End of the year Free-for-all!
It’s not only that time of the week, it’s that time of the year. The end is upon us. Let’s bid a farewell to 2011 and say hello to 2012. This is our regular end of the week news round up and open topic thread, hope you’ve all had a terrific year and have an even better New Year.
-We’ll add story links here later.
What are you seeing out there as the year draws to a close? Post your news links, thoughts and anecdotes here and have an excellent weekend!
December 29th, 2011 at 4:43 pm 1
Sorry for the repost – I am wondering if anyone has any insight into the last part of my post. In my mind the faster things fall apart the less painful it will be to get back to developing the "real" economy. Can the pain be avoided/mitigated for the spectators (non-participants) of this RE gong-show?
———————————–
Recently I had an informal talk with a friend who works at one of the big Canadian banks. I asked him if he noticed any changes in the mortgage business. He said it’s still going strong.
Interestingly though he also mentioned that he noticed an interesting phenomenon. Based on his day to day readings of a range of clients mortgages it seems individuals with mortgages about as high as $300k were actually making progress towards paying the principal. However if the mortgage was $600k or higher (most of the time this resulted from clients rolling in other kind of debt into their mortgage payments) the principal appears to have remained at the same level for the last 2-3 years. He noted that these $600k+ clients appear to be paying the principal over the years but after a while they ask that some line of credit with $30k-60k on it be rolled in the mortgage which bumps the principal back to previous years’ values.
I also asked what would happen if the clients can’t pay… does the bank take the property into foreclosure? The way he answered caught me a little off guard. It felt like he never quiet thought the process through. He said that the bank will work quiet hard to “help” the client continue paying (I’m not sure if this meant they’ll lower the monthly payment). He seemed to think that the foreclosure procedure was the solution of last resort.
As much as it hurts me I feel that the banks will use a good amount of their “power” (which includes parts of the money I have deposited with them) to prevent other clients of theirs (which are probably becoming an important minority) from becoming insolvent…
I predict that whatever the return to normal is it will be painful for everyone.
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December 29th, 2011 at 5:06 pm 2
"CMHC issues warning on high household debt"
"Crack dealer warns you all on crack"
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December 29th, 2011 at 5:08 pm 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpVU6w_7fBk
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December 29th, 2011 at 6:28 pm 4
@0×13
Not sure if this will answer your question but my mother works for one of the big five banks…and has done so for the last 35 years. She told me that back in the eighties, when RE was crumbling and interest rates soared, her employer released an internal memo instructing its branch employees to renegotiate any clients that tried to hand in their house keys and walk away as the bank was not in the business of selling homes but rather of selling financial services.
On another note, she has also told me on several occasions recently that there seams to be a large increase in NSF charges for "everyday" items like hydro and phone services. I imagine that this is probably an important indicator of where the economy is sitting.
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December 29th, 2011 at 8:14 pm 5
@T:
"She told me that back in the eighties, when RE was crumbling and interest rates soared, her employer released an internal memo instructing its branch employees to renegotiate any clients that tried to hand in their house keys and walk away as the bank was not in the business of selling homes but rather of selling financial services."
And yet RE prices went from nominal top to nominal bottom in less than two years.
Bailing the Titanic with champagne buckets. And remember there are way, way, way more people today who bought at ridiculous prices and are over their heads in debt than there were in the 80's.
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December 29th, 2011 at 10:51 pm 6
I wish I could find the picture online but pick up the Toronto Star today and flip to the Business section. I have never seen anything like this before. The headline claims 2011 to have been the year of the high rise and the image is of a tower taking up a good 20% of the page both above and below the fold… BUT what stands out is that there is a giant bubble taking up 20% of above the fold space floating over the top headline (on RIM), the section title, and apparently crashing into the tower and about to pop. The article doesn't mention much of popping (just the last two paragraphs with the summary of multiple analyst fears) but the image is powerful and surprising.
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December 29th, 2011 at 11:47 pm 7
http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1108666–…
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December 29th, 2011 at 11:58 pm 8
$1200.00 a month rent for 30 years is $432,000..and that's cheap for a 2 bedroom just about anywhere.I know you people are VERY concerned about Canadians debt..losing sleep over it and all but you should just chill out and try and enjoy yourselves..things are good in this Country..Not perfect but good.
http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/12/19/on-top-of-the-…
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December 30th, 2011 at 12:29 am 9
@ 0×13:
—
I also asked what would happen if the clients can’t pay… does the bank take the property into foreclosure? The way he answered caught me a little off guard. It felt like he never quiet thought the process through. He said that the bank will work quiet hard to “help” the client continue paying (I’m not sure if this meant they’ll lower the monthly payment). He seemed to think that the foreclosure procedure was the solution of last resort.
===
Of course it's the solution of last resort. Foreclosure is a royal pain for the bank – carrying costs before a new buyer is found, court proceedings, usually lower price as many buyers aren't interested in foreclosures, etc. Much better to have the client slave for them & pay interest-only forever…
Where does this stop? I am guessing when there's no equity left, either by constant HELOC additions or when it becomes impossible to hide that the perceived value is not the same as what the actual market will pay. E.g. a few comparables selling for a lot less than the owner/bank think they should sell for…
ps Credit cards will also "work hard" to keep the client paying & avoid bankruptcy
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December 30th, 2011 at 12:57 am 10
@T: The other thing is that as long as the borrow is paying, the bank don't have to recognize any loss or hike its loan loss provision. Given the current environment of live or die by not just meeting but beating whisper quarterly numbers, I think banks will do everything they can to delay recognizing any losses.
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December 30th, 2011 at 1:37 am 11
@patriotz:
In over their heads? No. Greater amount of debt? Yes.
There was a huge amount of speculation and leveraged purchasing in the prior year to the crash in the early 1980's. Prices doubled in a very short period of time. Of course, prices were going to correct when interest rates soared. It killed all the speculators and levered investors. If anything, it's amazing that prices didn't correct more at that time.
None of the above is relevant to our current situation. We don't have speculation. We don't have that positive feedback cycle of rising prices allowing greater and greater amounts of leverage. Prices are flat. People aren't flipping. Interest rates aren't going to spike up.
Think about it. If your theory was correct, we would have had the crash 3 years ago.
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December 30th, 2011 at 1:41 am 12
end of 2011 = same posters = same contents for the past many years! The only new thing is the one of them moved to Ottawa!
By the way, this is the end, so happy new year!
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December 30th, 2011 at 1:52 am 13
11 Dave Says:"None of the above is relevant to our current situation. We don’t have speculation. We don’t have that positive feedback cycle of rising prices allowing greater and greater amounts of leverage. Prices are flat. People aren’t flipping. Interest rates aren’t going to spike up."
^Demonstration by adamant proclamation.
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December 30th, 2011 at 1:57 am 14
@0×13:
"I also asked what would happen if the clients can’t pay… does the bank take the property into foreclosure? The way he answered caught me a little off guard. It felt like he never quiet thought the process through"
Economics is often referred to as the "dismal science", but really is it any different than organized religion? Conversations of this sort can go so far, as any questioning of the basic precepts your friend believes are tantamount to atheism.
You hear the words "market confidence" often used by talking heads in connection with respect to an economies health, but aren't we talking about belief?
Start with a system of belief and there is no shortage of corroborating evidence to support your claim? Can you tell I just finished reading Michael Lewis' new book "Boomerang"? A fun read, but I digress…
Anyway, whenever I find myself in conversation with a true believer of anything be it structured finance or religion, I always ask the same question:
"Do you ever consider the opposite to be true?"
The answer is usually a quizzical expression and tart "No", but occasionally the answer is "yes", and then the conversation gets interesting…
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December 30th, 2011 at 2:05 am 15
Too funny..Any Optimistic posts disappear.You guys sure you're not Americans?
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/44253/canadians-h…
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December 30th, 2011 at 2:16 am 16
It always amazes me how the government CMHC provided mortgage insurance for the 'land' component of real estate. They should have focused only on the 'building' component. As land has very little economic rent except if you want to grow some vegetables, get a goat to eat the grass, have some chickens. Mass government interference in the free market inflated the land component and gave Canada $1 trillion worth of insured cardboard houses that sit on for the most part land with minimal economic rent. These cardboard houses have at best 30 to 40 years of economic life – houses consisting of simulated plastic, white doors that weigh three pounds, cheap phony brass purchased from box stores, drywall of which all is assembled in 1 to 2 months. Concrete condo towers are a whole another story of fogged windows to come.
Long gone are the interior solid wood oak doors that weigh 60 pounds, quality built houses of stone, concrete, solid lumber beams. Now we have cardboard sitting on inflated land component. One only has to look at the success of Fannie & Freddie in the U.S. in their housing experiment. Better yet, look at the former Soviets with government interference in the water ways to the Aral Sea. Biggest environmental calamity the world has seen. Canada is on the verge of a massive economic Cardboard housing crisis with smart entrepreneurs dressed like royalty trying to sell you photocopy flooring products during hockey games.
Hopefully 2012 will be the year of the big cleanse to change our thinking on real estate back to better built houses, 90% lower 'land' component values. They build better quality houses in Baghdad then they do in most parts of suburb Canada.
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December 30th, 2011 at 2:29 am 17
@0×13:
I asked my buddy at BMO how things were going on the mortgage front and he said historically mortgage lending has been the largest income growth source for the bank however 3Q 2011 was different in that the mortgage business was ranked 4th for growth. Investment banking was at the top.
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December 30th, 2011 at 5:05 am 18
[BC will require English proficiency testing for all Provincial Sponsored immigrants]
– Breaking news from Singtao Chinese newspaper
"Traditionally PNP (Provincial Nominee Program) immigrants do not need to meet a standardized English proficiency test, thus PNP had become a very popular route of immigration"
"Starting June 2012, BC will now require proof of English proficiency, be it TOEFL, IELTS, or CELPIP; BC will also require proof of employment of the last 10 years"
"If English proficiency is not met, the employer can consider sending the applicant for 6 months of language school"
<a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2 Fwww.westca.com%2FNews%2Farticle%2Fsid%3D216982%2Flang%3Dschinese.html” target=”_blank”>http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&s…” target=”_blank”>Fwww.westca.com%2FNews%2Farticle%2Fsid%3D216982%2Flang%3Dschinese.html
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December 30th, 2011 at 5:20 am 19
I Thought We Ballin'!
http://realestateagentsincars.tumblr.com/post/148…
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December 30th, 2011 at 6:24 am 20
2012 Prediction: Investor will realized the housing market had peaked and are turning, panic dumping of their real estate investment and flooded the market with inventories. Sales and prices will drop as no one will buy into a dropping market. Flaherty and Carney watches helplessly on the sideline as the economy tanks and they can not drop interest rate any lower!
2012 will be the Year of the Housing Bears.
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December 30th, 2011 at 7:53 am 21
@madashell….Your typical Vancouver Condo contributor…Praying the "economy tanks" to get "The Crash" they've been calling for since 2004. How this benefits anyone but ultra rich housing speculators I'll never know.The wealthy love it when things Crash because they get to own way more of everything.
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December 30th, 2011 at 8:42 am 22
Canadian Banks in 2004 had $368 billion in outstanding mortgages, now it is over $1 trillion.
Mortgage rates have fallen 50% since 2004 along with an extensive loosening of credit qualifications with a period of time experiencing zero down, 40 year amm, interest only, stated income, goes on and on.
Here is a house built in 1610.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmshurst_Manor
This house likely has another 500 years plus of economic life not like the CMHC guaranteed cracker jack cardboard special house that is now our new national bird in Canada.
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December 30th, 2011 at 9:39 am 23
Well so much for "5000 years of Chinese culture"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-163674…
"China says about 44,000 ancient ruins, temples and other cultural sites have disappeared.
That's the conclusion of the country's first heritage census for more than 20 years…
Liu Xiaohe, deputy director of the survey, told state media that economic construction was the most important reason for the damage to cultural relics…
Two years ago a Qin Dynasty part of the Great Wall was said to have been damaged by miners who knocked holes in it while prospecting for gold."
Nice to know that plain greed can be just as destructive as Mao's ideology.
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December 30th, 2011 at 9:46 am 24
Small (3 minutes) interview with Schiller.
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2011/12/23/…
This is actually pretty good for a 3 minutes long piece. The guy can almost sum what was said the last 7 years on this blog in 3:23.
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December 30th, 2011 at 10:30 am 25
@patriotz:
Try visiting Rome sometime and see how some of their historical sites have been "preserved" with concrete, electric lighting, and garbage bins bolted to the walls. Not everything we build is meant to be kept for eternity, sometimes we need to give up the nostalgia to make progress.
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December 30th, 2011 at 10:36 am 26
@patriotz: @patriotz:
Totally unrelated to this website, the topic or discussion. I guess your greed in moving to a cheaper place, which took precedence over decades of relationships with friends and family in Vancouver, if you even had any, didn't help sooth your racist tendencies. Actually I'm quite sure you don't have any friends as I've rarely seen you agree with someone without nitpicking the crap out of what they've said.
How's the weather out there btw? Hope you can stop being such a douche and make some friends in the New Year.
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December 30th, 2011 at 10:48 am 27
this person patriotz is too busy for nonsense here at vci that he cant afford ottawa now. back to yvr mom's basement very soon.
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December 30th, 2011 at 12:56 pm 28
@patriotz:
>>>Well so much for “5000 years of Chinese culture”<<<
No big loss, they're replacing all those outdated relics with some really cool new stuff.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/china%E2%80%99s-des…
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December 30th, 2011 at 1:31 pm 29
@DonLogan: "You hear the words “market confidence” often used by talking heads in connection with respect to an economies health, but aren’t we talking about belief?"
When reading the business section, I find it helpful to make the following word substitutions:
stocks = bullshit
investors = fools
confidence = stupidity
In other news, bullshit rose 2% today, as fools bet on the return of stupidity.
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December 30th, 2011 at 1:34 pm 30
Do you have an app to remind me to correctly date my cheques?
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December 31st, 2011 at 1:09 am 31
@DEFAULT NAMEe: Right, because installing electric lighting on the Coliseum is equivalent to punching holes in the Great Wall. Give it a rest with your lame contrarian routine, honestly.
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December 31st, 2011 at 1:40 am 32
Last daily data for 2011 from our friend Larry.
Let the bubble begin to hiss away and all the best for 2012 everyone… (except for recent buyers.. you're screwed)
Vancouver All Areas*
New Listings -43
Back On Market Listings – 1
Price Changes – 19
Sold Listings – 43
*Attached & Detached – Date: 12/30/2011 Time: 00:01 Pacific YatterMatters.com:
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December 31st, 2011 at 6:10 am 33
@DEFAULT NAMEe:
It's not just about a few holes in the Great Wall, but the loss of heritage sites across China, and the guy who's in a flap is the deputy director of the cultural heritage deparment in China as the article plainly points out.
You're talking as though the issue had been invented by foreigners rather than just being reported by them.
What we're taking a dig at is the orgy of greed from top to bottom in China which pays no respect either to traditional Chinese values or more modern concepts of human rights.
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December 31st, 2011 at 8:06 am 34
@patriotz:
I see it as no worse than the orgy of greed that is fracking, oil sands, destruction of the Boreal forest, Kyoto withdrawal, or seal culling.
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December 31st, 2011 at 8:22 am 35
@DEFAULT NAMEe:
But if anyone criticized those things on this board you wouldn't have self-styled defenders of Western civilization reply trying to trivialize them. In particular, nobody would try to defend environmental malpractice – or any kind of bad governance – in Canada on the grounds that China is worse.
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December 31st, 2011 at 8:54 am 36
NYE 2011 Total Inventory: 12069
DEC 31st…
2010: 10739
2009: 9880
2008: 16188
2007: 9034
I hope everyone here has a killer NYE!!
For me personally this spring will determine whether or not I buy a house. If things crack up, I will sit tight, if nothing happens and the global economy improves I might buy. I am sick to death of renting a crap house for 3k per month!!! Lol
http://www.laurenandpaul.ca
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December 31st, 2011 at 10:02 am 37
@Elvince:
So in that video Robert Shiller says at the end that buying a home is not a good idea. Yet below is a quote from his recent piece for the new york times. This guy, just like all other "economists" associated with academia, is just full of it. What a bunch of monkeys living in some perverted imagined world…
"Homeownership fosters citizenship, builds stronger families and communities, encourages active participation in the economy and, ultimately, bolsters economic confidence."
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December 31st, 2011 at 10:03 am 38
@patriotz: "In particular, nobody would try to defend environmental malpractice – or any kind of bad governance – in Canada on the grounds that China is worse."
Then I refer you to BPOM's post of June 6th, 2011 at 3:29 pm :
"Culling” is the operative word, there’s 6 million seals in Canada. No danger we run out of them anytime soon. Meanwhile, thanks to these pricks and their desire to appear “affluent”, sharks are being decimated."
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December 31st, 2011 at 10:54 am 39
Fuck the Seals..Rats of the Ocean.
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December 31st, 2011 at 11:10 am 40
@paulb.:
" I am sick to death of renting a crap house for 3k per month!!!"
Paul, I sympathize, but at the same time I have to ask, what is your plan: to buy a crap house for 6K per month, or to buy a tiny condo for 3K per month?
It's not like there is an option where you get to buy a nice house here for 3K a month.
Surely if you are not satisfied with the price and quality of the rental stock in Vancouver, you are going to be infinitely less satisfied with the price and quality of the purchasable stock.
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December 31st, 2011 at 11:40 am 41
well, you have been screwed since the start of the run up already, specialfx3000. it’s sucked to be you.
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December 31st, 2011 at 12:40 pm 42
Wow..Bunch of renters who will never buy(because Real Estate is a horrible investment) wishing misery on hardworking homeowners…Real stand up bunch.
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December 31st, 2011 at 1:09 pm 43
@cgh:
Much of the Great Wall that you see in photos has been heavily restored. Other parts of it are just unidentifiable piles of rocks or mud. You’ve no idea what sort of hole was ‘punched’ or where, you’re just in a flap because it’s an excuse to have yet another dig at China.
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December 31st, 2011 at 2:13 pm 44
3 more days until listings starting flooding in and inventory numbers balloon.
Happy New Year!
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December 31st, 2011 at 2:16 pm 45
The funny thing is the more anti-China stuff that gets posted only strengthens the Bullish argument for Vancouver Real Estate…such is the level of intelligence displayed by the “bears” on this site…keep up the good work.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204394804577011760523331438.html
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December 31st, 2011 at 2:30 pm 46
@Manalive: "Fuck the Seals."
Do you think you can hold on to one long enough?
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December 31st, 2011 at 2:58 pm 47
Victoria’s bubble popping is really coming along nicely.
The average house owner is seeing their value drop by $230 a day, total listings are much higher than last year (just like Vancouver), 2011 sales were horrible – even worse than 2008 and MOI sits at 12.3 compared to 9.3 a year ago.
Happy New Years, Victoria!
http://househuntvictoria.blogspot.com/2011/12/2012.html
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December 31st, 2011 at 3:44 pm 48
Victoria is not Vancouver.
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Forecast+Modest+growth+area+real+estate+prices+2012+CMHC/5927558/story.html
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December 31st, 2011 at 4:29 pm 49
Maybe this will be a little easier to understand…
http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/WO-AH618A_CFLEE_G_20111101182405.jpg
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December 31st, 2011 at 5:01 pm 50
@Paul B, me too. I will contact you to help me when I do.
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December 31st, 2011 at 5:38 pm 51
From my earlier post…”35,000 to 40,000 people moving here annually going forward”…
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December 31st, 2011 at 6:11 pm 52
@DEFAULT NAMEe:
Kyoto and other environmental ideas are all complete BS. The only way to change the balance between humans and environment is to reduce the number of humans on the planet. Very basic math will tell you that there are absolutely no other solutions. Every other “environmental” idea is coming from fools or is designed to fool fools.
Regardning China’s state of affairs- they are very screwed in terms of how they treat each other. I recommend that you don’t watch this video- I went to bed crying the night I saw it: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzEzMzMyMDQw.html
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December 31st, 2011 at 6:31 pm 53
@patriotz:
Keep telling yourself how you are humanitarian, speaking out against the greed of the Chinese. In reality you and the other China bashers, like BPOM are just losers that missed the real estate gravy train. Your train of thought is purely self centered and is only trying to soothe your own failure.
Everyone who bought into this bubble will get what they deserve. Same as all those such as yourself, who couldn’t see an opportunity when the bubble started. Now you’re freezing your ass off in an inferior city , yet still coming here in your bitterness. BPOM is boiling in rage as the dim sum crowd stomps over his poor ass.
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December 31st, 2011 at 7:44 pm 54
Well, have been sitting tight for many years. Other provinces looking better day by day.
I am very patient, but now researching what I can get out of other provinces as this one is fcked.
I have been fighting to keep every penny in my pocket, whether shopping or renting or using a car. It has paid off for me. I am not “united way” to the realtors or the industry. I live by the motto, if they want too much, they get nothing, in other words, if you want to do a business deal with me, you better have something to bring to the table.
I am not buying cheap crap for a tonne of money, sorry, you have under estimated me. Yeah, I dont look like a hawtie, but guess what, I have something to my name and you (RE) aint getting a penny of it.
Eat that!
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December 31st, 2011 at 8:22 pm 55
Well 2012 is here and the worst that can happen is that my rent will go up by 3.1%, which is less than the cost of a tank of gas.
Happy New Year everyone!
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January 1st, 2012 at 12:19 am 56
[...] am and is filed under open topic. You can follow any responses to this entry through the –>RSS 2.0 comments [...]
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January 1st, 2012 at 12:38 am 57
in ottawa? only 3.1%? are you employed yet?
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January 1st, 2012 at 2:16 am 58
paulb,
dont buy here. Detroit or Phoenix is much cheaper to buy.
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January 1st, 2012 at 2:22 am 59
Dear Vancouver,
Happy new year!
I've lived here most of my life, I'm 32, married now and about the right age to buy a home and start a family.
My wife and I have been saving up for a nice 2 bedroom apartment for several years. We've looked at the prices and it seems too risky in terms of ending up "house poor". We've been waiting and waiting for anything to change in Vancouver, but nothing has happened!
At the current state of things, after doing some calculations we envisioned a situation where we would be both forced to work (dual income) and drop our future children into daycare in order to make ends meet. Most likely we will make the payments just fine but without any retirement savings no extras for vacation, etc. Vancouver, this sounds pretty stressful to us.
So after much deliberation, we decided to leave you and move to Texas where my salary would be double and our living expenses would be less than half.
In Texas we would be able to afford a large home and still save plenty for vacation/retirement/etc and this is on only one income!!
My commute is only a 5 minute drive, the people are so friendly, it feels like the same level of friendliness as being at church everywhere I go.
The weather is great, I don't see any junkies, at worst there is a homeless person with a sign by the highway asking for change.
I thank you Vancouver for your past accomplishments, your scenery, your skytrain lines and abundance of sushi restaurants.
Unfortunately at this time I will not be needing your services and wish you farewell.
Sincerely,
A former Vancouver resident (for more than 28 years!)
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January 1st, 2012 at 2:29 am 60
people are leaving vancouver in drove. i saw hundred of thousands left the city by busload, trainload, and seabus load last night.
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January 1st, 2012 at 3:35 am 61
Ah…another year and another year of failed predictions to come for the bears…
I always love January…its the start of the delusional bear "wishful thinking" season…
January rolls around, and out comes the threat to prices from a blossoming inventory; soon, after no price declines, we move into Spring, with the criticism of stupid buyers as bears watch strong sales and inching up prices; then comes summer, with declining inventory, and wails of dirty asian monty and cheap money; then comes fall with increasing inventory, but no price declines despite "poor" sales; then comes the next year…
Ah, repeat….for the 7th year of failed predictions for some of you (circa 2005)
You have one life to live bears…
Maybe its time to take a page out of "formervancouverresident"'s play book, and move on…
This city is for those with equity after not "sitting on the sidelines " for almost a decade and those rich Asians that have no problem laundering their ill-gotten gains here.
Face it, the federal government has abandoned you; your provincial government has abandoned you; and your local government has abandoned you. Everyone wants the RE gravy train to continue and measures will, and have been taken, to keep the party going. Nobody cares about a small, silent minority of prudent renters…you are invisible.
Your family and friends all question your intelligence for sitting on the sidelines, and quietly whisper "I wish they would just do the right thing, and settle down, and buy a place"…
Time to move on boys and girls…
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January 1st, 2012 at 3:46 am 62
Oh wow, the trolls are going cracked here lately. I hope they're getting double time and a half for the holidays.
Found this commentary about the new strata rules in my local paper:
For Tri-Cities realtor John Grasty, these new regulations are a welcome change.
"My view is that it's long overdue. I'm hoping that it will be a wake-up call for so many of the self-managed buildings. There are just far too many of them who think that the goal is to keep the management fee as low as they possibly can. It's kept artificially low," Grasty said.
"What they tend to forget is that whether you live in a single detached home or whether you live in multifamily, there's a cost to maintain it. The thing about living in a condo is that you don't have to do it yourself, so you've got a better quality of life. It's being done professionally when it needs to be done. That's what I think this legislation is all about – trying to make sure the buildings are well maintained, both in the short term and the long term now."
The new regulations will allow strata owners and potential buyers to see what work is needed in the future so they can plan accordingly, he added.
"There are so few people who know what's going on. They're just thinking that someone's looking after their best interest. It's a fallacy for condo owners to think they can just forget about these types of things. They've got to be aware of the workings of
the corporation," Grasty said.
"The other thing is they made the reporting requirement standard, so it should be fairly easy for people to decipher."
Read more: http://www.thenownews.com/technology/Changes+stra…
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January 1st, 2012 at 3:53 am 63
Scam Good has also been busy lately, finding new ways to pimp BC real estate in China. His own listing service, eh, I wonder if he'll get sued by the realwhores:
From his "Linked in" page:
"Founder
PLS.ca
December 2011 – Present (2 months) Vancouver, Canada Area
PLS.ca is an alternative to MLS.ca and offers owners of world class homes the opportunity to privately sell to international buyers without a sign out front, open houses or nosy neighbours even knowing the home is for sale."
http://pls.ca/
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January 1st, 2012 at 4:08 am 64
are you still jealous at your rich sister, Patiently Waiting? opss, I mean, patiently renting?
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January 1st, 2012 at 4:21 am 65
@DEFAULT NAME: I knew you'd say that. Your schtick needs a reworking.
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January 1st, 2012 at 4:25 am 66
lesson learned, dont trash your family lives in the internet world. you never know, i could be your rich sister.
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January 1st, 2012 at 4:32 am 67
@moveon…whether people buy or rent it's a big expense.Real Estate has crashed in the States but people still have to pay $1200.00 a month or whatever to live(In the major urban centers)..Not sure why these people care what people choose to spend their money on…it's pathetic.
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January 1st, 2012 at 4:40 am 68
@DEFAULT NAME: No, you're just a sad, lonely man, whoever you are. Look outside, its a nice day.
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January 1st, 2012 at 5:14 am 69
Move On Says:"Face it, the federal government has abandoned you; your provincial government has abandoned you; and your local government has abandoned you. Everyone wants the RE gravy train to continue and measures will, and have been taken, to keep the party going."
And you cheer this? The fact that the scenario you outline is impossible to maintain forever is irrelevant because you're obviously congenitally incapable of seeing past the Port Mann. The globe is strewn with the wreckage of similar government behaviour. People like you are the problem. Enjoy cheering policies certain to wreck this country, dipshit.
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January 1st, 2012 at 5:55 am 70
A nice way to start the year from Larry Yatter and Fish
http://fishyre.blogspot.com/2012/01/down.html
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January 1st, 2012 at 6:21 am 71
Greater Vancouver SFH average price (Larry's #'s)
- note markedly declining % appreciation vs 2010.
- similar downtrend exists with Attached & condos.
2011-12:$1,064,249 (+1.70% vs2010) <- dropped 13% since peak
2011-11:$1,134,936 (+8.80% vs2010)
2011-10:$1,162,349 (+9.80% vs2010)
2011-09:$1,104,896 (+8.70% vs2010)
2011-08:$1,162,242 (+16.3% vs2010)
2011-07:$1,133,357 (+20.4% vs2010)
2011-06:$1,215,265 (+24.9% vs2010)
2011-05:$1,223,421 (+28.1% vs2010) *Historical peak
2011-04:$1,204,587 (+20.0% vs2010)<-CMHC rule change
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January 1st, 2012 at 6:49 am 72
Happy New Year from beautiful Tofino, "The Best Place on West Vancouver Island"!
An anecdote to start off your year. Visited a couple of years ago and noticed this new high end condo development, so we went in to check in out:
http://www.theshoretofino.com/index.php
The first thing that caught our attention was the pricing: $500k to $1.3 Million each. For a condo. In Tofino. The lone realtor in the attached sales office practically jumped out of her seat when she saw us walk in the door. I think we were her first visitors in several days.
She told us there were "only seven units left" and that they would make great investments. People from as far away as Alberta and Texas had already bought in! She gushed about how your unit could practically pay for itself by just renting it out for 4 months a year (as long as you don't count minor costs like insurance, taxes, strata fees, property management fees, or the opportunity cost on your 25% down payment)
Anyway, fast forward two years, and we're back for another visit. And guess what? The same 7 units are still for sale. And most of the sold units appear to be empty. Same sales office out front. Same ridiculous prices. And there's several unsold commercial units too. Yes, on top of paying 1.3 million for a condo in the middle of nowhere, you get to live directly above a bunch of boarded up storefronts.
But not to worry… according to our resident bull "Move On", there is nothing to worry about as our various levels of governments have God-like powers to keep BC's prices rising indefinitely. I'm sure those buyers in Texas and Alberta are counting their lucky stars that they managed to get in the ground floor of such a lucrative and risk-free buying opportunity.
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January 1st, 2012 at 6:58 am 73
@fixie guy:
How is it any different to wishing for a 70% cut in house prices (which will also wreck the economy) and waves of foreclosures, dipshit?
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January 1st, 2012 at 7:31 am 74
@DEFAULT NAMEe:
It's the rise in house prices which has wrecked the real economy (in the US, here and everywhere else there's been a bubble) and replaced it by a fake economy based on debt.
The inevitable fall in house prices gets rid of the fake economy and makes it possible for the real economy to get established again.
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January 1st, 2012 at 8:24 am 75
The doomsday sayer always wishes for a fall in house price so he can move back to vancouver. too bad, he cannot even afford the sunny warm affordable ottawa now. he cant even find a job in the public sector despite his armchair economic degree! So sad!
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January 1st, 2012 at 9:50 am 76
The RE dildos are out in full force for the new year. Time to trade in that Realturd license and go back to being a barista where you'll have a better chance of actually selling something. Wait! You need grade 4 to qualify as a Barista these days -too bad! See, ya, glad I'll never be ya.
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January 1st, 2012 at 10:05 am 77
@patriotz: Bravo, can't emphasize how important it is to realize the real economic damage is done during the BOOM, not during the bust. The real damage is the misallocation of resources at public, corporate and household levels as a result of the false prosperity signals sent to the market. The bust is merely the normalization process in action.
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January 1st, 2012 at 10:08 am 78
@Tofufino:
love it!!!!!!!!
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January 1st, 2012 at 10:35 am 79
Many areas of the lower mainland haven't seen any noticeable increase in prices for years..Things have been very flat…There is no "Bubble" you Morons.I hardly see any For Sale signs anywhere.If prices in West Van drop 30%…Who gives a shit.
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January 1st, 2012 at 10:55 am 80
2012 is going to be great..armed gangs roaming the streets raping and murdering.If we're really lucky we might get a few nuclear bombs dropped somewhere in the world. Of course Vancouver will look like Mogadishu and Real Estate will CRASH and burn…Yee Haw!!…Bring it on baby!!
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January 1st, 2012 at 11:18 am 81
Vancouver like Mogadishu????? I'd take that if we got their weather too!!!
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January 1st, 2012 at 1:00 pm 82
@Greater Vancouver Average SFH Price Dropping; 13% Down Since April 2011 Peak; Now Essentially Flat YOY | Vancouver Real Estate Anecdote Archive:
Full larry stats history:
Single Family House
2011-12:$1,064,249 (+1.70% vs2010) <- -13% from peak
2011-11:$1,134,936 (+8.80% vs2010)
2011-10:$1,162,349 (+9.80% vs2010)
2011-9: $1,104,896 (+8.70% vs2010)
2011-8: $1,162,242 (+16.3% vs2010)
2011-7: $1,133,357 (+20.4% vs2010)
2011-6: $1,215,265 (+24.9% vs2010)
2011-5: $1,223,421 (+28.1% vs2010) *historic peak
2011-4: $1,204,587 (+20.0% vs2010)<-mortgage rule tightened
2011-3: $1,155,007 (+15.3% vs2010)
2011-2: $1,173,395 (+21.8% vs2010)
2011-1: $1,144,537
Detached
2011-12:$511,948 (-2.8% vs2010) <- -11% from peak
2011-11:$565,168 (+4.8% vs2010)
2011-10:$571,425 (+10.1% vs2010)
2011-9: $573,259 (+7.3% vs2010)
2011-8: $562,145 (+2.0% vs2010)
2011-7: $569,042 (+7.5% vs2010)
2011-6: $554,763 (-2.5% vs2010)
2011-5: $555,057 (+2.1% vs2010)
2011-4: $573,381 (+4.0% vs2010)<-mortgage rule change
2011-3: $573,118 (+7.4% vs2010)
2011-2: $573,534 (+4.1% vs2010) *historic peak
2011-1: $552,550
Condo
2011-12:$443,652 (+0.9% vs2010) <- -8%from peak
2011-11:$431,808 (+3.6% vs2010)
2011-10:$446,296 (+1.0% vs2010)
2011-9: $455,342 (+5.7% vs2010)
2011-8: $463,203 (+7.6% vs2010)
2011-7: $450,527 (+1.7% vs2010)
2011-6: $445,981 (+4.0% vs2010)
2011-5: $465,422 (+5.1% vs2010)
2011-4: $483,424 (+13.0% vs2010)<-rule change; historic peak
2011-3: $465,997 (+7.7% vs2010)
2011-2: $444,862 (+2.7% vs2010)
2011-1: $441,491
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January 1st, 2012 at 7:37 pm 83
[...] (+20.0% vs2010) <-CMHC rule change” – from a post by VMD at vancouvercondo info [1 Jan 2012 2:21pm], figures sourced from Larry [...]
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January 2nd, 2012 at 3:14 am 84
[...] (+20.0% vs2010) <-CMHC rule change” – from a post by VMD at vancouvercondo info [1 Jan 2012 2:21pm], figures sourced from Larry [...]
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January 2nd, 2012 at 6:13 am 85
@Tofufino My wife and I were there in October. I thought, "Hey I can buy a place here!" LOL. Did you take a walk around The Shore? On the South side of the building it borders an ENORMOUS concrete fuel take used for the marina. How frightening is that?
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January 3rd, 2012 at 6:01 am 86
[...] “Ah…another year and another year of failed predictions to come for the bears… I always love January…its the start of the delusional bear “wishful thinking” season… January rolls around, and out comes the threat to prices from a blossoming inventory; soon, after no price declines, we move into Spring, with the criticism of stupid buyers as bears watch strong sales and inching up prices; then comes summer, with declining inventory, and wails of dirty asian money and cheap money; then comes fall with increasing inventory, but no price declines despite “poor” sales; then comes the next year… Ah, repeat….for the 7th year of failed predictions for some of you (circa 2005) You have one life to live bears… Maybe its time to take a page out of “formervancouverresident”‘s play book, and move on… This city is for those with equity after not “sitting on the sidelines” for almost a decade and those rich Asians that have no problem laundering their ill-gotten gains here. Face it, the federal government has abandoned you; your provincial government has abandoned you; and your local government has abandoned you. Everyone wants the RE gravy train to continue and measures will, and have been taken, to keep the party going. Nobody cares about a small, silent minority of prudent renters… you are invisible. Your family and friends all question your intelligence for sitting on the sidelines, and quietly whisper “I wish they would just do the right thing, and settle down, and buy a place”… Time to move on boys and girls…” – Move On at vancouvercondo.info 1 Jan 2012 11:35am [...]
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January 4th, 2012 at 6:00 am 87
[...] He seemed to think that the foreclosure procedure was the solution of last resort.” – 0×13 at vancouvercondo.info 30 Dec 2011 12:43am Share:TwitterFacebookRedditStumbleUponDigg This entry was posted in 05. Where do Buyers get the [...]
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January 4th, 2012 at 1:36 pm 88
[...] “Recently I had an informal talk with a friend who works at one of the big Canadian banks. I asked him if he noticed any changes in the mortgage business. He said it’s still going strong. Interestingly though he also mentioned that he noticed an interesting phenomenon. Based on his day to day readings of a range of clients mortgages it seems individuals with mortgages about as high as $300k were actually making progress towards paying the principal. However if the mortgage was $600k or higher (most of the time this resulted from clients rolling in other kind of debt into their mortgage payments) the principal appears to have remained at the same level for the last 2-3 years. He noted that these $600k+ clients appear to be paying the principal over the years but after a while they ask that some line of credit with $30k-60k on it be rolled in the mortgage which bumps the principal back to previous years’ values. I also asked what would happen if the clients can’t pay… does the bank take the property into foreclosure? The way he answered caught me a little off guard. It felt like he never quiet thought the process through. He said that the bank will work quiet hard to “help” the client continue paying (I’m not sure if this meant they’ll lower the monthly payment). He seemed to think that the foreclosure procedure was the solution of last resort.” – 0×13 at vancouvercondo.info 30 Dec 2011 12:43am [...]
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January 4th, 2012 at 4:01 pm 89
[...] “For me personally this spring will determine whether or not I buy a house. If things crack up, I will sit tight, if nothing happens and the global economy improves I might buy. I am sick to death of renting a crap house for 3k per month!!!” – paulb. (a Vancouver realtor) at vancouvercondo.info 31 Dec 2011 [...]
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January 4th, 2012 at 8:19 pm 90
[...] guess what, I have something to my name and you (RE) aint getting a penny of it. Eat that!” – squeaky at vancouvercondo.info 31 Dec 2011 7:44pm Share:TwitterFacebookRedditStumbleUponDigg This entry was posted in 07. Avoiding Vancouver, 09. [...]
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