Mortgage brokers warn about new rules

Canadian mortgage brokers are freaking out about new refinancing rules proposed by the OSFI which has taken over responsibility for the CMHC. Reasonably enough, they’re asking for clarification about proposals to require banks to check income and current house value before refinancing.

Currently, when mortgages come up for renewal, banks tend to focus on the borrower’s payment history. They rarely appraise the property again and not all banks will check the borrower’s updated income level, Mr. Murphy said.

“CAAMP strongly recommends that this concept be clarified so that mortgages continue to be renewed at maturity without requalification,” the industry association said in a submission to the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions (OSFI).

“If not, homeowners who have been in compliance may no longer qualify. This would result in a number of properties hitting the market at the same time and thereby driving down prices.”

Such a phenomenon could add further fuel to a real estate downturn if lower house prices and higher unemployment caused more people to lose their homes upon renewal, Mr. Murphy suggested.

Read the full article in the Globe and Mail.

78 Responses to “Mortgage brokers warn about new rules”

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    Anonymous Says:
    1

    OSFI’s won’t be accepted by the government because they are risking their power base of homeowners who compose of 60% percent of the population in this country.Don’t worry of such minor huccup by those idiots.

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    What CAAMP is calling out is that severe recessions or economic downturns can cause acute, but temporary, income distress and that can exacerbate a recession if the guidelines are strictly adhered to. I think there is credence to this, but as M- pointed out in the last thread this doesn’t negate the validity of the guideline, rather there need only be temporary flexibility in requalifying a loan if a borrower hits a rough patch.

    That is reasonable for acute events but is dangerous for chronic ones. That is, if someone qualifies at the start of a term and suffers a longer term income impairment (say… their income relies on the turnover of housing and the market in which they operate seizes for a prolonged period, but can also extend to striking workers and those on disability) there needs to be some accountability that, if things don’t improve quickly, the loan needs to be called.

    Flexibility but timely resolution of impairment seems fair, and to be frank it’s a much needed wake-up call for Canadians that their country is under new management.

    Think of it as some carefully measured back-to-work legislation. ;)

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    Here are the proposed rules: http://www.osfi-bsif.gc.ca/app/DocRepository/1/eng/guidelines/sound/guidelines/b20_dft_e.pdf

    I really don’t think the new rules imply requalification for the renewal. They expect banks to reassess a borrowers position at renewal, but there are other reasons for doing so because it changes the bond, insurance and capital requirements of the bank based on the ongoing status of their portfolio. Under the old rules of an ever rising market, the bank could assume LTVs only go up and prime mortgages always remain prime forever. Falling market, falling employment, OSFI rightly realizes that will no longer be so.

    Simple example would be: 1, borrower puts down 20% and gets a 1 year mortgage with no insurance. Once year later, the house value has slipped and the mortgage is now at 85% loan to value. The loan can no longer be put in a bond issue, for example (heck, maybe it needs to be remedied by someone if it is already in a bond issue, no idea on that…)

    Anyway, from my read on this, the OSFI just wants the bank to keep proper track of their portfolio. Now, the bank might decide the borrower has to make good on renewal to bring the mortgage back into LTV compliance. But that will lead to enough distress I expect that will be rare. I have no idea what CMHC would do with a claim like that from the bank. Well, upon renewal, the owner who had been making their payments all along, couldn’t cough up 30k to bring the LTV back to 80% so, here, cover us for the whole thing.

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    For regular commenters and posters here, it’s worth going over the Canadian mortgage primer document TD put out 2 years ago. Link through my post here:
    http://housing-analysis.blogspot.ca/2012/05/canadian-mortgage-market-primer-and.html

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    Flip Flop Says:
    5

    Aren’t the banks well within their rights to do all of this stuff already? There’s nothing saying that a bank can’t check income and reappraise upon renewal, for a customer that had a spotless payment history, is there?

    I wonder if this will have any immediate effect, as the banks take the OSFI’s proposal into consideration, and adjust their current policies on renewals.

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    @AG Sage: “the OSFI just wants the bank to keep proper track of their portfolio”

    They are almost certainly keeping proper track of their portfolio based on their own self interest. My bet is the reason the OSFI is suggesting this measure is because of gaps uncovered in their spot audits last year.

    As I mentioned yesterday if the topic of discussion were business loans, the bank would almost certainly require the borrower to requalify on renewal.

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    Bull! Bull! Bull! Says:
    7

    How’s the inventory? Same as May 2010?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    chipshot Says:
    8

    Anyone who thinks the banks won’t play nasty on the way down is clearly delusional. Once the higher ups put the pressure on to weed out those who have shaky employment and especially those found to have originally qualified with shaky employment and don’t meet the new specs, will be in for a major wake up call. You only need a 20% increase in listings to change the landscape of this market, we all know it’s sitting on the edge of a cliff waiting for the last nudge.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Stupid Landlords Says:
    9

    @ Bull! Bull! Bull!

    Yep. How are sales? Same as 2010?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    chipshot Says:
    10

    Speaking of delusional, this didn’t work out too well in the 80’s and 90’s when there were no HELOC’s. Someone is seriously off their meds.

    “For instance, despite record high levels of household debt, DBRS argued that Canadian households have net worth that could withstand a property value decline of 40%.”

    Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/business/Rising+mortgage+debt+rendering+Canadian+households+stretched+thin+DBRS/6672226/story.html#ixzz1vnsuVItt

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    patriotz patriotz Says:
    11

    @Flip Flop:
    “Aren’t the banks well within their rights to do all of this stuff already?”

    Of course. The outstanding principal becomes due and payable at renewal time and the banks have the right to ask for their money back.

    But the banks want to keep getting interest rather than foreclosing. That’s what they made the loan for. Especially when the mortgage is insured and they don’t have to worry about getting the principal back anyway.

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    Troll Says:
    12

    @jesse:

    They are almost certainly keeping proper track of their portfolio based on their own self interest.

    What exactly is their self interest for insured mortgages? I think that’s what the OFSI stuff is getting at, forcing banks to be more prudent around loans where they don’t bear any risk. That said, I’d be very surprised if they push banks to foreclose on properties. Just scare-mongering at this point.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    With regards to the CMHC-Class-Action person (the guy who was foreclosed on, had CMHC pursue him for the deficiency, and now wants to start a class-action lawsuit against CMHC), I thought that there had to be more to the story, so I looked into the guy a little deeper (the internet has an amazing wealth of information!)

    In 1996, he bought a new condo in Surrey for about $155K (plus CMHC fees). He put $7K down, and so had a mortgage of about $150K. He was foreclosed in 2001.

    Last year (2011), he sued CMHC and National Bank for fraud related to the documents that they filed in the course of issuing him a mortgage and transferring ownership of the property. He also says the court has no jurisdiction over people, because it was created by people. The judge basically tossed him out of court and called him crazy. He still maintains that the courts don′t have jurisdiction.

    The Judge′s summary of the lawsuit (and CMHC′s motion to dismiss) is online here:
    http://bcjustice.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5869

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    fixie guy Says:
    14

    12 Troll Says: ” I think that’s what the OFSI stuff is getting at, forcing banks to be more prudent around loans where they don’t bear any risk.”

    Banks are prudent and don’t make these loans without being backstopped. This is about making the government/CMHC more prudent in a manner that tries to avoid taking responsibility for creating this national financial train wreck. Just more tainted politics…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @fixie guy:

    Just more tainted politics…

    Well, I guess when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like tainted politics.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    jumpin in Says:
    16

    Examples of recent price changes in van East:
    V947361
    -$50,000

    V946956
    -$10,000

    V932145
    -$10,000

    V920654
    -$20,000

    Owner are still dreaming…
    On the positive side, it is the peak season and looks like a buyer’s market.

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    space889 Says:
    17

    @jesse: What you say makes a lot of sense. However my experiences is that when there are rules, common sense and flexibility at the front lines tend to go out of the windows and the only tool that’s left for the front line workers and low/mid level decision makers is a big hammer. When you only have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail waiting to be nailed….

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    Bull! Bull! Bull! Says:
    18

    @Stupid Landlords: I don’t know, you tell me. I assume sales are lower, otherwise you wouldn’t have posted that question.

    But if inventory is the same as 2010 and sales are lower than 2010 then new listings must also be lower.

    Isn’t inventory the stat that matters? Correct me if I’m wrong. Obviously, I don’t know as much about real estate and am not as wise as all of you.

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    fixie guy Says:
    19

    15 Troll Says: “Well, I guess when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like tainted politics.”

    Thx for another concise and detailed rebuff. Keeps the wit sharp. You haven’t compromised your debating standards one bit.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    suspectum Says:
    20

    Could anyone help me find out about this listing: it seems very odd to renovate a 50 year old house from the ground up in condo-crazy poco. When was this first listed? Has the price been reduced? How could I check on that? Why wouldn’t they have torn it down when everywhere else they demolish brandnew places to build “bigger, better, higher”?
    2868 COAST MERIDIAN RD
    Port Coquitlam

    http://www.realtor.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?&PropertyId=11939783&PidKey=-542343134

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Chem Guy Says:
    21

    @M-: Ha, I read the court document and couldn’t help laughing at the name of the developer “Triple 8″; wonder who they were hoping to cater to?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    New inventory graph:
    http://vancouverpeak.com/groups/data-hounds/forum/topic/may-2012-daily-numbers/?topic_page=2&num=15#post-2417

    Inventory is back into the 10 year record level territory – but just barely.

    Over the last month the average daily increase was: 60
    At this rate we will reach 19,000 in 6 days (May-30-12)
    At this rate we will reach 20,000 in 23 days (Jun-16-12)
    and 25,000 by September 8, 2012

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Bull! Bull! Bull! Says:
    23

    @b5baxter: Hi, thanks for posting that graph. Is there any reason to think that we won’t have the same fall off in inventory that was seen in 2010?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Not much of a name... Says:
    24

    @Bull! Bull! Bull!: Is there any reason why the inventory won’t track either 2011 or 2008 where inventory peaked in the fall (Sep/Oct)?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    space889 Says:
    25

    Oh yeah, on a side note, on last night’s Real Housewives of Vancouver, Jody was commenting that Mary shouldn’t be shopping at a private shopping event because she’s not ultra-wealthy. One reason/supporting fact? Mary lives in a rented condo! Yes, someone who lives in a rented condo cannot possibly be rich or worthy to attend a private shopping event. In response, another “housewife” Christina also admits to living in a rented condo.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Bull! Bull! Bull! Says:
    26

    @Not much of a name…: Hi Not much of a name,

    That’s a really good point. Other than 2008 being the year of economic crisis, I see no reason why it can’t peak in (Sep/Oct) as it did in 2011.

    I suppose the point is that we can’t predict the future. On this blog we’ve seen people fail at predicting the future year, after year.

    Now, banks and major economists are warning about high prices and coming pull backs. They’ve been bullish until now – and right.

    I guess we’ll see if they are right again this year. If they are, their record will continue to be a lot better than some people on this blog.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @suspectum: Interesting find there, Suspectum. That seems to be the cheapest (or among the cheapest) non-strata SFHs in that area. Further to your questions of why-didn’t-they-knock-it-down-and-rebuild, my question is: “why is this completely-renovated/rebuilt house the cheapest one in the neighbourhood?”

    Seriously– shouldn’t crappy old houses be asking less money than an old house that’s been fully renovated? Renovations are neither cheap nor free, and should add at least *some* value to the property. But that doesn’t seem to be the case here. And if they were stripping it down to the studs, why did they leave such tiny windows– shouldn’t they have made the windows a bit bigger?

    Is the market so horrible there that they’ve had to discount the house massively, hoping to find a buyer? Are the renos of such poor quality that it scares buyers off? Is there something crazy-wrong with the location?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @Chem Guy: My only comment about the developer’s name is that it’s probably got that name because of its owners, rather than the target market. And keep in mind that the property was sold in 1996, so it wasn’t exactly aimed at the current crop of specuvestors (allegedly mainland Chinese, though I doubt that the China effect has nearly as big an influence as the media has led us to believe).

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Not much of a name... Says:
    29

    @Bull! Bull! Bull!:

    I suppose the point is that we can’t predict the future. On this blog we’ve seen people fail at predicting the future year, after year.

    The sad part is that there are great number of people that are also making predictions about the future of RE simply by making a purchase with the expectation that prices will continue to rise at the rate they have over the last 10 years. I wish them well. If they are wrong just once, be it this year, the next or the one after that, it will not end well for some.

    I’ve been in the position to purchase only in the last five. I’ve chosen to continue to rent for a number of reasons and I have invested some of my down payment into my business. This choice has worked out well for me to date and for the foreseeable future. If I am wrong about RE and prices continue to rise, oh well, my money is still working for me and my monthly costs to rent are still lower than owning.

    My long term plans are still on track just the same.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    ZRH2YVR Says:
    30

    #23 – – That’s a good question. I was asking myself the same question. Right now, we are more on track with 2008 but should not see the same fall in sales in the fall which were caused by specific market shocks.

    So I went to the stats for the following.
    In 2010, listings in Jul-SEp were 44% below those of Apr-Jun. That is a seasonally large decrease. We typically do not have this and it was partly due to a large rush to the market post Olympics. We don’t have any special “rush” this year so we would expect the rate of listings slowdown to be more in the 25% range. This puts less downward pressure on the inventory.

    On the sales side, sales for the Jul-Sep months were approx 1/3 below the Apr-Jun levels in 2010. That’s actually a bit worse than normal but because listings slowed so much, inventory levels fell.

    With an expected sales decrease of 25% for the Summer compared to Spring, which is more normal, combined with the normal listings slowdown above, we will not have the same curve as 2010. Based on the sales / list model, our inventory this year will top-out about 12% above where we are today which would be approx 20,000 detached and attached. This is above the highs of 2008 but unless sales completely stop, we will not see MOI get much above 10 (but it should exceed 10).

    This is a very poor market but it is not a crash.

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    Anonymous Says:
    31

    @AG Sage: “Well, upon renewal, the owner who had been making their payments all along, couldn’t cough up 30k to bring the LTV back to 80% so, here, cover us for the whole thing”
    That got me thinking. Interesting how you don’t need MI if you have 20% DP, yet if you’re less than 20% DP, you need MI on the entire mortgage. Why wouldn’t you only need MI on the difference between your actual DP and 20%. Eg. If you by a $1mil house and you have a 5%, $50,000 DP, your CMHC insurance would be for $150,000 and not $950,000 under this scenario. Then it would be up to the bank to insure the rest under portfolio insurance, should they so choose.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Patiently Waiting Says:
    32

    @suspectum: Take a look at the picture of the back of the house. They didn’t finish the project. So this is likely someone who went crazy updating the old homestead, and ran out of HELOC. Just some dumbass homoaner, not a spec developer.

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    @M-:

    According to the Judge’s ruling, not only was the case without merit, it was downright insulting.

    [30] Parties should not be discouraged from litigating legitimate actions. Here, the plaintiffs’ allegations were utterly and obviously without merit. I find the plaintiffs’ allegations of fraud against the defendants amount to reprehensible conduct that is worthy of rebuke. I am satisfied that an award of special costs is appropriate given the circumstances of this case.

    [31] This matter has already occupied considerable court resources. I thus find it appropriate to order payment of special costs by the plaintiffs to the defendant CMHC in a lump-sum amount of $4,000 pursuant to Rule 14-1, payable forthwith.

    pwned.

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    Anonymous Says:
    34

    @M-: It was probably a grow-op, and the reason it was stripped down was probably due to moisture damage.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @Bull! Bull! Bull!: My feeling is that the current climate is more like 2008 than 2010 and that we will see inventory continue to climb and peak later in the year. But I can’t say for sure. The next month should give us an indication.

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    Makaya Makaya Says:
    36

    OK guys,

    I told you about this article I wrote for LEAP last month (let me know if you want a copy). I got a call this morning from Radio Canada (in French) wanting to interview me about this article. I agreed and I just got off the interview. The journalist seemed a bit shocked at my predictions (-15-25% within 3 years, -55% within 10 years) and finished the interview by: I hope you’re not right…

    I guess a few francophone in the lower mainland will be shocked as well…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    37

    @Bull! Bull! Bull!: …..But if inventory is the same as 2010 and sales are lower than 2010 then new listings must also be lower……

    You mastery of logic indicates Real Estate Sales would be a perfect career choice.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    38

    @Bull! Bull! Bull!: …..I suppose the point is that we can’t predict the future. On this blog we’ve seen people fail at predicting the future year, after year…..

    So, if people who bought at the peak, when ‘everyone’ was bullish, see a loss, then did they fail to predict the future or where they just not thinking about it?

    In any case, I’d rather be wrong year after year and save lots of $’s than be poor for the rest of my life.

    By the way, have you closed any sales today?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Bull! Bull! Bull! Says:
    39

    @Anonymous: What’s with the attitude? Is this site a place where people can have intelligent discussions and exchange ideas and thereby benefit everyone?

    Or is it a place for people to bitch about the Chinese and how they can’t keep up with the Joneses.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    jumpin in Says:
    40

    @Makaya
    Thanks for doing it. The French radio has been so bullish lately…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Loser with the girls Says:
    41

    @Makaya
    you have been writing articles for LEAP if I understood you correctly?
    I read few things from them and in my opinion they are very euro biased publication.
    It like reading Christina Science Monitor for any objective analysis. You can’t find it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Loser with the girls Says:
    42

    it should be “Christian” a not “Christina”,.. i should not be drinking this early :)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Makaya Makaya Says:
    43

    @Loser with the girls:

    “you have been writing articles for LEAP if I understood you correctly?”
    I’ve written one about RE in Canada last month, and I’ll write another one about the Canadian economy and politics in 2016 and beyond this autumn.

    “I read few things from them and in my opinion they are very euro biased publication.”

    If euro-based means “not in line with the major US/UK publications (FT, WSJ, Bloomberg, CNBC, etc.)”, then you’re right. They just provide their view from a different perspective. Their main argument is that the US-dominated/US$-centric world we’ve been living in for a century is over, and that the world will see major shifts in the balance of power during the 21st century. They are trying to predict the future based on that assumption.

    To their credit, about 80% of their predictions in the past have materialized, including the GFC which they forecasted in early 2006 (they are forecasting another one for 2013 btw). I also believe they’ll be right about their Canadian RE projections :)

    They are very well respected and, having dealt with them, I believe in their integrity and honesty. The only way they get paid is through subscriptions, so they are totally independent and not tied to corporate interests.

    They are things I don’t necessarily agree with them, and they are willing to accept discussions and welcome alternative views.

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    @Anonymous: Regarding the Coquitlam house, as you mention, it’s possible that it was a grow-op, which required tearing the house down to the studs to make it habitable again.

    But that makes me wonder: if it was a grow-op, wouldn’t they have been better off to just knock the house down and sell the lot to a developer? I mean, it’s a 1964 house– without renos it wouldn’t have much residual value anyway. And no matter what you do to the house, you’ll have to disclose that its history. Now they’ve put a ton of money into renos, and it’s still the cheapest house in the neighbourhood. I can’t imagine that its value as a bare lot would have been so much lower…

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    Loser with the girls Says:
    45

    @Makaya
    “(they are forecasting another one for 2013 ”

    Do you have that article in hand?

    “and I’ll write another one about the Canadian economy and politics in 2016 and beyond”

    2016? why so far? we don’t know if we are going to be alive next year? :)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Arshes76 Says:
    46

    @ Anonymous

    The whole idea ( or at least on them) for the 20% deposit is that the bigger the deposit the more money the buyer has vested in the property, and there less likely to walk if things go bad. The more equity the less likely you are to walk.

    With the a 5% deposit the amount is small in comparison to the mortgage and the value of the house. If things go bad in the future they are more likely to walk.

    EI: $5000 deposit lost or $100,000 mortgage hanging over your head (or more)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Makaya Makaya Says:
    47

    @Loser with the girls:

    You can read more about it on their website. Below is an abstract of their latest issue:

    Debts: difficult to manage sovereign debt and deadly private debt… creditors painfully approach the day of reckoning and people an explosion of anger

    LEAP/E2020 announced it in 2008 and repeated it many times since. There was approximately 30 trillion USD of phantom assets in the world financial system of which about 15 trillion USD remains, which will mostly fly off by the end of 2012. The good news is that as from then, one can seriously contemplate the rebuilding of a healthy world financial system. The bad news is that is during the quarters to come this 15 trillion USD will go up in smoke. That implies, of course, as we have previously suggested, the bankruptcy (and/or rescue by the States) of 10% to 20% of Western banks. And this time, unlike 2008/2009, the shareholders will be the first victims (including in the United States), whatever the priority of their rights (5). Only shareholders carrying significant geopolitical weight will be treated with consideration (sovereign funds, friendly States…).

    “2016? why so far? we don’t know if we are going to be alive next year?”

    The “raison d’etre” of Leap is to make sense of the current world affairs to predict the future. After my first article, they’ve asked me to predict what the economic consequences of the RE burst will be on Canada, from an economical, political and sociologial perspective.

    If you’re willing to provide ideas, I’m more than willing to listen :)

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    Vansanity Says:
    48

    New mortgage rule proposal: don’t allow people to borrow the minimum 5% down. The fuck were they thinking? It’s the same fuckin thing as 0 down. 100% of the cost of the home is borrowed money. Dumbasses! Even CAAMP agrees with that proposal.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    49

    @Arshes76:

    “If things go bad in the future they are more likely to walk. ”

    Why? Mortgages are full recourse in Canada.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    50

    @suspectum: “Why wouldn’t they have torn it down when everywhere else they demolish brandnew places to build “bigger, better, higher”?”

    No idea, but you have to give them bonus points for using the word “pesky” in their listing.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    51

    Re Pending Unemployment Insurance changes” ‘This government would have you believe that they’re sitting there and surfing off the shores of Nova Scotia or skiing in the mountains of British Columbia … it’s not true.’

    Err, I hope that I never have to swear on a stack of Bibles that I’ve never been skiing in British Columbia while collecting UI :)

    Ken’s right of course about folks ‘surfing off the shores of Nova Scotia': no self respecting UI collecting surfer would be caught dead in Nova Scotia when the big waves are at Jordan River.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    52

    @Bull! Bull! Bull!: ….Or is it a place for people to bitch about the Chinese and how they can’t keep up with the Joneses..

    Nope, just a place to bitch about lounging RE agents with little to do but post crap on blogs.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Loser with the girls Says:
    53

    Makaya: “If you’re willing to provide ideas, I’m more than willing to listen”

    you mean ideas about future of Canada after RE crash?

    well the best is to experience it firsthand. I was in Florida in 2009 and one word could describe it “Desperation”..this Christmas I was in Athens..same thing. this morning read the news mother and son jumped to death in Athens of financial problems. crazy times.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Bull! Bull! Bull! Says:
    54

    @Anonymous:
    >Nope, just a place to bitch about lounging RE agents with little to do but post crap on blogs.

    If different points of view that are presented in a civil way aren’t tolerated, doesn’t this blog turn into the same mass media, developer/agent driven echo chamber that people have been complaining about for the last 7 years?

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    Boombust Says:
    55

    re:

    http://www.realtor.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?&PropertyId=11939783&PidKey=-542343134

    I think that house has been done over by amateur flippers. They are starting to get spooked by the slowing market, having dropped the price $50K or so in the last two months.

    It was re-listed recently as “NEW!”. Not.

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    chopper Says:
    56

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/9263196/World-edges-closer-to-deflationary-slump-as-money-contracts-in-China.htm

    If the link above does not work can someone please teach a retard like me how to do a link properly…

    BTW, this is something to cheer up BPOM’s day

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    chopper Says:
    58

    @Makaya: Ha! you’re awesome. Thanks Makaya!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    space889 Says:
    59

    @M-: The crazy with 8 and 4s are started with HK and Taiwan immigrants who really believed in this stuff. The mainland Chinese didn’t really pick this stuff up until the last few years. 1996 is right during the big HK and Taiwan immigration waves.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Nerdking Says:
    60

    @chopper: For future reference you can format a link like this: first type

     
    

    then paste the link in and close the tag with another > bracket. Then you type what you want the link to say, then close the tag with

     

    .

    Putting all together a link to this site would be typed out like this:

      link 

    And when you post it will look like this:
    link

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    61

    Gonna talk about the hospice at ubc on global news tonight.. Always fun:)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Best place on meth Says:
    62

    Ground has been broken on the hospice!

    Wooooo!!!!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @Bull! Bull! Bull!: Between May 2010 and Sept 2010 when the inventory fell, the five year interest rates also fell, from 4.75% to 3.8% That drove people into the market.
    http://www.canequity.com/mortgage_rate_history.stm
    Rates will not be falling this year.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    specialfx3000 Says:
    64

    @Anonymous:

    Disappointed that none of the residents appeared on camera.

    Maybe they’re too busy playing mahjong or talking to their Realtors to sell their units.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    watson Says:
    65

    @specialfx3000: Huzbah sell tree, I sell tree, GHOSTS!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    paulb. Says:
    66

    New Listings 289
    Price Changes 158
    Sold Listings 149
    TI:18667

    http://www.laurenandpaul.ca

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    market stats Says:
    67

    Interesting that there must have been a lot of expirations or pulled listings today and recently. I assume sellers seeing a bad market and waiting for better days or at least for greece to finally throw in the towel.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Chabar Says:
    68

    @watson:

    Ghosts and how to bust them in China:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-18185873

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    jumpin in Says:
    69

    Went to an open house today (Thursday!)
    Beautiful, very luxurious, with all the high tech gismos one can think of.
    On the market for only 30 days, but the price is already $100k down (5%).
    Where is HAM?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Loser with the girls Says:
    70

    Jumpin in Says: ” Where is HAM?”

    They are busy in China creating many hundreds of billions worth of unproductive debts, when the rest of the world is already saturated with debt and is relying on them to make up the funny-money difference. But this game is over.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    VanDweller VanDweller Says:
    71

    Copied from PaulB’s number. Thank you PaulB.
    http://www.laurenandpaul.ca

    Using good-format’s format.

    Date      List  Price+-  Sold  Xpired  Inv    Inv+-  S/L%
    12.04.30   316   179     124           17530   75    39
    12.05.01   354   144     179   583     17122   -408  51
    12.05.02   371   131     150   100     17243   121   36
    12.05.03   339   159     121   61      17400   157   36
    12.05.04   337   120     77    68      17592   192   23
    
    12.05.07   353   177     90    128     17727   135   25
    12.05.08   365   157     183   86      17823   96    50
    12.05.09   337   145     183   60      17917   94    54
    12.05.10   318   129     115   47      18073   156   36
    12.05.11   262   132     81    78      18176   103   31
    
    12.05.14   268   168     150   112     18182   6     56
    12.05.15   287   174     95    100     18274   92    33
    12.05.16   271   185     204   141     18200   -74   75
    12.05.17   270   127     70    94      18306   106   26
    12.05.18   328   106     135   80      18419   113   41
    
    12.05.22   381   255     120   151     18529   110   31
    12.05.23   313   146     137   70      18635   106   44
    12.05.24   289   158     149   108     18667   32    52
    
    Total-Cur  5443  2613    2239  2067            1137  41
    5 day-avg  309   163     136   107             66    45
               List Price+-  Sold  Xpired  Inv    Inv+-  S/L%
    

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    Arshes76 Says:
    72

    @Anonymous:

    True (except for Alberta) but most people dont know that or dont think that if you cant keep paying your mortgage that the banks will come after them. The whole idea that they can’t get blood from a stone. If theres no money, then there nos money what can they do? But they do come after you and will, people in that situation dont believe it. Like people who wont check the mail or anser the phone when bills become too much. They just ingore. People r short sited thats why.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    asalvari1 Says:
    73

    @ZRH2YVR:

    Re: your analysis and forecasting:

    I have not seen EVER better made short term analysis. I don’t know who you are or what is your vocation (math heavy, I would guess), but this is beyond and above anything so far I have ever seen.

    Thank you for sharing your views.

    p.s. For Larry: Larry, this is how it should be done.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    jumpin in Says:
    74

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-25/ferrari-deaths-fuel-anti-foreigner-anger-before-singapore-poll.html

    “These rich foreigners have come in, and driven up our property prices, especially the Chinese,” said Sebastian Tan, a Singaporean salesman in the construction industry. “Just see how our property prices have shot up in the last few years since the government became so welcoming towards foreigners.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    75

    http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120524-715405.html

    TORONTO (Dow Jones)–With signs of Canada’s red-hot housing market slowing, further measures to tighten mortgage-lending standards aren’t necessary, the head of Canada’s second-largest bank said Thursday.

    “At the moment, we see signs that the housing market is slowing, and the risk of a sharp correction is diminished,” said Toronto-Dominion Bank Chief Executive Edmund Clark.

    We believe OSFI’s interventions will have a further dampening effect. As a result, we do not see a need at this time to tighten further,” Clark said. “We should wait to see how the markets evolve.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Chabar Says:
    76

    Deadly HELOC:

    The pair remortgaged their house to help raise about $100,000 for the expedition. They put off having children so she could take on Everest.

    http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canadian-who-died-on-everest-had-been-preparing-for-summit-since-childhood/article2438959/?service=mobile

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    patriotz patriotz Says:
    77

    @Anonymous:

    “If things go bad in the future they are more likely to walk. ”
    Why? Mortgages are full recourse in Canada

    They are also full recourse in Florida and about 30 other US states.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Bull! Bull! Bull! Says:
    78

    @AG Sage: Thank you AG Sage, that is very useful information. I’m glad to see at least some people on this blog are on the ball.

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