Water problems in New West condo
Chilled wrote the following in this weekends thread:
Condo Boom?
I live in a high end New West condo that is approximately 3yrs old. They have recently had another major ‘flood.’ Fortunately I live on a floor well above the high water mark and my unit hasn’t suffered damage. Damages has been extensive. Being a renter I am not privy to the strata minutes, but I have had discussions with strata members and believe my information to be accurate.
“Defective expansion joints” are blowing out, causing main water lines to let go. Yikes!!! The strata has posted notices that “faulty expansion joints” are going to all be replaced.
Faulty? Yeah sure, probably installed by a “plumbers apprentice” without enough experience supervised by a journeyman who is hardly competent himself. As a tradesman myself, expansion joints just don’t ‘fail.’ Especially at an alarming rate and if they did, wouldn’t this be going on everywhere the product was installed leading to a subsequent recall?
Anyway, get this;
-the developer is the property management company
-the engineering company works for the developer
-the mechanical contractor works for the developerStrata members tell me it is “warranty” but when I query them on who pays for the cleanup and restoration costs I’m told they are “not sure yet.” Basically, this will cost the strata hugh one way or the other.
Hey, any of the strata members reading this will recognize the building so read this carefully;
-call in a mechanical consulting engineer specializing in piping. You will have to bring someone in from out of province, maybe Alberta. The old boys club in Vancouver will prevent independent and impartial analysis
-FIRE the development company acting as the strata property management company. Do you see a conflict here as the building inches through the warranty period?
-take the engineering report to a legal firm willing to take the developer to task on this
-pursue the same avenue with all the other problems in the building. It is not normal to have the elevator service company on site as much as the mail man.Finally, please stop telling us renters in the elevator “I wish I rent like you” as I know you drank the koolaid and made stupid decisions that will cost you for the rest of your lives.
But if you do happen to see the owner of my unit at an emergency strata meeting, please thank him for what is a huge rental subsidy.
Sign me,
Happily above the high tide mark.
December 12th, 2011 at 2:04 am 1
"Hey, any of the strata members reading this will recognize the building so read this carefully;"
You've already said you're a renter, and that therefore this is no concern of yours, so why not keep out of it?
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December 12th, 2011 at 2:17 am 2
@DEFAULT NAMEe: You’ve already said you’re a renter, and that therefore this is no concern of yours, so why not keep out of it?
He also said he lives in the building, so maybe it is a wee bit of a concern of his. I think he's not concerned with how much the repairs cost or who ends up paying for it, but who wants to live in a building with burst pipes in the walls?
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December 12th, 2011 at 2:17 am 3
@DEFAULT NAMEe:
"why not keep out of it?"
Because he's literally in it?
Maintenance issues affect renters. Duh.
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December 12th, 2011 at 2:19 am 4
@patriotz:
"Because he’s literally in it? Maintenance issues affect renters. Duh."
Actually, he says : "But if you do happen to see the owner of my unit at an emergency strata meeting, please thank him for what is a huge rental subsidy."
Which seems to be only for the purposes of gloating. Duh.
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December 12th, 2011 at 2:20 am 5
@DEFAULT NAMEe:
You're an idiot. I'm not a white supremacist, does that mean I should have no opinion on the racist piece of shits that recently got charged with hate crimes?
The 'you're not X so you should have no opinion on the matter' argument is crap.
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December 12th, 2011 at 2:20 am 6
@Vini:
"but who wants to live in a building with burst pipes in the walls?"
Then move. Isn't that one of benefits of renting that's constantly trumpeted?
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December 12th, 2011 at 2:26 am 7
@DEFAULT NAMEe:
"Then move."
You're hilarious. Why should he move out of a new building that obviously needs fixing, and why shouldn't that warranty work be done properly instead of just as a temporary patch.
Just because its easier and cheaper to move as a renter doesn't mean its without effort. Renting or buying, there are basic requirements for standards of living in a building.
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December 12th, 2011 at 2:27 am 8
@DEFAULT NAMEe: Right, you never said he wasn't entitled to his opinion, what you actually said was "this is no concern of yours, so why not keep out of it?".
My bad
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December 12th, 2011 at 2:40 am 9
This was sent to me by commenter "Strataman" a while ago, when I asked him to highlight some of the various "scams" he's seen around condo strata:
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December 12th, 2011 at 3:01 am 10
@Hubert:
"Renting or buying, there are basic requirements for standards of living in a building."
Absolutely. And the correct avenue for addressing problems such as this is via his landlord. Wouldn't you agree?
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December 12th, 2011 at 3:37 am 11
@DEFAULT NAME: LOL you better hope Strataman isn't reading!
One point with new buildings is that as they are brought online the strata are bootstrapped by the developer who signs initial agreements and contracts. The owners who assume control of the strata are bound by these agreements. It's in their presale contracts this can be done. This doesn't necessarily mean the builder will screw over the strata — some builders care about reputation — but often all members of the strata are not involved in setting up initial maintenance contracts even though they are obliged to complete the purchase.
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December 12th, 2011 at 5:03 am 12
Glad to be renting also! The owners of my unit are getting slapped with a $2800.00 special assessment. Ho ho ho! The building was built in 2008, beautiful outdoor architecture and nice looking insides, SHIT WORKMANSHIP! Gone thru 3 hot water tanks already… now the strata want to put in boiler hence special asses. The air conditioning unit just started to sound like someones running a chainsaw in the hall way, so I'm sure I'm not the only one complaining about that. Clunky and slow elevator… and the list goes on… Any ways, when there is a correction, and I buy back in, I wont buy any thing built from 2004 onwards!
Boom Built Shit!
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December 12th, 2011 at 5:10 am 13
Hey idiot renters:
Your landlord is losing money and you party ? WTF???
If he keeps loosing money, eventually, these costs will have to be passed to renters like you! duuh
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December 12th, 2011 at 5:16 am 14
@Alum:
>>>these costs will have to be passed to renters like you!<<<
Wrong dumbfuck. Landlords only get what the market will pay, if it was so easy to pass their costs on there wouldn't be so many idiot amateur landlords bleeding hundreds of dollars every month.
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December 12th, 2011 at 5:27 am 15
@DEFAULT NAMEe: "the correct avenue for addressing problems such as this is via his landlord. Wouldn’t you agree?"
Sorry no, don't agree. Unless his landlord, as owner of one unit, is personally responsible for the state of the plumbing in the entire building and can fix the problem single handed.
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December 12th, 2011 at 5:58 am 16
@Alum:
Hey idiot renters:
Your landlord is losing money and you party ? WTF???
If he keeps loosing money, eventually, these costs will have to be passed to renters like you! duuh
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December 12th, 2011 at 6:03 am 17
Attn: Alum
Your the IDIOT!
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December 12th, 2011 at 6:05 am 18
I Love name calling on line. LOL
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December 12th, 2011 at 6:21 am 19
@Alum:
"If he keeps loosing money, eventually, these costs will have to be passed to renters like you! duuh"
If that were true, there would never be a RE bust, anywhere, because rents would rise to the point where landlords would make money, rather than what actually happens, prices falling to the point where landlords would make money.
Welcome to our universe. What's yours called?
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December 12th, 2011 at 6:25 am 20
@Alum: "If he keeps loosing money, eventually, these costs will have to be passed to renters like you! duuh"
No…eventually he runs out of money and has to sell or declare bankruptcy. If the landlord raises rents above market, it will sit vacant.
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December 12th, 2011 at 6:42 am 21
@DEFAULT NAME
That's Right! My landlord tried to raise rent by $300. We said we would leave, they tried to get others, but no takers at an insane price. So we stay at reasonable below mortgage cost!
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December 12th, 2011 at 6:45 am 22
@fixie guy:
"See flagship of Vancouver buildings below"
Maybe you could tell us where the code violations are?
The warranty starts when the unit is sold. The OV will be under warranty for many years to come until way after the last unit is sold. Most of the stories with the OV workmanship are the result of the buyers paying too much and looking for recourse in other ways. I am not saying the buildings are well built, but if prices had not been cut we wouldn't be hearing so many complaints. If there were truly so many problems you would bring in an independent engineer and make a warranty claim, then sue if not resolved. You would not be going to the media to file a complaint.
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December 12th, 2011 at 6:54 am 23
@Hubert:
"Sorry no, don’t agree. Unless his landlord, as owner of one unit, is personally responsible for the state of the plumbing in the entire building and can fix the problem single handed."
No, the owner isn't personally responsible for the state of the plumbing nor can he fix it single-handed. That's a total strawman on your part. However, the owner of the unit – his landlord – is the one who should be dealing with the strata.
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December 12th, 2011 at 7:28 am 24
Here is my daily press review about China
If some of you were wondering how Mainland Chinese people, who are not officially allowed to "export" huge chunk of money, here is one way of doing it, as explained by the Economist:
A window on China
What an offshore gambling mecca reveals about business in China
"Macau’s success is not built purely on the Chinese love of gambling. It is also fuelled by a stampede of nervous money fleeing the mainland. A look behind the scenes at Macau reveals a lot about Chinese corruption, and also about how scared many Chinese businessfolk are about the political climate back home."
(…)
High-flyers who gamble with borrowed money in private rooms, known as VIPs, contributed around 72% of Macau’s $23.5 billion in revenues last year (see chart). Because gambling is illegal in mainland China, Macau is their destination of choice. The island’s idiosyncratic “junket” system helps to bring rich Chinese to Macau. Junkets are middlemen who lend high-rollers money, arrange accommodation and are paid around 40% of the casinos’ take in return.
But it is not just a passion for cards that brought more than 13.2m mainlanders to Macau in the first ten months of this year. Many come to elude China’s strict limits on the amount of yuan people can take out of the country. A government official who has embezzled state funds, for example, may arrange to gamble in Macau through a junket. When he arrives, his chips are waiting for him. When he cashes out, his winnings are paid in Hong Kong dollars, which he can stash in a bank in Hong Kong or take farther afield.
“There are many ways to launder money, more than we can think of,” says Davis Fong, an associate business professor at the University of Macau. Some bypass junkets and instead use pawnshops and other stores, where they buy an item with yuan and promptly sell it back for Macanese pataca or Hong Kong dollars—less, of course, a generous cut for the shopkeeper. No one can quantify how much money is laundered in Macau, but it’s “such an obscene amount of money you would die”, one resident avows.
Mainland China offers scant legal protection for private property. The rich, many of whom cut corners to get that way, know they could lose it all suddenly. Many also fear losing their political patrons next autumn, when China’s Communist Party will anoint a new generation of leaders. Small wonder they are seeking havens for their money and their families.
According to the Hurun Report, a wealth researcher, some 14% of rich Chinese say they have already left the country or are filling out paperwork to obtain a foreign passport. Another 46% are considering one of these steps. A recent report by Bank of America Merrill Lynch warned about the destabilising effects of “hot money” speeding out of China this year.
(…)
A memo sent in December 2009 from the American consulate in Hong Kong to the secretary of state said that “[Macau’s] phenomenal success is based on a formula that facilitates if not encourages money laundering.”"
Here is the full article:
http://www.economist.com/node/21541417
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December 12th, 2011 at 7:41 am 25
27 DEFAULT NAME Says: "Maybe you could tell us where the code violations are?"
Maybe you don't understand the purpose of building codes. It's to protect buyers from exactly what they're suffering in Vancouver's Olympic residential centrepiece. Warranties aren't relevant. The world's spot light still produces this unqualified dump, a pretty safe indicator of what happens outside it.
"Most of the stories with the OV workmanship are the result of the buyers paying too much and looking for recourse in other ways."
So you challenge me for specific building codes on a structure renowned for problems and then toss out this wondrous piece of mind reading?
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December 12th, 2011 at 7:45 am 26
All my friends and everyone I work with has bought a house. None of them are Chinese.You people have to get out more.
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December 12th, 2011 at 7:56 am 27
@WhatProblem:
Fantastic.
So who's left out there to buy?
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December 12th, 2011 at 8:13 am 28
Federal reserve report: Home flipping drove housing bubble in Nevada, California, other states:
http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/federal-report-h…
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December 12th, 2011 at 8:14 am 29
Elusive freako captured. The Second Coming. BUY GOLD!!!1!
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December 12th, 2011 at 8:18 am 30
@Makaya:
"Here is my daily press review about China"
Thanks. If you spent as much time looking for a job as you do posting this drivel you might actually find work one day. Get a life.
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December 12th, 2011 at 8:19 am 31
@fixie guy:
"So you challenge me for specific building codes"
Yup, still waiting…
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December 12th, 2011 at 8:33 am 32
@Best place on meth:
"Federal reserve report: Home flipping drove housing bubble in Nevada, California, other states:"
Gee ya think?
They could have just printed off a few pages from the archives of HBB, Mish, or Calculated Risk for 2005.
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December 12th, 2011 at 8:48 am 33
Perhaps Chilled should ask his landlord for their proxy vote at the next AGM
? LOL.
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December 12th, 2011 at 10:01 am 34
Although I would never doubt the opinion of an expert (and btw I don't count mortgage brokers or REALTORs as "experts"), I wonder if this might actually be a case of faulty parts over incompetent labour.
My rental unit in a very new building has also had a number of problems, especially with the plumbing. In discussions with the property manager as well as other tenants, the phrase "cheap Chinese parts" has come up on multiple occasions.
Interestingly, the same problem WAS occurring in multiple units, all due to the same cheap-ass defective Chinese-made valves that apparently the developer chose over some more robust ones that cost twice as much. I wonder if the developer factored in the replacement cost in their original procurement decision. Given that they have no financial incentive to produce a product that lasts anything more than two years, I'm thinking no.
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December 12th, 2011 at 10:22 am 35
@DEFAULT NAMEe: Which seems to be only for the purposes of gloating. Duh.
Except you seem to have missed the part where he gave specific advice.
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December 12th, 2011 at 10:24 am 36
@Hubert:
“You’re an idiot. I’m not a white supremacist, does that mean I should have no opinion on the racist piece of shits that recently got charged with hate crimes?”
Hey, Bad Analogy Man, I never said he’s not entitled to his opinion.
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December 12th, 2011 at 11:16 am 37
@jesse:
“This is the way the warranty works. The owner the strata is not allowed access to that portion of the building in that two years. They can not evaluate if the system is working properly because if they so much as touch a piece of equipment the warranty is void.”
First the building has to meet code. That never expires. The city can be brought in and if the developer plans on building in the future in that city they will have to address the code issue. The city could also be sued.
Second to say you cannot access that portion of the building is BS. That statement makes no sense. The problem may be stratas rarely bother to get a proper third party evaluation of a system prior to the warranty expiring but of course there is nothing preventing them from doing this. The statement “if they so much as touch a piece of equipment the warranty is void” is not correct. They would have to prove the evaluation caused it to fail to void the warranty. Not likely.
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December 12th, 2011 at 11:31 am 38
Another story from the Chinese economic miracle…..more to come. I guarantee it.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/sin…
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December 12th, 2011 at 11:49 am 39
[Canadians ‘consuming’ beyond means: Mark Carney]
Dec 12, 2011 10:26 PM ET
- Carney's on a streak of household-debt-warning speeches of late. Is he paving the way for mortgage rule changes in 2012??
"…Carney said that Canada's relatively low public and business debt present a unique opportunity to build a stronger economy for the future.
But he cautioned once again that Canadian households need to end their spending splurge, particularly on homes, now that their debt levels have reached 149 per cent of income, a higher figure than in the U.S. or Britain."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2011/12/12/…
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December 12th, 2011 at 11:57 am 40
'At first glance, personal disposable income levels appear much lower in Canada than in the United States. Mr. Arseneau attributes that to higher tax levels in Canada that are used, in part, to fund our national health care system. Americans, meanwhile, must allocate nearly 20 per cent of their personal disposable income to paying for health care, he says. “If we adjust for this factor, the debt ratio of U.S. households exceeds that of their Canadian counterparts by 12 per cent.”'
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/per…
I'm not suggesting this person knows more than the governor of the Bank of Canada, I just find the alternate way of interpreting the figures interesting.
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December 12th, 2011 at 12:32 pm 41
“-the developer is the property management company
-the engineering company works for the developer
-the mechanical contractor works for the developer”
A great article on a real-estate scam in the US.
http://www.businessweek.com/printer/magazine/the-king-of-all-vegas-real-estate-scams-12082011.html
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December 12th, 2011 at 12:42 pm 42
@DEFAULT NAMEe: How about the UK? Higher taxes there, no?
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December 12th, 2011 at 1:04 pm 43
I was googling Canadian finance sector lay-off stats when I came across this U.S. based site http://www.dailyjobcuts.com
It actually lists Canadian firms as well, such as
- 12/2/2011 Sun Life expected to cut 50 management level positions and 40 other corporate jobs in Canada
- 12/9/2011 Sterling Shoes Inc. says it plans to close 53 stores in British Columbia, Alberta and Ontario — about one-third of its current locations
However it did miss what I was initially searching for:
- 12/10/2011- Royal Bank, BMO laid off 1,362 workers during fourth quarter
http://www.timescolonist.com/business/Royal+Bank+…
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December 12th, 2011 at 1:08 pm 44
13 DEFAULT NAME Says: “First the building has to meet code.”
Ha, ha, ha. In my dealings with a wide range of trades in Vancouver – and downtown strata council members – most had tales to tell about the value of code compliance enforced by City Hall. See flagship of Vancouver buildings below:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/gary_mason/a-18-million-olympic-village-dream-turns-sour/article1957776/
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December 12th, 2011 at 2:37 pm 45
The laws are piled up deep and wide against strata councils and in favour of developers.
TRY THIS: get everyone in the strata to take the developer, etc to Small Claims Court, separately. Sue back the money they will have to pay, and loss of property value. It's been done before
) and it costs the developers a fortune in legal fees (N copies of everything).
that gets their attention, and to the mediation table.
going to Supreme Court will cost you a fortune, and you may end up owing money ! it's that bass-ackwards. and of course the developers know that …
OF COURSE, do the other things you said as well. but if our experience is any guide, get used to making trips to Robson Square …
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December 12th, 2011 at 3:13 pm 46
@mmp:
"get everyone in the strata to…."
Why would anybody in the strata take the advice of a renter in the building who has no financial stake in the outcome, and who won't be paying for the extra legal and engineering work they're recommending? If they want to influence the strata they should buy a unit in the building and cast their vote like everybody else. If I was an owner in that building I'd be seriously angry if a non-owner was interfering in such a manner.
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December 12th, 2011 at 3:33 pm 47
China's RE is in the beginning of government-enforced downward spiral. (2012 will see the price drops in full force)
Stock market also plummeting in China:
As of tonight,
Shanghai Index: -26% and dropping since Apr/11
Hang Seng Index: -25% and dropping since Apr/11
http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/q/ta?s=000001.SS&…
Multitude of other indicators pointing to marked slowing of Chinese economy next year (the debate is whether the landing will be "soft" or "hard").
On Chinese forums there are more and more people talking about pulling their unsuccessful listings off the market in hope of re-listing during the "Chinese New Year" bounce (CNY = Jan 23).
I've tried to be the voice of reason on the two main Chinese forums and created a thread discussing Van RE stats. Over the last 4 months it had garnered ~20k views on Westca forum and ~11.5k views on Iask.ca forum. I had made a number of people consider delaying their RE purchases, and in a limited way reduced the # of realtor BS posts on those forums.
With the public sentiment on RE profitability reversing, 2012 should prove to be an exciting year for us.
(The link below is the Westca forum-RE section, the highest view-count thread in the non-sticky section is mine
)
http://www.westca.com/Forums/viewforum/f=74/lang=…
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December 12th, 2011 at 7:15 pm 48
@DEFAULT NAMEe:
"“If we adjust for this factor, the debt ratio of U.S. households exceeds that of their Canadian counterparts by 12 per cent.”’
Gee that's comforting.
But remember that mortgage interest in the US is tax deductible and it's not here, so after tax US households in aggregate are likely to be paying less of their income on debt servicing. Also a great deal of US household debt is locked into low rates in long term mortgages, which Canada doesn't have. So Canadian households face much greater risk from rising interest rates.
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December 16th, 2011 at 5:56 am 49
[...] I work with has bought a house. None of them are Chinese. You people have to get out more.” – WhatProblem at vancouvercondo.info 12 Dec 2011 3:45pm Share:TwitterFacebookRedditStumbleUponDigg This entry was posted in 01. He Said, She Said, 05. [...]
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December 17th, 2011 at 10:31 am 50
Having seen the failed joints myself – I have to say that this component appears defective. There are other contributing factors to the failure though.
A correction on the renter's rant. Yes the property manager is the developer, but no the engineers and contractors have no other relationship with the developer other than what they were contracted to do for this particular building.
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