Whistler Hotel Condo Prices Collapse

The Pique has an article about some remarkable goings-ons just a little ways north.  Some hotel condo units in Whistler are now selling for half their peak price.

Those who own a condo unit in a Whistler hotel are sitting on great potential, but at the moment the units are not showing great value.

Real estate consultant Denise Brown with Re/Max Sea to Sky Real Estate reported that a unit originally sold in the Four Seasons Whistler for about $1.1 million was recently resold for only $520,000.

The so-called Phase 2 units in Whistler have fallen victim to the globally depressed financial situation, said Brown.

“We’ve seen the prices come down significantly,” she said.

According to Brown, this segment of the real estate business is at the bottom of the cycle so prices are good right now. She said the people who are happiest in the condo hotel market are those who are in for the long-term and have made a lifestyle choice in purchasing a condo unit in a hotel.

Lifestyle.  Got it?  Lifestyle, Lifestyle, Lifestyle.  Just repeat the mantra and you’ll be fine.

Then there’s this gem:

Kelly said this segment of the real estate industry has improved in the last six months but people aren’t willing to spend as much in Whistler as they were a decade ago.

“It’s not anything wrong with Whistler or that Whistler is worth less,” said Kelly. “It is just that people are prepared to spend less.”

It’s not that Whistler is worth less than it has ever been worth, it’s that some people paid more than it was worth.

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Anonymous
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Anonymous

@jesse: “They operate off a different model, owners have their units rented out on short term stays and in some cases have some preference for usage themselves. This model is relatively recent, more a gimmick akin to a timeshare”

I wonder when we will see something like this in Vancouver? Partial ownership of some kind right from the sales center. Share your condo with a few others and stay on your parents couch when the other owner uses it. Or better yet the place comes with bunk beds. Hey I am calling Rennie to get this thing off the ground ASAP.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

@GR: ….Get over it – you rolled the dice and you lost. ….

I think you’re a bit mistaken. I didn’t roll anything, I stayed out of the game (and you’re right, it really is a game). Wasn’t it you that rolled the dice? So far it seems you’ve won,… so far. But, you know, ‘the house always wins’, and that’s not the ‘house’ you’re living in. Good luck though.

paulb.
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paulb.

New Listings 239
Price Changes 104
Sold Listings 151

TI:16180

http://www.laurenandpaul.ca

GR
Guest
GR
I read this less of an off-the-cuff and more of a calculated and planned budget. They’ve had a year to plan it with full concentration. _______ For pete’s sake, stop reading into every action or non-action. You guys have been wrong for bloody years. I will wager that none of you are actually in government relations, so you know nothing of what you speak. You have perception bias, and you are imparting what you HOPE and believe SHOULD happen within the actions of your federal representatives. Sorry kids, but government does not work that way (coming from someone that works in GR). Expect the party to continue for some time. You have all made a huge miscalculation of the government and financial system, and you will be paying for it for years (as a renter/ I want to own desperately… Read more »
jesse
Member

@shriller: “Interesting that they didn’t put anything specific about CMHC into the budget.”

More likely the new laws are drafted but not ready for disclosure yet. They are talking legislative changes — an indication on how insidious CMHC has become — and that will be tabled in parliament either later on this spring or in the fall.

I read this less of an off-the-cuff and more of a calculated and planned budget. They’ve had a year to plan it with full concentration.

shriller
Guest
shriller

Interesting that they didn’t put anything specific about CMHC into the budget. Clearly they have indicated that changes are going to happen regarding MBS financing. But it’s almost as if they are trying to slide changes though without drawing much attention to it. I wonder if they are concerned that Joe and Jane Public might rush out and leverage themselves to the hilt now if they heard changes to mortgage financing were about to occur. Instead the budget gets top billing in the MSM and the CMHC changes occur in the background. Aiming for a soft landing?

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
@jesse: “The meat of the Whistler condo market — the standard owner-occupied strata stuff — isn’t down nearly as much as cited in this post. Still distressed, mind, and condo fees can be substantial, but I don’t think it’s 50%… yet (?)” These so called ‘Phase II’ Whistler condos are something else! It boggles the mind that they were enough gullible people in the world to buy enough of these units that there would be a entire hotel of them let alone multiple hotels in Whistler. These turds weren’t worth 10% of their peak value even before they were originally sold. I’m not clear why anyone would buy a regular condo. I can only assume that it’s some kind of plant material that buys ‘Phase II’ type condos. Time share buyers are somewhere below that level – perhaps gravel or… Read more »
gordholio
Member

Thanks, vangrl. Maybe I’ll proofread it before sending it in. Stupid spelling mistakes. 🙂

jesse
Member

One thing to mention on this Whistler topic is that this example is for condo hotels, which are being absolutely destroyed right now. They operate off a different model, owners have their units rented out on short term stays and in some cases have some preference for usage themselves. This model is relatively recent, more a gimmick akin to a timeshare, and the market has justifiably collapsed. This market’s distress was highlighted in a recent BC Business article and given the once-over.

The meat of the Whistler condo market — the standard owner-occupied strata stuff — isn’t down nearly as much as cited in this post. Still distressed, mind, and condo fees can be substantial, but I don’t think it’s 50%… yet (?)

Just something to keep in mind.

vangrl
Member
vangrl

Garth continuously back-peddles and has been totally off with the timing of all his predictions, and he’ll NEVER admit it.

I honestly find the comments and predictions from the followers of this blog much more accurate and interesting, plus Meth makes me laugh.

“@patriotz: Garth tires me though. He raised bear expectations about the budget sky-high (25 year am, higher dp), backpeddles at the last minute, and then declares he was saw it all along.

I feel manipulated 🙁

Decisions about the budget weren’t just made in the last 48 hrs. Contrary to Garth’s earlier speculation, there was never was going to be anything about mortgages announced today.

Still, Garth is probably right that we are going to be seeing some big changes, just behind the scenes. Easier optics.”

jesse
Member

@Patiently Waiting: “we are going to be seeing some big changes, just behind the scenes”

The “behind the scenes” changes have been in the works for months now, and anybody who was paying attention, or following local real estate bear blogs, would have figured this out. That Turner is so affixed on amortization lengths and downpayment percentages is odd when these days the levers are elsewhere.

I usually don’t read Turner; I read his “F Factor” post today and am again reminded why my interests lie elsewhere.

vangrl
Member
vangrl
this little essay should be on the cover of the Globe & Mail tomorrow morning, get on it Gordholio! “53 Again: Right now, you can’t buy an SFH, not even the mouldiest, tiniest, oldest, most unliveable piece of shit, in Wetcouver or any of the municipalities adjoing it (that includes West Van, North Van, Burnaby, Richmond, Ladner, Tsawwassen, even weird old New Westminster and most of Coquitlam) for less than a half million (!) dollars. Everyone would was conceivably stupid enough to buy has already bought. Meanwhile, the correction is full scale on in the peripheral regions, and inventories are rising everywhere. Property taxes are on the rise. Taxes in general are on the rise. A liter of gas runs $1.43-plus. A gallon of milk is upwards of $5. A case of 12 beers is $25 or so. The Asian… Read more »
Patiently Waiting
Member
Patiently Waiting

@patriotz: Garth tires me though. He raised bear expectations about the budget sky-high (25 year am, higher dp), backpeddles at the last minute, and then declares he was saw it all along.

I feel manipulated 🙁

Decisions about the budget weren’t just made in the last 48 hrs. Contrary to Garth’s earlier speculation, there was never was going to be anything about mortgages announced today.

Still, Garth is probably right that we are going to be seeing some big changes, just behind the scenes. Easier optics.

paintedturtle
Member
paintedturtle
paintedturtle
Member
paintedturtle

http://www.canada.com/news/world/Ottawa+toughen+CMHC+oversight/6381240/story.html

CMHC will be the administrator of the covered bond program which will be available to federally and provincially regulated mortgage lenders in Canada. “A legislative framework will support financial stability by helping lenders find new sources of funding and my making the market for Canadian covered bonds more robust,” according to the budget.

gordholio
Member
53 Again: Right now, you can’t buy an SFH, not even the mouldiest, tiniest, oldest, most unliveable piece of shit, in Wetcouver or any of the municipalities adjoing it (that includes West Van, North Van, Burnaby, Richmond, Ladner, Tsawwassen, even weird old New Westminster and most of Coquitlam) for less than a half million (!) dollars. Everyone would was conceivably stupid enough to buy has already bought. Meanwhile, the correction is full scale on in the peripheral regions, and inventories are rising everywhere. Property taxes are on the rise. Taxes in general are on the rise. A liter of gas runs $1.43-plus. A gallon of milk is upwards of $5. A case of 12 beers is $25 or so. The Asian horde (such as it were) is pulling back, realizing it can buy twice the house for half the price… Read more »
jesse
Member

@Anonymous: “you have to be kidding me”

Yes that is a joke. As patriotz noted the oversight has always been with the DoF, just that CMHC has, over decades of careful wording in policies and legislation, structured itself to make it difficult for its boss to see what they’re doing. That’s about to change.

Anonymouse
Guest
Anonymouse

@cmhc Hater:

“Thanks goodness they did not change the amortization, dp rules. The fools would have rushed in to capitalize on pre-approveds and this sucker would have lived through another peak buying season. ”

You’d have been saying it was good news if he had changed the rules, too! Hilarious!

Again..
Guest
Again..

God, every year, the bears, lead by Garth almighty, predict that the government will make some sweeping change that will hammer the real estate market come budget time. And every year, the bears, and almighty Garth, are wrong as they always read too much into the political speak of the feds. The government wants to keep the party going, and as a decade of ever rising prices has demonstrated, they can. Hell, even when the government makes some minor changes, the end is heralded as around the corner : ) Oh well, the doom and gloom wishes of the bears have been dashed again for 2012. Oh well, there is always 2013 as the year of the crash….lol : )

Makaya
Member
Makaya

@jesse:
I love this line on page 50:

“Further Developing Canada’s Financial Sector Advantage 3 3 6”

WTF is that?

patriotz
Member

@Anonymous:
The correct answer is, of course, Stephen Harper, just like every other branch of the federal government.

CMHC has always been under the direct control of the Federal cabinet of the day and the current language in the budget is just an attempt to be seen to be “doing something” when in fact the intention is to carry on business as usual.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

“Doug Porter, deputy chief economist with the Bank of Montreal, said it sounds like Ottawa wants to clear up who CMHC reports to ultimately. “It sounds like they want the finance minister to have the ultimate say when they believe it is necessary to make changes in policy,” he said.”

holy crap. it covers mortgages the same size as the national debt and you mean they don’t know who it reports to??? are you kidding me? yes, i know the correct answer is the RE industry, but still, you have to be kidding me.

jesse
Member

Federal budget: http://www.budget.gc.ca/2012/plan/pdf/Plan2012-eng.pdf

Some items of note
– Infrastructure spending decreases substantially
– Elimination of OETC
– Elimination of several partnership tax avoidance loopholes
– Curtailing of thin capitalization rules for non-residents

patriotz will like this: most of the public sector cuts will be in the Ottawa region. Most of the impact will take place in 2013 as departments try to figure out who/what to cut.

Then there’s the off-balance-sheet stuff, notably CMHC insurance in force limitations.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

@vangrl:

I don’t think any of the missing data is higher than the peak shown.

Next week’s graph will include some of the missing data.

patriotz
Member

I think that Garth (who was once Minister of Revenue) got it about right:

http://www.greaterfool.ca/2012/03/29/f-factor/

It’s still pedal to the metal.