An isolated unfriendly town?
When you smile and say hello to people do they glare back at you?.
A recent study says Vancouver is not a very friendly city:
Talk to people in Metro Vancouver about their interactions with others, and similar stories abound. Newcomers to the city talk about going weeks without anyone offering to show them around or invite them for dinner. Apartment dwellers talk about distrusting their neighbours to the extent that they’re afraid to let their children play unsupervised outside.
And because this is Vancouver, everything comes down to real estate:
Significantly, more than half of respondents agreed that Vancouver is becoming a resort town for the wealthy and that there is too much foreign ownership of real estate. This view was particularly common among people aged 25-34, a group whose responses to many survey questions revealed a marked cynicism about the state of their communities compared with other age groups.
And it’s not just desirable to the wealthy with a longing for rain, it’s also irresistible to the homeless. But how do we house them?
A handful of people, including Vancouver assistant director of housing policy Abi Bond, sketched out a plan to transform a cargo ship into a green-roofed utopia. They proposed a kayak co-op for commuting to and from the shore, filtered seawater to drink, and occasional rotation of the hull so the container-homes on both sides could get southern exposure.
Other suggestions ranged from tweaking property tax laws to building tiny apartments atop warehouses. The prevailing attitude seemed to be that the current crunch in the least affordable city in North America was caused not by a lack of housing supply, but by a dearth of creativity.
I’ve heard housing bubbles justified by a lot of things, but I must admit ‘a dearth of creativity’ is a new one.
June 19th, 2012 at 5:35 am 1
in fairness the ridiculous level of crime in vancouver probably lends itself to this (the kids playing outside thing) I cant let my kids play outside unattended, plus the international criminals who live in vancouver might be just worried they are going to get whacked and could be acting a little sketchy. half way im having a laugh, but a town that bases itself on this emabarassing unfouned pedestal is inevitably going to be populated with a fair number of flakes. maybe the people frowning at them are just in a bad mood because they work in the real estate sector or they know the party is over. the ideas of how to help the homeless show you how out to lunch this town can be sometimes. but there are some nice people out there too. rather than focusing on the dickheads I try to focus on, and appreciate them even more. hopefully we will be the ones to inherit this place after the dust has settled.
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June 19th, 2012 at 6:40 am 2
I have (2) Asian neighbours. One is probably 2-3 generation Canadian. Gretat guy, we say our hellos. When he bough his house approx. 30 years old, the first thung he did was put bars on every window in the house.He and his family drives Volvos
My other neighbour built a new house,has a Mercedes low key, not home often…we say hello when we se each other Couldn’t ask for better neighbours insofar as peace and quiet, but that’s it. Nowadays Everyones “neighbourhood” is within one’s property lines.
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June 19th, 2012 at 6:48 am 3
Overpriced housing + 9 months of rain + unfriendly people = Best Place on Earth™?
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June 19th, 2012 at 7:40 am 4
Affordability= housing costs/income.
x=y/z
Want to change x?
Don’t just talk about y.
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June 19th, 2012 at 7:40 am 5
I go out walking most days. The friendliest people I meet are the seniors. They smile, say hi and sometimes even comment about the weather. Unfriendliest? Teenagers (of course, they’re just too cool). I think it’s a generational thing.
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June 19th, 2012 at 7:47 am 6
I didn’t understand the bars on the windows thing until visiting parts of Asia. While I think the fear is misplaced in Vancouver I to some degree understand where many are coming from.
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June 19th, 2012 at 7:54 am 7
Everybody in New York stops to greet every stranger they pass by.
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June 19th, 2012 at 8:01 am 8
Bar on windows?
Well…there is your best indicator of “the ‘hood” if buying or renting.
Some parts of town , every house has them, at least on the ground floor, though I have even seem them on 2 storey as well.They all look like prisons
Anecdote: In-Laws were in South America for some volunteer work, stayed a few months. In some areas you cannot tell who the rich are…they don’t flaunt it for safety and security reasons. Their homes look shabby on the outside, but like palaces inside.
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June 19th, 2012 at 8:03 am 9
Having recently traveled to LA, San Diego, New York and Miami I do not recall anyone saying hi or being friendly to me. Maybe in small towns this happens but not in a city. Personally I don’t want to say hi to everyone I pass by. If I ever do find a place like that I will leave PDQ.
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June 19th, 2012 at 8:07 am 10
@Gresko MCGresko: “Anecdote: In-Laws were in South America for some volunteer work, stayed a few months. In some areas you cannot tell who the rich are…they don’t flaunt it for safety and security reasons.”
LOL you know who the rich are in South America. Your in-laws are confused of who is rich and who is not.
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June 19th, 2012 at 8:09 am 11
I’ve known a guy in my building who happens to be one of the the most courteous and friendliest people I’ve ever met. (We exchange greetings in the lobby, nothing more…)
The other day I found out that he is American (Seattle).
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June 19th, 2012 at 8:32 am 12
I’d say its not really that Vancouver is unfriendly, it’s just reserved and maybe a little bit over concerned with appearances. This seems to be part of the culture.
There are many friendly people here, but in general I always find Americans and people from Ontario more outgoing. This means they’re more friendly but also less concerned with saying something you disagree with.
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June 19th, 2012 at 8:33 am 13
As a Vancouverite who left for Toronto, I notice a marked increase in sociability in Toronto. People are much more friendly out here. (I admit that I am distant and cold in Vancouver as well). However, the problem with devastated ‘communities’ where no one knows their neighbour is common to both cities. Multi-ethnic cities have low social cohesion.
I recall living in Richmond and having vietnamese, mainland chinese, hong kong chinese and korean neighbours. None of them would speak to one another. The mainlanders and hong kongers did not get along, and both regarded the vietnamese as undesirables. One day our house was robbed by 5 guys who pulled up in a moving truck. One of the neighbours watched, but didn’t call the police. When interviewed by the police, he said it was ‘none of his business’. Yes, great city.
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June 19th, 2012 at 8:37 am 14
@Anonymous: “I’ve known a guy in my building who happens to be one of the the most courteous and friendliest people I’ve ever met…he is American”
We are an unfriendly town because we are made up of foreigners. Yet the most friendly is an American (foreigner). Let me guess he is white. Maybe it is your fear of anyone not white that creates the tension between you and others?
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June 19th, 2012 at 8:39 am 15
@Anonymous:
Huh?
No….. they actually visited these homes. Point is, basically a HAVE and HAVE NOT society, which is where we is headed
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June 19th, 2012 at 8:41 am 16
@Jim: “One of the neighbours watched, but didn’t call the police.”
He probably didn’t like you. People who complain of people being unfriendly to them have to look in the mirror. There is a reason people don’t like you.
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June 19th, 2012 at 8:56 am 17
There are a lot of factors contributing to the unfriendliness of this city… lots of which the previous posters have noted. I think the cost of living is one of the major stresses for sure, especially given the amount of foreign ownership.
Like it or not, this city’s cost of living is largely due to the blind eye the Canadian government gives to local and international money laundering. As F noted a few weeks ago, the government doens’t even attempt to track how much foreign money is buying up real-estate in canada, nevermind how that money is actually aquired. And as for the Chinese money thing, who knows how that is being generated. A one mainlander friend of mine put it, “There are billion people there so it is very competitive. The only way to make a lot of money is to cheat. But when you do you have to get the money out the country fast or the government will take it away”.
Who knows how much of the Chinese cash here is legit vs. shady? Our government sure as hell doesn’t want to find out as long as it give the baby boomer voting block higher prices on their houses so they feel more secure in their retirement. The house I’m renting right now is owned by a guy in mainland china who the rental agent says has never even been to Canada and doesn’t speak a word of english. Am I paying rent to the guy who invented “Pork that has been treated with toxic chemicals so its looks and kind of tastes like more expensive beef”? Who knows?
For the local angle, how much drug money is in the housing market. When I was living in the burbs, there were 4 grow ops within 3 houses of our place. These guys all seem to put the money into nice cars, nice houses, etc… without too much trouble. Does the government really want to pull at that dumbass cash out of the housing market? I think the proof is in the complete lack of enforcement of these guys (until they start shooting each other).
I think the reason the younger generation is so grumpy is that we know this economy is living on borrowed time. We see the baby boomers living a scorched earth life and know that we have ZERO chance of maintaining the same quality of life they are cruising on through their retirement. We are grumpy becuase we don’t want to face the reality of Vancouver’s (and north america’s in general) bleak future thanks to the greed of our parents.
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June 19th, 2012 at 9:04 am 18
@Anonymous:
When I post something in English praising a friendly American, it’s automatically assumed I must be white with a fear of non-whites.
Have you ever considered the possibility that maybe, just maybe Asians do speak English in this town? We are not all HAMs.
Moron
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June 19th, 2012 at 9:11 am 19
@kman: “especially given the amount of foreign ownership.”
…and what is the amount of foreign ownership? I know we hear a lot about it, but any time I hear actual stats its somewhere in the 1-2% range. Is this higher than other cities?
I’m not trying to be argumentative, I’m genuinely curious. It seems like ‘high foreign ownership’ is a given assumption for Vancouver but I haven’t seen any stats that show that.
Are there any?
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June 19th, 2012 at 9:12 am 20
As I have said before, compared to every other city I have lived in, which the possible exception of Toronto, my section of Vancouver (East Van) is friendly. I am very often in North Van on my way to the mountains and I generally get a less friendly vibe there, except on the trails where I exchange hellos with every person I encounter.
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June 19th, 2012 at 9:26 am 21
In vancouver no-one talks to you unless they are begging for money.
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June 19th, 2012 at 9:39 am 22
13 Jim Says: “As a Vancouverite who left for Toronto, I notice a marked increase in sociability …”
Toronto’s reputation in Ontario is the opposite of Friendly Town, yet back in the city after a decade in Vancouver I have to agree. In Vancouver it wasn’t surprising for a dickhead to try pushing through the door you just opened and ramp up the moral outrage for not getting the fuck out of the way pronto. In Toronto I more often apologize and thank people for holding doors I’m not taking, wrong floor in stairwells at work for example.
No one I know who lived in Vancouver and elsewhere has ever called it friendly. Some born-and-raised locals who moved to Ontario (again, nowhere near as friendly as the East Coast or Albertans) have been much less kind.
Canadian society in general has been sewering for a long time. It will be interesting to see how a market correction that wipes out any illusion of being among the ’2-percenters’ will change that.
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June 19th, 2012 at 9:47 am 23
I usually like to open the doors for the ladies but it seems that Vancouver ladies don’t appreciate that. did anyone notice that? Anywhere in the world it would be expected that from a gentleman.
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June 19th, 2012 at 9:55 am 24
@jesse:
“I didn’t understand the bars on the windows thing until visiting parts of Asia.”
I understood it when someone broke into my house back in the 90′s. Guess you’ve just been lucky.
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:17 am 25
I think it’s interesting that young people agree that there is “too much” foreign ownership in this city. Those young people will be from different backgrounds but the one thing that is uniting them with regard to this statement is that they feel priced out of the city they were probably born in (some might have moved here from elsewhere in Canada).
The developer response has been to try to develop cheaper and smaller units to sell them. But even the price of those units continually creep up. I wonder when this sentiment and the emigration of young people from this city to make room for the rich will result in some kind of policy change in Canada. Probably only when it occurs in Toronto, the Centre of the Universe. Until then, we continue to lose our young in favour of the international and wealthy. Sounds like a bum deal but it’s emptying out the neighbourhoods nicely giving Vancouver the old small town feel it used to have.
How many VancovuerCondoInfo bears have left the city already? How many more are on their way out? Makaya? Isn’t the owner of this blog gone? And how old are all of you? Can we take a poll?
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:21 am 26
I think that often the unfriendliness in Vancouver is due to the high level of stress so many people are under, perhaps due to tryng to buy a house or keep a house, while trying to keep up with inflation.I have often heard people in public or in coffee shops and restaurants stressfully talking about housing, prices,selling,entering. In Vancouver houses,town houses or apartments are what a large portion of our society will work a majority of their good,healthy years trying to pay off. Much worry for many people. Worry makes for unhappy and unfriendly folk. Worry makes you sick, dis ease=disease. Don’t buy into a lie, do your research. Vancouver is a nice town but its expensive and rains way to much.
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:22 am 27
@Anonymous: “In vancouver no-one talks to you unless they are begging for money.”
Are you talking about the homeless people or the Realtors?
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:23 am 28
well i left because there was no career opportunities in Vancouver not because Shawugnessy was changing demographics. I don’t give a shit that white rich SOB’s were replaced with yellow rich SOB
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:25 am 29
Canada’s legislated discrimination:
I laugh at the Quebec student protests..last hold out from the real world…
Daughter is entering 4th year at McGill next year, born Canadian ,has 12 years of French Immersion and can speak Spanish as well. However She pays the “out -of- province” tuition rate.
However….she said that if you are from another French speaking foreign country, with French as your first language, YOU only pay the resident Quebec tuition rate. In other words, for example, someone for Ivory Coast(old French Colony) pays less than my Born in Canada daughter .
I couldn’t beleive it ,but I checked it out and it is true.
Now you know why Quebec is a “Have Not” province, it creates and fosters these tax dollar sucking situation which the rest of us pay for.
Why fight racism and discrimination..its legislated.
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:25 am 30
@patriotz:
Yeah. BC has the highest rate of property crime in Canada and Vancouver is right up there (since its part of BC).
http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=b2cbdc4e-d3e1-406d-8e05-955ee3ed47f2
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:29 am 31
@mac:
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:29 am 32
@mac:
Aargh. Formatting goof.
My generation is plenty capable of swallowing its own foot without your help. Didn’t we just see poll results suggesting foreign buyers currently make up less than 4% of the market? Or, are you including as “foreign” Canadians citizens who haven’t integrated? At any rate, it’s pretty bold to assert that “young people agree.”
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:36 am 33
Looks like waiting for the collapse has turned you all into crazy, bitter, ranting racists.
Is being a bear is bad for your mental health, or do crazy people become bears?
Further research is needed.
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:44 am 34
@SamanthaD:
>> Is being a bear is bad for your mental health, or do crazy people become bears?<<
I think that people with a lot of hostility toward society for various reasons, and in particular people who believe that they have been cheated, feel that the rewards they see being given to those around them are unjust. These people are often xenophobic or anti-capitalist, or have apocalyptic fantasies. The story of a coming real estate bust is very attractive to them on an emotional level, so they end up hanging out on bear blogs.
In short, it's the latter.
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:48 am 35
@#11 That’s funny, lived in Seattle and while people say Seattlites are friendly it’s very hard to make friends there. I know several people who said it took two years to make a single friend.
I find people in Vancouver friendly, albeit a bit snotty depending on which part of town you are (same as the Seattle areas), but the drivers in the lower mainland by far are the most obnoxious I have experienced anywhere. People tailgate here like they are nascar drivers. I month ago I was parallel parking in North Van and had people honking and screaming at me.
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:52 am 36
@Gresko MCGresko: The people who made those policies treat Quebec as an independent country. They have “ties” to France and la francophonie whereas they are trying to separate from the rest of Canada. See the difference? Policy-wise your daughter is a foreigner. Whereas the Cote D’Ivoire resident is a cousin. I know it’ll drive you nuts but that’s the way it is over there.
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:53 am 37
Is this the Canary in the Coal Mine?
Land Value Property for sale – 5038 Arbutus Street – listed for $998,000 now 13.2% below last sale price of $1.15 million on April 15, 2011- assessed value is $1,227,900.
This is where you will see the 1st cracks in the Westside housing market – big lot on busy street in Westside. In a few years, this lot will be worth $300,000+. Is this a speculator who is bailing, perhaps someone who put 5% down last year, never made a payment and is walking away? It definitely sounds like a foreclosure but I have not confirmed that.
http://www.realtylink.org/prop_search/Detail.cfm?areatitle=&ARPK=&ComID=&agentid=&MLS=V955311&rowc=10&rowp=6&BCD=GV&imdp=9&RSPP=5&AIDL=21,22,23,24,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,39,40,41,42,43,44,10105,853&SRTB=P_Price&ERTA=True&MNAGE=0&MXAGE=200&MNBT=0&MNBD=0&PTYTID=5&MNPRC=200000&MXPRC=1100000&SCTP=RS
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:53 am 38
@Turkey: My assertion is a quote from the article being discussed. Read it. No need to look for ghosts under your bed.
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:55 am 39
@Turkey: By the way, there are no foots being swallowed even though the expression is putting one’s foot in one’s mouth, which means causing offence by saying something. They were SURVEYED. They answered. Your generation was polled and they replied. Read the article.
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June 19th, 2012 at 11:07 am 40
Canadian housing boom to grind to a halt
http://business.financialpost.com/2012/06/19/canadian-housing-boom-to-grind-to-a-halt/
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June 19th, 2012 at 11:13 am 41
@JR:
You forgot to mention that you were on the Second Narrows bridge at the time.
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June 19th, 2012 at 11:15 am 42
@mac: “More than half” or “particularly common” does not constitute agreement. “Agree” was your word, not the articles. Notably, I fit the demographic, and I think the “foreign ownership” canard is driven by ignorance and fear.
(Let’s not get dragged into comparative colloquialisms, please, and I know the pluralization was awkward.)
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June 19th, 2012 at 11:20 am 43
@Turkey: For Feck’s sake. If that’s your point. I’m not discussing it with you.
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June 19th, 2012 at 11:24 am 44
@mac: I left a couple of years ago, but I still find the vancouver bubble show fascinating.
I moved to small town BC and people are far more friendly here in my experience, but that could be partly because I’m friendlier.
If you’re making average wages in Vancouver you’re probably stressed out, I certainly was. This stress evaporated when I moved, I earn about the same, but my living costs were cut almost in half and I work a lot less meaning more time for family and personal projects.
Being less stressed out has probably made me friendlier, but the number of friends I’ve made in two years here far more than in Vancouver and I’m more likely to just run into them and hang out which is a nice first.
It always seemed like friendship in Vancouver had to be planned.
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June 19th, 2012 at 11:25 am 45
@Troll: To be fair that is the parking with the nicest views.
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June 19th, 2012 at 11:25 am 46
Victoria is then probably the 2nd unfriendly city. I have lived in Winnipeg, Paris, London and Toronto.
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June 19th, 2012 at 11:26 am 47
#37 – - – Re 5038 Arbutus.
Listing agent is one of the owners.
Should know soon how their Offer Party on June 18 went.
Definitely priced below “market” to get the buyer in. Should sell for over asking based on current market. Still – this is a big loss in 12 months. Could be $200,000 after all costs and taxes are factored in.
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June 19th, 2012 at 11:27 am 48
Interesting to see the source of this survey is the Vancouver Foundation. They do good work in the community and must be on the frontlines when it comes to noticing a change in civic attitudes. They saw trouble, wanted to dig a little deeper, so did the survey.
I think a lot of people show their true character during a disaster like the blizzard we had a few years ago (2009? Yes I know it wasn’t an earthquake, but its closest thing we’ve had lately). I witnessed shameful, often dangerous, behaviour by drivers and people in general. I also heard, second-hand, stories of rage. People practically getting into blows over parking spots on public streets.
What happens when the big one hits?
Our standoffishness is a bit understandable. Every week or so my wife tells me her “bus stories”. People having psychotic episodes, scaring everyone else on board. Horrible stinks, probably because there are no public washrooms (also addicts losing bodily functions). And just random assholishness. Scratch beneath surface of a lot of people in this city, and you won’t like what you see.
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June 19th, 2012 at 11:48 am 49
@Victoria:
Really? That amazes me! I lived in Paris for the second half of the 90s, near the top of rue de Dunkerque, which is once of the friendlier neighborhoods (not too rich, not too poor), but I found people to be outright hostile to each other all the time. It’s the same thing when I go back. People are extremely mean and pissy to each other (not so much to me personally) and the stance of the day always seems to be ‘se défendre.’ I’ve got to say, I don’t get that vibe outside Paris.
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June 19th, 2012 at 12:45 pm 50
Troll Says: Reply to this comment
June 19th, 2012 at 11:13 am
@JR:
I month ago I was parallel parking in North Van and had people honking and screaming at me.
You forgot to mention that you were on the Second Narrows bridge at the time.
=================================================
Actually you can practice on the Golden Ears Bridge….no one else is using it.
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June 19th, 2012 at 1:12 pm 51
@Patiently Waiting:
And that’s just the bus drivers.
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June 19th, 2012 at 1:21 pm 52
@Patiently Waiting: “Every week or so my wife tells me her “bus stories”. People having psychotic episodes, scaring everyone else on board. Horrible stinks, probably because there are no public washrooms (also addicts losing bodily functions). And just random assholishness. Scratch beneath surface of a lot of people in this city, and you won’t like what you see.”
which bus does your wife take? transit from richmond to vancouver doesn’t have any problems. i think it’s because most of the people on it are asian.
now that people from white rock and tswassen are getting on the canada line at bridgeport station, i find that transit rage is increasing. they are mostly caucasian.
i wonder if selfish behavior that disturbs others has a cultural component.
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June 19th, 2012 at 1:27 pm 53
@Richmondite: “which bus does your wife take? transit from richmond to vancouver doesn’t have any problems. i think it’s because most of the people on it are asian.
now that people from white rock and tswassen are getting on the canada line at bridgeport station, i find that transit rage is increasing. they are mostly caucasian.”
Can you guys stop with your racist rant? This is getting fucking annoying!
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June 19th, 2012 at 1:29 pm 54
@Patiently Waiting:
And you think Vancouver is unique when it comes to crazies on public transport? Of course it isn’t.
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June 19th, 2012 at 1:32 pm 55
@Troll: Ha! You’re on fire today! Who knew the time would come when I’d look forward to comments from Troll.
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June 19th, 2012 at 1:36 pm 56
@Anonymous:
The issue is not whether craziness exists, but how frequent it is.
I ride the bus regularly in Ottawa and frankly can’t recall any violent or crazy incidents. You do read about them in the papers – but that says something in itself. It’s news.
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June 19th, 2012 at 1:38 pm 57
@patriotz: “I ride the bus regularly in Ottawa and frankly can’t recall any violent or crazy incidents. ”
And I can’t recall any in Vancouver. What’s your point?
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June 19th, 2012 at 1:48 pm 58
It’s tough to find time to nurture friendships here in Van. You have to work harder and longer to pay for the higher price of everything. If you have kids, you have to take them to a million classes and organized events because you can’t just let them run outside with their friends the way kids are supposed to grow up. From personal experience, in between work, chores, kids and personal distractions like online blogs, there really isn’t that much time left for hanging out making friends.
When you are pushed for time, nascent friendships become liabilities. Whenever you are just shooting the shit with someone, you are cognizant in the back of your mind that you are eating up precious time that you would normally spend catching up with the other obligations… So you unconsciously start to avoid friendships. Imagine if you had to stop and chat 5 minutes with every neighbour or fellow commuteryou run into – your day would be f ed and you would not accomplish the things you set out to do. I think that’s why people try to keep themselves to themselves. No time to smell the roses and talk about aimless things.
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June 19th, 2012 at 1:49 pm 59
I’m not honestly not too sure what some of you expect from Vancouver.
Do you want a rich and vibrant cultural scene, more high-paying jobs and company headquarters? Then accept that those attributes usually come with larger cities, and larger cities come with their own set of problems.
Do you want strangers to greet you on the street? Then understand that that’s almost unheard of in large cities.
If you want Vancouver to have exceptional economy, weather, personality, culture, neighbourhoods, activities, etc – i.e. perfection – then you really have 2 options.
1. Start to appreciate what the city does have, rather than complaining about what it doesn’t.
2. Leave.
I’d personally advise against 2 as chances are that you’ll just complain about wherever you moved to as soon as the honeymoon period is over.
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June 19th, 2012 at 1:50 pm 60
I had a feeling this article was going to get people back into the racism stuff… that was continued from yesterday.
Let’s get back to housing. Here’s a start.
Upcoming OSFI rule changes
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Officials+expected+finalize+lending+guidelines+June+early+July/6787399/story.html
Although many of these above guidelines sound reasonable, having all of these changes come into effect at the same time could have a negative impact on housing markets short term. Potential purchasers may find it more difficult to obtain financing, and investors may find it harder to leverage existing assets to acquire additional properties.
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June 19th, 2012 at 1:50 pm 61
@Anonymouse:
“And I can’t recall any in Vancouver. What’s your point?”
I can. Lots.
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June 19th, 2012 at 1:53 pm 62
@TPFKAA: and arranging time to hang out – that’s just a massive hole ripping through your neatly organized schedule, leaving you scrambling to make up. What we really need is a lower cost of living or lower collective lifestyle aspirations to make this a friendlier city.
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June 19th, 2012 at 2:15 pm 63
@Anonymouse:
You are absolutely right! I would also like to mention that only one type of complaint is germane to bear arguments, and that is the one that goes, “Vancouver is small and boring.” Snotty, busy people do not produce downward pressure on RE prices.
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June 19th, 2012 at 2:21 pm 64
@TPFKAA:
But if you don’t want to be busy, why would you live in a city. The whole point about cities is that they bring together a lot of things to and people to interact with. If you want a slower pace of life, why wouldn’t you move to Powell River? The scenery and weather are pretty much the same. There wouldn’t be so many jobs, or good schools, or trendy restaurants, but that’s just the way the world is. You cannot have both.
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June 19th, 2012 at 2:25 pm 65
BC will simply be a resort province.
I hear on news Catalyst (3) BC Paper Mills are still seeking bankruptcy protection…
Geez….I can remember all the sawmills on the Fraser River from Eburne up past New West….even the ones on False Creek in early 1980′s.
Good jobs are gone…any decent paying will be farmed out. The U.S. even has a new bill that allows professionals from other countries to come in and work at much lower salaries(ie MD’s Engineers etc.)
Party was over long ago…now cometh the hangover.
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June 19th, 2012 at 2:27 pm 66
@TPFKAA: “If you have kids, you have to take them to a million classes and organized events because you can’t just let them run outside with their friends the way kids are supposed to grow up.”
Why not?
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June 19th, 2012 at 2:29 pm 67
Don’t know if this was posted already, but I see your friend and mine, real estate industry media pumper supreme, Brian Morton of The Sun, is at it again:
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Young+families+driving+renewed+recreational+property+market/6801454/story.html
Not one explanation as to *why* prices have “softened.” Just a good old fashioned, wholly one-sided cheerleading barf-fest on BC “recreational” properties and why they’re suddenly where it’s at with the young crowd. Come on, youngins, everybody’s doing it! Don’t be a wuss! Don’t be late! There’s “pent-up demand,” in the Okanagan, donthca know.
I’ve emailed this guy a few times now asking why so many of his pieces are blatant pump jobs. Think I’ve ever recieved a reply? Ha!
I wonder though if he wields enough power over there to simply write whatever the hell he wants or if he’s mandated from above to spread the gospel according to Re/Max?
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June 19th, 2012 at 2:30 pm 68
That survey is nice, but since it only surveyed vancouverites’ opinions and feelings, there’s no basis to determine whether Vancouver is less friendly than any other city. Perhaps if we surveyed users from most modern cities we’d find many of them feel estranged from neighbours and fellow city dwellers. The only basis for saying Vancouver is less friendly than other cities is from annecdotal observations from a jogger.
Let me add my own annecdotal observations then to balance this.
1) In Vancouver, I rarely see people walking away or ignoring me if I make the first move and greet them with a nod, smile, or wave. The same seems to hold true in other cities I visit. Even grouchy looking people smile or nod if you smile at them. You don’t have to argue with me on this, just conduct your own experiment and greet 5 random people and see what they do.
2) People may keep to themselves, but when asking for help, I find people helpful enough, and friendly enough. The barrier to friendliness seems to be the lack of an initial ice breaking moment. Even something as simple as thanking someone for holding a door is good enough to start a simple pleasant exchange. When asked for help I try my best to give directions or whatever else necessary.
3) Yes, even the “evil HAM” immigrants can be quite friendly if we greet them with a positive attitude.
4) Yes, even wealthy people that I see and greet know how to smile. I haven’t been told to keep to my own kind ,or been told off as a peasant yet.
5) Yes, even people in Richmond, Downtown Vancouver, and Burnaby return greetings. I was even in the so called HAM infested Kits area a few months ago and greeted some non Asian looking residents.
Btw this spurs some interest from me:
@patriotz
“I can. Lots.”
If you were to compare the same amount of time in the two cities, what’s the ratio of crazy or violent incidents you’ve personally witnessed in the bus? If I’m remembering correctly you’ve probably lived in Ottawa for a year or so, while I’m guessing you lived in Vancouver for years. So if you average out each year, how many typical violent and/or crazy incidents did you experience firsthand (as a witness or otherwise) in Vancouver, compared to the 0 incidents in Ottawa in the same average year?
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June 19th, 2012 at 2:38 pm 69
@N: “why wouldn’t you move to [insert podunk town here]?”
Family.
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June 19th, 2012 at 2:40 pm 70
@Anonymous: Because a pedophile will pick them up or they will get run over by a truck. I would have thought that was self evident. Would you let preschoolers out to wander the city streets? Be prepared to explain some things to child services.
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June 19th, 2012 at 2:42 pm 71
@Anonymous: whoops that was me.
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June 19th, 2012 at 3:10 pm 72
@Gresko MCGresko:
The US is trying to fixed their problem. Maybe we should do the same. Many Canadians are overpaid.
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June 19th, 2012 at 3:22 pm 73
@Anonymouse: “And I can’t recall any in Vancouver. What’s your point?”
What’s your point?
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June 19th, 2012 at 3:37 pm 74
Ok, I’m a longtime bear and lurker who in disgust at the insane RE in vancouver moved to Europe. But c’mon guys, give Vancouver a break, OK?
On one hand, the place is slammed for not being as world class as the license plates would have us believe, unlike NYC, London, Paris, Berlin, etc…
On the other hand, we diss the city for not being as friendly or safe as Ottawa (which has the same population as London, Ontario).
Try living in some of these World Class Cities, especially the Scandinavian or Germanic ones. We live in Paris, which despite its bad rep with the bus tour crowd, actually falls midway on the european friendly-o-meter. The french love to create rules so they can find 5000 ways to ignore them, while Germans create them so anyone and everyone can lecture you on how you’re breaking one (or several).
It is not done to smile at, never mind make conversation with a stranger when in, say a long lineup (of which there are many in Europe, a fact people tend to conveniently overlook when comparing Vancouver with Real World Class cities). It takes a year before the staff at the local bakery you visit every 2nd day will act like they recognize you.
While it’s true that when we visit now, we’re struck first by how much it seems like a beautiful but sterile resort town, especially in the Concord Pacific zones. But then we’re *absolutely blown away* by how friendly everyone is. Yes, I know it’s friendlier in Kamloops/Kingston/Podunk, but it’s lightyears ahead of London or Berlin’s Mitte.
I love this blog, it literally kept me sane when I nearly got swept up in buy-now-before-you-get-priced-out-forever craziness in 2005. But can we please keep things in perspective?
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June 19th, 2012 at 3:44 pm 75
@Gresko MCGresko:
“Good jobs are gone”
I’m not sure I’d say that working in a paper mill is a “good job”.
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June 19th, 2012 at 3:45 pm 76
@gord
Did you try writing his editors?
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June 19th, 2012 at 3:46 pm 77
@Anonymous: “What’s your point?”
It’s about the futility of trying to use anecdotes in lieu of facts. Who cares what incidents patriotz has or hasn’t seen on buses, because his observations alone are not exactly a fair representation of reality.
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June 19th, 2012 at 3:48 pm 78
Gord I am just naive. Just cross my mind that he wouldn’t, be at this position if his editor is any different.
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June 19th, 2012 at 3:53 pm 79
Hey..Listening to NW on line re Refugees and their benefits
Immigration Lawyer sez Canada accepts 95% of the World’s Hungarian refugees !
Oh boy more Gabor sisters and Goulash..pass the paprika !
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June 19th, 2012 at 3:55 pm 80
72
Dude Says: Reply to this comment
June 19th, 2012 at 3:10 pm
@Gresko MCGresko:
The US is trying to fixed their problem. Maybe we should do the same. Many Canadians are overpaid.
=============================================================
FYI: We also refer to them as Civil Servants.
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June 19th, 2012 at 4:17 pm 81
@exwestender: “But can we please keep things in perspective?”
I agree. There is a lot of bitter people on VCI that just don’t get it. Yes there is a housing bubble but Vancouver is a nice place to live. If you don’t like it there are other cheaper places to live – please go!
I work for a multi national company and talk with a lot of coworkers who visit from all parts of the world. Generally they love Vancouver and always comment how clean the city is and how friendly people are. They also often comment how nice it is to have so many cultures living together in one city. People do not realize how good they have it here.
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June 19th, 2012 at 4:26 pm 82
@exwestender: Oh, there we go again, comparing the small regional town of Vancouver to world-class metropolis (metropoli?) like London, Paris, NYC and Berlin. Speaking of keeping things in perspective…
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June 19th, 2012 at 4:31 pm 83
Aha
……just as I suspected…
OVERPAID Civil Servants on line….get back to work making our lives HELL ……ya ” Freedom 55 ” losers…
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June 19th, 2012 at 4:36 pm 84
@Gresko MCGresko: Oh boy. You’ve just dated yourself. The Gabor Sisters? The surviving one is like 125 years old.
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June 19th, 2012 at 4:39 pm 85
@Devore: “Oh, there we go again, comparing the small regional town of Vancouver to world-class metropolis (metropoli?) like London, Paris, NYC and Berlin. Speaking of keeping things in perspective…”
It’s no different from when people make the comparison the other way – saying that Vancouver doesn’t have the arts/restaurant/theatre/music scenes of those cities. Yet making such a comparison when the purpose is to criticize is somehow acceptable?
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June 19th, 2012 at 4:55 pm 86
This is such a pointless discussion. Your view of a city is largely a reflection of you, not the city itself.
What’s next on the agenda, a riveting discussion on whether Blue is a happier colour than Green?
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June 19th, 2012 at 5:08 pm 87
Talking about jobs going south, Washington fruit and produce always has lower wholesale prices than BC. This is going to end up bad for our farms one of these days.
Only possibilities I could imagine leading to the price difference is:
1. Real estate increasing BC’s input costs.
2. US subsidies for farm goods via food stamps and tax exemptions. If so why aren’t we making any complaints?
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June 19th, 2012 at 5:09 pm 88
As usual , Moi has uncovered another Leftie Retard/Civil Servant conspiracy.
Proof they have auto -pilot vote…cause they don’t do ANY work after 11:45 am…(pick yer Time Zone)
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June 19th, 2012 at 5:27 pm 89
New Listings 249
Price Changes 154
Sold Listings 129
TI:19275
http://www.laurenandpaul.ca
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June 19th, 2012 at 5:33 pm 90
I’m usually pretty friendly to strangers and always try to open doors for others unless my hands are full and say hello to strangers in elevators or give them a friendly nod. After all, it doesn’t cost anything to be friendly. I’ve observed that the most friendly people senior citizens, and the least friendly are single women (i.e. women who are out in public alone) and mothers with strollers. They are the least appreciative people in Vancouver and basically expect you to roll out a red carpet for them. And don’t expect a simple thanks or smile in return.
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June 19th, 2012 at 5:36 pm 91
@exwestender:
“On the other hand, we diss the city for not being as friendly or safe as Ottawa (which has the same population as London, Ontario).”
Er what? Ottawa/Gatineau has about the same population as Calgary or Edmonton, i.e. somewhat over a million. It does have an NHL team you know.
London, Ontario is about 360,000.
We are all entitled to our own opinions, but we are not entitled to our own facts. Facts belong to themselves.
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June 19th, 2012 at 5:37 pm 92
stupid bear says i am an a-hole but, i am ok with myself. it’s the other guy that unfriendly!
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June 19th, 2012 at 5:39 pm 93
@patriotz: and the fact is that you are hiding behind your monitor pretending a know-it-all armchair economist.
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June 19th, 2012 at 5:59 pm 94
I certainly hope there is a new topic of discussion tomorrow…one that’s related to RE. This has been an utter waste of two days on this blog…
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June 19th, 2012 at 6:14 pm 95
@gordholio: RE=Regulated Extortion
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June 19th, 2012 at 6:15 pm 96
MoI is over 8! yessah
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June 19th, 2012 at 6:18 pm 97
Listings are nothing extraordinary either way–no real rush for the exit this month. But sales! Sales are crap-tacular. Worse than 2008.
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June 19th, 2012 at 6:19 pm 98
Just watched a little clip on Global about Generation Y spending money (credit, really since they don’t often have high-paying jobs) on luxury items. Damn kids! I wonder how many of these kids in their early twenties (Global says Gen Y is born after 1983) decided to really splurge and buy luxury condos? yeesh….I think these kids will soon be visiting the school of hard knocks when they realize their first career job doesn’t pay enough to finance a lifestyle of Prada and LV.
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June 19th, 2012 at 7:07 pm 99
Back by POOPular demanned.
Leftie retards are out picketing for “Freedom 49″ and watching “Dancing with the Starz”
===========================================
Gresko MCGresko Says: Reply to this comment
June 19th, 2012 at 5:09 pm
As usual , Moi has uncovered another Leftie Retard/Civil Servant conspiracy.
Proof they have auto -pilot vote…cause they don’t do ANY work after 11:45 am…(pick yer Time Zone)
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June 19th, 2012 at 7:10 pm 100
@pricedoutfornow:
I doubt the same young people who are buying the luxury items are buying condos. After the mortgage payment there is no money left even with a good job. The funny thing is the people who blow their cash on luxury items will be better off financially than those who think they are being wise by putting every penny into a condo.
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June 19th, 2012 at 7:17 pm 101
“This is going to end up bad for our farms one of these days.”
Why the heck do so few stores stock local strawberries? How can people buy these nasty imported things that are hard and white in the middle at this time of year? Get this, not even my closest produce store has local berries ffs.
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June 19th, 2012 at 7:21 pm 102
How much money household with 2 kids has to make in order to live comfortably in Vancouver? Assuming you rent a house in nice area.
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June 19th, 2012 at 7:30 pm 103
@VHB: “MoI is over 8! yessah”
Time to start celebrating every additional month of inventory
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June 19th, 2012 at 7:37 pm 104
@Gresko MCGresko: What a comment crap-flood. Time for you to get your ban back.
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June 19th, 2012 at 8:12 pm 105
The new GEAB’s issue is out, dark times ahead… Once again, they got most of their past months predictions right (euro crisis).
GEAB N°66 is available! Red alert / Global systemic crisis – September-October 2012: When the trumpets of Jericho ring out seven times for the world before the crisis
I highly recommend to read the whole article…
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June 19th, 2012 at 8:13 pm 106
Anybody here ever watch, or have a significant other that insists on watching, those “House Hunter” reality shows, and their ilk?
Turns out they are not “reality shows” at all. They are mostly fiction:
“viewers follow a buyer as they anxiously decide between three different houses. [Former show participant] Jensen says that, in fact, one house has already been purchased–the producers wouldn’t even finalize her as a subject until after the closing. … While the two rejected properties may be on the market, in Jensen’s case, “They were just our two friends’ houses who were nice enough to madly clean for days in preparation for the cameras!”
LOL!!! I wonder how many numbnuts have been encouraged into buying into the overpriced housing market after watching shows like these. They’re about to find out that not only were the shows pure fiction, but so the supposed “high value” of the homes that they are mortgaged to the hilt for are pure fiction, too.
http://housingdoom.com/2012/06/14/house-hunters-show-dont-look-for-reality-in-reality-tv/
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June 19th, 2012 at 9:03 pm 107
@VHB:
How do your MOI projections account for end-of-month expires?
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June 19th, 2012 at 9:04 pm 108
@Patiently Waiting:
Come to the Drive. We’ve got them, and they are sweet.
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June 19th, 2012 at 9:13 pm 109
@Stucco:
I hear you man…
I’d be po’d too if the fortune cookie factory you worked at was outsourced to Mumbai
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June 19th, 2012 at 9:17 pm 110
@Anonymous: Hi, my MoI is **today’s** MoI, not a projection of where MoI will be at the end of the month.
That is, I take **today’s** inventory and divide it by the best estimate I have for the monthly sales pace as of today.
Maybe a projection of a month-end MoI would be more useful for some purposes, but (in part to avoid the complications you point out) I don’t do that.
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June 19th, 2012 at 9:42 pm 111
When i see younger people in the Lower Mainland i’m surprised there isn’t more apparent anger about house prices. This society is divided into an aristocracy who own mortgage-free or low mortgage homes and those who don’t.
As an immigrant from the UK, i find Vancouverites quite friendly. Any visiting friends and family (and i’ve had many) ALWAYS comment on the friendliness of the locals.
Safety – compared to the UK, and many, many of the other cities i’ve visited, Vancouver is incredibly safe. The levels of random street violence is almost non existent. Try walking home from the bar in any big English city at kicking out time and you can cut the sense of menace with a knife. I never get this sensation in vancouver. I know of what i speak – my wife works on Granville St, so i see the late-night action more than most.
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June 19th, 2012 at 9:46 pm 112
Quick poll: How many regular readers of VCI thought there still would be any kind of debate over whether Canadian housing market was cracking by June of 2012.
(Hat tip to all the can kickers, paper-overers, pretend-and-extenders out there…you’ve done better than anyone might have expected)
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June 19th, 2012 at 9:48 pm 113
Copied from PaulB’s number. Thank you PaulB.
http://www.laurenandpaul.ca
Date List Price+- Sold Xpired Inv+- Inv S/L(%) 12.05.31 258 160 64 196 -2 18881 25 12.06.01 288 130 147 447 -306 18575 51 12.06.04 340 219 87 145 108 18683 26 12.06.05* 309 173 86 82 141 18824 28 12.06.06* 281 163 82 102 97 18921 29 12.06.07 240 136 97 140 3 18924 40 12.06.08 269 134 96 76 97 19021 36 12.06.11 294 241 113 120 61 19082 38 12.06.12 283 188 162 82 39 19121 57 12.06.13 266 164 103 101 62 19183 39 12.06.14 219 141 120 88 11 19194 55 12.06.15 219 151 95 72 52 19246 43 12.06.18 274 216 93 170 11 19257 34 12.06.19 249 154 129 102 18 19275 52 Total-Cur 3531 2210 1410 1727 394 June-Avg 272 170 108 133 30 41 List Price+- Sold Xpired Inv+- Inv S/L(%)*It appears more sales were reported after PaulB published his numbers on this day.
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June 19th, 2012 at 9:49 pm 114
@alberto: “I usually like to open the doors for the ladies but it seems that Vancouver ladies don’t appreciate that. did anyone notice that? Anywhere in the world it would be expected that from a gentleman”
Of course, in Vancouver, it’s often difficult to tell the difference between ladies and men.
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:00 pm 115
@exwestender: …..On the other hand, we diss the city for not being as friendly or safe as Ottawa (which has the same population as London, Ontario). …
London Ontario: most boring city in the Americas (except for the Ceeps of course).
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:17 pm 116
“When i see younger people in the Lower Mainland i’m surprised there isn’t more apparent anger about house prices. This society is divided into an aristocracy who own mortgage-free or low mortgage homes and those who don’t.”
They should be more angry about the lack of decent jobs.
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:22 pm 117
@temp
Family with 2 kids
Housing = 2000- 3000 depending on neighborhood. I would say more like $3000.
We pay Electricity = $100 per month + Heating= $50 per month on average
Internet + phone = $90 per month
Food = 1000- 2500 depending on what you eat (Costco Kraft dinners – organic vegetables)
Car = $2000/year insurance + gas + parking is expansive, Gas = 1.5$/liter
Medical bills = I do not know – Care card is covering almost all over expanses.
Education = free, but any music lesson is $45 an hour
Good community centres
Restaurants = We do not go anymore , way overpriced for the quality of the food being served (especially the meat)
Umbrellas: %50 per year per person
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:23 pm 118
PS: pre-tax yearly income should be at least $100,000.
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:50 pm 119
@VHB:
So it’s not really today’s MOI as its based on a projection of month-end sales totals? So it converges to the “right” answer on the last day of the month, and before that it’s inaccurate.
Doesn’t really matter, though, and the effort you go to is always appreciated.
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June 19th, 2012 at 10:52 pm 120
Jumping is probably about right, if by comfortable you mean smalish house, smallish car, public school, one vacation per year. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think you need more to be happy here, but a hundred k would not count as wealthy by any means.
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June 19th, 2012 at 11:03 pm 121
Inventory growth is slowing to crawl this month, just like 2010. Soon, it will be going down, just like 2010.
Looks like another crashless year. Bears wrong again. They should rename this site vancouverfailblog.info
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June 19th, 2012 at 11:11 pm 122
@Anonymous: It is not “inaccurate.” It may not be what you want it to be, but it is what it is. You are welcome to develop a different measure that is better for your purpose.
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June 19th, 2012 at 11:40 pm 123
@VHB:
It’s inaccurate insofar as one of the inputs you use is an estimate. That’s all I meant.
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June 20th, 2012 at 5:25 am 124
111 Ulsterman Says: ” This society is divided into an aristocracy who own mortgage-free or low mortgage homes and those who don’t.”
You miss the part where aristocracy spends decades working off that ‘free’ home. A forced choice between aristocracy and a political philosophy fueled by resentful entitlement isn’t the best place to be, but I’ll take the former every time. At least it’s productive.
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June 20th, 2012 at 7:22 am 125
[...] “Land Value Property for sale – 5038 Arbutus Street [V955311; 52x108 lot; Quilchena area of Westside]– listed for $998,000 now 13.2% below last sale price of $1.15 million on April 15, 2011- assessed value is $1,227,900. This is where you will see the 1st cracks in the Westside housing market – big lot on busy street in Westside. In a few years, this lot will be worth $300,000+. Is this a speculator who is bailing, perhaps someone who put 5% down last year, never made a payment and is walking away? It definitely sounds like a foreclosure but I have not confirmed that. Is this the Canary in the Coal Mine?” – airborne canine at VCI 19 Jun 2012 10:53am [...]
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June 20th, 2012 at 10:19 pm 126
Vancouver is a shock to immigrants. Here’s your average interaction with a Vacounverite:
All phrases but the last one are a harmless waste of time. The last one means the opposite of what it sounds like.
What is friendly about it? Everything about this routine screams “I don’t want to see you, get out of my life immediately. I have my family and high school buddies to be friends with. I am talking to you only because multiculturalism and political correctness are strictly enforced in our country.”
Do Vancouverites honestly expect immigrants to not see through this crap, or to find any shred of actual rapport in it?
Here’s a cheatsheet that must be handed to every newcomer: http://d3uwin5q170wpc.cloudfront.net/photo/158468_700b_v1.jpg. In the first column, replace British with Vancouverite.
Friendly means open, accessible, intuitive, simple, straightforward. Vancouver is nepotist, snobbish, hypocritical, political, self-obsessed.
People are not welcome here, but there is nothing wrong with this. It’s pretending that this isn’t so that is wrong.
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June 22nd, 2012 at 11:47 am 127
Abi Bond’s plan to house to house people off-shore sounds a bit ‘out there’, but I’ve stayed with friends at student container housing in Amsterdam and it was amazing. Architecturally intriguing, affordable and communal. However, this was ‘on land’. http://www.tempohousing.com/projects/keetwonen.html
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