Brand new house $130k

What’s this, builders making a profit on new houses at $130k?

Apparently only in Vegas.

Yes, after a 60% drop in house prices builders are somehow still in business making new homes and selling them for under $200k.

“The single largest impact has been houses under $200,000,” Beville said. “Homes in the $130,000 to $190,000 (range) are getting a lot of love. The ones in the $200,000 to $300,000 are getting a little bit less.

Meanwhile in Vancouver even if you get the land for free it’ll cost you $270k to build a 500 sq foot laneway home.

Construction cost is high in Vancouver for a few reasons: permits, cost of materials, cost of labour.. but there’s really only one reason construction cost is so high: people are willing to pay for it.

It’s not like construction quality here is known for it’s quality (leaky condo crisis) and we even make use of unpaid illegal immigrant labour and still we pay these prices?

Ridiculous.

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blueskies
Guest
blueskies

In 1996 we bought a Yaletown studio
for $92K, developer had many to choose from.

In 2002 building had a special assessment due to shoddy construction proceedures.

Development company (numbered entity)
no longer existed, nobody to sue.

Sold unit in 2004 complete with tenant.
Since then building has had 2 more
assessments.

I expect to see sub $100K units again.

patriotz
Member

FYI median household income in Clark Country (metro Las Vegas) is $56,258 pa, just a bit under metro Vancouver I think.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/32/32003.html

registered
Member
registered

“Meanwhile in Vancouver even if you get the land for free it’ll cost you $270k to build a 500 sq foot laneway home.”

28 years old living in your mother’s back yard in a cottage shared with siblings is no way to go through life, son.

Simple
Guest
Simple

Double Teranet HPI out tomorrow! I’ll prepare the fan for impact.

jesse
Member

Costs are also higher due to building code, but also 1-offs like this laneway, likely customized to some degree and infilled over top of an existing urban scape, are more expensive than knocking off a whole division on a desert.

The best part of that laneway article is how the mortgage is cashflow positive… assuming zero land costs. Great stuff. Vancity is really pushing these co-housing mortgages. I guess it makes sense for a cooperative to be advocating co-housing. I just see episodes of Big Brother but maybe I’m missing something.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

“illegal immigrant workers”? The original articles say “migrant workers”.

Do you see the difference?

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

@patriotz: “FYI median household income in Clark Country (metro Las Vegas) is $56,258 pa, just a bit under metro Vancouver I think.”

And about the same as New York (same source).

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

@jesse: “The best part of that laneway article is how the mortgage is cashflow positive… assuming zero land costs.”

The thing nobody talks about on the laneway housing is you have to give up your garage and parking to build it. That is far from free land. You own a million plus property with no covered parking or garage space to store a lawn mower, etc. Covered parking in condos goes for 40K to 50K each spot in Vancouver so you can add that to the cost of the laneway house. And that 270K (or 370K) laneway house also gets no parking. What will the street parking look like in neighborhoods with SFH + suite + laneway house all with no parking.

rp1
Guest
rp1

@Anonymous: “What will the street parking look like in neighborhoods with SFH + suite + laneway house all with no parking?”

No different than “single family homes” with 3 suites. Competent city planning would have produced low-rise apartment buildings with underground parking. Vancouver is a city in denial.

registered
Member
registered

5 jesse Says: “Costs are also higher due to building code…more expensive than knocking off a whole division on a desert.”

That may be but it should be shown instead of stated. Has anyone seriously broken down external costs like code compliance between markets? Las Vegas has major water issues affecting delivery of municipal services, for example.
It’s also hard to envision building codes more lax than home of special Strata assessments.

patriotz
Member
@Anonymous: “And about the same as New York (same source).” Likely New York County, aka Manhattan. Of course only the rich buy in Manhattan. The outer boroughs have more middle-class ownership (and a slightly lower median income), but remember that NYC as a whole still has the highest % of rental apartments of any US city. That means you will have a higher price/income for the same level of affordability to buy. They don’t seem to have figures for metro New York (which includes parts of 3 states) but Westchester and Nassau counties just outside of NYC have median household incomes of $93,613 and $79,619 respectively. Neither are cheap by US standards, but they are cheap by Vancouver standards. For example, Tim Geithner’s old hood in Westchester: http://www.zillow.com/homes/larchmont,-ny_rb/ You want something more blue collar, here’s Levittown in Nassau: http://www.zillow.com/homes/Levittown-NY_rb/ Affordability… Read more »
boogeybear
Guest
boogeybear

How much does it cost to build a 500 square foot garage?

About $50,000.

How much does it cost to finish 500 square feet in a basement?

About $50,000

Don’t build a laneway house.
Build a double garage with a finished suite.
Anyone having one of these suites built for $270,000 is a chump.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

@jesse: “1-offs like this laneway, likely customized to some degree and infilled over top of an existing urban scape, are more expensive than knocking off a whole division on a desert.”

Not true. Building a new subdivision requires roads, sewer, water, electrical and other infrastructure that is already there for the laneway housing. Besides that compare the sub 200K house in Vegas to new subdivisions in Surrey selling saw dust houses for 700K plus. It is all about what people will pay.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

@rp1: “No different than “single family homes” with 3 suites.”

Um the difference if the house with 3 suites typically has a 2 car garage and parking for at least 2 more vehicles in a driveway. The laneway house is built where that garage and parking are. There is no parking. Big difference.

Chem Guy
Guest
Chem Guy

@patriotz: At a conference in Alberta, average family income for Fort Mac is now $192K and average home price is around $750K. Rent is on average $1K/bedroom ($2K for 2 bdrm etc.). Here is a city with “crazy” housing prices as described by the presenter however salaries support this with the average family still able to put away $30K/year.

Presenter was politician from Wood Buffalo, I can post actual numbers once I get the presentation emailed to me – they compared costs in Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, and Vancouver too on one slide.

s
Guest
s

That figure assumes an average home price of $360,500 for a 1,200 square foot, one-storey house and $77,900 in annual qualifying income. Based on those figures, an owner would need to spend 43.1 per cent of annual income to pay for mortgage payments, utilities and property taxes.

The deterioration of affordability — the proportion of pre-tax income required to service the costs of owning a home — was most acute in Vancouver, where the costs associated with owning a detached bungalow at market prices rose 3.1 points to 88.9 per cent of annual income.

In Vancouver, which is Canada’s most expensive real-estate market, RBC assumes an owner would need $155,900 of annual income to make mortgage payments on a bungalow priced at $832,600.

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/article/85762–quarterly-measure-of-home-affordability-deteriorates-in-first-quarter-rbc

good-format
Guest
good-format
Copied info from VHB May Information sell list sell/list 2002 3429 4641 73.9% 2003 3279 4673 70.2% 2004 3918 6410 61.1% 2005 4434 5072 87.4% 2006 4297 5789 74.2% 2007 4228 6005 70.4% 2008 3002 7390 40.6% 2009 3524 4733 74.5% 2010 3156 7014 45.0% 2011 3377 5931 56.9% Mean 3664 5931 63.9% median 3429 5789 70.3% Projected total sales 2815 Projected total listings 6966 Sales are the lowest in 10 years. Listings are the third highest (with 2008 abd 2010 slightly higher) Sales are 23% lower than the previous 10 year average.
Meh
Guest
Meh

Landlords in Surrey better get their act together, or they could lose their property to City Hall.

“The City of Surrey has passed a motion to adopt a Standards of Maintenance Bylaw.
Sue Pollard with Acorn says the bylaw will help ensure basic rights like timely repairs for issues like heat, electricity and water, “If you have legitimate repair issues as a tenant, you can go through the Residential Tenancy Branch process, win an Order, but then you still have to get that Order enforced somewhere else.”
Pollard is hopeful the changes will help to solve those problems.”

http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocal/Story.aspx?ID=1711118

Troll
Guest
Troll

@Anonymous:

What will the street parking look like in neighborhoods with SFH + suite + laneway house all with no parking.

San Francisco is a good example of that, vast swaths of 3 suite homes side by side. Somehow they seem to manage OK.

Troll
Guest
Troll
RBC Housing Report http://www.rbc.com/economics/market/pdf/house.pdf The lessening of unaffordability in the second half of last year in the Vancouver area proved to be temporary. Following two-consecutive quarters of declines, home prices rebounded across all housing types in the first quarter, and this made it more difficult again for a typical household to own a home in the area. RBC measures rose between 0.3 and 3.1 percentage points in the latest period, thereby raising doubts that extremely poor affordability levels in the area will improve significantly anytime soon. Consequently, local homebuyers are likely to remain under substantial stress. Home-resale activity slowed fairly consistently since the surprising spike in the winter of 2011. Year to date, monthly resales have been almost 17% softer than the 10-year average in the area. Figures to April show that average prices have resumed a downward trend. We… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

@Anonymous: ……What will the street parking look like in neighborhoods with SFH + suite + laneway house all with no parking…..

Oddly enough, it’ll look just like Dunbar! Cars parked all the way down both sides of the street leaving barely enough room for a small car to get through. And, every single place that gets torn down or has a major renovations includes two suites and possibly a lovely lane-way (barf) house. The future is now!

silverfish city
Guest
silverfish city

@Troll: Actually, I can tell you first-hand that residential parking in the parts of SF you are most likely referring to is anything from a bit tricky to a borderline nightmare. The hills sure don’t help.

Speaking of hills, there is also a very large and dedicated cycling community in SF which relieves a lot of the traffic pressures. Amusingly, many cyclists are hipsters on faddish fixie bikes, which means they are actually pedestrians most of the time since they can’t ride up the hills.

(Posted from work in San Jose)

BulbsForSale
Guest
BulbsForSale

@Anonymous: I guess you missed the original story. Some of the kits condo protesters wore balaclavas to hide their identity. They claimed the reason HDM didn’t pay them is because they weren’t here legally, but were promised that the jobs would give them legal documentation:

Some workers also allege they were falsely told by HDM Hudson that they would receive documentation that would allow them to stay in Canada following the condo project.

http://www.kitsilano.ca/2010/03/20/migrant-workers-protest-in-front-of-the-pulse-on-west-broadway/

Troll
Guest
Troll

@Anonymous: I feel their pain, those folks living in SFH on the Westside have it pretty rough. I mean how much can they endure?!

jumpin in
Guest
jumpin in

“In Vancouver, which is Canada’s most expensive real-estate market, RBC assumes an owner would need $155,900 of annual income to make mortgage payments on a bungalow priced at $832,600.”

Can you elaborate on this?
How would this work if rates go up??!?!

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