Friday Free-for-all!

It’s Friday and that means it’s time for our regular end of the week news round-up and open topic discussion thread! Here are a few links to kick off the chat:

-Business feels pinched by property tax
-Anecdotes from the bubble
-Inventory graph update
-The contractor for the best price?
-Housing bubble in a nutshell
-Mayors report on affordable housing
-Burnabonian porny construction query
-Radical downsizing
-After 6 years in US at bottom?

So what are you seeing out there? Post your news links, thoughts and anecdotes here and have an excellent summer weekend!

233 Responses to “Friday Free-for-all!”

- ♦ ↓ ↓ ↓ Click here to leap to comment form ↓ ↓ ↓ ♦ -

    Another one shuts its doors in Vancouver, following lay-offs from Nokia (Burnaby), CBC, Sears, Rogers, game development companies, paper mills, banks, teachers, public sector staffs thus far in the first half of 2012.

    June 28: B.C.’s Radical Entertainment lays off 89 staff

    I feel bad for those who received the pink slips.. but I have a feeling this is just the beginning..
    Layoff tracking thread is located at VancouverPeak

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    My favorite suggestion in the vancouver sun article is that renting an apartment from an individual investor is adequate to supply the rental demands. Yes, moving every time someone flips their property is a great long term solution to our housing needs. In addition, the article seems opposed to the idea that the housing existing on leased land continue to exist. I live in the false creek area, in one of the many coops that keep the area vibrant. It is packed full of families living in two and three bedroom units. Moving into stable affordable housing was the best thing to happen to our family, and although we are middle income earners, a childcare bill of two thousand dollars a month means money is really tight. It is so frustrating to read reports from people that have all the answers for everyone else without even taking into consideration the additional costs that young people incur – student loans and childcare. Grrr off my soapbox now.

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    fixie guy Says:
    3

    @ Little: Scrolling to the end after barely a third into the “Mayors report on affordable housing”, curious which developer authored it, I shouldn’t have been but was still shocked to find an assistant professor from the Sauder School of Business at UBC. It reads like unambiguous industry propagandizing, confirming any lingering question for me about the value of ‘urban economists’ or the Sauder School of, more accurately for, Business. The constant use of ‘we’, implying Vancouver’s remedy is a settled academic question, is laughable.
    Contracted astroturfing on consumer product forums is more credible and professional. Prospective students: think twice.

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    ZRH2YVR Says:
    4

    Just about to go the the airport for a well needed break. Did some average price analysis this morning.

    To get some indication of trends in pricing, I take a 100 sale moving average. i.e., take all sales, sort by sell date, then take the moving 100 unit average sale price. Our 2 favourite areas are interesting, being Van West and Richmond. Richmond has show significant decrease now in the past 60 days being down 15%. Even after trying to average everything out, no matter how you slice it, Richmond is down. HPI for the month has to be down – it just has to.

    Van-West, we are down 15% from the peak in February. This may not be as indicative of price decreases but it certainly is a good measure.

    Other areas are basically flat to down a bit.

    As for the impact of the new mortgage rules, I have some thoughts. The maximum mortgage available to the entry level buyer is now lower. First time buyers can borrow less and banks now have 100% of the risk for houses over $1 million. Thus creates issues at both ends of the Vancouver market. The bottom has to go lower – it has to. If you have the lowest priced unit for sale, you are going for that lower end buyer. What they can afford to pay is now less, and thus, the price will come down. At the top end, there is less liquidity for all market participants (especially offshore buyers who now must have income proof to obtain funding). We are already seeing the top-end slow down.

    Watching this is a bit like being the two guys on the Titantic who spot the iceberg. You can see it coming, but you really can’t do anything to stop it.

    The fall in the market, no matter how big, will create some serious issues for people. There has been such a massive mis-allocation of resources through the funding of the real estate in Vancouver. Think about all the other things in life people have given up to be in BPOE (including their rationality by thinking this is BPOE.) Look outside – how did you all feel in May / June? The weather really sucked. Now we have July Long Weekend – what’s the weather? really?

    In any case, the city is so out of balance, it’s tough to imagine what it will become now.

    I am off topic now – however – - Prices are coming down now. The fastest drops will be in high-priced units that have not been selling for 10+ months now. Boomers who want out of their 1+ million retirement funding plan (house) will now sell for 10% less easily just to get a sale. Their are crickets at open houses.

    One last anecdote from a good friend – Wife is realtor on north shore. Was about to close on condo purchase (she’s the buyer’s agent). Two things happened – - amount the buyer will qualify is now lower, so not sure if they can afford same place – and – the buyer said they should really wait as the market will now fall so things will get cheaper. That’s one grass-roots feedback.

    I’m off to Europe now for a bit – If I can hide it from my wife, I will peak at the blog a bit . . . post a bit and see what kind of up to date info we can get as the summer is going to define our market future now.

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    market stats Says:
    6

    @ZRH2YVR ‘massive mis-allocation of resources’

    the evidence of reduced dicretionary spending is starting to mount; last weekend wife’s running shoe store had eviction notice; going to island tonight and BC Ferries saying that despite recent trial price cuts traffic still at 21 year lows. So has something changed on the island that people don’t go anymore, was the weather worse than last year? No, they are spending everything on re and food presumably.

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    Bring on the Rain Says:
    7

    Enjoy your trip Z

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    BulbsForSale Says:
    9

    So if we’re like some of the US cities we’ll only have to wait for about 6 years to see prices stop falling. Hope you weren’t planning on buying here soon!

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    10

    @Anonymous
    http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1219238–cooling-of-housing-market-would-be-a-good-thing-flaherty-says

    The arsonist claims the credit for calling the fire department.

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    Wow, if we start losing video game developers like Radical, what decent paying jobs does Vancouver have left?

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    Firkin Says:
    12

    @Alan: Don’t worry, we’ll always have the grow-op industry.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    13

    @BulbsForSale:
    “So if we’re like some of the US cities we’ll only have to wait for about 6 years to see prices stop falling.”

    I’m looking forward to it, the US RE market just isn’t delivering that schadenfreude any more.

    What are the renters missing out on by waiting to buy anyway, apart from a lot of housework?

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    ZRH2YVR Says:
    14

    #8 – - That’s affirmative – - Meeting with new company in 2 weeks. New handle will have to be ZRH2YVR2ZRH. I’ll be back and forth until X-Mas . . . . Somehow it now feels really like the right thing to do.

    Did anyone see that great graph that was posted a couple of days ago? It shows a plot for many countries of the 2 main ratios in valuation which were price/income and price to rents? Did you see where Switzerland is? It’s extremely in balance. It’s expensive but you make a lot. And rental cap-rates are somewhat regulated.

    Off to the plane now .

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    @Vote Down The Facts: “I thought you’d moved back there?”

    I know you think you’re clever, but you obviously missed this detail in the comments:

    We’ll see how it goes and it will be a summer move

    Could it be that this trip is part of that plan?

    Housing speculation has already started to chase off people who add real value to the city. Please stop trying to chase off commenters that add real value to this site with your bitchy little snarky comments.

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    @ZRH2YVR: Ah! I see my supposition was correct.

    I for one am glad that it will be a drawn out process if it means you will continue to post here :)

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    @patriotz:
    The twist is, the arsonist IS the fire department

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    fixie guy Says:
    18

    10 patriotz Says: “The arsonist claims the credit for calling the fire department.”

    Worse, he claims credit for being the fire chief.

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    C.Junta Says:
    19

    Regarding the loss of “high-paying jobs” cries.

    Here is a link to glassdoor’s review of Radical salaries:
    http://bit.ly/LVSfU4

    The sample is small, but that’s everything we can get.

    The salaries don’t look very impressive. Of course, this type of companies usually offer generous bonuses when the game is successsful. But if you add unpaid extra hours, the lack of job security and pension/rrsp plans to the equation, I wouldn’t call it “high-paying”.

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    gokou3 Says:
    20

    @C.Junta: I see an average salary of ~$75k which is about the average HOUSEHOLD income in Vancouver. I wouldn’t say it’s not impressive.

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    Vote Down The Facts Says:
    21

    @Scott: “I know you think you’re clever”

    Touchy. In fact, I think ZRH2YVR is one of the most financially literate and courteous people here, and makes valuable contributions that go way beyond the constant nonsensical immigrations debates that define this blog. I understand that “chasing off other posters” is a position that’s already been filled here, anyway.

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    Anonymous Says:
    22

    FYI Radical didn’t fully close down. They kept around 20 people.

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    C.Junta Says:
    23

    @gokou3:

    True.

    On average, a registered nurse in GV makes about the same: http://bit.ly/KI9MN2

    But they have:
    - well-paid extra hours;
    - bomber-proof job security;
    - retirement-related perks

    Time and money spent on education is comparable. So, we should call RN a “a bit more than just a high-paying job”, shouldn’t we?

    What I want to say is: there is a myth created in late nineties about IT guys who make a lot of money for clicking their keyboards. Those times are gone.

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    @market stats:

    Fewer Americans are going to Victoria with our high dollar and their weak economy. A small cut in ferry prices isn’t going to bring those people back anytime soon.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    25

    @C.Junta:
    “On average, a registered nurse in GV makes about the same:”

    The average RN is also a lot older and has little prospect of salary increases beyond inflation.

    I’m sure that the even the senior software engineers at Radical – who make more than the average RN – are a lot younger.

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    Lord Huggington Says:
    26

    Speaking of high property taxes for businesses in Vancouver, it’s pretty impressive how many shops have shut down just recently downtown. One of the Starbucks on Robson is gone (along with the White Spot next to it) as is the bag shop across the street from them, Payless Shoes on Robson and Bute gone, Odoul’s is gone, after the American Appeal shops combined there’s another space sitting empty, Book Off just closed up down near Dunsmuir, of course the old HMV has been sitting empty for a while now. It certainly feels like business is drying up downtown very quickly given how many places have closed up in rapid succession.

    I did smirk a bit at the Dollar Store that just opened near Shangri La, though. Doesn’t seem quite as upscale as what I think developers were aiming for in that areas. :p

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    taylor192 Says:
    27

    C. Junta,

    You’re everything that is wrong with the world today. $75K/yr puts you in the top 14% of earners, and $90K puts you in the top 7.5% – yet you don’t consider that a “high salary”. FFS

    http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/10/25/rank-your-income-where-do-you-stand-compared-to-the-rest-of-canada/

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    Sold for over asking meets sold for under asking. I wonder if we will be seeing this in the cartels RE rags? So sick of the BS buy now its gonna go higher, sell now its gonna go lower, get in before the changes…..hello? They just want you to buy,or sell. Crap, this market has been manipulated by the RE Board and there sources, banks, brokers,government policies,advertising. What do you expect the mainstream papers/radio/internet sources to say when RE pumps so much money their way. Its fixed, another Ponzi scheme another hand in your pocket, hunker down this storm has just started. Do your research and do not trust someone who is on commission, both sides have one objective,your money.

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    UnagiDon Says:
    29

    @taylor192: That’s a national average. $75K/yr is a great salary if you live in Medicine Hat. But it’s not so easy to survive on that if you live in Vancouver. For many young folk, housing and daycare expense will use up $75k pretty quickly.

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    C.Junta Says:
    30

    @patriotz:

    “average RN is also a lot older”
    Maybe. But this doesn’t make their jobs less “high-paying”.

    “little prospect of salary increases beyond inflation”
    Not all programmers become executives. Most of them write code while their brain allows them to, and then switch to something less lucrative. To put it simple: unless they change their career path dramatically and go to the upper management level, their chances to stay in the industry after 50 are close to zero. That’s exactly what I am talking about: zero job security.

    Again: I don’t want to start a holy war here. I personally find the term “high-paying job” ambiguous and full of cliches. If somebody defines it as “higher than average/median household income for your area” – that’s fine. My definition of “high-paying job” may be different. It becomes a matter of terminology.

    Speaking about median household income in GV: here are some recent numbers I managed to Google:
    $67,550 – http://bit.ly/ypvfi8
    $67,090 – http://bit.ly/MXIGFg
    If somebody has some credible stats that prove otherwise – please share them.

    This is why I don’t consider 75K a “high-paying” job in Vancouver. If you are on your own, that’s not too bad. If you have a family and you are the main (or the only) breadwinner – that’s a totally different story.

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    UnagiDon Says:
    31

    Are bankrupt seniors harbingers of things to come?
    (e.g., a 25k party?)

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/06/22/f-bankrupt-seniors.html

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    ScubaSteve Says:
    32

    It looks like Richmond and Vancouver West will be competing for the “biggest drop” this year. A race to the bottom! Richmond has the MOI to be a contendor, but Vancouver-West has the ultra high prices. Which one wins? My money is on Richmond.

    As for Vancouver East, the prices are about to plunge there too as people realize they are paying west side prices for east side units. Cities like Burnaby will be especially hit hard, while condos in suburbs like Coquitlam, Port Coquitlam and Port Moody will be empty. I think detached in Suburbs and condos in Downtown will actually fare better than most. Everyone is predicting a condo meltdown, but I think it will be the suburb condos that meltdown most. Who the heck would pay $300,000 for a 2 bedroom condo in Surrey once prices start crashing?

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    You can now buy RIM for the price of a japadog.

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    condo paradise Says:
    34

    Not that this has much to do about anything … but I could not help but notice that the new Rush tour is not performing in Vancouver this year. I guess they are too. busy playing in world class cities like
    Columbus, Buffalo, San. Jose and many other important hubs around North America and couldn’t squeeze in a stopover . Or perhaps we are too world class for this type of entertainment. We should stick to hockey and rioting.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    35

    Talked to an old friend in Burnaby today. About a year ago someone bought the house next door and spent several months doing a total reno. Then the house went on sale for months with no takers. Then it went off the market. Then it went on sale again.

    And now they are tearing it down. No attempt to salvage anything. Remember in decades past you could drive around the city and go to the demo sales where they spent a week or two selling off the fixtures and stuff first.

    This is wholesale destruction of wealth. Question is who took or will take the hit – the previous owner, the builders, or the next owner, or some combination of the above.

    It’s doesn’t get any crazier than this.

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    Anonymous Says:
    36

    Debt-plagued arsonist commits suicide in courtroom:

    “In the year before the fire, his bank account shrank from $900,000 to just $50. He had a monthly mortgage of $17,250 on the mansion with a balloon payment of $2.3million coming due. In addition, Marin paid another $2,500 per month on a more modest home in Gilbert — where Rapp said he actually lived — and had an overdue tax bill of more than $34,000.

    “Marin tried to set up a raffle to pay off the loan, but it was deemed illegal by law enforcement and shut down. Then the house burned.”

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2012/06/28/20120628man-found-guilty-arson-collapses-courtroom-brk.html

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    HAM Solo Says:
    37

    Another point or two of data on the impact of the mortgage rule changes.

    Not that CAAMP is my favorite source, but their fall 2011 study indicated a couple of interesting points. First, 41% of all new mortgages originated in Canada in 2011 were greater than 25 year amortizations. Second, 37% of mortgages taken out in 2011 were variable rate.

    So, not that many people who read this site would disagree with the idea, but it lays out the case that about 40% of all new mortgagees are pretty stretched. Somewhere, I also remember seeing the stat that indicated 5% down was the downpayment of something like 65% of first time buyers (I have no source here) put 5% down. And, as we know, all the big banks were running the 5% cash back programs until recently.

    So thinking about the stretched first time buyer, who was maybe 40% of the market nationally, but probably 60% of the market in Vancouver, that person is highly affected by the rule changes. Therefore, as other readers have pointed out, there ought to be immediate effects at entry-level price points in Vancouver (which, let’s face it is anywhere up to $800K).

    If you then think about the market above $1 million, with CMHC gone, that change theoretically opens up the market for Genworth MIC to insure those mortages. Except, why has MIC’s stock price continued to flounder in the wake of Flaherty’s changes? Because of course, Genworth doesn’t believe in the $1M plus market either, and also the lenders don’t believe in Genworth.

    Imagine being the poor sod required to make the case to your boss in the bank that they should underwrite a $1.2 million mortgage on a dump in Vancouver without CMHC insurance. And even as dumb and as ridiculously optimistic as the boss in the mortgage approval function is at any BC credit union or bank must be…by now even he (or she) must understand about half of what a grade 11 student who occasionally reads this blog might understand, that inventories are piling up and prices are dropping. So the natural response would be to turn down loans, or restrict terms, or demand more documentation…all of which must undoubtedly be accelerating this downturn.

    http://www.caamp.org/meloncms/media/Report%20Fall%202011%20ENG%20web.pdf

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    Harry Wang Says:
    38

    @UnagiDon: “Are bankrupt seniors harbingers of things to come?”

    Who’s going to wipe the bankrupt senior’s asses? It isn’t going to be their spoiled, selfish kids, that’s for sure.

    Open the immigration flood gates to cheap labor?

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    granite countertop Says:
    39

    I wanted to see more discussion on the affordability report.
    Of course it’s a farce. They totally ignore the elephant in the room, the RE bubble.
    But I’m happy with their medium density housing recommendation. Vancouver RE is built as an investment, not as shelter. Medium density is at least a step in the right direction. If a SFH has a basement suite it’s by definition not a SFH anymore, and everyone would be better off living in buildings designed for multiple occupancy, like townhomes. OTOH, any kind of housing can be built Vancouver style (shoddy workmanship but granite countertops make it look luxury).
    The Affordable Housing Commission might be what we need in the long term. It also might destroy the city financially.

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    Anonymous Says:
    40

    @HAM Solo: Correct me if I’m wrong (Jesse???), but also compounding the $1M+ is the lack of bulk insurance available to the banks from CMHC. Wasn’t this insurance used for mortgages with over 20% down payment or on higher end properties? If I am correct, this would be a double whammy for that market.

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    ArthurFonzarelli Says:
    41

    Absolutely HUGE immigration changes announced this month, formalized yesterday… Citizenship and Immigration Canada has COMPLETELY SUSPENDED its economic immigration class intake from July 1, 2012 to Jan 1, 2013 – this constitutes approximately 80,000 of our roughly 260,000 immigrants per year – almost all of the wealthiest ones, including Investor Immigrants and Federal Skilled Workers. They begin intake on January 1st again – no applications in the queue are being considered – they all need to re-apply. It takes almost a year to process new applications. This will be HUGE. http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Ottawa+puts+freeze+immigration+programs+skilled+foreign+workers/6859278/story.html

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    space889 Says:
    42

    @market stats: Or too busy waiting at the border to fill up on US gas and groceries??

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    C.Junta Says:
    43

    @ArthurFonzarelli:

    Thanks Arthur.

    “In spite of the fact that we have labour shortages, we have immigrants who are not working, even in Alberta,”

    Yeah, surprise. After all those years observing pizza delivery guys with university degrees, they have realized something is not working.

    As for the investor immigration program – its value for local communities and the country as a whole was always questionable.

    Together with the (big) changes to the family reunification program (http://bit.ly/LWeqcK), this is going to change the face of canadian immigration.

    I bet they will keep running the skilled labor program in some form though. After all, it’s IMO way better than US GC lottery or the way they accept immigrants in some parts of Europe.

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    space889 Says:
    44

    @Dave: uhm…those people uses the WA state ferry that lands right at Inner Harbour, not BC Ferry. That’s a straw man argument….geez!

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    @ArthurFonzarelli:

    Re: Immigrant investor program, Kenney is shutting off new intakes this year, however, 4500 cases from existing inventory will still be approved(according to SingTao Chinese newspaper report).

    in 2011 , there were 10586 investor-class landings in Canada.
    Assuming each case comprise of 2.5 individuals, there will still be ~11000 investor-class landings this year.

    I think most of the impact This year will be investor psychology. The flippers may start to get worried that in the coming years, there won’t be enough “HAM” to pass the baton to..

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    HAM Solo Says:
    46

    Here’s a question for folks in the banking business. File this one under “where are the losses?”

    This is what I know:

    - fairly big parts of the province have been in a housing downturn for over 1 year with damage to date of 10-15% on price. These include the Okanagan, Whistler/Squamish, anywhere North of Victoria on Vancouver island (particularly if retirement oriented), Kootenays.

    -more recently downturn started hitting locally (Richmond, West Side, parts of fraser valley and various suburbs like Coquitlam,etc). Prices may be down 5-10% from peak, but they are quite recent.

    -also, I note that the BC average provincial weekly wage started diving vs the rest of the country in Jan/Feb and has now dropped about 4% in the past 4/5 months. The data gets weaker every month.

    -anecdotally, one sees news about rising foreclosure counts in the Okanagan etc, but there is no central repository of data here.

    From all this, I conclude that people must be hurting, and that somewhere losses must be piling up. However, if you look at the financial statements of Central 1 (which is the top entity for BC credit unitions) as of March 31, everything was peachy…no losses. Same thing with Genworth…modest losses, no delinquencies.

    And here is what I assume is happening:

    -consumers are avoiding facing the music through kiting. Don’t have employment income? Why not tap that HELOC? Or maybe re-fi and extract “equity” from the bank but, seeing as they don’t ask for employment verification, you don’t tell them.

    -banks are being a little slow to report gathering losses. Particularly on the residential construction contractor side, I wonder why we aren’t seeing the credit unions and CWB etc reporting all kinds of problems in places like Whistler, the Okanagan etc, where as I understand it, very big projects have gone sideways in a serious way.

    -to a degree, the BC situation is unique in its severity and how long it has been going on. Therefore, larger national institutions have been successful in burying the decline in averages…for now.

    -then of course, there is just the natural delay in the financial reporting cycle. If books close in June, the results aren’t published until the summer. So what we are seeing in PaulB’s numbers is going to take a few months to show up in credit trends.

    However, on the foregoing points, I am just guessing. There must be a lot of readers of this blog who work in areas where they are exposed to a piece of this puzzle real time. What are you seeing?

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    47

    @ArthurFonzarelli:
    I think you’re misreading the article. Skilled workers will keep coming to Canada. What’s being cut off is the applications:

    Speaking to reporters after his speech, Kenney said the moratorium will not result in fewer skilled immigrants coming to Canada.

    “We’re not reducing the number of people we bring in – we’re just putting a freeze on the number of new applications that we put in the backlog,” he (Kenny) said.

    Nor will the number of people coming under family class be reduced in the short run, although it appears they will try to reduce the number of parents and grandparents from immigrating in the long run.

    Note also that spouses comprise about 75% of family class immigrants and they receive the highest priority of all immigrants and are not subject to any quota.

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    van_coffee Says:
    48

    Fonzarelli –
    I think you are reading a bit too much into that article.

    With respect to the Investor Immigrant Program, that article said that they were not adding to the existing backlog of applications – it didn’t say that they were not going to process the existnig backlog.

    In any event, I like the sounds of this.

    We are allowing in the wrong type of immigrants into Canada. I am totally pro immigration and I don’t care if they are white, chinese, black, whatever….my only criteria is that you come here and work your ass off and pay taxes here…

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    pennysaver Says:
    49

    interesting article – http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Forecasters+home+prices+fall/6851705/story.html

    Especially like this quote from the TD’s Craig Alexander, chief economist – “Vancouver prices just seem insane.”

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    ArthurFonzarelli Says:
    50

    @Patriotz
    The article’s not entirely clear in terms of what’s actually happening… CIC has already eliminated almost all the backlog, and refunded application fees. There are some applications in the queue that are still being processed, and they have worked with some PNP offices to help “mine” the backlog for good candidates to bring forward. But they still cut off 280,000 applicants in the system, and are not taking in any new applications for six more months. Processing of the few stragglers in the backlog that didn’t get refunded will continue to trickle through, but CIC is seriously cutting review volumes until the fresh round of intake come Jan 1, 2013.

    But Kenney’s right – LONG TERM – this doesn’t impact approval volumes. CIC’s admission range targets are still ~270,000 per year for the foreseeable future, it just eliminates the backlog and reduces intake to equal output to avoid a backlog accumulation. But SHORT term there will be a major slowdown of approvals for almost a year. I don’t see how they can come anywhere near 270K approvals this fiscal, especially with their gutting of staff.

    If you have better direct intel than this I’m all ears…

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    Sheesh Says:
    51

    Buried oil tank costs North Vancouver homeowner $85,000: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/06/29/bc-oil-tank-removal.html

    “Under North Vancouver’s municipal guidelines, if you are selling your home and a tank is found on the property, it must be disclosed to the buyer and removed. The seller must pay the full cost.”

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    Devore Says:
    52

    @patriotz:

    This is wholesale destruction of wealth. Question is who took or will take the hit – the previous owner, the builders, or the next owner, or some combination of the above.

    Never mind the destruction of wealth, what about the environment? How much energy went into extracting, refining, manufacturing, packaging and installing all of this, and transporting it all over the place? Just an hour ago there was a piece on CKNW about the millions the public sector (schools, hospitals) spend on carbon indulgences (they actually used the word “forgiveness”, the nerve) every year, paid to private companies to wave their magic green wand.

    For a city that fashions itself a mecca of green, we certainly destroy a lot of perfectly functional hardware only to replace it with vacant square footage that still has to be heated, cleaned and maintained.

    Still pales in comparison to the wholesale environmental and resource slaughter (in which Canada is profitably complicit) taking place in China, just to keep up appearances.

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    ibought3 Says:
    53

    Got this email from LedMac.. the desperation is never more apparent:

    DON’T MISS OUT

    As a previous visitor to a Ledingham McAllister community, we would like to take this opportunity to inform you of some very important news regarding adjustments to the rules for government-backed insured mortgages.

    The Federal Government plans to reduce the maximum amortization period to 25 years from 30 years for new government-backed insured mortgages with less than twenty percent down. The adjustments to the mortgage insurance guarantee framework will come into force on July 9th, 2012, however anyone that locks in before this date will qualify under the old rules as long as you close before December 31st, 2012. If you are considering purchasing a new home this year, we encourage you to secure your mortgage pre-approval before the July 9th deadline and to call us ASAP to find out how you can take advantage of home ownership under the old rules.

    I would be happy to discuss this in further detail and to provide you with a list of our trusted mortgage lenders. I can be reached at…

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    Randomposter Says:
    54

    “Dave Says:
    June 29th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    @market stats:

    Fewer Americans are going to Victoria with our high dollar and their weak economy. A small cut in ferry prices isn’t going to bring those people back anytime soon.”

    Not likely, few Americans ride the BC Ferries to the island unless they are making a loop through Vancouver. The Blackball Ferry or Victoria Clipper (foot traffic only)to the Victoria inner harbour and the WA State Ferry to Sidney are more convenient and cheaper, also faster customs at the ferries compared to the Peace Arch on a weekend.

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    ZRH2YVR Says:
    55

    Just between flights – checking the stats – - OMG – 2 days in a row with almost no sales? What’s going on here???

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    rksleung Says:
    56

    Is there anyone out here familiar with the rules of cutting trees down in Vancouver?

    I came across so many incidents of tall trees being cut down recently on the West side. The latest is on 33rd and Trafalgar. There are 5 trees simutaneously being cut down in preparation of a new SFH. The trees are huge with circumference hardly wrapped around by a single person. My estimate is that the trees are at least 60 years old. And there are 5 of them. I am disgusted to see this since the trees were on the perimeter and were not obstructing the construction at all.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @ZRH2YVR:
    Thanks for the on-the-fly updates!
    I wonder these unusually low sales numbers may be related to
    “Underwriting during the interim period (June 21-July 8) may be especially vigilant, in an effort to weed out the marginal borrowers who spring from the woodwork” – CanadianMortgageTrends

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    VanRant Says:
    58

    @ZRH2YVR: Does that mean we beat the record lows for sales in 2008 and the last 10 years!!!!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Rosie the Riveter Says:
    59

    @Sheesh:
    I walked past that house on a regular basis and for three weeks they were removing half of the front yard and down about 8 feet. I was wondering what the cost was going to be. Wow $85k to remove a leaking oil tank.

    The owner made a nice profit on the house – quit looking for free money. Shame on her.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    60

    Toronto RE teetering:

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/toronto-house-began-tilt-during-reno-demolished-193135374.html

    There’s an omen for you.

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    New Listings 244
    Price Changes 166
    Sold Listings 67
    TI:19630

    http://www.laurenandpaul.ca

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    Anonymous Says:
    62

    @paulb: Oh yeah baby…this ship is going down!!!!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    63

    @Anonymous: It might just be a “just before a long weekend phenomena” related to staff prioritizing listings over sales and being short staffed die to people taking an extra long weekend.

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    Best place on meth Says:
    64

    Only 2 houses sold on the east side today.

    While that in itself is pitiful, the prices are even more interesting because sales over asking were still very, very common just a few weeks ago.

    3815 Glen Dr. 20 days on market
    Ask $1,050K (originally $1,089K)
    Sell $940K

    6593 Wales 16 days on market
    Ask $1329K
    Sell $1215K

    Neither of these houses were listed long ago, yet the sellers took what was offered and ran.

    Meanwhile, Paul gives us sweet numbers two days in a row with inventory taking off again.

    Hmmm…..

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    Best place on meth Says:
    65

    @Anonymous:

    “It might just be a “just before a long weekend phenomena” related to staff prioritizing listings over sales and being short staffed die to people taking an extra long weekend.”

    The last Friday before a long weekend had 135 sales, higher than the average for May.

    So I doubt it.

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    Best place on meth Says:
    66

    2420 sales this month.

    Down 26.3% from last June.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    mobile vhb Says:
    67

    One day is a fluke. Two is a trend.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    mobile vhb Says:
    68

    Looking good for July with under 2K sales, more than 20K inventory, and double digit MoI.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Makaya Makaya Says:
    69

    Everything was fine until the last 15 seconds. They can’t help it at Global, can they?

    I love Tsur’s explanations of the Vancouver RE valuation: “it’s because of wealth”! Yeah right…

    http://youtu.be/IUwKFTeBHyo

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    I’m going out on a limb and calling June 2012 sales levels a slightly bearish indicator.

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    chilled chilled Says:
    71

    @rksleung:

    “Is there anyone out here familiar with the rules of cutting trees down in Vancouver?”

    http://bit.ly/MH8T8Y

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    VultureBoy Says:
    72

    @Anonymous:

    If you would have asked me before today what the sales would look like now, I’d say they’d be inflated because buyers want to squeeze in before the CMHC rules change early next month. Perhaps the new normal for sales will be a lot lower than what the bears were expecting?

    Not a prediction, just a counterpoint to your (reasonable) comment. Will be interesting to see what transpires next month.

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    McLovin Says:
    73

    Inventory is no longer at a crawl. It is leaping!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    So many beautiful homes got built in the mania…going to be one hell of a nice selection in a few years!

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    GNFINGR Says:
    75

    There was one sale in Ladner for the entire week, for SFH. Wow.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    DaMann Says:
    76

    @rksleung:
    ” My estimate is that the trees are at least 60 years old. And there are 5 of them. I am disgusted to see this since the trees were on the perimeter and were not obstructing the construction at all.”

    If they are conifers, and they are that big in diameter, they are a hell of a lot older than 60 years old. Question is how did they get the permit to do it? That usually doesn’t go unnoticed. We had a tree not far from here that was cut down, a huge cedar. The people had to put a sign on the front lawn saying it was diseased and the city had cut it down. They had so much hate mail at their door.

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    patient renter Says:
    77

    @ Makaya:

    I think the only people who are going to have any “ongst” (sic) in the next little while are the sellers!!!

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    Makaya Makaya Says:
    78

    Friday evening joke…

    Who wants to buy an unbuilt condo for $11 million?

    Somebody’s getting scared…

    http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=12079605&PidKey=-677656671

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    Patiently Waiting Says:
    79

    @patient renter: I’m starting to feel a bit of angst. My wife (from the East Coast) doesn’t want to buy, not just because of prices, but also because she doesn’t want to anchor us to Vancouver. But my family will lay on the pressure as prices decrease. Could get dicey. :P

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    @rksleung: If they cut down that many trees the would need to get an arborist in to do an assessment. If there are too many trees on the site they can be removed according to Sched C in the by law. You should forward the address to the City just in case.

    http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/planning/treebylaw/treeidxj.htm

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    @Makaya:

    Personally, I love the Global message to sellers. Hold your price. I say keep holding it guys. Let the 1% of buyers who sell now drive the market down and you guys can join in again en masse once they’re done. Aka: the second leg down.

    So many people take solace from the 6 o’clock news.

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    Damn Lumberjacks Says:
    82

    Rat those pricks out. If they didn’t get permission theyl’ll be up shit’s creek.

    Did we beat 2008 for sales ?!

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    Bo Xilai Says:
    83

    @Makaya: It’s true… Even if a nuclear bomb exploded at the Corner of West Georgia and Burrard, the Global TV reporter would almost certainly make a comment like

    “Not to worry though, thermonuclear explosions will not affect Vancouver real estate prices because of our constrained land space.”

    It’s almost like Re/Max has to vet the script of every news story.

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    gordholio Says:
    84

    74, crashcow:

    “So many beautiful homes got built in the mania…going to be one hell of a nice selection in a few years!”

    Probably true. But far more crapholes. There’s about 90 unsold townhouse and SFH crapholes within three blocks of my (rental) pad.

    Most of them are built in the evening and on Saturday, dontcha know.

    Liking the latest numbers. Can’t say we didn’t warn ‘em.

    Oh yeah, f**** Global. :-)

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    Inventory Says:
    85

    Richmond Detached Sales June

    1995 = 112
    1996 = 114
    1997 = 144
    1998 = 105
    1999 = 135
    2000 = 128
    2001 = 160
    2002 = 139
    2003 = 166
    2004 = 147
    2005 = 248
    2006 = 170
    2007 = 198
    2008 = 115
    2009 = 204
    2010 = 139
    2011 = 158
    2012 = 73 **June 28

    RICHMOND SALES AT AN ALL TIME LOW!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    New Listings 319
    Back On Market Listings 16
    Price Changes 220
    Sold Listings 133

    This is for the whole lower mainland.

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    Anonymous Says:
    87

    @HFHC: Can you clarify what “back on market” listing means? Is that a new MLS# with no idle days or is it a different criteria?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Inventory Says:
    88

    Vancouver Westside Detached Sales June

    1995 = 108
    1996 = 133
    1997 = 140
    1998 = 126
    1999 = 152
    2000 = 125
    2001 = 189
    2002 = 150
    2003 = 180
    2004 = 154
    2005 = 185
    2006 = 181
    2007 = 177
    2008 = 108
    2009 = 200
    2010 = 147
    2011 = 213
    2012 = 99 **June 28

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    I believe the (back on market) means a listing that expired but was renewed. I’m not sure. I’m not a realtor. I’m not sure about the system yet. I need to play around with it some more.

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    The Ant Says:
    90

    Oh man, I love all these stats. A big hip-hip-hooray for all of you insiders providing these current numbers, they go great with a Friday night crantini on the patio!

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    condo watcher Says:
    91

    HFHC Says:
    June 29th, 2012 at 10:22 pm

    “I believe the (back on market) means a listing that expired but was renewed. I’m not sure. I’m not a realtor. I’m not sure about the system yet. I need to play around with it some more.”
    exectly what it means—go into “history” for a listing on the system and you will see when that listing was terminated or expired and you’ll see the previous MLS # also

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    Anonymous Says:
    92

    how long after “subjects are removed” and it’s considered “sold” does it take to show up in Paul’s daily sell list?

    won’t these folks that are rushing in before July 9th not show up in the stats for a few weeks?

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    Anonymous Says:
    93

    @The Ant: I can’t afford a crantini….dry biscuits and stale water for me…That’s what I get for borrowing my folks money for a condo I can’t afford at the Olympic Village.

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    RaggedyRenter Says:
    94

    “This is speculation made by spineless, signature-less, individuals on a blog that in most cases has less than 500 followers. Vancouver’s real estate fundamentals cannot be captured in a 90-second elevator conversation, a sound bite, and especially not on a blog or 140-character tweet.” – Bob Rennie on negative market commentary (New Condo Guide)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    REBGV 2012 First Half: Sales~ 15071
    -20% vs 2011-H1 (18860)
    -7% vs 2008-H1 (16137)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    96

    @RaggedyRenter: Lolz! Angry condo king is angry! Keep up the great work, anonymous bloggerz! If this market is supported by solid earning fundamentals Rennie wouldn’t have to worry about “negativity”.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    97

    @Inventory: do you have historicals for Van East and other areas too?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    procrustes Says:
    98

    @RaggedyRenter:
    That’s a classic right there.

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    McLovin Says:
    99

    Any estimates on the price drops for June people?

    We know the Realtard Index will be +1.4% for June but what will the SFH avg be?

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    McLovin Says:
    100

    “This is speculation made by spineless, signature-less, individuals on a blog that in most cases has less than 500 followers.

    1. How is disagreeing with the religion on Real Estate make someone spineless?
    2. We have signatures :)
    3. This blog has at least 600 followers!

    That fact that Rennie would even acknowledge the existence of a blog like this shows how scared he is.

    This is the condo King of Vancouver and he is wasting time on us?

    Wow it really is over.

    40%-50% decreases are a given and we would still be expensive.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @RaggedyRenter: “Vancouver’s real estate fundamentals cannot be captured in a 90-second elevator conversation, a sound bite, and especially not on a blog or 140-character tweet”

    I wonder if Mr. Rennie bothers to notice that these bear blogs have literally thousands of posts, not just one, and have been around for years through some of the most dramatic run-ups in prices in the history of the region.

    I can’t think who he’s referring to on twitter, but I scanned through @RennieVancouver’s followers. There are a few, though not too many “bearish” tweeters on the follow list, including, ahem, @YvrHousing (me). BTW @YVRHousing has tweeted over 3000 times. That amounts to a potential for 420,000 characters. If each of those characters were worth $1 it STILL wouldn’t be enough to afford one of RMS’s flagship “affordable” condos. And what must make it particularly painful is that I don’t get paid by the word. #winning

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    Inventory Says:
    102

    Vancouver East Detached Sales June

    1995 = 145
    1996 = 175
    1997 = 185
    1998 = 136
    1999 = 233
    2000 = 185
    2001 = 269
    2002 = 203
    2003 = 282
    2004 = 243
    2005 = 303
    2006 = 396
    2007 = 244
    2008 = 139
    2009 = 238
    2010 = 145
    2011 = 180
    2012 = 107 ***June 29

    Sales at an all time LOW!

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    ZRH2YVR Says:
    103

    #102 – You beat me to it!!! Thanks for the extra data however. My point was going to be that Van-East is next piece to have finally fallen – - MOI jumped from 4 to 7 in one month. Sales down 34% in the month and Van East was the largest percentage increase in inventory at 15%. (694 from 605 units). Wow .. . This thing could go down fast.

    I feel for anyone who is not informed and ensds up buying now. One thing I do find interesting is that there are very few financial advisors willing to go right out on a limb and say – “Do not buy now”. Or, for their boomer clients – tell them to sell now and rent.

    Jet-lag not set in yet.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    104

    @jesse:
    I can capture the fundamentals in 8 words:

    Buying is over twice as expensive as renting.

    There really isn’t any more to it than that, and those who claim there is are simply saying that fundamentals don’t matter.

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    fixie guy Says:
    105

    @ 94 RaggedyRenter: Seconded, a classic example of the emotionally manipulative practices expected of a top marketer in panic, worthy of disection:

    “This is speculation made by spineless, signature-less, individuals…”

    Excellent start. Ignore the content – for the most part prosaic economics, a refusal to accept the impossible fiction of permanent real appreciation and a reliance on events across the globe – to launch directly into ad hominems. Solid logic fallacy.

    “… on a blog that in most cases has less than 500 followers.”

    Appeal to populism, playing to the crowd. “I’m The Rennie, you know and can trust me.”

    “Vancouver’s real estate fundamentals cannot be captured in a 90-second elevator conversation, a sound bite, and especially not on a blog or 140-character tweet.”

    Action packed sentence. Appeal to authority, begging the question, wrapped in a fallacies about the depth of analysis raised for discussion by bears and sealed with another ad hominem. Rennie offers nothing based on recognizable economic principles, suggesting instead it’s “complicated” for those lacking his expertise, so trust experts marketers beholden to clients selling you product.

    Rennie finds himself on a difficult precipe, faced with his source of income disappearing and his municipal reputation turn pariah. He’ll be remembered as one of the principle actors wrecking Vancouver for a buck. His normally reptilian cool breaking confirms how dire the market picture is turning.

    Relax Bob, you’ll be correct on one point. ‘Everything is going to be alright’ eventually, except for Vancouver and not you and your clients. Fair balance.

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    fixie guy Says:
    106

    FWIW, a front page article on the ‘New Condo Guide’ this morning is the grammatically questionable ‘Why Vancouver Canada Real Estate is a Best Option to Make Some Investment’ by Shane Kruger, who to no shock appears associated with Vancouver Dream Rentals.

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    Anonymous Says:
    107

    @fixie guy: Grammar is correct, it was after all written by some guy

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    The other thing that seems to be apparent is that people who make their money from real estate transactions are getting restless. This is the lowest spring sales volume in a very long time and the ranks of real estate punters has ostensibly grown during this time. Now the pie is smaller, with more hungry pigs (figuratively speaking) looking for their share.

    So I wouldn’t be surprised if the “alternate” media is being discussed in more detail now than it was before in these circles, and the strategy and tactics used to mitigate its supposed influence are going to intensify, especially if sales remain lackluster through the summer and into the fall. That may come in obvious ways, like Rennie’s uncharacteristically personal attacks as well as op-eds in the usual places, but may be more underhanded to include involving other means to control its message. That could result in more letters to blog owners like this one in efforts to shut it down. This did happen before, if we remember.

    Not to say it would come to that, but in terms of what is posted as articles on this blog, especially when it comes to comments directed towards specific people, be sure to keep it clean.

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    Crikey Says:
    109

    @McLovin:
    “This is speculation made by spineless, signature-less, individuals on a blog that in most cases has less than 500 followers. ”

    Bwahahaha, oh the irony!

    Let me tell you what is totally and obviously spineless. It is a man who is acts as a shameless market shill on airwaves absent any contrarian opinions.

    For Rennie to call bloggers “spineless” is like watching a boxer walk into a ring alone, uncontested, and mock the people watching — who aren’t allowed to come into the ring and box him — as “spineless” for not boxing with him. (Rennie, when RE goes under you have a future in the WWF!)

    If Rennie was not totally spineless he would not only advocate but DEMAND a bigger voice for the RE-hype-contrarians.

    Perhaps Rennie will find some courage tell Good, Campbell, Global, and the like that every time Rennie and his cohorts are on the air they *MUST* have a well-spoken balanced contrarian opinion on the air too?

    But I’m not holding my breath. That would also mean Good, Campbell, Global and the like would have to learn what real “journalism” is, and heaven forbid also mean they gain back some of the respect they have lost in recent years.

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    Crikey Says:
    110

    @jesse:
    “wonder if Mr. Rennie bothers to notice that these bear blogs have literally thousands of posts, not just one”

    I wonder if Mr. Rennie also realizes that blogs and Twitters allow discussion, two-way conversations, and laying out all sides of any disagreement.

    That is utterly and completely unlike what Mr. Rennie is used to, which is being a one-way contested mouthpiece on friendly turf.

    Mr. Rennie accusing bloggers and tweeters of being spineless is like Bill Gates accusing me of being rich.

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    BLISTINGAGENT Says:
    111

    After reading these posts I stepped outside to grab this week’s Vancouver New Condo Guide (should be a Collectors’ Edition) and wow it is worth the price (free.)

    The paragraph after he complains about local bloggers is even funnier:

    “… a more recent example was the Globe and Mail’s column quoting Ben Jones, an Arizona accountant/blogger, who attempted to parallel his state’s housing crisis with Vancouver and Toronto marketplaces. Straight-faced, Rennie added: “Ben can be reached at SpeakersWithoutTheFacts.com/irresponsible.”

    OH SNAP MR. RENNIE! Though that insult sounds a bit dated, and Mr. Jones has proved pretty good at interpreting facts before, and his interpretation of Vancouver’s market is unlikely to be compromised by his day job.

    Anyway definitely seems to shows that these guys have some awareness of the bear blogging scene.

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    Boombust Says:
    112

    Well! Interesting!

    At 8:55 this morning, the Global TV Newscaster told me (and you!) to stay tuned for the 9:00 News for news on the Vancouver RE “Bubble:.

    Yes, “Bubble”.

    I am still breathlessly waiting…

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    Boombust Says:
    113

    …still waiting. Now Wesla is doing the Weather…

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    Boombust Says:
    114

    …onto a commercial. It’s UP NEXT!

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    They have a guy on global right now telling people that we are only 15 percent over valued. He was also saying that only 20 percent of all mortgages are under twenty percent down. His name is don Campbell. Is he just trying to sell books? Does anyone know what he actually does?

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    Boombust Says:
    116

    Beats the heck outta me.

    This dweebie-looking Don Campbell guy wrote “Secrets of the Canadian RE Cycle”…didn’t offer much. (Surprise!)

    He was talking out of both sides of his mouth.

    He said we are “over-valued: but “not in a bubble”. Oh.

    Expect a “slowdown” but nothing like a “Phoenix” or a “Palm Desert”. That sort of thing.

    Perhaps Hitler was right. SOME books should be burned.

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    Chem guy Says:
    117

    OMG, that Zdon Cambell guy was an IDIOt!!,

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    118

    could this Vancouver weather be any more depressing?

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    HAM Solo Says:
    119

    @ raggedy renter & jesse

    First they ignore you

    Then they laugh at you

    Then they fight you

    Then you win.

    -Mohandas K. Gandhi

    (p.s. I think “they” just started fighting us)

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    Anonymous Says:
    120

    can someone please tell me how long it takes for a listing to be taken off MLS after a sale? I’m assuming it’s considered a sale after all subjects have been removed?

    I’m trying to figure out if a sale went through in my neighbourhood, I was told it sold, but there is no sold sign on the real estate sign and it’s still showing up on MLS…..wondering if the buyers backed out

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    fixie guy Says:
    121

    115 HFHC Says: “They have a guy on global right now telling people that we are only 15 percent over valued.”

    Guessing here, was his reasoning: “I’m DON CAMPBELL, trust me”?

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    Boombust Says:
    122

    Silly me.

    A quick Google search states that Don Campbell is highly involved with something called the “Real Estate Investment Network”.

    I guess he’s our very own Tom Vu!

    Again, such “in-depth” reportin g from Global.

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    There was another “economist” on the news a month or so ago saying that we are over valued 10% here and now this guy is saying 15%. I wonder if these people were saying that real estate in Vancouver was 50% undervalued 10 years ago? Or 80% undervalued 25 years ago?

    I’d like to check out their calculations and models they used to figure this out… Or wait… do you think that maybe, just maybe, they are pulling numbers out of their a$$?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Yalie Says:
    124

    @Boombust:

    A quick Google search states that Don Campbell is highly involved with something called the “Real Estate Investment Network”.

    Not just “involved with” (from the REIN website):

    Don R. Campbell – President

    Canadian-based real estate investor, researcher, author and educator. Who the media comes to for Unbiased Real Estate Research.

    “Unbiased”… hmmm. As the Spanish dude from The Princess Bride might say, “You real estate pumpers keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

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    condo watcher Says:
    125

    Don Campbell is a frequent “guest” on BNN –here is a link to his performances on their pumping network

    http://www.reincanada.com/BNN-Videos.aspx
    ps: don’t watch after eating !!!!

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    good-format Says:
    126

    Here are the latest stats showing how many new listings are actually recycled listings that had been previously pulled. In April out of locations with 100 or more new listings the highest was Richmond with 21.4%. In May 6 locations beat that with the highest being Richmond again with 27.4%. This month we have a new leader in West Vancouver where more than 1/3 of the new listings are recycled and again 6 regions beat the previously recorded high from May and overall almost 1/4 of all listings are recently pulled and relisted listings…

    http://vancouverpricedrop.wordpress.com/

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    Anonymous Says:
    127

    To be fair to BNN, some balance from David Lepoidevin:

    http://watch.bnn.ca/#clip695408

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Best place on meth Says:
    128

    Rennie is coming unglued because his cozy relationship with the ultra-corrupt BC Liberals is coming to an end next spring, and with it goes all the perks and preferential treatment he’s enjoyed for the past 10 years.

    Hey Rennie: from a spineless, signature-less, individual on a blog – go fuck yourself, sleazebag.

    Oh sorry Jesse, you said keep it clean didn’t you?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Best place on meth Says:
    129

    Oh hey Bob, nice photo.

    http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/mainlander/2012/05/bc-liberals-and-bob-rennie-tighten-grip-housing-construction-vanco

    Who’s your pal on the right, one of the Gambino family members?

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    kabloona kabloona Says:
    130

    Good archival material on Don Campbell over at VREAA….

    Example:

    http://vreaa.wordpress.com/2010/10/30/bnn-don-campbell-interview-transcript-the-apocalypse-is-not-coming-plateau-as-worse-case-scenario/

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Was looking at this cool time-lapse map showing % changes in US unemployment and thought: it would be awesome if in a few years we had this kind of map showing the lower mainland regions and % change in foreclosures.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @Anonymous: Maybe Rennie thinks David Lepoidevin is also spineless and signature-less? He’s on TV, with his name captioned, sounding the alarm on the banks while working for a bank.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    New Listings 32
    Back On Market Listings 0
    Price Changes 18
    Sold Listings 0

    Looks like people are working on the weekends

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    Urbain Says:
    134

    @Best place on meth: Rennie is in a right little conflict of interest there, isn’t he?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    The only ones that are spineless in this whole saga are the ones working for the RE industry, who know theres a problem with the market, but continue to lie because doing so protects their ass. That would include Rennie, sewerville, the cams and global tv.

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    Federal government seeks comments on tighter rules for foreign students
    - seems like this will conflict with Christie Clark’s Grand Plan
    JUNE 29, 2012
    OTTAWA – The Immigration Department is looking at tightening the rules covering foreign students, and wants to know what Canadians think.

    A notice in the latest Canada Gazette asks for written comments from interested parties on proposals that would ensure students from overseas actually go to school, and would prevent them from staying here legally if they quit their studies.

    New rules would also ensure that schools drawing foreign students are legitimate operations.

    The proposal says the present rules are loose compared with other countries.

    There is [currently] no formal requirement that students actually go to school once they get here, nor are there rules about what kinds of schools qualify….

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    fixie guy Says:
    137

    108 jesse Says: “So I wouldn’t be surprised if the “alternate” media is being discussed in more detail now than it was before in these circles, and the strategy and tactics used to mitigate its supposed influence are going to intensify…. to include involving other means to control its message. “

    Don’t discount the probable, paid astroturfers entering the forums. It’s industry standard practice now to contract specialists in steering opinion, building ‘engagement’ and generating doubt for clients in social media.
    It seems inevitable, BC real estate interests have so longed owned the attention of traditional media that contrarian voices have an alien abducted tinge. When their primary means of influencing public opinion becomes ineffective, expect change. But don’t particularly expect rabid bulls, moderation has taken care of the old days of crap flooding and simplistic abuse. The smart money is on mod manipulation, an influx of fault finding bears, maybe even genuine discussion!

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    Anonymous Says:
    138

    @Anonymous: ….could this Vancouver weather be any more depressing?….

    Yes, try living here for a year. It doesn’t get any better!

    Best place on earth (if you’re amphibious).

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Patiently Waiting Says:
    139

    @VMD: Wow, Kenney’s rampage continues. Agree or disagree, I’ve never seen a politician do so much. I think allies and foes alike are still trying to figure out what the whole agenda is and how this will change our country.

    As for the BC Liberals, they should just call the election and get it over with. Both Krueger and Heed are now retiring. Expect many more. Maybe some will do the honorable thing and just step down immediately.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Patiently Waiting Says:
    140

    @Best place on meth: Indeed, I’m not buying the “he’s just a salesman” line anymore.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    #134 @Urbain: “Rennie is in a right little conflict of interest there, isn’t he?”

    Conflict of interest is just another word for successful, isn’t it?

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    Bears,

    Be happy. Mr. Rennie is an older man. He’s not equipped to evaluate social media. He’s used to the relationship industry has developed with print and broadcast media. There is almost no way for the blogosphere to monetize real estate blogs. So it’s one slice of the media that cannot be bought. Plus, he’s recently dumped his boyfriend and is very distracted with another young (YOUNG) man.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Bo Xilai Says:
    143

    Just drove past three open houses in Pemberton Heights (North Van) today(two repeats from last weekend)…

    Waterlogged crickets attempted to chirp…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    patsan Says:
    144

    Yesterday I noticed a somewhat innovative approach to open housing technique. Open house was hold from 5 to 7 p.m. and few open house posters were along the busy 41st in Vancouver. If the desperation goes like that, we might be soon able to see “open house” bigboards on busy intersections and on inserts to Safeway shopping carts.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Navin R. Johnson Says:
    145

    I love how these so-called economists, especially real estate ones, try and make it sound like economics is some kind of tricky science with all these indicators….

    No it isn’t. Markets go up and markets come down.

    Again, as I mentioned before, I am not interested in anchoring myself with heafty mortgage payments, taxes and upkeep. I just wanna rub some bullish noses in it when all’s said and done.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @jesse: The RE industry can try all the tricks they want to delay the inevitable – at one point (’11?) nothing they do will work. They had papa government on their side in ’09 and managed to keep frankenstein alive for another few years. This time, Igor ain’t on their side.

    Fighting with blogs is such a complete waste of their time. It’s the seismic shift that’s happening in the mainstream media, banks & government they should be pissing their pants about. I’ve collected over 30 uber bearish articles in the last 6 months from the g&m, cbc, post, cdn business, macleans and economist.

    The word is out. People are whispering in each others ears. Good luck delaying the inevitable this time. Watching these leeches kick & squirm, scapegoat and sob all the way down will provide tonnes of entertainment.

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    chilled chilled Says:
    147

    @Boombust:

    “…still waiting. Now Wesla is doing the Weather…”

    Is she hot or what!! I can never focus on a word she says. Typical Global, really.

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    chilled chilled Says:
    148

    Constant (justifiable) complaining about Vancouver’s media.

    Do what I did;

    -loose the TV and associated cable
    -use an independent ISP i.e.;
    http://www.canadianisp.ca/cgi-bin/ispsearch.cgi?f=Search&p=BC
    -especially DO NOT use SHAW/Telus, etc
    -DO NOT support ANYTHING published by the Global/CamWest?SHAW propaganda machine, including online

    Final step, STFU!!

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    chilled chilled Says:
    149

    @Best place on meth:

    He’s a fudge packer, not a contortionist!!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Best place on meth Says:
    150

    @Patiently Waiting:

    “Krueger and Heed are now retiring. Expect many more. Maybe some will do the honorable thing and just step down immediately.”

    The most honourable thing a BC Liberal can do is to commit hari-kari.

    Christie should lead by example on live TV.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Urbain Says:
    151

    @rp1: “Conflict of interest is just another word for successful, isn’t it?”

    Not at all. It does represent greed and bias though. Someone with skin in the game should not be setting or directing policy. There is no way that person can make a decision that is rational or in the best interest of society as a whole.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Hibernating Renter Says:
    152

    Does anyone have a link to that US news clip about foreclosures, where a woman sobbed into the camera, “They promised us they wouldn’t sell for less than market value”? It was a classic moment that I’d love to relive.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Hibernating Renter Says:
    154

    @Anonymous: That’s the one! Thanks!

    Forget foreclosures, this is the sort of bull crap (hah!) that will be spewing out of pumpers pretty soon regarding the typical sale.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Makaya Makaya Says:
    155

    Excellent post from VancouverPriceDrop:

    You won’t believe this but Global TV got their facts wrong in a “news” segment about real estate. Before consulting “experts” who said there was nothing to worry about they highlighted the sad state of affairs our real estate market is currently in. Among the points was that 20% of sellers have reduced their asking price! If you haven’t been following this blog then that seems very high but it is wrong. The number is actually 38% because Global’s numbers did not include the rampant practice of delisting and then relisting with a lower price. Additionally, if you exclude very recent listings then these numbers will of course grow even higher.

    Here are some highlights:

    http://vancouverpricedrop.wordpress.com/2012/06/30/lowered-expectations-june-30-2012/

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    Anonymous Says:
    156

    Ozzie Jurock turns bearish on Vancouver real estate. Tells people to sell now if you “need to lighten up”. He goes over the early numbers for June. Very bearish. SFH average price down 15% year over year.

    Start audio for June 30th at 9:00 am and go to the 43 min mark.

    http://www.cknw.com/news/audiovault/index.aspx

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    Hello DearVancouverCondoInfoites,

    Some updates from the trenches here @ Richmond, BC,
    to go with your popcorn and Champaigne :)

    - They converted the Riverport flats project to rentals!
    https://riverportflats.com/

    - The “For Sale” signs cover a large percentage of the front yards on our way to work.

    - Know a a few people who recently bought a bigger house without selling the previous one.

    - Today, I saw the biggest house-in-construction I’ve ever seen . On Finn road, where all the farms and horses are, close to the south Dyke. It was unbelievable:
    Roughly 20,000 square feet, sized like a castle but still in construction so just a collection of 2×4 toothpicks and chinese-glued-wood-shavings panels. Very inappropriate against zombie attacks, if you ask me.

    Regards

    arit

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    Navin R. Johnson Says:
    158

    Talking with co-workers in Calgary the other day. One guy says he has been very thankful that real estate prices ran up so much after he purchased in 2005 because he has been living off the equity. WTF! I saved myself from telling him he was a complete moron. Why the f…. did he buy a home if he never plans on paying it off?

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    Anonymous Says:
    159

    @Urbain: Rennie is on BC Housing’s Board of Directors. I wonder under what situations he recuses himself

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    @Anonymous: For feck’s sake. His last statement was flat in the summer, down in the fall, resumption of price increases next yea.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Hey folks: here is what Rennie said about me back in 2006. My ‘being right’ may arrive a bit later than I expected, but oh Bobby it is happening!

    Thursday, June 15, 2006
    Vance of Vancouver
    I had a chance to read the Vancouver magazine article by Kevin Chong about the Vancouver housing blog scene. Note that the story isn’t available online – you’ll have to buy it, or at least browse through it at Safeway.

    Regular readers will be familiar with the bits that I had to say. More fun is what others had to say about the VHB. Here’s the “impeccably groomed” Rob Chipman:

    Chipman asserts that the arguments advanced in the bubblesphere are ‘very undefined.’ [Bubble-watchers] say, Look, it’s obviously a speculative market in Vancouver because prices have outstripped fundamentals. But you have to ask, What are the fundamentals? And what is affordable? We’re selling a record number of units. You find me somebody who can’t buy a house.”

    Interesting. For me, it’s not about “afford.” It’s about “value.” Don’t see any; not buying.

    What does Bob Rennie have to say about the VHB?

    If the blogger is right [about Woodwards], then 1,000 people are wrong.

    Memo from VHB to Bobbie R: Being right isn’t a democracy. Teenage-level peer pressure may work on the ‘be bold or move to the suburbs’ crowd, but it doesn’t make me want to throw down $600K for a 2BR in the W.

    Finally, let’s leave the last word to Rob Chipman about the popularity of this site:

    “Everyone goes to his blog,” . . . “whether they’re people renting a trailer or people selling a mansion on the west side of Vancouver, it doesn’t matter – they’ll all go there.

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    Waiting to exhale Says:
    162

    Co-worker’s mom bought two units a year ago in a presale that is slated for completion next autumn. She bought 2 two-bedroom 1100 square feet units for around $500k each. One for her and one for her son. At the time they figured they would sell their 20 year old Richmond house for $1 million plus and pay off their brand new “upscale” condos. In the meantime they would rent and move into their new digs when it is completed.

    So they put their house on the market about six months ago and I was getting updates from my co-worker. In the beginning they were showing the house to three or four interested parties during every open house. After about two months they got a low ball offer ($150k under asking) but they rejected it.

    Yesterday, I got another update and I asked how the house selling was going. He told me nobody came by to look for “a couple of weeks”.

    I then asked if they were considering to lower their price. He responded, “Nope, my mom has to get a certain price before she will sell and we are WAITING FOR PRICES TO TURNAROUND.”

    He continued to tell me that the completion date for their new condos was pushed up to early summer of next year; therefore, I asked: “What if you can’t get the price that your mom wants before your new condos are completed?”

    He then gave me a (priceless) blank stare for about three seconds and said. “I don’t know, my mom will figure it out.”

    So it seems there are still people out there that have not seen the light despite all the warnings out there. They turn into ostriches and just hope for the best. I figure by next spring they will start to panick and jr. will end up with at least a $200K mortgage instead of having his new pad all paid off.

    I have been patiently waiting for a bubble popping moment but it seems like we won’t see that for at least a couple more months. I figure it takes at least 12-18 months from price peaks before the average joe realizes that the tide is actually turning and this massive bubble has actually popped.

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    Anonymous Says:
    163

    @VHB: “If the blogger is right [about Woodwards], then 1,000 people are wrong.”

    Instead of Rennie claiming you are wrong he simply states you are a contrarian. It was true. Statements like that are correct but meaningless. A contrarian is always against the herd. As far as Woodwards goes I think places are selling for about what people paid for them in 2006 as presales. Not quite what those buying expected I would guess. It will only get worse from here.

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    Navin R. Johnson Says:
    164

    @Waiting to exhale:

    I got two words for that woman.

    Fu. cked

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    frank Says:
    165

    @VHB:

    You should get that blog going again VHB. Always wondered why you shut it down.

    I suspected someone threatened legal action.. because they felt maligned or maybe someone who didn’t buy and wanted someone to blame.

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    McLovin Says:
    166

    This site is the new VHB!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Global Agenda TV states that there is a ton of inventory, that prices are coming down but its all good because this is Vancouver? Huh? How about some 1ml+ houses coming down in price to get under the wire are pushing the value of everything below them down? How about on average every house has lost between 10&15% in the last while. Thats 100-150 THOUSAND off a 1ml house. Thats a down turn aka price reduction,it doesnt matter if we have a nice ocean and big mountains. How about our individual Cdn debt load of 153%, how about China slowing down,how about cheap oil,how about the US and European melt down, how about the job cuts we are hearing about almost daily??? People the banks are not your friends, realtors on both sides want your money. TV/Newspapers,internet make lot of ca$h from the RE cartel. Beware do your research, what if interest rates go up, way up, like they did before?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    McLovin Says:
    168

    I went for lunch today and I wasn’t scorned by my friends for being a bear.

    The fun is over. I can’t find anyone to argue with anymore. The harsh reality of a very long move down is sinking in. I am sensing big time panic among a lot of people out there.

    Truthfully I thought it was going to be fun but I think it is just going to be sad.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @McLovin: “Truthfully I thought it was going to be fun but I think it is just going to be sad”

    As I’ve mentioned before, there are many things to feel sad about, an unwinding of a speculative bubble doesn’t even make the top 100, and I’m still sad The Police broke up (coming in at my #87th saddest thing).

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @McLovin: Don’t feel sad. I got a collection call for $14.96 from the collection agency that Shaw assigned to my account after I refused to pay their cancellation fee after cancelling and giving them tons of notice.

    The girl on the phone was really embarrassed to be a collection agent. I told her she’s got a good career and an important job to do, separating people from their baser instincts to get into endless debt. She was the reality that was going to break through the fantasy in this town. And that she could have a good career ahead of her because there was going to be a lot of collection work in the future.

    Even she, who spends her day collecting from deadbeats (OK I couldn’t think of a nicer term) couldn’t believe there will be an increase in debtors coming up. Seemed to have no idea why that would be or what could cause it. So don’t be like this 21 year old girl McL. Go back to relishing the end of the debt bubble and hope to hell we don’t all get buried by it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    While all the RE rockstars are having insomnia worrying about their financial future, im having insomnia thinking about all the future opportunities for a home to live in and raise a family.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Crikey Says:
    172

    @McLovin:
    “Truthfully I thought it was going to be fun but I think it is just going to be sad.”

    There are definitely going to be at least a few sob stories and stories about people forced out their homes, just like there were those stories in the U.S.

    But don’t you dare feel sorry for any of them. Not a single one. (And believe me, Global and co. will work overtime trying to make you feel sorry). Nobody put a gun to anybody’s head and forced them to buy, to get greedy and buy into the Vancouver real estate ponzi scheme.

    Nobody forced anybody to submit to Greed and be an accessory to pushing prices higher for everybody else, and pushing so many out of a chance of a decent home in a decent area.

    Will some families be forced to go from owning to renting? Yes, of course. And the media will try hard to make you feel for sorry for them. But don’t you dare feel sorry. In fact, so what if they have to rent? The “sane” who refused to buy into the hype have been renting for ages. And none of the people who end up underwater will be living on the streets because of the crash; if they can afford an overpriced mortgage they will have no trouble with a modest monthly rental fee.

    Will it be “fun” to watch the crash happen? For the most part, no it won’t be fun (with a minor few exceptions regarding aholes I personally know that are already starting to eat crow).

    It won’t be fun. BUT it *IS* be necessary, for the good of us all. It is like watching a tragedy play… you know what has to happen, due to the hero’s tragic flaw. You don’t enjoy watching the tragic hero’s downfall, but you nod your head and say, “Yes, it had to end this way”.

    It has to end this way, it is a good thing for it to end this way, if Vancouver is ever to learn and avoid repeating these mistakes again soon.

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    The year of the dragon turned out to be the year of the cricket. So much for that nonsense people were spewing earlier this year.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Urbain Says:
    174

    @Anonymous: He would have to recuse himself from all decisions, I would think. If he has an ethical bone in his body. I’m not holding out hope.

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    Bo Xilai Says:
    175

    @Waiting to exhale:

    “…WAITING FOR PRICES TO TURNAROUND.”

    It is the truly financially retarded who believe prices will “turnaround” higher despite credit being choked off by the federal government, via shorter CMHC amortizations, Re-fi being reduced from 85% to 80%, HELOCs being reduced to 65% LTV, Downpayment “cashbacks” being banned, immigrant investor program being suspended for 6 months, etc…

    Maybe Santa Claus, Saint Jude, angels and the Fairy Godmother will visit Vancouver and make everything all right again.

    Sheesh, I never get over the stupidly delusional optimism in this city when it comes to real estate.

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    Patiently Waiting Says:
    176

    Alberta sends food aid to the impoverished Okanagan.

    “Groceries have been trucked in from Calgary to help the Kelowna food bank weather an unexpected surge in demand.

    Nearly 11,400 kilograms of non-perishables were delivered this week to the Ellis Street depot, where applications for assistance are up 12 per cent from this time last year.”

    http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/378659–calgary-food-bank-trucks-surplus-stock-to-kelowna-food-bank

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    Boombust Says:
    177

    HAPPY CANADA DAY!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    fixie guy Says:
    178

    142 mac Says: “Be happy. Mr. Rennie is an older man. He’s not equipped to evaluate social media.”

    I’m curious what you consider ‘equipped’? The first discussion forums – Usenet – were established 30 years ago. My first BBS membership was in the early Nineties, before the WWW was opened up for non-educational access. I personally know older men than Rennie who founded social media-based ‘alternative advertising’ ventures.

    If not blogs and discussion forums like this one, where do the crazy bubble ideas now filtering into the MSM originate? He may be many things but I would never mistake Rennie for stupid or unaware of social trends. His success wouldn’t have been possible without mastery of the latter.

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    Anonymous Says:
    179

    @McLovin: “new VHB site”
    then it will be folded soon enough.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Patriotz' No.1 Fan Says:
    180

    Regarding feeling sorry for people who lose their homes, how can you lose something you never actually owned in the first place?

    One more time, for all the mortgage morons out there, you DO NOT own your home unless you paid off every single cent that you owe to the bank.

    I am still perplexed by the concept of people calling it “home ownership” or “yes, I own my home”. The only thing most people own is just a big fat IOU.

    Patriotz’ No.1 Fan

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    Anonymous Says:
    181

    @Patriotz’ No.1 Fan: you are so mentally ill you become your own fan? look what RE has done to armchair economist!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    McLovin Says:
    182

    “McLovin: “new VHB site”
    then it will be folded soon enough”

    Folded like the hundreds of developers currently breaking ground?
    Folded like the Realtards who will have to get a real job?
    Folded like the fly by night construction companies building junk?

    or Folded like the huge number of people who will be trapped in their homes and can’t move when they are 25% underwater?

    We aren’t going anywhere buddy.

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    Groundhog Says:
    183

    Just an observation froma small gathering last night. When I said I’d likely be renting for the next 2-3 years before starting to even look at houses it was not met by the usual response (and we all know what that is!). I was surprised to hear someone say I heard the market’s not very good, maybe next year will be better. Someone else also piped in with the Vancouver’s so wonderful causing prices to be high argument but I think they were in the permanently high plateau camp, whereas I think a couple months ago they would have been in the buy now or be priced out forever camp.

    Nice change anyways, even though they still seemed pretty clueless about what happens when a credit bubble pops, they weren’t trying to argue their usual dogmatic beliefs in RE.

    I personally believe RE prices will decline for at least 3-5 years, and then likely won’t increase significantly again until all those who participated in this bubble are old and irrelevent and will not be able to pass along their knowledge of the risks of RE to potential buyers. But for now, I’ll just say 2 years of decline, I don’t think people could handle the thought of 5 years of price declines and I gave up trying to argue about RE long ago.

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    Anonymous Says:
    184

    @McLovin: you cant go anywhere. you got trapped in your rental home in north van. be gratefull that your landlord has not put their home in the market yet. remember the last time you moved?

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    Anonymous Says:
    185

    from what I hear around me, the new meme is that prices are going through a small trough (for no reason) and will peak again next year. Just like a lost season for harvesters.
    Talking about sales and inventory does not scare people at all: they are still hopeful believers in the VanRE god.
    The only thing that shocks them is the news about the investor immigrant program. This one seems to click and be remembered, and to trigger anxiety.

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    Crikey Says:
    186

    @Patriotz’ No.1 Fan:
    “Regarding feeling sorry for people who lose their homes, how can you lose something you never actually owned in the first place?”

    Agreed, of course. We here all know that, but the MSM will never spin it that way.

    I learned a lot from the behavior of the U.S. MSM and RE associations while the drama played out (and is still playing out) down south. And I have no reason to believe the behavior of the Canadian counterparts will be any different.

    The heart-tugging stories on the MSM usually talked about people “losing their homes”, and seldom cared to set the record straight (ie: these ppl never owned the homes to begin with!).

    Meanwhile, the U.S. real estate associations have not lost a single beat, continuously inviting people to relax and enjoy the Titanic, and ignore all the silly people running around screaming about it sinking (Silly people! If the Titanic were sinking, the people who manage the Titanic would be the first to tell everyone, right?). Nevermind that the U.S. downturn has been much worse than I expect that Canadian bubble pop to ever be — so, it will be comparatively easier for the Canadian real estate associations to continue writing idiotic reports and press releases.

    So what have Bears learned from how things have played out down in the U.S., after their bubble popped? I don’t mind reminding everyone that these people never owned the homes to begin with…until I go blue in the face… but I realize we’re up against an MSM that many people still stupidly listen to. Eventually I hope reality gets through.

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    BigFooter Says:
    187

    Hi,

    I saw the figures for June in Vancouver-West, East, and Richmond. I was wondering how Squamish, gate way to the 2010 Olympics is looking.

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    @#27:

    I believe those % are so misleading. They just compare what people earn in each country. i.e in some countries you earn equivalent of $5 a day. But they do not take it into account that in those countries you can buy a house with about $5000.

    Of course you earn way more than them on the face value but you can not afford a place here but they can in their country.

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    @BigFooter

    How were the sell, list numbers and prices for the places you’ve seen.

    Can you give us a break down?

    Thanks!

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    190

    @Crikey:
    I think there’s a larger point that a lot of people on this forum and elsewhere are missing:

    WHY should anyone lose their home simply because the market price has fallen below what they paid for it? It doesn’t affect their monthly payments, right? And remember the banks will cheerfully renew an insured mortgage even if it’s underwater.

    WHY should anyone even complain if the market price of their house has fallen? It’s still the same house, right? They thought it was worth the purchase price when they bought it, right?

    People don’t lose their homes because the market price has fallen, they lose them because THEY COULDN’T AFFORD THE PRICE THEY PAID IN THE FIRST PLACE.

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    Crikey Says:
    191

    @patriotz:
    “People don’t lose their homes because the market price has fallen, they lose them because THEY COULDN’T AFFORD THE PRICE THEY PAID IN THE FIRST PLACE.”

    I agree with your point. But look at how the MSM has already been framing the most recent CMHC changes. I have lost of how many headlines disingenuously bemoan that families are now being priced out of the market because of these ‘big, bad, changes’, while conveniently not mentioning that the market will have to correct prices downwards.

    What I’m saying is that it is the fringe sob stories that the MSM will grab onto and try to get everybody’s attention with. I think there *will* be people that can no longer afford to live in the same home, even if only a few on the fringes. It may be because they’ve HELOC’D themselves to oblivion and no longer have rising prices to save them. It may be because the bank sobers up and refuses their next mortgage renewal or move to a fixed term. Or maybe they’ve lost and are forced to sell, but are now underwater.

    Related to all this…What happens when the NDP wants to assure that they come into power, and sees a bunch of angry mortgage-holders (and people sympathetic to them, thanks to the MSM) that want some relief from falling prices?

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    Patiently Waiting Says:
    192

    Does anyone here have any special insight into the Kinder Morgan pipeline expansion?

    They’ve been talking like its no big deal and few will be expropriated or have their yard dug-up. But I don’t see how that can happen. The current pipeline cuts through well-populated residential areas, along with industrial/commercial areas. Where are they going to put it that won’t cause a massive uproar?

    http://www.tricitynews.com/news/160904275.html

    There is going to a 150m wide expropriation zone!!!

    What Kinder Morgan has to say:

    As for Stewart’s description of the corridor as a potential expropriation zone, she said only, “We have had longstanding relationships with our landowners and neighbours and will continue to operate the pipeline for many years to come – so it is our intention to do what we’ve always done, treating landowners fairly and equitably.

    “Through studies and our engagement process in the coming year, we will determine a proposed corridor to submit to the NEB for approval. We will try to address individually impacted landowner’s questions and concerns through a comprehensive consultation process.”

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    BigFooter Says:
    193

    @s:

    The sales numbers were posted earlier in this thread. You can go through the other pages and see them. Here is the richmond one for example:

    Inventory Says:
    June 29th, 2012 at 9:46 pm
    Richmond Detached Sales June

    1995 = 112
    1996 = 114
    1997 = 144
    1998 = 105
    1999 = 135
    2000 = 128
    2001 = 160
    2002 = 139
    2003 = 166
    2004 = 147
    2005 = 248
    2006 = 170
    2007 = 198
    2008 = 115
    2009 = 204
    2010 = 139
    2011 = 158
    2012 = 73 **June 28

    RICHMOND SALES AT AN ALL TIME LOW!

    Current score: 77

    I’m wondering if we can see squamish also, as I understand that was one of the slower markets with lots of inventories in some market segments.

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    Guy Smiley Guy Smiley Says:
    194

    @patriotz:
    “People don’t lose their homes because the market price has fallen, they lose them because THEY COULDN’T AFFORD THE PRICE THEY PAID IN THE FIRST PLACE.”

    Or they lose them because there income has been negatively affected by the downturn. From the many statistics posted here and elsewhere in the past few years regarding what percentage of our economy revolves around this farce, that could be a great big number.

    As per the NDP (Crikey), what do you suspect they could do at a provincial level to affect the housing market? I’m not saying it’s impossible, but i can’t think of where they would find the financial wherewithal to staunch the carnage once it starts for real.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    195

    @Crikey:
    “What happens when the NDP wants to assure that they come into power, and sees a bunch of angry mortgage-holders (and people sympathetic to them, thanks to the MSM) that want some relief from falling prices?”

    Relief from what? Remember, falling prices don’t change your monthly payment.

    In any case, thinking that the NDP would give cash handouts to people simply because prices are falling is even move out of touch than thinking that the BC Liberals would. Remember, we’ve got a bust right now in much of BC, and there was a 15% drop when Glen Clark was in power. What handouts have been offered today or then?

    They are smarter than that. Promising such cash handouts would be a complete loser both politically and financially. Don’t think for a second that the vast majority of voters – both renters and not in trouble owners – would stand for it. That’s why such handouts have never been offered in any province by any party.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    196

    @Patiently Waiting:
    “Does anyone here have any special insight into the Kinder Morgan pipeline expansion?”

    No special insight, just facts – the potential expropriation is under Federal jurisdiction and we know well which side the Cons are on when it comes to disputes about energy projects. As the article itself notes.

    Also a fact that the area has an NDP MP who they don’t give a hoot about.

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    Larry’s Average Price report is out!

    Detached:

    Jun-2012  1,061,067   n/a
    May-2012  1,073,311  -1.1%
    Feb-2012  1,235,244  -14.1% (all-time high)
    Jun-2011  1,215,265  -12.7%

    http://www.yattermatters.com/2012/07/vancouver-real-estates-candle/

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    Bo Xilai Says:
    198

    Drove past Onni’s “Evelyn” project in West Vancouver today.

    Anyway, lots of balloons on the signs telling the suckers, I mean, “future home owners” where the parking lot is… Just the sales guy’s series 5 BMW and the receptionist’s Corolla in the parking lot…

    Gotta wonder what’s going through Onni’s pointy headed executives’ brains… Panic? Fear?

    I think Vancouver Real Estate’s “Minsky Moment” is close at hand…

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    condo watcher Says:
    199

    is this something totally new or has it been effect for a while?

    The BC First-Time New Home Buyers’ Bonus is a one-time bonus payment worth up to $10,000 for first-time new home buyers in BC.

    Applicants can receive a cheque of up to $10,000, if they qualify, and the amount of the bonus is not taxable.

    The legislation to enact the BC First-Time New Home Buyers’ Bonus received Royal Assent on May 31, 2012.

    http://www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/individuals/income_taxes/personal_income_tax/tax_credits/fthb_bonus_about.htm#11

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    I just made another graph tracking Avg price over the last 2 years (easier to see the short-term ups and downs than Larry’s 35-year-duration chart.)
    http://s10.postimage.org/712tzpsm1/Avg_Price.png

    Average price is down to December 2010 levels.

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    fixie guy Says:
    201

    194 Guy Smiley Says: “… income has been negatively affected by the downturn. …. that could be a great big number.”

    It will be. Unfortunately

    - it’s inevitable, today or tomorrow it will happen
    - the damage increases the longer its delayed
    - the federal govermnet spent its fiscal ammo pumping it
    - the country was put in this predicament by that federal policy
    - the best option may be to get as far as possible from ground-zero cities

    Just as the influence of this superflous stimulus multiplied spreading through the economy, so will its negative conseqences. The damage the last decade of federal ineptitude will soon cause won’t be forgotten.

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    Anonymous Says:
    202

    @condo watcher:
    A while, the liberals announced it in their last budget.

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    Anonymous Says:
    203

    Long one but long of good points in it:
    Steve Keen presentation on Canada’s debt bubble

    “Below is the talk I gave to the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives on the Debt Bubble and its implications for Canada. I cover my Minskian analysis of the Depression in general, and conclude with data on the Canadian economy. The mortgage acceleration data in particular implies that the Canadian house price bubble–which is not as big as those in Australia, the USA or the UK–is close to being over.”

    http://youtu.be/WbDqkNE24Kc

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    Anonymous Says:
    204

    @VMD:
    Seems like a line is being drawn in the sand at $1,000,000. That’s an important psychological level I was hoping to see broken this month. I guess we’ll just have to wait another month or two. It’s a given now that CMHC has stopped issuing insurance to properties over $1,000,000 but it’s still going to cause a lot of people to notice.

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    New thread:
    Having fun with the June avg price graph
    http://vancouverpeak.com/groups/data-hounds/forum/topic/having-fun-with-the-june-avg-price-graph/

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    Navin R. Johnson Says:
    206

    @Anonymous:

    1 mil. It don’t matter. I think the good stuff happens in the fall when the re-listing frenzy takes hold. This 20,000 list run-up is just an appetizer….right now us bears are working on the huckleberries, with the odd salmon thrown in…..come fall we’ll be dragging foreign campers out of tents to satisfy our insatiable appetites….

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    HAM Solo Says:
    207

    @ patriotz

    I wouldn’t be surprised if, not this year b/c it’s way too early, but if in 2013 or 2014 quite a lot of momentum builds behind mortgage interest deductability as a political platform.

    Not saying that it’s fair, or that the country could afford it, but that’s not the same as saying that a party who implemented it wouldn’t become more popular. Just thinking of the last 30 years of slowly snowballing debt and consistently avoiding confronting obvious problems…that would be the next logical step, perhaps…

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    pricedoutfornow Says:
    208

    I’ve been watching MLS# V921261. It’s been for sale for a few months (recently reduced from $1,250,000.) Who wants to bet how fast it will become $999,999? Sure “prime” area, big lot, but WTF…over a million bucks for 1952 bung? Come on! Mr. Alexander has it right, “insane” doesn’t even start with how ridiculous prices are!

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    McLovin Says:
    209

    Thanks for the graph VMD!

    I wonder what kind of howling and gnashing we will hear from the MSM when the SFH price slips below $1 mil by September?

    If anyone is debating if its over surely you must realize by now. Anyone buying in the next 12 months is an absolute fool.

    Sell now or be priced in for a generation! (I guess its not so catchy)

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    @McLovin: “Anyone buying in the next 12 months is an absolute fool.”

    Someone who bought at a lower price and is now selling and buying another property isn’t necessarily a fool, they just don’t want to rent. Their choice to leave money on the table but their cost base is way lower; why must they get caught up in insane speculation, either on the bull or bear side?

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    McLovin Says:
    211

    Jessie – Fair enough but regardless of their cost base, anything they buy today will be cheaper in 1 yr. ,cheaper in 2 yrs. ,Cheaper in 3 yrs., until it hits bottom.

    They are just throwing money down the drain because they don’t want to rent. That makes no sense to me. The top is in and anyone with half a brain knows it.

    So I repeat, anyone buying in the next 12 months is an absolute fool!

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    Islander Says:
    212

    Larry June’s stats:

    http://www.yattermatters.com/2012/07/vancouver-real-estates-candle/

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    Anonymous Says:
    213

    @Patiently Waiting: ….Nearly 11,400 kilograms of non-perishables were delivered this week to the Ellis Street depot, where applications for assistance are up 12 per cent from this time last year.”…

    Clearly, what they really need is for someone to truck in some HAM.

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    GVREB Says:
    214

    Large Selection of Available Properties Fails to Lure Buyers into Slow Vancouver Real Estate Market
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ON VCI
    VANCOUVER, B.C. –July 1, 2012 – Real estate sales activity in Greater Vancouver continues to sit at lows not seen in over a decade. Daily sales volume in June 2012 fell further to 113 units per sales day from 130 in May, a decrease of 13 per cent. Consistent with the seasonal trend, the pace of new listings has decreased but at a lower rate than the decrease in sales. This resulted in the second lowest sale to list ratios for the month of June since 2001 and well below the historical average for the month of June. Sales have been slowing for 12 months and this has resulted in a near-record inventory level for this time of the year.

    GVREB reports that residential property sales of detached, attached and apartment properties reached 2,366 in June. This total represents a 27 per cent decrease compared to the 3,262 sales in June 2011. Looking back, the sales activities in June 2012 were 2 per cent lower than the previous recent record low sales in 2008 when 2,425 units were sold. On a sale to list basis, June’s ratio of 42% was the second lowest of the previous 12 years.

    The large selection of available properties for sale during the Spring market failed to translate to higher buyer activity. Although increased selection is good for buyers it is not typically a reason to make a purchase especially when prices are higher than their underlying fundamentals. Sales volumes continued to slow in the current month with the level daily sales falling precipitously at the end of June to levels not seen since 2008. As we enter the typically slower summer season, there are several factors that result in a forecast that the market will continue to be weak. In addition to existing negative factors such as a recent reductions in the level of foreign buying activity, global financial uncertainty, macro-level demographic changes and sentiment changes caused by increased negative media coverage, the newly announced changes affecting mortgage lending were more significant than anticipated and will result in a measurable decrease in the availability of funding to buyers at all price levels. Areas which have the highest months of inventory are now seeing measurable decreases in selling prices as motivated sellers make large price concessions to ensure a sale is completed. GVREB also notes that the changes in mortgage lending rules have caused an immediate effect on many potential buyers with reductions in maximum mortgage amounts and increased buyer expectation that prices will fall immediately. Market players noted that many buyers have already abruptly delayed buying decisions given the recent reductions in available mortgage funding.

    New listings for detached, attached and apartment properties in Greater Vancouver totalled 5,670 in June. This is approximately 7 per cent above the 10-year listing average for the month of June. Listings in June 2012 represented a 2 per cent decrease compared to June 2011 when 5,793 properties were listed for sale and a 13 per cent decrease compared to the 6,546 new listings reported in June 2008. Listings are not forecast to be at the rate seen in 2008, the year the financial crisis impacted the Greater Vancouver real estate market as many sellers were earlier to the market this year. Due to the significant number of sellers who were unsuccessful in selling their properties over the past six months, it is expected that the early fall season will see higher than normal listings.

    Greater Vancouver continued to have near seasonal record active listings. At 18,492, the total number of active residential property listings in Greater Vancouver increased 4 per cent compared to May 2012 and 22 per cent compared to June 2011. Total Months of Inventory increased for the fourth straight month and sits at an unseasonably high level of 7.8 months of inventory. However, the larger decrease in single family home sales has resulted in the months of inventory in that market segment exceeding 8.6 months compared to 7.3 months in the attached segment. Expensive single family home markets now have almost one year of inventory.

    The Residential Reference Price for all residential properties in Greater Vancouver over the last 12 months has increased 1.7 per cent to $621,200 in June 2012 from $610,300 in June 2011. The current high inventory levels are expected to continue to put pressure on prices and we forecast that future months will have annual price decreases. This will be the first annual price decreases seen in the Greater Vancouver market since 2009.

    Sales of detached properties in June 2012 slowed to 924 units, a decrease of 37 per cent from the 1,471 detached sales recorded in June 2011, and a 19 per cent decrease from the 1,139 units sold in June 2010. Looking back, the number of detached single family homes selling in June 2012 was similar to the 918 units sold in June 2008, at the time our market started to last show significant weakness. The reference price for detached properties increased 3.2 per cent from June 2011 to $961,000 but fell from $967,500 in the previous month. Price reductions were much larger towards the end of June and thus future months should see lower prices.

    Sales of apartment properties reached 1,026 in June 2012, a 19 per cent decrease compared to the 1,266 sales in June 2011, and a decrease of 16 per cent compared to the 1,228 sales in June 2010. The reference price of an apartment property was equal to the level at the end of June 2011 at $377,000 and shows significant risks of further weakness.

    Attached property sales in June 2012 totalled 415, a 20 per cent decrease compared to the 525 sales in June 2011, and a 28 per cent decrease from the 575 attached properties sold in June 2010. The reference price of an attached unit decreased 0.1 per cent from June 2011 to $468,000.

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    Anonymous Says:
    215

    @GVREB:

    Looks like we are tracking 2008. Nice.

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    Crikey Says:
    216

    @Guy Smiley:
    “what do you suspect they could do at a provincial level to affect the housing market?”
    The NDP and Liberals have both proven themselves more than capable of doing stupid things in the past. They are all very creative that way.

    Apart from incentives like “BC First-Time New Home Buyers’ Bonus” and such, I cannot tell the future, but I am wary of all politicians hungry for votes.

    Recently in Ontario, government has been willing to seriously consider an argument from the real estate community that property transfer taxes be abolished outright. They haven’t acted on this idea, but they are currently listening closely.

    For chrissakes, why would Ontario need to make buying easier in a bubble market? And what new source of revenue would replace all the property tax transfer money?

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    217

    @Crikey:
    “Recently in Ontario, government has been willing to seriously consider an argument from the real estate community that property transfer taxes be abolished outright.”

    This is nonsense. There is no way that Ontario can reduce taxes on anything. They have a terrible fiscal problem. Remember this is a government that brought in the HST – including on real estate – and made it stick.

    There is no stimulus to the RE market that any provincial government will attempt other than narrowly targeted measures such as BC’s current grant for buyers of new properties. They can’t afford anything else.

    Even the province that can afford something else, Alberta, where prices are already down >10%, has done nothing.

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    Devore Says:
    218

    @Best place on meth:

    Rennie is coming unglued because his cozy relationship with the ultra-corrupt BC Liberals is coming to an end next spring, and with it goes all the perks and preferential treatment he’s enjoyed for the past 10 years.

    Bob Rennie? He’s more than cozy, he’s at the trough:

    http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2012/04/27/judy-rogers-bob-rennie-appointed-to-bc-housing-board/

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    [...] — Update: In related news, Richmond June sales at an all-time low. This from ‘Inventory’ at VCI 29 Jun 2012 9:46pm: [...]

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    Ralph Cramdown Says:
    220

    @HAM Solo: “I wouldn’t be surprised if, not this year b/c it’s way too early, but if in 2013 or 2014 quite a lot of momentum builds behind mortgage interest deductability as a political platform.”

    Well, here’s a back-of-the-envelope calculation: Statscan says total outstanding residential mortgage balance in 2011 was $1,072,262MM. At 3.5%, that’s $37.5 billion/yr in residential mortgage interest. At a 20% tax rate, that’s $7.5 billion/yr in lost revenue, sure to go up with gains in housing stock values and interest rates, and that’s only federal, assuming no provincial deduction. That’s an amount about comparable to the GST cuts, which tipped the budget into continuing structural deficit. Who’s going to campaign for THAT? The left (benefits go disproportionately to the wealthy)? The right (still have structural deficits from last hare-brained scheme)?

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    [...] a free RE-promotion document available at corner dispensers throughout the city. [hat-tip RaggedyRenter at VCI 29 Jun 2012 11:32pm. See that VCI thread for discussion.] [...]

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    Anonymous Says:
    222

    RE: Government Tax breaks for real estate.

    I think the part you guys (or gals) missed is government policy now is to deflate housing not inflate it. The conservatives used housing to stimulate the economy to get elected. Now they are reversing that stimulus because they know it will blow up if they don’t. There is no better time to do it with a majority and the Liberals and NDP in shambles. It would be pointless to make the changes to amortizations and CMHC and then counter with giving tax breaks. The provinces do not have the funds to make any difference in housing.

    Also note once housing starts going down there will be nothing that can stop it since rates are already at all time lows and people are already maxed out on debt. We have already seen this played out in the US, Spain and Japan. It will not be different here. The conservatives know it must correct and have decided to make it happen now. Of course they will blame the correction on some outside influence but it is part of their plan to reduce (or limit) consumer debt load and CMHC exposure to it.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    223

    @Anonymous:
    “I think the part you guys (or gals) missed is government policy now is to deflate housing not inflate it.”

    Certainly not at the BC provincial level, as we can see from the new property purchase credit introduced just months ago.

    No surprise, as never before in Canada have we seen a provincial economy and provincial government so beholden to the RE industry.

    But this and any other provincial measure will be ineffectual in supporting prices. What matters is availability of credit.

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    Anonymous Says:
    224

    @patriotz: “Certainly not at the BC provincial level, as we can see from the new property purchase credit introduced just months ago.”

    That was nothing more than a olive branch given to the real estate developers to help get them onside for the next election. Real estate developers have traditionally been big Liberal supporters but the HST really blind sided them and caused a big riff. Programs like this will have little to no impact on the market. It may cause a few first time buyers to buy a new condo over a used condo but that’s it. I doubt it will draw new people in to the market. It will however help the Liberals with campaign contributions and support from the developers in the coming election.

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    [...] “My good friend’s wife is realtor on the North Shore. She was about to close on condo purchase (she’s the buyer’s agent). Two things happened – – amount the buyer will qualify is now lower, so not sure if they can afford same place – and – the buyer said they should really wait as the market will now fall so things will get cheaper. That’s one grass-roots feedback.” – ZRH2YVR at VCI 28 Jun 2012 7:49am [...]

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    [...] “My good friend’s wife is realtor on the North Shore. She was about to close on condo purchase (she’s the buyer’s agent). Two things happened – – amount the buyer will qualify is now lower, so not sure if they can afford same place – and – the buyer said they should really wait as the market will now fall so things will get cheaper. That’s one grass-roots feedback.” – ZRH2YVR at VCI 28 Jun 2012 7:49am [...]

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    [...] “Co-worker’s mom bought two units a year ago in a presale that is slated for completion next autumn. She bought 2 two-bedroom 1100 square feet units for around $500k each. One for her and one for her son. At the time they figured they would sell their 20 year old Richmond house for $1 million plus and pay off their brand new “upscale” condos. In the meantime they would rent and move into their new digs when it is completed. So they put their house on the market about six months ago and I was getting updates from my co-worker. In the beginning they were showing the house to three or four interested parties during every open house. After about two months they got a low-ball offer ($150k under asking) but they rejected it. Yesterday, I got another update and I asked how the house selling was going. He told me nobody came by to look for “a couple of weeks”. I then asked if they were considering to lower their price. He responded, “Nope, my mom has to get a certain price before she will sell and we are WAITING FOR PRICES TO TURNAROUND.” He continued to tell me that the completion date for their new condos was pushed up to early summer of next year; therefore, I asked: “What if you can’t get the price that your mom wants before your new condos are completed?” He then gave me a (priceless) blank stare for about three seconds and said. “I don’t know, my mom will figure it out.” So it seems there are still people out there that have not seen the light despite all the warnings out there. They turn into ostriches and just hope for the best. I figure by next spring they will start to panic and jr. will end up with at least a $200K mortgage instead of having his new pad all paid off. I have been patiently waiting for a bubble popping moment but it seems like we won’t see that for at least a couple more months. I figure it takes at least 12-18 months from price peaks before the average joe realizes that the tide is actually turning and this massive bubble has actually popped.” – Waiting to exhale, at VCI 30 Jun 2012 7:32pm [...]

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    [...] “Talked to an old friend in Burnaby today. About a year ago someone bought the house next door and spent several months doing a total reno. Then the house went on sale for months with no takers. Then it went off the market. Then it went on sale again. And now they are tearing it down. No attempt to salvage anything. Remember in decades past you could drive around the city and go to the demo sales where they spent a week or two selling off the fixtures and stuff first. This is wholesale destruction of wealth. Question is who took or will take the hit – the previous owner, the builders, or the next owner, or some combination of the above. It’s doesn’t get any crazier than this.” – patriotz at VCI 29 Jun 2012 1:01pm [...]

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    [...] “The evidence of reduced dicretionary spending is starting to mount; last weekend wife’s running-shoe store had eviction notice; going to island tonight and BC Ferries saying that despite recent trial price cuts traffic still at 21 year lows. So has something changed on the island that people don’t go anymore, was the weather worse than last year? No, they are spending everything on re and food presumably.” – market stats at VCI 29 Jun 2012 8:56am [...]

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    [...] “Not that this has much to do about anything … but I could not help but notice that the new Rush tour is not performing in Vancouver this year. I guess they are too. busy playing in world class cities like Columbus, Buffalo, San Jose and many other important hubs around North America and couldn’t squeeze in a stopover.” – condo paradise at VCI 29 Jun 2012 12:53pm [...]

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    [...] “I went for lunch today and I wasn’t scorned by my friends for being a bear. The fun is over. I can’t find anyone to argue with anymore. The harsh reality of a very long move down is sinking in. I am sensing big time panic among a lot of people out there. Truthfully I thought it was going to be fun but I think it is just going to be sad.” – McLovin at VCI 30 Jun 2012 9:46pm [...]

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    [...] to Vancouver. But my family will lay on the pressure as prices decrease. Could get dicey.” – Patiently Waiting at VCI 29 Jun 2012 8:32pm Share: This entry was posted in 14. Social Effects of the Boom and tagged Anecdotes, British [...]

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