new immigration areas with recent transfer of properties (to eliminate counting retirees, etc.) paint a picture that doesn't add up and requires better understanding. That some of those areas are predominantly settled by certain languages isn't a justification to dismiss it with "well, Canadians do to." To me, favoured as the notion seems in popular culture, it's moral cowardice, not egalitarianism.

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jesse

@chip: "He gets an F for critical thinking"

He gets an F for disingenuous logic. This guy knows what's going on, he just cannot say it publicly without forcing the government to do something about it.

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jesse

@fixie guy: "I must have missed the clamouring to reject applications from Chinese scientists, doctors, labourers…"

I'm sure there are rich Canadians shirking the system as much as recent landeds. Again, I see the major issue as contribution and wealth disparity. The last comment from DEFAULT NAME brings the argument downmarket to the mom and pop shop, "labourers" by all accounts.

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chip

@DEFAULT NAMEe:

"You obviously didn’t read your own link…"

Actually, I did. Undeclared income doesn't come up. Instead, the MLA concludes that to address WV's higher than average poverty rate it is necessary to have 'enhanced immigration' and more govt spending on poverty.

His cognitive dissonance is so extreme that this is how he ends the 92 page report:

"We repeat our bias to aim a greater share of spending in the direction of single moms and immigrants."

So, to address WV's high poverty rate the first thing he flags is single moms, yet earlier in the report he mentions that WV has a much lower rate of single moms at 8% than the provincial average of 12%.

He gets an F for critical thinking.

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fixie guy

202 jesse: "What I see on this blog is that immigration policy and ethnic tensions are conflated and it distracts debate."

Ethnic or business cultural? I must have missed the clamouring to reject applications from Chinese scientists, doctors, labourers….

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jesse

@fixie guy: What I see on this blog is that immigration policy and ethnic tensions are conflated and it distracts debate. The problem as I see it is about wealth and contribution to Canada and most immigrants I know, from all parts of the world, agree with this. Mixing in and accepting ethnic divides distracts from the root causes and makes proper policy direction more difficult.

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Hu You Fullin

hit the nerve, patriotz?

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patriotz

@Hu You Fullin:

Has it occurred to you that it is incredibly lame to respond to Canadians talking about corruption in China by bringing up examples from the US? It's a different country from Canada you know.

Now things aren't perfect here and you could bring up examples (starting with Virk and Basi, who are peanut league by Chinese standards), but not bothering to do so tells us that you are just too damn lazy.

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Hu You Fullin

@fixie guy

"It’s always been about the government. They control immigration policy. "

and who controls the government? Corporations.

Immigration was always about supporting the ponzi scheme that our health and pension systems are and suppressing the wages of the labour.

Cui Bono? Corporatocracy.

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Hu You Fullin

@DEFAULT NAME

"2 billion a year is spent lobbying congress. That is almost 4 million per year per member. Insider trading laws do not apply to them even when they are directly involved in the policy. It is the most corrupt system there is."

and our caucasian VCI audience is shocked. shocked! It should only happen in 3rd world countries we have been told by Peter Mensbridge.

but you know what is interesting is that you could clearly see how political elite is in the pockets of the financial elite. The so called "Rule of Law" goes like this:"We (financial elite) will give you crumbs (insider trades) and you (political elite) will write favorable laws for us (big business)

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fixie guy

@196 jesse: Please stop painting all forum members with the same brush, it only incites the nitwits. It's always been about the government. They control immigration policy. To say it for the millionth time, it's not about the Chinese race, it's about a particular economic class the morons in charge court because the $ee them as $pecial based on their bank account$ alone without thought to how they benefit Canadian society.

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jesse

@DEFAULT NAME: "I’m not sure how they get away with this kind of business practice."

You are disingenuous with the "Chinese-owned" comment. Is that somehow relevant? I frequent a non-Chinese-owned place that hits cancel before they put the money in the till.

What I see on this site are a bunch of disenfranchised people who have given up on their government and are turning to the next best thing in their minds: finding a scapegoat. The real problem is your government, not those who abuse a system arguably tailored to be abused.

PS: funny thing. On my iPhone "DEFAULT NAME" show up as "Anonymous" and "DEFAULT NAMe" shows up as "Anonymouse". Just saying, Pope, seems something's buggered in your hash. My bet is the preview feature.

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asia man

i guess everyone ignored my "peace out" comment, so I am going to throw in here. I have lived in asia 18 years and canada 27, born in canada so the first ten I dont remember. I have lived mostly in Japan but have been all over this place. the asian family thing is frankly a load, theres lots of variety, its not an honor thing, many families take care fo their extended family members with alot of bitterness. news flash; people are people all over they are no better or worse than us. the rich ones are usually pricks, just like the white canadian ones; big surpise. but I would like to say something here. if you think normal asian canadians who arent foreign millonaires arent as pissed as you are about the prices, then think again. bottom line… Read more »

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jesse

@patriotz: "Property taxes are high in Texas"

I think it was Dave who pointed out that property taxes in Texas aren't necessarily that much higher — it varies more from area to area than in BC. Land values in their metros are less, though, plus they have some restriction-ish things related to lending and lower building costs due to cheap labour.

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jesse

@patriotz: "Dropping development fees would create a windfall for developers."

Ah but you see by lowering developer costs that means more land becomes buildable, thus increasing supply. Supply supply supply! Of course landowners know this and will ask more but whatever, why ruin a good argument with critical thought.

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patriotz

@rp1: Property taxes are high in Texas because there is no state income tax and schools, etc. are largely funded from property taxes alone. Cities in BC levy property taxes to pay for city spending, period. The CoV could shift the property tax burden from commercial to residential but that would simply create a windfall for speculative owners of commercial property. Dropping development fees would create a windfall for developers. It would not make sale prices lower because they are always determined by what buyers and willing and able to pay. I agree that more revenue should be obtained from property taxes but that's a policy that has to be implemented at the provincial level. You might remember that Glen Clark made a move to do just that. What was the reaction? What is sad and ironic is that you… Read more »

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rp1

@patriotz: "What do you mean? Were CoV policies any different a decade ago when prices were half as much? Does Surrey have the same policies? Regina? Why are prices inflated there too?" Maybe not, but bad policy will have worse effects over time. Credit causes the demand shock, but city policies dictate both the response in supply and the level of speculative demand. HIgher property taxes would reduce speculation and provide a stable tax base. Instead, we inflate fees on development and use that to fund the city. That is an unhealthy dynamic that amplifies price shocks on the way up and the revenue shocks on the way down. In the US, Houston has high property taxes and liberal development policies. It came through the bubble much better than places with low property taxes and restrictive policies. I know too… Read more »

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patriotz

@rp1:

"This city has created an intractable problem for its residents,"

What do you mean? Were CoV policies any different a decade ago when prices were half as much? Does Surrey have the same policies? Regina? Why are prices inflated there too?

You heard the same thing south of the border during the bubble – that city planning policies were responsible for the bubble. Well you know what the real cause was. It's the same here.

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rp1

@southseacompany: "Vancouver’s chief planner, Brent Toderian, says suck it up and learn to enjoy renting” Peter Ladner, Province, Nov13/11."

I.e. leave, because Vancouver's rental stock is a big part of what drives families to buy detached homes. The City of Vancouver is obviously not going to address the problem any time soon. Who is going to destroy their family's quality of life to live in "the best place on earth" ? Move to the suburbs and never see your kids? Going to Surrey or Langley will not get you a significant reduction in price. This city has created an intractable problem for its residents, and here we have this sadist, whose job it is to prevent these issues, practically gloating about the misery he inflicts. The best place on earth (for sadists).

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Anonymous

@Capo:

"Another day, another corruption American style"

2 billion a year is spent lobbying congress. That is almost 4 million per year per member. Insider trading laws do not apply to them even when they are directly involved in the policy. It is the most corrupt system there is.

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Anonymous

@southseacompany:

” Vancouver’s chief planner, Brent Toderian, says suck it up and learn to enjoy renting” Peter Ladner, Province, Nov13/11.

Nice to know that the head of Van City’s planning decisions has such a (Cam) good attitude."

If most people took his advice the bubble would deflate. Outside of the federal government changing CMHC policy or interest rates increasing it is the only thing that can deflate the bubble – stop buying. I wish politicians had the brains or the balls to offer the same.

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Anonymous

@The Leak:

'I do not believe the stock market will crash. Look up “Plunge Protection Team”'

Where were they in 2008? I seem to remember a little blip to the downside.

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Anonymous

@chip:

You and truthseeker need to get together to present your case to the CRA. I am sure they will be able to hold back the laughter better than me. Make sure to remove your tin foil hats before you make the presentation.

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