Friday Free-for-all!
It’s the end of another week and that means it’s time for the free-for-all, or regular end of the week news round-up and open topic discussion thread. Here are a few recent links to kick off the chat:
-Vancouver housing slows to crawl
-Telus Garden sold out?
-Maybe not so sold out.
-Inventory growth slows (chart)
-Metro van sees sharp sales drop
-REBGV Press Release (PDF)
-Agent grumpy about bubble talk
-Housing bubble sentiment chart
-1980′s all over again?
-Senators grumpy with Carney
-Housing market pumps GDP
-Australia down 10%
-China’s ‘epic’ property bubble
So what are you seeing out there? Post your news links, thoughts and anecdotes here and have an excellent weekend!
May 4th, 2012 at 12:50 am 1
I liked this comment from the Globe: “”Bigest Pop On Earth”
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May 4th, 2012 at 2:51 am 2
“The political economy in Europe is such that the politicians chose to default on their spending obligations to their citizens in order to honor the pact with their financial creditors and so as time goes on, the politicians are being rejected.”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/hugh-hendry-europe-you-cant-make-how-bad-it
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May 4th, 2012 at 5:52 am 3
“How the housing market is pumping up our GDP numbers”
Some railed about the obvious conclusion of this publicly available data for years. With the denial stage now behind, the next step for media is investigating why politicians skewed monetary policy in this direction for a generation.
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May 4th, 2012 at 5:59 am 4
“Agent grumpy about bubble talk”
While my family and I often debate the social value brought by the Internet, we agree one lesson it teaches is some people operate at the mental level of parrots with large vocabularies. Reading Leah Bach’s ‘tough minded’ market opinion – ‘defense’, requiring some minimum level of data or logical construct, is too strong a word – made my head hurt. What’s her RET handle?
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May 4th, 2012 at 7:51 am 5
Check this out from Globe and Mail’s blogger series. A couple in their 30s with a son is looking to buy a detached house with a yard in a neighbourhood in the Vancouver area with a sense of community and lots of kids — for 500k. The woman says, “the thrill of paying someone else’s mortgage is starting to wear thin and we are getting ready to take the plunge into home ownership.”
It’s painful to watch these people about to take the plunge into the stupidest decision of their lives. BTW, I don’t think what she’s talking about exists in Vancouver. I mean for 500k, you expect a detached house with a yard and a sense of community! I think you’ll have to move to Surrey and even there it might be a stretch.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/mortgages/home-buying/in-vancouver-is-a-500000-fixer-upper-out-of-reach/article2412101/
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May 4th, 2012 at 7:54 am 6
@fixie guy.
Exactly what I was thinking about Leah Bach’s commentary. It was full of cliches and quotable, ‘sound bit-able’, well-worded sentences that carry very little meaning when you think about them. It’s the art of making yourself sound smart to dumb readers. Most people are dumb enough to actually fall for it.
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May 4th, 2012 at 7:55 am 7
Gotta love it. Now this is how you market a property.
http://tinyurl.com/6serv3p
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May 4th, 2012 at 8:11 am 8
@Joe_Blown_Away_By_High_Housing_Costs:
Interesting piece in the Globe. I did the math on this couple’s expected $450k mortgage, say 3% over 30 years. They would be paying nearly $1900/month in mortgage payments! Add property taxes, strata fees (maybe), repairs and maintenance, and you’re digging yourself into a big hole. My household income is similar to hers and we wouldn’t dream of paying $2000/month in either rent or mortgage (we’re pretty cheap). And for that price, I’m sure they could find a decent place to rent (not own). She’s dreaming if she thinks she can get a SFH in Vancouver for $500k! Try again in 5 years….
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May 4th, 2012 at 8:15 am 9
@Joe_Blown_Away_By_High_Housing_Costs:
Well of course the point is that she isn’t paying someone else’s mortgage. If she was buying would be a sensible choice.
Perhaps she doesn’t get this now, but a quick run with a mortgage calculator or a visit to the bank should help.
It’s just staggering how people swallow these cliches without even a cursory look at the numbers.
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May 4th, 2012 at 8:59 am 10
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/05/04/toronto-vancouver-housing.html
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May 4th, 2012 at 9:08 am 11
@Joe_Blown_Away_By_High_Housing_Costs:
>in a neighbourhood in the Vancouver area with a sense of community
i don’t understand what that means. i’ll just take a guess and assume it’s code for ‘whtie neighbourhood’. i’m not trying to be inflammatory.
looking at the racial make up of lower-mainland neighbourhoods, it’s obvious that birds of a feather flock together. of course, you couldn’t say something like that in the g&m.
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May 4th, 2012 at 9:20 am 12
@Mick Murphy
I don’t buy that at all. I don’t interpret “sense of community” as meaning “where the white people live”. First of all, you are assuming that Kristin herself is white. There is no information in what she wrote to indicate her race. She could be Chinese, Black, or Hawaiian. We don’t know.
“Sense of community” to me means lots of people on the streets, lots of diversity, neighbours that know each other and talk to each other (because they’ve lived in the area a long time), kids that go to school together and play together in the street. Many of these real estate bear blogs have documented how the high cost of housing has degraded the sense of community in Vancouver. Many homes are bought as investments and sit empty. Long term renters are evicted for renovations so landlords can increase the rent. Families with children move to Surrey instead of Vancouver because of cost of housing. So all of this degrades the sense of community. Vancouver neighbourhoods are not so much communities anymore as they are collections of financial investments. I don’t think this has much to do with race.
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May 4th, 2012 at 9:31 am 13
The bubble talk in the mainstream media is in full swing!
Just this morning on the Globe:
- Does it make more sense to rent or buy? (from our friend Ben Rabidoux)
- Why you should beef up that down payment fund first (from Preet Banerjee)
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/
These kind of articles are not gonna help the slow sales of the spring season!
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May 4th, 2012 at 9:32 am 14
@Mick Murphy: …i don’t understand what that means. i’ll just take a guess and assume it’s code for ‘whtie neighbourhood’. i’m not trying to be inflammatory. ….
Maybe it just means in a neighborhood where all the houses aren’t empty. That rules out Dunbar.
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May 4th, 2012 at 9:56 am 15
@Mick Murphy:
“i don’t understand what that means. i’ll just take a guess and assume it’s code for ‘whtie neighbourhood’. i’m not trying to be inflammatory.
looking at the racial make up of lower-mainland neighbourhoods, it’s obvious that birds of a feather flock together. of course, you couldn’t say something like that in the g&m.”
F@$%^ that annoys the shit out of me. Vancouver does not mix. Look at any region or neighbourhood anywhere and it is predominantly one culture. Even if they meant it as “We want to live in white neighbourhood” So what? Does anyone bat an eye lash if someone says they want to live in a Chinese community or an Indian community? No, Say you want to live in an area that has cultural similarities to yours and it happens to be of European flavour, you are a hood wearing cross burning racist. Unbelievable.
Reminds me of the UBC professor who was saying that some areas of the westside are too white and it’s all racist based but he has absolutely no issues with any other areas being dominated buy one culture.
To me neighbourhood community means people interacting with each other, pretty simple really. Usually for a person to achieve that they have to “flock together”
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May 4th, 2012 at 10:02 am 16
Meanwhile, in the US… (you know, that small country south of the border where Canadians use HELOC to buy investment properties there).
The crashing US housing metro areas – Atlanta home values crash by 17 percent in last year and Las Vegas continues to move lower
But it’s ok, it’s different here…
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May 4th, 2012 at 10:28 am 17
@DaMann:
>Say you want to live in an area that has cultural similarities to yours and it happens to be of European flavour, you are a hood wearing cross burning racist
i’m not sure why you are getting so upset. it seems that even on an anonymous blog, some have problems talking about these things.
i’ll mark you down as one of the people who think “sense of community” is code.
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May 4th, 2012 at 10:34 am 18
@Makaya: Atlanta’s a great one for me. Atlanta has been cited by Demographia as a prime example of how to prevent housing bubbles: relax land use planning and that, so goes the argument, keeps prices from bubbling up and causing long term economic hardship. Now prices are down 17%. Yup, there wasn’t a bubble in Atlanta like in Las Vegas or Phoenix but there were still foreclosures up the ying yang. Maybe it was as simple as too much debt…
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May 4th, 2012 at 10:41 am 19
@Mick Murphy:
Nice one! PC brigade in full force.
I’ve been to places in the Valley and believe me I have no desire to live in a “white community” if that’s what it entails. I just want to know one question. Why is it socially acceptable to say I want to live in a …… ( insert random culture that is not european) community but racist to say I want to live in a …. (insert random European culture). That’s all really.
Anyways back to housing. Those Atlanta numbers are scary. After a few years of a crash it is still plummeting down south. Makes you wonder how long the bleed will be here.
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May 4th, 2012 at 10:54 am 20
@DaMann:
> I just want to know one question. Why is it socially acceptable to say I want to live in a …… ( insert random culture that is not european) community but racist to say I want to live in a …. (insert random European culture).
hey, guy. believe me, i know how tough it’s to be a white man in canada
but honestly, i don’t think one is socially acceptable when the other isn’t.
it’s going to be sunny this sunday, what do you say we go to the farmers market and forget about this whole thing? we can talk about coffee and how hot asian girls are.
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May 4th, 2012 at 10:56 am 21
@DaMann:
“Why is it… racist to say I want to live in a (insert random European culture).”
Actually European cultures can get away with it as long as they’re considered “ethnic”, e.g. Greek, Italian, Francophone.
As you say the only anglophone whites who really want to live in homogeneous neighbourhoods are the fundamentalist Christian type. The more cosmopolitan types would prefer a more mixed neighbourhood, sadly the it’s the minorities themselves who set themselves apart.
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May 4th, 2012 at 11:06 am 22
Bug, meet ear.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/05/04/toronto-vancouver-housing.html
MSM coverage like this does a lot to change the psychology. This, I would argue, is secondary to the fundamentals of the market BUT, it makes those water cooler conversations move in the bear direction….
Just sayin…
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May 4th, 2012 at 11:07 am 23
Mick Murphy Says: “we can talk about coffee and how hot asian girls are.”
Asian girls.mmmm..the sole reason why I am not moving from Vancouve
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May 4th, 2012 at 11:10 am 24
@patriotz:
>The more cosmopolitan types would prefer a more mixed neighbourhood, sadly the it’s the minorities themselves who set themselves apart.
when you point the finger at someone else you have 3 pointing back at you.
the facts don’t really support you’re assertion. take kitsilano for example (see page 3):
http://www.vancouvereconomic.com/userfiles/kitsilano-neighbourhood.pdf
or the north shore, white rock, tsawwassen, west end, downtown. everyone wants to live amongst their own. whites included.
it’s easy to point out the faults of others, but first look in the mirror.
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May 4th, 2012 at 11:22 am 25
VW SFH has recovered from end-of-month delists. Now sitting at 926; just 74 shy of the big 1K. the only other time this level of inventory happened in the last 5 years was in the Fall of 2008. At that time, VW SFH prices fell around 20-25%.
I think we will likely have an 18K party this month; maybe a 19K party too. But watching VW SFH hit 1K is party-worthy as well, as I see it. Can we handle that many parties in a month?
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May 4th, 2012 at 11:22 am 26
@Mick Murphy:
Even just a small preference to be like your neighbours can result in extremely segregated area.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjfihtGefxk
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May 4th, 2012 at 11:27 am 27
@Mick Murphy:
People don’t live in Kitsilano because it’s mostly white, they live there because of the location and lifestyle. There are lots of Asians with the means to live there, if they don’t one must conclude it’s because they don’t want to.
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May 4th, 2012 at 11:27 am 28
@procrustes: very insightful. thank you for posting that.
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May 4th, 2012 at 11:30 am 29
whites created ghetto from North Van
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May 4th, 2012 at 11:46 am 30
This is just me, I find discussions on race woefully out of date, it feels like 25 years ago. If someone is of Asian descent, in part or in whole, but born in Canada, I see no evidence he will aspire to move to Kits any less than anyone else.
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May 4th, 2012 at 11:52 am 31
@jesse:
A friend (Indian) married a francophone (from Quebec) and together adopted a Chinese girl. Where are they supposed to live?
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May 4th, 2012 at 11:55 am 32
“Where are they supposed to live?”
In abbotsford.
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May 4th, 2012 at 11:58 am 33
“The more cosmopolitan types would prefer a more mixed neighbourhood, sadly the it’s the minorities themselves who set themselves apart.”
They do it most obviously by not speaking English in public. I grew up in a multiracial neighbourhood in the 70s-80s, and it worked because everybody spoke the same language. This is less and less possible these days.
BTW if anyone is totally obsessed with race on this board, its “Mick Murphy”. I hope he is really is Irish because that could be seen as a slur.
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May 4th, 2012 at 12:11 pm 34
@jesse:
“This is just me, I find discussions on race woefully out of date”
The point of course is that it really isn’t about race at all, it’s about culture. But it’s a lot easier in any debate involving people who look different to use the “R” word than to engage in a serious discussion about what shared cultural values we need to make a democratic society work.
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May 4th, 2012 at 12:18 pm 35
@patriotz: Agreed
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May 4th, 2012 at 12:25 pm 36
For people with money, Kitsilano isn’t as attractive as other Westside neighborhoods. Due in large part to the amount of rental housing/apartments, which they view as undesirable for a number of reasons.
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May 4th, 2012 at 12:45 pm 37
The tide is turning… the pc world of the 90s and 2000s is slowly becoming so absurd that more and more people (of all creeds) are waking up to the scam of “multicultural lalaland”. Homogenous neighborhoods of all colors tend to have happier residents, much more cohesion and neighborly support and community trust (countless studies on this, just google it). Whites (or say English or German or French or Irish…) do have as much of a right to live in communities with shared values and identities as do any other “people” from natives over Filipinos to Arabs if they choose to do so. In Vancouver, we are all minorities…
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May 4th, 2012 at 12:55 pm 38
I recently started a new job in Calgary. I’m up here right now without my family as they’ll come later. I found a room to rent in a nice house with a few other working guys. The house is on the market. He had it listed last year, dropped price a couple times. Never sold. Re-listed l this spring, already one price drop of 11 thousand and still nothing. The realtor asks, knowing I’m moving my family up in the fall, if I want to buy the house. I looked her right in the eye with the other guys watching and told her I have no desire to buy a home in a falling market. I told her why would I buy when I can rent for $1500-2000 a month in Calgary for a nice big house and zero costs associated with it. She didn’t have much of an argument. The other guys laughed and said that she probably hasn’t heard that comment in a while.
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May 4th, 2012 at 12:56 pm 39
PS. It’s a very liberating time to be a renter and I’m so darn proud that I’m in that position
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May 4th, 2012 at 12:57 pm 40
Regarding race and neighbourhoods: People want to live around like ‘minded’ people, and like minded people are more likely to be of the same race, but not necessarily. Gays congregate in the West End, because they like being around other gays…but race is irrelevant.
Kits is also a neighbourhood of like minded folks of all races…but the majority happen to be white. So what is the Kits type? I’d say it’s well educated people that were born in Canada and are approx 25-45yrs old. Look at the race demographics of Vancouver as a whole 25-45yrs ago, when the current Kits crop were born, and I’ll bet it matches Kits today.
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May 4th, 2012 at 12:57 pm 41
@suspectum: I agree that PC multiculturalism is stupid.
But dividing the population into ethnic enclaves isn’t healthy. Where does that leave people of mixed backgrounds? Do they fit in everywhere or nowhere? Or what about people who aren’t in a major ethnic group?
When stresses come, I mean really bad times, how will these enclaves get along? Is it easier for some fanatic to start some evil shit?
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May 4th, 2012 at 1:05 pm 42
@Patiently Waiting Says:
I do not advocate “segregation” in all neighborhoods. Some will be mixed, some will not. I just think that the segment that wants to live amongst “their own” should be allowed to do and say so. What is wrong with having, say, a Finnish neighborhood, a mixed downtown, a mixed neighborhood, a Spanish speaking one etc… all of this is already the case in most big international cities and it is funny that one may not mention it unless it involves a “minority”. Why can there be a “gay district” but no “hetero district”? Why is it okay to refer to Inglewood as the “black” part of LA but not to have a “white” one?
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May 4th, 2012 at 1:06 pm 43
24 Mick Murphy Says: “the facts don’t really support you’re assertion. take kitsilano for example (see page 3)..”
The data in that PDF, “unless otherwise noted”, is sourced from the 2001 Census. It realistically reflects an economic downturn period shortly after the fist big wave of immigration. Drawing contemporary conclusions from it is dicey at best.
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May 4th, 2012 at 1:12 pm 44
@Joe_Blown_Away_By_High_Housing_Costs: To be fair, if you read the article, the couple is searching all of Metro Vancouver as well as Victoria and Nanaimo. There are plenty of houses under 500k in many parts of the Lower Mainland and the Island.
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May 4th, 2012 at 1:27 pm 45
The irony of all the HAM race stuff is that there is a ton of Russian hot money buying too, esp in Coal Harbour and Yaletown I know first hand
It is just as hot ( sometimes sizzling!) and yet no one really talks about because they are not so obvious
This real estate farce is beyond race. We probably have just as much hot white money as yellow or brown but one group is more conspicuous
And just in case we feel too self righteous the hot local drug money makes up 6% of our GDP and is another driver of re prices
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May 4th, 2012 at 1:33 pm 46
Sentiment among local Chinese is rapidly changing.
A Vancouver/White Rock luxury home builder (and long-time RE pumper) on the Chinese forum just annouced today that he “bravely forecasts” Greater Vancouver (Especially Richmond) condos will “severely depreciate” in the next 2 years. He also said SFH will be less affected (or even rise in value in some areas) due to “the fact that land always rises in value” (He also said that Vancouver land price increased “1000x” in the last 100 years)
He also just sold several of his Van West Lots (was planning to build luxury houses but somehow didn’t work out) over the last 6 months.
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.iask.ca%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D562588&act=url
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May 4th, 2012 at 1:38 pm 47
patriotz Says: sadly the it’s the minorities themselves who set themselves apart
patriotz Says: People don’t live in Kitsilano because it’s mostly white, they live there because of the location and lifestyle.
when minorities live together it’s because of tribalism. when whites live together it’s because of location and lifestyle.
haha, my friend, you are should be a comedian
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May 4th, 2012 at 1:38 pm 48
@Makaya:
great read but the link is broken.
http://www.wealthwire.com/news/economy/3088
and to #38 the leak…..perfect in all aspects.
hat tip to both of you.
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May 4th, 2012 at 2:00 pm 49
ha-ha good catch Mick Murphy
but is expected from patriotz he is our board resident racist fundamentalist.
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May 4th, 2012 at 2:13 pm 50
@Anon:
“And just in case we feel too self righteous the hot local drug money makes up 6% of our GDP and is another driver of re prices”
Not for long, the “legalize” lobby is gaining steam on both sides of the border.
There are going to be a lot of people in BC that will eventually have to get real jobs and start paying taxes.
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May 4th, 2012 at 2:17 pm 51
@VMD @work:
“(He also said that Vancouver land price increased “1000x” in the last 100 years)
He also just sold several of his Van West Lots (was planning to build luxury houses but somehow didn’t work out) over the last 6 months.”
He’s contradicting himself – if land value will keep rising then why sell?
Also the next 100 years won’t be anything like the past 100. Unless he’s expecting the average house in 2112 to cost $1 billion.
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May 4th, 2012 at 2:18 pm 52
Sentiment among local Chinese is rapidly changing.
A Vancouver/White Rock luxury home builder (and long-time RE pumper) on the Chinese forum just annouced today that he “bravely forecasts” Greater Vancouver (Especially Richmond) condos will “severely depreciate” in the next 2 years. He also said SFH will be less affected (or even rise in value in some areas) due to “the fact that land always rises in value” (He also said that Vancouver land price increased “1000x” in the last 100 years)
He also just sold several of his Van West Lots (was planning to build luxury houses but somehow didn’t work out) over the last 6 months.
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.iask.ca%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D562588
_______
I found the first hyperlink story in the threat, “80 chinese victims of immigration backlog” more interesting than the threa on RE.
The protest over Kenney’s decision to refund all immigration applications was quite amusing. The article points to “massive protests” of 80 people in Hong Kong, and has pictures of Kenny portrayed as a Nazi. Be sure to read all of the protest signs.
The protest signs in the pictures say it all – from day one, people believe they are ENTITLED to enter Canada and all that it has to offer. We have seen how that sense of entitlement has translated into a break down of social cohesion in our fair city. Gone are the days when people felt HONOURED to be let into a country, and felt obligated to do their best in that country and give back where they could.
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May 4th, 2012 at 2:18 pm 53
Sentiment among local Chinese is rapidly changing.
A Vancouver/White Rock luxury home builder (and long-time RE pumper) on the Chinese forum just annouced today that he “bravely forecasts” Greater Vancouver (Especially Richmond) condos will “severely depreciate” in the next 2 years. He also said SFH will be less affected (or even rise in value in some areas) due to “the fact that land always rises in value” (He also said that Vancouver land price increased “1000x” in the last 100 years)
He also just sold several of his Van West Lots (was planning to build luxury houses but somehow didn’t work out) over the last 6 months.
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.iask.ca%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D562588
_______
I found the first hyperlink story in the thread, “80 chinese victims of immigration backlog” more interesting than the thread on RE.
The protest over Kenney’s decision to refund all immigration applications was quite amusing. The article points to “massive protests” of 80 people in Hong Kong, and has pictures of Kenny portrayed as a Nazi. Be sure to read all of the protest signs.
The protest signs in the pictures say it all – from day one, people believe they are ENTITLED to enter Canada and all that it has to offer. We have seen how that sense of entitlement has translated into a break down of social cohesion in our fair city. Gone are the days when people felt HONOURED to be let into a country, and felt obligated to do their best in that country and give back where they could.
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May 4th, 2012 at 2:22 pm 54
@Best place on meth:
It should happen, but I just don’t see it. It’s too logical for a government to do.
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May 4th, 2012 at 2:27 pm 55
…Asian girls.mmmm..the sole reason why I am not moving from Vancouve …
I’ve heard, anecdotally, there’s a few in Asia.
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May 4th, 2012 at 2:31 pm 56
@patriotz: ….People don’t live in Kitsilano because it’s mostly white, they live there because of the location and lifestyle. …
Care to elaborate on what exactly the “Kitsilano lifestyle” is? Do Kitsilano folks like coffee shops, shopping, beaches, or other things that aren’t available anywhere else?
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May 4th, 2012 at 2:45 pm 57
@Makaya: ..A friend (Indian) married a francophone (from Quebec) and together adopted a Chinese girl. Where are they supposed to live?…
Food court in a mall?
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May 4th, 2012 at 3:01 pm 58
@Makaya: “A friend (Indian) married a francophone (from Quebec) and together adopted a Chinese girl. Where are they supposed to live?”
With a Rabbi.
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May 4th, 2012 at 3:13 pm 59
#52, Observer: Great post.
#56, Anonymous: “Kits lifestyle” = overpaying for everything, mandatory botox at 30, and substantially more rain than White Rock/South Surrey.
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May 4th, 2012 at 3:15 pm 60
TSX closed at its lowest level for the year to date. Is everything starting to look like 2008 again?
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May 4th, 2012 at 3:35 pm 61
@Simple:
Absolutely not,
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May 4th, 2012 at 3:37 pm 62
@Anonymous: that is outdate info now Kit is mostly dominated by wealthy,gentle and well-educated Chinese.
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May 4th, 2012 at 3:38 pm 63
@Simple:
at times like this, my little bit of bear ETFs (euro-bear and energy bear) offer a little bit of consolation.
I’ve moved into a cash/fixed-income heavy position since end of 2011, partly missing out on the 2012 TSX rally, but I guess that little rally just ended..
This market seems quite treacherous (especially for newbie investors like myself)
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May 4th, 2012 at 3:41 pm 64
@Observer:
Name the forum and the names of the builders@Anonymous: ,otherwise what you wrote is a fabricated story from the moon.
Our pretty Chinese girls are reserved for rich and famous not basement and poor honkies.
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May 4th, 2012 at 3:45 pm 65
@pipewrench:
US US US……………………sucks here is Canada not US man
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May 4th, 2012 at 3:50 pm 66
re kits must have
.. fat big ass white women in lululemon spandex pants..
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May 4th, 2012 at 4:04 pm 67
ha-ha…. Canadian WHITE establishment’s love affection for convicted CRIMINAL ….yes he is criminal but he is OUR White CRIMINAL…
“Soon, however, Black could be back in the public eye. His memoir, “A Matter of Principle,” is a finalist for Canada’s National Business Book Award, to be presented at the Ritz Carlton Toronto hotel later this month.
Black is also expected to maintain his gig as a columnist for Postmedia’s Toronto-based National Post, the publication he founded in 1998, said chief executive Paul Godfrey.”
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/black-friday-conrad-no-less-divisive-figure-media-083007638–finance.html
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May 4th, 2012 at 4:07 pm 68
@kkk
what do you expect from our corrupt government? we are banana republic
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May 4th, 2012 at 4:15 pm 69
@kkk: i was watching the news when he was convicted and Amanda Lang was reporting. She looked like she was going to cry.
i looked up Lang’s background and her dad was a senator. when it comes to dealing with elites candian’s colonial mentality really shows.
the fact that he was prosecuted in the USA is telling.
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May 4th, 2012 at 4:19 pm 70
#67 @kkk: Race has nothing to do with it. The Globe and Mail business section is completely infatuated with Sino Forest, even though anyone with a brain stem could see it was a fraud from the Muddy Waters report released A YEAR AGO. Gee, this company claims to have rights to more forests than exist in China. Also, these two guys went there and said it has no operations at all. But the Canadian media somehow talks as if they are a legitimate company!?
The Americans stopped talking about Sino Forest literally the week after that report came out. It was good for a laugh and to see who lost money.
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May 4th, 2012 at 4:49 pm 71
@kkk:
Well maybe the joke will be on Conrad, according to law you are deemed a Canadian resident for taxation if you spend more than 180 days a year in the country regardless of immigration status.
Or maybe he’ll spend every other week in London just to get out of it.
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May 4th, 2012 at 5:41 pm 72
Is it a renter’s market? I’ve heard this recently and have noted that there are many vacancies-3 bedrooms under $1500 on craigslist yields more results than previously (even co-ops!). Anyone else having the same experience?
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May 4th, 2012 at 5:49 pm 73
New Listings 337
Price Changes 120
Sold Listings 77
TI:17592
Thanks for all the new “likes” on our FB page. Appreciate it!
Facebook page: http://tinyurl.com/3kpt4qo
http://www.laurenandpaul.ca
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May 4th, 2012 at 5:52 pm 74
@paulb.: 77? really??? inventory up 192 today! ouch…
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May 4th, 2012 at 5:58 pm 75
Wow look at those SPRING numbers. This is it folks, ’08 all over again BUT nowhere to go with rates and the CMHC has it’s hands tied.
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May 4th, 2012 at 5:59 pm 76
On pace for HUGE new listings. Early days still, but looking good. Hit 300 new listings each day this week–that never happened in 2011.
May-2012
Total days 22
Days elapsed so far 4
Weekends / holidays 0
Days missing 0
Days remaining 18
7 Day Moving Average: Sales 130
7 Day Moving Average: Listings 343
SALES
Sales so far 527
Projection for rest of month (using 7day MA) 2344
Projected month end total 2871 +/- 638
NEW LISTINGS
Listings so far 1401
Projection for rest of month (using 7day MA) 6181
Projected month end total 7582 +/- 346
Sell-list so far 37.6%
Projected month-end sell-list 37.9%
MONTHS OF INVENTORY
Inventory as of May 3, 2012 17592
MoI at this sales pace 6.13
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May 4th, 2012 at 6:08 pm 77
@kkk:
I’m no fan of Black but his case was a horrendous example o malicious prosecution. He was convicted on only one of 17 counts and that was a dubious act of wire fraud for several hundred grand. In the process the prosecutors destroyed a business worth several hundred mIllion and threw thousands of people at work.
Black aside these prosecutors should be held liable for over zealous prosecution.
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May 4th, 2012 at 6:11 pm 78
@rp1
The Americans stopped talking about Sino Forest literally the week after that report came out. It was good for a laugh and to see who lost money
i do believe we all lost money on Sino Forest when the Muddy Waters report first came out——Canada Pension Plan had 46 mil invested in the company–don’t know if any of “OUR” money is still invested or they took a big loss?
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May 4th, 2012 at 6:15 pm 79
@Anonymous:
“I’m no fan of Black but his case was a horrendous example o malicious prosecution.”
By the Justice Department of none other than George W. Bush.
Give me a break.
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May 4th, 2012 at 6:16 pm 80
@paulb.: I wouldn’t get too excited about today’s numbers people; after all, Canada’s game with Slovakia was played during the morning work hours here on the left coast, so many HAMsters were glued to their television sets this morning and couldn’t reach for their chequebooks.
In addition, many potential purchasers must have felt a little despondent seeing Alex Burrows (of their beloved Canucks) go out of the game with a suspected concussion after having slammed his head on the ice.
If we beat the Yanks tomorrow and get at least one weekend day without rain, we could see a spike in sales on Monday!!
P.S. I just watched “Love it or List it” for the first time earlier today and wanted smack the smarmy real estate salesman in the face. What an unctuous little twerp.
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May 4th, 2012 at 6:30 pm 81
Interesting interview with a property speculator in Vancouver:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaB0XhnL7ko
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May 4th, 2012 at 6:33 pm 82
@Anonymous: “He was convicted on only one of 17 counts”
Yes and that means he didn’t do it, right. Just like OJ Simpson. When you have unlimited funds for a legal defense you tend to get off most of the time.
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May 4th, 2012 at 6:35 pm 83
Another great day for listings.
18K party by Friday May 10.
This market is collapsing under its own weight. All the taking heads said it would take a watershed event like higher rates but as usual they were wrong.
This market is collapsing under fundamentals:
Record high prices
Record high price to rent
Record high home ownership
Record high price to income
Record high consumer debt
Record LOW interest rates
I call -15% by the end of the year and that’s when it will get ugly.
Have a nice weekend all you dumb renters throwing away your rent and paying your landlord’s mortgage!
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May 4th, 2012 at 6:42 pm 84
From today’s Wall Street Journal
Renting Prosperity
Americans are getting used to the idea of renting the good life, from cars to couture to homes. Daniel Gross explores our shift from a nation of owners to an economy permanently on the move—and how it will lead to the next boom.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304746604577382321021920372.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsThird
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May 4th, 2012 at 6:45 pm 85
@condo watcher:
“Canada Pension Plan had 46 mil invested in the company”
That’s peanuts for the Canada pension plan but regardless, they should never, ever invest a penny with the shifty, fraudulent, thieving Chinese.
That country should be boycotted, period.
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May 4th, 2012 at 6:46 pm 86
@McLovin: Thanks for the wishes, McL. I think you have it exactly right when you say the talking heads, who were all major economists, said it could never happen without a trigger. I guess that’s why they call it the dismal science.
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May 4th, 2012 at 6:47 pm 87
@Anonymous:
You are a complete fool and have bought into bs that the rich do no wrong. Black is a habitual sociopath. He was kicked out of school for stealing and selling exams – check out fish’s blog- and it looks like he just kept going until someone caught him.
Remind me why we took the convicted fraudster, anti-Canadian back?
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May 4th, 2012 at 6:57 pm 88
@frank:
Because he’s a conservative, that’s why.
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May 4th, 2012 at 7:30 pm 89
@patriotz:
It doesn’t take much to read about the Black case. I did and it is eye opening. One of his convictions – later overturned – was for retention of a single document deemed pertinent to the charges. This document was later found in one of 13 boxes containing hundreds of documents that Black had to remove from his office upon immediate order of eviction.
Whether Black is a lowlife is beside the point. Malicious prosecution is a serious problem in the US. More people than just Black have had prosecutors sweep through their lives on a with hunt, with a conviction following for something that was totally separate from the initial charge.
Black was convicted of a single charge of wire fraud, not the original charge against him. And in the process a huge company was destroyed along with hundreds of millions in equity.
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May 4th, 2012 at 7:31 pm 90
@frank
and the most important he is WHITE ANGLO….
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May 4th, 2012 at 7:38 pm 91
http://www.bcsc.bc.ca/release.aspx?id=14792
BCSC fines local investment firm $90,000 for “gross negligence”
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May 4th, 2012 at 7:38 pm 92
@Anonymous: “This document was later found in one of 13 boxes containing hundreds of documents that Black had to remove from his office upon immediate order of eviction.”
So a guy worth 100s of millions and is the top position in the company is moving boxes due to eviction? I think they have movers that do that kind of work. Maybe supervised by accountants if they were deemed important. The fact he was moving them himself almost proves he was up to no good.
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May 4th, 2012 at 7:41 pm 93
Well that’ll cover 1% of a cmhc foreclosed home, wheres the rest coming from?
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May 4th, 2012 at 7:57 pm 94
Anon says: “BCSC fines local investment firm $90,000 for “gross negligence””
shifty, fraudulent, thieving Canadians.
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May 4th, 2012 at 8:22 pm 95
94 qeen Says: “shifty, fraudulent, thieving Canadians.”
Are you suggesting potential qualifiers for a foreign Immigrant Investor Program?
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May 4th, 2012 at 8:32 pm 96
@mish: and the most important he is WHITE ANGLO…. …
Then he’s definitely not responsible for pumping up prices in Van West.
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May 4th, 2012 at 8:37 pm 97
@Anonymous:……The fact he was moving them himself almost proves he was up to no good…..
Ya, if you think about it, what with all the press stalking him, camping out on his front lawn, and going through his garbage, you’d think he would have rung up ‘Two small men with big hearts’ moving company and had them deal with his gack.
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May 4th, 2012 at 8:45 pm 98
“shifty, fraudulent, thieving Canadians.”
i wouldn’t be suprised that Cons nominate Conrad for premiere in the next election.
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May 4th, 2012 at 9:26 pm 99
Conversation overheard today at the gym. Two boomers.
Man: Is your daughter still renting?
Woman: Don’t tell me… It gives me anxiety. Who is renting those days?
Man: I do not know. Every one I know owns. Why doesn’t she jump in?
Woman (looking at the far away horizon with empty eyes): She is waiting for things to change…
Man: What ?!?!?!
Woman: This is what she says….
Man: Do you really think things could change? This is Vancouver.
Woman: No…uhhghgh… may be, who knows.
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May 4th, 2012 at 9:57 pm 100
Foreign buyers not gobbling up Vancouver houses
Facts show less than four per cent are from outside Canada
By Deb Abbey, Vancouver Courier
Read more: http://www.vancourier.com/business/Foreign+buyers+gobbling+Vancouver+houses/6564490/story.html#ixzz1ty5EP7RM
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May 4th, 2012 at 9:58 pm 101
fyi okanagan http://www.omreb.com/page.php?sectionID=2
MOI 16, I presume they are all very patient people
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May 4th, 2012 at 11:25 pm 102
@Jutus, are you stunned??? less than 4% are from outside of Canada because we let in more than 500k per year! They are “Canadians” now!
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May 4th, 2012 at 11:27 pm 103
@83
Let’s hope it’s further downturn in the market, but let’s not get our hopes up too high till the end of the month.
I hope the market collapses.
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May 5th, 2012 at 1:33 am 104
@jumpin in: Overheard conversation at a local rec centre between two female clerks working there:
Younger Clerk: Yeah, we think we might sell it.
Older Clerk: You should this summer with the rates so low. It won’t stay like this.
I suspect it may be an extra piece of real estate. People so casually talking about selling to become renters is beyond belief
Wise words from the older clerk, though better to say SELL NOW
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May 5th, 2012 at 4:39 am 105
@Anonymous:
Amazing the fantasy world that the Little Conrads have spun in defence of their hero. The reality:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2010/06/25/f-conrad-black-timeline.html
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May 5th, 2012 at 6:21 am 106
@The Leak:
Seriously, what you have stated is more than obvious. I still have to argue with my friends taking mortgages about the long term investment in a real estate. There is an obvious misinterpretation in our society, that owning a house is somehow better than just renting. Not only that renting lets you put money in different assets, but it provides you with the free will to move wherever and whenever you want.
Mr. Leak,
at least somebody is using common sense
Yes, you won´t own an old house in the year 2050, but your kids would have their education paid etc.
I mean that we should stop to listen to all this bullshit about how Canada’s Housing Activity Is on the Rise Again and start using our brain.
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May 5th, 2012 at 7:39 am 107
@jutus: From the article:
Ah so the “facts” are actually “guessing”, and using a survey that has no reviewed protocol.
Ask the wrong question, get the right answer… to the wrong question.
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May 5th, 2012 at 7:50 am 108
Guys, Check out Van-City’s Mortgage Calculator landing page:
http://tinyurl.com/7o42voa
Its quite interesting, you pick your area with a drop down and they show you Average house price vs. Average rent. I couldn’t find a single area where it was better to buy than rent :O Unfortunately, this rent comparison is pointless as there seems to be no point to that statistic on there… The page is after all geared to sell you a mortgage product. But I’d think any sane person would see those numbers and the last thing they would want to do is get a mortgage???
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May 5th, 2012 at 8:03 am 109
@market stats:
I can assure you those in the Okanagan are very patient. A friend of mine is currently living in a condo owned by her grandmother, while it sits on the market, unsold for over a year now. They have received exactly one offer in that year, for about $30k below asking, they counter-offered with $2k below asking, of course the potential buyer walked. I think she’ll be there for the foreseeable future, apparently the condo market is horrible. Lucky for her though, she’s getting a great deal on rent, all she has to pay is the strata fee ($200).
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May 5th, 2012 at 8:22 am 110
All these listings have broken MLS! I can’t get it to show my anything??
I checked on 2 computers in my home… anyone able to search on there? No red dots.
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May 5th, 2012 at 8:34 am 111
@xyz: yup, the site has crashed.
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May 5th, 2012 at 8:53 am 112
http://opinion.financialpost.com/2012/05/04/taxpayers-also-victims-of-hot-money-behind-canadas-condo-bubbles/
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May 5th, 2012 at 9:15 am 113
I checked on 2 computers in my home… anyone able to search on there? No red dots.
HAM
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May 5th, 2012 at 9:28 am 114
….i wouldn’t be suprised that Cons nominate Conrad for premiere in the next election. …..
Yes, he has experience with crop circles and is a well known cattle mutilator.
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May 5th, 2012 at 9:33 am 115
@The Leak: “Why would I want to buy a house in a falling market?”
Especially one that (historically, anyway) depreciates without regular injections of sweat and cashola.
Thanks Leak! Us bears have been waiting a long time to deploy this effective bit of conversational ordnance
. Will keep it holstered for a quick draw when cornered by the “brilliant real estate investor” type at summer BBQs, should I tire of all the gum flapping …
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May 5th, 2012 at 9:35 am 116
@jesse: “Ah so the “facts” are actually “guessing”, and using a survey that has no reviewed protocol.”
I thought it was a good article and produced more facts than I have seen yet. You missed the part of Telus Gardens buyers being 99% locals which seemed pretty factual. Doesn’t look like a HAM bubble to me. But hey, the real estate industry wants you to believe otherwise so go ahead and take the bait.
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May 5th, 2012 at 9:38 am 117
@De La Riva guard:
There is nothing wrong with buying a house in a falling market. The direction of the market makes no difference as long as the house would rent for more than the cost of holding it.
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May 5th, 2012 at 9:38 am 118
@patriotz:
Yes I am sure after he removed the boxes all the documents that were originally there were left for the prosecution to examine.
He was just grabbing his shaving gear. He keeps it in file boxes.
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May 5th, 2012 at 9:47 am 119
@Anonymous: The foreign angle is answering the wrong question. IMO acute capital flows are cause for concern, at least there should be a measurement of them.
The article mentioned nothing of debt levels. Funny that.
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May 5th, 2012 at 9:56 am 120
@116 Anonymous: Sales figures for one building in a market grinding to a halt may define the decade preceding it for those fixated on cattle mutilations and crop circles, I’m not convinced. What’s it been, a week since the last death of a drug dealer who passed away owning multiple properties courtesy of the proceeds of crime? How’s that FINTRAC working out?
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May 5th, 2012 at 10:13 am 121
Copied from PaulB’s number
http://www.laurenandpaul.ca
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May 5th, 2012 at 10:44 am 122
There is definitely a problem with buying real estate in a falling market if the capital depreciation is greater than the amount one would save by owing rather than renting.
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May 5th, 2012 at 10:47 am 123
I am starting to feel sorry for HAM…
I my neighborhood, Asian people hold empty houses, however they do not look like rich foreign investors to me. They look like regular folks from Richmond, with less money than I have, who turned a house into a family investment, like they would have bought a lottery ticket. They are more like Cold Asian Money, and about to get burnt.
I sometimes wonder how I could play the Real Estate market if I where in a foreign country like China or Mauritania, if I was not familiar with the history of the economy (passed on to me by my ancestors’ experience), with the details of the banking/tax systems/transactions costs. I guess I would tend to analyze things from my cultural perspective, and would be likely to be completely wrong.
I would be interested in understanding the perspective of people born in China, inheriting a history of Maoism, immigrating to Canada, being thrown into the neo-liberal madness. What do they judge as “sensible”? As “insane”? How much should they mimic the behaviour of the locals (= buy houses)? How much should they trust the media (=Global TV, Vancouver Sun)? Are they aware of the media corruption? Are there brokers abusing other people’s naivety?
Even people whose family have been through local boom/bust cycles continue to make unwise decisions, so how can an immigrant educate himself/herself about the dangers of the market?… just wondering.
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May 5th, 2012 at 11:27 am 124
@John B.: I completely agree John. Once prices really start to fall, renters will be envied big time. Especially in a highly unstable economy. When you have to relocate for work, you’ll be completely screwed being tied to a home. To think we almost bought a townhouse in the lower mainland back in 07′. It was right after that that economy turned and we were so thankful.
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May 5th, 2012 at 11:29 am 125
so its HAM vs CAM!
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May 5th, 2012 at 11:30 am 126
@N: Agreed. Even better, why not wait and buy much cheaper
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May 5th, 2012 at 11:30 am 127
“The stupendous difficulty of travel here in British Columbia has caused us to admit the utter fallaciousness of certain writers who have sent home glowing reports of the land and its advantages.
By a British Tourist circa 1862
I guess the relatives of the current Pimps e.g., Bill slut et al, were applying their trade as far back as then.
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May 5th, 2012 at 11:36 am 128
On the issue of foreign ownership measurement I think it’s a convenient excuse not to do anything about it due to the fact that we can’t perfectly measure it within 1/1000th of a percent perfectly in every community. A group of reasonably intelligent people – ourselves for example – could crowdsource an answer within plus or minus 10% about 19 times out of 20. It already seems to be settling in the true “offshore” figure of non-residents/citizens being quite low. From what I’ve seen I’d be comfortable saying it’s between 5-15% total non-resident for Metro Van. Probably double that for Van proper? That includes all Chinese, Americans, Brits, Indians… Double that again (or more?) for Richmond?
I like the idea of some regional restrictions for all foreign ownership – let them outbid each other on 1/10th of the land base, and leave the rest to local market conditions. Plus raise their property taxes by 100%.
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May 5th, 2012 at 11:41 am 129
@Bob123: @Bob123:
“There is definitely a problem with buying real estate in a falling market if the capital depreciation is greater than the amount one would save by owing rather than renting.”
In theory, yes, but that is unlikely to happen as genuine investors will step in and start buying an asset that produces more than it costs to keep, as is happening in some areas of the States right now.
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May 5th, 2012 at 11:46 am 130
@fixie guy: “What’s it been, a week since the last death of a drug dealer who passed away owning multiple properties courtesy of the proceeds of crime?”
It is not hard to buy multiple properties because you don’t need any money down to do it and financing is easy. He probably did the mortgage with 7% cash back deal like everyone else.
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May 5th, 2012 at 11:52 am 131
@130 Anonymous Says: “He probably did the mortgage with 7% cash back deal like everyone else.”
In this case the buyer had also declared bankruptcy. If multiple realtors filled out FINTRAC forms on multiple home purchases it now appears were made with drug money, what use is that data tracking legal offshore funds?
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May 5th, 2012 at 11:53 am 132
@Arthur Fonzarelli: “On the issue of foreign ownership measurement I think it’s a convenient excuse not to do anything about it due to the fact that we can’t perfectly measure it within 1/1000th of a percent perfectly in every community.”
I never heard that excuse. The reason foreign ownership is not restricted is because it has little impact on Metro Vancouver house prices but does help the economy in BC. Places like Whistler and the Okanagan would be decimated if you restricted foreign ownership. You have to remember house prices used to be normal and there was no foreign ownership restrictions. The thing that changed was the cheap easy credit.
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May 5th, 2012 at 12:06 pm 133
@Observer: I did a bit of research and finally found a local media article about the immigration applications getting returned:
http://thelinkpaper.ca/?p=16178
“This decision reminds the historical incident of 1914 when the then Conservative government of Canada returned the steam ship Komagatamaru carrying 376 passengers from Punjab, India and the Chinese Exclusion Act, 1923 designed to keep out immigrants of Asian origin. If implemented, this proposal will push the world back to the horror of Racism and Slavery through commoditization of prospective immigrants.
…
The Association will be submitting a memorandum against this proposal to the United Nations Human Rights Council at Hague, Prime Minister of Canada, the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism.
30th April 2012 was observed as the world protest day and protest rallies are being organized across the globe, Including China, Hong Kong, India, Pakistan and the United Kingdom, asking for withdrawal of Canada Government’s unholy proposal. Slogans such as “Reject or Select us, but don’t Trash us” and “Unfair Canada” will be raised to create awareness of the distrustful policies of Canada.
——
They can protest and raise awareness all they want, but I’m not seeing any great concern here in Canada. Not even from recent immigrants. If Canadians felt this was the equivalent of ‘Komagata Maru’ or the ‘Chinese Exclusion Act of 1923’, there would be loud protests across the country.
“unholy”?
What the heck is the UN going to say to the Canadian Government? “You big meanies”?
BTW there is also a Facebook page called “Prospective Canadian Immigrants” with more images of signs calling Kenney “Hitler” or whatever. If they want Canadians to listen to them, turn down the rhetoric.
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May 5th, 2012 at 12:31 pm 134
I just sent this link to my brother; he moved to Oakville a few years ago. It’s beginning to sound a lot like Vancouver.
http://m.theglobeandmail.com/life/home-and-garden/real-estate/buying-and-selling/high-rollers-rolling-back-into-oakville/article2399762/?service=mobile
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May 5th, 2012 at 12:55 pm 135
33 millions deal… I am goona keep an eye on that one
http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=11879597&PidKey=1912324312
Great opportunity to purchase this whole block – 408/416/426/436/446/456/466/488 West King Edward, Vancouver.
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May 5th, 2012 at 12:57 pm 136
@market stats: funny enough, in the press release, they only talk about how sales have improved from last year (without comparing it to the 10 year average), but there is absolutely no mention of average or benchmark price…
This press release is such a shame!
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May 5th, 2012 at 12:59 pm 137
@Patiently Waiting: Eventually we’ll have to open the immigration flood gates anyways. The babyboomers are banking on housing to carry them into their golden years.
When the bubble bursts they’ll have nothing for retirement. I don’t have a problem with housing them in retirement homes and let them sit in their own filth for a few hours a day. But they have a lot of votes.
And they will use their voting privileges to get benefits for themselves.
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May 5th, 2012 at 1:04 pm 138
@Anonymous: …Telus Gardens buyers being 99% locals which seemed pretty factual…..
Ya, except that apparently Telus Gardens is only really about 1/4 sold so it’s a bit premature to come to any conclusions about who’s buying. You’d think they’d have figured that out before using it as some sort of a convincing ‘fact’.
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May 5th, 2012 at 1:07 pm 139
@Harry Wang: Opening the floodgates isn’t going to bring back the housing bubble. It takes many years, often decades, for a new wave immigrants to buy in a time of tightened credit.
In the meantime, there is increased demand on medicare which the Boomers are getting worried about.
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May 5th, 2012 at 1:21 pm 140
@Patiently Waiting: We don’t have immigration programs because we are a generous and welcoming people.
We have immigration because of dollars and cents. Canada has a demographic problem (too many old people consuming tax dollars, not enough young people paying tax. it’s old news, we all know the story). This problem will be much worse when the housing bubble bursts and boomers are bankrupt.
Opening the flood gates won’t do anything for bringing back housing, but it will make the demographics a bit better by having more working tax payers to wipe the boomer’s asses.
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May 5th, 2012 at 1:31 pm 141
@N:
M’kay, N. You go first.
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May 5th, 2012 at 2:01 pm 142
@Bob123:
The real point is that in a falling market you DON’T KNOW whether the market is going to continue to go down after you buy. That also works the other way, in a rising market you don’t know if it’s going to continue to go up after you buy.
What you DO know is whether buying is cheaper than renting when you buy.
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May 5th, 2012 at 3:42 pm 143
@Harry Wang:
We’re American seniors just to dumb to use their political power to have house prices re-inflated?
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May 5th, 2012 at 3:46 pm 144
@De La Riva guard:
Oh, I have nothing against buying. I’m planning to stay put for a while and I’m fond of handyman stuff. If it ever makes sense compared to renting, I’ll buy, and I really wont care what the market does. In the meanwhile, there is nothing wrong with renting while it is the most financially sensible choice.
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May 5th, 2012 at 4:14 pm 145
@Anonymous: That’s a good question. I’m told by friends and family that the Chinese method of investing (in real estate) is different, and by inference superior, to the North American method. Arguments like NA investors don’t invest for the long term, don’t understand how much value families in Asia place in land, a mistrust of equity markets, all signs that somehow the valuation game has changed and lower rental yields are here to stay.
Then there are the more subtle comments about cultural superiority, the Asian work ethic, and a belief that China’s hegemony will continue to expand and eat the developed world up for all these enviable traits. This somehow validates the concentration on real estate as a derivative of China’s relentless ascent, after years chained in the wilderness it is now free.
The bubble, for some, is fulfilling a long-standing belief that things are changing and the global political centroid is on the move. High prices in Vancouver and other cities with strong ties to China are tied to more than money, they are tied to jingoism and in some cases atonement for what is seen as past western excesses. This is little more than justifying past price movements as permanent, but is a powerful message and easy to believe for many.
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May 5th, 2012 at 4:23 pm 146
Update on the New Paradigm
Well today was interesting. We left the house for an hour for a quick Costco run and when we were about 15 mins away from being home, my 16 year old daughter calls me really upset that some Chinese person just walked into her bedroom :O HER BEDROOM!!!! Apparently he closed the door and went on to wander through the rest of the house, and my son (11) noticed him when he got up from his computer to get his hourly snack and was in what I can only describe as state of shock.. Not every day you see some Chinese dude wandering around your house uninvited and unannounced.
Turns out this was the Realtor. (who’s name for know shall be withheld to protect the guilty, at least until I decide what my next course of action will be.)
Obviously I called the landlord and ripped him a new one. He said that he explicitly told the Realtor that they were not to disturb the tenants. Clearly the Realtor thought since our car was gone he would just waltz right in. :-O
We have an inspection scheduled tomorrow so the only thing that saved that Realtors a$$ from the cops being called was the fact that I needed a few minutes to confirm the inspection date and speak to the landlord.
All the while my daughter stood in her room scissors in hand ready to strike.
I definitely see a complaint being filed in the near future for trespass against this Realtor.
What would you do in this situation?
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May 5th, 2012 at 4:42 pm 147
@N: “We’re American seniors just to dumb to use their political power to have house prices re-inflated?”
USA is a very different place. Money is more important than votes.
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May 5th, 2012 at 4:44 pm 148
Foreign buyers not gobbling up Vancouver houses
Facts show less than four per cent are from outside Canada
Read more: http://www.vancourier.com/business/Foreign+buyers+gobbling+Vancouver+houses/6564490/story.html#ixzz1u2erjpl0
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May 5th, 2012 at 4:51 pm 149
@Harry Wang:
It’s different here. Got it!
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May 5th, 2012 at 4:52 pm 150
@xyz:
Why just file a complaint with the RE board? Sue the realtor in court for damage for trespass. It’s a slam dunk case for you. The realtor will simply settle early in the lawsuit.
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May 5th, 2012 at 5:39 pm 151
Alright folks, I need a little tenancy agreement advice. I have been after my landlord to fix some broken tiles in the kitchen from a water leak. There are now several broken ones with sharp pieces continually coming off. The building is having some renovation work done as many of the units are being updated.
I have been trying for several weeks to get the landlords (as it is family run) to discuss the long over due repair. I just learned from one of the contractors that the landlord entered my unit without notice or permission this morning to look at the tiles. Rather than communicate with me, he decided to just check things out for himself.
This is a huge violation of my privacy and rights as a tenant. I am more than mad at the moment, but I wanted to see if any of you bears have had similar experiences and what your recourse was.
By the way, I have been a longstanding tenant in excellent standing, and the landlords were extremely appreciative when I notified them of the leak because of the potential for serious damage. However, this failure to communicate has become a recent trend as every phone call is never returned and some requests just end up getting taken care of (again without letting me know).
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May 5th, 2012 at 5:40 pm 152
And by the way, the tiles have been broken since the end of November – long overdue. They wanted me to given them notice of when I went away before they did the work (requires 24 hours apparently), but I finally said I am never going away and want them fixed.
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May 5th, 2012 at 6:04 pm 153
@xyz: File a complaint with the RECBC. That’s the regulatory agency for realtors. Don’t bother to file anything with the local real estate board– they work for realtors, not for the public.
Link: http://www.recbc.ca/complaints/complaint.html
@DR: Visit the RTO (rto.gov.bc.ca). The landlord has to give you advance warning of their entry into your unit, except in the case of emergency repairs. Evidently the tiles weren’t an emergency if they’ve been broken for the last 6 months, so the landlord’s entry is a violation of your rights as a tenant.
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May 5th, 2012 at 6:14 pm 154
@xyz: I’d kick the shit out of him. Plain and simple.
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May 5th, 2012 at 6:39 pm 155
RE: I’d kick the shit out of him. Plain and simple.
If we managed to get there before he left the property believe me, my boyfriend who is super protective of my daughter would have… He doesn’t like smarmy Realtors to begin with…
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May 5th, 2012 at 8:40 pm 156
@makaya
I agree re no pricing data, but they did disclose comparative dollar volume and it looked like you might be actually able to infer an increase in average price. But it would depend on the mix of property types and areas for example. In any case basically no change in moi year over year still seems bad and likely to get worse.
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May 5th, 2012 at 9:47 pm 157
@xyz: That realtor left himself at risk of all kinds of legal danger. An adult male walking into the bedroom of a teenage girl? HOLY CRAP. The guy is either totally demented or your landlord is lying to you about what he told the realtor. Don’t believe anything your landlord says either.
How did the realtor react when your kids spotted him?
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May 5th, 2012 at 11:19 pm 158
@xyz: So a dude wanders into your house, terrorizes your children, and you’re wondering what to do?
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May 6th, 2012 at 6:02 am 159
[...] you really think things could change? This is Vancouver. Woman: No…uhhghgh… maybe, who knows? – jumpin in at VCI 4 may 9:26pm Share:TwitterFacebookRedditStumbleUponDigg This entry was posted in 01. He Said, She Said, 06. [...]
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May 6th, 2012 at 10:45 am 160
@xyz
You entitle your comment “The New Paradigm”. Indeed. I hope you get that guy and your landlord into lots of trouble over this. Pursue it with the relevant authorities, including police. Even if your landlord apologizes profusely, let it be known to the general public which real estate outfit he/she is working with. This needs to see the light of day. Your story encapsulates so much of what has gone haywire in real estate related behaviour.
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May 6th, 2012 at 11:06 am 161
@VariableName
Yes, if the Realtor in question does not at least lose his license, this puppy is going viral.
Under no circumstances is this acceptable behavior.
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May 6th, 2012 at 11:40 am 162
@xyz: can you share his name? Im astounded that anyone, realtor or not, would make such a stupid move.
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May 6th, 2012 at 11:49 am 163
Anonymous
re: Name.. For now I am not posting publicly as I don’t want the a$$hat to turn around and accuse me of slander (even though it would be unfounded) If you have an email to post here I can share the information privately..
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May 6th, 2012 at 11:56 am 164
@xyz: What’s most amazing is the guy kept wandering your home AFTER he ran across your daughter. Either he should be charged with criminal trespass (and harrassment) or your landlord lied to him by telling him you gave permission. Do you trust your landlord’s word on this?
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May 6th, 2012 at 12:02 pm 165
@Patiently Waiting
Yeah I agree… Duh people are in the house you aren’t supposed to be in. GET OUT ASAP.
I do believe my landlords, they were just as pissed off as we were, and called the Realtor and gave them an earful. This in my opinion is a firing offence, but when you are already deluded enough to sell your over priced Van Special to buy and even more overpriced circa 2011 Van Special then common sense doesn’t really factor so much.
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May 6th, 2012 at 12:05 pm 166
@Patiently Waiting: Actually, I take back, trespass is trespass. For example, if you unknowingly walk onto someone’s property without permission, you can still be charged with trespass. So the real estate agent was totally trespassing no matter what.
Still, from my personal experience and from hearing the many tales from others, you can’t believe a word that comes out of your landlord’s mouth once your home is on the market. He may pretend to care about you or the law, but the only thing running through his mind is dollar signs.
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May 6th, 2012 at 12:08 pm 167
@xyz: “a firing offence” That should go without saying. Your daughter, who was arming herself with scissors, will never feel comfortable with that guy around your home. If your landlord hasn’t already fired the agent, that tells you a lot.
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May 6th, 2012 at 12:24 pm 168
Whether the landlord gave permission or not is immaterial as WE did not give permission, as renters we have exclusive right to possession, which means NO ONE, not even the owner can enter without 24 hours notices, except in emergency situations.
But ya you are right.. the almighty $$
Anyways.. the Realtor just came in here to talk to the inspector and tried to ‘apologize’ again and pin it on his assistant. I said not too worry a complaint will be filed. I suspect he will get no more than a slap on the wrist considering his reaction of “That’s Fine”
Then he got the hell out of here.. as he should.
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May 6th, 2012 at 12:36 pm 169
@xyz: “That’s Fine” – cripes, he’s just asking for it.
Looking at this http://www.recbc.ca/complaints/discipline.html it is quite obvious that you are correct, it will just be a slap on the wrist.
So, yeah, criminal charges and “going viral” might be the thing to do.
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May 6th, 2012 at 12:40 pm 170
@Patiently Waiting:
The police will not lay charges if he was given the key by the landlord. If he thought he was authorized to enter there was no criminal intent.
Your best bet is probably to lay a civil suit against both the landlord and the agent.
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May 6th, 2012 at 12:46 pm 171
@patriotz
The Landlord said he did not give him a key to our unit, he entered via a common door that goes from the Landlords suite to our suite. There is no lock on this door except for a Latch that can be easily jiggled open.
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May 6th, 2012 at 12:50 pm 172
@patriotz,
Question: I’m not sure a person could argue that there was no criminal intent. Correct me if I’m wrong (I have no legal background):
First: Suppose for the sake of argument and likely contrary to fact that he WAS given a key. Now: being given a key to a property does not license access at any time day or night does it? It can still be trespassing if you enter a property at a wrong time, even if you have permission to enter it at certain times. Regardless, consider: the crime in question is trespassing, therefore the relevant “intent” in question would be the intent to trespass. The guy entering the house sees that there are young people in the house who are acting scared and alarmed. Yet he stays in the house (saying not a word to them, apparently). How can that not be expressing an INTENT to tresspass? He stays despite obvious resistance to his being there.
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May 6th, 2012 at 12:57 pm 173
@xyz:
Sounds like justifiable homicide to me.
Where do you drop the realtors corpse off in this situation – Cam Muir’s house?
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May 6th, 2012 at 1:55 pm 174
@xyz: “There is no lock on this door except for a Latch that can be easily jiggled open.”
So I hope your landlord is putting a lock on your door, once he gets off the phone from firing his agent.
As for criminal versus civil? Let the police decide. File a report, because you still don’t know exactly who this Asian guy was. An assistant? Maybe some crackhead hired off Craigslist for minimum wage? Who knows. Maybe he stole something.
If it is civil, you should include the Managing Broker of the real estate agency because they are legally responsible for the conduct of anyone working for that agency. We’re talking people with professional and community reputations who might want to deal with matters quickly and quietly.
http://www.recbc.ca/licensing/managingbroker.html
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May 6th, 2012 at 1:59 pm 175
@Patiently Waiting
Some great advice, thank you!
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May 6th, 2012 at 2:24 pm 176
@xyz: Good luck. My heart goes out to you.
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May 6th, 2012 at 3:27 pm 177
Interesting post by Mish Shedlock: “New American Dream is Renting”
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May 6th, 2012 at 3:32 pm 178
Interesting letter this week from HSBC as well – they are “winding down” their consumer finance business which is “in the business of offering private label credit cards, and near prime credit and mortgage products”.
Getting the jump on changes in mortgage insurance maybe?
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May 6th, 2012 at 4:33 pm 179
I’m considering sending this great response to my question to all the airhead landlords on Craigslist…hehe
http://landlordrescue.ca/tenants-ask-questions-about-affordable-housing/#comments
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May 6th, 2012 at 5:29 pm 180
@Guy Smiley:
Mish is very good at expressing concepts in a nutshell.
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May 6th, 2012 at 5:29 pm 181
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/sky-high-housing-prices-in-vancouvers-west-side-short-lived/article2424414/?utm_medium=Feeds%3A%20RSS%2FAtom&utm_source=Home&utm_content=2424414
“I always thought that market was not sustainable. Every local person was juiced out of the market. The average household income on the west side doesn’t support those prices,” said Andrew Hasman, who specializes in single-family homes on the west side.
Talk about talking out of both sides of your mouth. When the market was red hot they were saying, buy now or be priced out forever, now they’re saying it’s a good thing the prices are going down cuz the prices in the west end were unsustainable.
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May 6th, 2012 at 5:50 pm 182
@xyz: “he entered via a common door that goes from the Landlords suite to our suite. There is no lock on this door”
Not that I like realtors but if the realtor had permission to enter in the upstairs and the downstairs was not locked and connected he has permission to go there too. If you rent a place and did not ask to have a lock on the door it is your own fault IMO. Leaving your place unlocked from god knows who might be upstairs seems pretty negligent on your part. Especially considering you leave your kids home alone. You are lucky it was only a realtor wandering in. If you called the police they might charge you and take your kids away.
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May 6th, 2012 at 6:02 pm 183
Re the landlord entering the unit. My advice is just talk to him and ask him to let you know beforehand. From my experience entering units is considered acceptable by many tenants who are new to Canada because either they don’t know the law, are afraid of consequences of raising a stink, or trust the landlord not to care.
The RTO will likely ask if you talked to the landlord first in an attempt to come to an amicable resolution.
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May 6th, 2012 at 6:03 pm 184
Jean Zhang, with Sutton Group, said her clients, who tend to be immigrants looking to settle here permanently, are waiting longer to make offers.
“A few months ago, people were thinking, ‘I have to get in right away,’ ” she said. “Now, they see there are lots of choices. And they are giving lowball bids. They want to have good bargains in this market.”
Hilarious. If they want good bargains better wait another 40%.
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May 6th, 2012 at 6:14 pm 185
@Anonymous
RE: the Child Services Garbage.
You couldn’t find a court in the land that would object to a 16 year old and an 11 year home alone with ALL THE doors unlocked.
Believe it or not there are many areas of this country where it is CUSTOMARY to leave your front door unlocked because the people around you respect your privacy and rights to safety in your own home.
This locking ourselves as humans up in jail like structures is a highly urban and new phenomenon.
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May 6th, 2012 at 6:15 pm 186
@Anonymous
PS. The Realtor was EXPLICITLY TOLD NOT TO ENTER THE TENANTED PROPERTY
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May 6th, 2012 at 6:40 pm 187
@Anonymous
What dystopian urban nightmare fantasyland did you grow up in where home invasion is not only ok if the door is unlocked but people who live there can get their kids removed if it happens and they’re home alone?
Also, he was trying to get away with a quick look around and got caught. It’s straightforward. No one is saying he was there to rape, rob, or use the toilet. He just should not have been in there at all, regardless of intent, full stop.
And ya, if we’d gotten home five minutes sooner and he was still there he would have a “For Sale” sign lodged someplace in his person well out of sight from polite viewing.
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May 6th, 2012 at 6:56 pm 188
@Anonymous: “Not that I like realtors but if the realtor had permission to enter in the upstairs and the downstairs was not locked and connected he has permission to go there too. ”
are you a lawyer? if not, get the fuck out with your crappy advice.
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May 6th, 2012 at 7:19 pm 189
“Banks are now requiring borrowers to disclose incomes and assets before mortgages are approved, as of the last six weeks,” said west-side realtor Marty Pospischil, who specializes in selling single-family homes owned by long-term residents”
Nope, no sub prime ever existed here..
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May 6th, 2012 at 8:56 pm 190
@s: ….A house on the 3000 block of West 24th Anenue, first listed at near $4.5-million six months ago, sold on April 15 for $3.35-million…..
Hmmm, that’s a drop of 26%! So much for the soft landing. Realistically, how much you want a bet the last sale price for the inevitable dump mentioned was actually considerably less than 3.35M. The point is, when greed asking prices are factored in, this market has to drop about 80% from asking prices before things get back to normal.
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May 6th, 2012 at 8:59 pm 191
@McLovin: …..“A few months ago, people were thinking, ‘I have to get in right away,’ ” she said. “Now, they see there are lots of choices. And they are giving lowball bids. They want to have good bargains in this market.”
Translation: I have a history of really stupid fucking clients, and even though the obvious is dangling in their faces, they’re still too fucking stupid to see the forest for the trees.
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May 6th, 2012 at 9:03 pm 192
@Anonymous: this is a troll right? I know I’m not supposed to respond to a troll, but just in case you actually are a really stupid person I’ll correct you. The landlord or realtor have no right to enter a property in a non-emergency situation without 24 hour notice. Full stop.
It does not matter if the doors are locked or not, it doesn’t matter if the window can be jimmied open with a pry bar or the chimney can be climbed down. They have no legal right to enter the property.
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May 6th, 2012 at 9:03 pm 193
@vangrl: …. said west-side realtor Marty Pospischil, who specializes in selling single-family homes owned by long-term residents”…..
Seems to me that Marty specializes in selling homes to folks that don’t seem to be able to demonstrate they have an income.
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May 6th, 2012 at 9:06 pm 194
@vangrl: “Marty Pospischil, who specializes in selling single-family homes owned by long-term residents”
Could someone explain to me the difference in sales strategy between selling a home for some common Joe and selling a home for a ‘long-term resident’?
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May 6th, 2012 at 9:52 pm 195
@xyz: “PS. The Realtor was EXPLICITLY TOLD NOT TO ENTER THE TENANTED PROPERTY”
If there is no lock and no sign on the door that says tented property how is a person who is allowed to go in one area of the house supposed to know which part is tenanted and off limits? Often basements are not tenanted, some are split up and others have shared areas used by both. If you keep the place unlocked you can expect anyone to wander in who might be upstairs. That may be a visitor, a contractor or a realtor. You are just lucky it was not a child predator. Anyone with half a brain would have a lock on the door.
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May 6th, 2012 at 9:57 pm 196
@Curtis: “It does not matter if the doors are locked or not, it doesn’t matter if the window can be jimmied open with a pry bar or the chimney can be climbed down. They have no legal right to enter the property.”
Wrong. If there is no indication of a separate dwelling on the door then they can enter. Walking through an unlocked door inside a house is different than jimmying a window or climbing down a chimney. Ever walked in a bathroom when someone was in there? Who’s fault is it, yours or the person who didn’t lock the door?
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May 6th, 2012 at 9:58 pm 197
@SFU DUDE: “are you a lawyer? if not, get the fuck out with your crappy advice.”
Yes I am a lawyer. My bill is in the mail.
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May 6th, 2012 at 10:13 pm 198
@Anonymous: “Could someone explain to me the difference in sales strategy between selling a home for some common Joe and selling a home for a ‘long-term resident’?”
“Long-term residents” is realtor-jargon for “white people”. Marty Pospischil specializes in selling homes for white people.
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May 6th, 2012 at 10:15 pm 199
@Anonymous
Let me provide the ENTIRE quote which you conveniently left out the bit about “except for a Latch that can be easily jiggled open.”
There is no lock on this door except for a Latch that can be easily jiggled open.>/i>
So you are saying its NOT OK to jimmy a window LATCH open, but its perfectly FINE to jimmy a door latch open?
As a lawyer you must have a lot of collectors calling since clearly you aren’t worth the paper your degree is printed on (though clearly you are no lawyer)
And the Realtor was FULLY AWARE of where the Rental Unit began and ended. Aside from that ignorance is never a defense. But since you are a lawyer you knew that right?
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May 6th, 2012 at 10:18 pm 200
@Curtis
Definitely a Troll… or more likely a Realtor… hard to tell the difference really…
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May 6th, 2012 at 10:31 pm 201
@ UnagiDon 198
No, Unagi. The expression “long time resident” means someone who lived there many years, maybe 30 or 40 years or more. I’m betting he sells the houses of people who have died, or who are moving to rest homes.
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May 6th, 2012 at 10:36 pm 202
Dalai Lama doing a classic ‘hoocoodanode’!!!
http://beta.images.theglobeandmail.com/archive/01400/web-dalai-lama__1400573cl-8.jpg
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May 6th, 2012 at 11:31 pm 203
@xyz: “except for a Latch that can be easily jiggled open.”
What is a latch? The door was either locked or it wasn’t. If there was a latch on your side of the door that the realtor jiggled open that is break and enter and you should have called the police immediately.
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May 7th, 2012 at 5:14 pm 204
@Observer: HONOURED to be let into a country, and felt obligated to do their best in that country and give back where they could
Wait a second. I paid for the entrance. If you want “HONOUR”, you should have chosen and invited me (or denied entry) based on my skills/talent/ethics, not on the size of my bank account.
Your gov chose money over “HONOUR”. It did not want to know how I made enough for the entry fee or the downpayment.
“HONOUR” was never, ever mentioned in the immigration process. It’s not a criterion that got me here.
“Give back”? I am paying taxes, buying Canadian, using Canadian cell phones, paying Canadian banks the fees they charge, buying books in Canadian stores, using Canadian gas stations. What else do you want?
If you want “HONOUR”, let people immigrate all they want, they let communities decide whether they will or will not accept newcomers. As long as there is government AND money, forget “HONOUR”.
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